La Banda della Uno Bianca | Linea di confine 2025 - Video Dailymotion

DivinumCrime

Dal 1987 al 1994, la banda della Uno Bianca ha seminato terrore tra Emilia-Romagna e Marche, con 103 azioni criminali, 24 morti e 114 feriti. Nonostante anni di indagini complesse e depistaggi, nel 1996 vengono condannati i fratelli Savi e altri tre complici: cinque su sei erano poliziotti. In studio con Antonino Monteleone: l'ex prefetto di Roma Achille Serra, l'avvocato delle vittime Alessandro Gamberini, il giornalista Antonio Iovane e Daniele Paci, il magistrato che arrestò la banda.  #BandaUnoBianca #Banda #Uno #Bianca #Savi #FratelliSavi #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime

Transcript

00:00:19A sensational series of assaults, robberies and cold-blooded executions that terrorized Emilia

00:00:25Romagna and the Marche region, yesterday evening, presented a tragic scenario worthy of an American metropolis.

00:00:47The Uno Bianca gang was the protagonist, with 23 dead and 102 injured in over 100 criminal actions.

00:00:56It was a nightmare that lasted over 7 years.

00:01:02The gang almost always struck in the dark and managed to disappear into thin air despite the mobilization of the police.

00:01:13Here is a part of the incredible arsenal that the officers of the Rimini police station of the Bologna mobile squad

00:01:18they found in the homes of the brothers Roberto and Fabio Savi, considered by investigators to be the terrible killers of the Uno Bianca.

00:01:26Those responsible were arrested only in November 1994.

00:01:32Five were unsuspecting police officers.

00:01:36The boss was Roberto Savi, who served in the Bologna police headquarters, who together with his brothers Fabio, a truck driver, and Alberto, also

00:01:44he, a policeman, formed the stable nucleus of the gang.

00:01:48Who was in the car?

00:01:50There was me, Alberto the guide, Fabio in the back.

00:01:55What kind of car was it?

00:01:57A white Fiat 1.

00:01:58The Wise Men immediately assumed full responsibility, even confessing to crimes for which other people had been charged.

00:02:09The group's exploits began in June 1987 with robberies at motorway toll booths and then grew in ferocity.

00:02:20There was the phase of attacks against the cops, conducted as military incursions.

00:02:26The killers used machine guns, shotguns and explosive charges against the security guards who were collecting the takings,

00:02:34also shooting at supermarket customers and passers-by.

00:02:39It's in this place behind me, in via Gramsci in Castelmaggiore, behind a large supermarket,

00:02:46that this night, around 10 o'clock, two young carabinieri from the Castelmaggiore station

00:02:52They were murdered in a brutal way by a gang of criminals who are actively being sought.

00:03:00Two Carabinieri officers who were stopped in their service Alfa Romeo were killed near a police station.

00:03:06They didn't even have time to react.

00:03:11My husband heard the shot and saw this gentleman being injured, he got out of the car and started to

00:03:19scream,

00:03:20since there was a gentleman at the window, he started screaming, call 113 because in the meantime he's taking the number down

00:03:27of license plate.

00:03:28And he kept saying from the window, run, run, they'll come back and see her.

00:03:35They killed a pensioner, Primo Zecchi, just because he tried to write down their license plate number.

00:03:41The police are willing to pay a large reward to anyone who provides useful information to help them find the culprits.

00:03:46also because the crime was witnessed by a large crowd, given the time shortly after the shops closed.

00:03:54Since mid-1990 there has been an escalation, in just over a year they have committed 15 murders and 72 injuries.

00:04:02to take away less than 100 million lire.

00:04:05They kill at random, without motive, they shoot at foreign window cleaners, they fire lethal bursts at Roma camps,

00:04:13They shoot a gas station attendant dead and leave the proceeds on the ground.

00:04:16The two bandits could be the same ones who on October 6th, again in Bologna, killed with the same ferocity

00:04:21Primo Zecchi, also the witnesses of a harpy.

00:04:27The most serious episode occurred on January 4, 1991.

00:04:31At night, in the Pilastro neighborhood, they attacked a car with three carabinieri who were riddled with bullets.

00:04:37They were 21 and 22 years old, three carabinieri who were massacred by gunshots during a routine check round.

00:04:44machine guns and pistols.

00:04:48A claim of responsibility arrived in Lanza from a man who spoke with a foreign voice and said that the claim

00:04:55it is from a phantom armed phalanx.

00:04:59Reactions were stunned, indignant, and extremely concerned throughout Bologna and beyond.

00:05:06In May they struck in the historic center of Bologna, a few steps from the police headquarters.

00:05:12They kill the owner of a gun shop and a retired policeman who worked with her to take two guns and

00:05:18beretta.

00:05:20From the armory in Avoloturno in Bologna, where the owner and a clerk were murdered yesterday, no weapons were taken

00:05:27no money or weapons,

00:05:28except for the gun which could not be found and whose empty box was found on the counter

00:05:33of the shop.

00:05:35They will always use that pair of weapons alongside AR-70 submachine guns, leaving an unmistakable signature of their exploits.

00:05:46In the days around Ferragosto, in Rimini, they emptied their magazines into the street against the car of some Senegalese workers

00:05:53on vacation.

00:05:54Two die, one is injured, while fleeing, they shoot at a car with three boys.

00:06:00The entire region is shrouded in a pall of fear.

00:06:06We are in an extraordinary historical moment, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, right in Bologna, in February 1991,

00:06:14the end of the Italian Communist Party has been sanctioned and all political balances are changing.

00:06:22The White Uno assassins are ruthless and elusive.

00:06:26If they encounter police or carabinieri, they open fire first.

00:06:30For Libero Gualtieri, president of the massacre commission at the time, it was an unprecedented widespread massacre.

00:06:38After a long hiatus, the bandits finally turn to robbing the banks.

00:06:43Anyone who opposes will be punished.

00:06:45After a failed robbery, they wait in front of the branch manager's house to kill him.

00:06:54The strange thing was, how do these people know everything about a bank before they strike?

00:07:02And this made us think that they carried out thorough inspections.

00:07:06The mystery is solved by two policemen from Rimini, Pietro Costanza and Luciano Baglioni,

00:07:12who during a check in front of a bank become suspicious of Fabio Savi's behavior

00:07:18and they follow him to the house where he lived with a mysterious Romanian girl of Hungarian origins, Eva Mikula.

00:07:27This allows the three brothers to be identified and arrests to be made.

00:07:31What did Fabio say about the Carabinieri?

00:07:35He said that these are people who are a nuisance in his work.

00:07:39The Savis were sentenced to life imprisonment together with the policeman Marino Chipinti.

00:07:44But many continue to believe that the trial against the Savi brothers and their accomplices

00:07:49you only reveal part of the truth.

00:07:57Well, the question we'll be asking often this evening, the one we'll be asking our guests often, is precisely this.

00:08:04Such a long trail of blood, we're talking about seven years,

00:08:09It is the fruit of the banal wickedness of a group of bored policemen

00:08:13or behind the criminal enterprise of Uno Bianca, perhaps taking advantage of it with cold cynicism,

00:08:18a more complex mechanism was in motion, one with even greater objectives and interests.

00:08:25There are no certainties, but someone has connected the dots and sees a pattern.

00:08:30whose contours we will try to understand in the course of this episode.

00:08:39In 1991 I was a flying with pinti eyes, he was my patrol leader.

00:08:45We patrolled the city with our patrol car, which was called Pisa 2.

00:08:49It was the patrol car that controlled the central area, a part of the center.

00:08:54And I'll tell you that painted eyes, Marino painted eyes, he was a good policeman for me.

00:08:59I had a lot of respect for him and you can imagine when in 1994 we learned

00:09:06It was dramatic that he was also part of the Uno Bianca gang, I would never have imagined it.

00:09:13Urban warfare, with explosions and shootings, erupted last night outside a supermarket on the outskirts of Bologna.

00:09:19Once again, the tragic consequences were suffered by four young security guards,

00:09:25employees of a private security firm.

00:09:27We have never commented on the facts relating to these episodes, except from a personal point of view.

00:09:34of displeasure, in the sense that damn, of fear, because we always had jackets

00:09:42bulletproof ready and whenever there was news that could concern a fact,

00:09:48a shooting, a robbery, we were always on edge, all of us, the three of us on the crew.

00:09:58On April 20, 1988, during an assault on a supermarket in Castelmaggiore, in the Bologna area,

00:10:04they kill Cataldo Stasi and Umberto Enriu, two carabinieri.

00:10:08The Uno Bianca affair has had a huge impact, not only on the city of Bologna,

00:10:12but throughout Emilia Romagna, including part of the Marche, because it was a widespread massacre.

00:10:18We are faced with 103 criminal acts, 24 deaths, 115 injured, and therefore it involved

00:10:27also a huge amount of people and created widespread terror in the territory.

00:10:32After the shooting in Via Gobetti, yesterday Bologna experienced new scenes of violence, a robbery

00:10:37with two deaths, the concrete sign of something that has broken in a city considered a bit

00:10:43the last happy island.

00:10:45In the environment there was a lot of thought about local organised crime, there was the very idea

00:10:51that there was a sort of fifth mafia, fourth mafia, where the local crime

00:11:00he was the master.

00:11:01In Bologna, investigators still do not rule out the possibility that the two young Carabinieri were murdered

00:11:06last night in Castelmaggiore there may have been elements belonging to terrorist groups.

00:11:11Cataldo Stasi, 22 years old, from Ruvo di Puglia, and Umberto Enriu, 24 years old, from Orgosolo, are

00:11:18dead in a few moments, hit in cold blood by 8 or 10 gunshots.

00:11:25Immediately after the gang was formed, a carabinieri brigadier misled the investigation.

00:11:31precisely because of the Castelmaggiore murder which tends to give this very vision.

00:11:38He in particular blamed the phantom emissaries of the Nitto Santa Paola clan.

00:11:44Even though he is discovered, even though he is unmasked, his theses are in fact

00:11:53paradoxically they continue to influence investigators, this is also an element

00:11:58extraordinary.

00:11:58The killers arrived on the scene on board a white Fiat Uno car and

00:12:04fired with cynical coldness as in training.

00:12:07Most of the shots came from a rifle never used by the criminals, a machine gun.

00:12:12of the type supplied to the army's special forces, perhaps a Beretta SC70 capable of

00:12:19retain the shell casings and make it almost impossible to locate the weapon.

00:12:22We had imagined that they could perhaps be former representatives of the police force,

00:12:30but never policemen, I never thought about it.

00:12:33I probably wanted to exclude it, maybe we all told ourselves that way.

00:12:37In 1988 a criminal indicates two people, one tall and one short, as very suspicious.

00:12:48who are behind the Castelmaggiore Cup where the Stasi Carabinieri were killed

00:12:54del Rio and also indicates a car, an Alfetta, it also indicates license plate numbers.

00:13:01It can be seen that among those Alfettas that were later identified by the Carabinieri there is

00:13:07the name of Fabio Savio, but no further investigations were carried out.

00:13:14This happens on many occasions, even in a sensational one, during the Armory Murder.

00:13:25in Voltuno, in 91, on May 2nd, which is done with uncovered faces, the wise men are seen

00:13:32from the witnesses who are inside the armory.

00:13:34A ruthless execution of possible terrorist origin or a bloody robbery.

00:13:40These are the two most probable hypotheses, but they do not exclude others, such as arms trafficking, for example.

00:13:45under investigation by investigators since this morning, when shortly after midday they were discovered

00:13:50in an armory in the center of Bologna, the lifeless bodies of Licia Ansaloni, 48 years old, owner

00:13:55of the shop, and of his assistant Pietro Capolungo, 65 years old, a retired former carabiniere.

00:14:01And here there is a strange thing, however, that a little one is identical to Roberto Savi, the other has nothing to do with it.

00:14:07nothing with Fabio Savi.

00:14:09The owner of the armory, when he is begging, says, look, this little one looks like

00:14:16one of yours, sane, Sami, something like that, because he had sold him a gun,

00:14:26Roberto Savi was one of the armory's holdouts, these are all leads that are never followed up.

00:14:35Fabio Savi was identified as a tip-off, which is what the Minister of Finance says

00:14:41Intenni Maroni, when he is questioned at the trial in Bologna, right?

00:14:47Reports from someone.

00:14:52What were the reasons that led you to change the top brass of the secret services?

00:14:57The change at the top of SISDE and the Department was decided by me for a very simple reason,

00:15:05because I realized that there was a situation that, as far as I was concerned, offered no guarantees

00:15:14regarding the effective control by the directors of SISDE and the Department over the work

00:15:26of the SISDE information centers and of the public safety structure in general.

00:15:32And in fact, perhaps unconsciously, this change broke many balances, many situations.

00:15:42There was a chain reaction, so to speak, from the top everywhere.

00:15:46I have received signals from all the police stations that the signal that had arrived was that something was finally moving.

00:15:54And not by chance, perhaps, I don't know, but I believe that it is who contributed to this change

00:16:00at the top. A couple of months later, the SISDE were arrested.

00:16:06Former minister Roberto Maroni's testimony is important.

00:16:11The weight of his words cannot leave anyone indifferent.

00:16:14You heard something was not right and after the decision to change some top figures

00:16:20The Savi brothers are captured inside the information and security apparatus

00:16:25and the Uno Bianca shares stop.

00:16:28Meanwhile, however, the whole of Italy has watched helplessly for years as violence seems to have no apparent logic.

00:16:35Everyone in Emilia Romagna was afraid.

00:16:38Anyone could end up caught up in the madness of that firebrand who cared nothing for anyone.

00:16:44When the nightmare ends, however, we will have to deal with the devastating repercussions.

00:16:49on trust in the police.

00:16:58I knew Roberto Savi as I knew all my colleagues in the flying squad.

00:17:05Roberto Savi was on the shift that served after me

00:17:10and they would meet him in the corridor of the police station or at the change of shift.

00:17:21I learned about Occhi Pinti a few days after discovering Roberto Savi.

00:17:31I remember I was in the corridors of the police station, we were chatting with other colleagues

00:17:37that we had done the patrols together in '91 and the story of Marino Occhi Pinti came out.

00:17:43It seemed so absurd, so impossible, so strange to us that he was also one of the leaders of the gang.

00:17:51and at first we didn't want to believe it. It was something we could hear in the hallway.

00:17:58The city was hard on us and there was this idea in the city that all cops were murderers.

00:18:10A very sad episode happened here in the Bologna station area.

00:18:16Two policemen on duty saw two drug addicts with syringes in their hands

00:18:23They attempted extortion, they attempted to take money from passers-by, from ordinary people.

00:18:29Then they stopped them, they stopped them.

00:18:32These two with syringes in their hands started screaming

00:18:35you are assassins, you are Savi's friends, so you are also very prepared.

00:18:40You are Savi's friends and have attracted people's attention.

00:18:44The people who gathered around these two policemen shouting at them

00:18:49what are you doing, what are you doing.

00:18:52This policeman while he was telling me this said

00:18:54Ruoco asked us what we were doing and we could read an accusation in their eyes.

00:19:01An ex-girlfriend of mine at the time was terrified of being stopped by the police

00:19:08that usually maybe a single girl is walking around, there is a plainclothes car

00:19:13and he says don't worry we are policemen, this instead produced even more tension

00:19:19because you didn't know what kind of policemen you were facing at that moment.

00:19:22At first I thought, like many, that the Uno Bianca affair was over.

00:19:29behind the confession of the Wise Men.

00:19:32Who was in the car?

00:19:33I was there, Alberto was the guide, Fabio was behind.

00:19:39The bad cops weren't many, they were few,

00:19:42they had obviously done the very bad things they had done,

00:19:46but they had been captured anyway.

00:19:49Listen, what was the reason you killed the police?

00:19:54None, so as not to be stopped, it's all there.

00:19:58And I myself thought that the Uno Bianca affair was over,

00:20:04as Fabio Savi used to say, with the headlights and the license plate, as if there was nothing else.

00:20:10Secret services behind the Uno Bianca?

00:20:12Behind the White Uno there is the license plate, the headlights, the bumpers, that's it, there's nothing else.

00:20:16But then I had a lot of doubts, not only about the question of the capture,

00:20:21but on the cover-ups that have been made, on the role of the Carabinieri in certain circumstances,

00:20:28on witness management, on investigation management.

00:20:35And I also realized that those who I thought were super investigators,

00:20:41and then in the end they probably didn't understand much.

00:20:46It coincides with an incredible, stoic period, 1987-94.

00:20:51It's all there, the fall of the wall, the end of the Soviet Union, the end of the blockades,

00:20:58there are clean hands, there is the mafia offensive with the massacres,

00:21:03there is a period of great confusion and when we come to a conclusion of this period,

00:21:11things stabilize, 1994 Berlusconi wins,

00:21:16the story of the Uno Bianca also ends, as it is captured at that point.

00:21:23Uno Bianca, the crime novel of Emilia Romagna,

00:21:27It's a successful podcast created by Antonio Iovani,

00:21:30a fellow journalist, welcome to Linea di Confine,

00:21:32Thank you for being here with us.

00:21:34Thank you.

00:21:34Wanting to give a reading of the context,

00:21:38we just heard now,

00:21:39many things happened, many things were happening in those years,

00:21:43Was the White Uno an accident or was it an accelerant?

00:21:48The most strange thing is that the Uno Bianca's shots happen in a period

00:21:55where we had left behind the terror of the massacres,

00:22:00the terror of armed struggle, terrorism.

00:22:03It was the period in which Italy had started to have fun again,

00:22:08he thought he had defeated.

00:22:09He thought he had defeated the Red Brigades too,

00:22:11any terrorist organization,

00:22:14and yet there was that slice of Italy,

00:22:17Emilia Romagna is part of the Marche,

00:22:19who still lived in terror.

00:22:21And which is being undermined by these initiatives.

00:22:24And absolutely, if we think about 23 deaths,

00:22:26over 100 criminal episodes,

00:22:29but why did they do it?

00:22:31And this is the big question mark.

00:22:33Then it makes me think,

00:22:35There are two hypotheses,

00:22:36or they are fanatics in the grip of delusions of omnipotence,

00:22:40or is there something else,

00:22:42because there is a discrepancy,

00:22:44there is a very important difference

00:22:46between the goal they were aiming for,

00:22:49both the robberies, the money,

00:22:51and instead what is the result.

00:22:55The balance of...

00:22:55In the first four months alone,

00:22:57let's do a calculation with today's exchange rate,

00:23:00what they earned through robberies

00:23:02it's around 6,000 euros per month,

00:23:05which is a misery,

00:23:06if we think about the amount of bloodshed

00:23:09which they poured on Italy.

00:23:12In fact, you were right,

00:23:1423 dead,

00:23:15more than 100 injured in 7 years of criminal actions.

00:23:19And next to the victims of the murderous fury

00:23:22there are also the innocent ones,

00:23:25identified and processed

00:23:26until the real perpetrators are caught.

00:23:29We are talking about almost 60 people

00:23:31reached by prison orders,

00:23:34sometimes because of those voluntary diversions

00:23:38which we will talk about shortly,

00:23:39other times to give an answer

00:23:41to an alarmed population.

00:23:43Here, Floriana Bulfon reconstructs

00:23:46with the help of Alberto Capolungo

00:23:49this disturbing picture.

00:23:53Bologna, the 24-year-old was stopped by police on Saturday evening.

00:23:56he is accused of the murder of the three carabinieri

00:23:59occurred at the pillar on January 4, 1991.

00:24:01The arrest warrant was issued today.

00:24:04Many things don't add up.

00:24:07For example, the many wrong trials do not add up

00:24:10which are very convenient for them.

00:24:12For the assaults on the cups

00:24:15we're talking about a gang from Catania

00:24:19on business trips who came to carry out their operations

00:24:22and a trial is instituted

00:24:25and they are condemned

00:24:29definitely criminals

00:24:30but not the perpetrators of the crimes

00:24:32of the single-white band.

00:24:37The Bologna prosecutor's office announces

00:24:39of having arrested the Co. gang.

00:24:41According to investigators

00:24:43they would be criminals based in Catania

00:24:45away to Bologna

00:24:46especially for rapids.

00:24:48For the newspapers they become immediately

00:24:50the commuters of crime.

00:24:54When they are finally caught

00:25:00they were about to be sentenced to life imprisonment

00:25:04the criminals of a neighborhood of Bologna

00:25:07pillar

00:25:08the so-called pillar gang

00:25:09as authors of the pillar

00:25:14and other events.

00:25:15The investigations carried out by the Bologna investigators

00:25:17on the triple homicide

00:25:18led to the arrest

00:25:20of three small-time gangsters of the pillar

00:25:22brothers Peter and William Sant'Agata

00:25:24Massimiliano Motta

00:25:25and former Camorista Marco Medda.

00:25:28So they keep on acting

00:25:29undisturbed on the territory

00:25:32while others are condemned

00:25:35for the actions that are committed

00:25:37from this band

00:25:38which becomes the single-white band

00:25:40only at the end

00:25:41when a reconstruction can be done

00:25:43of all events.

00:25:45I'm very happy

00:25:46that they were my own colleagues

00:25:49of the police station

00:25:50that they have discovered

00:25:51this band.

00:25:54We are not all the same

00:25:56that is, that here too

00:25:56there are honest policemen

00:25:58policemen who

00:25:59for the most part

00:26:01that we are policemen

00:26:02that we gave our lives

00:26:03like Antone

00:26:04and like many others

00:26:05just to have faith in us

00:26:07why us

00:26:08we give life

00:26:10for the State Police

00:26:11as well as the carabinieri

00:26:12because we have

00:26:14we work for the same

00:26:16scope

00:26:17to help you citizens

00:26:19so that they don't happen

00:26:21of these things.

00:26:23Someone still asks me

00:26:24for example

00:26:24if these

00:26:25whether or not they are

00:26:26of terrorists

00:26:27then the processes

00:26:28they say they are not

00:26:28political terrorists

00:26:29but

00:26:30these have terrorized

00:26:32the population

00:26:33more and better

00:26:35of terrorists

00:26:36because they really have

00:26:37instilled

00:26:38in a city like Bologna

00:26:40for example

00:26:40which was known

00:26:41for a quality of life

00:26:42of a certain type

00:26:43the fear of going

00:26:45to take the money

00:26:46in the post office

00:26:48if you are a pensioner

00:26:49because they made money

00:26:50at the post office

00:26:50the fear of going

00:26:51to do the shopping at the copps

00:26:52the fear of going

00:26:54to get gas

00:26:55at the distributor

00:26:55why these

00:26:57they were arriving

00:26:57and left the dead

00:26:58and the injured on the spot

00:26:59maybe without even

00:27:01raise money

00:27:02blind violence

00:27:03the white Fiat 1

00:27:04the machine gun

00:27:05military type

00:27:06three constants

00:27:07which represent

00:27:08a signature

00:27:10during a robbery

00:27:12to a distributor

00:27:12at the gates of Bologna

00:27:14two victims

00:27:15one of which

00:27:16had perhaps seen

00:27:16the bandits

00:27:17change cars

00:27:18in a side street

00:27:20and there are episodes

00:27:22that remain

00:27:23absolutely obscure

00:27:25perfectly described

00:27:26in the modes

00:27:27at this point

00:27:29but

00:27:31incomprehensible

00:27:32in the motivations

00:27:34but that

00:27:35around them

00:27:37it was not wanted

00:27:39could see

00:27:40it is equally evident

00:27:43painted eyes

00:27:44for example

00:27:45after the murder

00:27:46Beccari

00:27:46of '88

00:27:47he retires from the band

00:27:48and go back to doing it

00:27:50the good cop

00:27:51respected

00:27:53inside the question

00:27:53from Bologna

00:27:54but

00:27:55he knows very well

00:27:56That

00:27:57your

00:27:59former accomplices

00:27:59his friends

00:28:00they continue to do

00:28:01what they did

00:28:06they entered the scene

00:28:08they entered among the criminals

00:28:09other policemen

00:28:11Marino Occhi Pinti

00:28:12who provided services in Bologna

00:28:14in the prosecutor's office

00:28:15Luca Vallicelli

00:28:17him too

00:28:18he provided services in Bologna

00:28:19and Pietro Gugliotta

00:28:20it too

00:28:21in Bologna

00:28:22belonged to the patrol cars

00:28:23and that was all

00:28:24a fire group

00:28:25and this was

00:28:27confirmed

00:28:27in those days

00:28:29I hear testimonies

00:28:31of members

00:28:32to the forces

00:28:32of the order

00:28:32of that time

00:28:33that they put

00:28:34clearly in light

00:28:34the inability

00:28:36or even

00:28:37the competition

00:28:39between the departments

00:28:41of the police

00:28:42from Bologna

00:28:42among the mobile squad

00:28:43and for example

00:28:45the flying squads

00:28:46there is no understanding

00:28:47among the carabinieri

00:28:49and the police

00:28:50there was no agreement

00:28:51this failure

00:28:52collaboration

00:28:53it's a serious fault

00:28:55we are sure

00:28:56that there are no others

00:28:57that are not identified

00:28:59the armed valence

00:29:00was

00:29:01the whole thing

00:29:01and contrary to everything

00:29:02said Prefect Parisi

00:29:05he claimed

00:29:05everything except

00:29:06original sin

00:29:07and that's how it is

00:29:08I believe that

00:29:10you have to wait

00:29:11the development

00:29:12of the investigations

00:29:13to have elements

00:29:14more concrete

00:29:15avoiding doing

00:29:17of the inferences

00:29:17that could

00:29:18lead us astray

00:29:19teaching Italian

00:29:21in fourth

00:29:22one creates enlightenment

00:29:25start to explain

00:29:26the butcher's shop

00:29:28the lesson of the administrators

00:29:30for which the death penalty

00:29:31torture

00:29:32they are useless

00:29:34and harmful

00:29:35in a good legal system

00:29:37and there was always

00:29:38a student

00:29:39that maybe he came there

00:29:40with the blow

00:29:41I would like to see

00:29:41if it happened to her

00:29:42prof

00:29:43and then in that case

00:29:45he came to answer

00:29:47on guard

00:29:47that I have already given

00:29:48abundantly

00:29:49and so then

00:29:50I was telling you

00:29:51that I remained

00:29:52of my opinion

00:29:53against the death penalty

00:29:55even despite

00:29:56what happened to me

00:29:57and I explained to them

00:29:58what happened to me

00:29:59Obviously

00:30:00to be against

00:30:01to the death penalty

00:30:01it doesn't mean

00:30:02to be

00:30:03some do-gooders

00:30:04he asked for clemency

00:30:06to Roberto Savi

00:30:06one of the leaders

00:30:07of the band

00:30:08of the White Uno

00:30:09scandalized

00:30:10the family members

00:30:10of the many victims

00:30:11he killed my son

00:30:1322 years old

00:30:17scoundrel

00:30:19Judah

00:30:21criminal

00:30:21it was my life

00:30:23our life

00:30:24therefore

00:30:25it's destroyed down here

00:30:26and he there

00:30:27he there

00:30:28he should stay in jail

00:30:29must die

00:30:30in there

00:30:30to die

00:30:31the gravity of the facts

00:30:32what we are talking about

00:30:33it is such that

00:30:35before

00:30:36to give permission

00:30:38or release

00:30:40the authors

00:30:41of so much violence

00:30:43of so much blood

00:30:44I believe

00:30:45that we want it

00:30:45I want to see it

00:30:47I want to see it

00:30:48this beast

00:30:49he is a criminal

00:30:50I want to see it

00:30:51Enough

00:30:52in court

00:30:53in Bologna

00:30:54you see them

00:30:55somehow

00:30:56there behind bars

00:30:57that smile at you

00:30:59and they seem

00:30:59learned around

00:31:00up to that sentence

00:31:03note for example

00:31:04who is a mother

00:31:05that he had lost

00:31:05a son

00:31:06and who complained

00:31:08precisely

00:31:09of this loss

00:31:11annoyed

00:31:12one of the saved

00:31:13he tells her

00:31:14they do another one

00:31:17when I thought

00:31:18to Alberto Savi

00:31:19I thought

00:31:20to a person

00:31:20polite

00:31:22a person

00:31:23in a way

00:31:23a good person

00:31:24I couldn't

00:31:25own

00:31:26to understand

00:31:27When

00:31:29I succeeded

00:31:30to glimpse it

00:31:31my first instinct

00:31:32that was it

00:31:33Of

00:31:34to fight over them

00:31:35and tell him

00:31:37how could you

00:31:38how could you

00:31:39do this to us

00:31:41how could you

00:31:42kill Antonio

00:31:43how could you

00:31:44kill many people

00:31:46how could you

00:31:47do this

00:31:53after I found out

00:31:55that he

00:31:56he declared

00:31:57that for that

00:31:59spit

00:31:59that I did to him

00:32:01he said

00:32:02that he had known

00:32:03so much

00:32:04he would have left me

00:32:06die

00:32:07that evening

00:32:07he would have shot me

00:32:08moreover

00:32:09on the highway

00:32:13I don't know

00:32:14that there was

00:32:14a real one

00:32:15repentance

00:32:16to do

00:32:16I also have

00:32:17a socket

00:32:17of conscience

00:32:18adequate

00:32:19of the enormity

00:32:20of this

00:32:20that they combined

00:32:21and then

00:32:22In short

00:32:23he is happy

00:32:24to see them in jail

00:32:25I am not

00:32:26contrary

00:32:27to the death penalty

00:32:28but I'm against it

00:32:29even to that one

00:32:30bad sentence

00:32:30for which

00:32:32let's put them in jail

00:32:33and throw it away

00:32:34the key

00:32:34No

00:32:35I don't think so

00:32:36Like this

00:32:36but I always think

00:32:38that the responsibilities

00:32:39are personal

00:32:39In my opinion

00:32:40these people

00:32:40they are fine in jail

00:32:41even now

00:32:43we know what

00:32:44and how

00:32:45says Capolungo

00:32:46who is the son

00:32:47of one of the victims

00:32:48of events

00:32:49of the White Auno

00:32:50but why

00:32:51it has blurred edges

00:32:53the why

00:32:54it has blurred edges

00:32:55for the speech

00:32:56what we did before

00:32:57it is not clear

00:32:58Why

00:32:59if they want

00:33:00rob

00:33:01if they want

00:33:02to steal money

00:33:02then they act

00:33:03with that violence

00:33:05there is

00:33:06one of the victims

00:33:07that at a certain point

00:33:08he sees them run away

00:33:09and says

00:33:10safet delinquent

00:33:11what are you doing criminals?

00:33:12they even though they have

00:33:13the balaclava

00:33:15and therefore not being

00:33:15recognizable

00:33:16they shoot him

00:33:17first ticks

00:33:19is taking

00:33:20the license plate

00:33:21of the car

00:33:21with which they came

00:33:22but it's a stolen car

00:33:23and then

00:33:24they would have left

00:33:25undone

00:33:25they notice it

00:33:27and they shoot him

00:33:28why this violence

00:33:30why in the armory

00:33:31of Via Volturno

00:33:32if they really wanted

00:33:33take

00:33:33simply two weapons

00:33:35they killed

00:33:36Lucian Saloni

00:33:37they waited

00:33:38Peter Capolungo

00:33:39ten minutes

00:33:40in there

00:33:41to kill him

00:33:42why all this

00:33:43I don't know

00:33:45what results

00:33:47is that the result

00:33:48of all this

00:33:49it's terror

00:33:50because what they have

00:33:51unleashed

00:33:52in Emilia Romagna

00:33:53in these seven years

00:33:53it's terror

00:33:54if then

00:33:55let it be terror

00:33:56straight straight

00:33:57that is, if someone

00:33:59there is

00:33:59at a higher level

00:34:00and that he has them

00:34:01somehow

00:34:02routed

00:34:03or not

00:34:04this remains to be seen

00:34:05and we'll find out

00:34:06through also

00:34:07the investigations

00:34:08what will he do

00:34:10the prosecutor's office

00:34:11from Bologna

00:34:12in these weeks

00:34:13we stop

00:34:13for a small one

00:34:15commercial break

00:34:15and we return

00:34:16to talk

00:34:17of the White Uno

00:34:18with a debate

00:34:18very rich

00:34:19and other services

00:34:31services followed

00:34:32behind the White Uno

00:34:34behind the White Uno

00:34:35there is the license plate

00:34:36the headlights

00:34:36the screens

00:34:37Enough

00:34:37there is nothing else

00:34:39it's not about

00:34:40of policemen

00:34:41serial killer

00:34:43for reasons

00:34:44of sadism

00:34:45there's much more

00:34:46behind this story

00:34:49the exam

00:34:50of the pipelines

00:34:51of the wise men

00:34:51leads to verification

00:34:53absolutely

00:34:54absolutely peaceful

00:34:55that their criminal conduct

00:34:57they were motivated

00:34:58for terrorist reasons

00:35:00this is peaceful

00:35:01let's think about the murders

00:35:03of Castel Maggiore

00:35:04that occur

00:35:05in April 1988

00:35:06there are two young people

00:35:07Carabinieri

00:35:08in Castel Maggiore

00:35:08that are stopped

00:35:09at a level crossing

00:35:10turn on the flashing light

00:35:12they make a U-turn

00:35:13and they take off screeching

00:35:15and where are they going?

00:35:16they go to a place

00:35:17where they will come from

00:35:18slaughtered by the wise men

00:35:19Cataldo Stasi

00:35:2022 years old

00:35:21from Ruvo di Puglia

00:35:22and Umberto Enriu

00:35:2324 years old

00:35:24from Orgosolo

00:35:25they died

00:35:26in a few moments

00:35:27struck cold

00:35:288 or 10 shots

00:35:29of gun

00:35:30then victims

00:35:31of an ambush

00:35:31which was

00:35:33Obviously

00:35:34organized

00:35:35even through

00:35:36some complicity

00:35:37internal

00:35:38it is certain

00:35:38that when

00:35:39the two soldiers

00:35:40of the weapon

00:35:40they turned on

00:35:41the spotlight

00:35:42to illuminate

00:35:42the scene

00:35:43they were invested

00:35:44from a granule

00:35:45of very precise shots

00:35:46almost all on target

00:35:47almost all mortal

00:35:49as if I exploded

00:35:50precisely

00:35:50by professionals

00:35:51the wise men

00:35:53they don't give

00:35:54an explanation

00:35:55of this massacre

00:35:57minimally

00:35:58then they say

00:35:59of being two

00:36:00while peacefully

00:36:02the authors

00:36:03of the murder

00:36:04there is a demonstration

00:36:06ballistics

00:36:06on this level

00:36:07technique

00:36:08there are at least three

00:36:09the logic

00:36:10terrorist

00:36:10of the wise men

00:36:11it's a logic

00:36:12which runs through

00:36:12all their actions

00:36:14Meaning what

00:36:14we think

00:36:14to an episode

00:36:16resounding

00:36:17which is

00:36:17the massacre

00:36:18of the pillar

00:36:18where they are killed

00:36:19three young carabinieri

00:36:21that have been

00:36:22placed

00:36:23in front of a school

00:36:24where they are hosted

00:36:26of non-EU citizens

00:36:28which was

00:36:28object

00:36:29of shapes

00:36:30of vandalism

00:36:30the previous nights

00:36:32and then

00:36:33it is decided

00:36:33a post

00:36:34fixed

00:36:35they move

00:36:36and they are victims

00:36:38of a glance

00:36:38which is the look

00:36:39made of salt

00:36:40they will be slaughtered

00:36:41like a real one

00:36:43execution

00:36:44it is unthinkable

00:36:45that three young people

00:36:46Carabinieri

00:36:47they move

00:36:47from an order

00:36:49of service

00:36:50that Nicolava them

00:36:51a post

00:36:51fixed

00:36:53without having received

00:36:54some indications

00:36:56different

00:36:56Meaning what

00:36:58someone

00:36:58he told him

00:36:59to move

00:37:00the three young carabinieri

00:37:01they tried

00:37:01a reaction

00:37:02the pilot

00:37:03of the car

00:37:03he was struck by lightning

00:37:04in its place

00:37:05the other two

00:37:05they succeeded

00:37:06to go out

00:37:06from the cockpit

00:37:07one is also

00:37:08was able

00:37:09to shoot

00:37:09against the attackers

00:37:10before falling

00:37:11riddled with bullets

00:37:12with the two companions

00:37:13before leaving

00:37:14one of the bandits

00:37:16go and check

00:37:17that the carabinieri

00:37:17they are all dead

00:37:18then he comes in

00:37:19in the cockpit

00:37:20of the machine

00:37:21and take away

00:37:21the order of service

00:37:22the document

00:37:23on which

00:37:24they are written

00:37:25all people

00:37:25identified

00:37:26I think

00:37:27what deviant services

00:37:29doily

00:37:30it's the example

00:37:31that once again

00:37:33should go

00:37:35evaluated

00:37:35it is made up

00:37:37from the fact

00:37:39that some

00:37:39of these crimes

00:37:40from a certain point

00:37:41onwards

00:37:41are claimed

00:37:42from this acronym

00:37:43of the armed phalanx

00:37:45the armed phalanx

00:37:47it was composed

00:37:48from a group

00:37:48of members

00:37:50to the services

00:37:51the wise men

00:37:52they act through campaigns

00:37:54that is, for example

00:37:55they are doing this campaign

00:37:56of the robberies

00:37:58to the cups

00:37:59which then close

00:38:00when it is detected

00:38:02the band

00:38:03of the people of Catania

00:38:04as authors

00:38:04of the robberies

00:38:05who will be condemned

00:38:06to life imprisonment

00:38:06then they too

00:38:07Obviously

00:38:07the wise men discovered

00:38:09acquitted

00:38:09for campaigns

00:38:11and these campaigns

00:38:12if one looks

00:38:14the press releases

00:38:15of the armed phalanx

00:38:18they are cadenced

00:38:20from the press releases

00:38:21they try to unleash

00:38:22for example

00:38:23this integrated company

00:38:24against extra communications

00:38:32SISD press release

00:38:34after the road

00:38:34of the pillar

00:38:35that road

00:38:36it has been accomplished

00:38:36from Slavic nomads

00:38:37the wise men

00:38:40in December 90

00:38:42they commit all the crimes

00:38:43against non-EU citizens

00:38:46they shoot at zero height

00:38:48to nomad camps

00:38:49and they hurt

00:38:50seriously injured children

00:38:52in two nomad camps

00:38:54they shoot a non-EU citizen

00:38:56that is turning

00:38:57by bicycle

00:38:58they shoot while passing by in a car

00:39:00that is, the wise men

00:39:02that's a context

00:39:04where they opened

00:39:05a campaign

00:39:06which is a campaign

00:39:07on fear

00:39:09towards migrants

00:39:11antelittera

00:39:14them behind

00:39:16they definitely have

00:39:17service sectors

00:39:19they definitely have

00:39:21sectors

00:39:22deviated

00:39:23of the carabinieri

00:39:24the red herrings

00:39:25they aim

00:39:26to make immune

00:39:28the wise men

00:39:28because I am

00:39:29red herrings

00:39:30very refined

00:39:31which are not explainable

00:39:33if not

00:39:33with some

00:39:34even once

00:39:35some external complicity

00:39:37there is a brigadier

00:39:38of the carabinieri

00:39:39which was part

00:39:39of the operational core

00:39:40from Bologna

00:39:41so let's talk

00:39:43of the chosen group

00:39:44who does the investigations

00:39:45criminals

00:39:45which is discovered

00:39:47that builds

00:39:48red herrings

00:39:49in the end

00:39:50they were condemned

00:39:51for slander

00:39:52but they were just slanders

00:39:53or there was something

00:39:54moreover

00:39:54of different

00:39:57red herrings

00:39:58so

00:39:59refined

00:40:00to be made

00:40:00necessary

00:40:01complicity

00:40:02external

00:40:02high-level

00:40:03the lawyer

00:40:04Shrimp

00:40:04he did

00:40:05What

00:40:05essentially

00:40:06an operation

00:40:07rather

00:40:08complex

00:40:09we could say

00:40:09which united

00:40:10the points

00:40:11he put together

00:40:12all episodes

00:40:13criminals

00:40:13he observed them

00:40:14keeping in mind

00:40:15the context

00:40:16and formulated

00:40:17a series of observations

00:40:18which constitute

00:40:19the base

00:40:20of a new investigation

00:40:21which is taking place

00:40:22the judiciary

00:40:22meat sauce

00:40:23to try to understand

00:40:24once

00:40:24for all

00:40:25if above

00:40:26the white 1

00:40:27was there or not

00:40:28a higher level

00:40:30these are some

00:40:31of the knots

00:40:32that remain

00:40:33to be dissolved

00:40:34In the meantime, I welcome you

00:40:35to the lawyer Gamberini

00:40:36who came to visit us

00:40:37in the studio

00:40:38lawyer

00:40:38I'll start right away

00:40:40saying that there is someone

00:40:40what does he say?

00:40:41that is nothing true

00:40:43which as Savi says

00:40:44behind

00:40:45the white 1

00:40:46there is the bumper

00:40:47the license plate

00:40:47it's all over

00:40:48I look normally

00:40:49I don't like conspiracy theories

00:40:51I always think

00:40:52that those who stir up plots

00:40:53must demonstrate them

00:40:54and we have arrived

00:40:57to the formulation

00:40:58of well-founded hypotheses

00:40:59I'm talking about well-founded hypotheses

00:41:01then the demonstration

00:41:03how to say

00:41:03absolute

00:41:04there will be

00:41:05when it will be found

00:41:06some feedback

00:41:07further

00:41:07but what is proven

00:41:10from a reading

00:41:11of the episodes

00:41:12concatenated

00:41:13it's the plausibility

00:41:14of the presence

00:41:15not only the plausibility

00:41:16but also a series

00:41:17of connections

00:41:17that is, let's not forget

00:41:19that when it is said

00:41:21it had already closed

00:41:22the chapter on terrorism

00:41:23one thing is said

00:41:23which is not true

00:41:24all the way

00:41:25why Bologna

00:41:26the latest terrorist episode

00:41:27he had it

00:41:28in 1984

00:41:31when there was

00:41:33the rapid 904

00:41:34the attack

00:41:35to the 904 express

00:41:37in 1987

00:41:38when the Wise Men begin

00:41:40there was

00:41:40the arrest

00:41:40by Licio Gelli

00:41:41what he has

00:41:42sent to say

00:41:42with his lawyer

00:41:44that he would have brought out

00:41:45the nails

00:41:46if they tried

00:41:48and Licio Gelli

00:41:49that's what it was

00:41:51called into question

00:41:52is dead

00:41:53so he could not be convicted

00:41:54but called into question

00:41:56with many findings

00:41:57like one

00:41:59who had

00:42:00a leading role

00:42:01in the context

00:42:01of the Bologna massacre

00:42:02a leading role

00:42:03of financing

00:42:04of that massacre

00:42:05no I'm saying this

00:42:06because the path

00:42:08which makes

00:42:09a question

00:42:11what's behind it

00:42:12to the band of the Wise

00:42:13it starts from a premise

00:42:15why ever in 1987

00:42:17the Wise Men should appear

00:42:19with a strategy

00:42:20of tension

00:42:21which is no longer

00:42:21the coup plotter

00:42:22Obviously

00:42:23it's not that

00:42:23it's still the same

00:42:25to condition

00:42:26the future of this country

00:42:27and the era

00:42:28where it was said

00:42:29in this broadcast

00:42:30it's a very delicate time

00:42:32that is, the passage

00:42:33from the first

00:42:34to the Second Republic

00:42:35in the end

00:42:35as we said before

00:42:36they were happening

00:42:37many things

00:42:37all the things already said

00:42:38then I say

00:42:39we have delivered

00:42:40a complaint

00:42:41of 240 pages

00:42:43to the Bologna judiciary

00:42:44which showed

00:42:45to take it

00:42:47very seriously

00:42:47and there are investigations

00:42:49in progress

00:42:49scientific investigations

00:42:50delegated investigations

00:42:52we have some feedback

00:42:53compared to Castelmaggiore

00:42:54very obvious

00:42:56that do yes

00:42:56what can we say

00:42:58with plausible certainty

00:43:00that those policemen

00:43:01they were attracted

00:43:02in an ambush

00:43:03and they were attracted

00:43:04in an ambush

00:43:05because they had

00:43:07previously

00:43:08accomplished

00:43:09of the investigations

00:43:10that were disturbing

00:43:11we'll get there soon

00:43:12we also get to the topic

00:43:14of the red herrings

00:43:15but first

00:43:15let's go back

00:43:16by Alberto Capolungo

00:43:18he is the son

00:43:19of one of the victims

00:43:20of the White Auno

00:43:20his father

00:43:21he worked

00:43:22to the armory

00:43:22of Via Volturno

00:43:23a strange robbery

00:43:25the one that has

00:43:26left

00:43:27in his head

00:43:28many

00:43:29many questions

00:43:30it arrived at this moment

00:43:32the news

00:43:33that two other policemen

00:43:35they were arrested

00:43:37for the case

00:43:38One White

00:43:42one of the two

00:43:43he was a policeman

00:43:45very well known

00:43:48he was a boy

00:43:48a boy

00:43:49a murderer

00:43:51who worked

00:43:54to the mobile squad

00:43:55this morning they went

00:43:56at the police station

00:43:57I saw some policemen

00:43:58cry

00:43:59these criminals are

00:44:01five out of six

00:44:02some policemen

00:44:03and then

00:44:05difficult

00:44:07suspect

00:44:08the members

00:44:09to the forces

00:44:10of the order

00:44:10but

00:44:11the fact is

00:44:12That

00:44:13Not

00:44:14there is a similar story

00:44:15with seven and a half years

00:44:17of total impatience

00:44:18of a band

00:44:18that behaves

00:44:19in this way

00:44:20which is born

00:44:20as

00:44:21of the simple ones

00:44:23robbers

00:44:23of toll booths

00:44:24are part of

00:44:25for all intents and purposes

00:44:26of the fire group

00:44:27which has exterminated

00:44:27and wounded

00:44:28dozens of people

00:44:29in Emilia Romagna

00:44:30and Marche

00:44:30in eight years

00:44:31of terror

00:44:31then it becomes

00:44:35a band

00:44:36that attacks

00:44:38post offices

00:44:39a band

00:44:40at least

00:44:41six people

00:44:42he attacked

00:44:42a post office

00:44:43in a central area

00:44:45from Bologna

00:44:45the mobile squad

00:44:46talks about

00:44:47crazy criminals

00:44:48and it seems to understand

00:44:49in the same world

00:44:50of crime

00:44:51in which he investigates

00:44:52to identify

00:44:52the guilty

00:44:53of other bloody robberies

00:44:54carried out

00:44:55to the detriment of supermarkets

00:44:57located along

00:44:58the Via Emilia

00:44:58from Rimini

00:44:59in Bologna

00:45:00gas station attendants

00:45:01bloody robbery

00:45:02in the afternoon

00:45:03to a distributor

00:45:04of gasoline

00:45:04in Bologna

00:45:05two deaths

00:45:06one seriously injured

00:45:07armored vehicles

00:45:08of the cups

00:45:10a commando

00:45:10at least

00:45:115-6 bandits

00:45:12he waited

00:45:12that a van

00:45:13armored vehicles

00:45:13escorted

00:45:14from a car

00:45:14he stopped

00:45:15in front of the cup

00:45:16for the withdrawal

00:45:17from the continuous cash register

00:45:18of Monday's collection

00:45:19the four security guards

00:45:21they had just made

00:45:22the withdrawal

00:45:22when it was done

00:45:23to explode a device

00:45:24with the clear purpose

00:45:25to create disorientation

00:45:27and only at the end

00:45:28they will become

00:45:29specialists

00:45:29of bank robberies

00:45:30an absurd death

00:45:31without any fault

00:45:32this morning

00:45:33on the outskirts of Bologna

00:45:34on a country road

00:45:35he was killed

00:45:36in cold blood

00:45:37with 5 gunshots

00:45:39a young man

00:45:3921 years old

00:45:40Massimiliano Valenti

00:45:42he lived in Zola Predosa

00:45:43in Tasso Street

00:45:44he found himself faced with

00:45:45two bandits

00:45:46that immediately

00:45:47after the opening

00:45:48they had robbed

00:45:49200 million

00:45:49to the agency

00:45:50of the Romagna credit

00:45:51a few dozen meters

00:45:52further on

00:45:53you could see the image

00:45:54of a subject

00:45:55with a wig

00:45:57Ray-Bans

00:45:58and a raincoat

00:45:59that was

00:46:00the only thing

00:46:01that we had

00:46:02this after though

00:46:05at least a year

00:46:06of fire

00:46:07which is that

00:46:08between 90 and 91

00:46:09where their work

00:46:11I can't explain it

00:46:12like that

00:46:13of a normal band

00:46:14why 15

00:46:15of the 23 dead

00:46:16they made them

00:46:17in those few months

00:46:18they killed him

00:46:20with two gunshots

00:46:21the left cheekbone

00:46:22on the nose

00:46:22just as he was screaming

00:46:23called 113

00:46:24called 113

00:46:25a few moments before

00:46:26he was aiming

00:46:27the license plate numbers

00:46:28of the car

00:46:28of the two robbers

00:46:29who had attempted

00:46:30a robbery

00:46:31in a grocery store

00:46:32and robbed

00:46:33and wounded

00:46:33another person

00:46:34and these dead

00:46:36they are almost all

00:46:36inexplicable

00:46:37unmotivated

00:46:39assaults

00:46:39the nomad camps

00:46:40after the assassination

00:46:41of a Tunisian

00:46:42abandoned

00:46:43in a ditch

00:46:43he is attacked

00:46:44a nomad camp

00:46:45on the outskirts

00:46:46to Saint Catherine

00:46:47of Quarto

00:46:47nine gypsies

00:46:49women and children

00:46:50they are seriously injured

00:46:51a few days later

00:46:52a second nomad camp

00:46:54is targeted

00:46:55two people die

00:46:56hit in the head

00:46:58a gang doesn't make them

00:46:59of chemiani ormani

00:47:01firefight

00:47:02with the police

00:47:03we stopped

00:47:03under an overpass

00:47:05when we were hit

00:47:07they riddled us with bullets

00:47:08of shots

00:47:09what struck her

00:47:10during the shooting

00:47:12they were ready

00:47:13waiting for us

00:47:14so it means

00:47:14who knew

00:47:15they knew that

00:47:16the police

00:47:17almost certainly

00:47:17it was there

00:47:18excess of the pillar

00:47:19three very young people dead

00:47:20three carabinieri

00:47:21they were 21 and 22 years old

00:47:23three carabinieri

00:47:24that during

00:47:24a normal check-up

00:47:26they were massacred

00:47:27with machine gun fire

00:47:28and guns

00:47:31the event that involved me

00:47:32for example

00:47:33the killing of my father

00:47:33the armory

00:47:34killed by bullets

00:47:35remotely exploded

00:47:36very close

00:47:37a blow to the head

00:47:38of the woman

00:47:39a shot in the throat

00:47:40of man

00:47:42we are in a street

00:47:44of the historic center

00:47:46from Bologna

00:47:47a place

00:47:49very busy

00:47:50Where

00:47:50a car passes by

00:47:52of a policeman

00:47:52you're stuck

00:47:53it stops you

00:47:54a truck

00:47:54of the garbage

00:47:55you're stuck

00:47:56And

00:47:58what are they going to do there?

00:47:59to steal

00:48:01two Berettas

00:48:02which they then use

00:48:02to sign others

00:48:04crimes subsequently

00:48:05it doesn't make sense

00:48:07they would not have been taken away

00:48:09money

00:48:10nor weapons

00:48:10apart from the gun

00:48:11that cannot be found

00:48:13and whose empty box

00:48:14it was found

00:48:15on the shop counter

00:48:16it's from

00:48:1830 years old

00:48:19that I know

00:48:20how it was

00:48:22shown

00:48:22my father

00:48:22but I didn't understand

00:48:24Why

00:48:26and why

00:48:27together with many

00:48:28others

00:48:29innocent

00:48:30of very different

00:48:32typology

00:48:33this morning

00:48:34he met

00:48:34the committee

00:48:35for public order

00:48:36and it was held

00:48:36in Bologna

00:48:37a summit

00:48:37of the investigators

00:48:38busy

00:48:39in the investigations

00:48:40on the latest crimes

00:48:41from the massacre

00:48:42of three carabinieri

00:48:43happened in the neighborhood

00:48:43Pillar

00:48:44to the analogous

00:48:45triple attack

00:48:46to the detriment of soldiers

00:48:47of the weapon

00:48:47registered

00:48:48a few days ago

00:48:48in Rimini

00:48:49At that time

00:48:51that 90-91

00:48:52they don't have

00:48:53an explanation

00:48:54logic

00:48:54from that stage

00:48:55onwards

00:48:56one starts

00:48:56to suspect

00:48:57seen their

00:48:58movements

00:48:59their tactics

00:49:00own

00:49:00of members

00:49:02to military forces

00:49:03or paramilitaries

00:49:03the assassins

00:49:04they arrived

00:49:05on site

00:49:05on board

00:49:06of a car

00:49:07Fiat 1

00:49:07white

00:49:08and they shot

00:49:09with cynical coldness

00:49:10as in training

00:49:13two

00:49:13they are done

00:49:14of the findings

00:49:16on weapons

00:49:16that they used

00:49:17and after

00:49:18the Pillar

00:49:19for example

00:49:19they go to do

00:49:20of the findings

00:49:21the investigators

00:49:22on the R70s

00:49:23a little bit of a weapon

00:49:24particular

00:49:25that was coming

00:49:25used

00:49:26Well

00:49:27Roberto Savi

00:49:28he owns two

00:49:29the only one

00:49:30owner

00:49:30of two R70s

00:49:31in all

00:49:32the region

00:49:33at that moment

00:49:39we don't know

00:49:40Roberto

00:49:41what job does he do?

00:49:42we know though

00:49:43who lives in Bologna

00:49:44Dr. Paggi

00:49:45authorizes us

00:49:46to go to Bologna

00:49:47to make an investigation

00:49:48at the police station

00:49:48right on that occasion

00:49:50a student

00:49:51allowed

00:49:52a reconstruction

00:49:54this witness

00:49:55of the face

00:49:58by Roberto Savi

00:50:00an identikit

00:50:01which is a photocopy

00:50:02of its summative traits

00:50:04true

00:50:06this photo

00:50:08it is therefore

00:50:08available

00:50:09of all offices

00:50:09of the police

00:50:10from this moment onwards

00:50:16through the office

00:50:17administrative

00:50:18we wanted to know

00:50:19what weapons

00:50:19had this

00:50:20Savi Roberto

00:50:21but we didn't know

00:50:22who was still there

00:50:23the colleague

00:50:24of the office

00:50:24administrative

00:50:25opens the file

00:50:27there was the photograph

00:50:28by Savi Roberto

00:50:29and he exclaimed

00:50:31but this is the same

00:50:32to that one

00:50:33the identikit

00:50:34of the robbery

00:50:36the armory

00:50:37there was a colleague

00:50:38sitting

00:50:39who wrote

00:50:40in the car

00:50:40he got curious

00:50:41and he came to see

00:50:42when he saw

00:50:43the photography

00:50:44he said

00:50:44it took a while

00:50:45to laugh

00:50:45he said

00:50:45look, this is a colleague

00:50:47he's working

00:50:48up here

00:50:49the operations room

00:50:49me and Peter

00:50:50we stayed

00:50:51Truly

00:50:52of marble

00:50:53we froze

00:50:54the blood

00:50:55we told them

00:50:57look

00:50:57if you tell me

00:50:58who is a colleague

00:50:59here we are

00:51:00probably wrong

00:51:01we are investigating

00:51:02on a traffic

00:51:03of weapons

00:51:03let's forget it

00:51:05we were wrong

00:51:06we closed

00:51:07the file

00:51:08we didn't take

00:51:09Nothing

00:51:09I must say, in fact

00:51:10that we have withdrawn

00:51:11the request too

00:51:12what we had done

00:51:12to see it

00:51:13why don't we leave

00:51:14traces

00:51:14we take everything away

00:51:15why find out

00:51:16that inside

00:51:17because we were

00:51:18as I said

00:51:19safe

00:51:19that these subjects

00:51:21they belonged

00:51:21banned

00:51:21I'm turning white

00:51:22to discover

00:51:23that there was

00:51:23a policeman

00:51:24in service

00:51:26and it scared us

00:51:27and yet

00:51:28we are in 91

00:51:29It's May 2nd

00:51:30of 91

00:51:31and we arrive

00:51:32until

00:51:33shift of 94

00:51:34before they take them

00:51:35stay strong

00:51:36as if they didn't exist

00:51:38and the 91

00:51:39when the investigator

00:51:41would identify

00:51:42Roberto Savi

00:51:43it's about

00:51:44of a fellow policeman

00:51:45who was looking for it

00:51:46try not to attract

00:51:47right away

00:51:48the attention on him

00:51:49but the time

00:51:50that passes

00:51:50it's a lot

00:51:51too

00:51:52according to Capolungo

00:51:53and this

00:51:54It's one of the dark points

00:51:55that we begin to deal with

00:51:56Now

00:51:56together with the other guests

00:51:58that have reached us

00:51:59in particular

00:52:00I thank you for being

00:52:01here with us

00:52:01Daniele Paci

00:52:02deputy prosecutor

00:52:03of the Republic

00:52:04in Rimini

00:52:05and the former prefect

00:52:07Achille Serra

00:52:08Thank you for being with us

00:52:09because he will tell us

00:52:10a bit

00:52:11what he had found

00:52:12at the Bologna police headquarters

00:52:13during his inspections

00:52:15I'll start with her

00:52:15Dr. Paci

00:52:16because first

00:52:17I asked a question

00:52:18to the lawyer Camberini

00:52:19a little provocative

00:52:20I read his interviews

00:52:22and she

00:52:22let's say he treated

00:52:24this story

00:52:24for what

00:52:25for territorial jurisdiction

00:52:27let's say

00:52:27he returned

00:52:28in his district

00:52:29it tends a little

00:52:30to resize

00:52:31every attempt

00:52:34to widen

00:52:35the context

00:52:35I understood correctly

00:52:36I interpreted it well

00:52:38I would like to say that

00:52:39the prosecutor's office

00:52:40of the Republic

00:52:41from Rimini

00:52:41she didn't take care of it

00:52:43only

00:52:43of the Rimini events

00:52:45but first of all

00:52:46has identified

00:52:47and brought

00:52:48to the capture

00:52:49of these people

00:52:51the belief

00:52:52that I made for myself

00:52:54analyzing

00:52:55all 103 episodes

00:52:57crossing them

00:52:58with 200 hits

00:53:00what we did

00:53:01in the course

00:53:01of confessions

00:53:02of the Wise Men

00:53:02and that

00:53:04together with them

00:53:05if there weren't any

00:53:06other people

00:53:07I

00:53:09I can believe

00:53:10that someone

00:53:11could have

00:53:12the suspicion

00:53:13that Roberto Savi

00:53:15and the other policemen

00:53:19they did other jobs

00:53:20for the standard of living

00:53:21that they had

00:53:22for what they spent

00:53:24but I'm convinced

00:53:26that these suspicions

00:53:28have not been externalized

00:53:30who had this suspicion

00:53:32he kept it

00:53:33we have condemned

00:53:35in Rimini

00:53:35another policeman

00:53:36Why

00:53:37he was a friend

00:53:39by Fabio Savi

00:53:40and in the course

00:53:41of an interception

00:53:42he said

00:53:43it must be done

00:53:44a tip-off

00:53:45so someone else

00:53:46that he knew

00:53:47had this suspicion

00:53:49there was

00:53:49I believe that

00:53:51these suspicions

00:53:52if they were kept

00:53:53and that

00:53:54evidently

00:53:55Unfortunately

00:53:55he lengthened

00:53:58the times

00:53:58of the capture

00:53:59of the Savi brothers

00:54:00and their accomplices

00:54:01Certain

00:54:02there would have been

00:54:04some dark spots

00:54:05of the runways

00:54:06they would have left free

00:54:08the 1st gang

00:54:09white

00:54:09to spread panic

00:54:10in Emilia Romagna

00:54:11and in the Marche

00:54:12some apparent

00:54:14investigative omissions

00:54:15instead they would have

00:54:16increased

00:54:17the uncertainty

00:54:18on the real purposes

00:54:19of the Savi brothers

00:54:19and their accomplices

00:54:20let's see some of them

00:54:22before going

00:54:23to know

00:54:24up close

00:54:25a character

00:54:26very particular

00:54:32a turning point

00:54:33in the investigations

00:54:33on the band

00:54:34of the 1st

00:54:34white

00:54:35three people

00:54:36two men

00:54:36a woman

00:54:37they were arrested

00:54:38this afternoon

00:54:39in a hotel

00:54:39by Caetta

00:54:40in the province of Latina

00:54:41they know each other

00:54:42still a few details

00:54:43but it seems

00:54:44confirmed

00:54:44that the three

00:54:45they would have connections

00:54:46with the band

00:54:47of the 1st

00:54:47white

00:54:48in particular

00:54:49they would have participated

00:54:51at the last minute

00:54:52bloody actions

00:54:53criminals

00:54:54the research

00:54:55of the truth

00:54:55on the crimes

00:54:56of the 1st

00:54:57white

00:54:57for many years

00:54:58it was hindered

00:54:59from the numerous

00:55:00red herrings

00:55:04in the same

00:55:051987

00:55:06the first diversion

00:55:08so in fact

00:55:09it is called

00:55:09in the complaint

00:55:10presented

00:55:11to the prosecutor's office

00:55:11from Bologna

00:55:12the false one

00:55:13confession

00:55:14by Giordano Donati

00:55:15arrested

00:55:16confesses to the police

00:55:17and then to the magistrate

00:55:18of having accomplished

00:55:19some of the robberies

00:55:20of the Savi brothers

00:55:21calling into question

00:55:22two other accomplices

00:55:24who deny everything

00:55:25Donate then

00:55:26will retract

00:55:27but the three

00:55:27they will be condemned

00:55:32reconstructions

00:55:33and false testimonies

00:55:34they bring

00:55:35the investigations

00:55:35for the massacre

00:55:36of the carabinieri

00:55:37in the neighborhood

00:55:37Pillar of Bologna

00:55:38on some slopes

00:55:39wrong

00:55:40from a group

00:55:41of nomads

00:55:42to the criminal gang

00:55:43commanded by the former

00:55:44Carabiniere

00:55:45paratrooper

00:55:46Damiano Bechis

00:55:47it spins in circles

00:55:48they pass by

00:55:49four years

00:55:50when a presumed

00:55:51eyewitness

00:55:52with abundance

00:55:53of details

00:55:53addresses

00:55:55the investigation

00:55:55on a group

00:55:56of criminals

00:55:56of the neighborhood

00:55:57meat sauce

00:55:58it follows

00:55:59a major operation

00:56:00renamed

00:56:01Fifth Mafia

00:56:02191 arrests

00:56:03the two brothers

00:56:04Peter and William Sant'Agata

00:56:06and Marco Medda

00:56:07former right-hand man

00:56:08by Raffaele Cutolo

00:56:09they end up on trial

00:56:11with the accusation

00:56:11of having been part of

00:56:12of the murder commando

00:56:13there were

00:56:14there were many weapons

00:56:15weapons that

00:56:16a little too much

00:56:19sophisticated

00:56:22not available

00:56:26not very available

00:56:27in the armories

00:56:28Yes

00:56:29in the armories

00:56:31someone

00:56:32but not all

00:56:33Anyway

00:56:33there were others

00:56:34which would be

00:56:35to understand

00:56:37where do they come from?

00:56:37Certain

00:56:39in 1995

00:56:41will be declared

00:56:43strangers

00:56:43to the facts

00:56:44and exonerated

00:56:45from the confessions

00:56:46of the Savi brothers

00:56:47for us

00:56:48it was like

00:56:49see yourself open

00:56:50the gates of heaven

00:56:51with an immense light

00:56:52after two and a half years

00:56:54absurd

00:56:55that we are experiencing

00:56:56of investigations

00:56:57who accused

00:56:58my brothers

00:57:00and consequently

00:57:01they brought in

00:57:02Also

00:57:03Massimiliano Motta

00:57:06it seemed to us

00:57:07own

00:57:08a dream

00:57:14since the end of 1990

00:57:16in the actions

00:57:17of the white 1

00:57:18they are used

00:57:18Always

00:57:19two rifles

00:57:20assault

00:57:20Beretta

00:57:21AR70

00:57:22two of the Savi brothers

00:57:24legally own

00:57:26that kind of weapon

00:57:27employed for crimes

00:57:28but they never come

00:57:29checks done

00:57:33to heavy weapons

00:57:34the band

00:57:35applied

00:57:36of the retinas

00:57:36for lemons

00:57:37to collect

00:57:38the shells

00:57:39and reuse them

00:57:42the Savi brothers

00:57:44they are registered

00:57:45in the list

00:57:45of people

00:57:46that they bought

00:57:47bullets

00:57:48in the armory

00:57:48meat sauce

00:57:49of Via Volturno

00:57:50after the murder

00:57:51of the owner

00:57:52and his assistant

00:57:53the witnesses

00:57:53they make an identikit

00:57:54which portrays

00:57:55the two murderers

00:57:56but they won't be

00:57:57never identified

00:58:01the existence

00:58:02of a polygon

00:58:02clandestine

00:58:03in Bologna

00:58:04where several policemen

00:58:05they were practicing

00:58:06to shoot

00:58:06it comes several times

00:58:07reported

00:58:08to the police

00:58:09police

00:58:09and earthquakes

00:58:10but they won't come

00:58:11never done

00:58:12checks

00:58:14is it perhaps

00:58:16the epilogue

00:58:16more serious

00:58:17in September

00:58:181991

00:58:19a relationship

00:58:20of the weapon

00:58:20of the carabinieri

00:58:21from Pesaro

00:58:21indicates

00:58:22the brothers

00:58:22Savi

00:58:23as the possible

00:58:24killer

00:58:24of the White Uno

00:58:25the dossier

00:58:26is transmitted

00:58:27also at the Ministry of the Interior

00:58:28but it will remain

00:58:29closed

00:58:29in a drawer

00:58:35now I have to show you

00:58:36right away

00:58:37another contribution

00:58:38but first

00:58:39a question

00:58:39very fast

00:58:40to the lawyer Camberini

00:58:41if I tell her

00:58:42Domenico Macauda

00:58:43what would she ask him?

00:58:44Today?

00:58:45I jump on my chair

00:58:46if Domenico Macauda says

00:58:48for the...

00:58:49then stop

00:58:50stop

00:58:50I jump on my chair

00:58:51stop

00:58:51because I bring you

00:58:52immediately to Rosolini

00:58:53in the province of Syracuse

00:58:54where Claudialdi

00:58:56he met

00:58:56a former carabiniere

00:58:58which I imagine

00:58:59according to lawyer Camberini

00:59:01but not only

00:59:01he wouldn't tell

00:59:03everything he knows

00:59:04and his figure

00:59:05it seems to me

00:59:06a central figure

00:59:07she knows it has been reopened

00:59:09At that time?

00:59:10No

00:59:11you have to answer me like this

00:59:11I ask her some questions

00:59:12but it's not that I'm attacking her

00:59:14ninth

00:59:14I don't know

00:59:16ninth

00:59:16yes I just wanted to ask you two

00:59:17Certain

00:59:18of course

00:59:19I just wanted to ask you

00:59:19why you

00:59:20I move

00:59:21you threw them away

00:59:22ninth

00:59:23of course

00:59:23but I'm a serious person

00:59:24I'm from the raia

00:59:25It's Domenico Macauda

00:59:27Sicilian

00:59:28former brigadier

00:59:29of the operational core

00:59:30from Bologna

00:59:30at the time

00:59:31of the White Uno

00:59:32they were policemen

00:59:33those

00:59:34but in the investigations

00:59:35which they brought

00:59:36to the arrest

00:59:36of the Savi brothers

00:59:3737 years ago

00:59:38he ended up there too

00:59:39a policeman

00:59:40June 16th

00:59:42of '88

00:59:43two months later

00:59:44the murder

00:59:44of the carabinieri

00:59:45Cataldo Stasi

00:59:46and Umberto and Rio

00:59:47in Castelmaggiore

00:59:48Macauda

00:59:49he was arrested

00:59:50for slander

00:59:50and misdirection

00:59:51for having put

00:59:52the cartridge case

00:59:53of a bullet

00:59:53exploded

00:59:54from his gun

00:59:55on the car

00:59:56used by assassins

00:59:57and for having made it possible to find

00:59:59other identical shells

01:00:00in the house

01:00:01of some criminals

01:00:02Macauda

01:00:03he confessed

01:00:04to the diversion

01:00:05made to his word

01:00:05to register

01:00:07the turning point

01:00:07in the investigations

01:00:08it was never known

01:00:09other

01:00:10nor has it ever been discovered

01:00:11because at his house

01:00:12during a search

01:00:13was found

01:00:14a sketch

01:00:15of the couple

01:00:16of Massarente Street

01:00:16in Bologna

01:00:17then robbed

01:00:18from the Wise Men

01:00:19the following October

01:00:21convicted

01:00:21at 8 years old

01:00:22and 4 months

01:00:23struck off the force

01:00:24Domenico Macauda

01:00:25he remained in prison

01:00:26less than 4

01:00:27as a free man

01:00:28he came back to life

01:00:29in Sicily

01:00:30in Rosolini

01:00:30where we went

01:00:32to look for it

01:00:32no I wanted to ask her

01:00:34just two things

01:00:35because he had put

01:00:36that bullet

01:00:37behind

01:00:38the seat

01:00:39and then because they had

01:00:40found in his house

01:00:41the seedling

01:00:42of the couple

01:00:42by Massarenti

01:00:43before there was

01:00:44but think

01:00:46but when it was found

01:00:47I know it

01:00:48after 40 years

01:00:49I'm made here

01:00:50she didn't know

01:00:51so according to her

01:00:52could be

01:00:54a red herring

01:00:54against her

01:00:56I don't know this

01:00:57why they were found

01:00:59how to say

01:01:01what should I say

01:01:02they were found

01:01:03tickets

01:01:04strange things

01:01:05that of which she

01:01:05he didn't know anything

01:01:07No

01:01:07I didn't know now

01:01:08but I wanted to ask you

01:01:09one thing

01:01:09that bullet thing

01:01:11that she put

01:01:12why did he say

01:01:12that he wanted to be

01:01:13top of the class

01:01:14no in the sense

01:01:16at least that way

01:01:16my colleagues say

01:01:18thanks to the same

01:01:19a moment

01:01:20but she by chance

01:01:21he was resentful

01:01:22by the investigators

01:01:23these days

01:01:24this year

01:01:24never

01:01:25Antonio if I say

01:01:27that Macauda

01:01:27he is a central figure

01:01:29to try to understand

01:01:30something more

01:01:30of this story

01:01:32you're right

01:01:33why Macauda

01:01:34he's one of those characters

01:01:35which could have

01:01:36an involvement

01:01:38greater

01:01:39compared to that

01:01:39that we know

01:01:40now I see

01:01:41who did not respond

01:01:42but I in his place

01:01:43I would have done the same

01:01:44because after all

01:01:45compared to that

01:01:46what he did

01:01:47let there be clear evidence

01:01:50of misdirection

01:01:51he got a conviction

01:01:53so that

01:01:53he got a conviction

01:01:54he served

01:01:55his sentence

01:01:56but the suspicion

01:01:58is that he could have

01:01:59have a role

01:01:59most important

01:02:00and we are saying

01:02:02even that there are

01:02:03other people

01:02:04that could

01:02:04invite

01:02:05the Bologna prosecutor's office

01:02:06can't

01:02:07that does not leave again

01:02:08also from

01:02:09a character

01:02:10like Macauda

01:02:11that today

01:02:11let's say he dedicates himself

01:02:12to soft air

01:02:13use weapons

01:02:14those we say

01:02:15advanced toys

01:02:17I guess why

01:02:18I can no longer

01:02:18to be the owner

01:02:19of license

01:02:20of rifle carrying

01:02:23but

01:02:23In short

01:02:24many unknowns

01:02:25this map of Massarenti

01:02:26he says he didn't know

01:02:28Anyway

01:02:29it is documented

01:02:30found at his house

01:02:31at the time of the search

01:02:32which is carried out

01:02:34at the time of his arrest

01:02:35that is to say

01:02:36it's a document

01:02:38That

01:02:38he is not able

01:02:40to explain

01:02:40Certain

01:02:41he can't think

01:02:42that someone

01:02:43I put it there on purpose

01:02:44because he wishes him harm

01:02:45Doctor Paci

01:02:46I try to use

01:02:48let's say

01:02:48the head

01:02:49of the public prosecutor

01:02:51he's a character

01:02:52that attracts

01:02:52attention

01:02:53Meaning what

01:02:53it's a magnet

01:02:55for those who do their job

01:02:57a character

01:02:57like Macauda

01:02:58I would say yes

01:03:00I would like

01:03:00to underline something

01:03:02compared to this

01:03:04former brigadier

01:03:05of the carabinieri

01:03:05put a boss

01:03:07shoot

01:03:08with a

01:03:09own gun

01:03:10by order

01:03:11a boss

01:03:11that puts

01:03:12in the car

01:03:13which had been

01:03:14used

01:03:15for an action

01:03:16of fire

01:03:16in action

01:03:17of fire

01:03:17against the two policemen

01:03:19I the thing

01:03:20that I would like to put

01:03:21in evidence

01:03:22but

01:03:22Why

01:03:23In my opinion

01:03:24in this whole affair

01:03:25they divide themselves into parcels

01:03:26things

01:03:26Meaning what

01:03:27it seems that Macauda

01:03:28started

01:03:29to mislead

01:03:29after the murder

01:03:31of Stasi del Riù

01:03:32April 20th

01:03:33of '88

01:03:34and how instead?

01:03:36reading

01:03:36the sentence

01:03:38order

01:03:39of the judge

01:03:39instructor

01:03:39from Bologna

01:03:40emerge

01:03:42that Macauda

01:03:44he has two more

01:03:44charges

01:03:45for slander

01:03:46always connected

01:03:47to narcotics

01:03:49because he

01:03:50he was an officer

01:03:52of judicial police

01:03:52who was in charge

01:03:53of narcotics

01:03:54and had put

01:03:55in hypothesis

01:03:57of accusation

01:03:5845 grams

01:03:59of heroin

01:03:59October 16th

01:04:01of '87

01:04:02Therefore

01:04:03six months

01:04:04Before

01:04:04of the murder

01:04:06of Stasi del Riù

01:04:07and others

01:04:08500 grams

01:04:10November 26th

01:04:1187

01:04:12Therefore

01:04:14I translate

01:04:15this Macauda

01:04:17it is not

01:04:17a mislead

01:04:18of the White Uno

01:04:20he is a policeman

01:04:21apparently

01:04:22of extreme zeal

01:04:24that is given

01:04:25to do

01:04:25to get

01:04:27a commendation

01:04:28a round of applause

01:04:29of his colleagues

01:04:30hello beautiful

01:04:32let's hope they are few

01:04:33those who put

01:04:34actions from within

01:04:35but the real knot

01:04:37of this story

01:04:38is represented

01:04:38from the times

01:04:39that is Macauda

01:04:40he says that

01:04:41when the car

01:04:42after April 20th

01:04:4488

01:04:44it is kept

01:04:46from the police

01:04:47with seals

01:04:48pending

01:04:49of the arrival

01:04:49of the bomb disposal experts

01:04:50he went

01:04:52broke the seals

01:04:53and has

01:04:55threaded

01:04:56that bullet

01:04:57but give well

01:04:58it means that

01:04:58he had to do it

01:04:59in the round

01:05:0124 hours

01:05:0236 hours

01:05:02but nobody

01:05:03calls into question

01:05:05his expertise

01:05:05the expertise

01:05:06by Macauda

01:05:07no but I say it

01:05:08because in reality

01:05:09that bullet

01:05:10that he says

01:05:10of having put

01:05:11a brigadier

01:05:12of the carabinieri

01:05:13this faithful

01:05:14he says it was already there

01:05:15so he

01:05:16he wouldn't have put

01:05:17the bullet

01:05:18would have replaced it

01:05:19so this already

01:05:21he places it

01:05:22not like one

01:05:23that goes there

01:05:24to make a slander

01:05:25but as one

01:05:26that anyway

01:05:26hides evidence

01:05:27burn a test

01:05:28Prefect Serra

01:05:30I need

01:05:31at this point

01:05:32of his expertise

01:05:33let's say

01:05:34from staff

01:05:34who knows

01:05:35be the world

01:05:36of the institutions

01:05:37I don't know

01:05:38absolutely

01:05:39Nothing

01:05:39of the investigation

01:05:41why not?

01:05:42I could do

01:05:43I couldn't

01:05:44investigate

01:05:44knows the world

01:05:45of the institutions

01:05:46but

01:05:48he knows

01:05:49what can

01:05:50tilt

01:05:51the relationship

01:05:51of trust

01:05:52between institutions

01:05:54and citizens

01:05:55I have to do

01:05:57two considerations

01:05:58the first

01:05:59I'm used to it

01:06:00to work

01:06:01with your feet

01:06:02on the ground

01:06:03and I share

01:06:05perfectly

01:06:06I think that too

01:06:06Dr. Paci

01:06:07is

01:06:08you think like me

01:06:09then he will be able to help me

01:06:10contradict

01:06:11the great

01:06:13general

01:06:14of the carabinieri

01:06:15who said

01:06:17Attention

01:06:18to the insinuations

01:06:18easy

01:06:19why don't they take us?

01:06:21anywhere

01:06:23and then

01:06:24the second

01:06:24consideration

01:06:25Nobody

01:06:26of those present

01:06:28can imagine

01:06:29What

01:06:30I found

01:06:31in my

01:06:32investigation

01:06:33internal

01:06:34within

01:06:35of the police headquarters

01:06:36what was it

01:06:37that police station

01:06:37it wasn't a police station

01:06:39in the sense that

01:06:42there was chaos

01:06:43total

01:06:44that's why

01:06:45I'm from

01:06:46I think so

01:06:47Like this

01:06:47I do not believe

01:06:49to the

01:06:50misdirection

01:06:51which is a word

01:06:51what it seems to me

01:06:52That

01:06:52what kind

01:06:53of chaos

01:06:54the chaos

01:06:55it couldn't be done

01:06:56investigate

01:06:56meanwhile

01:06:57an inability

01:06:58total

01:06:59in officials

01:07:00inability

01:07:01total

01:07:01Then

01:07:03a police commissioner

01:07:04on the eve

01:07:05of the pension

01:07:06that was coming

01:07:07somehow

01:07:08blackmailed

01:07:09let's talk to each other

01:07:10clear

01:07:10Why

01:07:11Why

01:07:13it was discovered

01:07:14which had been

01:07:15in a

01:07:16in an Agip

01:07:17in a motel

01:07:18with a lady

01:07:20who was not the wife

01:07:22and of this

01:07:24they had made some

01:07:25forces

01:07:26Force

01:07:27the agents

01:07:29it couldn't be done

01:07:30to transfer a man

01:07:32on one side

01:07:32to the other

01:07:33if they didn't want to

01:07:34the unions

01:07:36And

01:07:37I

01:07:38in my

01:07:38career

01:07:39I have done

01:07:40all roles

01:07:41head of the mobile unit

01:07:42head of Dicos

01:07:42with the unions

01:07:43we had

01:07:44contrasts

01:07:45constants

01:07:46but I respect

01:07:47mutual

01:07:48mutual respect

01:07:49because if I

01:07:50I was saying something

01:07:51and I was wrong

01:07:52I admitted it

01:07:53and vice versa

01:07:53he was a representative

01:07:55of the SULP

01:07:56and of the SAB

01:07:56there

01:07:58they commanded

01:07:59the unions

01:08:00Savi is moved

01:08:02he is taken out

01:08:04from the patrol cars

01:08:04Savi returns

01:08:06to the patrol cars

01:08:09the agents outside

01:08:12I remember

01:08:13the episode

01:08:15of an agent

01:08:16of an agent

01:08:17woman

01:08:17who were secluded

01:08:18behind a hedge

01:08:19instead of

01:08:20look at the city

01:08:22I remember

01:08:23of a

01:08:24steering wheel

01:08:25who was sleeping

01:08:26in the barracks

01:08:27instead of

01:08:28look at the city

01:08:29the inability

01:08:31total

01:08:32in all this

01:08:33the boss

01:08:34of the mobile

01:08:34and the boss

01:08:35of the power plant

01:08:36operational

01:08:37they were arguing

01:08:38constantly

01:08:39I arrive

01:08:40at a certain point

01:08:40moment

01:08:41the doctor

01:08:42Zonno

01:08:42as a boss

01:08:43of the mobile

01:08:44he had to run away

01:08:46I know

01:08:46Zonno

01:08:47for having had it

01:08:48with me

01:08:48when I was directing

01:08:49the central service

01:08:50where did it start?

01:08:52the policemen

01:08:53for good

01:08:54which I imagine they were

01:08:55the majority

01:08:56how they take

01:08:57the upper hand

01:08:58to straighten out

01:08:59this boat

01:08:59I'll say it right away

01:09:00but I want to clarify

01:09:01that Dr. Zonno

01:09:02which had to

01:09:03to go away

01:09:04had to

01:09:04why did they do it to him

01:09:05the war

01:09:06within

01:09:06with a police commissioner

01:09:08that he didn't take

01:09:08the position

01:09:09he is one of the officials

01:09:11better

01:09:14of the police

01:09:15I had it with me

01:09:17to the central service

01:09:18operating

01:09:19when it takes shape

01:09:21keep in mind

01:09:22that then this story

01:09:23the police solves it

01:09:26takes shape

01:09:27when in Bologna

01:09:29Police Commissioner Gianni arrives

01:09:30former officer

01:09:32man of great

01:09:34moral rectitude

01:09:36which began

01:09:39to make changes

01:09:40that he wanted

01:09:41those who were useful

01:09:42speaking with the ministry

01:09:44at that moment

01:09:45I was the deputy chief

01:09:46of the police

01:09:46and then

01:09:47I was doing this investigation

01:09:49by order

01:09:50by Minister Maroni

01:09:52man of great

01:09:54culture

01:09:55him too

01:09:55who I respect a lot

01:09:56and Gianni

01:09:59he put things right

01:10:00you're the boss

01:10:02of the mobile

01:10:03you're the boss

01:10:03of the operations center

01:10:05the head of the operations center

01:10:08who felt burned

01:10:09because he wanted to be

01:10:10the head of the mobile unit

01:10:11he had done

01:10:13investigations

01:10:14to men

01:10:14of the flying squads

01:10:15terrible thing

01:10:17he tells him

01:10:18one who directed

01:10:20flying

01:10:20mobile teams

01:10:22but now

01:10:22I do them

01:10:23listen

01:10:24the words

01:10:24of a person

01:10:26who sees us

01:10:27Instead

01:10:28convinced

01:10:29that there is

01:10:30a drawing

01:10:31bigger

01:10:31I'm referring to

01:10:32to Dr. Giovanni Spivosa

01:10:34she has an idea

01:10:35of ignorance

01:10:36that they had

01:10:37the wise men

01:10:37and painted eyes

01:10:39ignorance

01:10:40total

01:10:41there is no doubt

01:10:42who uses it

01:10:43of people like this

01:10:45but they are the people

01:10:46useful

01:10:46for which

01:10:47let's say

01:10:47from which

01:10:48to gain an advantage

01:10:50if you have an instrument

01:10:51to use

01:10:52this tool

01:10:52it is undivided

01:10:53it's better

01:10:54a policeman

01:10:55as she says

01:10:55ignorant

01:10:56Therefore

01:10:56who does it

01:10:57a strategy

01:10:59USA

01:11:00the brothers

01:11:00wise men

01:11:01which are two

01:11:02morons

01:11:03the useful idiots

01:11:05but what can they

01:11:06historically

01:11:07they gave

01:11:08of the advantages

01:11:09but

01:11:09but they are needed

01:11:11the evidence

01:11:11I was throwing

01:11:12the reflections

01:11:14of the doctor

01:11:14John Spivosa

01:11:15before the court

01:11:16from Bologna

01:11:17he supported

01:11:18the accusation

01:11:19at the trial

01:11:19on crimes

01:11:20of the White Uno

01:11:20on one side

01:11:21of them

01:11:22not all

01:11:23his beliefs

01:11:24I have to tell you this

01:11:24in advance

01:11:25they find

01:11:26a sequel

01:11:27compact

01:11:28but certainly

01:11:28we can sign him up

01:11:29to the group

01:11:30of those who believe

01:11:31clear

01:11:32all those signs

01:11:33that would bind

01:11:34the events

01:11:34of the White Uno

01:11:35to a strategy

01:11:36wider

01:11:37which was aiming

01:11:38to destabilize

01:11:39the institutions

01:11:40of the Republic

01:11:41we feel it

01:11:42and then we comment

01:11:42his words

01:11:44the White Uno

01:11:47is born

01:11:48even before

01:11:50of the phalacia

01:11:51army

01:11:51the project

01:11:53armed phalanx

01:11:54it's a project

01:11:55that arrives

01:11:55at the conclusion

01:11:56of a long journey

01:11:58it's a cloudy one

01:12:01alliance of forces

01:12:03the definition

01:12:04belongs

01:12:05to the president

01:12:06of the council

01:12:07Carlo Azzedio Ciampi

01:12:08which has as its objective

01:12:11that

01:12:12of deconstruction

01:12:13the destabilization

01:12:16of the State

01:12:18they are terrorists

01:12:20which

01:12:21they believe

01:12:22That

01:12:23there may be

01:12:24an alliance

01:12:25among terrorists

01:12:26right-wing

01:12:27and terrorists

01:12:28left

01:12:28and it is precisely

01:12:30This

01:12:30which is realized

01:12:31within

01:12:32of the armed phalanx

01:12:34and inside

01:12:35of this alliance

01:12:37there is an obvious one

01:12:38direction

01:12:39of the secret services

01:12:43the armed phalanx

01:12:46anticipa

01:12:47claims

01:12:48explains

01:12:49and reiterates

01:12:51many times

01:12:52the crimes

01:12:52of the UNO

01:12:53white

01:12:54how it works

01:12:55of their action

01:12:57I discovered it

01:12:58two years ago

01:12:59I was on the front line

01:13:00of the processes

01:13:01these press releases to me

01:13:03he never had them

01:13:04show yourself no one

01:13:05but I want to say

01:13:07which is not my problem

01:13:09I

01:13:11I think

01:13:12On the contrary

01:13:13I feel like saying

01:13:14I'm sure

01:13:15that no one

01:13:16he showed it

01:13:17to the judges of Caltanissetta

01:13:19who were involved

01:13:20of the massacres

01:13:21of Via D'Amelio

01:13:22and of Capaci

01:13:23the attack

01:13:24to Maurizio Costanzo

01:13:26the attack

01:13:27of Via De Giorgofili

01:13:28the attack

01:13:29of Palestro Street

01:13:30the attack

01:13:31in San Giovanni

01:13:31and Lateran

01:13:32in San Giorgio

01:13:33at Bellavro

01:13:33they are all

01:13:34anticipated

01:13:36claimed

01:13:37and then

01:13:38explain yourself

01:13:40from the armed phalanx

01:13:41in the context

01:13:43in the context

01:13:45of their

01:13:45logic

01:13:46terrorist

01:13:47until August 29th

01:13:49of 1991

01:13:51the murders

01:13:53continue

01:13:54of small managers

01:13:55of distributors

01:13:56of gasoline

01:13:57they arrive

01:13:58two

01:13:58Three

01:13:59four

01:13:59bandits

01:14:00they shoot him

01:14:01they leave

01:14:01the collection

01:14:02on the ground

01:14:03Why

01:14:03they don't take it

01:14:04neither

01:14:05the collection

01:14:06On the contrary

01:14:07in one case

01:14:07they also add

01:14:09some more money

01:14:10and then

01:14:11they're leaving

01:14:12away

01:14:13here is one

01:14:14spawn river

01:14:15of pain

01:14:16that screams

01:14:17to know

01:14:18Why

01:14:19we were killed

01:14:22then on August 29th

01:14:251991

01:14:26the armed phalanx

01:14:28he says he's disarming

01:14:29the commando that acted

01:14:32in Emilia Romagna

01:14:33from that moment on

01:14:34signed terrorism

01:14:371 white

01:14:38it ends

01:14:39will resume with different forms

01:14:41two years later

01:14:42in 93

01:14:43but at that moment

01:14:45it ends

01:14:46and the armed phalanx

01:14:47will explain

01:14:48because it's over

01:14:50we will not centralize

01:14:52the fight

01:14:53in Emilia Romagna

01:14:54because otherwise

01:14:56it's understood

01:14:57that we are not

01:14:59of the simple ones

01:15:00robbers

01:15:01that doubt

01:15:02robbers or terrorists

01:15:04that doubt

01:15:05racists or terrorists

01:15:08that doubt

01:15:09if we insist

01:15:11it reveals itself

01:15:12and then

01:15:14we hit

01:15:15from other parts

01:15:17they commit dozens of murders

01:15:18which escapes

01:15:19unity

01:15:20and the armed phalanx

01:15:22he claims them

01:15:23saying

01:15:24that proceed

01:15:25for lines of approach

01:15:27underwater

01:15:28hidden

01:15:29that understand each other

01:15:30barely

01:15:31when it comes out

01:15:33to the discovery

01:15:34when he enlists

01:15:36inside it

01:15:37our thing

01:15:38and our thing

01:15:40will commit massacres

01:15:41of capable

01:15:42away from better

01:15:43and those incontinent

01:15:45it's clear that

01:15:47terrorism

01:15:48from that moment on

01:15:49just absolute blindness

01:15:51can continue

01:15:52to think

01:15:53to a speech

01:15:54of the mafia

01:15:55of evil mafiosi

01:15:57and some spies

01:15:58infidels

01:15:59let me quote

01:16:01let me quote

01:16:01the president

01:16:01Scalfaro

01:16:02at the time

01:16:04president

01:16:04of the republic

01:16:06in one of his

01:16:06famous speech

01:16:08the oldest ones

01:16:09they will remember it

01:16:11I'm not in it

01:16:12he will say

01:16:12the president will say

01:16:14Scalfaro

01:16:15Nobody

01:16:16it can stay

01:16:18to watch

01:16:19in front of

01:16:20to this attempt

01:16:21of slow

01:16:22destruction

01:16:23of the State

01:16:24thinking

01:16:25to be out of it

01:16:27or we are

01:16:28capable

01:16:29to react

01:16:30considering

01:16:32crime

01:16:32the crime

01:16:33but defending

01:16:34to the bitter end

01:16:36and the innocents

01:16:38and ours

01:16:40institutions

01:16:41republicans

01:16:42or we condemn

01:16:44all the people

01:16:45and ourselves

01:16:46to assist

01:16:48to this

01:16:49attack

01:16:50methodical

01:16:51fatal

01:16:52to life

01:16:54and at work

01:16:54of each organ

01:16:56essential

01:16:57for the solidity

01:16:58of the State

01:16:59democratic

01:17:01to this

01:17:03game

01:17:03to the massacre

01:17:04I

01:17:05I'm not into it

01:17:08I

01:17:09I feel

01:17:10the duty

01:17:10not to be there

01:17:12and to give

01:17:13the alarm

01:17:14what for?

01:17:16it doesn't fit

01:17:16to a work

01:17:17of destruction

01:17:19of the State

01:17:20and he will say

01:17:21let's do it

01:17:23justice

01:17:24towards

01:17:26towards

01:17:27of who committed

01:17:29these serious

01:17:30crimes

01:17:31but it doesn't

01:17:33rich damage

01:17:34to the institutions

01:17:35and to the

01:17:36republic

01:17:38it's a

01:17:40away

01:17:41it's a

01:17:42compromise route

01:17:45the armed phalanx

01:17:47yes it was

01:17:48insinuated

01:17:49in ganglia

01:17:50of the administration

01:17:51important

01:17:52they say

01:17:53to be

01:17:54present

01:17:55in the armed forces

01:17:56and I think

01:17:57that it is really

01:17:58Like this

01:17:58at a certain point

01:18:00point

01:18:00at a certain point

01:18:02the boss

01:18:03of the police

01:18:04in Parisi

01:18:04he reassures himself

01:18:06the president

01:18:06Scalfaro

01:18:07saying

01:18:08the armed forces

01:18:10there are still

01:18:11faithful

01:18:12but how?

01:18:13there is a need

01:18:14to give

01:18:14a reassurance

01:18:15of this type

01:18:16in July

01:18:18of 93

01:18:18and further on

01:18:20I am

01:18:21still faithful

01:18:22and the president

01:18:24Scalfaro

01:18:25defends

01:18:27the unit

01:18:27national

01:18:28it's a street

01:18:30of compromise

01:18:31I say

01:18:31who is right

01:18:32because he

01:18:33he is the president

01:18:34of the Republic

01:18:35even if they are not

01:18:36agree

01:18:37but the president

01:18:38of the Republic

01:18:40it's him

01:18:40let's do it

01:18:41what

01:18:41he says

01:18:42but now I am

01:18:43past

01:18:4330 years old

01:18:44now I am

01:18:45past

01:18:4530 years old

01:18:46those reasons

01:18:47of State

01:18:47they no longer exist

01:18:48they no longer exist

01:18:50reasons of state

01:18:51that they can

01:18:52impede

01:18:52to turn on

01:18:53every light

01:18:54possible

01:18:54on history

01:18:55of the One

01:18:56White

01:18:56this is at least

01:18:57the thought

01:18:58by John

01:18:59Spinosa

01:19:00Doctor Paci

01:19:01something

01:19:01he didn't convince her

01:19:03of this painting

01:19:04let's say so

01:19:05that the armed phalanx

01:19:07he claimed

01:19:08of everything

01:19:09but for the Uno

01:19:09White

01:19:10he claimed

01:19:107 episodes

01:19:12he said

01:19:13as he recalled

01:19:14Dr. Spinosa

01:19:16he said

01:19:18that the command

01:19:19phalangist

01:19:19shaking

01:19:20Saint Mauro Pascoli

01:19:21it was put

01:19:22for now

01:19:22in disarmament

01:19:23he was referring to

01:19:25on August 18th

01:19:2691

01:19:27when they were

01:19:28were killed

01:19:29precisely

01:19:29in San Mauro Mare

01:19:30two citizens

01:19:32Senegalese

01:19:33Babu

01:19:33Ceic

01:19:34and Indians

01:19:34Malik

01:19:35it's absolutely not

01:19:36True

01:19:37which was put

01:19:37in disarmament

01:19:38he did not use

01:19:40an attitude

01:19:41terrorist

01:19:42so much so that it is true

01:19:42what ten days

01:19:43After

01:19:44August 28th

01:19:45of 1991

01:19:47they shot

01:19:48the wise men

01:19:49to two policemen

01:19:50bombini and cardinals

01:19:51after a robbery

01:19:52commissioned in Pesaro

01:19:53the armed phalanx

01:19:55he definitely has

01:19:57wrong

01:19:58speaking

01:19:59of the facts

01:20:00of the one white

01:20:01When

01:20:01in reference

01:20:02to the wounding

01:20:03of a banker

01:20:04Edward Merendi

01:20:06August 10th

01:20:0692

01:20:07he said

01:20:08That

01:20:08that weapon

01:20:09it wasn't

01:20:10a weapon

01:20:10that could

01:20:12to be attributed

01:20:14to the band

01:20:15of the one white

01:20:16vice versa

01:20:17that weapon

01:20:18who hurt

01:20:18Snacks

01:20:19it was one of the two

01:20:21pistols

01:20:21robbed

01:20:22on Volturna Street

01:20:23used

01:20:23and found again

01:20:24on Fabio Saga

01:20:25Therefore

01:20:26the armed phalanx

01:20:27there was

01:20:28a fact-checking work

01:20:30by Dr. Paci

01:20:31very precise

01:20:32the question

01:20:33what I do is this

01:20:34the armed phalanx

01:20:38it seems a bit evanescent

01:20:39the presence

01:20:40of this acronym

01:20:42but also

01:20:42its existence

01:20:44I listened

01:20:46carefully

01:20:46Dr. Spinosa

01:20:47and I make an observation

01:20:48of method

01:20:48Dr. Spinosa

01:20:49he was the protagonist

01:20:50of all

01:20:51the dazzles

01:20:52judicial

01:20:53who have condemned

01:20:55or had him condemned

01:20:56or tried to condemn

01:20:57innocent people

01:20:59before the discovery

01:21:00of the band

01:21:00of the one white

01:21:01and then

01:21:01I think that underneath

01:21:02this profile

01:21:03he would have a duty

01:21:05of greater caution

01:21:08in exposing oneself

01:21:09to present his theses

01:21:10but beyond this

01:21:11we consider it

01:21:12a form of repentance

01:21:13No

01:21:13I think

01:21:14no but I say

01:21:15I think this

01:21:16because I also think

01:21:16that the references

01:21:18to the armed phalanx

01:21:19that there are still

01:21:20the armed phalanx

01:21:20it's not a journalistic invention

01:21:22there are two processes

01:21:24Calabrian court of law

01:21:25Court of Appeal of Calabria

01:21:26they are laws and those sentences

01:21:28he notices judicial reconstructions

01:21:30very significant

01:21:31it's something more than tangible

01:21:32it's something more than tangible

01:21:33from this to do

01:21:34to put in a single pot

01:21:36the armed phalanx

01:21:38the crimes of Rinno Bianca

01:21:39the references

01:21:41to the massacres

01:21:42of 92

01:21:43if everything is an armed phalanx

01:21:45nothing is an armed phalanx

01:21:46this frankly

01:21:47he leaves me for near

01:21:48perfect Serra

01:21:49I don't follow theorems

01:21:51but I'm still down to earth

01:21:53two clarifications

01:21:54no one had the chance

01:21:57to question

01:21:58and feel

01:21:58men of the Red Brigades

01:22:00men of the Black Brigades

01:22:01I assure you that Savi

01:22:03it's a whole other thing

01:22:04second thing

01:22:05I want to clarify

01:22:06that Maroni

01:22:07yes it's true

01:22:08which moved

01:22:09the top of the system

01:22:11due to incapacity

01:22:13certainly not

01:22:13for connection

01:22:17with all this history

01:22:19Bologna was not investigated

01:22:22and not investigating

01:22:24and this was the heart of the problem

01:22:25Antonio

01:22:26to conclude

01:22:28you expect surprises

01:22:29from the Bologna investigation?

01:22:31I expect surprises

01:22:32at the moment in which

01:22:33the Bologna prosecutor's office

01:22:35will really decide

01:22:36to act

01:22:37the problem is

01:22:38who to hear

01:22:39Why

01:22:40from my point of view

01:22:42it is clear that there are

01:22:42other responsibilities

01:22:44not identified

01:22:45we can say that

01:22:45who is curious

01:22:46to this story

01:22:47listening to the podcast

01:22:48by Antonio Iovane

01:22:50one white

01:22:51the novel

01:22:52criminal from Emilia Romagna

01:22:53could answer

01:22:54to this question

01:22:56I thank Dr. Paci

01:22:57for being with us

01:22:58Prefect Achille Serra

01:22:59Lawyer Gamberini

01:23:00Now

01:23:00what awaits us

01:23:01next Wednesday?

01:23:03in 2004

01:23:04I'll tell you something

01:23:05I lost 5 million

01:23:06per day

01:23:06I was traveling around the world

01:23:08the month of July

01:23:08his people come to Italy

01:23:09I go

01:23:10in the office in August

01:23:12there was no one

01:23:155 million per day

01:23:17and the people

01:23:18they are hell

01:23:21but from what?

01:23:23they defined it

01:23:25uncomfortable

01:23:25hard

01:23:26skilled

01:23:27and divisive

01:23:28who he really was

01:23:29Sergio Marchionne?

01:23:30a visionary

01:23:31unknown

01:23:32from a country

01:23:33dedicated to Biura

01:23:34or a manager

01:23:35from the hidden Lego

01:23:36under a black sweater?

01:23:37but above all

01:23:39in the Trump era

01:23:40and of the Dazzi

01:23:41what remains

01:23:41of the example

01:23:42of the manager

01:23:43Italian-Canadian

01:23:44what he wanted to do

01:23:45of Fiat

01:23:45a global company?

01:23:47at the border line

01:23:49let's tell his story

01:23:50who he frequented it with

01:23:51up close

01:23:57Sergio Marchionne

01:23:58so next Wednesday

01:23:59here at the border line

01:24:01I remind you that you can

01:24:02review on RaiPlay

01:24:03and listen again

01:24:04on RaiPlay Sound

01:24:05this episode

01:24:06dedicated to history

01:24:07of the White Uno

01:24:08let's read

01:24:09all your comments

01:24:11criticisms

01:24:11reports

01:24:12to our email

01:24:13borderline

01:24:14chiocciolarai.it

01:24:15Now

01:24:16stay on Rai2

01:24:17why is Monica Setta there?

01:24:18with his

01:24:19Women's Stories

01:24:20at the crossroads

01:24:20we'll see each other

01:24:21next Wednesday

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