00:00I think I've heard people refer to AJ Ross's report on Sunday, but quite frankly, I didn't
00:06really hear any of it.
00:07I've had the same kind of approach that Ken did, outside of immediately assuming the worst
00:13in it, which was good radio this morning.
00:16But I had heard AJ had a report on Shador.
00:18I thought everybody was just referring to Shador's weird interview before the game,
00:22which we've also completely glossed over.
00:24We haven't done anything on that.
00:26How weird that was.
00:27But no, no, no.
00:28She was talking about a story that Todd Munkin relayed to her about getting Shador ready
00:33for this game.
00:34This one, courtesy of CBS from this last Sunday.
00:38Well, Andrew, it was interesting talking to Todd Munkin yesterday in that he said Shador
00:42Sanders, of course, has a ton of confidence.
00:44He has an aura about him, and he is not someone to mince words as far as what he likes
00:48and
00:48doesn't like when it comes to plays.
00:50And Munkin also was laughing when he said he asked Shador, you know, what do you want to
00:54go through with this opening script?
00:56And Shador was actually suggesting plays they didn't have in her playbook.
00:58He was like, no, no, no.
00:59Some of the plays that we like, that we already have in our system, what do you like?
01:03And that's the type of guy Shador is, guys.
01:04So this, the real reason this came up is that then Colin Coward used that sound or used that
01:10idea there to say he's out on Shador.
01:13And you know that, like, I have had some concerns about Shador's maturity, not because I have
01:21ever seen it, but because it's the one thing we can't stop hearing it from the NFL.
01:26And Shador is two years into the NFL, and he has had more than copious amounts of time to knock
01:32this down.
01:33There were things that have not been fully reported yet, but from Kevin Stefanski's time
01:37with the Browns last year, that Kevin had concerns about Shador's maturity and how a lack of
01:44seriousness, a playfulness.
01:46And that kind of is then ascribed to his personal work there.
01:51Well, and Colin, by the way, Colin is the, I mean, one of his more famous takes in life
01:56is, you know, front, backwards hat guy, can't be a successful quarterback.
02:00Like, his, your presentation matters a lot to Colin Coward.
02:03Which I remain, I remain to say is still one of the dumber takes I've ever heard.
02:08Well, you're a backwards hat guy, so you're of course going to take offense to that.
02:11And clearly, I was one or two practices away from being the right-handed Jared Lorenzen, and
02:17everybody knows it, despite the fact I can't throw a ball very far.
02:20However, uh, this is then led to these big conversations.
02:23I, when I heard the AJ Ross sound, like a lot of people, I didn't automatically think
02:28it's the biggest deal.
02:29I just thought, you know, if I came into the NFL knowing, Hey, I, I went from a, maybe a
02:38first rounder, second round, a third rounder to being a fifth rounder and teams passed
02:42on me upwards of five and six times.
02:44And the knock on me was maturity.
02:46It was mentality.
02:48It was studying.
02:50I would do everything in my power to clean up that narrative as quickly as humanly possible,
02:56because the truth almost doesn't matter in the NFL.
02:59The perception, because it is a perception-based league and it's such a, a knitting circle of
03:05a bunch of nudniks who just repeat and regurgitate the same thing until presented with new information.
03:11I would have a sense of urgency of shooting down that, that narrative against me.
03:18And one of the flaws with the Deion Sanders-esque approach, which is, well, it's the media that's
03:24out to get me and never, never allowing anything within your, to permeate and to register as
03:31a potential concern.
03:32One of the flaws on that is you don't address the real concerns that people have about you
03:38around the league.
03:39It's not a Nick perception.
03:40It's not a Jonathan perception.
03:42It's an NFL perception that you don't take this very seriously and that you're not a serious
03:47human being.
03:48That, that's a problem because that, that's not, that affected you, you getting your first
03:52job.
03:53It'll damn sure, uh, it'll damn sure affect you getting your second job.
03:58And I think that's, what's interesting that two years in Shador is still more on the, ah,
04:03the media is the problem and everybody's out to get me instead of, Hey, this is how people
04:08around football think of, but that's, that's more to the first report that she had though.
04:11That's a, that's a, that's the thing before the game.
04:14That is more anything that I like when I, when I, when I heard this, the thing we're actually
04:17talking about and I, I don't know, I, I mean, you've heard me over the past week.
04:21There's been multiple times where I've, I've torn Shador down or ripped his game or done
04:25whatever I need to do.
04:26Um, but like I, this just, this kind of felt like an interaction that went not even sideways
04:31was just kind of like Munkin is open to the idea that it's, he's going to, he's going
04:36to build things around the quarterback.
04:37That's the quarterback.
04:38And he's going to be, he's going to listen to ideas.
04:39And it's kind of felt, I just kind of felt like an in passing moment, not necessarily the
04:43biggest deal.
04:44Yeah.
04:44I definitely don't think it's a big deal.
04:46It's like a symptom of the greater conversation we've had.
04:50Well, I think the first thing is more towards that.
04:52The first thing, like the, the, what happened in the pregame, I think is exactly to what
04:56you're talking about.
04:56Well, but here's the thing.
04:57Cause I think people have put a lot into how, you know, it was kind of a joking thing that
05:02AJ relays there.
05:04And I thought she did a great job of telling the story, by the way, I've really enjoyed
05:07her sideline reports.
05:08I think AJ is massively underrated to this point, but NFL coaches don't say this stuff.
05:18And I know Todd Munkin likes his witty isms and his little stories and everything, but
05:23Todd Munkin will never come out.
05:25It's, it's apparent.
05:26Like if you think this is intentional.
05:28Yeah.
05:28Yeah, I do.
05:29Whether it's, whether it's intended to be a serious wake up call or whatever, Todd Munkin
05:34understands the narrative about Shador Sanders around the NFL.
05:38I, he understands that when you say something about Shador, it gets blasted into the ether
05:43beyond, I, I'm not trying to say that he has nefarious intentions here, but do I think
05:49that, do I think that if, if Todd Munkin feels like Shador is a little unserious, a little
05:54immature, however you want to paint it, do I think that frustrates Todd Munkin?
05:58I guarantee it does one because Todd's old school and two, because I think Todd sees in
06:03Shador, what I see in Shador and what you see in Shador.
06:06That's an NFL quarterback from a physical perspective.
06:09He does a lot of things that you need.
06:11There's no excuse for Shador to not have a 10 year career, even if it's just as a backup.
06:18He has some innate things that you can't coach, but if the thing that you need from him, which
06:25is a seriousness or a dedication, whatever, whatever the actual thing is that nobody actually
06:30will say until the guy's out of the league, because the league is so chicken bleep about
06:35talking guys behind their back anonymously and won't just, won't just put it out there
06:40on blast, whatever they actually think Shador's problem is.
06:44So we get to kind of pick around whatever the real narrative about him is, because nobody
06:50will say it into a microphone with her, but this is how it happens.
06:53Well, I think there's a lot of things that the little, the little nuggets is how you find
06:58out.
06:58I think the last week, there's a lot of examples of what you're talking about.
07:01And there's a lot of things we can point to.
07:02I just don't think this was one of those examples again, even like the pregame stuff
07:06I thought was not great.
07:07I thought all last week, some of the stuff he did in front of the microphone wasn't great
07:10was the wrong message.
07:11I, I just don't know that even in the story being relayed and how Munkin talked about it
07:16today, I think kind of stressed this as well, but it was Munkin's a very open coach when
07:21it comes to ideas and trying to fit towards what the player is.
07:24He asked Shador Sanders point blank, something about what plays he liked.
07:28Shador just told him a couple of plays that he liked.
07:30And he was like, I meant more, more plays that we run, not just plays that you specifically
07:34like.
07:34And I, I really think it doesn't go further than that.
07:37The only thing I would say is, what am I, what am I missing here?
07:39I feel like I'm missing something.
07:40Shador doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.
07:42That's what you're missing.
07:43But I don't know what benefit of the doubt even needs to be done there.
07:45Is it the idea that he, go ahead, tell me.
07:48I really don't know.
07:48If this points in the direction of every negative thing, this negative narrative about him,
07:54about a lack of seriousness, goofiness, whatever you want to call it, this is just
07:58another instance.
07:59Oh, so you think he was just like, like mocking it or joking off towards it?
08:01No, no.
08:02What I'm talking about is the reason why it matters is because this feeds into the perception
08:06about Shador.
08:07You're correct to say, you and I are simpatico, by the way.
08:10You and I are simpatico on the other stuff is what I'm trying to say.
08:15Okay.
08:16On how he conducted himself in the press last week.
08:19Right.
08:19The weird other thing with AJ, the interview with AJ.
08:22Yeah.
08:22But this thing will matter to people around the NFL.
08:25That's why it actually does matter.
08:26I'm trying to figure out, again, what part will.
08:28Like if Munkin has said to himself, and basically told everybody under the sun that will listen,
08:33I coached to the player.
08:35That's been his big thing.
08:36I coached the player.
08:36I coached who the player is.
08:37He asked the player, point blank, what plays do you like?
08:41What do you like?
08:41Shador says, I like these plays.
08:44And Munkin is like, well, we don't run those plays.
08:46Pick one of the plays we like.
08:48I just don't know how that showcases immaturity.
08:49What am I missing?
08:50Let's go ahead and play Todd Munkin today on Shador asking for plays and the story blowing up.
08:57It's hilarious that it's gone this far.
09:00Shador, what do you like?
09:02Well, I like this, this, and this.
09:03Yeah, I know.
09:04But how about we talk about like, you know, what we run.
09:07You know what I'm saying?
09:08It was fun.
09:09It was him and I together.
09:10It might have been in the hallway.
09:12It wasn't a sit down.
09:13It was a normal day to day, you know, where it's the same way with coaches.
09:18Coaches have ideas as we're game planning.
09:20Players have ideas, right?
09:22We just talked about it after the game.
09:23What were the ideas after the game?
09:25Well, maybe we ought to go fast.
09:26Maybe we ought to throw it every down.
09:27That's just the nature of it.
09:28I get a big kick out of it because it's really, it was really just a normal day to day
09:32of what
09:33a quarterback likes.
09:34It should be important what a quarterback likes and what he doesn't like.
09:36And there's some things we do that players don't like and they'd rather do something
09:39else.
09:40That's, that's, that's normal.
09:41There's coaches.
09:42That's part.
09:42I didn't see it as any big deal.
09:44It really isn't a big deal.
09:45So I, I tend to think that this is a much smaller deal than it's been made out to be.
09:52I'm only concerned about this exact same story.
09:56Todd's intentions are not feeding the same narrative that has been put out about Shador,
10:01a guy who's had two years to shoot down the narrative on him.
10:04But I always try and, when I hear somebody, especially publicly speaking, and I hear Todd,
10:10I always try and think, what motivation do they have to shoot this down?
10:14If you intended it, if you intended it to be a backyard fire, a campfire, and it, and
10:20it grew into a seven alarm fire, I could understand Todd being a guy wanting to tamp this down.
10:25And that's how that reads it to me.
10:26Like, I think, I think Munkin thought that this was innocuous and this was not such a big
10:29deal.
10:29And then the report happened and then he just, maybe it's a miscalculation on his part and
10:33how that maybe, I don't know, I just, I saw his side of this.
10:37Todd, that is.
10:37I saw the idea of like telling AJ Ross a behind the scenes story about kind of like a fun
10:42little
10:42back and forth that they had, not really thinking it was anything.
10:45And then it just kind of getting further away from him.
10:47That's all.
10:48Do you think he would have admitted it if he meant to put this out there to hurt Shador?
10:51Because I don't.
10:53That would be the, that would be the immediate rebuttal to what you're saying.
10:56I, I, that makes Munkin seem way more vengeance than I ever think of Munkin.
10:59I don't know that it's, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't look at him as a very
11:02vengeance, uh, human or very, even, even just kind of, that's the more hurtful than
11:07anything towards Shador.
11:08And I don't, I don't view that either.
11:10I, I just think, uh, people do things for a lot of reasons and NFL coaches, when they
11:15speak into a microphone, you should be skeptical of what they had to say, especially when it's
11:20a story that's gotten out of hand.
11:21But this feels more to me like the inexperienced side of Munkin and being a head coach than it
11:24is anything.
11:25Not understanding what stories matter, not understanding what stories are going to blow up
11:28on him, not understanding really what the repercussions of sometimes when he tells someone
11:32like AJ Ross, what's going to happen with that.
11:34And that's, that's a, that's probably just a learning lesson more than it is anything
11:37else.
11:38I think Todd, this seems to happen with Todd.
11:40I think it Todd at 60.
11:41I think he's way more savvy than people want to give him credit for.
11:46I like, I think there's this seems, I mean, that seems very vengeful.
11:49I know the better word for it.
11:50I can understand if he looks at this and go, I'm going to tell this story because the guy
11:55was a goober and it annoyed me and I'm going to put this out there as a wake-up call,
12:00as
12:00a, Shador cares very much about what is said about him.
12:03That is apparent from how he treated the media a week ago.
12:06Definitely, yeah.
12:07We're going to put this out there in a playful way.
12:10But yeah, this is, hey, Shador, here's more of what people think about you.
12:16As a way to kind of, again, I don't want to say motivate, but as some sort of a teachable
12:21moment for him, yeah.
12:22Yeah, I don't think it has to be the biggest thing in the world to say that Todd put it
12:25out there for a point.
12:27Beyond just, I want to do my Andy from Mayberry shtick.
12:30I don't know.
12:31That seems, it seems very hurtful if that was the case by Munkin.
12:34It's the NFL.
12:34Like, guys.
12:35What is he, what is he gained by that?
12:36What is he trying to gain outside of just making this.
12:38He's trying to get Shador to take things more seriously and get his head out of his ass.
12:42Sorry, that sounded very heavy handed.
12:44I didn't mean it that way.
12:45But if he thinks, if he thinks Shador is not taking the narrative about him not being a
12:49serious football player seriously enough, I can see him using that.
12:54But I don't necessarily take this as him not being a serious football player.
12:56I think he just misunderstood what he could and could not tell Munkin in that moment.
13:00Like, at the end of the day, what is he trying to tell Munkin?
13:02He's trying to tell him plays that he thinks would work and would help out the team.
13:05That's not a matter of not taking it serious.
13:07That's just a matter of what Munkin is receptive to.
13:10Which, by the way, in the past, Munkin has told us repeatedly that he's open to ideas
13:14from players and he likes to morph games into what the players do best.
13:18I think we're somewhere between, I don't think this is a big deal.
13:21I also don't think it was an accident the story got out there.
13:25I don't think Todd Munkin is Machiavellian in the way he's doing this, but I think it
13:29is out there for a purpose.
13:31And I think it is, like, I really hope that, because I fear that every time Shador hears
13:37something that is critical about him, he defaults to the Dion line of, oh, you just
13:41don't like me, and I'm a Sanders, and my name's, I got it worse than anyone else, which isn't
13:47not entirely true at all, by the way.
13:49You get a lot of coverage, and with that comes a lot of criticism, but you invite the coverage
13:54in because it's good for your brand and it's made you a lot of money.
13:57I think we had enough examples over the previous week of him stepping in it.
14:00I just don't think this is one of them.
14:01No, but again, I think it is, there is a narrative out there.
14:05You've had two years to shoot it down, and it is apparent in most NFL circles, the narrative
14:11on Shador two years in is the same narrative it was two years ago, and that concerns me
14:18as somebody that wants to see this kid play for 10 years, that does concern me.
14:22I get that, but that exists prior to this whole, whatever this was with Munkin.
14:25He did enough in the past week and with the AJ Ross pregame interview to have that narrative
14:30persist and to have the idea be like, hey, Shador, you probably need to button up and get
14:34your whole self figured out.
14:35That's why I just don't think Munkin would have to, there's no kerosene that needs to
14:38get thrown on the fire there.
14:39I think Munkin just had a misstep.
14:40I really don't think he calculated out properly what exactly was going to happen with this.
14:45A Munkin misstep?
14:46A Munkin misstep.
14:47You and I are both alliteration guys.
14:48We like that.
14:49We like it a lot.
14:50We had Testi Todd.
14:51We had Melatonin Munkin.
14:53Now we get the Munkin misstep.
14:54We had Melatonin Munkin misstep.
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