- 3 days ago
The Common Sense Bible Study crew resume their Romans study at 14:13–17, framing Paul’s call to live at peace with God and others amid disputes over food and fasting days, especially meat possibly sacrificed to idols and sold in markets. Jay compares these first-century concerns to modern questions about pagan cultural connections (e.g., Halloween), arguing that Paul’s view is that idols are nothing and the meat is “just meat” unless a believer’s conscience is troubled. He explains the distinction between “common” (koinos) and inherently “unclean” (akathartos), contending Romans 14:14 is mistranslated as “unclean” and should read “common/defiled” based on conscience.
The discussion emphasizes not judging, avoiding stumbling blocks, prioritizing love and relationships (e.g., not serving mushrooms or alcohol to someone who objects), interpreting “your good” in 14:16 as the kingdom’s peace rather than food liberty, and concluding the kingdom is righteousness, peace, and joy—not eating and drinking.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Follow me on X: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Follow me on Facebook: https://jaycarper.com/fbat
Follow me on Whole Bible Community: https://jaycarper.com/ttn
The discussion emphasizes not judging, avoiding stumbling blocks, prioritizing love and relationships (e.g., not serving mushrooms or alcohol to someone who objects), interpreting “your good” in 14:16 as the kingdom’s peace rather than food liberty, and concluding the kingdom is righteousness, peace, and joy—not eating and drinking.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Follow me on X: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Follow me on Facebook: https://jaycarper.com/fbat
Follow me on Whole Bible Community: https://jaycarper.com/ttn
Category
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LearningTranscript
00:00:02welcome back to common sense bible study in our study of romans we left off at romans 14 14 but
00:00:11i want to go back to 13 just for some context just a reminder of where we are at in
00:00:16the book
00:00:16of romans we're right with that blue arrow is pointing between chapters 12 and 15 living at
00:00:23peace with god and man and that's really the focus of the passage that we're reading
00:00:29in paul's the specific context in which paul is talking about living at peace
00:00:37is concerning food and fasting days specifically he's talking about meat that might have been
00:00:46sacrificed to an idol and possibly purchased in the public market this is not the first time that
00:00:52this topic comes up in his letters he addresses it much more explicitly in first corinthians
00:00:58and i'm pretty sure it comes up in at least one other place so this is a recurring topic and
00:01:05it
00:01:05makes sense because the people that he's writing to are living in a thoroughly pagan culture
00:01:11the idea of monotheism is brand new to most of these people they have never met anybody who
00:01:18believed in one god many of them have probably met a jew they were pretty well scattered across the
00:01:25empire but among their peers the the gentiles in their world nobody was a monotheist they all
00:01:32worshipped dozens or even hundreds of gods they were a temple on every other corner sacrifices sexual
00:01:40immorality all kinds of crazy stuff going on and so they were rightly concerned i mean how close can
00:01:46they get to these pagan practices and still be faithful to god and today we have these same
00:01:54kinds of concerns we're coming up on halloween trick-or-treating and witches and goblins and
00:02:01ghosts and all that kind of stuff and some area some branches of christianity will tell us that this is
00:02:09a
00:02:09christian holiday that it was invented by christians for christians and it honors god
00:02:15but then why the witches and goblins and ghouls and ghosts what does that have to do with god and
00:02:22how
00:02:22does that celebrate god of course there will always be explanations for it but it is a similar kind of
00:02:29question somebody sees this and they know that all of the western world came out of a pagan
00:02:35culture and these things have obvious connections to pagan religions whether we can actually trace
00:02:43the origins of halloween or other holiday practices back to an actual pagan practice
00:02:48isn't really the point the point is that they have a lot of things in common with pagan practices
00:02:55and almost nothing in common with god's appointed times with god's holidays so it's reasonable for a
00:03:03person to ask if i do anything around these holidays is this participating in paganism i'm not trying to
00:03:13say that it is or it isn't that's not the point the point is that it's a reasonable question for
00:03:17people to
00:03:17ask if you have lived your entire life in a pagan culture you have spent your entire life going to
00:03:24temples and making sacrifices and now you have given your allegiance to a different god who says if
00:03:33you're going to do a sacrifice you have to go to this temple the one temple not the one in
00:03:38your town but
00:03:39this one on the other side of the sea that you will probably never get to go to in your
00:03:42lifetime
00:03:44you're never supposed to even say the names of these other gods and he demands your total
00:03:51soul allegiance as far as divine beings go and then you go to the market and you know that much
00:04:00of the
00:04:01meat for sale at the market has come from a temple where it was sacrificed to an idol and eating
00:04:08the
00:04:08sacrifice is an inherent part of the sacrifice itself it's in part of the act of worship so is it
00:04:15okay
00:04:15to eat this even if you're not actively participating in the paganism and that's really the question that
00:04:20people were bothered with and paul's opinion on this seems to be those idols aren't gods the idols
00:04:29themselves are nothing they're just wood and stone and there may be some supernatural being behind it
00:04:35that masquerades as a god but the idol itself is nothing and as long as you aren't purposefully taking part
00:04:44in the worship of this false god then the meat that was of an animal that was sacrificed is just
00:04:51meat
00:04:52so as long as there's nothing wrong with it otherwise as long as it was bled properly and it's not
00:04:57something that god has forbidden then it's just meat however if it bothers your conscience if you are
00:05:04unable to eat it without constantly thinking about that that pagan idol or feeling like you're
00:05:11engaging in pagan worship then you shouldn't do it because that's going to do you more harm than good
00:05:17and i am i'm positive that is the real the real topic under discussion in romans 14 and when he
00:05:26talks
00:05:27about days he's talking about fasting days and probably he's bringing this up because this is another
00:05:35thing it's another thing connected to other religions whether it's another sect of judaism where they
00:05:40fasted on one day versus another day or there were some pagan practice of fasting on one day or
00:05:46something and but we know that in the first century there were conflicts and arguments about
00:05:52which day of the week should we fast on we don't want to fast on that day because we don't
00:05:55want
00:05:55to be associated with those people so we're going to fast on this day instead and it's really the
00:06:01same kind of argument as eating meat sacrificed idols i don't want to be associated with that thing over
00:06:06there so i'm not going to do this thing that makes me feel like i'm participating in that or might
00:06:13make somebody else think i'm participating in it so the two things eating meat sacrificed to an idol
00:06:20something that was purchased at the market and fasting on a particular day both of these things are
00:06:26the same kind of question and neither one of them is affected by a direct commandment
00:06:34if you're just eating meat there's no commandment that you can't eat meat as long as it's meat from
00:06:40an animal that god has said this is acceptable for food obviously there are lots of disagreements about
00:06:47whether god still has those rules or not but in my opinion he said we're we're supposed to consider
00:06:53those things disgusting and god's character doesn't change so why should he now think that we're
00:07:01we shouldn't think they're disgusting that's a whole nother topic that isn't really directly
00:07:06relevant to the side issue so i don't want to go down that one too far all right let me
00:07:11move on to
00:07:12verse 13 uh therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer but rather decide never
00:07:20to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother i know and am persuaded in the
00:07:25lord
00:07:25jesus that nothing is unclean in itself but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean
00:07:31for if your brother is grieved by what you eat you are no longer walking in love but
00:07:35by what you eat by what you eat do not destroy the one for whom christ died
00:07:42so do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil for the kingdom of god is
00:07:47not a matter
00:07:47of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the holy spirit whoever
00:07:52thus serves christ is acceptable to god and approved by men so then let us pursue what
00:07:58makes for peace and for mutual upbringing do not for the sake of food destroy the work of god
00:08:04everything is indeed clean but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats
00:08:08it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble
00:08:14the faith that you have keep between yourself and god blessed is the one who has no reason to pass
00:08:20judgment on himself for what he approves but whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats because the
00:08:26eating is not from faith for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin all right so verse 13
00:08:33let us not pass judgment on one another any longer but rather decide never to put a stumbling block
00:08:38or hindrance in the way of a brother let's see and go back to my notes here
00:08:45the whole purpose of writing romans was to settle a conflict between jewish and gentile believers
00:08:52they had different traditions different ways of interpreting the scriptures and one of those was
00:08:59obviously the how close we can get to these this paganism stuff and i suspect that in the jewish world
00:09:07these questions had long been answered the jews have been living in rome and in roman areas for
00:09:14a couple of centuries by now so they had plenty of time generations to think about what is acceptable
00:09:22to buy and eat and what is not and for the most part the jews had settled on a more
00:09:27strict interpretation
00:09:28of things that they wouldn't even go into a gentile's house and eat something there or even eat anything
00:09:36that had been prepared by a gentile unless this was a slave who was working in their own house and
00:09:41using
00:09:42their kitchen and whatever and the reason was that just in case that gentile had come into
00:09:51contact with something that was unclean they had been to a pagan temple or they had eaten something
00:09:57that had been sacrificed to a pagan idol they didn't want that contaminating their food it doesn't really
00:10:05matter that god never said that would happen but that was one of the reasons they did that and this
00:10:11is really important for when we get into the next couple of verses
00:10:15there was a difference between what was called common pointos and what was called unclean akathartos
00:10:22something that is akathartos or unclean is something that is ritually impure in itself
00:10:28doesn't matter what you do with it like pork you cannot make pig clean you can't kosher it with
00:10:37salt you can't boil it to boil all the blood out and somehow make it clean there is no way
00:10:43to make
00:10:44pig meat biblically clean for eating so it is akathartos it is inherently unclean
00:10:52but koinos means common and it means it pretty much exactly what it sounds like it means something
00:10:57accessible to everybody and to a jew something that was koinos that's common people food that's
00:11:04what the gentiles eat and jews didn't eat koinos food because they didn't know where it came from or
00:11:10what the gentile who prepared it had contacted or what they might have mixed into it or who knows what
00:11:16so something that is otherwise clean can become koinos or common just through contact or association
00:11:25or something so the meat of a cow or a lamb that had been sacrificed to a pagan idol
00:11:32was considered koinos common it's not necessarily unclean in itself
00:11:39because it's not a pig or an alligator or something like that it is it's still a cow the cow
00:11:47is a cow
00:11:49setting aside genetic engineering and all that kind of stuff they didn't have any of that going on in
00:11:54the roman empire i'm pretty sure but it was considered koinos and you get peter's vision in acts 10
00:12:02where the sheet comes down with all of these animals on it and this voice from heaven says peter kill
00:12:10and
00:12:10eat and peter replies no lord i've never eaten anything common or unclean and these are two different
00:12:17things because the sheet has all kinds of animals on it it has sheep and cows and goats and it
00:12:23has snakes
00:12:24and pigs and rats the snakes and pigs and rats these are akathartos unclean the sheep and goats and cows
00:12:32these are common because they're on a sheet with things that are akathartos so if peter were to go
00:12:39onto that sheet and slaughter all of these animals now they're all being killed together one is being
00:12:48contaminated by the other and in peter saying no i can't do that because that that would be against
00:12:55jewish tradition it's not necessarily against god's commandments god doesn't say that you can't
00:13:04that you can't eat in a gentile's house because that gentile might have had contact with
00:13:09an idol or a pig carcass the day before that's just that's jewish tradition rather than god's commandment
00:13:18okay so does the difference between koinos and akathartos or common and unclean is that difference
00:13:23clear okay yes it is to me all right thank you but in verse 13 here when paul is saying
00:13:33not to pass judgment on one another any longer he is talking about these things whether it's the
00:13:40fasting days or the eating meat sacrificed to idols or not eating meat sacrificed to idols
00:13:46don't pass judgment on your brother or sister because they refuse to eat what as clean but
00:13:54they see as common don't pass judgment on your brother or sister because they do eat something
00:14:00that you see as common but isn't technically unclean and on the other hand decide never to put a stumbling
00:14:08block or hindrance in the way of a brother meaning don't do things that are going to offend that person
00:14:14and lead them to sin or lead them to be angry or confused or to create a problem it's one
00:14:23thing to teach
00:14:24people the truth it's another thing to throw the truth in their face and confuse them or make them
00:14:32doubt your salvation or doubt what they how they feel about what is right and wrong all right we did
00:14:40cover
00:14:40this verse last time we met so i don't think we need to talk about that one much longer let's
00:14:45go
00:14:45on to verse 14 i know and am persuaded in the lord jesus that nothing is unclean in itself
00:14:52but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it is unclean considering what we just talked about
00:14:58with koinos and akathartos which word do you think paul is using here for unclean
00:15:04any opinions common koinos exactly the translators are simply wrong to translate this as unclean
00:15:17the greek word here is koinos not akathartos i understand why they translate it as unclean
00:15:23because they don't really see a difference and they think that all of those rules are thrown out
00:15:27hey timothy welcome but it's just not accurate it's just not a good translation
00:15:33in other places in scripture this word koinos is translated as common so why not translate it
00:15:39common here because the translators have a bias and how they interpret this and they might not even
00:15:46be aware of their bias when they're doing this interpretation or translation but it would be more
00:15:52faithful to the greek to translate it here as common instead of unclean so if you read it that way
00:15:59i know and am persuaded in the lord jesus that nothing is common in itself but it is common for
00:16:04anyone who thinks it is common and you can take the word common and understand it as defiled so it's
00:16:13not
00:16:14unclean in itself it is something has made it unsuitable for in some people's eyes something
00:16:22has defiled it somehow you put butter on your toast and then you drop it on the floor do you
00:16:28consider it
00:16:29defiled now maybe that depends on which side hit the floor depends on how long it's been on the floor
00:16:35right yeah how long five second rule and these are obviously matters of opinion it is not made
00:16:41ritually impure because it fell on the floor it's made common or unclean and that's a subjective
00:16:48judgment not unclean defile that's a subjective judgment is it defiled because now it's got dirt and
00:16:54hair on it if i saw hair and stuff on my toast i might not eat it but if you
00:17:00want to go ahead and
00:17:02eat something that you just picked up off the floor you go right ahead that's yeah it's a little
00:17:07weird but hopefully that gets the idea across that this whole idea of defiled or common is really a
00:17:12subjective one and not something that's objective from god's commandments so if it is common to you
00:17:20if you consider it defiled don't eat it if you don't consider it defiled then go ahead and eat it
00:17:27if you
00:17:27want does that make sense any other thoughts on verse 14 anyway i learned something a couple of things
00:17:43but yeah that i didn't know that the translators said messed with the word unclean and uh common and
00:17:51unclean in that verse anyway thank you that's good to know sure i you're talking about stuff that is
00:18:02inherently inherently unclean and using the term ritually unclean which is probably accurate but i
00:18:10hang out with mainstream christians most of the time and to them something that's ritually anything is
00:18:19meaningless meaningless because ritual that's just rituals yeah we're done with rituals yeah so anyway i
00:18:27when i'm talking to them i try to use inherently unclean because like you said there's nothing you can
00:18:33do to it to make it clean and so anyway just terminology yeah that i use in my head
00:18:45but but but thank you for the teaching about the the word should be uncommon there because that makes
00:18:54a lot of sense yeah you're welcome and that's a good point about the term ritually unclean because we
00:19:02don't really have a good english words for this unclean is really just a bad word a poor word because
00:19:09it's not
00:19:09like it's dirty that's why they in english they don't use the word dirty for this because that
00:19:15definitely has the wrong connotations but we didn't have another word so the translators just use the
00:19:21word unclean but clean and unclean just aren't quite right because it that still has the implication of it
00:19:29being dirty and you could just wash it and that would be clean again and there are some contexts where
00:19:34that's not entirely wrong if a person is in a state of uncleanness sometimes it's washing that
00:19:40transforms them into the state of clean again but it's still not about dirt because even in the washing
00:19:48it doesn't matter if you wash any dirt off or not if you dunk in the water it doesn't matter
00:19:53if you have
00:19:54soap or you scrub or whatever you're still following the commandment because it's not about washing
00:19:59something off of you it's about a spiritual state so in the hebrew there's the words to whore and tame
00:20:08obviously using hebrew words with people who are not familiar isn't going to be very helpful either
00:20:13and i sometimes have to go back and remind myself which word is which and then you also have other
00:20:20forms like the state of uncleanness may be tame but something that is unclean like the adjective is terumah or
00:20:30i don't even remember which is which i get them confused that's why i have to go back and look
00:20:33them up sometimes because we don't use these words in our everyday speech and we don't have a word for
00:20:38it in english so yeah sometimes you just have to explain it or just stick with the words that people
00:20:44know because at least if you use the term unclean but people usually know at least what you're talking
00:20:52about even if they don't really understand the concept you could say taboo which might even be
00:20:58closer to the actual meaning but then it's just something that's a superstition at least in people's
00:21:06minds so that's not really all that helpful either i don't have a good answer for that other than
00:21:13you could almost say sanctioned or unsanctioned but even that has a bad connotation because it
00:21:19it implies some control which i don't think a lot of people like to think of god as that extent
00:21:27yeah and it also implies permission well it's unclean but now i've got permission
00:21:33then you get into the ideas of dispensations and there's all another can of worms there
00:21:39and it's not that yeah there's some potential to go down all another rabbit hole here but
00:21:45when after the flood when god told noah he could eat animals he was there there was a case of
00:21:53sanctioned versus unsanctioned before the flood eating animals was unsanctioned it wasn't as if their
00:21:58state of clean or unclean changed with the flood it wasn't that all animals were unclean before the flood and
00:22:05now some of them or all of them or whatever now made clean it was that was not what god
00:22:13had given
00:22:14mankind for food they had this other set of stuff they had all the seed bearing things this is what
00:22:19god had given them to sustain themselves if you're a tenant in somebody's garden and you are taking care
00:22:26of the garden and whatever and they said okay as payment for taking care of my garden you get to
00:22:31eat
00:22:31from the fruit of all of these trees and plants and there are animals here too but those are my
00:22:36animals don't touch don't mess with those and then later maybe a drought comes through wipes out half
00:22:42the crops i still want you here working in my garden and i need you to survive i don't want
00:22:47you to starve
00:22:48so okay now you can eat some of my animals too that's a matter of something that is sanctioned and
00:22:52then
00:22:53unsanctioned so clean and unclean is still a different kind of thing before the flood and after the flood
00:22:59a pig is still unclean and not suitable for food and in in genesis in that passage where god says
00:23:08now you can eat of all the animals i think he's talking about a category the animals are now within
00:23:15your payment for food these are the things you're now authorized to eat doesn't mean that you can eat
00:23:20every individual one or every kind of animal within that set but the set is now open for your sustenance
00:23:27yeah that someday if we do a study on genesis maybe we'll talk about that one a lot more
00:23:33it brings up an interesting question because there has to be a reason why he would have created
00:23:41clean and unclean from the beginning and i i suspect it has to do with
00:23:49your willingness to listen and follow his instruction because why wouldn't he just made
00:23:56everything clean so there has to be a reason for that i just i don't necessarily have it the answer
00:24:04but it's possible that distinction came into being after the fall that it depends on whether or not you
00:24:12you believe that death was a thing before the fall or not if animals died before the fall something has
00:24:19to clean up the death and so you've got animals that are set apart for the purpose of cleaning up
00:24:23the
00:24:23world and they're associated with death and that's where they get this spiritual state of uncleanness
00:24:31if death came in for animals at the point of the fall then now you've got animals that existed before
00:24:37the fall but now they're repurposed to act as the world's garbage cleaners or the undertakers whatever
00:24:44you want to call it and so now they have this state of uncleanness because of their connection with death
00:24:51it makes sense i i the opportunity to take a foraging class about three weeks ago and it's fascinating the
00:25:00number of wild foods that exist out there but you really need to have an understanding of what is
00:25:09edible and what is not i'll give you example there's a mushroom it's called the angel of death
00:25:14and that if you just nibble on it it's going to destroy your liver there's some some there's a mushroom
00:25:24called a red lobster or something like that and basically a parasite comes in and into a poisonous
00:25:31mushroom and by its mere existence basically causes that mushroom to melt and become edible there's a
00:25:39whole slew of things that are out there that are dangerous to eat but they have all the appearance of
00:25:46oh that looks good so you better have some wisdom and understanding when it comes to that and in terms
00:25:51of
00:25:51god's instructions on what is edible and not edible he certainly has a reason for that what is clean
00:25:58and unclean so just an analogy yeah and there's some disagreement about mushrooms too yeah i have
00:26:06i've been in congregations with people who believe that mushrooms are not food because they're not
00:26:12technically seed bearing plants now that depends on how you define seed i would define them as seed
00:26:17because they have spores that they that are used for reproduction but right they don't have fruit
00:26:23with a seed in it or on it or however you want to look at it so i understand that
00:26:27and if i were going
00:26:28to invite somebody over to my house who believe that mushrooms are not food i would not serve the mushrooms
00:26:36i
00:26:37would not put mushrooms on my plate because they're guests in my home i'm not trying to offend them i'm
00:26:45not
00:26:47you don't build a relationship necessarily by offending people there are some oddballs out
00:26:54there who that might work for but most people it doesn't so the badger the badger skin that covered
00:27:05the tabernacle utensils and all that isn't the badger an unclean animal yeah there's a lot of
00:27:13disagreement about what exactly that skin is the hebrew word is takash and is it badger or porpoise or
00:27:23something else manatee is what some people think it is right some people even say that it's unicorn skin
00:27:31i doubt that but i don't know and there are some theories about some way that it could be a
00:27:38clean animal
00:27:40a skin that's treated in a certain way or something i don't really know but nobody's eating it so as
00:27:47long as you're not eating it i think yeah why would god cover the tabernacle with the skin of a
00:27:52what
00:27:53appears to be an unclean animal i don't know that's a mystery great question yeah i had i had that
00:28:00discussion yesterday with my friend she's a seven days adventist and she was telling me i think it was in
00:28:08florida she went and she was fishing or something and a manatee and his family just keep popping up
00:28:20while she was sitting there fishing a few days and then she stopped but i said manatee and then i
00:28:29remember
00:28:31the covering the covering the badger skin and i said i told her i said i believe humanity is the
00:28:40badger
00:28:41skin that the bible says that was covering these tabernacle utensils and she said no it was god's hair i
00:28:51said
00:28:54and she went we went into leviticus and we were looking it up and i said she is the one
00:29:01who said
00:29:03it's the badger skin yes and i was telling her i believe it's humanity so that's why i'm asking that
00:29:11question because i know the clean animals are the goat the sheep the cow the deer and what else yes
00:29:24yeah giraffe so i'm like i wonder why this is god cover had moses cover these holy utensils with the
00:29:36badger skin because they said it's like about a quarter of an inch thick and they used to make
00:29:43spears and arrows out of them and they could withstand any weather so i'm like okay god knows it all
00:29:52he
00:29:52knows why he told moses to do that hey june yes are you clean
00:30:03i see where you're going tim do you want to take the rest of the journey or do you want
00:30:08me to just
00:30:08say it no i'm not eating any you just say it just say it where is the temple now
00:30:18the temple is within us right and what is what is what is our external covering is our flesh
00:30:25we are our flesh is an unclean thing mm-hmm yes but yet it houses the temple of god so
00:30:31do you
00:30:31wonder if there could be a metaphor there possible possible never know it's a it's in depth
00:30:40i'm just throwing rocks in a pond june it's been a while it's got a ripper yeah along those same
00:30:49lines
00:30:50if you look at the layers of the tabernacle the more the further you go inward the fancier stuff gets
00:31:00until you get to the very center where you've got this fancy embroidered
00:31:04curtain with cherubim on it and you've got the all the gold stuff that if the tabernacle is an image
00:31:12of
00:31:12us then on the outside we wear these those fleshy tents that maybe aren't so great to look at and
00:31:21they're unclean but ideally as we get closer and closer to that image of god's son that we're supposed
00:31:28to be we become pure on the inside the pure gold and the incense and the the blue scarlet and
00:31:36purple
00:31:37twine linen that makes the curtain all that fancy stuff and the menorah yeah the pure gold menorah
00:31:45so i guess that's the reason why he said for us to wear the um the zizit so when we
00:31:54look upon
00:31:55the zizit to remember to follow his instructions and keep his command because he knows our outward
00:32:05self is unclean and that is to remind us of who he is and what he says and we must
00:32:13follow his
00:32:14instruction so it will we will gravitate towards cleanliness so i need constant reminders yes
00:32:24okay thank you timothy yep good word i may be way off base i just thought it was interesting no
00:32:32i
00:32:32think that's a really good point i don't think you were i don't think you were i never thought about
00:32:38that all right let's move on to verse 15 for if your brother is grieved by what you eat you
00:32:44are no
00:32:44longer walking in love by what you eat do not destroy the one for whom christ died
00:32:50we talked about this a little bit already i may use the example of the mushrooms i don't
00:32:56have any problem eating mushrooms i don't think they're unclean i think they're just
00:32:59they're plants obviously scientifically speaking we've classified them as fungus
00:33:04and they do have a different kind of structure than other plants but they're still seed bearing
00:33:09things that grow out of the ground or out of trees or whatever so i'm okay with eating them but
00:33:14i do understand the argument of people who aren't and it's a reasonable argument i don't i could be
00:33:21wrong yeah i'm not going to force somebody i'm not going to tell somebody that they are weak and
00:33:28faithless because they won't eat mushrooms and if like i said if they're going to come over to my
00:33:34house and i'm going to serve dinner i'm not going to serve mushrooms i'm not going to eat them myself
00:33:38in front of them i'm not going to try to get them to eat them if somebody comes over to
00:33:43my house who's
00:33:43an alcoholic and they know that they've got a problem with alcohol i'm not going to serve them
00:33:49alcohol and i'm not going to serve it for myself or anybody else while they're there because i don't
00:33:54want that to become a stumbling block for them i don't want to give them a temptation to do something
00:33:59that they feel is wrong that will then weaken their conscience for the next thing they encounter
00:34:05that they feel is wrong and i think that's one of the primary reasons to let people have
00:34:12some of their traditions that you might not agree with if they believe that this is
00:34:18a commandment of god and this is vital for their spiritual health as long as it's not a sin
00:34:24i don't they don't i don't have to convince them we can talk about it and i can present my
00:34:29case but i
00:34:29don't have to force the issue if it's a problem for them but it's creating problems in their
00:34:35relationships i might have something to say about it i might try to convince them in that way
00:34:40but don't rub your liberty to do what you believe you are allowed to do in their faces if that's
00:34:49going
00:34:50to cause a problem in the relationship or if it's going to pressure them into doing something that they
00:34:57feel is wrong because the more you do things that you feel is wrong the easier it becomes to do
00:35:03things
00:35:03that you feel is wrong and eventually you really do cross the line into things that god has
00:35:07commanded not to do hopefully that makes sense
00:35:13yeah and that's what i think the last part is about by what you eat do not destroy the one
00:35:17for
00:35:17whom christ died and obviously whatever you do is not going to destroy somebody else just by virtue of
00:35:23eating it it's what it does to the relationship and what it can do to that person's conscience
00:35:32so that's the way that's the way that i can see how that might harm somebody's conscience or destroy them
00:35:39but i'm sure that somebody has another idea of what that could mean so i'll have an observation that's not
00:35:48on point but it is it's at first glance it seems ironic to be so focused upon what one eats
00:35:58and doesn't
00:35:59eat however when you go to the garden what one ate and it was you what caused the fall it
00:36:09was disobedience
00:36:11in essence you have people that are trying to follow their perception of what god's rules are
00:36:20by obey or by obedience in their minds whether it's right or wrong and if you step in and try
00:36:26to
00:36:26argue against that obedience on their part that's really a uh that's uh it's not a good place to be
00:36:35in other words oh you should eat this oh you go ahead and have some pork i don't want to
00:36:39because of my
00:36:40religious belief oh that's just garbage go ahead and eat it i've had that argument when i go hunting
00:36:46sometimes and people have backed off but still they're uh they're trying to get into my conscience
00:36:54with that type of argument yeah and i i have known a number of cases where people cannot take that
00:37:01step
00:37:01into full obedience to god's commands even though they believe that they should because the community
00:37:08that they are a part of does not and they don't want to be cut off from the people that
00:37:14they identify
00:37:14with any other thoughts okay let's move on to verse 16 then 16 and 17 so do not let what
00:37:25you regard as
00:37:26good be spoken of as evil for the kingdom of god is not a matter of eating and drinking but
00:37:30of
00:37:30righteousness and peace and joy in the holy spirit so over 16 do not let what you regard as good
00:37:37be
00:37:37spoken of as evil i'm convinced that this is very poorly translated but what do you think he means
00:37:46when he says what you regard as good it seems to me that there are two big possibilities one he's
00:37:53talking about meat sacrificed to idols don't let what you regard meat that was sacrificed to an idol
00:38:00your regard this is a good thing it's meat it gives you protein and nutrients and all the stuff
00:38:05you need to survive so don't let anybody regard that or speak of it as evil okay that's one possible
00:38:14meaning and that i think is the most common understanding of this verse another possibility
00:38:19is that he's talking about the kingdom of god in the next verse for the kingdom of god is not
00:38:26a
00:38:26matter of eating and drinking and by kingdom of god the relationships you have with your community
00:38:32the other the people around you your relationship with god don't let these relationships you regard
00:38:39as good be spoken of as evil because you mistreated a brother by pressuring him to do something that he
00:38:47felt was wrong or by setting a bad example or by judging him because he doesn't believe the same as
00:38:54you do
00:38:55on issues where reasonable people can disagree so in the first one the first understanding where this
00:39:03is talking about the food the things that you believe are good to eat don't let people speak evil of
00:39:09them
00:39:10that seems to me to be directly contrary to what paul just said is be gentle with people don't offend
00:39:18them don't flout flout flout flout your liberty don't rub your liberty in their face to eat whatever
00:39:24it is you believe you're supposed to eat in the traditional interpretation among christian circles
00:39:29is that this means don't rub your bacon in their face don't don't pressure them to eat pork or bacon
00:39:38or
00:39:39whatever it is in my understanding it would be don't pressure them to eat meat sacrificed idols
00:39:47that's what he was talking about before so in this one it would be but don't let them speak evil
00:39:52of
00:39:52you eating meat sacrificed idols or don't let them tell you that you can't eat pig or rat or whatever
00:39:59it is that you're eating but does that really jive with the idea of don't don't rub your freedom to
00:40:08eat
00:40:08this stuff in your brother's face because that's going to offend him should you then turn around and force him
00:40:14to allow you to do what you want and not speak evil of it i'm not convinced that's really a
00:40:21reasonable
00:40:21interpretation what do you all think doesn't allow this to go back to verse one
00:40:28oh i'm sure it's two back in verse one one indeed believes he can eat all food obviously not not
00:40:36common but he was weak eats only vegetables because at least in this culture in this day and age the
00:40:43most emotional crazies i've talked to are vegans and vegetarians and all that they've made it a
00:40:51spiritual you know flag to wave that they are vegan genesis 129 i'm like you're misinterpreting
00:40:59part of that because part of that means there's going to be a struggle between men and animals but
00:41:02let's not go there but in this it makes sense like for instance if you eat meat but just set
00:41:11aside the
00:41:12sacrificial thing i know corinthians addresses i think some of that sacrificial meat but if you were to set
00:41:17aside the sacrificial thing and just boil it right down to what you're going to run into if i was
00:41:23inviting a vegan over for dinner i would make it purposely meal that was comfortable for them so that
00:41:31we could put the meal aside and we could speak of the glory of god and yeshua and his days
00:41:36and dates
00:41:36times and and that kind of things speaking talking about our walk of faithfulness and things because
00:41:44as maybe a stronger more mature believer that believes all things are good as long as they're
00:41:49on the menu you would be basically taking on a mentor father just like disciple rabbi not i don't call
00:42:01a man rabbi but a kind of a mentorship with someone and if they're coming into the faith they might
00:42:06come
00:42:07come in from all kinds of crazies and they're just they're sticking with the vegetarian lifestyle they
00:42:13believe that spiritual and this and that you know what i mean to just take that stumbling block away
00:42:19showing your love for them so you're just and then maybe it would come up in conversation five i eat
00:42:24meat but i'm certainly not going to eat anything around you that would offend you because i just would
00:42:27rather talk about jesus christ and then that person would see that as a safe place to learn about
00:42:33jesus christ because this guy's clearly putting a relationship ahead of his belly that's just a
00:42:39thought that i was just in in just in that reading that because it's hard to break apart first of
00:42:45all
00:42:45romans is a letter so it's hard to break it down anyways but to then to break apart the chapter
00:42:52and of
00:42:53course chapter separation chapter separations didn't exist right yeah and then in rome he had blended all
00:43:00kinds of we of course we've gone through this together the rest of the book unfortunately i miss all
00:43:03these classes but life is terrible sometimes and so you're he's blending these believer new new
00:43:11believers from gentile land who knew some stuff or no stuff and were coming in and he was bringing in
00:43:16these jewish people that had repented of their judaism into the river of messiah but they are bringing in
00:43:25their culture they're bringing in their culture there's tell you taste not touch not whatnot and there's
00:43:29stuff on both sides so all right that's where i was going okay i had a thought based on something
00:43:39jay and i were talking about we talk about it periodically about we'll go back to the garden and
00:43:45talk about what must have happened what could have been in their minds when eve ate of the fruit and
00:43:55then
00:43:56gave it to adam and how that might have transpired in terms of their natural inclinations and
00:44:04what was really happening and that kind of thing and so we had a conversation the other day and i
00:44:10was
00:44:10talking about just this idea that eve probably gave it to him thinking that hey i want you to be
00:44:17like me
00:44:17and isn't that part of what a lot of food and stuff is for us it's like cultural it coincides
00:44:27with our
00:44:27identity we want people to we want to know that people are like us all these things that's one thought
00:44:35i have about it the other thought is the idea of this insistence we have the option to insist that
00:44:45other
00:44:45people agree with us on these things of what's good to eat and what's not good to eat or what's
00:44:51allowed
00:44:52to eat and what's not but we also have the option to let that go and let god determine that
00:44:58and let
00:45:00people determine in their own hearts what what they think that god wants for them to do based on
00:45:06what they do know about the scriptures and what they can tell about what they understand about their
00:45:13relationship with god and just caused me to question it really seems like wanting to insist on
00:45:24someone believing that something is allowed for them when they haven't come to that conclusion for
00:45:31themselves is really very similar to
00:45:36maybe very similar i should say to what happened with adam and eve which is just i just want you
00:45:42to be
00:45:42like me i'm not really sure that's really what happened but it just seems like it's this age-old
00:45:49pattern we just want people to be like us if we've made if we've made a choice and we've determined
00:45:56something's right or good then it's natural for us to be like you should do it too and we do
00:46:03that all the
00:46:03time with so many other things we find something we enjoy we find something we like and we're like oh
00:46:10you
00:46:11should try this and um and i feel like that's also sometimes how we behave when we forget ourselves and
00:46:20we
00:46:21forget god it's like we're just insisting on people agreeing with us in that sense so it seems like just
00:46:31dysfunctional behavior dysfunctional in the sense of not knowing not understanding god's heart and behaving
00:46:39poorly in that sense so paula if you if you go back to cajun land and you are now expressing
00:46:52your menu
00:46:52because of your belief system are you not seeing some sort of pushback from them because that as
00:47:03they are seeing it is implying some sort of judgment against them yeah i think that mostly
00:47:13in the places where i'm where i have people's ear to be able to speak
00:47:20i'm careful about how i couch it so that it's not just straight out saying you're doing it wrong
00:47:32but i think it's really more for my family that i've seen this it's really not as much about
00:47:41them judging me it's that they really want me to be like them that's probably the biggest thing
00:47:47is that they are grieved by the fact that i'm no longer like them and then where concerns like
00:47:55friends and maybe extended family it's almost pointless because the relationships that aren't
00:48:04as strong they're a little more superficial then that's where it gets into potential arguments based
00:48:12on things that they don't understand and so usually what i do in those cases is i make sure either
00:48:18i'm already taken care of or i just abstain without saying anything if i can so it's definitely a
00:48:29it's a delicate matter but i think the people who care the most about me and want to understand me
00:48:35the
00:48:35most are just sad it's not even as much like they feel judged they're just sad okay the way i
00:48:45look at it
00:48:45with adam and eve eve eve she had a relationship with the enemy satan and i don't think it was
00:48:58a short-lived
00:48:59relationship they probably had been meeting and chatting and because they said satan he's guide
00:49:09and he had his plans and he was able to draw eve into that net and after he eventually got
00:49:24her to
00:49:25believe in him trust him and everything then he advanced a little further okay she went ahead and
00:49:35she took the leap remember god told adam that if you eat of this fruit you will die they didn't
00:49:44know what
00:49:45death was about because they had never experienced death so i guess when he saw his wife
00:49:56taking part of this delicious fruit whatever it was and he probably looked at her and didn't see any
00:50:04difference but she saw the difference because after she ate there was a transfer from within because we
00:50:14know everything starts from within and she gave it to him because as you said she wanted him to be
00:50:21like
00:50:21home and he got drawn into that net and that was it but as you know interesting thought yeah
00:50:32i always think about that because i'm like they didn't know what death was all about and i i i'm
00:50:41always
00:50:41convinced that eve and satan it was not a short-lived relationship he knew he drew her right into that
00:50:52net
00:50:53he didn't go to adam because adam was the one that was given that specific instruction he went to eve
00:50:59so he knew once he get to eve he will eventually get to adam because i remember back home
00:51:07we used to have syrians coming out to our homes selling materials pots pans and all sorts of things they
00:51:17used to come riding on bicycles loaded with all sorts of things and they will never come to our homes
00:51:24homes and ask to speak to the man of the home they always ask for the woman of the home
00:51:32because when
00:51:34she comes out and she sees all these things that he has then if the husband is in the bedroom
00:51:41she goes
00:51:42into the bedroom and next thing you know he has gotten himself a few sales
00:51:48yeah if you look at yeah if you look at so much of marketing today it's a lot of marketing
00:51:54to women
00:51:55because they are the ones who are more likely to be buying but yeah that's interesting it's an
00:52:03interesting thought process to go through and realize that yeah we often are the ones that
00:52:09like they're shiny like the shiny things that's why they put the vanity mirror in the car
00:52:19yes that's why we're warned about that i'm just by the apostles that
00:52:24talking about devious men who worm their way into the good graces of women in the congregation
00:52:30and thereby undermine the entire congregation
00:52:33and that's not to say that all women are gullible or in that all men are less gullible because there
00:52:40are plenty of gullible men too but it is certainly true that women are a tend to be a particular
00:52:48target for manipulative people who want to try to undermine i don't know what you call it undermine a
00:52:57culture that those people tend to target women and children and then it works their way out because
00:53:04if you capture the women you capture the children also and then you've got the whole next generation
00:53:09so there are lots of reasons for that i'll take the flip side though jay because it does talk in
00:53:15the
00:53:15word about men being swayed by the wiles of women so it goes both ways that again you capture the
00:53:24woman
00:53:24and oftentimes you capture the man because he doesn't want to you know doesn't want to lose his
00:53:31woman or he doesn't want to create a problem in his house so he'll go along to get along and
00:53:37that's
00:53:39that that means that he's already created about a bad culture in his house that's already a problem
00:53:44but it is a very common situation i know speaking of adam he may have sensed already the distance coming
00:53:52between he and eve after she ate and he didn't like that feeling hadn't had it before and so yeah
00:53:59he
00:54:00went with his woman that's a good point i think that jay and i've talked somewhat about that in the
00:54:06past
00:54:07like there's a lot of motivations wrapped up in that i'm sure but food is i've mentioned this before and
00:54:17i think as we're talking about this passage is like i've said this before like particularly
00:54:24food and sex like these are things you do not want to mess with when people have ideas about it
00:54:32when they have very strong ideas about it and i think everybody does you just don't want to go
00:54:39mess with how they how and what they like to eat you know how and what they like to have
00:54:47intimacy like
00:54:48all these things it's just people are very resistant and a lot of that is because they are very powerful
00:54:54things they both have the power to create and sustain life and i think that's one of the reasons
00:55:05that it's just we should know that consciously but i think intuitively it's just a very deep
00:55:12connection to our survival and so that's i think that's one of the reasons this is so important to god
00:55:19what we eat if you think of the very first instructions that god gave mankind be fruitful
00:55:24and multiply that applies to both food and procreation and these are it's not just that these
00:55:32are both blessings and commands but these are built into who we are and you can't challenge people's diet
00:55:39and their sexual habits without challenging their identity and not even a conscious identity most of
00:55:47the time it's it goes all the way to the core of who they are how they see themselves and
00:55:53once you
00:55:54start telling people that they're doing something that god finds abhorrent they're going to react violently
00:56:01to that when it involves those two things especially yeah and i know firsthand being a dietitian all
00:56:10these years and having walked into thousands and thousands of hospital rooms over the years even
00:56:18not speaking to people about food from a religious standpoint just saying hey your doctor says you can't
00:56:25eat this anymore i don't eat this anymore i've endured lots of dirty looks and lots of rude comments
00:56:31just for those kind of things so when you talk start talking about for righteousness sake
00:56:37it's it's a next level thing lust and desire that that involves both food and sex look at what happened
00:56:46with herod and in his stepdaughter that was a vow made out of foolishness because of desire
00:56:58yeah if you look at so many of those kinds of issues in the scriptures food and sex are both
00:57:05involved
00:57:06esther and the king in vashti she was dancing at a feast between those two things there's always
00:57:15problems but look at sarah and abraham sarah was was a strong woman and that's why i heard a
00:57:27teaching one time this guy was saying a virtuous woman is a strong woman and sarah was a woman of
00:57:36virtue that's why she was able to influence abraham to go in and have a sexual relationship with her maid
00:57:47but in the end it wasn't
00:57:51very pleasing but because of her virtue or strength she was able to influence her husband to do what he
00:58:01did
00:58:01so many women they are strong enough that they can influence their husband but then the end results are
00:58:14not always you know good because look at look even abigail when with david and when abigail saw what her
00:58:28husband did
00:58:29she sat at her horse and she went to david and eventually after her husband got killed
00:58:39david married to her because he saw her strength so women can be very influential
00:58:49yep very true yeah we're getting far afield from romans 14 here though i think they the garden in adam
00:58:58and eve
00:58:59is pretty pretty on point because you have again eating which one person indulging in what they believe
00:59:07to be acceptable leads to the next one falling and in that case eve was wrong and it's always possible
00:59:14in a situation that paul is describing here that the person who believes he has liberty is actually wrong
00:59:22and the person who is refraining from whether it's eating or not fasting or whatever it is we're talking
00:59:29about that person ends up being right and the one who thought that the other guy was weak in faith
00:59:38turns out that he just didn't understand what the scriptures were saying and if he had pressured the
00:59:43other person to give in then maybe they would both be wrong instead of just one of them
00:59:49so i think it's usually in those kind of cases i think it's better to take a long and gentle
00:59:53approach
00:59:54rather than trying to force the issue on somebody if somebody can have an honest conversation
01:00:00about the the pros and cons or the morality of a particular action like eating this versus that
01:00:10then by all means engage in those conversations but you have to judge that person by person one
01:00:16person will be very upset by it and another person can talk about anything but it is very situational
01:00:23you said earlier that you didn't think this was a very good translation where it says don't allow
01:00:28what you think is good to be spoken of as evil and i'm i'm curious what you think is a
01:00:35good translation
01:00:37the next verse talks about the kingdom of god and according to yeshua in the kingdom of god
01:00:45those who teach the smallest of the commandments and follow them are considered great and those who
01:00:52don't are considered least and if they're entering into the kingdom of god
01:01:01it seems obvious to me that according to yeshua the commandments go along with that as great
01:01:08and such but anyway i i want to know how you have reconciled that don't allow people to speak
01:01:17call what is good evil or whatever yeah anyway i like the king james for translation on this one
01:01:23actually that word in the esv where it says right at the beginning of the verse that's usually
01:01:30translated as therefore therefore do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil and that
01:01:37therefore is the biggest reason why i don't think that the good being spoken of here is what you think
01:01:45you're allowed to eat as opposed to what the other person thinks he's not allowed to eat i don't think
01:01:50therefore in the previous verse it says by what you eat do not destroy the one for whom christ died
01:01:59therefore don't let what you regard as good at the stuff that you eat be spoken of as evil i
01:02:04don't think
01:02:05that makes any sense now i think there is a place for not allowing bad teaching about food or anything
01:02:12else but you do need to resist bad teaching and don't let it propagate but this is talking about
01:02:18relationships between between people not necessarily sound doctrine so the good that i think is being
01:02:25talked about here are the things that are good for you for the things that are good about your
01:02:29relationship the king james translation says let not then your good be evil spoken of
01:02:36your good instead of what you regard as good so what is your good your good is your relationship
01:02:46with these other people what the next verse says the righteousness and peace and joy in the holy
01:02:52spirit that is the kingdom of god don't let the kingdom of god and this righteousness and peace and joy
01:02:59be blasphemed among people because of how you treat your brother and what he is eating that's what i
01:03:05think is really being talked about in verse 16 so how do you therefore not let that happen
01:03:11you by being gentle with him don't mock a vegan yeah don't mock the vegan you can mock vegans in
01:03:20the
01:03:20abstract on social media i'm just i'm joking there is a place for mockery but if you're trying to have
01:03:28good relationships with people you don't mock people in your own in your fellowship if they're vegans or
01:03:34vegetarians or they believe in fasting on tuesday and thursday instead of wednesday and friday
01:03:40or they believe that meat bought at the grocery store is unclean because it wasn't bled quite
01:03:50properly or maybe the knife that was used to cut it had been used to cut pork the day before
01:03:58and
01:03:58wasn't watch property who knows whatever their reason is for believing something that is not right don't
01:04:05don't don't pressure them into doing something that violates their conscience don't mock them for
01:04:11it build the relationship instead and these understandings a better understanding and maybe a
01:04:19meeting of minds can come later that's a secondary issue the relationship is first so a question is
01:04:26yes we are not supposed to eat pork but if i go to a pantry and they give me pork
01:04:34and my neighbor
01:04:35eats pork if i give it to the neighbor is that wrong that's a good question i wouldn't personally but
01:04:44if my
01:04:45neighbor is starving i don't know pork can give you good nutrition that doesn't mean you should eat
01:04:53it but but can provide your body with the nutrients that it needs to survive does that mean that you
01:04:59should
01:05:00give it to them when you know it's evil and they don't that's a difficult question most of the time
01:05:06i would
01:05:06say no you shouldn't but but if you tell them if you tell them it's unclean and they still want
01:05:14it
01:05:15you can tell them i left it at the food pantry you can go get it go ahead timothy i
01:05:21would like to slash
01:05:21the tires of your opinion on that okay but you can pump them up change the tires and push me
01:05:26back that's
01:05:26fine too uh i would say no because those who are called out and set apart by yahweh and following
01:05:35yeshua we are set apart in our sanctification and we are working with the creator on his biblical
01:05:42thing in the same way in the ancient times i refuse to call old testament because that's a heretic's
01:05:47label but in the torah of the knock it even talks about don't let it don't eat of an animal
01:05:53that
01:05:53is dies of itself or something else but you can give it to the sojourner or something because they
01:06:00have no inclination towards that they're just looking for a meal and so they're i think that
01:06:06almost falls under this area here is where if you're working with a person who doesn't have the same
01:06:15set of scales and beliefs and other things like that and they're hungry and then you say to them
01:06:21go to the pantry you know what i mean yeah be blessed and have a nice day whatever but you
01:06:27had
01:06:27an opportunity that you could have took that pork you're not going to eat it they don't necessarily
01:06:32care about jesus but they want to feed their three or four kids and you can just go here i
01:06:37don't eat
01:06:37this it's not part of my faith journey well my scriptures or whatever but i really want to help
01:06:42you out with your kids and i totally respect blah blah blah blah blah and like that stuff and maybe
01:06:49that
01:06:49would plant a seed in that person of that you're not necessarily you're not judging them for being
01:06:56whatever i know this has to do more with the within the church and everybody there knows the difference
01:07:00between clean i think but because you're not i don't think you're defiled by giving something
01:07:06that's common to a common person and by common person i obviously don't mean they're less precious
01:07:10to yah but they just have a different set of a different world view but that world view planting
01:07:15those seeds might change and who knows you might be able to like three four years down the road
01:07:20say hypothetically that person mods their belief and starts following you and then three four years
01:07:25on the road you're both laughing at how you ended up giving them the gospel by handing them an unclean
01:07:29animal yeah i think that's a good argument and it it really depends i think most of my neighbors are
01:07:39pretty wealthy we're we rent a house on a ranch and we don't have money but all of our neighbors
01:07:45do
01:07:45because they all have the ranches but if i had somebody gave me a bag of one butcher block one
01:07:55of
01:07:55those boxes of different cuts of meat and it had pork chops in it i wouldn't go give it to
01:07:59any of my
01:08:00neighbors even though i know they would use it because they don't they're not in need they don't need it
01:08:04to
01:08:04survive it's they're just they have everything they need now on the other hand if i had neighbors
01:08:11who were poor and struggling they were always struggling to have enough or to feed their family
01:08:18i would probably give it to them they're going to eat it they're going to go to the store and
01:08:22buy
01:08:22pork and all that stuff anyways and i wouldn't like you're saying i would make sure that they know that
01:08:30i don't think we should eat this but i know i don't know how exactly i would do this i've
01:08:35in truth i probably wouldn't say anything to them at all i'd say hey i don't eat this if you
01:08:40want it
01:08:40you can have it yeah i my neighbor it's difficult my neighbor by now everybody should know i live in
01:08:49a
01:08:49poor community and my neighbor when i go to the food pantry and they give me pork although i told
01:08:58them
01:08:58i don't eat pork sometimes i come home and there's pork in my my my box i would talk to
01:09:06her right
01:09:07because and i told her leviticus 11 gives us all the dietary instruction we're not supposed to eat pork
01:09:16we're not supposed to eat catfish and all that but they do partake of that they're poor so i give
01:09:23it to
01:09:23them so that's why i asked the question because i was waiting for the response i don't want to walk
01:09:30around with a guilty conscience that you know i'm giving my neighbor something to eat and i shouldn't
01:09:36but as timothy said we can give them to those people who don't value the dietary instructions that
01:09:45god has given unto us yeah for myself i would tend my default would be not to give it to
01:09:53people
01:09:53unless i knew that they were in serious need but i'm certainly not going to fault anybody else
01:09:58for giving food away other people consider food because yes it would depend on how
01:10:05to what extent you you interpret cork is bad for you if you if you classify it as as nutritionally
01:10:17um evil for you then you're extending that to your neighbor as well would you give your neighbor an
01:10:23apple with razors in it no because you you know that they're gonna yeah it's gonna get cut up that's
01:10:29a point that paula just mentioned she wasn't in the room she shouted it from the other room but
01:10:33the pork has parasites and toxins and all kinds of stuff in it and people eat pork all the time
01:10:41and they
01:10:41live to old ages and they're very healthy so it's not i didn't say everybody i said people
01:10:48so it's not like eating one meal with pork is likely to kill anybody sure it could but probably not
01:10:57it's not like you're giving your neighbor cyanide but it is unclean it's not common it's unclean
01:11:04yeah yeah that's why i would default to not sharing it unless i knew the person was really in need
01:11:12but you do what your conscience leads you to do yeah i just put it on the table because
01:11:20if it's wrong then i just won't do it again the trash yeah i might feed it to my dog
01:11:28and then
01:11:29give my neighbor something that's really food i do because a lot of time when she comes from dialysis
01:11:37and she's sick i would normally give her something nutritious to eat and when i get the food from
01:11:44pantry and i have spoke i give it to her but then i just stop give it to her and
01:11:50feed her with what i'm
01:11:52eating yeah let's talk about verse 17 here before we wrap things up for the kingdom of god is
01:11:59not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the holy
01:12:03spirit and trying yeah i was thinking of an example but the example the illustration that i
01:12:10thought of was going to lead down another rabbit trail so skip that one the kingdom of god is the
01:12:16people it's the people in relationship to god and obviously eating and drinking has an effect on
01:12:22those things so it's not as though the kingdom of god isn't related to eating and drinking but those
01:12:27things aren't really the point the point is to have a relationship to re-establish that peace between
01:12:34man and god that is what the kingdom and the gospel is really all about and if we get in
01:12:40into distractions
01:12:41about whether it's pronouncing god's name right or can the government control the weather or should we
01:12:51eat meat sacrifice idols these things can become serious distractions to what's really important it's not i'm not
01:12:57saying that none of those things aren't important what you eat is important but on the periphery
01:13:05the things where reasonable people can disagree about whether this is good or bad
01:13:11if you look at the law is clear that we should not eat now obviously many people believe that the
01:13:17law
01:13:17doesn't apply to christians or to anybody anymore that's a whole nother topic but if you believe the law
01:13:23applies then the law is clear that pig is not something that people should eat but there are
01:13:29lots of things about food that are unclear and that reasonable people can disagree about
01:13:36if an animal was sacrificed at a pagan temple and then the meat was sold in the market and you're
01:13:40not
01:13:40participating in a sacrifice is it okay to eat that meat that's something we can reasonably disagree on and
01:13:47we shouldn't make a big deal out of if somebody disagrees and it's more important that we are focusing
01:13:54on keeping the commandments as they're as we know them to be and being at peace with not just god
01:14:02but
01:14:02each other because as part of the body of messiah it is vital that we establish peace with each other
01:14:10and that we're not infighting all the time we can have disagreements and we can debate and we can
01:14:15talk about our disagreements but at the end of the day as long as we're all part of the same
01:14:21body
01:14:21worshiping the same god and trying to keep the same commandments we need to act like we're we are
01:14:27doing those things and not be dividing over silly peripheral things that nobody can prove or that the
01:14:35scriptures are ambiguous about
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