Dal carcere di Bollate, l'intervista di Francesca Fagnani a Roberto Savi, membro della Banda della Uno bianca.
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#BelveCrime #BandaDellaUnoBianca #UnoBianca #Belve #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime
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00:00He is the leader of the infamous Uno Bianca gang, 24 dead, more than 100 injured, 103 criminal acts.
00:08He has never spoken up to now and in this interview he makes some revelations that could open up a long-term
00:1632 years of new scenarios.
00:18Roberto Savi. But first, our Elisa Trucraini introduces us to the story.
00:26From 1987 to the autumn of 1994, between Emilia Romagna and Marche, it was enough to see a white Fiat Uno slow down to feel
00:37terror.
00:37The Uno Bianca gang strikes without respite, 103 criminal actions, 24 deaths and over 100 injured in robberies
00:47armed force, sudden attacks and ruthless murders.
00:51Victims could be anyone: a policeman on patrol, a gas station attendant, a passerby, an inconvenient witness.
00:59Then, on January 4, 1991, in the Pilastro district of Bologna, a Carabinieri patrol came across the bandits.
01:08It ends in a massacre. Corporals Otello Stefanini, Andrea Moneta, and Mauro Mitillini are hit by a barrage of bullets.
01:17and then finished off with a shot to the back of the head.
01:19The Pilastro massacre shatters all illusions. If even three men in uniform can be killed, no one is truly safe.
01:28The investigations are following false leads, especially those of organized crime.
01:33But in the autumn of 1994, two investigators from Rimini follow a trail that leads to Fabio Savi and then to
01:42brother Roberto, assistant chief of police serving at the Bologna police headquarters.
01:47Comparisons with the case file, photographs, and identikits strengthened the suspicions. A few days later, Roberto Savi was arrested.
01:56Then Fabio, Alberto Savi and the other members of the group also ended up in handcuffs.
02:01The Uno Bianca gang is not an enemy from outside, it is a criminal group that grew within the state.
02:09Five of its six members were police officers.
02:13Thanks, Elisa. We met Roberto Savi at the Bollate Penitentiary, where he's serving a life sentence. Let's see.
02:27Roberto Savi, listen, this is the first time you've done an interview.
02:31Yes.
02:33And we invited her, we proposed this interview.
02:36May I ask you why, after so much time, you accepted and decided to do it at this time?
02:43It's time to listen, in short.
02:47Did she feel like talking or listening?
02:51Not so much about talking.
02:55Shall we try?
02:56We'll try.
02:58Listen, what do you imagine or what would you like to be understood more about this whole story after this interview or
03:10her?
03:11I'm not expecting anything.
03:13Don't you expect anything?
03:14No.
03:15Was he told everything?
03:16Not everything.
03:19Listen, how many years have you been in prison? 32?
03:22Yes.
03:23Except, of course, for the victims' families who can't forget who she is.
03:29They're happier, aren't they?
03:31Why are they happier?
03:32I've been in prison for 32 years, which means they're happier.
03:35It is natural for people who have been found guilty to feel reassured that justice will be served,
03:45No?
03:45With sentences of death and injury to their families.
03:50What kind of perception do you think people have of you outside?
03:55I don't have a problem with them.
03:57She says, I don't care what people think, she says.
04:01Not much.
04:01You, your brothers and your accomplices, let's say, from the gang, have put into action an impressive series of
04:09robberies, ambushes, murders, for a total of 103 criminal actions, 24 deaths and more than 100 injured.
04:15So, when you listen to these numbers again after a long time, what do you think?
04:21And I don't have to do anything to myself.
04:23It would have been better if it hadn't happened.
04:26Well, I have to make a premise, not for you who know the story, but for those who listen and remember that
04:33what was the Uno Bianca gang,
04:35which is the story, let's say, of a very long trail of blood that involved above all the provinces of Bologna, Rimini
04:41and Pesaro between 19 June 1987 and 21 November 1994, the day on which you were
04:49arrested.
04:50The gang was mainly composed of five people, four policemen, her, her brother Alberto Nocchipinti, Pietro Gugliotta and a civilian,
05:00who was his other brother Fabio Savi.
05:03Another policeman then entered, but for a limited period, and he was Luca Ballicelli.
05:09She was considered the leader, the boss of this gang, also because let's say that she is also the brother
05:16major, right?
05:18So he expressed natural leadership.
05:21Maybe that. Maybe they considered me older, but that's not the case.
05:28Isn't that right? Why? Who was the leader then, if not her?
05:33There was no leader.
05:35There was no leader.
05:37Was it equal?
05:39Equal.
05:39But let's say that the idea of ​​starting to commit robberies and the bosses, at least you three brothers were, in a
05:47a certain Cugliotta, in a certain Occhipinti.
05:50The robberies in seven years totalled 22 banks, 18 motorway toll booths, 20 petrol stations and 15 supermarkets.
06:00of which 9 cops, 9 post offices, a tobacconist's, an armory.
06:04The gang's name comes from the type of car you mostly used, right?
06:11And that is, small cars.
06:12Why did you choose this type of machine?
06:16For the community.
06:17The community is defused.
06:20Why do you say they were very common and therefore less conspicuous?
06:25She grew up in a family that never made a secret of its political views.
06:33Let's say they are lies because his father Giuliano was keen to say that he had participated in punitive squads during the
06:44war,
06:44He will also tell the media during, let's say, when he gave interviews, that his dream was to be part of Gladio
06:50and to hate gypsies and blacks.
06:52I say what he said, eh.
06:54Can we say this among a family, let's say, openly belonging to a nostalgic right-wing movement?
07:00There is no politics.
07:04At your father's house, you were all passionate about guns. At what age did you learn to shoot?
07:12I taught myself, kind of once.
07:15Listen, did all three of you brothers want to join the force, to join the police force?
07:22You and Alberto succeeded, Fabio couldn't due to a vision problem.
07:27Why did you want to join the police force?
07:31I got into it because I left home.
07:34But there are many jobs, right?
07:36All three of you tried to join the police force, so there was a reason, that is, you obviously liked that world.
07:42The other two maybe, not particularly to me.
07:46And why then did you want to join the police?
07:49Leave home, because there were beatings at home.
07:55Who beat her at home?
07:58But dad, mom.
08:01They took turns going.
08:02To her and all three brothers or just to her?
08:07But to me in particular, maybe because they were older then.
08:10For that?
08:15In 1977 you were assigned to the Bologna police headquarters, where you remained until your arrest, right?
08:23Until 1994, so you remained at the Bologna police headquarters for 17 years.
08:28And he was assigned first to the patrol cars and then to the operations center.
08:35Yes, I worked at the operations center for a few months.
08:38In the meantime she got engaged in 1979 with Anna Maria Ceccarelli and got married in 1984, the year in which she was born.
08:46your only son Simone.
08:49We went to live together in a very small apartment of 38 square meters a stone's throw from the arrival station of Bologna, in via
08:55Signorini 11,
08:57in a precarious economic situation.
09:02Up to this point his life, let's say, was apparently normal.
09:06At what point did you choose to change your life, to embrace a life of crime?
09:16When he found me he decided to commit robberies.
09:20And how does it happen that someone decides to commit robberies?
09:23How do you say to each other, look each other in the face and say now let's do the robberies?
09:27If someone's a cop, you understand?
09:29Because you didn't come from a background of robbers?
09:33But we found each other, we need money, yes.
09:37The money has to be taken from someone.
09:40It was born like this.
09:41Alberto, his brother, Alberto Savin, an interrogation declared.
09:46I started committing robberies because I wanted to have more money available.
09:51It was my brothers, Roberto and Fabio, who suggested I do the robberies.
09:56Roberto especially convinced me.
09:58Everyone is equally convinced.
10:01Only you three brothers take part in the first robbery.
10:05June 19, 1987 at the Pesaro toll booth.
10:10It's 11:15 pm.
10:11The first loot is 1,300,000 lire.
10:15A week later comes Riccione, always the toll booth, 2,400,000 lire.
10:20Why did you start with the toll booth operators?
10:23Because there it was simple.
10:24Was it simpler?
10:25And why was it easier to rob toll booth workers than in any other context, I don't know?
10:31Because it is a transit point.
10:33A car that passes like all the others, almost nobody saw it.
10:37So how did it work?
10:38Were you approaching by car?
10:41How does it work?
10:42I approached it and instead of paying for the ticket I took the money from it.
10:46Was it a robbery?
10:48Wasn't Matteo the toll collector at the counter?
10:51It was a gun, the one he had in his hand, that made him say.
10:54Ah, here it is.
10:56Listen, when you started your criminal activity, did you plan on killing?
11:03No.
11:05This was no.
11:06Then it became yes and it was a disaster.
11:11However, the robberies continued throughout 1987 until the attempted extortion in Cesena.
11:18to a car dealer and this attempted extortion ends with a firefight with the police.
11:28Ah, yes, a radio dealer.
11:30All three officers were injured and Mosca later died from his wounds.
11:37Yes, because there were three or four role-playing cars following behind.
11:44Here you are.
11:46Was it all worth it for you, as a man in uniform, to shoot another man in uniform?
11:50No, it's okay, they say.
11:52It wasn't supposed to be done.
11:53But no, look, can I tell you this?
11:56This goes for the whole interview, right?
11:58Nothing you did was to be done because you killed, you wounded.
12:01So there was nothing to be done.
12:03But the question was different.
12:04What did it mean to her to shoot a man in uniform like her?
12:09Eh, a bone dealer who was with him.
12:15At that point, one person was dead, a police officer,
12:21your bar had been raised a lot, they were no longer simple toll booth robberies,
12:26but you made, let's say, a criminal leap, didn't you?
12:29From '88 onwards.
12:30In fact, we move on to post offices, supermarkets, especially to the cups.
12:36So much so that in '88 you kill two, in four months,
12:39Kill two security guards and two carabinieri in Castel Maggiore.
12:46Why do you keep going instead of stopping?
12:50Why are you raising the crime rate so high?
12:54That is, you can sign instead, raise the level.
12:56It changed because the toll booths were simpler, the robberies were simpler.
13:01We moved on to a slightly more complicated, slightly more difficult Alpine.
13:06But why didn't you stop? When did the deaths begin?
13:12I don't know, I haven't thought about it.
13:16The murder of the two Carabinieri in Castel Maggiore carries with it a huge mystery because
13:21they got closer, you opened fire.
13:27Only there was a very strange and never clarified diversion because in that case
13:32another carabiniere, Brigadier Macauda, ​​purposely inserted a cartridge case
13:38in the car that you had used, which you had then abandoned and which had been seized.
13:45And then he had a series of cartridge cases of the same type found
13:49at the homes of other criminals.
13:52This is to divert suspicion from you.
13:57I don't know, I never know the cause.
14:00Well, let's say, she carefully attended all the hearings.
14:03Yes, yes.
14:04So he knows about this diversion because...
14:05But what can I do about it, I don't know.
14:07...he was obviously dismissed from the force, he was convicted,
14:12but he never explained the reason for this diversion.
14:16Well, you won't tell me, but I want to ask you another question.
14:20Now you won't tell me why this policeman misled you.
14:27I never know who it is, I don't know him.
14:32And you have no idea why, say, a crime committed by you was covered up?
14:38I do not know.
14:41So, can I ask you if you decide not to tell me?
14:44and this is an interview, not a courtroom?
14:49Or I can't tell her what...
14:50Or, no, no, the question was whether he really doesn't know or doesn't want to say.
14:56I do not know.
14:58But what do I have to...
15:01That one is Sicilian.
15:03Look, from that point on, your armed assaults are real, right?
15:08In which during these assaults, let's say, the main element was the terror that was generated.
15:15The third phase of the gang begins, which was later defined as the terrorist phase.
15:19You target immigrants, nomads, you shoot at them and kill them for no reason.
15:29Until she finally got to the point of attacking a police office with explosives at 9am in Bologna.
15:39An assault that will result in 50 injuries.
15:42I mean, that was a different phase, it had begun.
15:45Where you spread terror.
15:49And that's why...
15:52Palicelli didn't do any more rapids, then...
15:55Wasn't he good?
15:57No, he continued, he says, I don't feel like it, enough, go.
16:01And why did she continue to feel it?
16:03That is, let us remember that at the end of this parable 24 people died, more than 100 were injured.
16:08Why did she, death after death, continue to feel like doing those things?
16:16Who sowed blood and terror everywhere?
16:20Why did he feel it?
16:21She yes and Ballicelli no.
16:25I don't know.
16:27I don't know.
16:28And it happened that people killed without reason, right?
16:31That is, do you remember Adolfo Alessandrini?
16:34who had simply shouted at you criminals,
16:36had he seen a car swap?
16:38I don't know.
16:39Or Primo Zecchi, who had noted the license plate?
16:44Your license plate was given to me as a stolen car, so...
16:47And you shot them both?
16:50I mean, as if killing has no effect on you?
16:54How did she feel after a murder?
16:58Not good.
17:00One of the episodes that really marks a turning point in the perception of what you were is the Pillar Massacre.
17:10A very complicated neighborhood of Bologna at the time is January 4, 1991.
17:16A story that is still not entirely clear.
17:20That night you three brothers unloaded on three very young policemen,
17:26and the oldest was 22 years old.
17:29So many shots, 36, that they were completely unrecognizable.
17:35You were there at the pillar above, with a stolen car, as you often did.
17:41But why were you at the pillar?
17:43That is, the Pillar wasn't a neighborhood where you could rob someone, it was a tough, peripheral neighborhood.
17:49Because you can't order, you can order.
17:52To whom?
17:54There is the commercial city, there are banks.
17:57Was it night?
17:59Well, we were taking some cars out, something.
18:02That was a massacre, wasn't it?
18:04You unloaded on these poor policemen, who had just overtaken you,
18:10it's not that there was a, let's say, there wasn't a firefight.
18:13They overtook you, you unloaded all these shots at the window,
18:18then you came down to give the coup de grace, it was an execution, it was an ambush.
18:24It's an ambush, they reached it, they overtook it, and then they were stopping,
18:28that's where he was offering weapons, and what did I do?
18:32But the police hadn't even identified you yet, they had just passed you?
18:37That is, there had been no identification, they had just passed you, there was no reason.
18:42Why did you kill them?
18:46Because instead of leaving, they stopped them and started shooting.
18:50But were you the ones who started shooting and not them?
18:54They shot too.
18:56They tried to react somehow, but they couldn't.
19:00Well, okay.
19:03Look, there was also talk of the presence of other individuals there at the pillar.
19:08I don't know.
19:11She said, at that point you had killed three policemen, you killed two more,
19:17you had killed a cleaner and many civilians.
19:20She says that after the pillar she wanted to stop living this life,
19:24and Fabio told him that he would continue on his own,
19:27and even if not explicitly, she said in an interrogation
19:31I felt subtly blackmailed, if not explicitly,
19:35but Fabio told him to continue with other people, if you want to stop.
19:40He wants me to stop a little early, that's okay too.
19:44That's how it went.
19:44And why did he continue?
19:49If he wanted to quit.
19:51Eh, the hand, he took our hand, he goes on.
19:57What did she like about the life you led?
20:01Well, nothing, he lost everything.
20:04What do you want me to say?
20:05Precisely.
20:08I mean, the money you earned, what did you do with it?
20:11But not even that much money.
20:16No.
20:18So why did you continue?
20:24I do not know.
20:26We've come this far, haven't we?
20:29Why not say something more?
20:35How was it possible that you were there for seven years?
20:40Were you there in that area, between Bologna, Rimini, Pesaro?
20:44Were you moving there?
20:45Seven years is a long time, 24 deaths is a long time, all those injuries.
20:49How is it possible that they didn't catch you?
20:52Well, he must have asked himself that.
20:55You were a policeman, right?
20:58Was it that impossible to catch you?
21:03So they tried their best, they couldn't find us, they couldn't catch us.
21:09And didn't it seem strange to you?
21:11Yes, a little bit.
21:13Not a little bit.
21:14For me, yes, but I ask her.
21:21During the trial she first confessed everything, then recanted.
21:25It's true that he said the exact opposite of everything, right?
21:28But among the various statements she made, she referred to a third level,
21:35that is, this is what happened in the Pesaro court during the hearing on June 21, 1995.
21:40That says, at a certain point in the story some characters who are not criminals entered the picture,
21:48who guaranteed us the coverage of the investigative network.
21:53She said that, huh?
21:56Yes, I remember saying that.
21:59Is what he said true?
22:01Yes.
22:02Yes.
22:04Yes.
22:06Did you feel safe moving?
22:11Enough?
22:13Enough, but not quite.
22:21Listen, anyway, about what we were talking about, right?
22:25Investigations are underway to reopen the case, right?
22:28From the Uno Bianca gang.
22:30Yes, they're coming, I don't know.
22:33On one hand there are the sentences that establish you as the only ones responsible,
22:38on the other hand, that is, you members of the band,
22:41on the other hand, there is the suspicion, especially raised by the committee of the victims of the Uno Bianca,
22:46that this story must be placed within the broader framework of the strategy of terror.
22:54From the?
22:55Of the strategy of tension, of the strategy of terror.
23:00Is it right to think that we need to investigate this whole affair further?
23:05Her too?
23:06I don't know, they never touch the investigations.
23:08But she's there.
23:09I risked them, they condemned us.
23:13But she's there.
23:14There are others who are looking.
23:16And are they doing well?
23:18I do not know.
23:19That is, when you talk about an investigative network that somehow needs to be covered up?
23:32Listen, there is one last episode to mention because it is emblematic.
23:36On May 2nd 1991, in the very central, very crowded,
23:41Via Volturno in Bologna, which was right in the centre,
23:45She and her brother Fabio decide to rob a gun shop
23:49to get two guns.
23:51By the way, let's say, you were a bit full of guns,
23:54anyway, when they arrested her, she had a garage that was an arsenal in Santa Barbara.
24:01Come in and after you steal these guns,
24:05kill the owner of the armory,
24:07that Cianzalù was there,
24:08Cianzalù was there in his collaborator,
24:09a former carabiniere,
24:10Peter Capolungo.
24:13Even here there was no need to kill because...
24:16Capolungo yes.
24:17Why?
24:18Little carabiniere.
24:21Ah, so you had to kill him because he was a policeman?
24:25That is, the motive for the murder...
24:27There wasn't like that,
24:29it had been there for a long time.
24:31And why did he tell me yes,
24:32was there a need to kill Capolungo instead?
24:34Why?
24:35Because he's doing something with Mandela.
24:38What?
24:40Now he's dead,
24:41there's no point in going looking now.
24:45That is, the reason was not robbery,
24:47was it something else?
24:48But look...
24:50You certainly didn't need two...
24:52Who had the robbery and the gun
24:53he never had anything but the gun in that house.
24:55Exact.
24:59But it was good to take it that way,
25:01you put it that way, okay.
25:02Sorry, no, but it's an opportunity to understand,
25:05that is, you entered to aim at him,
25:08evidently not to others.
25:11It was the target, it was him.
25:13Yes.
25:15Here you are.
25:16Why?
25:20I mean, what was the reason?
25:22But it was all, all, all, all,
25:24a set of things between states,
25:26because then he was an ex of the...
25:32an ex?
25:34He worked for the Carabinieri.
25:36A former carabiniere, yes.
25:37Yes, no, it's true,
25:38former member of the Carabinieri special services.
25:41Which?
25:42Secret services of the weapon,
25:44what are they called.
25:48So was there a specific reason?
25:52Yes, because the tour of...
25:57of weapons,
25:58there was a whole turn of things,
26:00of people passing by,
26:01they entered,
26:01they went to that armory of...
26:03There was a round of arms,
26:04of people entering that armory.
26:06Yes.
26:08And why did it bother you?
26:10What was...
26:11Not to me.
26:12Not to me.
26:13Not to her,
26:14but if you deleted it,
26:15maybe they asked you to do it.
26:17I'm working for you right now,
26:19but I'm telling you how it happened.
26:21Did they ask you to delete it?
26:26Then I have no excuse,
26:28take him out somehow,
26:29with excuses we take,
26:30tell her to give you a gun,
26:32and then there's a gun of his.
26:34I wanted to help me understand,
26:37somehow it happened that you
26:40you did something,
26:41some action,
26:42why asked by others?
26:44Okay, because we...
26:46it was always the weapon that was...
26:49because guns and police are the same thing.
26:53But with or...
26:54in this case...
26:55I'll do the police,
26:57the weapon,
26:59finances,
26:59all those who are.
27:02but there was something...
27:03There are special offices
27:05that have some...
27:08An apparatus,
27:09let's say,
27:10Of...
27:10An apparatus on,
27:11and mine in front of those who sometimes
27:14he did a job there.
27:17That every now and then...
27:19I haven't heard at all...
27:20I haven't heard at all...
27:20Meanwhile they were called
27:22to unload those things,
27:23that one there,
27:24and let's do it like this,
27:26let's do it this way.
27:28You were called by certain apparatuses
27:30to do things,
27:31as in this case.
27:32Yes.
27:35Here you are,
27:36Therefore...
27:37when talking about a level
27:40superior to yours...
27:41Not for everything.
27:42Not for everything.
27:43Not for everything.
27:44For some things.
27:46Not for all robberies,
27:48for some things.
27:50But here it is,
27:51you went here on purpose.
27:52She said it,
27:53I didn't need the weapons,
27:54the target was him.
27:55No,
27:56I didn't need the weapons,
27:58the goal.
27:58But precisely,
27:58the goal,
27:59she said it was him,
28:00because they asked us
28:02to eliminate it.
28:04Well,
28:05It's not that I have to say it,
28:06if she is not alone,
28:07if they didn't get there on their own,
28:08what do you want from me?
28:10On what other occasion
28:11she was asked
28:12something like that?
28:13To take action,
28:15Why
28:17not for everyone,
28:18you have done many of them on your own,
28:19others have asked you for them.
28:21Some others yes,
28:22but...
28:23Like this.
28:25which I had one
28:26because then it is particular,
28:27because there is the armory,
28:28because there is Luca,
28:29the scarabinieres.
28:30If Luca wasn't alone
28:31a former carabiniere,
28:32was former
28:34of the secret services.
28:44Other devices
28:46of services
28:47they asked you
28:49to act in the armory
28:50or who?
28:52he was often in Rome.
28:54Did she come to Rome often?
28:56Yes,
28:57every week.
28:59I was passing two,
29:00three days in Rome.
29:02And why?
29:02Who was he supposed to talk to?
29:04Who was he talking to?
29:05Who I was talking to.
29:10can you help us understand?
29:12Huh?
29:13Help us understand,
29:14Roberto?
29:20Yes,
29:21In short,
29:22they helped us,
29:23they made us get caught,
29:24they got us caught.
29:26That's how they ran.
29:28Did they have them arrested?
29:31Yes,
29:31in the end,
29:32Yes.
29:36Those who first
29:37they asked you
29:37to do?
29:38Huh?
29:39Who am I,
29:40who had you arrested?
29:42But I understand it.
29:44Meaning what,
29:45you felt
29:46betrayed?
29:47The final
29:47it was one,
29:48then there were the others,
29:49then there was the final.
29:50Each one
29:51he had his,
29:52his.
29:53But she,
29:54can I ask you,
29:54you had relationships
29:55with everyone
29:56of these
29:57departments
29:58or you had some people
29:59of reference
30:00what were you talking about?
30:01sometimes not,
30:01sometimes not,
30:03they came regularly
30:05that they asked you
30:06to do.
30:07And they said
30:07that this is so,
30:08this is so,
30:09this is so,
30:10everything like that.
30:11Who was he supposed to talk to?
30:13when was he coming to Rome?
30:15I had to come to Rome,
30:16I was going down
30:18at the,
30:19there was the altar
30:21of the homeland,
30:22there was the little fountain,
30:23the appointment was there.
30:26Then if I went down,
30:27they were down on me,
30:29Piazza Venezia,
30:30there,
30:31that area.
30:32But with whom?
30:34Everyone was
30:35the people
30:36who worked
30:37for us.
30:38People who worked
30:39for you?
30:40For us,
30:41they worked for them
30:42more than anything else.
30:43I was going down
30:44to talk to them.
30:45But when he says
30:46he worked for them,
30:47who are they?
30:48The services?
30:50Well yes,
30:53those who worked
30:54for the various
30:55groups,
30:58give an example
30:59to make myself understood.
31:01Help me.
31:16he lets himself be carried.
31:18Don't you feel like it?
31:22He said
31:23a lot, huh?
31:25Huh?
31:25He said,
31:27he didn't clarify,
31:28but it took
31:29to make it clear
31:30many things
31:31this evening.
31:33Listen,
31:33After
31:33seven years
31:35of impunity,
31:36November 3rd
31:37of 94,
31:38two cleanings
31:39from Rimini,
31:40Luciano Baglione
31:41and the assistant
31:41Peter Costanza,
31:43they intercept
31:44nearby
31:44of a bank
31:45that they were
31:46observing,
31:47because they were observing
31:48the goals
31:49which could have been
31:49the same
31:50of the White Uno,
31:53they intercept
31:54just a car,
31:55a white Uno
31:56that slows down
31:57in front of this bank.
31:58This is not the truth.
32:00Isn't that the truth?
32:01No.
32:03Why
32:03the country
32:04of Santa Cance
32:05in those unique ones
32:06of the market
32:07that was all
32:08closed
32:08from transcending,
32:10the states
32:10that they did
32:11see what they did
32:12they were not passable
32:13in the car.
32:14that afternoon
32:15the White Uno
32:17it would have stopped
32:18in front of this Uno Bianca.
32:19They were stationed there
32:21Costanza and Baglioni
32:22that at that point
32:23they would have followed
32:24that car.
32:26She was a type.
32:27She was a type,
32:28All right,
32:28in the sense that
32:29he is...
32:32She was a type,
32:33they would have followed
32:33this type
32:34up to Torriana,
32:37Meaning what
32:37at the address
32:38by Fabio.
32:39In the archives
32:40there was a single
32:40frame
32:41which he had,
32:41that they had succeeded
32:42to frame
32:44during a robbery
32:45a camera
32:46which was exactly
32:46Fabio's.
32:47They compare it
32:49with Fabio
32:50which they had already seen,
32:51No?
32:52And Fabio
32:53they recognize it
32:54as a component
32:55of the band
32:56of the White Uno
32:57at that point
32:57they date back to her
32:58they date back to Alberto.
33:01This is not the truth.
33:03No.
33:04And what is it?
33:05The truth is that
33:06my brother was
33:08more stupid
33:09of what there is.
33:10more stupid
33:11of that
33:11that it seems.
33:12And that is
33:13how it was done
33:13to peck?
33:14My brother
33:15he told
33:16everything to Eva.
33:18Eva Mikula
33:19which was his
33:20fiancée.
33:21Then he brought
33:22to go for walks
33:23around
33:24where it happens
33:24what happened
33:25This,
33:26that,
33:26He talked too much.
33:27He talked too much
33:28and transformed it
33:29in a witness.
33:31This one here
33:31Paci said it
33:32who is the president
33:33of the PM
33:35Yes,
33:36BDM.
33:38and says
33:39we went
33:40when we have it
33:41loaded into the car
33:42that brought us
33:42over there
33:43she was arriving
33:44and says
33:44I that,
33:45This,
33:45that,
33:46the other.
33:46Sorry for everything.
33:49Okay but
33:50this was
33:50the truth.
33:52No,
33:53I want to protect them
33:54precisely because
33:54they think that
33:55someone
33:55he would do it
33:56but it's not necessary
33:56to nothing.
33:57I did not understand
33:58what does he say
33:58it's not necessary
33:59to nothing.
34:00But it's not necessary
34:04other.
34:05Anyway
34:06in the evening
34:06of November 21st
34:07of 94
34:08she
34:10knows
34:11that they would have it
34:12arrested
34:12also because
34:13Fabio warns her
34:14which followed
34:15No?
34:18You had
34:18a way
34:19to communicate
34:19in the car
34:20No?
34:20A transceiver
34:21in the car
34:22Fabio knows
34:23Fabio warns her
34:24which followed
34:25she has a shift
34:27Anyway
34:28in service.
34:29At this time
34:30he accepted it
34:30at this time.
34:31She knew
34:32that they would have it
34:32arrested?
34:33Yes.
34:34Was it certain?
34:35Yes.
34:36And he introduces himself
34:37in service
34:38not only
34:38with his
34:38pistol
34:39by order
34:40but with
34:40another gun
34:41with two pistols
34:41with two pistols
34:43and three magazines
34:46Yes.
34:46Eh
34:46Meaning what
34:47it's not that it turns around
34:48with three magazines
34:49unless one
34:49does not foresee
34:50No?
34:51To answer
34:51Fire
34:52she too
34:53he says
34:53if I had wanted
34:54I could have
34:55take you all out
34:55I didn't do it
34:56because you are friends
34:57and colleagues
34:58she when
34:58he introduced himself
34:59in service
35:00knowing that
35:01they would have it
35:01arrested
35:02he brought himself
35:02three magazines
35:03for the eventuality
35:04to answer
35:04Fire
35:07I'm shooting it
35:08wait for it
35:10if he doesn't want to
35:10start
35:12Alright
35:12it didn't go well
35:13always like this
35:13in this case
35:14yes it was
35:17but he would have
35:19answered
35:19Fire
35:20Yes
35:21they were shooting at me
35:23Yes
35:23and instead
35:24it didn't happen
35:25so she
35:25he didn't shoot
35:26because they
35:26they have it
35:27arrested
35:28without use
35:29of weapons
35:29they called me
35:31come here
35:31Roberta
35:32that we have to
35:32speak
35:33alright
35:34I know what you want
35:34alright
35:35I'm coming
35:35and there
35:37they asked
35:37everything
35:38I said
35:39alright
35:39but you were
35:40you
35:42and she
35:43who said
35:44I do not know
35:45like today
35:46I do not know
35:47I do not know
35:50and at that point
35:51and then
35:54they asked him
35:56to deliver
35:56Obviously
35:57the gun
35:58alright
35:59then there was
36:00a kidnapping
36:00next
36:01at his house
36:02and they found
36:03in that garage
36:03over 200 million
36:05but
36:07ammunition
36:08of all kinds
36:08galaxies
36:09of coffee weapons
36:10of all
36:10the types
36:11of 200 million
36:12Anyway
36:12how many millions
36:14someone did
36:15the little hospital
36:18how many millions
36:19they were
36:19At that time
36:19they were almost
36:20500
36:24I would say
36:24Like this
36:25I'm like that
36:25they found
36:28has she ever done it?
36:30when he did
36:30the searches
36:31from ammunition
36:32No
36:32it wasn't
36:33the craft
36:34to carry out searches
36:36he preferred to do
36:37the robberies
36:37at gunpoint
36:41listen
36:43she
36:43the arrest
36:44he was waiting for her
36:44he had put it
36:46on account
36:46from the beginning
36:47the arrest
36:47No
36:47as
36:49would be
36:49arrived
36:50a bit
36:50Before
36:51evidently
36:54evidently
36:57listen
36:59she has
37:00a son
37:01what is called
37:02Simone
37:02Yes
37:04how long
37:06he doesn't feel it
37:07also feeling
37:08Now
37:09I'm feeling
37:09listen
37:10what a relationship
37:11there is with Simone
37:14it seems a bit
37:15improve
37:15Better
37:16improved
37:17it has improved
37:18the relationship
37:19over time
37:19between her
37:19and his son
37:20Yes
37:21but also
37:22my wife
37:22I don't have any
37:23skiing
37:25you are not
37:26Together
37:27we are not
37:28Together
37:28I left her
37:30Meaning what
37:31you have a relationship
37:32do you still hear from each other?
37:35I didn't leave her
37:36I didn't leave her
37:37to avoid
37:37that someone
37:38went around
37:39annoying
37:40It's me
37:41that has problems for me
37:42it's right
37:43that I'm not going
37:43around them
37:44listen
37:46Simone
37:47he chose
37:47to change
37:49surname
37:50he did well
37:51he did well
37:52Yes
37:55how is it explained?
37:56to a son
37:57how did she do it
37:58to explain
37:58to a son
37:59his story
38:00what happened
38:01what he did
38:02Oh
38:02my story
38:04who understands it
38:05history like mine
38:06but what he did
38:07how did she tell it?
38:08to a son
38:09to his son
38:10we didn't talk about it
38:12in 32 years
38:13you have never
38:15why on the phone
38:16I trust to speak
38:17to tell things
38:21she would like to say
38:22some things
38:22to his son
38:23but that
38:24he doesn't trust
38:24to say on the phone
38:25Yes
38:26but
38:26not by phone
38:27Why
38:28because they can
38:29intercept her
38:32and then
38:33she would like
38:34that his son
38:35knew something
38:36in addition
38:36compared to history
38:37that everyone knows
38:38something
38:38he will know more
38:39he will know
38:40in person
38:41he will be free
38:42to come here
38:43why now
38:44in the pond
38:44of the streets
38:45Poland
38:45he can't leave her
38:46that he does it
38:47Certain
38:48he doesn't tell us
38:48but
38:49what would you like?
38:50that his son
38:51knew
38:56something
39:00there is
39:01him and his mother
39:03they were calm
39:04it doesn't come like that
39:06that is, they were
39:07leave yourself alone
39:08this is what you want to tell me
39:10she was worried
39:13that someone
39:14he didn't leave them
39:15calm down
39:15he was scared
39:17that someone
39:18he didn't leave them
39:19calm down
39:22someone
39:22of people
39:23to whom he made
39:24of the sea
39:24or someone else
39:26I don't know what
39:26it could have been
39:29listen
39:29what relationships does he have?
39:30with Fabio
39:30and with
39:31what relationships does he have?
39:32with Fabio
39:32and with Alberto
39:33his two brothers
39:34Alberto has disappeared
39:35he doesn't hear it anymore
39:37he lives with a girl
39:38who worked
39:39for cancer
39:40there were two buildings
39:41of master
39:43and his brother
39:45Fabio
39:45it's right here
39:46in this institution
39:47where we are
39:48No?
39:50huh?
39:51his brother
39:52is fabio here?
39:53it's in this
39:54same institution?
39:55I'm not saying anything
39:55with Fabio
39:56don't you talk to each other?
39:58No
39:58why don't you talk to each other?
39:59No
40:00there is nothing more
40:02the story is over
40:03Enough
40:04since after the arrest
40:05onwards
40:05you are no longer there
40:07spoken?
40:08Why?
40:09in her opinion
40:09Why?
40:10because tonight
40:11with her
40:12I said some things
40:13by Fabio
40:14and by Eva Micola
40:14that to him
40:16I don't tell them to him
40:18that is, she
40:19he attributed
40:20the responsibility
40:20of the arrest
40:21to Fabio
40:22and eva micola
40:22but this is it
40:23the reason
40:24why don't you talk to each other anymore?
40:25it's for him
40:26because if my brother
40:27I did it
40:27with Eva Micola
40:28who put it up to date
40:29has become
40:30an invalid
40:33I understand
40:34March 31st
40:36of 1998
40:38his father
40:39Julian
40:40it takes off
40:41life
40:42own
40:42in one one
40:43white
40:45gulping down
40:46a quantity
40:47huge
40:48of anxiolytics
40:49but it's strange
40:50why a doctor
40:51he told me
40:51that doesn't take
40:52he would have died
40:53no wagon
40:56but anyway
40:57from that
40:57which has been ascertained
40:58he committed suicide
41:00in a car
41:01I don't say anything
41:02I say
41:02what he had said
41:03a doctor
41:04but let's say
41:05doctors have confirmed
41:06Instead
41:07suicide
41:08of his father
41:08that in that car
41:10would have left
41:10a series of tickets
41:12in which he said
41:12that he couldn't stand anymore
41:14the weight of that situation
41:17and that
41:18let's say
41:19his fault
41:20was to have transmitted to you
41:21the passion
41:22for weapons
41:23she when
41:24he committed suicide
41:25he was in prison
41:26she was already in prison
41:27for 4 years
41:28when he found out
41:29what had happened
41:31to his father
41:31how did he react
41:33I imagined it
41:35he imagined it
41:36what would have happened
41:37I imagined it
41:38that did something
41:40Why
41:41his wife
41:41had had
41:43a problem
41:45that was
41:45on the carriage
41:46he didn't move anymore
41:47below
41:48he didn't move anymore
41:49and he said
41:50his wife
41:51he does it like this
41:52let's say that
41:53him in the tickets
41:54refers to
41:55to the fact
41:56that he couldn't stand
41:57the shame
41:58to have three children
41:59in prison
42:00that they were
42:00those responsible
42:01of what they had
42:02three children in prison
42:03but three children in prison
42:04for 24 murders
42:07Here you are
42:07she didn't feel like it
42:09the responsibility
42:10of that gesture
42:12or not?
42:14No
42:14No
42:14why not?
42:16because he
42:17he didn't have to
42:17put it in our hands
42:18those weapons
42:20I who heard
42:21understand
42:22in that house of ours
42:22there is
42:23of weapons
42:24of myth
42:25weapons everywhere
42:25limbo and bumblebee
42:26the stuff of war
42:27that thing
42:29so she
42:30she grew up
42:31among the weapons
42:32Yes
42:33of her at the beginning
42:35they were saying
42:35who didn't walk
42:37with the other inmates
42:38that is, he isolated himself
42:40by choice
42:40compared to other inmates
42:42No?
42:44now instead
42:44what is the relationship
42:45with the others?
42:47I talk to everyone
42:48talk to everyone
42:49I've put three now
42:50no two in the cell
42:51an hour
42:52he left
42:52that went up
42:53you are
42:54now there are two of you
42:55Yes
42:56do you get along?
42:59can
42:59always yes
43:00Yes
43:01listen
43:02she
43:02I'm 32 years old
43:03who is in prison
43:04he still has the desire
43:05of the outside world?
43:07Yes
43:08it's still
43:09hope for something?
43:11I hope
43:12I don't hope for anything
43:13I hope for nothing?
43:15but if they send me out
43:17I go
43:17she asked
43:18several times
43:19grace
43:20to the president
43:21of the republic
43:22but grace
43:22nobody gives it to me
43:24but in fact
43:25why did he ask?
43:26because he thought
43:26to be entitled to it?
43:27but I gave myself
43:27the thanks
43:28to send an apology
43:30to relatives
43:31of the victims
43:32but she
43:33these excuses
43:33did he believe it or not?
43:35No
43:36why then
43:36he did it to him
43:37this letter of apology
43:38what if he didn't believe it?
43:39I believe
43:40an apology
43:41what I did
43:42to things
43:42for the evil
43:43that they had
43:45but I never expect anything
43:46President's replacements
43:47ah no grace
43:48of course let's say that
43:49no one thought
43:50that she had the right to it
43:51listen
43:54she
43:55if
43:56had the opportunity
43:58an impossible thing
44:00impossible
44:01if he had the opportunity
44:02to change
44:03just one day
44:04of his life
44:05just one day
44:07of his life
44:07which one would change?
44:11I would take it off
44:12the weapons of Torno
44:13would take you away
44:14all the weapons of Torno
44:16that
44:18hear one last thing
44:19there weren't any of those
44:20it wouldn't be
44:21life would be
44:23things went differently
44:27we talked
44:28of one of his journeys
44:29in Africa
44:30which had lasted
44:31only three days
44:32in Africa
44:32yes I was going
44:34that he was going there
44:35what to do in Africa?
44:36I was months old
44:37the one I was going to
44:37find
44:38but she was tied up
44:39to some
44:41apparatus?
44:42No
44:44not exactly
44:45because then
44:45he also went there
44:46for three days
44:47No?
44:48we also say
44:48very short trips
44:50as if he had
44:50an appointment
44:51with someone
44:53and with whom
44:54did he have an appointment?
44:56he had an appointment
44:57with that
44:58had to give
44:58of the stones
45:00someone who sold them
45:01of the stones
45:02of diamonds
45:03precious stones
45:04in exchange for what?
45:07it was a way
45:08to recycle
45:08or there was
45:09something else
45:09under this
45:10do they want them?
45:11No
45:11recycling
45:12normal
45:12for recycling
45:14and that's it?
45:16just that?
45:18thanks Roberto
45:19for that
45:20that was able to
45:21say this evening
45:22he chose
45:22to tell us
45:23sheep
45:24thank you all
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