Garlasco: Verità e Bugie | Linea di confine 2025 - Video Dailymotion

DivinumCrime

Per il finale di stagione, Antonino Montelone ripercorre la storia dell'omicidio di #ChiaraPoggi, il cui delitto, fino ad oggi, vede un solo colpevole: il fidanzato della vittima, #AlbertoStasi. Dopo 18 anni di battaglie giudiziarie, l'11 marzo del 2025 la Procura di Pavia ha riaperto il caso. Inoltre, si racconta la misteriosa morte di David Rossi, capo della comunicazione della Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena, avvenuta nel 2013: quello di Rossi è stato davvero un suicidio o questa storia nasconde un'altra verità? Ospiti in studio la figlia di David Rossi, Carolina Orlandi; il Presidente della Commissione Parlamentare sulla morte del manager di MPS, Gianluca Vinci; l'ex procuratore di Milano ed ex Vicepresidente della Corte Penale Internazionale, Cuno Tarfusser, e il professore emerito di Procedura Penale all'Università di Milano, Ennio Amodio.  Linea di confine del 02_07_2025 - Video - RaiPlay  #Garlasco #Poggi #Stasi #Sempio #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime

Transcript

00:00:20Good evening, welcome to Border Line.

00:00:23David Rossi, let's talk about him again at the beginning of this episode because there is some important news about the death of his ex

00:00:32head of communications at Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena arrived in recent days and with some limited exceptions

00:00:39it went a bit unnoticed.

00:00:42Before going into details, let me greet the guests of this segment, Gianluca Vinci, president of the parliamentary commission of inquiry

00:00:51which is investigating the circumstances surrounding David Rossi's death and is connected from Siena to Carolina Orlandi, David's daughter.

00:01:00Good evening Carolina.

00:01:02Good evening to all of you.

00:01:03Now, this news has to do with the video of the fall, that is, the information that the video of the fall

00:01:13of David Rossi has given us to date.

00:01:16An expert report from the Carabinieri RIS has arrived that could change the way we read this story, somewhat, or rather radically.

00:01:28Let's watch the video so we can start to get into the topic.

00:01:45It's been 12 years since David died, and I've been asking for the truth for a third of my life.

00:01:53How is it possible that David has all these scratches and wounds on his face, groin, and forearm?

00:02:04David has this bruise, with fingers almost on his forearm, a sign of pressure, no one has ever explained to us yet

00:02:11actually what happened.

00:02:14How is it possible that David Rossi, who falls in this unusual way, facing the wall, could suffer injuries?

00:02:22to the face and signs of grabbing like these?

00:02:32Davide Rossi, I am certain that he fell from that window, not voluntarily and not spontaneously.

00:02:41Because one thing that everyone should have the courage to say is that all medical examiners, except the first

00:02:48who had not seen the video, which had not been shown to him, they say that the wounds on his face are

00:02:53incompatible with the fall.

00:03:00Davide Rossi's wrist has an imprint of the case.

00:03:07The case of the watch worn by Davide Rossi hurts his wrist, as does the strap. This is evidence of

00:03:15a violent grab?

00:03:16Those who are skeptical think differently.

00:03:20It is said that the wound is consistent with the impact on the ground when Davide fell with the watch.

00:03:31True, it would be compatible. Too bad the watch, case and strap, come off from both doors.

00:03:44To detach the two doors, a force had to be applied from the lower part of the strap, which detached that case.

00:03:56from the strap.

00:04:01Andrevo Levinci, let's explain to the public that follows us what is the new thing that has arrived and why it is considered

00:04:10of no secondary importance.

00:04:13I'd say there are two new developments. First, about a month ago our forensic medical consultant, Robby Manghi, left.

00:04:20saying that the injury, the bruised wrist, is not compatible with a fall even from 15 meters.

00:04:27At that point we did a more in-depth analysis with Iris from Rome to see if we could see something in

00:04:33more

00:04:33on the clock at the time of the fall. At that point, making enlargements, they are very careful,

00:04:40It was a very meticulous job, it turned out that the watch was not on Davide's wrist at that time

00:04:46Rossi.

00:04:47That moment is the moment of the fall. The moment David's body hits the pavement of Vigo.

00:04:53of Montepio.

00:04:54That's right, the case fell separately just before the body itself.

00:04:59That is, it does not come off the wrist as a result of the fall, but David's wrist is already without the watch.

00:05:05It already has no watch. This, being very blurry on the video, cannot be seen, but you can see the case that

00:05:10falls before the body

00:05:12and then it flies away and you can also spot the strap, which is black, in flight, already next to it

00:05:18to David's shoe.

00:05:19So the case is two meters away from the strap, so they have already fallen separately in flight.

00:05:26So, I had the chance to read this part, I guess it's a preliminary report,

00:05:31this one from the Carabinieri race, which attributes a certain degree of probability to the hypothesis you are describing to me.

00:05:38That is, it does not give him 100% certainty, also because, let's face it,

00:05:44The footage is not of high enough quality to be processed in much depth.

00:05:51Right?

00:05:51From what we have been provided, the degree of safety is there when it falls into a

00:05:57place the alley

00:05:58which is perfectly free of any other, say, rubbish or fallen objects,

00:06:04in the sense that the box is found exactly where it is seen splashing in the video

00:06:09and the strap is found exactly next to the foot where in the video with the enlargement

00:06:14you can see the strap is falling off.

00:06:16So if it was in any other situation, on any road with debris or anything,

00:06:23but since it is an absolutely stone alley, clean,

00:06:28with only those two objects found exactly where seen in the video,

00:06:31let's say that the expert report is quite clear in saying that it is not a question of video problems,

00:06:41of the film or something else, but that those two objects fell exactly there.

00:06:45Even the strap, besides being visible, leaves its shadow projected on the bucket,

00:06:52being in flight about twenty centimeters above the ground.

00:06:55Let's say that an exceptional job was done by the RIS in Rome, led by Lieutenant Colonel Gregori.

00:07:02Carolina Orlandi, this news is quite sensational,

00:07:08because up until today we were all focused on that flash at 8.11pm in the video,

00:07:16with then the necessary tare of 16 minutes behind,

00:07:20which seemed to be the clock,

00:07:23Today, however, we have information that anticipates the moment the clock arrives on the fence

00:07:29and the fact is added, this circumstance which is unprecedented until now,

00:07:34that is, David did not have his watch on his wrist at the time he fell.

00:07:41Yes, first of all I would like to take this opportunity to thank President Vinci.

00:07:45for the courage that the Commission is having

00:07:47and the entire Commission obviously for the work they are doing.

00:07:50What they have demonstrated is very important,

00:07:53We have been arguing for 12 years that the clock fell at a different time than David's body.

00:07:59The Commission is demonstrating, has demonstrated that not only is this the case,

00:08:03but this must be combined with another great result achieved by the Commission chaired by Vinci,

00:08:10that is, the marks on David's wrist, so those two semicircles,

00:08:14that wound that David has on his wrist is not only not compatible with the fall,

00:08:17but it suggests a sign of grasping.

00:08:19These two reports together clearly make us think what we have always maintained,

00:08:23that is, David was beaten before falling.

00:08:26Listen, Vinci, up until now this was a hypothesis put forward very quietly by the lawyers,

00:08:34because then every time they tried to ask for a formal reopening of the investigations

00:08:39they found a door closed in their faces,

00:08:41but we heard the hypothesis that the lawyer Pirani was saying before in the video,

00:08:46David is grabbed. It is the force of that grab that imprints the shape of the chest on David's wrist.

00:08:55'clock

00:08:56And not the impact? Does it completely change the way you read this story?

00:09:01Let's say that the two elements that I just gave you are clear on the fact that it cannot have been the

00:09:07fall

00:09:07and so David fell already with that mark imprinted on him.

00:09:11I won't say anything in advance now because there will be a more in-depth analysis of the appraisal in September,

00:09:16tests will be carried out with a mannequin in Milan inside a specialized company,

00:09:21in short, something very special,

00:09:23and also with the reconstruction of the window transported to those places

00:09:26to be able to take photographs and perform various grip, holding and release tests.

00:09:32A real mannequin or a virtual mannequin?

00:09:34A real 80kg dummy from a company specializing in crash tests.

00:09:39No, this question I'm asking you seems stupid,

00:09:42but in reality up until now every time an attempt has been made to do a test,

00:09:46a fall test, that is, reproducing the circumstances of the fall

00:09:50with a mannequin that reproduced the likeness of Davide Rossi,

00:09:55in the end, the virtual solution was always suddenly chosen,

00:09:59so-called electronics.

00:10:01Have you never been able to do this with the physical mannequin?

00:10:04However, to overcome this problem which is also partly practical,

00:10:09yes of course it appears, it appears to everyone,

00:10:11but for me an evolution in this case,

00:10:17let's say that the facts are proving me right,

00:10:18both from the assessment of the injuries on the wrist.

00:10:21So the tests that will be done,

00:10:23they will be made not so much on the fall, modality and heights,

00:10:28but on the clock detachment, then it will not be played.

00:10:32That is, will you put a watch on the mannequin?

00:10:33We have several, already purchased.

00:10:36For the first time the Commission has acquired the original clock

00:10:39from the family, she managed to get back some identical watches,

00:10:43because the watch was special,

00:10:44it was a sector with a casio strap, very dated,

00:10:48and so we managed, despite a thousand difficulties, to find several specimens,

00:10:52and these will be used to do various detachment tests,

00:10:55in collaboration also with the forensic doctor Manghi,

00:10:58which provided a type of artificial skin,

00:11:01let's say, to be placed on the mannequin,

00:11:04for anyone who is as believable as possible.

00:11:06Several detachment tests will be carried out,

00:11:07not so much on the backward fall,

00:11:10how it fell,

00:11:11but just how it can be detached,

00:11:13the injuries as they may have been caused,

00:11:15because I personally think that place and that clock

00:11:19they have already given many clues,

00:11:21maybe they'll give some more too.

00:11:22Listen, how many months have you been chairing this commission?

00:11:28Just over a year.

00:11:29What idea did you get,

00:11:31not of merit,

00:11:32but what about what surrounds it?

00:11:36Let's say that it is certainly still a very sensitive issue,

00:11:41very experienced,

00:11:42there is also a kind of fan base

00:11:46between those who are for and against the hypothesis of suicide and homicide,

00:11:51so surely there are those who continue to say

00:11:54if he committed suicide and if he committed suicide,

00:11:55who instead, many, who continue to say the opposite.

00:12:01My interest is to go and find out,

00:12:03but specifically, individual pieces.

00:12:05What I didn't like

00:12:06and that I don't share,

00:12:08but I do not agree not only with what has been done to date,

00:12:10but in general of many court cases,

00:12:13it's that too dispersive assessments are carried out

00:12:16and 360 degrees

00:12:17you come to write the complete opposite of everything

00:12:19and everyone interprets it as they wish.

00:12:22This is why we are moving forward step by step.

00:12:23and today we start from the clock

00:12:26and then maybe we'll do some further investigations,

00:12:29but in this case you can slowly get there,

00:12:33in my opinion, at some fixed points

00:12:35that can lead to the truth.

00:12:37Look, I'm not just playing devil's advocate,

00:12:38I don't just tell her

00:12:39but everything says it's suicide

00:12:42because the judiciary has established it.

00:12:44She also asks

00:12:44he feels in the uncomfortable position

00:12:47to always be there on the edge

00:12:49to invade a field that is the proper domain of the judiciary?

00:12:53Let's say that the parliamentary commissions of inquiry

00:12:56they have investigative powers

00:12:58exactly the same as those of the judiciary

00:13:00so we don't invade any field

00:13:02this is precisely the field of the parliamentary commission of inquiry.

00:13:05After that I also hear the officials say

00:13:07that we are the commission that uses the most

00:13:09of all other these investigative powers.

00:13:13My commission has started

00:13:15the first six months, for example,

00:13:16we almost didn't audition

00:13:17because we studied all the papers again

00:13:19we looked at what to do

00:13:20just like a survey pool does

00:13:22instead of a normal commission of inquiry.

00:13:24So we have their powers

00:13:26the powers of the judiciary

00:13:27we use them in the same way.

00:13:29What a chance,

00:13:30that this way I can also involve Carolina,

00:13:32What chance does David Rossi's family have?

00:13:35to benefit from the work of the commission

00:13:40to the extent of being able to ask

00:13:42and obtain the reopening of ordinary investigations

00:13:45because then they are the ones that the family asks for

00:13:48to be able to have.

00:13:50But then, let's say that the parliamentary commission

00:13:52of investigation has a very different purpose

00:13:56for example also from that of the judiciary

00:13:58which is to clarify

00:14:00why is there Parliament?

00:14:02that the interest of all Italians demands it

00:14:05to know a fact

00:14:06which is almost different from the state interest

00:14:09moved directly by the judiciary.

00:14:11It is clear that we are trying to clarify

00:14:13as much as possible

00:14:15and then what can come from the family

00:14:17We certainly hope for as much clarity as possible.

00:14:20That of reopening the case

00:14:21in reality in fact the commission

00:14:24one of the first acts he did

00:14:26it was sending all the documentation

00:14:28at the DDA of Bologna

00:14:29because we found some aspects

00:14:30which we did not consider serious

00:14:34and also attributable to organised crime

00:14:37so an investigation has already been formally reopened

00:14:40not so much about death

00:14:41as for some related facts

00:14:43therefore a first investigation has already been reopened.

00:14:46Carolina, what do you think about these results?

00:14:51you have regained confidence

00:14:53compared to the possibility

00:14:55that an investigation in Siena, in Florence, in Bologna

00:15:01as Mevole Vinci tells us now

00:15:03may reopen

00:15:05with a different hypothesis than instigation to suicide

00:15:09How were the two old investigations?

00:15:14We have full confidence in the work of the commission

00:15:18I also think that we need an equally courageous prosecutor's office

00:15:22to then continue this path

00:15:25because we are eagerly awaiting the results of the commission of inquiry

00:15:29especially in the ballistic expertise

00:15:31and all the in-depth analyses that will be carried out in the coming months

00:15:34Of course, you also need a power of attorney.

00:15:37which takes charge of all the findings

00:15:39and opens a file this time for murder.

00:15:44Another question I would like to ask you Carolina is this

00:15:47in these years in which you have also exposed yourself publicly

00:15:53asking the political forces

00:15:56and a parliamentary commission was born

00:15:58to the judiciary that has not always heard your appeals

00:16:03do you think the climate around this story has changed?

00:16:07whether there is greater or lesser interest

00:16:10as time has passed

00:16:12have the filings in Genoa etc. arrived?

00:16:18I think there is still a lot of interest

00:16:20by the citizens

00:16:22of the people, many of whom have never abandoned us

00:16:25others have joined us on this journey

00:16:28and if there is still someone who is intolerant

00:16:30with respect to our search for truth

00:16:31he'll come to terms with it

00:16:32this to us

00:16:33I don't care

00:16:34We are interested in getting to the bottom of this story

00:16:36and therefore we have maximum confidence in the work

00:16:39that the commission is doing

00:16:40Now to recap

00:16:42Honorable Vinci

00:16:44us if the direction could make us see

00:16:46let's say the video

00:16:49heartbreaking of David's caution

00:16:51let's remember it

00:16:52David Rossi falls from his office window

00:16:56and remained in that position for 22 very long minutes during which no one would have noticed anything.

00:17:0622 minutes before taking his last breath

00:17:10What the RIS of Parma discovered is that the watch that David Rossi was wearing that day fell into the

00:17:19same moment

00:17:21then there remains an unresolved question

00:17:24at the end of the alley

00:17:26at the end of the alley

00:17:27at a certain point

00:17:28a figure appears

00:17:30we'll see it soon

00:17:32here it is

00:17:33with the phone to his ear

00:17:36who looks

00:17:37then turns on his heels

00:17:39and goes away

00:17:40This figure has never been identified

00:17:43the Siena judiciary approved us only in the second instance

00:17:47but too much time had passed by now

00:17:50the commission has the means to trace the identity of that figure

00:17:54and from his point of view

00:17:55Is the identity of that figure relevant to knowing the truth or not?

00:18:01I think that in a more or less closed environment like that of Siena

00:18:06that person cannot be classified as a tourist

00:18:09that at that time of night in the rain he goes to see someone who has fallen

00:18:15and then he walks away without saying anything

00:18:16so someone definitely knows

00:18:18and it is the aim of the commission to also try to ascertain this

00:18:22so that will be one of the next steps we will take

00:18:25we will also focus on that currently

00:18:27that is, the event is that there is still room today for the...

00:18:29I absolutely think so

00:18:30through auditions?

00:18:32but between the hearings

00:18:34but Siena is certainly a small town

00:18:37and in the villages sooner or later

00:18:39especially with an investigation still so alive

00:18:41maybe someone speaks

00:18:43but she has an optimism that...

00:18:46Carolina shares the optimism of the Honorable Vinci

00:18:51on the contribution of a small reality

00:18:54like the Sienese one

00:18:56who nevertheless experienced a shock

00:18:59following David's death

00:19:01in the context of the collapse

00:19:04of the myth of a bank

00:19:07which was central in those years

00:19:09and which has been central for a long time

00:19:11in the public economic life of Siena?

00:19:18First of all let me say that it is comforting

00:19:19hear the words of President Vinci

00:19:21and therefore the possibility that there is margin

00:19:24to discover the identity of that person

00:19:26It makes me feel strange to hear that said

00:19:29so in the meantime this reassures me

00:19:31and then I definitely do

00:19:33I think that still in Siena

00:19:34there are many people who have not spoken

00:19:36but I believe that hope obviously

00:19:39it's always been that

00:19:40that someone spoke

00:19:41I believe that with the movement of the balances

00:19:45someone will still speak

00:19:46Listen, I couldn't hear it.

00:19:52but Antonella, your mother

00:19:54What do you think about these new developments?

00:20:00She is also waiting for further results

00:20:04every time we are always a little scared

00:20:07when there is something that opens our hearts

00:20:09that gives us hope

00:20:10we are always a little afraid of getting hurt

00:20:12because this is also a bit of our history

00:20:14in these 12 years

00:20:14so we always go very cautiously

00:20:16and at the same time we really have

00:20:19way to nourish hope in the work of the Commission

00:20:24First of all, thank you, Honorable Vinci.

00:20:27for having illustrated this news to us

00:20:30which seems particularly important to me

00:20:33in the sense that it can change the entire reading of the story

00:20:37Of course, one question remains.

00:20:40that if those injuries are not compatible with the fall

00:20:44so who inflicted them on him?

00:20:45but above all where he inflicted them

00:20:49and when why the idea that someone attacked David

00:20:54inside the workplace

00:20:55that it wasn't just any job

00:20:59but it was the headquarters of the third largest Italian bank

00:21:02at a particular moment

00:21:04why the attention on the Sienese institute

00:21:07it was very tall and quite scary

00:21:11Yes, everyone can definitely experience this reconstruction

00:21:18let's say that the Commission hasn't arrived yet

00:21:21to define what exactly happened inside the office

00:21:26so I don't want to go any further

00:21:27it is clear that there certainly could have been something

00:21:30which at least resembles a fight

00:21:33All right, I thank the Honorable Vinci

00:21:36I thank Carolina Orlandi for being with us

00:21:41and good luck

00:21:42now let's get back to dealing with Garlasco

00:21:46of the death of Chiara Poggi

00:21:48a case that has returned to center stage

00:21:51for a new investigation by the Pavia Prosecutor's Office

00:21:53which tries to shed some light once and for all

00:21:55on a whole series of elements

00:21:57remained pending for almost 18 years

00:22:00there is a suspect

00:22:02not a new suspect

00:22:04why Andrea Sempio is found for the second time

00:22:07under the magnifying glass of the Pavia investigators

00:22:11and there's that strange hunting atmosphere again

00:22:14to a murderer who was in the air

00:22:16even at the time of the first investigations

00:22:19we'll talk about it soon

00:22:20trying to line up all the latest news

00:22:23while we will reflect with our guests

00:22:26on how these events are covered by the media

00:22:30there are many all put into common factor

00:22:35from mechanisms that repeat themselves over time

00:22:38what we do

00:22:40being here today

00:22:41and all we want to do

00:22:44It's to get justice for our son

00:22:47and instead

00:22:49the Aosta Prosecutor's Office doesn't want to know about it

00:22:52that is, he does everything

00:22:54discovers the truth

00:22:56and defends the murderer

00:22:57just so as not to

00:22:59to blame me

00:23:01but not to find the truth

00:23:09It's January 30, 2002

00:23:11in a villa in Montreux

00:23:13fraction of Cogna

00:23:14in Aosta

00:23:14he is found murdered

00:23:15Samuele Lorenzi

00:23:16a heinous crime

00:23:18which took place this morning

00:23:19within a few minutes

00:23:20in this mountain house

00:23:22in Cogna

00:23:22Samuele Lorenzi

00:23:24just three years old

00:23:25is dead

00:23:25during transport

00:23:26by helicopter

00:23:27at the hospital in Aosta

00:23:28his skull was smashed in

00:23:30and numerous head wounds

00:23:38the prosecution proved

00:23:40that the little one's blood

00:23:41had soaked

00:23:42the mother's clothes

00:23:43that in 2008

00:23:44condemned Franzoni

00:23:45definitively

00:23:46to 16 years in prison

00:23:48he will pay for it

00:23:49you actually are

00:23:50plus five more

00:23:51under house arrest

00:23:53throughout the entire trial

00:23:57Anna Maria Franzoni

00:23:58he did not spare himself

00:23:59in television appearances

00:24:00during the first interview

00:24:02with the cameras off

00:24:03he let himself escape

00:24:04I cried too much

00:24:05which sparked controversy

00:24:07and questions

00:24:07on the sincerity of women

00:24:09according to the expert reports

00:24:10suffering from hysterical neurosis

00:24:12forensic doctors and investigators

00:24:14they no longer have any doubts

00:24:15the fatal wounds

00:24:16suffered by the child

00:24:17in the double bed

00:24:18of the parents in Cogne

00:24:20were inflicted

00:24:21with a small weapon

00:24:22cutting

00:24:23at this point

00:24:23the track is heading

00:24:25on the murder

00:24:26because they are no longer there

00:24:26some doubts

00:24:27that death

00:24:27causes violence

00:24:30public opinion

00:24:31it splits

00:24:32among those who blame

00:24:33and innocentists

00:24:34among those who will believe

00:24:35to the words

00:24:35of Franzoni

00:24:36and who was convinced

00:24:37that the woman

00:24:38had cynically

00:24:39developed a strategy

00:24:41of defense

00:24:41to manipulate

00:24:42public opinion

00:24:43we heard

00:24:45the prosecution's position

00:24:46we heard

00:24:46the position of the defense

00:24:47now with Professor Bruno

00:24:49we are looking for

00:24:50on the plastic

00:24:52of the villa of Cogne

00:24:54to understand

00:24:55what do they say

00:24:56what do they say

00:24:57what do they say

00:25:17it was discovered

00:25:18shortly after 1.30pm

00:25:19but it could be

00:25:20happened much earlier

00:25:21It's November 1st

00:25:24of 2007

00:25:24in a small villa

00:25:26from Perugia

00:25:26Meredith

00:25:27English student

00:25:28in Erasmus

00:25:29is found

00:25:30with his throat cut

00:25:31in the apartment

00:25:32which he shared

00:25:33with other students

00:25:34in the first degree

00:25:36they will be condemned

00:25:37the American

00:25:37Amanda Knox

00:25:38and Raphael

00:25:39I urge

00:25:39verdict

00:25:40overturned on appeal

00:25:42for not having committed

00:25:43the fact

00:25:43the Court of Cassation

00:25:46accepts the appeal

00:25:47of the prosecution

00:25:48and so

00:25:48in the second trial

00:25:49of appeal

00:25:50Knox and Sollecito

00:25:51they will be condemned

00:25:53respectively

00:25:54at 28 and 25 years old

00:25:56of imprisonment

00:25:57the judges have decided

00:25:59the ban

00:26:00of Expatriation

00:26:01a sentence therefore

00:26:02which has aroused

00:26:03different reactions

00:26:05March 27th

00:26:06of 2015

00:26:07eight years

00:26:08after the crime

00:26:09the Court of Cassation

00:26:10will cancel

00:26:11definitely

00:26:12the sentence

00:26:12due to lack

00:26:14of certain evidence

00:26:15and numerous errors

00:26:16in the investigations

00:26:17this is it

00:26:18that the Supreme Court

00:26:19has clearly established

00:26:20with the sentence

00:26:21which cancelled

00:26:22without referral

00:26:22the sentence

00:26:23for Amanda Knox

00:26:24and Raffaele Sollecito

00:26:25for not having killed

00:26:26Meredith Kercher

00:26:27Rudy Ghedecki

00:26:28meanwhile in prison

00:26:29he is graduating

00:26:30in letters

00:26:31solely responsible

00:26:32of that crime

00:26:33with his signature

00:26:34fingerprint and DNA

00:26:35left in the room

00:26:36where Metz was massacred

00:26:38the Kercher murder

00:26:39It will be one of the most talked about

00:26:41from the Anglo-Saxon press

00:26:43will inspire three films

00:26:44various documentaries

00:26:45and a play

00:26:47it's terrible

00:26:48what they were able to do

00:26:49the victim's father said

00:26:51I also wonder

00:26:52how can it be carried

00:26:53on the screen

00:26:53a story

00:26:54that legally

00:26:55it hasn't finished yet

00:26:57the TV movie

00:26:57is called

00:26:58Amanda Knox

00:26:59in the first two years

00:27:00of the story

00:27:00they were counted

00:27:02in the news only

00:27:03Rai and Mediaset

00:27:04in the evening

00:27:06858 services

00:27:07more than one a day

00:27:09at 9821

00:27:10of 37th Avenue

00:27:12from Seattle

00:27:13it just arrived

00:27:13the phone call from Rome

00:27:14that everyone was waiting for

00:27:16to Kitted

00:27:17acquitted

00:27:24there is a red thread

00:27:27which unites the cases of Cogne

00:27:28Perugia

00:27:29Garlasco

00:27:30and many others

00:27:31it's not just about

00:27:32of broken loves

00:27:33crimes committed

00:27:35and those charged

00:27:36it's not the media

00:27:39that create the case

00:27:41the case exists

00:27:42when a crime

00:27:42stands out from the others

00:27:44because behind

00:27:45there is a question

00:27:46underlying

00:27:47a question

00:27:48a situation

00:27:49which triggered

00:27:51our resonance

00:27:52more than on other occasions

00:27:53more use of evidence

00:27:55it will be controversial

00:27:56the more it will feed

00:27:57the short circuit

00:27:58between information

00:27:59and the process

00:28:00of the investigations

00:28:01a conditioned reflex

00:28:03born in the times

00:28:04of Tangentopoli

00:28:05and now

00:28:06extended to investigations

00:28:07which have nothing to do with each other

00:28:09with politics

00:28:10a conditioned reflex

00:28:11which makes you lose sight of

00:28:13the story of the trial

00:28:14and rewards often

00:28:16falsifying narratives

00:28:23here we are again

00:28:24let's open this page

00:28:26which concerns

00:28:27carlasco

00:28:28we comment on it

00:28:30with two guests

00:28:31that you don't see

00:28:32let's say

00:28:32Often

00:28:33on television

00:28:34here in the studio

00:28:34with me

00:28:35Kuno Tarfusser

00:28:37former judge

00:28:38of the Criminal Court

00:28:39International

00:28:40substitute

00:28:41Attorney General

00:28:42in Milan

00:28:43Now

00:28:44magistrate

00:28:44retired

00:28:45it is said

00:28:46in these cases

00:28:47happily retired

00:28:49connected

00:28:50from Milan

00:28:51Instead

00:28:51the professor

00:28:52Ennio Amodio

00:28:54Professor of merit

00:28:56of criminal procedure

00:28:57many students

00:28:59they were formed

00:29:00through

00:29:01his lessons

00:29:02his articles

00:29:02his books

00:29:04one in particular

00:29:05professor

00:29:07Good evening

00:29:07it concerns us

00:29:09all up close

00:29:10aesthetics

00:29:12of justice

00:29:13criminal

00:29:14that tells

00:29:15a bit

00:29:15all those

00:29:16mechanisms

00:29:17I can define them

00:29:19perverse

00:29:20professor

00:29:21between media

00:29:21and justice

00:29:22criminal

00:29:22Certainly

00:29:24and distorting

00:29:27that is the characteristic

00:29:29of the process

00:29:31media

00:29:32it's the distortion

00:29:34of all this

00:29:35what happens

00:29:36before the judges

00:29:38and then

00:29:39as he said

00:29:40her first

00:29:40the forgery

00:29:41of the test

00:29:42it is the consideration

00:29:45of a pole

00:29:47attractive

00:29:48which offers

00:29:49the show

00:29:49of guilt

00:29:51right on the basis

00:29:52of circumstances

00:29:53that they don't have

00:29:55feedback

00:29:56or anyway

00:29:57they have a response

00:29:58faint

00:30:00and far away

00:30:01in comparison to this

00:30:02what's happening

00:30:03before the judges

00:30:04Here you are

00:30:04this is what we say

00:30:05a taste

00:30:06some reflections

00:30:07what will we do

00:30:08in a little while

00:30:08in the meantime

00:30:09but let's go in

00:30:10in detail

00:30:12with our videos

00:30:14compared to the news

00:30:15which concern

00:30:17the new investigations

00:30:18about Garlasco

00:30:19the accident

00:30:20evidentiary

00:30:21in progress

00:30:22in these weeks

00:30:23in this video

00:30:26the Garlasco crime

00:30:28Milan is underway

00:30:28the accident

00:30:29evidentiary

00:30:30of the new investigation

00:30:31charged to Andrea Sempio

00:30:33consultants and experts

00:30:34they will analyze

00:30:34traces and finds

00:30:36old and new

00:30:37an evidentiary incident

00:30:39which should end

00:30:41in autumn

00:30:41and that will pass

00:30:42through a sieve

00:30:42some finds

00:30:43present in the home

00:30:44of the Poggi family

00:30:45and never analyzed before

00:30:48a teaspoon

00:30:50two jars of yogurt

00:30:51a part

00:30:51of the bath mat

00:30:52the adhesive strips

00:30:53which they detected

00:30:5435 footprints supported

00:30:56Kitchen

00:30:56and other surfaces

00:30:57they are the findings

00:30:58handed over to the experts

00:30:59appointed by the judge of Pavia

00:31:00two policemen

00:31:01of the scientific

00:31:02why they look for

00:31:03traces of DNA

00:31:04useful for possible comparisons

00:31:06transported to the Milan police station

00:31:07in a box

00:31:08and in this cooler bag

00:31:09starting from the bag

00:31:11of the garbage

00:31:12within

00:31:13a banana peel

00:31:14a box of cereal

00:31:16two jars of yogurt

00:31:17one of tea

00:31:18all consumed

00:31:20for breakfast

00:31:20we started

00:31:22to do the swabs

00:31:23on all content

00:31:25if the question is

00:31:27if it was all rotten

00:31:28No

00:31:28it was all dry

00:31:30but in good condition

00:31:33fundamental tracks

00:31:35to rebuild

00:31:36who was there

00:31:36within

00:31:37of the villa

00:31:38in the morning

00:31:38of the murder

00:31:39the problem is

00:31:41that some traces

00:31:42they were lost

00:31:43in 2007

00:31:44they have not been fixed

00:31:46they have not been crystallized

00:31:47like two teaspoons

00:31:49within

00:31:51of the sink

00:31:51that have not been

00:31:52findings

00:31:53new analyses

00:31:54they could

00:31:54confirm

00:31:56the strangeness

00:31:58by Andrea Sempio

00:31:59or

00:32:00to place

00:32:00of the results

00:32:02on which

00:32:03then in short

00:32:03everyone

00:32:04we will discuss

00:32:05from the first previews

00:32:07However

00:32:08in the remains

00:32:09of the garbage

00:32:09there wouldn't be

00:32:10the presence

00:32:11of DNA

00:32:12different

00:32:12from that

00:32:13of the victim

00:32:14Chiara Poggi

00:32:14and in one case

00:32:15by Alberto Stasi

00:32:17let's do the analysis

00:32:18because we expect something

00:32:19then that there is actually something

00:32:21this is another story

00:32:22inside the bag

00:32:24even a hair

00:32:253 centimeters long

00:32:27found alone

00:32:28a few days ago

00:32:28which could

00:32:29not belonging

00:32:30to Chiara Poggi

00:32:31fundamental

00:32:32to identify

00:32:32a DNA

00:32:33it would be the presence

00:32:34of the bulb

00:32:35but of the 36 hairs

00:32:36already found

00:32:37previously

00:32:38only one

00:32:39would be provided with it

00:32:40and DNA

00:32:41it turns out to be

00:32:42own

00:32:42Chiara's

00:32:44at a distance

00:32:4518 years old

00:32:46it is possible to find

00:32:47Still

00:32:47of the material

00:32:48biological

00:32:48usable

00:32:49Depends

00:32:50from the state

00:32:51of conservation

00:32:52of the garbage

00:32:53same

00:32:54no one cared

00:32:56but in this

00:32:56RIS has nothing to do with it

00:32:57to freeze it

00:33:00for weeks

00:33:01new footprints are being sought

00:33:03traces

00:33:03biological samples

00:33:04finds

00:33:05never analyzed

00:33:06or with dubious results

00:33:07to be reanalyzed today

00:33:09with new techniques

00:33:11with this goal

00:33:13the investigators

00:33:14they entered

00:33:15in the villa

00:33:15of Pascoli Street

00:33:16using drones

00:33:17and laser scanners

00:33:18to create a map

00:33:20in 3D

00:33:20of the scene

00:33:21of the crime

00:33:22a digital model

00:33:24high precision

00:33:25to place

00:33:26finds

00:33:27and traces of blood

00:33:28starting

00:33:28from the internal stairs

00:33:30that carry

00:33:30in the basement

00:33:31where it was found

00:33:33Chiara's body

00:33:35but it is possible

00:33:37what findings

00:33:38defined

00:33:38not usable

00:33:39or not significant

00:33:41at the time

00:33:41Today

00:33:42at a distance

00:33:4318 years old

00:33:43can they reveal something?

00:33:45there is also a footprint

00:33:47palmtop

00:33:47on a door

00:33:48That

00:33:51it has never been attributed

00:33:53left

00:33:54from the blood

00:33:56that is, the blood

00:33:57he made ink

00:33:58And

00:33:59who closed

00:34:00that door

00:34:01he had hands

00:34:01bloody

00:34:02it's not a footprint

00:34:04by Alberto Stasi

00:34:05why that footprint

00:34:06it was photographed

00:34:07and it has been compared

00:34:08it's a footprint

00:34:10someone else's

00:34:11Therefore

00:34:11because it wasn't

00:34:13considered?

00:34:15the footprint

00:34:16catalogued

00:34:17like number 10

00:34:18that one found

00:34:19on the inside

00:34:20of the door

00:34:20entrance

00:34:21of the villa

00:34:22is considered

00:34:23forever

00:34:23the possible signature

00:34:24of the murderer

00:34:25perhaps left

00:34:26from his hand

00:34:27before fleeing

00:34:28it was found

00:34:30four days

00:34:31after the crime

00:34:31photographed

00:34:32highlighted

00:34:33with the light

00:34:34ultraviolet

00:34:35alone

00:34:36eight points

00:34:36of comparison

00:34:37too few

00:34:38for a comparison

00:34:39reliable

00:34:40it's a trace

00:34:41dirty

00:34:42not of blood

00:34:43but of material

00:34:44biological

00:34:45from which

00:34:45we will try

00:34:46to extract

00:34:46a DNA

00:34:47to capture

00:34:48attention

00:34:49of the investigators

00:34:49there would be

00:34:50a new element

00:34:51step 0

00:34:52or the first

00:34:53of the ladder

00:34:54where it was found

00:34:55Chiara Poggi

00:34:56on that step

00:34:57there wouldn't be

00:34:58no trace

00:34:58of blood

00:34:59who killed her

00:35:00so he wouldn't have it

00:35:01never trampled

00:35:02succeeding

00:35:03to leave no footprints

00:35:04then there is

00:35:05the now famous

00:35:06track number 33

00:35:07the footprint

00:35:08of the hand

00:35:08found on the second

00:35:10right wall

00:35:10of the stairs

00:35:11that today

00:35:12the Pavia prosecutor's office

00:35:13attributes to Andrea Sempio

00:35:15a sign

00:35:16on the left wall

00:35:17of the stairs

00:35:17the footprint

00:35:18of the murderer

00:35:19stained

00:35:19from the blood

00:35:20by Chiara Poggi

00:35:21it's not a trace

00:35:22unpublished

00:35:22the one still unknown

00:35:23in the center

00:35:24of the new investigation

00:35:25catalogued

00:35:2618 years ago

00:35:26like 97F

00:35:28in the mosaic

00:35:29sprung

00:35:30from the recent

00:35:31reconstruction

00:35:31three-dimensional

00:35:32of the scene

00:35:33of the crime

00:35:33the investigators

00:35:34they hypothesize

00:35:35that it is

00:35:35of the same person

00:35:36whose hand

00:35:37right

00:35:37he left

00:35:38the footprint

00:35:3833

00:35:39for the prosecution

00:35:40it's about

00:35:40of the only suspect

00:35:41the defense

00:35:42he replies

00:35:43these are just assumptions

00:35:44without any feedback

00:35:45scientific

00:35:46until proven

00:35:47contrary

00:35:47I believe in innocence

00:35:48by Andrea Sempio

00:35:49and then

00:35:50I don't expect

00:35:51of the results

00:35:52sensational

00:35:54it has been analyzed

00:35:56with ninhydrin

00:35:57a substance

00:35:58that reacts

00:35:58to sweat

00:35:59and they were found

00:36:0015 points

00:36:01of overlap

00:36:02with the palm

00:36:03of the hand

00:36:04by Andrea Sempio

00:36:04However

00:36:06the footprint

00:36:06it has not been inserted

00:36:07in the evidentiary incident

00:36:09and although

00:36:10according to the hypothesis

00:36:11investigative

00:36:11would be tied

00:36:12to the murder

00:36:13could instead

00:36:14to be previous

00:36:15I believe

00:36:16that in the strategy

00:36:18of the prosecution

00:36:19there is a revisitation

00:36:21a check

00:36:22of all that

00:36:22that has been done

00:36:23At that time

00:36:23welcome

00:36:24I am convinced

00:36:25that all that

00:36:26that has been done

00:36:27At that time

00:36:27it was done well

00:36:28then you can make a mistake

00:36:30this is human

00:36:31but I don't think so

00:36:32that we were wrong

00:36:37At that time

00:36:38I don't ask

00:36:39to our guests

00:36:40to enter

00:36:41on the merits

00:36:41of the story

00:36:42but

00:36:43Dr. Tarfusser

00:36:44Alberto Stasi

00:36:46he's a boy

00:36:47which is found

00:36:48let's say

00:36:50towards

00:36:51the end

00:36:51of his punishment

00:36:53because it was

00:36:54convicted

00:36:55definitely

00:36:55in 2015

00:36:56but he was convicted

00:36:58at the outcome

00:36:58of two

00:36:59processes

00:37:00of merit

00:37:01that previously

00:37:02they had it

00:37:03fully

00:37:04acquitted

00:37:05I wonder

00:37:06it's normal

00:37:07to be condemned

00:37:09after two shorts

00:37:09of merit

00:37:10that absolve you

00:37:11Why

00:37:11at a certain point

00:37:12the Court of Cassation

00:37:13order

00:37:14a new trial

00:37:14of appeal

00:37:16if you ask me

00:37:17if it's normal

00:37:17evidently

00:37:18it's not normal

00:37:19because it is not

00:37:20what happens

00:37:21very often

00:37:21but I

00:37:23I think

00:37:23That

00:37:25the Italian judges

00:37:26but not even

00:37:27the Court of Cassation

00:37:28he understood

00:37:29the true meaning

00:37:30and you read it

00:37:31in many sentences

00:37:32what they say

00:37:33quite the opposite

00:37:34of everything

00:37:34of the concept

00:37:36Of

00:37:36beyond

00:37:37of all reasonable

00:37:38doubt

00:37:39the beyond reasonable

00:37:41doubts

00:37:41that from us

00:37:42it was introduced

00:37:43only recently

00:37:44in our code

00:37:46and that comes

00:37:47treaty

00:37:48as if it were

00:37:49something

00:37:50to embellish

00:37:51a bit

00:37:52to make

00:37:53ornamental

00:37:53Yes

00:37:53a sort

00:37:55ad colorandum

00:37:56as if

00:37:57to color

00:37:58a little better

00:37:59of concepts

00:38:01as

00:38:01like doubt

00:38:05before we had

00:38:07the solution

00:38:07due to insufficiency

00:38:08of evidence

00:38:09or for

00:38:10to say

00:38:12which is

00:38:12the public prosecutor

00:38:13which must

00:38:14try

00:38:15the accusation

00:38:16actually

00:38:18it's not like that

00:38:19In my opinion

00:38:20the declension

00:38:22Italian

00:38:22from his point of view

00:38:23what limit does it have?

00:38:24a limit

00:38:26that is

00:38:26the limit

00:38:27that's it

00:38:27which is not interpreted

00:38:30or it is not interpreted

00:38:32in the sense that

00:38:32it opens today

00:38:33most

00:38:34of the sentences

00:38:35that one reads

00:38:36first degree

00:38:36and then second degree

00:38:38he says

00:38:39we have

00:38:41tried

00:38:41beyond all reason

00:38:43the doubt

00:38:43as if it were

00:38:43a cliché

00:38:45a kind of slogan

00:38:47how to say

00:38:47as if the judge

00:38:49reassure

00:38:49the reader

00:38:50who looked

00:38:51the cards are good

00:38:52but nothing more

00:38:52but this threshold

00:38:53of reasonable doubt

00:38:53How do you overcome it?

00:38:55No

00:38:55but let me say

00:38:57how it was born

00:38:58reasonable doubt

00:38:59because it does not originate from us

00:39:00we have

00:39:00as often happens

00:39:03taken

00:39:04of concepts

00:39:05without

00:39:05without them being

00:39:07then ours

00:39:08from the right

00:39:09Anglo-Saxon

00:39:09and in the

00:39:11In the

00:39:11seven hundred

00:39:13so some

00:39:14a hundred years ago

00:39:15The

00:39:16beyond reasonable doubt

00:39:17it was introduced

00:39:18in the system

00:39:19Anglo-Saxon

00:39:20but why

00:39:21was it introduced?

00:39:22it was introduced

00:39:23to lower

00:39:24the threshold

00:39:26of the

00:39:28beyond

00:39:29of which

00:39:30he is condemned

00:39:30or below

00:39:31of which

00:39:32he acquits himself

00:39:32that is, there were

00:39:33too many convictions

00:39:34or too many acquittals?

00:39:34too many acquittals

00:39:35too many acquittals

00:39:36in the sense that

00:39:37at the time

00:39:38in full swing

00:39:39obscurantist

00:39:41there was

00:39:41The

00:39:42the jurors

00:39:44that came

00:39:44obviously taken

00:39:46from the street

00:39:47as it still is today

00:39:48they were afraid

00:39:50from the

00:39:52of divine vengeance

00:39:54about themselves

00:39:55and their families

00:39:56even if in front

00:39:58at the slightest doubt

00:39:58had condemned

00:39:59Therefore

00:40:00they came

00:40:01substantially acquitted

00:40:02almost all

00:40:03except those who confessed

00:40:04they were found

00:40:05with their hands in the cookie jar

00:40:06so on the contrary

00:40:06of the reason why

00:40:07it was introduced

00:40:08in Italy

00:40:09Exactly

00:40:09to lower

00:40:10this threshold

00:40:10they introduced

00:40:12beyond reasonable doubt

00:40:13from us

00:40:13it was the opposite

00:40:14from us

00:40:15beyond reasonable doubt

00:40:16it was introduced

00:40:18to mitigate

00:40:19or for

00:40:20For

00:40:20to dampen

00:40:21to strengthen

00:40:22a tendency to condemn

00:40:23the concept

00:40:25of free conviction

00:40:26Meaning what

00:40:26free conviction

00:40:27it's no longer enough

00:40:28something more is needed

00:40:30of free conviction

00:40:31That

00:40:31which then

00:40:33No

00:40:34between free conviction

00:40:35and referee

00:40:35the borders

00:40:37they are quite mobile

00:40:38and then

00:40:38they raised

00:40:40the threshold

00:40:40compared to that

00:40:41which was before

00:40:42of the introduction

00:40:43and of this

00:40:43the Italian judiciary

00:40:45he doesn't care at all

00:40:46Professor Amodio

00:40:48I feel this thing

00:40:49what does he say?

00:40:50Talfus

00:40:50and I'm surprised

00:40:51that is, he says

00:40:52a principle

00:40:53which was introduced

00:40:55hundreds of years ago

00:40:57to lower

00:40:59the number of acquittals

00:41:00in Italy

00:41:01is assimilated

00:41:02For

00:41:03lower the number

00:41:04of convictions

00:41:05it's a reading

00:41:06That

00:41:07it amazes me

00:41:08Yes

00:41:09I said it

00:41:09exactly like that

00:41:10I summarized

00:41:13having done

00:41:14specific studies

00:41:15on the point

00:41:16and having taught

00:41:17for many years

00:41:18procedural law

00:41:20and criminal

00:41:20compared

00:41:21in our country

00:41:23I'm convinced

00:41:25of a different reality

00:41:26and then

00:41:28on the basis

00:41:29of the studies

00:41:30that have been made

00:41:31even abroad

00:41:33in England

00:41:33in the United States

00:41:34beyond

00:41:36any reasonable

00:41:37doubt

00:41:38Meaning what

00:41:39beyond

00:41:39of all reasonable

00:41:40doubt

00:41:41she is tied

00:41:42to a simple one

00:41:43circumstance

00:41:44since

00:41:45and he knows it well

00:41:46the doctor

00:41:47Tarfusser

00:41:48the majority

00:41:49of the processes

00:41:50of Common Law

00:41:52are hinged

00:41:54on the jury

00:41:55and the jury

00:41:56it's done

00:41:57by 12 lay people

00:41:58the rule

00:42:00which had been

00:42:01established

00:42:01it was the following

00:42:03Enough

00:42:04Also

00:42:05the only one

00:42:05doubt

00:42:06expressed

00:42:07from one

00:42:08of the components

00:42:09of the jury

00:42:10to opt

00:42:13and let it pass

00:42:14the sentence

00:42:16or rather

00:42:16the verdict

00:42:17of acquittal

00:42:19Therefore

00:42:19the roots

00:42:21in my opinion

00:42:22and on the basis

00:42:24of the studies

00:42:24that I could

00:42:25see

00:42:26in recent years

00:42:27the roots

00:42:28of this rule

00:42:30they are roots

00:42:31guarantees

00:42:32Meaning what

00:42:33roots

00:42:34which in essence

00:42:35they say

00:42:36there too

00:42:37Where

00:42:38a simple one

00:42:39man

00:42:39secular

00:42:40Meaning what

00:42:41not a

00:42:42technician

00:42:42of the law

00:42:43not a man

00:42:44toga

00:42:45he believes

00:42:46that there is

00:42:47the doubt

00:42:48about

00:42:49the possibility

00:42:51to condemn

00:42:52must prevail

00:42:53the decision

00:42:55acquittal

00:42:56When

00:42:58was

00:42:58Done

00:42:59what

00:43:00he remembered well

00:43:01the doctor

00:43:02Tarscus

00:43:02the reception

00:43:05let's say so

00:43:05the acquisition

00:43:07in Italy

00:43:08of this rule

00:43:09it was done

00:43:10nor more

00:43:10no less

00:43:11a job

00:43:12of transfer

00:43:14of a rule

00:43:16guarantees

00:43:17in a context

00:43:19That

00:43:19it was already

00:43:20characterized

00:43:21from a certain

00:43:23dose of guarantees

00:43:25but

00:43:25he needed

00:43:26of something

00:43:27moreover

00:43:28full-bodied

00:43:29more evident

00:43:30moreover

00:43:31approachable

00:43:32and it was

00:43:33own

00:43:33this concept

00:43:34beyond

00:43:35beyond

00:43:36of all reasonable

00:43:37doubt

00:43:38Excuse me, professor

00:43:38but in one case

00:43:39where a subject

00:43:41he is acquitted

00:43:42on the merits

00:43:43twice

00:43:44we can say

00:43:44what's there

00:43:45a stamp

00:43:46of reasonable

00:43:47doubt

00:43:47indelible

00:43:49on history

00:43:49which will not solve

00:43:51no one else anymore

00:43:52merit trial

00:43:53Yes

00:43:54I would say

00:43:55you could say

00:43:56on the floor

00:43:57substantial

00:43:58but

00:43:58our

00:44:00Constitution

00:44:01he says

00:44:02That

00:44:02the presumption

00:44:03of innocence

00:44:04it's worth

00:44:05up to the

00:44:06judgment

00:44:07definitive

00:44:08and how

00:44:09in case

00:44:09Garlasco

00:44:10What

00:44:10it happened

00:44:11essentially

00:44:12that there was

00:44:14a first

00:44:14absolution

00:44:15in court

00:44:16abbreviated

00:44:17a second

00:44:17absolution

00:44:19on appeal

00:44:19Then

00:44:20the Court

00:44:21of Cassation

00:44:22it is cancelled

00:44:23and in the judgment

00:44:24of referral

00:44:25there was

00:44:25the sentence

00:44:26Therefore

00:44:27there wasn't

00:44:29a

00:44:29absolution

00:44:30definitive

00:44:31such as to prevent

00:44:33that it could be done

00:44:34return

00:44:35again

00:44:36on the case

00:44:37Here you are

00:44:38it seems paradoxical

00:44:40and in some

00:44:41measure

00:44:42it is

00:44:42in the sense

00:44:43That

00:44:43if two

00:44:44judges

00:44:45of merit

00:44:46they thought

00:44:47that Stasi

00:44:48should be

00:44:49acquitted

00:44:50let's say

00:44:51the trend

00:44:53that can be done

00:44:54have

00:44:54from the outside

00:44:55that's it

00:44:55to say

00:44:56but this

00:44:57it can be enough

00:44:57Why

00:44:58I am

00:44:59magistrates

00:45:01That

00:45:01in the end

00:45:02they succeeded

00:45:04to converge

00:45:04on this

00:45:05solution

00:45:06but

00:45:06the Constitution

00:45:08he doesn't say

00:45:09This

00:45:10and says

00:45:10must

00:45:11wait

00:45:11the decision

00:45:13of the Court

00:45:13of Cassation

00:45:14if in the process

00:45:16Stasis

00:45:16the Court

00:45:17of Cassation

00:45:18had said

00:45:18the appeals

00:45:20I am

00:45:21inadmissible

00:45:22the sentence

00:45:23she is well motivated

00:45:24they are not here

00:45:25space

00:45:25for other nullities

00:45:27would be

00:45:28become

00:45:28definitive

00:45:29the sentence

00:45:30of acquittal

00:45:31of Stasi

00:45:33this would have

00:45:34consecrated

00:45:35his

00:45:36innocence

00:45:37Unfortunately

00:45:38it wasn't

00:45:39Like this

00:45:39listen

00:45:40I do them

00:45:40this question

00:45:41not as a jurist

00:45:42not as a professor

00:45:43but as a citizen

00:45:45to her

00:45:46what a message

00:45:46he arrives

00:45:47in this

00:45:47period

00:45:49Meaning what

00:45:49a new one

00:45:51under investigation

00:45:52on which

00:45:52let's say

00:45:53everyone

00:45:54the media

00:45:55newspapers

00:45:56and televisions

00:45:56yes they are

00:45:57slingshots

00:45:57the defendant

00:46:00the condemned

00:46:01definitely

00:46:01guilty

00:46:02according to the law

00:46:03that is starting

00:46:05at a brisk pace

00:46:06towards atonement

00:46:08complete

00:46:09of the penalty

00:46:10who receives

00:46:11this information

00:46:12it's a bit

00:46:13public

00:46:13a bit

00:46:14disoriented

00:46:14this disorientation

00:46:16it also reaches

00:46:17the citizen

00:46:18Amodio?

00:46:20No

00:46:20the citizen

00:46:21Amodio

00:46:21No

00:46:21Why

00:46:22the citizen

00:46:23Amodio

00:46:23he is a technician

00:46:24and then

00:46:25he puts himself

00:46:27with the lab coat

00:46:28white

00:46:28in front of

00:46:29to this one

00:46:30story

00:46:30judicial

00:46:31the vivisection

00:46:33and what

00:46:34finds?

00:46:35Basically

00:46:36how it was

00:46:36summary

00:46:37in the video

00:46:38here we have

00:46:40a pure one

00:46:42and simple

00:46:43revisiting

00:46:44of finds

00:46:45already acquired

00:46:46previously

00:46:47every now and again

00:46:49there is a glimmer of hope

00:46:50for something

00:46:51again

00:46:51but there aren't any

00:46:53new evidence

00:46:54in the sense

00:46:55of evidence

00:46:56acquired

00:46:57from scratch

00:46:58Why

00:46:59fate

00:47:00subsequently

00:47:02to the judge

00:47:03of Stasi

00:47:06nor evidence

00:47:07acquired

00:47:08somehow

00:47:09even before

00:47:09but never

00:47:10presented

00:47:11here

00:47:12we have

00:47:13a trousseau

00:47:14evidentiary

00:47:15extremely

00:47:17poor

00:47:18Why

00:47:19the only one

00:47:20circumstance

00:47:21circumstantial evidence

00:47:22which takes on

00:47:24some

00:47:24value

00:47:25it's like

00:47:26everyone remembers

00:47:27that

00:47:28of DNA

00:47:29of the new

00:47:30under investigation

00:47:31that comes

00:47:32discovery

00:47:33and analyzed

00:47:35under the nails

00:47:37of the unfortunate

00:47:39clear

00:47:39only

00:47:40That

00:47:41although

00:47:42the accident

00:47:44rehearsal room

00:47:45that is

00:47:46to conclude

00:47:47should

00:47:47confirm

00:47:48That

00:47:49that DNA

00:47:50it's just

00:47:51of the new

00:47:52under investigation

00:47:53there would be

00:47:55a doubt

00:47:55which remains

00:47:56from the point of view

00:47:57conceptual

00:47:58as far as

00:47:59pertains

00:47:59to the test

00:48:00if there were

00:48:01a quantity

00:48:03of material

00:48:04genetic

00:48:05harvest

00:48:07under the nails

00:48:08of clear

00:48:09At that time

00:48:09Perhaps

00:48:10you could

00:48:11say

00:48:11That

00:48:12that is

00:48:13what about it

00:48:13it springs forth

00:48:14it's a reaction

00:48:16of clear

00:48:17same

00:48:17in front of

00:48:18to his

00:48:19attacker

00:48:19or executioner

00:48:20That

00:48:21it was resolved

00:48:23in stretching

00:48:24the hands

00:48:24and sink

00:48:25the nails

00:48:26for example

00:48:27in the arms

00:48:28of this person

00:48:29but

00:48:30This

00:48:31we don't know

00:48:32it was not said

00:48:33if instead

00:48:34there was

00:48:35a quantity

00:48:36more limited

00:48:37of material

00:48:39genetic

00:48:40Always

00:48:40traceable

00:48:41as new

00:48:42under investigation

00:48:42And

00:48:43placed

00:48:44under

00:48:45the fingertips

00:48:47At that time

00:48:48the meaning

00:48:49would be

00:48:50that

00:48:50of a clue

00:48:51not serious

00:48:52Why

00:48:53how it was

00:48:53said

00:48:54from the defense

00:48:55this

00:48:56circumstance

00:48:57it is compatible

00:48:58with the fact

00:48:59That

00:49:00the new

00:49:02under investigation

00:49:03he frequented

00:49:03the house

00:49:04and used

00:49:06the computer too

00:49:07of clear

00:49:08and that

00:49:08that is

00:49:09facilitated

00:49:09a transfer

00:49:10of material

00:49:11genetic

00:49:12let's go

00:49:13let me add

00:49:15let's say

00:49:15an element

00:49:16in this story

00:49:18in the last

00:49:19weeks

00:49:20you saw it

00:49:21in many

00:49:23apparitions

00:49:24television

00:49:25the lawyer

00:49:25Lovati

00:49:26one of the

00:49:27defenders

00:49:28Of

00:49:28Andrea

00:49:29Example

00:49:30that at the moment

00:49:30he is under investigation

00:49:32for the very serious

00:49:33hypothesis

00:49:34of murder

00:49:35by Chiara Poggi

00:49:36in competition

00:49:37Well

00:49:37Lovati

00:49:38for a long time

00:49:39he goes around

00:49:41to say

00:49:41one thing

00:49:42that someone

00:49:43judge

00:49:44a bit

00:49:45crazy

00:49:46unlikely

00:49:47what is it about

00:49:48we see it

00:49:49in this video

00:49:55this investigation

00:49:56is powered

00:49:57from a force

00:49:59which is not

00:49:59Alberto Stasi

00:50:03in 7-8 months

00:50:06I think

00:50:07that it may be

00:50:07entrusted

00:50:08on trial

00:50:08to social service

00:50:09for which

00:50:10free

00:50:11what a problem

00:50:12has Alberto Stasi

00:50:14to reopen

00:50:14this investigation

00:50:15Like this

00:50:17I have pride

00:50:19it's not enough

00:50:21pride

00:50:22to someone

00:50:24it's of interest

00:50:24arrive

00:50:27to another

00:50:28guilty

00:50:29that it is not

00:50:29Alberto Stasi

00:50:30Why

00:50:31they promised it to him

00:50:32what will be

00:50:33declared

00:50:34innocent

00:50:36they were there

00:50:38succeeding

00:50:38because we have

00:50:39two sentences

00:50:40who have it

00:50:42acquitted

00:50:42while the sentence

00:50:44of condemnation

00:50:44let me say

00:50:47the test

00:50:48principal

00:50:50that supports

00:50:51the sentence

00:50:52by Alberto Stasi

00:50:53I am

00:50:53the walk

00:50:56the first analysis

00:50:58what should I do?

00:50:59is to look at him

00:51:00the shoes

00:51:01and see

00:51:01if they are clean

00:51:02or dirty

00:51:02him

00:51:03he went

00:51:04from the carabinieri

00:51:05that morning

00:51:06After

00:51:07that phone call

00:51:08delirious

00:51:09moreover

00:51:10I think that

00:51:11they killed her

00:51:12where he speaks

00:51:13the plural

00:51:13moreover

00:51:14I think that

00:51:15they killed her

00:51:16but what's happening?

00:51:18I think that

00:51:19they killed

00:51:19a person

00:51:20I'm not sure

00:51:20maybe she's alive

00:51:21what do you see?

00:51:23I'm gone now

00:51:23from the police

00:51:24there is blood

00:51:25everywhere

00:51:26she is lying down

00:51:26on the ground

00:51:27and introduces himself

00:51:28from the police

00:51:28with shoes

00:51:29clean

00:51:30How come?

00:51:34this is the thought

00:51:35linear

00:51:36linear thinking

00:51:37then you

00:51:38you didn't come in

00:51:40because if not

00:51:41you would have the shoes

00:51:42stained with blood

00:51:43Right?

00:51:45no it's not like that

00:51:46you were already gone

00:51:48you had already killed

00:51:49you went dear

00:51:50you changed

00:51:51the shoes

00:51:52you deleted

00:51:53the murder weapon

00:51:55and then

00:51:56you staged

00:51:57the question

00:51:58the phone call

00:51:59of the carabinieri

00:52:00but why?

00:52:02but how do you do it?

00:52:02to reason

00:52:03in this way?

00:52:04which, moreover,

00:52:06it was easily

00:52:08demonstrable

00:52:09right away

00:52:10he was carrying it

00:52:11the aric

00:52:11Alberto

00:52:12where is it that is bypassed?

00:52:14there?

00:52:15laugh

00:52:15there are footprints

00:52:18in an instant

00:52:19it was understood

00:52:20that he said

00:52:21a lie

00:52:21if it wasn't Stasi

00:52:23who was it?

00:52:24I always have

00:52:24supported

00:52:25which was

00:52:26a hitman

00:52:27it's a murder

00:52:28of a hitman

00:52:31it is premeditated

00:52:32this murder

00:52:33it is not

00:52:33a murder

00:52:35on impulse

00:52:36that so

00:52:36this is coming

00:52:37there

00:52:37split your head

00:52:39for what?

00:52:41because there isn't

00:52:41motive

00:52:42where is the motive?

00:52:44but in this case

00:52:45At that time

00:52:45they didn't want to punish Chiara

00:52:48they wanted to punish

00:52:48someone else

00:52:49according to this idea?

00:52:51it's not that it was wanted

00:52:52punish Chiara

00:52:53they wanted to eliminate it

00:52:55a character

00:52:56which had become

00:52:56uncomfortable

00:52:58why Chiara

00:52:59was it supposed to be uncomfortable?

00:53:00Why

00:53:00probably

00:53:01had discovered

00:53:02something uncomfortable

00:53:03on whom?

00:53:07I can't say anything else

00:53:13he says

00:53:14the lawyer

00:53:16Lovati

00:53:17I can't say anything else

00:53:19in the meantime

00:53:19but

00:53:20of things

00:53:21some have been said

00:53:22and they come

00:53:24said

00:53:24among these

00:53:25those that

00:53:26they pull

00:53:27in a manner

00:53:28bossy

00:53:29in

00:53:29this

00:53:30story

00:53:31the cousins

00:53:32by Chiara Poggi

00:53:34Paola

00:53:35and Stefania Cappa

00:53:36which forced

00:53:38their father

00:53:39Ermanno Cappa

00:53:40a lawyer

00:53:41Milanese

00:53:42Very

00:53:43famous

00:53:44to trace

00:53:46a line

00:53:46and declare

00:53:47to the press

00:53:48that from a certain

00:53:49any time now

00:53:50anyone

00:53:51allusion

00:53:52to an involvement

00:53:53of his daughters

00:53:54within this story

00:53:56would have entailed

00:53:57of the consequences

00:53:58legal

00:53:59Obviously

00:54:00we are here

00:54:01to reiterate

00:54:02at the moment

00:54:03the total

00:54:04foreignness

00:54:04the absence

00:54:05of any element

00:54:07that can

00:54:07drive

00:54:09Stefania and Paola Cappa

00:54:10inside the scene

00:54:11of the crime

00:54:12connect them to the crime

00:54:14who saw

00:54:15death

00:54:16by Chiara Poggi

00:54:17let's summarize though

00:54:18all that

00:54:19that has been said

00:54:20about them

00:54:21and why

00:54:21at some moments

00:54:23they were

00:54:24brought into play

00:54:27Chiara Poggi

00:54:28she died a few hours ago

00:54:29a video

00:54:29Alberto Stasi exhibition

00:54:31that embraces

00:54:32Stefania Cappa

00:54:33in the barracks

00:54:33of the carabinieri

00:54:34the two

00:54:35they don't know

00:54:35to be taken back

00:54:36I have a second

00:54:38which is

00:54:39a flash

00:54:41they told me

00:54:43the eyes

00:54:43a flash

00:54:44era

00:54:44aside

00:54:46down

00:54:46on the scams

00:54:48it's just a flash

00:54:50I don't know

00:54:50I ran away

00:55:07a fragment

00:55:08that rekindles

00:55:09the spotlights

00:55:09not only

00:55:10about Alberto Stasi

00:55:11which still remains

00:55:12the only one convicted

00:55:13but also

00:55:14on the figure

00:55:14of the twins

00:55:15Stefania

00:55:16and Paola Cappa

00:55:17cousins of the victim

00:55:18and never investigated

00:55:19which caused discussion

00:55:21for photomontage

00:55:22that they had made

00:55:23and that portrayed them

00:55:24with her cousin

00:55:25dead a few hours ago

00:55:26placed on the gate

00:55:27of Pascoli Street

00:55:28in favor of flash

00:55:29and cameras

00:55:30she was beautiful

00:55:31solar

00:55:32it made me laugh

00:55:33he made me come

00:55:35desire to study

00:55:36she was a girl

00:55:37who loved to study

00:55:38he loved to move forward

00:55:40he taught

00:55:41everyone to this

00:55:42not exactly for everyone

00:55:43but also her boyfriend

00:55:44Alberto was like that

00:55:45it was the first

00:55:46graduate

00:55:47then brought home

00:55:48a degree

00:55:48with so much effort

00:55:50many sacrifices

00:55:51Stefania and Paola

00:55:52Chiara's cousins

00:55:53they took some flowers

00:55:54to bring

00:55:55at the villa in Garlasco

00:55:56where the young 26 year old

00:55:57the first on the left

00:55:59in the photo

00:55:59it was brutally

00:56:00killed yesterday morning

00:56:01the smashed head

00:56:03the body in a pool of blood

00:56:05to find her

00:56:05her boyfriend Alberto Stasi

00:56:09with the two of us

00:56:10I am this

00:56:11and this is her

00:56:13this is Chiara

00:56:14look

00:56:15orchids for her

00:56:16Yes

00:56:17we want to leave them in front

00:56:18At home

00:56:19Like this

00:56:20momentarily

00:56:21like a little souvenir

00:56:23but for us it will remain

00:56:24always obviously

00:56:25in the heart

00:56:25obvious

00:56:26they entered like this

00:56:28so quickly

00:56:29in this story

00:56:30from which however

00:56:30even faster

00:56:32they came out

00:56:33and to this day

00:56:33It is worth underlining

00:56:35no concrete evidence

00:56:37has he ever directly

00:56:38connected to the murder

00:56:39behind the twins

00:56:42the father

00:56:42the famous lawyer

00:56:44Ermanno Cappa

00:56:45Please

00:56:46take a step back

00:56:47you are making a fury

00:56:49that I understand

00:56:50but what is he doing to us?

00:56:52really bad

00:56:53please

00:56:54and we are in a sad moment

00:56:55in a bad moment

00:56:56we're not kidding

00:56:57we are subjects

00:56:58to a journalistic obstinacy

00:57:00that hurts us

00:57:01and so first of all

00:57:02I ask you please

00:57:03to stop it

00:57:04with this determination

00:57:12today in Garlasco

00:57:14the Cappas

00:57:15they don't come

00:57:16practically more

00:57:18the family

00:57:20escapes from the spotlight

00:57:21refugee

00:57:22between the streets

00:57:22and the buildings of Milan

00:57:24the lawyer

00:57:25Ermanno Cappa

00:57:26continues

00:57:27the work

00:57:27in his study

00:57:28in the very central

00:57:29Solferino Street

00:57:30where he works

00:57:31even the daughter

00:57:32Stefania

00:57:32I have nothing

00:57:35to be declared

00:57:36read the complaints

00:57:37that I am presenting

00:57:38and you will know everything

00:57:39we just wanted

00:57:40a free one

00:57:41what he thinks about

00:57:42of this new investigation

00:57:43but if not

00:57:44I told her

00:57:45that I don't speak

00:57:46read my complaints

00:57:48she looks

00:57:49he knows where he has to go

00:57:50yes it's a bit

00:57:51educate

00:57:52but go away

00:57:52this mother

00:57:53to rekindle

00:57:54the spotlights

00:57:55on the figure

00:57:56by Stefania Cappa

00:57:57there is an audio

00:57:57of July 17

00:57:592022

00:57:59between the ex

00:58:00marshal

00:58:01Francesco Marchetto

00:58:02and Alfredo Sportiello

00:58:04the person in charge

00:58:05of the ASM

00:58:06from Vigevano

00:58:07who managed

00:58:08the tasks

00:58:08by Marco Muschitta

00:58:16he doesn't mean shit

00:58:17he doesn't want to talk

00:58:19it's a quack from here

00:58:22it's a quack from here

00:58:24but who knows what threats

00:58:25he made it

00:58:26but

00:58:26Yes

00:58:27yes because

00:58:29It's not that you knew

00:58:31That

00:58:31he had to retract

00:58:32of everything

00:58:33not the next day

00:58:34or immediately

00:58:34you knew it

00:58:35after a while

00:58:37I have it combined

00:58:40something that happened to you

00:58:42because I

00:58:42I didn't know

00:58:43than to retract

00:58:44because I

00:58:45my number

00:58:46I'm not going

00:58:47in 2007

00:58:48he said he saw

00:58:49a girl

00:58:50blonde on a bicycle

00:58:51with a metal object

00:58:52to move away

00:58:54from the Casa Poggi area

00:58:55retracting

00:58:56all an hour later

00:59:00a conversation

00:59:01that approaches

00:59:02to that one

00:59:02of a new witness

00:59:04acquired

00:59:04in the context

00:59:05of the investigation

00:59:06which sees investigated

00:59:06Andrea Sempio

00:59:07which brought

00:59:08to new research

00:59:09and to the discovery

00:59:10of a hammer

00:59:11in a canal

00:59:12in Tromello

00:59:13right next door

00:59:14to the house

00:59:14of the grandmother

00:59:15of the K twins

00:59:16although Stefania K

00:59:17we reiterate it

00:59:19it was not investigated

00:59:20not even in this one

00:59:20new phase

00:59:21the elements

00:59:22they return

00:59:23overbearingly

00:59:24in the narrative

00:59:25of a yellow

00:59:25that almost

00:59:26twenty years later

00:59:27it's still

00:59:28hunting for answers

00:59:32and then

00:59:33we discovered

00:59:34that in the canal

00:59:35of Tromello

00:59:36of the material

00:59:37had been found

00:59:39but it had been found

00:59:40a long time

00:59:42ago

00:59:43from a worker

00:59:44from what it seems

00:59:46of Egyptian origin

00:59:48and that

00:59:49let's say

00:59:49the work

00:59:50which was carried out

00:59:51a few weeks ago

00:59:53had

00:59:53little relevance

00:59:55respect though

00:59:57to the role

00:59:57of the K twins

00:59:59it must be said

00:59:59that the testimonies

01:00:00of which we have told you

01:00:01given account

01:00:02they're coming now

01:00:03subjected

01:00:04let's say

01:00:05to a check

01:00:06of their consistency

01:00:07It is true

01:00:08it's strange

01:00:09that someone

01:00:10go

01:00:10by the investigators

01:00:12to tell

01:00:13of the circumstances

01:00:14and in the context

01:00:15of the same one

01:00:15minutes

01:00:16then say

01:00:17No

01:00:18I thought about it again

01:00:19I changed my mind

01:00:20it could mean anything

01:00:22the opposite of everything

01:00:23it's clear

01:00:24which is not up to us

01:00:25at this point

01:00:26at this moment

01:00:27evaluate

01:00:28the breadth

01:00:30of the scope

01:00:31of those statements

01:00:32but it's a bit strange

01:00:33on the basis

01:00:34of his experience

01:00:35Tarfusser

01:00:35when it is heard

01:00:38a subject

01:00:39to add information

01:00:40that fills

01:00:41one, two, three

01:00:42pages of minutes

01:00:43then after a break

01:00:45declares

01:00:45all that

01:00:46what I said before

01:00:47I made it up

01:00:48What feeling does it give you?

01:00:50But it also exists

01:00:51the crime

01:00:51of false statements

01:00:52to the public prosecutor

01:00:53so it can also

01:00:54having committed a crime

01:00:56but he would have repented

01:00:58at the same time

01:00:59let's say

01:00:59I know

01:00:59but in the meantime

01:01:00the statements

01:01:00then we'll see

01:01:03but

01:01:03I also find myself

01:01:04absolutely strange

01:01:06this

01:01:06I mean, I follow very little

01:01:08Garlasco

01:01:09because we can't take it anymore

01:01:10I

01:01:10we can't take it anymore

01:01:12no no no

01:01:12Really

01:01:13that is, I think that

01:01:14this look

01:01:15from the hole in the evening

01:01:17I find it uncivilized

01:01:19you said

01:01:20Professor Amodì

01:01:20I said

01:01:21misleading

01:01:21this media process

01:01:23she said

01:01:23perverse

01:01:24I say

01:01:24it's uncivilized

01:01:25uncivilized

01:01:26because it causes victims

01:01:27they are all victims

01:01:29here of this

01:01:30of this

01:01:31voyeurism

01:01:32that abroad

01:01:33in the countries I know

01:01:34it would be unthinkable

01:01:36truly unthinkable

01:01:37that is, how does it work abroad?

01:01:38there is no

01:01:39an audience

01:01:39interested

01:01:40to know

01:01:41how is it

01:01:41they carry out

01:01:42of the new investigations

01:01:43on such a sensational fact

01:01:44but not like this

01:01:46that is, in a way

01:01:47let's say

01:01:48of news

01:01:49journalistic

01:01:50non-investigative

01:01:52to look precisely

01:01:55from the hole in the evening

01:01:56how do you do it in this

01:01:57that is today

01:01:58here in Italy

01:01:58it's no longer possible

01:01:59not to

01:02:00not to see

01:02:01Garlasco

01:02:02that is, even if one wanted to

01:02:03that is, he

01:02:04gets hit

01:02:05anywhere

01:02:07newspapers

01:02:07televisions

01:02:08radio

01:02:08any

01:02:09any

01:02:10information medium

01:02:11we don't talk

01:02:13of social media

01:02:13I mean it's a thing

01:02:15that I find

01:02:16shameful

01:02:16I can say

01:02:17but there is

01:02:18an element

01:02:19In my opinion

01:02:20of interest

01:02:21irresistible

01:02:22in this story

01:02:23in part

01:02:24because there is

01:02:25the hypothesis

01:02:27unfortunate

01:02:28of an innocent

01:02:28that is

01:02:29Done

01:02:30many, many years

01:02:32in prison

01:02:33for a conviction

01:02:34evidently

01:02:35unjust

01:02:35if it were confirmed

01:02:37on the other

01:02:38a power of attorney

01:02:39of the Republic

01:02:40that investigates

01:02:41a subject

01:02:42which had already been

01:02:42subjected to investigation

01:02:43he understands them

01:02:44that the mix

01:02:45of these two elements

01:02:46obliges

01:02:47we journalists

01:02:48to cover

01:02:49the story

01:02:50because there is

01:02:51an interest

01:02:52very strong

01:02:52from the public

01:02:52yes but the way in which

01:02:53they cover themselves

01:02:54these events

01:02:55that is the way

01:02:56it's not the fact

01:02:58that they cover themselves

01:02:58that come out

01:02:59but when there are

01:03:00some news

01:03:01the news is given

01:03:01but this is his taste

01:03:02doctor

01:03:03the way to do it

01:03:04with the taste of the recipient

01:03:05the product

01:03:06I know

01:03:06but

01:03:07This

01:03:08the Italian taste

01:03:09it must be a bit

01:03:11of the average Italian

01:03:12it must be that

01:03:13to want at all costs

01:03:15This

01:03:16this product

01:03:17because if not

01:03:19in others

01:03:21I repeat

01:03:22in other countries

01:03:22one thing

01:03:23it doesn't happen like this

01:03:24Not

01:03:25professor

01:03:26Professor Amodio

01:03:27she who has

01:03:28let's say

01:03:28studied

01:03:29the phenomenon

01:03:31Meaning what

01:03:32several cases

01:03:33of coverage

01:03:34media

01:03:35extreme

01:03:36Of

01:03:36cases

01:03:37of news

01:03:40he noticed

01:03:41that exists

01:03:42a prevalence

01:03:43guilt-monger

01:03:44in the narrative

01:03:45and if so

01:03:46an explanation was given

01:03:48of why

01:03:48it happens

01:03:50the explanation

01:03:52what would I give

01:03:53it's in the sense

01:03:54That

01:03:54having the investigators

01:03:56awareness

01:03:58of fragility

01:03:59some clues

01:04:01that have been collected

01:04:03they need

01:04:04of a choir

01:04:05external

01:04:06to the criminal investigation

01:04:08to have

01:04:09the consent

01:04:10of public opinion

01:04:12and of course

01:04:13there is a reaction

01:04:14I'm reconnecting

01:04:16to join

01:04:18how much

01:04:19he said

01:04:20the doctor

01:04:20Taffuster

01:04:21there is a reaction

01:04:23respect

01:04:25to the trend

01:04:26of the investigations

01:04:28penalties

01:04:29just think

01:04:30This

01:04:30in the story

01:04:31which was

01:04:32remembered before

01:04:33of a witness

01:04:35that would have

01:04:35reported

01:04:36and he did it

01:04:38Also

01:04:38in a service

01:04:40television

01:04:41that one

01:04:42some cousins

01:04:43K

01:04:43it would have gone

01:04:45in that house

01:04:46Neighbor

01:04:47to a channel

01:04:48and he would have thrown away

01:04:49a lot

01:04:50with inside

01:04:51of the tools

01:04:51he forgot

01:04:53to say

01:04:53That

01:04:54who made it

01:04:55this statement

01:04:57and it is a source

01:04:58Therefore

01:04:59of this news

01:05:00he is a person

01:05:01what does he say?

01:05:02candidly

01:05:03of having learned

01:05:04this circumstance

01:05:06from a person

01:05:07dead

01:05:07This

01:05:08gives the idea

01:05:09of the distortion

01:05:11with respect to the process

01:05:12before the judges

01:05:14a statement

01:05:15of the genre

01:05:16in the process

01:05:18it would have been

01:05:19thrown away immediately

01:05:20to the nettles

01:05:20because there is a rule

01:05:22what does he say?

01:05:22that no one

01:05:23can go

01:05:24to tell

01:05:25hearsay

01:05:26by

01:05:27of another

01:05:29witness

01:05:30direct

01:05:31that can no longer

01:05:32make his

01:05:33statements

01:05:34Therefore

01:05:35that

01:05:36testimony

01:05:37which was

01:05:38repeated

01:05:38in front of the spotlight

01:05:40in front of

01:05:41to the technicalities

01:05:42has a value

01:05:43legal

01:05:44from scratch

01:05:45down

01:05:46This

01:05:47gives the measure

01:05:48of forgery

01:05:50of the investigation

01:05:52parallel

01:05:53which is done

01:05:54based on

01:05:55to the clamor

01:05:55media

01:05:57and this

01:05:58must warn

01:05:59and must make

01:06:00aware

01:06:01of necessity

01:06:02to cover

01:06:03Yes

01:06:04the news

01:06:05but to take

01:06:06always with tweezers

01:06:07what comes

01:06:08told

01:06:09Why

01:06:10around a story

01:06:12of this magnitude

01:06:13they are born

01:06:14thousand

01:06:15positions taken

01:06:17even in the country

01:06:19on the part of

01:06:20Tizio Caio

01:06:21Pempogno

01:06:21what does he say?

01:06:22but for me

01:06:23it would have gone like this

01:06:24and for me

01:06:25it would have gone like this

01:06:26then becomes

01:06:28in the tantam

01:06:29some news

01:06:30that come

01:06:30conveyed

01:06:31in court

01:06:33for me

01:06:33it happened

01:06:34exactly this

01:06:35here is the distortion

01:06:37of the process

01:06:38of act

01:06:39professor

01:06:39this question

01:06:40which is for me

01:06:41important

01:06:42exists

01:06:43a role

01:06:45Reserved

01:06:46to the press

01:06:47Of

01:06:50submission

01:06:51of power

01:06:51judicial

01:06:52at a critical glare

01:06:53that is why

01:06:54there is an absence

01:06:55total

01:06:56of a

01:06:57narration

01:06:58that can

01:06:59to nitpick

01:07:00to the exercise

01:07:01of the criminal prosecution

01:07:02Instead

01:07:02there is a prevalence

01:07:04of narration

01:07:05what does he do

01:07:05as spokesperson

01:07:07to those who practice

01:07:08the criminal prosecution

01:07:11Why

01:07:12but he already has it

01:07:13mentioned before

01:07:14the doctor

01:07:15Tarfusser

01:07:15it's a costume

01:07:17particularly

01:07:18Italian

01:07:19that

01:07:20Of

01:07:21start

01:07:22some reflections

01:07:24on this

01:07:25what's happening

01:07:25on the scene

01:07:26judicial

01:07:27And

01:07:28to capture

01:07:29the different ones

01:07:30guidelines

01:07:31innocentist

01:07:32and guilty

01:07:33and offer

01:07:34what I call

01:07:35the show

01:07:37of guilt

01:07:38Why

01:07:38the people

01:07:41waits

01:07:41let it be said

01:07:43At that time

01:07:44and a nod

01:07:45it was done

01:07:46even before

01:07:46if he is not guilty

01:07:48Stasis

01:07:48then he is guilty

01:07:50the new suspect

01:07:51I am guilty

01:07:52those girls

01:07:53which have been

01:07:54views

01:07:55with Stasi

01:07:56and then

01:07:57there is a need

01:07:59of guilt

01:08:00he's telling me

01:08:01that guilt

01:08:02it's an idea

01:08:03that is for sale

01:08:04more easily

01:08:05of innocence

01:08:07Certainly

01:08:08Certainly

01:08:09Yes

01:08:10Why

01:08:12it happens

01:08:13exactly this

01:08:14That

01:08:14above all

01:08:15in one case

01:08:16like this

01:08:16in which

01:08:17there was

01:08:18a decision

01:08:19of condemnation

01:08:20That

01:08:20below the lines

01:08:22and between the lines

01:08:24it is considered

01:08:25how wrong

01:08:26for the reasons

01:08:27what were we saying?

01:08:28Before

01:08:28then it comes

01:08:29fact of saying

01:08:30there must be

01:08:31another

01:08:32guilty

01:08:32and then

01:08:33it's the guilt

01:08:35which constitutes

01:08:36the point

01:08:36of attractiveness

01:08:37for the reader

01:08:39or for whom

01:08:40he approaches

01:08:41to others

01:08:42average

01:08:42it's the idea

01:08:43That

01:08:44through

01:08:45his

01:08:45reasoning

01:08:46through

01:08:47its

01:08:48deductions

01:08:49can arrive

01:08:50to discover

01:08:51what

01:08:52justice

01:08:53lacking

01:08:54and full of holes

01:08:55it didn't work out

01:08:56to demonstrate

01:08:57the doctor

01:08:59Tarfusser

01:09:00he formulated

01:09:01some reflections

01:09:03in recent months

01:09:04on an idea

01:09:06very widespread

01:09:07a bit

01:09:07in public opinion

01:09:08of a certain

01:09:10myth

01:09:11of infallibility

01:09:12of the legal action

01:09:14I'll make her say it

01:09:16very soon

01:09:17these things

01:09:17after a short

01:09:19break

01:09:20advertising

01:09:33and here we are again in the studio

01:09:35with the doctor

01:09:36Cuno Tarfusser

01:09:37the professor

01:09:38Amodio

01:09:38let's talk

01:09:39Of

01:09:39Garlasco

01:09:40Alberto Stasi

01:09:42convicted

01:09:43definitely

01:09:43it's difficult

01:09:45try

01:09:47to offer

01:09:48the hypothesis

01:09:49just the hypothesis

01:09:50that Alberto Stasi

01:09:51may be a victim

01:09:52of a miscarriage of justice

01:09:54even in the light

01:09:55of the investigation

01:09:56of the new investigation

01:09:58in progress

01:09:58for that

01:09:59that a little

01:10:00she called

01:10:01the myth

01:10:03of infallibility

01:10:04of the judiciary

01:10:05what does it mean?

01:10:06actually

01:10:07I called him

01:10:08the dogma

01:10:08of infallibility

01:10:09the dogma

01:10:10in the sense

01:10:11the dogma

01:10:12of infallibility

01:10:13That

01:10:13the judiciary

01:10:15a bit

01:10:15he claims

01:10:16from the Pope

01:10:18I

01:10:19evidently

01:10:20I wrote it

01:10:21I wrote a piece

01:10:22on this

01:10:24What

01:10:24evidently

01:10:25in reference

01:10:25to Rose Olindo

01:10:28but it's not alone

01:10:29Rose Olindo

01:10:30I

01:10:30if I may

01:10:31I'll give you just one example

01:10:32very short

01:10:33to explain

01:10:36to explain

01:10:38a situation

01:10:38that I

01:10:39I have to say

01:10:40it's incredible

01:10:42of that

01:10:42what's happening

01:10:43within

01:10:45of the judiciary

01:10:46At that time

01:10:47I

01:10:47I am

01:10:48in Milan

01:10:49Attorney General's Office

01:10:50I receive

01:10:52a

01:10:52for the appeal

01:10:54a sentence

01:10:55I read a sentence

01:10:56in which it was

01:10:57a lady

01:10:58she was sentenced

01:10:59for fraud

01:11:00informatics

01:11:01that is to say

01:11:02computer

01:11:02computer scam

01:11:04this lady

01:11:05I see

01:11:06at a certain point

01:11:07he was 82 years old

01:11:09computer scam

01:11:11also no

01:11:12I think so

01:11:13then I see

01:11:13who has no criminal record

01:11:14and I see

01:11:16That

01:11:16in administration

01:11:18of support

01:11:20Therefore

01:11:20I'm going to the hearing

01:11:21a hacker sui generis

01:11:22as?

01:11:23a hacker sui generis

01:11:24a hacker

01:11:24very very sui generis

01:11:26so I go to the hearing

01:11:27I lift

01:11:28these three questions

01:11:30and it seemed to me

01:11:30so obvious

01:11:32that June

01:11:32first degree

01:11:33had done

01:11:33a mistake

01:11:35blunder

01:11:36the Court

01:11:38he confirms

01:11:39the contested sentence

01:11:40confirms the sentence

01:11:42of condemnation

01:11:43of a lady

01:11:44aged 82

01:11:44for computer fraud

01:11:46a lady

01:11:47in administration

01:11:48in support

01:11:49and censored

01:11:51I

01:11:51I'm shocked

01:11:53I do

01:11:54appeal

01:11:55for Cassation

01:11:55I acquire

01:11:57Also

01:11:58the opening

01:12:00the ordinance

01:12:01opening

01:12:02of the administration

01:12:05of support

01:12:06to understand

01:12:06because it was

01:12:07in administration

01:12:07of support

01:12:08and it says

01:12:10cognitive impairment

01:12:12irreversible

01:12:13Therefore

01:12:14a lady

01:12:15with cognitive impairment

01:12:16irreversible

01:12:17aged 82

01:12:18in censored

01:12:19In my opinion

01:12:19he couldn't have done it

01:12:21a computer scam

01:12:22those are scams

01:12:23Where

01:12:23they take

01:12:24they steal

01:12:25the identity

01:12:26of a person

01:12:27and someone else

01:12:28he's scamming

01:12:29he takes advantage of it

01:12:30economically

01:12:31What does the Supreme Court do?

01:12:34What does the Supreme Court do?

01:12:35declare my appeal

01:12:36inadmissible

01:12:37Why

01:12:37she is well motivated

01:12:39the sentence

01:12:39of condemnation

01:12:40of this lady

01:12:41so Mrs. 82

01:12:42it's definitely

01:12:43condemned

01:12:44in this country

01:12:45we have a lady

01:12:46aged 82

01:12:47who will now be 85

01:12:49he will also have some

01:12:49Yes

01:12:50even more

01:12:52condemned

01:12:52for computer fraud

01:12:54I find this

01:12:55Meaning what

01:12:55I keep thinking

01:12:57which is a thing

01:12:58unimaginable

01:12:59Therefore

01:12:59here

01:13:01because of this

01:13:01I am

01:13:03saying

01:13:04and I say

01:13:05and there's not only this

01:13:07I have many others

01:13:07of episode

01:13:08the dogma

01:13:09of infallibility

01:13:10and this dogma

01:13:10How do we overcome it?

01:13:11reform of the judiciary

01:13:13justice reform

01:13:14since it's a topic

01:13:15This

01:13:16the reform

01:13:17of the judiciary

01:13:18and the judicial system

01:13:21where you go

01:13:22I hear talking

01:13:23since I entered

01:13:23in the judiciary

01:13:24of reform

01:13:25and the reform

01:13:26I haven't seen it yet

01:13:27I saw yesterday

01:13:28the declaration

01:13:29of the president

01:13:29of the Court of Cassation

01:13:30what does he say?

01:13:31which is not good

01:13:32the continuation

01:13:33criticism

01:13:34by

01:13:35of politics

01:13:37towards another

01:13:38state power

01:13:39the judiciary

01:13:40I say

01:13:41It is true

01:13:42but it's not good

01:13:43not even

01:13:43this defense

01:13:45to the bitter end

01:13:46Anyway

01:13:46Always

01:13:47to any

01:13:49reform

01:13:50by

01:13:50of the judiciary

01:13:51let's say that then

01:13:52at the end of it all

01:13:52this story

01:13:53the guilty

01:13:54let's say

01:13:55the bulk

01:13:55of responsibilities

01:13:57is attributed

01:13:58to those who do it

01:13:59our job

01:14:00Meaning what

01:14:00to responsibilities

01:14:02of the media

01:14:02of the organs

01:14:03of information

01:14:04also respect

01:14:05to the hypothesis

01:14:06that she said

01:14:07to feed

01:14:08distrust

01:14:09towards

01:14:10of the institution

01:14:10but on this

01:14:11then I

01:14:12sacrosanct

01:14:13the right to report

01:14:14and criticism

01:14:15and thank goodness

01:14:16that exists

01:14:16the free press

01:14:17who does this job

01:14:19but not

01:14:20the militant press

01:14:21that is, here we have

01:14:22the press

01:14:23pros and the press

01:14:24against

01:14:24the press

01:14:25who does the investigations

01:14:26parallel

01:14:27which obviously

01:14:29he arrives

01:14:30to generate

01:14:31this type

01:14:32of which we have

01:14:32spoken before

01:14:33of the witnesses

01:14:34that new ones arrive

01:14:35after 15 years

01:14:36jump out

01:14:37the new test

01:14:38because there are

01:14:38of people around

01:14:39that they want

01:14:40to appear anyway

01:14:41what they want to do

01:14:42the incrations

01:14:43who want to go

01:14:43on television

01:14:44that is, it exists

01:14:45this kind

01:14:45in this story

01:14:46there is also

01:14:47doctor

01:14:48there is also the case

01:14:49of witnesses

01:14:50who attempted

01:14:51to make yourself heard

01:14:52at the time

01:14:54of the facts

01:14:54and the first investigations

01:14:55they were a bit

01:14:57set aside

01:14:58they reappear

01:15:00Today

01:15:01and some

01:15:02organ

01:15:03of information

01:15:04he treats them

01:15:05as if they had

01:15:06wake up

01:15:06in 2024

01:15:08or 2025

01:15:09and this is a bit

01:15:11a representation

01:15:12which risks

01:15:12to be

01:15:13scissors

01:15:13he's wrong

01:15:14the press

01:15:15in doing this

01:15:16that is, it is not

01:15:17the craft

01:15:18that of updating

01:15:19something that is not current

01:15:20that is, the press

01:15:21he must tell the truth

01:15:22that is, it doesn't have to

01:15:24try to do

01:15:25proselytes

01:15:26for or against

01:15:27this is the point

01:15:28and must criticize

01:15:30what's happening

01:15:31don't look for

01:15:32to create

01:15:33something

01:15:34that maybe

01:15:35it wouldn't happen

01:15:36if it wasn't there

01:15:36the press

01:15:37that is, there is here

01:15:38this dynamic

01:15:39which is

01:15:40Doctor Amodio

01:15:41there is a remedy

01:15:42to degenerations

01:15:44which often

01:15:46let's say

01:15:46taking us on

01:15:48in responsibility

01:15:50are to be attributed

01:15:51to our behavior

01:15:53of operators

01:15:54of information

01:15:55but

01:15:57I believe

01:15:59That

01:15:59all this

01:16:01story

01:16:02of distortions

01:16:03media

01:16:04she is tied

01:16:05to the costume

01:16:06the costume

01:16:07on one side

01:16:08of the judiciary

01:16:09that finds

01:16:11a bank

01:16:13in the press

01:16:14guilt-monger

01:16:15on the other side

01:16:17the press

01:16:18guilt-monger

01:16:18he understands

01:16:19That

01:16:20if you make an article

01:16:22on the acquittal

01:16:23of a suspect

01:16:24excellent

01:16:26will receive

01:16:27few consents

01:16:29if instead

01:16:32it moves

01:16:33in the direction

01:16:34of guilt

01:16:36will have more readers

01:16:37Therefore

01:16:38it's a problem

01:16:39of costume

01:16:40I believe

01:16:41I do not believe

01:16:42that they can

01:16:43to be sanctions

01:16:44for example

01:16:45in certain countries

01:16:46And

01:16:47prohibited

01:16:49Do

01:16:50certain considerations

01:16:51reconstructions

01:16:52parallel

01:16:53of a process

01:16:54why all this

01:16:55it blooms

01:16:56in a moment

01:16:57or court

01:16:58that is to say

01:16:59in an offense

01:17:01revolt

01:17:02to the judges

01:17:03Therefore

01:17:04I am also

01:17:06the judges

01:17:07first

01:17:08to have to

01:17:09to carry forward

01:17:10a line

01:17:11which is the line

01:17:12which claims

01:17:13their duty

01:17:15to look

01:17:17deep

01:17:18and this happens

01:17:19very often

01:17:20deep

01:17:22a story

01:17:23judicial

01:17:24without appeal

01:17:25outside

01:17:26Here you are

01:17:27I believe

01:17:28to conclude

01:17:30on this point

01:17:31That

01:17:31sanctions

01:17:33to be asked

01:17:34towards

01:17:35of the press

01:17:36or towards

01:17:38of the judges

01:17:39they can't

01:17:40have

01:17:41a real effectiveness

01:17:42I believe

01:17:43but the times

01:17:44they are long

01:17:45in an edit

01:17:46of costume

01:17:46the magistrate

01:17:48must not

01:17:49to search

01:17:50the shore

01:17:52of guilt

01:17:54media

01:17:56but

01:17:57continues

01:17:57to do it

01:17:58and ours

01:17:59case

01:18:00that we have

01:18:01discussed

01:18:01this evening

01:18:02it's just

01:18:03emblematic

01:18:03of the fact

01:18:04That

01:18:05Despite

01:18:06poverty

01:18:07and fragility

01:18:09some clues

01:18:10that I am

01:18:11available

01:18:12of the new ones

01:18:13investigators

01:18:14it continues

01:18:15to envisage

01:18:16the existence

01:18:18of a guilty person

01:18:19which can even

01:18:20to be

01:18:20an alternative

01:18:21respect

01:18:22to Stasi

01:18:23when instead

01:18:24you know

01:18:24that having to

01:18:26exercise

01:18:26the criminal prosecution

01:18:27and that is

01:18:28having to go

01:18:29in front of

01:18:30a court

01:18:30of assizes

01:18:31first of all

01:18:32the public

01:18:33ministry

01:18:33will have to

01:18:34show

01:18:35what's there

01:18:36a reasonable one

01:18:37hypothesis

01:18:38of condemnation

01:18:39this is one

01:18:40new formula

01:18:40in this case

01:18:42in case

01:18:42from Garlasco

01:18:43Despite

01:18:44all attempts

01:18:45facts

01:18:46For

01:18:47emphasize

01:18:48clue A

01:18:49clue B

01:18:50the footprint

01:18:5133

01:18:51the footprint

01:18:5210

01:18:52actually

01:18:53there is no

01:18:55a theory

01:18:56of the case

01:18:57how do you say

01:18:58in England

01:18:59theory of the case

01:19:00Meaning what

01:19:01you do not say

01:19:02what he would have done

01:19:03Stasis

01:19:04and what would he have done

01:19:05the new suspect

01:19:07why the State

01:19:09I am

01:19:10under investigation

01:19:11involved

01:19:12Better

01:19:12both

01:19:13in the same process

01:19:14a reform

01:19:15professor

01:19:16as invoked

01:19:17from someone

01:19:17what does he say?

01:19:18prohibition

01:19:19of appeal

01:19:21for the sentences

01:19:22of acquittal

01:19:23the finality

01:19:24of the sentences

01:19:25of acquittal

01:19:26could be

01:19:27a remedy

01:19:29to prevent

01:19:30another case

01:19:31Stasis

01:19:31No

01:19:33it's a remedy

01:19:36In my opinion

01:19:36not acceptable

01:19:38Why

01:19:38this

01:19:40of the finality

01:19:41of the sentence

01:19:42of acquittal

01:19:43was

01:19:44also carried forward

01:19:45for a certain period

01:19:46from the center-right

01:19:48but it is

01:19:49something

01:19:50In my opinion

01:19:51that doesn't deserve it

01:19:52to be followed

01:19:53what he deserves

01:19:55to be followed

01:19:56And

01:19:56a system

01:19:58Instead

01:19:59on appeal

01:20:00in which

01:20:01look at yourself

01:20:02moreover

01:20:03at the

01:20:04story

01:20:06in his

01:20:07real

01:20:07manifestation

01:20:08in what

01:20:09it happened

01:20:10it happened

01:20:11essentially

01:20:12and there is no

01:20:13limits

01:20:14to watch

01:20:14the cards

01:20:15Unfortunately

01:20:16there is a trend

01:20:17reformist

01:20:18in our country

01:20:19in the sense

01:20:20to give

01:20:21relief

01:20:22to the cards

01:20:23Therefore

01:20:23we are

01:20:24essentially

01:20:26I believe

01:20:26from this

01:20:27point of view

01:20:28in an alley

01:20:29blind

01:20:30in the meantime

01:20:32in the meantime

01:20:32useless

01:20:32think

01:20:34what for?

01:20:35what an impact

01:20:35is having

01:20:36this new investigation

01:20:39on the small one

01:20:40city

01:20:40from Garlasco

01:20:41always with

01:20:42Elisa

01:20:42Santa Maria

01:20:43we're back

01:20:44on site

01:20:46and we'll tell you about it

01:20:47in this video

01:20:54Good morning

01:20:54Alberto

01:20:55I am a journalist

01:20:56I just wanted to ask you

01:20:57How are you

01:20:57I have nothing to tell you

01:20:58How are you

01:20:59how are you living

01:20:59these developments

01:21:00we have nothing to say

01:21:02you're wasting time

01:21:03to come here

01:21:04because I have nothing to tell you

01:21:06and you can't stay with me

01:21:07but on like this

01:21:09you can't do it to me

01:21:09but I understand your work

01:21:11of course

01:21:12but you also have to

01:21:13leave me alone

01:21:14you understand

01:21:14just tell me how you are

01:21:17you have to leave me

01:21:18Calm

01:21:18and go to work

01:21:19just this

01:21:20I can tell you

01:21:21I'm taking the bus now

01:21:22and I go to work

01:21:23for Italian justice

01:21:24Today

01:21:25the only culprit

01:21:26confirmed

01:21:27of the murder

01:21:28by Chiara Poggi

01:21:28he's the ex-boyfriend

01:21:29Alberto Stasi

01:21:30how do you feel

01:21:31How are you

01:21:32listen to me

01:21:34when I speak

01:21:34or you feel

01:21:35without listening

01:21:36I don't want to be

01:21:37the chosen one

01:21:37arrested in 2007

01:21:39released from prison

01:21:40for lack of evidence

01:21:41acquitted by the judges

01:21:42first and second degree

01:21:43he is sentenced

01:21:45definitively

01:21:45to 16 years of imprisonment

01:21:47for voluntary homicide

01:21:50from 2023

01:21:51in the morning

01:21:52he is released from prison

01:21:53from Bollate

01:21:53to work

01:21:54as an accountant

01:21:55and come back in the evening

01:21:56the end of the sentence

01:21:58it's fixed

01:21:58for 2030

01:21:59but it could be

01:22:00anticipated

01:22:01a couple of years

01:22:02for good behavior

01:22:03it has always been

01:22:04declared

01:22:05innocent

01:22:15Garlasco

01:22:16since that August 13th

01:22:17of 2007

01:22:18the quiet

01:22:19of this

01:22:20small town

01:22:21of the province

01:22:22Pavese

01:22:22it has been turned upside down

01:22:24the streets

01:22:25after reopening

01:22:26of the case

01:22:27by

01:22:27of the prosecution

01:22:28from Pavia

01:22:28they are back

01:22:29in the center

01:22:30of attention

01:22:31media

01:22:32a month ago

01:22:34to contain

01:22:35the arrival

01:22:35of cameras

01:22:36and reporters

01:22:37the mayor

01:22:37he signed

01:22:38an ordinance

01:22:38to impose

01:22:39the closure

01:22:39temporary

01:22:40of Pascoli Street

01:22:41a road

01:22:42no exit

01:22:43that ends

01:22:43in the fields

01:22:44of the low

01:22:45a few meters

01:22:46on the street

01:22:46that host

01:22:47about ten

01:22:48of villas

01:22:48included

01:22:49that of the crime

01:22:50hello sorry

01:22:52you live here

01:22:52No

01:22:54you passed by

01:22:56to see

01:22:56the way

01:22:57a little curiosity

01:23:01the second villa

01:23:02they closed

01:23:04the road

01:23:04he saw the ordinance

01:23:05you can no longer enter

01:23:06yes there is an ordinance

01:23:07why so many people

01:23:08he was passing by there

01:23:09besieged by journalists

01:23:10watch on the radio

01:23:12for television

01:23:13it's always like this

01:23:15they always talk about it

01:23:17away

01:23:17and what is said

01:23:18in the village

01:23:18someone says

01:23:19that maybe

01:23:21him

01:23:21it's not stasis

01:23:23he is not guilty

01:23:26a second ordinance

01:23:28he imposed

01:23:29the limitation

01:23:30of access

01:23:31to the sanctuary

01:23:31of the cocoon

01:23:32finished in the center

01:23:34of reconstructions

01:23:35related to the crime

01:23:36according to the lawyer

01:23:37Massimo Lovati

01:23:38defender

01:23:39by Andrea Sempio

01:23:40the friend

01:23:41of the victim

01:23:41finished in the center

01:23:42of the new investigations

01:23:43Clear

01:23:44she would have been killed

01:23:46why did you come?

01:23:47aware

01:23:47of what was happening

01:23:49in the sanctuary

01:23:58Its rector

01:24:00Don Gregorio Vitali

01:24:02he was a victim

01:24:02of blackmail

01:24:03sexually oriented

01:24:04orchestrated

01:24:05by two Romanians

01:24:05convicted in 2014

01:24:07for extortion

01:24:09aggravated

01:24:10but in fact

01:24:11he put

01:24:11all these ordinances

01:24:12here

01:24:13to prohibit

01:24:14the thing

01:24:15you can see

01:24:15that bothered him

01:24:20There is no corner

01:24:21from Garlasco

01:24:21that you do not report

01:24:22more or less

01:24:24legitimately

01:24:24to the crime

01:24:25it's the case

01:24:25of the house

01:24:26some cousins

01:24:27by Chiara Poggi

01:24:27and the K sisters

01:24:30Everything closed

01:24:30there is no one

01:24:33we are doing

01:24:33the tour of the house

01:24:34but here everything is closed

01:24:36everything in order

01:24:38and nothing

01:24:39It seems that the family

01:24:40K

01:24:41yes it is

01:24:44refugee in Milan

01:24:45in the house in Milan

01:24:46to escape

01:24:47probably

01:24:47the journalists

01:24:51or the bar

01:24:52of the country

01:24:52where we meet

01:24:53by chance

01:24:54the former commander

01:24:55of the carabinieri

01:24:56from Garlasco

01:24:57Francesco Marchetto

01:24:58among the first

01:24:59to investigate

01:25:00on the murder

01:25:00by Chiara Poggi

01:25:01convinced

01:25:02of innocence

01:25:03by Alberto Stasi

01:25:04and condemned

01:25:05at two years old

01:25:06and six months

01:25:06for false testimony

01:25:08for lying

01:25:09before the judge

01:25:11regard

01:25:11to the decision

01:25:12not to seize

01:25:13the bicycle

01:25:14Women's

01:25:15used by Stasi

01:25:19it was the subject

01:25:21of this attack

01:25:21media

01:25:22yes for goodness sake

01:25:23it can also be

01:25:24to have committed

01:25:25she too

01:25:26some errors

01:25:26but look

01:25:27with the breast of the then

01:25:28I the bicycle

01:25:29I would have brought it with me

01:25:30under the bed

01:25:30with the breast of the then

01:25:32Sin

01:25:33that people

01:25:33but he doesn't know

01:25:34that after

01:25:35that I have been there

01:25:36me and I did

01:25:37a relationship

01:25:39there was a date

01:25:40following

01:25:40to two searches

01:25:42issued

01:25:42from the prosecutor's office

01:25:43two decrees

01:25:45searches

01:25:45Nobody

01:25:46has ever done

01:25:46This

01:25:47Stasis

01:25:50Example

01:25:50capa

01:25:51I don't care

01:25:52Nothing

01:25:53I was interested

01:25:54to do the investigations

01:25:54which was something that was given to me

01:25:56prevented from doing

01:25:57the reopening

01:25:58of the investigation

01:25:59at 18 years old

01:26:00of the crime

01:26:00will succeed

01:26:01to put

01:26:01the final word

01:26:02to the sentence

01:26:03for this handkerchief

01:26:04country

01:26:05Lombard

01:26:06in Garlasco

01:26:07it's hope

01:26:08of many

01:26:09these days

01:26:10it can't be done anymore

01:26:11say nothing

01:26:12they suffer from it

01:26:13of all colors

01:26:13they continue to resurrect

01:26:15stuff from 20 years ago

01:26:1715 years ago

01:26:18there is no more

01:26:20to be amazed

01:26:20not at all

01:26:22you saw

01:26:23Alberto Stasi

01:26:24with ours

01:26:24Elisa Santamaria

01:26:25have no

01:26:26desire to respond

01:26:28also because

01:26:28when they were

01:26:30turn those pictures around

01:26:31it was still pending

01:26:33the judgment

01:26:33in Cassation

01:26:35on the revocation

01:26:35of semi-liberty

01:26:37which then

01:26:37it remained

01:26:39standing

01:26:40for Stasi

01:26:41Dr. Tarfusser

01:26:42reflection

01:26:43final

01:26:45we have

01:26:46a story

01:26:47that comes back

01:26:48overbearingly

01:26:49under

01:26:50the spotlights

01:26:51in the center

01:26:52of the scene

01:26:53there is an interest

01:26:54that we can

01:26:55judge

01:26:55free to do so

01:26:57but that

01:26:58it's objective

01:26:58for that

01:27:00which concerns

01:27:01the operation

01:27:02of justice

01:27:03the relationship

01:27:04what's there

01:27:04between justice

01:27:05and the information

01:27:07in the middle of

01:27:08there are those who follow us

01:27:09there is the public

01:27:10there were people

01:27:11normal

01:27:12what is the compass

01:27:14that one shouldn't

01:27:15LOSE?

01:27:17the one that doesn't

01:27:18you have to lose

01:27:19it's the compass

01:27:19of the truth

01:27:21of the truth

01:27:22true

01:27:22Meaning what

01:27:24I think that

01:27:27the public prosecutor

01:27:29must aim

01:27:30to the investigation

01:27:30of the truth

01:27:31not to find

01:27:33a guilty person

01:27:33Anyway

01:27:34or another

01:27:35guilty

01:27:35Anyway

01:27:36the initiative

01:27:36but

01:27:37of the prosecution

01:27:37from Pavia

01:27:38today

01:27:38is considered

01:27:39brave

01:27:40because somehow

01:27:42a bit

01:27:43he goes to work

01:27:44on those

01:27:44that they were

01:27:45conclusions

01:27:45of colleagues

01:27:46it's a move

01:27:46at Tarfus

01:27:47the one that does

01:27:48Napoleon

01:27:49in Pavia

01:27:50Indeed

01:27:50but I

01:27:50I'm not arguing

01:27:51maybe it would be good

01:27:52if I did it too

01:27:53someone

01:27:54in Como

01:27:55something like this

01:27:56but he will never do it

01:27:57but obviously

01:27:58but

01:27:59of course she is brave

01:28:00I believe

01:28:01That

01:28:02but he has to go

01:28:03in search

01:28:03of the truth

01:28:04that is, you have to

01:28:05close

01:28:05the sources

01:28:07information

01:28:07you have to search

01:28:08to move forward

01:28:10with the investigations

01:28:11and bring them

01:28:12to a conclusion

01:28:12whatever it is

01:28:13but without that

01:28:14all this

01:28:15come daily

01:28:19missing

01:28:20or distorted

01:28:21or in a manner

01:28:22distorted

01:28:23or less

01:28:23among the various

01:28:25information channels

01:28:27All right

01:28:27I thank

01:28:28Cuno Tarfus

01:28:29for having been

01:28:30with us

01:28:31I also thank you

01:28:32the professor

01:28:33Amodio Kingdom

01:28:34for having been

01:28:35with us

01:28:36at the border line

01:28:37it ends

01:28:38this evening

01:28:39this first one

01:28:40long season

01:28:42of border line

01:28:43very briefly

01:28:45I want to thank

01:28:46all people

01:28:48of the RAI

01:28:49that they made

01:28:50possible

01:28:50the realization

01:28:51of the episodes

01:28:53that you saw

01:28:54starting

01:28:54from February

01:28:56I won't name them

01:28:57one by one

01:28:58there are many

01:28:59and to them

01:29:00it's all going well

01:29:01my

01:29:01gratitude

01:29:02I remind you

01:29:03that all

01:29:04the episodes

01:29:04of line

01:29:05border

01:29:05you can

01:29:06review

01:29:07on RAI Play

01:29:08and listen again

01:29:09on RAI Play Sound

01:29:11I want to thank

01:29:12all of them too

01:29:13the people

01:29:14that in these

01:29:15weeks

01:29:15in these months

01:29:16they wrote

01:29:17to our email

01:29:18border line

01:29:19chiocciolarai.it

01:29:21continue

01:29:22to do it

01:29:23why the box

01:29:24by email

01:29:25in this period

01:29:26of rest

01:29:26remains open

01:29:28and we are happy

01:29:29to read you

01:29:30now stay

01:29:31on RAI 2

01:29:32why is Monica Setta there?

01:29:33with his

01:29:33Women's Stories

01:29:35at the crossroads

01:29:35we instead

01:29:36we'll see each other again

01:29:37when will it be

01:29:38the moment

01:29:39good continuation

01:29:40in the evening

Garlasco: Verità e Bugie | Linea di confine 2025

Categoria

Trascrizione

Commenti

Consigliato