00:00I feel like one of the, listen, let's be clear here.
00:03The Browns-Jacks game in every publication,
00:09every podcast that I'm seeing is getting the least amount of time in week one.
00:14The NFL Daily podcast, it was like two minutes at the end of the podcast.
00:18Ross Tucker, there was a whole chapter.
00:20It looked like a five-minute chapter.
00:22That's what five minutes looked like if you zoom in on it.
00:24And it was like 30 seconds.
00:26I mean, I think it is the largest spread of week one
00:29and if it's not the largest, it's got to be the second.
00:31I thought it was the second largest.
00:32There was somebody who had a bigger line, I thought.
00:35The point is that sometimes, like people brought up earlier today,
00:39they were talking about how week one is such a mystery
00:41and how week one you get all sorts of wacky results.
00:44And last year, the Patriots and the Raiders,
00:46the Raiders actually beat the Patriots.
00:48And it's like, yeah, go look at that spread, though.
00:50That was a three-point spread.
00:51Think about it.
00:52The Raiders and the Patriots last year, week one was three points.
00:54Most books don't know what to do with the team
00:57when the season is getting ready to go.
00:58And the idea that you'd have it at eight and a half
01:02means they have a pretty strong feeling about how this is going to go.
01:05I mean, it started at seven and a half, and I just think the money –
01:08It started at seven.
01:08I think the money has pushed it to –
01:10because I don't think anyone's betting on the Browns.
01:12I think the money is pushing it to Jacksonville.
01:14Yeah, they're trying to –
01:15well, they're trying to bait the public into betting on the Browns.
01:17Consider me baiting.
01:18No, the betting public is not biting right now.
01:21Maybe you're going to bite, but the betting public isn't biting right now.
01:25This baited guy will bite.
01:26That's why it keeps going up, and they keep giving you more points
01:28if you want to bet on your Brownies.
01:29If I was a Browns fan and you're thinking about betting on this game,
01:32it's very reasonable to wait until Sunday at like 12.55
01:35before you go and place any bets.
01:37But you and I have talked about and kind of tracked the narratives on this game
01:40or the narratives about the Browns,
01:43and I think it's really been interesting here.
01:45In the last week, I've heard more Browns defensive concerns
01:50than I did the entire offseason.
01:53I mean, even I posted a clip of you and I doing the Jared vs. Bill's potential.
02:00Like, what would you rather have taken for Miles Garrett?
02:03Yeah.
02:03And the amount of – I was blown away
02:05because I have not heard anyone have Jared vs. doubt.
02:08And the first three comments on my Nick talk,
02:12at Nick Wilson says, were,
02:14oh, I don't think Jared vs. is that good.
02:16Oh, I'd rather with three first because I think Jared vs. is overrated.
02:20And I do think this is an emerging thing.
02:23Like, I think –
02:25They've always worried about his sack production
02:27and whether or not it's going to be the greatest thing you've ever seen.
02:30I would argue that I focus more on his pressures and his quick hits,
02:35and that's where he tends to shine.
02:36If you're focusing just on the sacks, you're not going to get the full picture.
02:38But I just think, like, the doubters about the Browns defense –
02:42and I did hear this after I called in,
02:44about an hour and a half after I called in,
02:46they waited to have their response to me
02:48about an hour and a half after I called in the morning, boys,
02:51of the idea of, well, but what if the defense takes a step back?
02:55And it's just interesting.
02:56Again, I'm not saying that Jared vs. is the player that Miles Garrett is,
02:59and you know how much I loved Jim Schwartz,
03:01how furious I was that they let Jim Schwartz –
03:04that they bungled the Jim Schwartz side of this.
03:06Sure.
03:06And I also don't buy 100% that old Rudy there
03:10isn't going to try and put his own spin on the defense.
03:12That's what coaches do in the NFL.
03:14They want to make it there so they can take the credit for it.
03:16It makes sense that he's going to make some changes on this defense.
03:19But this idea that the only reason this defense had success
03:23was Miles Garrett and Jim Schwartz is wildly wrong.
03:27And I get national people don't really maybe pay as much attention
03:30to Carson Swessinger and Denzel Ward, Grant Delpit with the breakout.
03:34I mean, they know.
03:35They know who that are.
03:36The Browns have pro bowlers at three levels of the defense.
03:39Like, there's an understanding, I think, that exists there.
03:40It's just – I think the difference here, Nick, is that I think the expectation,
03:44if you think they're going to be – last year they were number five
03:46in defensive EPA, I think people are saying that's not –
03:49that's the part that's not going to happen again.
03:52They're not going to be top five in defensive EPA.
03:54But if you're around, I don't know, 9, 10, 11, 12,
03:57that's not the biggest drop-off and that's not the biggest worry.
04:00I just think – I just think the Miles Garrett discourse –
04:03and Miles, by the way, is getting an incredible glow-up.
04:05Well, he's got to account for something.
04:06I mean, he is just – he just recently was named the number one player in the NFL.
04:10He does.
04:11But, again, they replaced him with another guy who, again,
04:15if you look at QB hits and if you look at pressures,
04:18is also a top-10 edge rusher.
04:21And I understand there is a gap between Miles and Jared Verse,
04:26but Jared's also still an ascending player.
04:29So that is a gap that even though I don't think Jared Verse overcomes it,
04:32he can close that gap significantly going into year three.
04:36And so, listen, if you want to say there's too many ifs on offense,
04:40I get it 100%.
04:42I get that I'm saying – to me, it's all about the offensive line.
04:46If the offensive line comes out and is gelled or is close to gelling early,
04:51I think that's going to be a huge head start on having a functional offense.
04:55But I'm saying the ifs at every level on the offense,
04:59and that's where I am being a little Pollyanna.
05:03I'm comparing it to last year's offense, which is non-functional, but I get that.
05:06The defense, I just – again, I feel like it's just, well,
05:11Miles Garrett and Jim Schwartz left town, so did the Browns' defensive relevance.
05:14And I just think that's – I think people have gone too far on it after hearing –
05:18and including our guy Ross Tucker on his podcast.
05:20Yeah, I mean, if that's the case, then, yeah,
05:22I'd suggest people went a little bit too far.
05:24But I've had part of my feelings about this season baked into that idea
05:28that they're just not going to be a top-five defensive team next year.
05:31That's just not going to happen.
05:32But should they live in the top-ten area?
05:35Yeah, they should.
05:35Now, what did Ross say?
05:37Oh, basically, he just thinks they are going to fall out of the top-ten.
05:40Yeah, I mean, and again, how far are we talking here as well
05:44as the other components to this?
05:45Because I can't find too many people that think they're just going to be –
05:47they're going to be a bad defense.
05:49I think most people believe it's going to be the –
05:51the calling card of this Browns team is still going to have to be
05:53the defensive side of the ball.
05:54There still is, again, talent at every level of that defense.
05:57So you're ready for what I threw out there at Nick Wilson says
05:59on Twitter earlier today?
06:01Sure, let's hear it.
06:01Because I do think – it's still a little more skewed than I thought it would be,
06:05but I think this is an interesting question to ask.
06:08So what's more likely for the Browns in 2026?
06:10The defense falls out of the top ten, or the offense leaps out of the bottom ten?
06:16And mind you, it's not hard to not be a bottom ten offense in the NFL.
06:23Well, you can make an argument that the Browns already last year
06:26were outside of the top ten.
06:27Scoring defense, they were, I think, 12th or 13th in the NFL.
06:30So are we talking EPA?
06:32Are we talking – and what measurement are we talking?
06:34Just the broad defensive power rankings when this is all said and done?
06:38What's your favorite measurement?
06:41You really want to know?
06:42I do.
06:43You really want to know?
06:44Say the end scene.
06:45Say what?
06:46What?
06:46Oh, come on.
06:48You're not going to out-freak this freak, okay?
06:51So what's your favorite measurement?
06:53No, no, no.
06:54EPA?
06:55I guess let's do EPA.
06:57So when I bring up the most in talking positively about the Browns' defense,
06:59I guess we have to go – so is that the – are we doing top ten defensive EPA
07:03next year?
07:04I think as much as I don't like EPA when it comes to the offensive side of the
07:06ball, I think defensively for this conversation, I think it more than applies.
07:10And really, it's individual stuff with EPA, but we don't have to go down that road.
07:13But I feel like them existing in the top ten, that there's a – yeah, I don't think that
07:19– that's not the expectation I even have for them.
07:21So it's not even like, will the offense get to be out of the top ten, or will the defense
07:24fall out of the top ten?
07:25My expectation is for the defense to already be 10-15 in defensive EPA when it's all said
07:30and done.
07:31216-474-0092.
07:33That's also, by the way, not a wild insult to the defense.
07:35If you're a top ten defense EPA, that's still an impressive thing.
07:38I feel wildly insulted.
07:39I don't know.
07:39I don't know why you're looking at it in that sort of way.
07:41If you have a – even a middle-of-the-road defense is still a very formidable defense
07:45and one that you can do a lot with.
07:47What about scoring defense?
07:49Scoring defense, again, can be different because, as evidenced by last year –
07:53I want to see if I can change your result here.
07:54That's what I'm saying.
07:56Scoring defense, scoring offense.
07:58What's more likely?
07:59The Browns fall out of the top ten of scoring defenses, or the Browns offense –
08:03They already were outside of the top ten in scoring defenses last year.
08:05That's why I'm saying they're getting back to the top ten.
08:11I don't – I don't get it.
08:12I don't get it.
08:13Am I being difficult?
08:15I'm being difficult.
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