- 2 days ago
The Common Sense Bible Study crew continues a Journey Through Romans by reviewing Romans 14:16–17 and discussing translations, arguing that “your good” refers to table fellowship and the kingdom’s “righteousness and peace and joy,” not flaunting liberty; believers should avoid pressuring others into violating conscience while not being bound by man-made traditions.
Reading Romans 14:18–23, the discussion emphasizes serving Christ by prioritizing others, pursuing peace and mutual upbuilding, and not destroying God’s work over food or drink. They address “approved by men” as approval within the believing community, compare disputes to issues like meat sacrificed to idols, Halloween/Diwali participation, and workplace obligations, and discuss patient discipleship (Acts 15). They clarify “everything is clean” as contextually clean foods/uses, warn against tempting others (e.g., alcohol), explain “keep between yourself and God” as not flaunting controversial liberties, and conclude that acting against doubts is condemned because whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Follow me on X: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Follow me on Facebook: https://jaycarper.com/fbat
Follow me on Whole Bible Community: https://jaycarper.com/ttn
Reading Romans 14:18–23, the discussion emphasizes serving Christ by prioritizing others, pursuing peace and mutual upbuilding, and not destroying God’s work over food or drink. They address “approved by men” as approval within the believing community, compare disputes to issues like meat sacrificed to idols, Halloween/Diwali participation, and workplace obligations, and discuss patient discipleship (Acts 15). They clarify “everything is clean” as contextually clean foods/uses, warn against tempting others (e.g., alcohol), explain “keep between yourself and God” as not flaunting controversial liberties, and conclude that acting against doubts is condemned because whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Follow me on X: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Follow me on Facebook: https://jaycarper.com/fbat
Follow me on Whole Bible Community: https://jaycarper.com/ttn
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LearningTranscript
00:00:01Welcome back to a journey through the book of Romans.
00:00:04We are at Romans chapter 14, verses 18.
00:00:08Before we start reading, just kind of a reminder of where we're at in the book.
00:00:13We are in the last half, and we're still in this section where Paul is talking about living at peace
00:00:18with God and man.
00:00:20Before we go on to verse 18, just want to review 16 and 17 here real quick.
00:00:25So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil, for the kingdom of God is
00:00:30not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
00:00:35And on those verses, I just want to read to you a little bit from my notes.
00:00:40I know we talked about this last time, but I don't think it can hurt to do a quick review
00:00:46since it's been two weeks.
00:00:49All right, so I always use the ESV translation.
00:00:52I don't always agree with it, but it is one of the best ones, in my opinion.
00:00:56ESV, New American Standard, Tree of Life version, those are all really good.
00:01:01They all have their quirks, and so I recommend that you compare multiple translations and where they differ.
00:01:09Those are good points to investigate further.
00:01:11So on the ESV in verse 16, I believe that the wording is maybe a little bit misleading.
00:01:17It seems to imply that you should correct anyone who believes that you are sinning through exercising your liberty to
00:01:23eat what that other person believes to be defiled.
00:01:26But since the previous verses tell us to treat such a person with kindness and forbearance, I don't think that
00:01:33makes any sense to say stand up to those people and don't let them tell you what you should do.
00:01:40The King James more literal rendering of let not your good be evil spoken of I think is a little
00:01:46better, even if it's a little more difficult to understand.
00:01:49But a bad translation isn't necessarily improved by being easier to read.
00:01:54For the same reason, it's also true that you shouldn't let anyone else vilify you or obligate you to man
00:02:00-made rules of religious observances.
00:02:03And the therefore, where it says so in the ESV, in other translations it says therefore or then or something
00:02:10like that.
00:02:12But the word is translated therefore in other verses.
00:02:15That word indicates that whatever Paul is communicating is a logical conclusion of the preceding statement.
00:02:22It doesn't make any sense for him to say, don't offend your brother by eating something in front of him
00:02:26that he believes is a sin.
00:02:28Don't destroy him for whom Christ died.
00:02:31Don't therefore let him say anything bad about what you eat.
00:02:34That sudden change doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
00:02:36The whole point is not to give him a cause to say anything bad about your food.
00:02:42And so if Paul meant to say, don't offend your brother by what you eat and don't allow him to
00:02:48offend you by insulting what you eat.
00:02:50He could have used a word that meant likewise or in the same way.
00:02:54But he used a word that means therefore.
00:02:57So it seems unlikely that good in verse 16 refers to something that your brother finds offensive.
00:03:04The good isn't your liberty to eat whatever you want.
00:03:07But your table fellowship with your brother and the kingdom of God and the righteousness and peace and joy that's
00:03:12mentioned in the next verse.
00:03:13Not whatever you believe about meat or diet or any man-made religious traditions.
00:03:18Don't destroy him for whom Christ died.
00:03:22Don't therefore make your dining together into a cause for him to speak evil of you and that kingdom.
00:03:28So that doesn't mean that it's a good thing to allow erroneous beliefs to take root and propagate in the
00:03:33kingdom because that's also a serious problem.
00:03:35I just don't think that's what Paul is talking about here.
00:03:38Any such corrections should be made with as much love and gentleness as possible.
00:03:43And maybe, as we'll see a little bit later in this chapter, it doesn't mean do what you think is
00:03:50right despite your brother's conscience in his face.
00:03:55It means if you have liberty to do those things, but maybe do them over in private.
00:04:01You don't have to rub your brother's face in it.
00:04:03And so verse 17, where he talks about the kingdom of God or the kingdom of heaven, either one, these
00:04:12things don't exist to enforce rules of purity or any rules at all.
00:04:15The kingdom doesn't exist for the sake of the rules.
00:04:18Just like the Sabbath doesn't exist, or rather man doesn't exist for the sake of the Sabbath, it's the other
00:04:24way around.
00:04:25The rules exist to aid in the purity of the kingdom.
00:04:28And this is very similar to, like I said, just about Yeshua's statement on the Sabbath.
00:04:34We obey God's instructions and we observe rights that God has commanded or that don't violate his commands for the
00:04:40sake of our relationships with him and one another.
00:04:42And if our personal preferences on matters over which reasonable people might disagree, degrade those relationships instead of enhancing them,
00:04:51then we ought to seriously consider whether our personal preferences are really so important.
00:04:55So don't allow anyone to pressure you into violating your own conscience and don't pressure anyone else to violate his.
00:05:03Put the needs of your brothers and sisters ahead of your own and give way when you are able.
00:05:07That doesn't mean that God's rules about what may be eaten or drunk no longer apply,
00:05:12only that the purpose of those rules is peace and a full loving relationship with both God and mankind.
00:05:17And if your exercise or obedience to those rules is creating a problem in that relationship,
00:05:27then it may be more about how you are doing it than what you are doing and how you are
00:05:34presenting it to your brother.
00:05:35All right, so let me go on, start reading verse 18.
00:05:41Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
00:05:45So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
00:05:49Do not for the sake of food destroy the work of God.
00:05:53Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats.
00:05:58It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
00:06:03The faith that you have keep between yourself and God.
00:06:06Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.
00:06:11But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats because the eating is not from faith.
00:06:16For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
00:06:20All right, let's go back to verse 18.
00:06:24Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
00:06:29This word thus, just like the word therefore, this is important.
00:06:34It's not whoever serves Christ in whatever way they think is appropriate, but whoever serves Christ in the manner that
00:06:41Paul is describing.
00:06:42In the manner that he is describing is talking about serving one another, putting one another's needs first.
00:06:48Not ignoring God's commandments, not setting them aside or teaching people not to keep them, but not forcing other people
00:06:58to keep your man-made traditions or not exercising your liberty within God's commandments.
00:07:06In a way that is going to offend people in a way that is going to offend people and cause
00:07:09them to question their own conscience or pressure them into violating their conscience.
00:07:17Yeah, questioning their conscience isn't so much the problem because we often need to question our conscience.
00:07:22It's really pressuring people to violate their conscience that is the problem because you're then setting up a bad precedence
00:07:28where people get into the habit of.
00:07:32My conscience tells me this, but this other guy in my fellowship, he does this, and maybe I'm just wrong
00:07:39and I should just ignore my conscience.
00:07:41And that's a bad place to be because then you end up in the situation that Paul was describing at
00:07:45the beginning of the book, where he's talking about people who deliberately ignore their conscience.
00:07:51They ignore God's law, what they know in their heart to be right, because they just want to do these
00:07:58evil things.
00:07:58And before long, their conscience is seared.
00:08:01It's essentially cauterized and it no longer functions and they can't hear God's voice.
00:08:08They can't tell the difference between right and wrong anymore.
00:08:10We don't want to push people into a situation like that.
00:08:13So even if somebody's conscience is maybe too sensitive or keeping them away from things that aren't necessarily sinful, it's
00:08:22better to be gentle with those people and not pressure them until they're ready.
00:08:26What does it take to be acceptable to God?
00:08:29Essentially, it takes humility.
00:08:32It takes a willingness to be wrong, to say, I screwed up.
00:08:38I've made the wrong choices and put yourself at God's mercy.
00:08:42That's really what it takes.
00:08:44Yeshua is he obeyed all of God's commandments perfectly and he knew that we never would.
00:08:51So if we are willing to acknowledge our flaws and put ourselves at God's mercy, then he will impute Yeshua's
00:09:01perfect righteousness to us and make us acceptable to him.
00:09:05That's completely ignoring and wiping out the record of the debt of our sin.
00:09:10I think that one is a little easier to understand.
00:09:14But what about the other one?
00:09:16What does being approved by man have to do with this?
00:09:19Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
00:09:21I think that a man that is walking according to the principles of God, that's the man they're talking about,
00:09:33not a man that is walking according to the ways of the world.
00:09:39And if it's acceptable by God, because God has a standard, it's in the Bible.
00:09:50And once we study the Bible, it will tell us what God approves of and what he doesn't approve of.
00:10:01So once we follow that principle, we know that will be acceptable by God, because God searches our heart, he
00:10:12knows what's within.
00:10:13And if the man who walks according to his principles, right, he will most likely approve whatever you do as
00:10:28you serve Yeshua.
00:10:31So.
00:10:33Yeah, I think that's key.
00:10:35This isn't really talking about being approved by the world.
00:10:38It's talking about being approved by your brothers and sisters in Christ.
00:10:44And I think verse 19 really.
00:10:47It really tells us what this is all about.
00:10:51So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
00:10:56Yeshua talked that.
00:10:58The heart of God's law is to love God and to love your neighbor.
00:11:02And if all of our attempts at obedience are centered around and moderated by those principles, then I think we're
00:11:12going to be on the right track.
00:11:13We're going to be acceptable to God because we are trying to live lives that are pleasing to him and
00:11:20depending on his mercy for our failures.
00:11:23And we are going to be approved by our brothers and sisters in Christ because we are making peace with
00:11:30them.
00:11:30We're living in a way that's not creating conflict, that is encouraging stronger relationships and not just faith in God,
00:11:41but faith in each other.
00:11:42I mean, if you're living in a way that is creating controversy with the people around you and creating disruptions,
00:11:51then you're going to have broken relationships or strained relationships at the very least.
00:11:57But if you're living in a way where you're always putting the needs of the other people in your community
00:12:03first and being aware of their weaknesses, of their sensitivities and making allowances for those things, they're going to be
00:12:16more comfortable with you.
00:12:17You're going to have a better relationship with those people.
00:12:19You're going to have peace and that will enable a relationship where you can build each other up, where this
00:12:26person, you've built up enough trust that when controversies do arise, you can talk to each other without fear of
00:12:34being offended, being offensive or being offended.
00:12:39And that's a really rare thing in this world.
00:12:42People are so easily offended.
00:12:45Thank you, June.
00:12:46That's where perception comes in.
00:12:49Because once you have that spirit to perceive what's going on, you will understand the things that would, when someone
00:13:03is sensitive and you have that perception with the help of the Holy Spirit, you will be able to deal
00:13:13with that person without causing any conflict.
00:13:19So you need the help of the help of the help of the Holy Spirit to give you that perception
00:13:25and the understanding and the wisdom how to deal with that person without causing any conflict.
00:13:39Because we are all different, what may affect you, what may affect you, what may affect you, what may affect
00:14:06you may not affect me.
00:14:07I need to be able to be able to have another person with that person, January 1, 2, 1, 2,
00:14:123, 3, 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1.
00:14:12It does take a lot of maturity.
00:14:14Any other thoughts on these two verses?
00:14:16I agree with what June is saying about seniors in the faith, and I also believe that these points are
00:14:25necessary even when a senior person is discipling somebody who's new in the faith.
00:14:33you know so when someone's more mature he has the experience the understanding and the discernment
00:14:43to follow the instructions of god and in living out that instruction is where he is
00:14:51almost exemplifying how what it means to somebody who's new in the faith by his conduct so i think
00:15:00that's what paul is really alluding to that you know the way we live our life
00:15:09believing what we do the way we observe god's commands more than saying it it it is reflected
00:15:21in the way we live our life and sometimes that becomes like a like discipleship for the next
00:15:27person who's coming in new to the faith i really think this is something which is being told to
00:15:36people who are already believers so believers those who are who claim to be torah pursuant or whatever
00:15:43so i think that is the key where it is almost like a hey this is the way it needs
00:15:49to be done if you
00:15:50have a new person coming in yeah don't so quick to jump onto whether he's still eating apple bacon
00:15:58you know whatever give a give him a little grace let the man or the woman let the holy spirit
00:16:07lead
00:16:07them into making those decisions for their lives whereas you don't compromise your beliefs you have
00:16:15stand up and follow what you know to be true according to the word of god and the commands
00:16:20that i'm just using a simple thing like eating pork versus not eating pork and i just think this is
00:16:27a good
00:16:28not warning but more like an encouragement to not jump on the young the younger person or the less
00:16:34less mature person who's just walked in and who's just following torah give them some grace to
00:16:42that it's everything is new everything is oh my gosh what do i do so i didn't believe this is
00:16:49what paul is saying chill relax you come don't put it down their throat so quickly let them get to
00:16:57that understanding and trust god that he will do what is needed and we have to still be examples and
00:17:04following the torah the way it is written that's okay yeah those are all good thoughts
00:17:11and it reminds me of acts 15 where the disciples paul came to them and said there's this
00:17:19controversy and there are these guys following me around telling everybody that they need to be
00:17:24circumcised in order to be saved which that alone was contrary to god's commandments that's nowhere in
00:17:29torah and the ruling that they came down with james and peter and the other apostles there in jerusalem
00:17:36was give them these four things but they never meant anybody to understand those four things as
00:17:43the sum total of all moral rules this was a starting point for new believers say okay here's the big
00:17:51ones
00:17:51that we need them to get straight right away and then they can go to the synagogue and hear moses
00:17:58taught
00:17:59and you're never going to go to a synagogue and hear everything from moses taught in a single day
00:18:05generally it's going to take years before you're ever even going to hear it all
00:18:10you might hear if you go faithfully you might hear the entire torah read in a single year you might
00:18:16depending on which synagogue you're going to but there's no time for everything in the torah to be taught
00:18:23so a new believer who's going to fellowship with other believers who are studying the word
00:18:31they're going to there are some basic things that we need to teach people
00:18:37give up idolatry give up sexual immorality stealing murder these kinds of things all right let's stop that
00:18:44right now and then sit in on our study and we're going to read through the torah and the other
00:18:52scriptures and we're going to talk about it and as subjects come up sometimes there are going to be
00:18:58some things that shock and startle people and we can't really avoid that it's going to happen
00:19:03but we do need to be able to we need to be aware of new people and say when we
00:19:11get to talking about
00:19:11sacrifices and what do these things mean and what is blood atonement and why does god demand sacrifices
00:19:18here and then over here he says i hate your sacrifices i never wanted that we need to be able
00:19:24to talk about those things in a way that isn't shoving these things down people's throats in kind
00:19:30of a gentle introduction and done over time and i think that was the point of what the apostles were
00:19:37trying to say let's start them out with these big rules because moses is taught in every synagogue
00:19:43around the empire and they can go hear moses taught wherever they're at and nobody has to have
00:19:51everything right nobody has to follow the calendar exactly right nobody has to have their diet exactly
00:19:57right ever really we're all becoming more mature and perfected over time nobody has to have it totally
00:20:07right on at any point in their mortal lives here and i don't think anybody ever will so we shouldn't
00:20:14expect people to especially people who are new we do need to give them some grace sorry i understand that
00:20:22but sometimes it's very very difficult dealing with people like i have this friend back home today is
00:20:36diwali and today's the 31st is it today yeah okay yeah today is diwali and i was speaking with her
00:20:47last night
00:20:48and she was telling me oh she's cooking for diwali i said you're cooking for diwali i said
00:20:55you're celebrating diwali no i'm not celebrating but i'm just cooking some food and
00:21:06around this time you will have a lot of the indians they will make roti and i'm just cooking the
00:21:16curry
00:21:17that will go with the roti and she was like going round and round so what i did i just
00:21:24cut off the
00:21:24conversation and i changed the topic because i didn't know what else to tell her right yeah i can understand
00:21:34if
00:21:35she said well you know i'm just if the intention was just cooking some curry and getting
00:21:43the roti to go with the curry but when she's going to be saying that she diwali tomorrow is diwali
00:21:51and
00:21:52to me it sounded as though she was celebrating diwali so i didn't go deep into it what i did
00:22:02was
00:22:02ask her a question she answered me and i just changed the topic because i didn't know what to tell
00:22:10her
00:22:10she started to talk about halloween and halloween demonic and things so you it's like you're condemning
00:22:20one celebration to embracing another so it's hard sometimes especially to people that have known
00:22:28for decades when they're supposed to be christians and i do normally send the writings about
00:22:42the biblical feasts and all that but to me it doesn't really i don't know as you said paul
00:22:52plan to apollo's water but god gives increase that's all i can say yeah you can't fix everything for
00:23:00everybody right away it takes time and patience there's um lots of good thoughts here i'm just wondering
00:23:10if paul was referring in this these verses to controversy over food that has been purchased in
00:23:19the market and it's unknown whether it's been sacrificed to an idol it i'm just wondering how
00:23:25that would affect the meaning of the verses we're on now i think that paul's stance on that is that
00:23:34there's nothing inherently wrong with that meat as long as you're not participating in the sacrifice
00:23:40of the celebration itself and but that's a gray area for most people if you think about today is halloween
00:23:49and i don't know if it's a big deal in canada but it's a pretty big deal in the united
00:23:54states especially
00:23:55for kids and even churches get really into it and i've never really understood that and once you start
00:24:04thinking about is this really does this really honor god to celebrate a festival of the dead and these all
00:24:13these pagan practices even if we don't know exactly where they came from a lot of these practices are
00:24:19pretty clearly a pagan origin somewhere back in time once you start questioning those things in
00:24:25trying to remove them from your life where exactly is the line what if there's a halloween party at work
00:24:33should you stay out of the break room should you avoid that altogether close your office door and
00:24:39lock it so nobody can talk to you they have a lunch a halloween themed lunch should you not eat
00:24:46that
00:24:47there there are a lot of considerations here if you participate in that in any way will somebody
00:24:53else see you doing that and think oh this person is a hypocrite not doing what they say they that
00:25:00they
00:25:01believe in or will they think oh this person is really serious about their faith so it must be okay
00:25:06to do halloween and i think that's really the kind of thing that paul is talking about here
00:25:11if you know that there are people in your circle who are struggling with these issues
00:25:18don't go and do things that are going to push them over the edge or they're going to make them
00:25:22question their faith or your faith and damage either your relationship with them or their relationship
00:25:29with god just be sensitive about those controversial issues that people are struggling with so in paul's
00:25:36context specifically about meat sacrifice to idols if you're in a pagan city and you have people in your
00:25:45fellowship who they they grew up sacrificing to idols in participating in these celebrations where
00:25:52they're eating the sacrifice and now they've come to faith in yeshua and they want to give up all of
00:25:57the idolatry they don't want anything to do with it and they think even if i eat that meat that's
00:26:03sold in
00:26:03the market even though i'm not actually doing it in honor of the idol i'm still going to be thinking
00:26:10about it so i'm just not even going to touch it that's just we shouldn't do that let's say
00:26:14you didn't grow up that way you grew up in a believing household never participated in idolatry
00:26:22into you which is barbecue who cares where it was cooked as long as it was kosher killed and it's
00:26:28something that god allows people to eat if you bring this to your fellowship potluck
00:26:36and you say oh yeah this was leftovers from the sacrifice to diana or something
00:26:43and it's okay because you can lecture all you want about why it's okay but if it bothers people's
00:26:50conscience if they can't eat it without thinking about the god or whatever that it was killed in honor
00:26:56of then that's being unkind to them you shouldn't put people in a position where they have to struggle
00:27:04with that it's okay to talk to them about it and have gentle conversations with them and over time
00:27:11they will learn they'll learn they'll gain better discernment and their faith in god and in his grace
00:27:19will strengthen to the point where it no longer bothers their conscience to do something that god
00:27:25allows but that they once associated with something pagan does that make sense yes because i can see how
00:27:34that would be an issue in a congregation in rome yeah and i was using the example of halloween because
00:27:42that's a little closer to home i remember asking when i was fairly new to keeping torah i asked one
00:27:49of
00:27:49my pastors that is it is halloween candy does that count as meat sacrificed to idols and obviously at the
00:27:57time i didn't really understand how sacrifices and that kind of thing worked but i'm not participating in
00:28:04halloween in any way if somebody brings some extra candy leftover candy and leaves it on the in the
00:28:10break room at work sure i might sample some of that yeah but i would have to be careful with
00:28:17how i do that
00:28:18and i wouldn't bring halloween candy to our congregations fellowship because that would give the wrong message
00:28:24go ahead shubha yeah jay when you were coming from a hindu faith this this food being sacrificed to
00:28:34idols like it's saying that it it affects the conscience of a person who has been traditionally
00:28:43brought up in a practice where generation upon generation we have worshipped idols and food being
00:28:52offered to idols it still affects me because for me it still bothers me that even when my mother goes
00:29:02to
00:29:03the temple or and we we're not sacrificing animals or anything but i think i may have shared this
00:29:09before we do offer fruits and vegetables and those are like vegetables like cucumber and then what is
00:29:17brought back to me in my conscience it still pricks me that i don't want to eat that simply because
00:29:24for
00:29:25me the connection immediately goes to an idol now for me to explain to my mother that hey mom i
00:29:32can't do
00:29:33this anymore does create a conflict but at that point she is not a believer she is by far not
00:29:42even like
00:29:43a christ or a believer in christ or whatever far be it from understanding what it means to be torah
00:29:51observant and all of that but yet for me i feel if i eat that it pricks my conscience and
00:30:00i completely get
00:30:01this aspect of scripture where it's saying because i still am not at that place where i can just disregard
00:30:08that if that makes sense i can understand that and that is what is um i don't know honestly if
00:30:16even
00:30:17down the years i'm going to be able to do that so i understand what the scripture is saying
00:30:24and interestingly enough for me at work i'm a preschool teacher so in school we are doing something called
00:30:34trunk or treat and fall feasts but i will not celebrate in terms of i'm not the one who's going
00:30:42to dress up in a costume or even endorse that celebration but as a part of my job i have
00:30:49to be
00:30:50there to do my duty to do my job responsibility but in but then i have colleagues and parents ask
00:30:58me hey
00:30:58why aren't you in costume but then that gives me an opportunity to say hey this is what i believe
00:31:04in
00:31:05so i think conversely if i look at one aspect of my life is with my hindu upbringing which i
00:31:12deal with
00:31:13differently whereas now here in america knowing what i know i can you know practice my faith without
00:31:22having to compromise anything so yeah that dilemma i think is something which which i have to deal with
00:31:31so yeah that's all i wanted to share yeah those are good observations that kind of reminds me of
00:31:38i don't know if you remember the story of nam and the syrian general he goes to elisha to be
00:31:44healed from
00:31:45leprosy and he's healed from washing in the jordan and he's still he's he hasn't adopted totally the
00:31:52religion of yahweh but he has declared that yahweh is his god and that's who he's going to worship from
00:31:58now on but he's still trying to do it in his old pagan ways so he picks up some dirt
00:32:04from israel and he
00:32:06takes it back home so that he can put it down on a carpet and he can pray or kneel
00:32:11on the ground of
00:32:12israel and his intent is good and it seems a little odd but there's nothing specifically
00:32:21sinful about that but then he has to go into the temple because he works for the king he is
00:32:28the
00:32:28king's right hand man and the king goes into the temple and the king is an old man and he
00:32:34needs the
00:32:34general's help he needs namen's help to hold him up when he goes and he bows before his false god
00:32:40and if namen is going to continue serving as a general he's got to go into this pagan temple with
00:32:47his king and he's got to bow down in this temple and he tells elisha i'm going to do this
00:32:55but when i'm
00:32:55there i'm going to be bowing down to yahweh even though i'm not telling anybody and that's probably not
00:33:01the best but you got to start somewhere and it's when you're working in a system where you don't
00:33:10have control of things sometimes you have to make some allowances because you've got you're you are
00:33:17under the orders of somebody else so when you're doing things under their name you don't have as much
00:33:24leeway to follow your conscience is would be ideal it would be great if we could all be self-employed
00:33:32and live our lives however we choose but the world just doesn't work that way i think in some
00:33:38circumstances where you have liberty in the sense that you don't have to eat this food or you don't
00:33:45have to bow down or you don't you have a lot more freedom to make those kind of choices and
00:33:51where you
00:33:52were talking about the halloween candy thing it's like i don't want to eat any halloween candy i know
00:33:58that it's not food sacrifice to idols but i don't want to even have anything to do with it and
00:34:04i don't
00:34:04want to have on an off chance somebody see me eating a piece of halloween candy and think that means
00:34:11i
00:34:11endorse it so it's i have liberty to not have to eat that nobody needs halloween candy
00:34:22i'm speaking as a nutritionist here but i don't know we can talk about that later
00:34:28i'm kidding but i have an option it's like i have other food i can eat so i don't need
00:34:35to eat it
00:34:37and so i think those are things that i just for whatever reason it's not because i feel like i'm
00:34:42sinning but i do feel like i want to stay as far away from that as possible like i said
00:34:48earlier today
00:34:49is one of my least favorite days of the year maybe one day it'll become my favorite day but
00:34:54for other reasons that's exactly how i feel also about the diwali celebration back home
00:35:03that if the food is being cooked at home it's not cooked in specific places but just the mere idea
00:35:15of
00:35:16today is diwali and on the day of diwali they will cook food not they will cook different food but
00:35:27not meat
00:35:29because it's supposed to be a it is a hindu holiday but to me just the idea of celebrating the
00:35:39day
00:35:40i try to avoid it because i've done it as a child young person growing up we celebrate all these
00:35:49different holidays diwali and all these different holidays so i try to stay far away but anyone who's
00:35:59still celebrating it or mentioning that they're cooking in honor of the day i try to avoid having
00:36:07any conversation especially when i really don't know what to tell you i just thought of another
00:36:13kind of humorous example i went home to visit my parents not my home i went to my parents home
00:36:19to
00:36:19visit them a couple weeks back and my mom mentioned that my dad always has fish on friday he grew
00:36:29up
00:36:29catholic but he left catholic church 50 years ago so i thought that was a little funny and she says
00:36:35not for any kind of religious reason just that's just his habit he has to eat fish on friday i
00:36:41just
00:36:41thought it was humorous that here is a religious tradition that he's following apparently for totally
00:36:47non-religious reasons it just happens to align with a religious holy day catholics eating fish on
00:36:54friday during lent is it only during lent that they do that paula i can't remember in the modern time
00:37:01for most catholics it's only during lent but there are small groups of people who still adhere to the
00:37:09old school like every friday my parents when they were growing up like before vatican 2 that was a big
00:37:19thing that they did on a regular basis every friday yeah i grew up with a lot of
00:37:26catholic friends back in india because the catholic is largely predominantly and super influential
00:37:35and i remember growing up with neighbors who were catholic one of my earliest childhood friends from
00:37:43kindergarten was a catholic and every friday they used to eat only seafood which included anything like
00:37:53shrimp or fish or fish with rice and mostly shrimp and now when i think back
00:38:00i can't help but chuckle that of all the fish they chose shrimp
00:38:07and i think about that that is funny but yes it's interesting how
00:38:14people's food habits are so unique and so curious so far away from what we know to be the truth
00:38:25in so
00:38:26many different ways but yeah and i when i really think about diwali right now my mother is celebrating
00:38:31diwali back in india and we've we have conversations and she is oh i wish you were here and everything
00:38:38we
00:38:39could have done this and that and all i do is i've learned over the years is it's okay to
00:38:45just listen
00:38:46and let her have what she has to say because she finally is my mother i can't continue not listening
00:38:53and getting annoyed and irritated just because she's talking about diwali then how am i you know
00:39:00showing her love or compassion or grace if i continue to say mom what you're doing is wrong you
00:39:06can't do this you can't do that but i was just thinking yeah that at least now i have the
00:39:12temperance and the a little bit more wisdom than i did 15 years ago to just let her say her
00:39:21her thing
00:39:22what she has to say next her for who she is but that doesn't mean i have to compromise who
00:39:28i am
00:39:28and what i know to be true just to let her she's an elderly lady and she that's all she
00:39:35knows and
00:39:36what you do you continue praying for your family and you can only ask the holy spirit to reveal what
00:39:43he's able to reveal i can't reveal it to her i can just say this is what i believe in
00:39:48and this is what
00:39:49i'm going to follow and honestly diwali halloween to me it's all the same i really see no difference
00:39:58in the principal idea yeah all right let's move on to verse 20 next slide is verses 20 and 21
00:40:09it's the same topic but slightly different approach do not for the sake of food destroy the work of god
00:40:16everything is indeed clean but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats
00:40:21it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble
00:40:28one thing that i want to address right away here everything is indeed clean what does paul mean by that
00:40:37elsewhere in the new testament it talks about clean and unclean there's nothing unclean that will
00:40:44be allowed in the new jerusalem paul talks about removing all unclean things from your life
00:40:53so he doesn't mean everything you could possibly conceive of is clean he i think he's talking about
00:41:00one of two things he's either saying that all of these things that you would that would otherwise
00:41:07be clean they're all there's nothing wrong with eating them like all of these things are indeed clean
00:41:13meaning if you're going to go to the market and you're going to buy beef or chicken or lamb all
00:41:20of
00:41:20these things are clean but don't don't eat them if by eating them you're going to cause somebody else
00:41:28to stumble i don't think he could possibly mean that everything you could conceivably eat is clean
00:41:36it's along the same lines of trying to remember where else it is i think it's in timothy but i
00:41:44didn't
00:41:44write down the specific reference i've got it somewhere but where he talks about how
00:41:52essentially everything everything that god created is good if it's used for the purpose that god created it
00:41:59and it's the same thing here everything is indeed clean if it's used for what god made it to be
00:42:06used
00:42:06for even pigs and dogs and all of these animals they are clean in their purposes and in their context
00:42:15if a pig is out there cleaning up the garbage of the world cleaning up the forest floor whatever pigs
00:42:21do out in the wild that animal is perfectly clean you can touch that big that doesn't harm you it
00:42:27doesn't do anything bad to you he might bite you he might gore you with his tusks or something that
00:42:33would be bad but there's nothing unclean about that pig it's the meat of the pig when you eat it
00:42:39that's unclean so there are things in the world that are unclean there are unclean actions
00:42:48forbidden sexual activity these things are unclean but the activities sexuality itself is not unclean
00:42:56it's what you do with it that makes it unclean does that make sense yes okay so for the sake
00:43:05of food
00:43:06don't destroy the work of god just because you can't eat something doesn't mean that you should eat it in
00:43:12front of somebody who believes it's a sin it may not be a sin to eat it but if you're
00:43:18going to cause
00:43:18that person to question their faith or to violate their own conscience maybe you should just forego
00:43:25that this time you can eat that at home or just don't tell them about it i'm not sure if
00:43:31i have
00:43:31anything else to say about that any other comments on that idea or on verse 20 i think we've mostly
00:43:36covered that topic already in verse 21 paul brings up the topic of alcohol and this is a really good
00:43:43example of this whole topic alcoholism is a problem for a significant percentage of the population many
00:43:52people have problems with all kinds of substances drugs and alcohol it doesn't mean that those things
00:43:58are a sin it's god even specifically authorizes drinking strong alcohol at sukkot and during
00:44:08the feasts of of ascent when you bring your first fruits that doesn't mean that you should be a
00:44:15drunkard that's a problem and it doesn't mean that you should that you have to drink there is no command
00:44:21that says you must drink alcohol and so if you are fellowshipping with somebody who has a weakness for
00:44:26alcohol and maybe physiologically whether it's genetic or an acquired condition where even a
00:44:36little bit of alcohol will trigger some kind of response that makes them want more and unable to
00:44:42control themselves it would you would it's a very unloving thing to then drink alcohol in front of that
00:44:49person essentially you are taking your liberty and flaunting it in their face tempting them to do
00:44:56something that would violate their own conscience or draw them into actual sin and so whether it's
00:45:03meat or drink or i don't know a style of music or entertainment or dancing or whatever it is
00:45:12it might not be inherently sinful but if it violates somebody's conscience or brings them closer to
00:45:21temptation then that's a you may be violating the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself
00:45:30in which case then it becomes sin okay let's move on to verse 22 the faith that you have keep
00:45:37between
00:45:37yourself and god blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves
00:45:44all right this one i think is a really easy one to take out of context especially this first sentence
00:45:52he's not saying that anyone should keep your faith secret or out of the public square paul is addressing
00:45:59the attitude of some who believe that they must be conspicuous in demonstrations of their faith
00:46:03in order to make some kind of edgy public statement in today's world i'm of the opinion that we should
00:46:10have nothing whatsoever to do with halloween that's my belief and i think i have a good basis for that
00:46:15but i've seen some arguments where i'm not going to argue with people too heavily about it if somebody
00:46:23wants to do a trick or a trunk or treat at their church or some kind of outreach i don't
00:46:29approve but
00:46:30whatever that's their business but somebody who would they know that i am opposed to celebrating
00:46:40halloween and so they deliberately they come over to my house dressed in their halloween costume and
00:46:46with their halloween candy and they say hey you want some halloween candy it's not a sin it's okay
00:46:52this isn't i'm not doing this for any pagan gods or anything that would be what paul is talking about
00:46:58here you your faithfulness to god you believe that this activity is not a sin and you may or may
00:47:05not
00:47:05be right that's not the point the point is that's between you and god and if other people have a
00:47:13lower
00:47:13threshold or have weaknesses it's not your job to fix that it's your job to be loving to help them
00:47:21when
00:47:21you can to be a teacher if you're capable but it's not your job to flaunt your liberty in front
00:47:28of
00:47:28people in order to pressure them into violating their own consciences and conforming to your
00:47:36expectations i'm pretty sure that's what paul is talking about here when he says that faith that you
00:47:41have keep between yourself and god the faith that you have is in the context of doing things that are
00:47:49technically not a sin but that others may perceive as sin does anybody have any other thoughts on what
00:47:55this could mean okay i was having a discussion with someone a week or so ago and this person told
00:48:07me
00:48:08that they will not give any financial support to bill cloud because they don't see him wearing any tzitzit and
00:48:28he is going against the commandments of god because god says that you must wear fringes at
00:48:40the four corners of your garment so what do you say about that because he believes that
00:48:51bill is going against the commandments of god but should he discuss that with someone
00:49:00or he should just keep that to himself rather than talking down yeah that's this is in the same realm
00:49:09it's the same kind of thing and i think that i would happen to agree with him i think at
00:49:15least not with the
00:49:16financial support thing but bill cloud does wear tto he just wears them under his clothes
00:49:21like a lot of jews do and my opinion is that they're supposed to be seen but people have
00:49:30disagreements and i i don't i'm not gonna argue with anybody about it the people who disagree with me
00:49:37usually have good reasons for their beliefs and i'm fine with that but if your friend feels that
00:49:43strongly about it they can they are free to to discuss their opinion to try to convince other
00:49:50people that everybody should wear tzitzit and they should be visible and also free not to support bill
00:49:57cloud's ministry financially and i wouldn't pressure them to change their mind certainly if the topic came
00:50:04up i would present my opinions and say here's what i believe about it and here's why i would still
00:50:09support
00:50:10bill cloud but if you don't if you feel strongly about it and you don't want to support him that's
00:50:15fine that's okay that's exactly what i told him i said that's your choice everybody has a choice and
00:50:26if you choose not to oh the question i asked him i said do you glean anything from his teaching
00:50:32yes i do
00:50:33but i would not support him because he doesn't wear i don't see him wearing anything so that's your
00:50:40choice so would that be in comparison to what we actually discussing now yeah and i think that
00:50:51it's hard to tell who we would consider the weaker brother in that circumstance i am because he's much more
00:50:59more advanced than i am could be we had a discussion even about god and elohim and all that came
00:51:07up
00:51:07he was saying that god is a poor translation of who elohim is and therefore he will not mention
00:51:20elohim as god he will say elohim yeah i would definitely put that in this same category but
00:51:27i i wouldn't say that's the stronger brother i would say that being so focused on
00:51:38the fringe details like how do you how should you translate elohim does it really matter
00:51:46it should be accurate but i would not pressure him i would not pressure that person to say that you
00:51:53must you have to say god because if you're going to talk to people who speak english
00:51:57you have to use english words if you don't say god they're not going to know who you're talking
00:52:02about i wouldn't do that with him i there may be times when that's true and i think that's a
00:52:07valid
00:52:08argument for using the word god but i believe that is he is the one who is having the problem
00:52:19with things
00:52:20that aren't actually a sin it's not a sin to use the word god or lord or any of the
00:52:27other english words
00:52:28that people get caught up in but if it violates somebody's conscience to say god instead of elohim
00:52:34or lord instead of adonai then in their presence i might try to use elohim i might try to use
00:52:42adonai
00:52:43just to keep from just to maintain the peace with that person i think that is a very similar situation
00:52:50from that perspective yeah i agree i'm sorry i jumped in but that exactly is what it is the faith
00:52:58that you
00:52:58have keep between yourself and god and again i'll use the word god here but we all know
00:53:06what i mean so many people who are new in the faith and in following the commands they still use
00:53:16jesus
00:53:16instead of yes but that doesn't mean that they're committing a sin by by saying jesus and that's where
00:53:26when you are going to push something like that in the face of a new person it's like you are
00:53:32putting a
00:53:33stumbling block in his you know in the building faith and i get that wearing zeet zeet is very important
00:53:43and
00:53:45bill clouds personal convictions shouldn't have any bearing on another person's relationship with the father
00:53:54in that sense because who are we to say oh you we can't see his zeet zeet that doesn't mean
00:54:04that he's not
00:54:05wearing them so i i really think what you're saying jay it's my personal understanding of what the scripture is
00:54:16saying if god is saying a b c then i do a b c what somebody else is doing really
00:54:24it should not
00:54:24be it's not my place to to then say oh he's doing it wrong does that make sense yeah yeah
00:54:34and i think
00:54:35the second half of the verse may be more on point there blessed is the one who has no reason
00:54:42to pass
00:54:42judgment on himself for what he approves and i think by past judgment it might be better to say
00:54:50who has no reason to bring judgment on himself for what he approves and in this case talking about
00:54:57using the word god versus elohim sometimes i do have a tendency to be overly harsh with people
00:55:03about some of these topics especially when it comes to some sacred name beliefs and calendars
00:55:10things like that i can get harsh with people and i that's a problem there may be a time for
00:55:17that but
00:55:18most of the time random conversations on the internet are not it and by being overly harsh with people who
00:55:26are oh so sensitive about saying god or lord or even amen because there might be some pagan god whose
00:55:35name
00:55:35sounds similar i'm bringing judgment on myself by being too harsh on those people and i'm not bringing
00:55:43them to the truth i'm actually i may be helping some people on the fringes to see some truth but
00:55:49that
00:55:49specific person i'm more likely to be driving them away from the truth than bringing them to it by being
00:55:55so
00:55:55harsh with them and so by driving them from the truth i'm bringing god's judgment on myself and
00:56:03this is one of those i just have to call it a sin i don't know what else to call
00:56:07it now
00:56:09it's something that i struggle with all the time and it those aren't the only topics there there are
00:56:15numerous topics where i get so frustrated with people that i will talk about how stupid this idea
00:56:22is and this is ridiculous and stop with your nonsense and things like that and really i should
00:56:30i need to learn to control myself and not be so hard on people because i don't think i'm helping
00:56:36them when i do that i think this is where it starts to feel like family squabbles this is where
00:56:44i start
00:56:45to think about older siblings and younger siblings as children and the insane arguments that they'll have
00:56:53and how nobody really is listening to anybody they're just both yelling at each other what they think is
00:56:59the right thing to do and the parent is really the only one who knows at that point
00:57:06um what you're saying i think is true is it's like even in the situation you're talking about
00:57:11that you are challenged in this way it a lot of times it seems like you're triggered
00:57:21by someone who is of a different opinion saying this is how it has to be for everybody
00:57:29which is also not necessarily loving and i i'm not i'm not saying that absolves you of what you're
00:57:36responsible for but i am saying that in particular on social media we have a lot of that sort of
00:57:45dynamic and not a whole lot of nuanced discussion happening in many cases so there's a setup in some
00:57:54ways for that kind of thing but in in personal relationships in in people who have really strong
00:58:02relationships in person and you don't tend to have that dynamic because you're seeing people
00:58:06face to face because you're not going to behave in the same way a lot of times that you do
00:58:14anonymously behind a keyboard and i don't mean that you don't behave well on social media i'm just
00:58:21saying there's a dynamic there's psychologically something that changes in those settings that really is
00:58:30fraught with a lot of problems but i do think that just like kids one saying this is the way
00:58:37it's
00:58:38supposed to be and then the other one saying this is the way it's supposed to be when it gets
00:58:41into that
00:58:41zone of this is the way everybody needs to do it and then the other person is saying no this
00:58:47is the way
00:58:47everybody needs to do it i think both are guilty in that sense of what paul is talking about here
00:58:54and so both people have to come to that discussion with humility and just because one doesn't come
00:59:02with humility doesn't mean the other one is absolved from doing that from coming to that argument with
00:59:07humility so it's all the more reason to constantly be checking ourselves and seeking humility in our
00:59:18conversations and what we're doing yeah one thing that's the there's a pattern in all of these examples
00:59:26that we've given where the person who is being more strict on these kind of fringe edge cases is the
00:59:34one
00:59:34that we tend to label as the weaker brother because they're more sensitive in their conscience but that's
00:59:40not always true sometimes the more strict person really is right what if your friend who is bothered
00:59:48by the name god what if it turns out that he's right about that someday i have to acknowledge that
00:59:53i could
00:59:53be wrong he's a very intelligent person i can tell you that i've learned a lot from him so that's
01:00:00why
01:00:01i label him as a stronger person and i as a weaker person so i don't argue with him i
01:00:07know when we talked
01:00:09about god and hello him i said listen he brought us out to bring us in and he knows that
01:00:15we are aware
01:00:16of his name and we just gotta run to understand each other i didn't prolong the conversation because
01:00:25i do not like confrontation with people every time i realize that there's a confrontation
01:00:31i just back right out i know where to just draw the line and i draw the line but i
01:00:37know for a fact
01:00:39there was a time i almost fell and i didn't call on hell we might call on god i didn't
01:00:46know what to do
01:00:47i didn't want to fall and all i keep out saying oh god help me oh god help me i
01:00:52keep crying oh god help
01:00:54me and then he gave me the wisdom to lower myself instead of trying to go towards my wheelchair
01:01:03he gave me the wisdom to lower myself down i normally say elohim if i'm writing stuff to people
01:01:10but i didn't call on elohim i didn't call on israel i said oh god help me and he helped
01:01:16me because
01:01:17god searches our heart he says that he knows the intent thereof so i don't go about judging people
01:01:25about whether they say god or religion because most of my all of my associates 95 percent of my
01:01:34associates don't know anything about messianic teachings and all that
01:01:40but i will still share my knowledge with them it's up to them whether they want to receive it
01:01:50because i can't push it down your throat
01:01:54i don't criticize anybody for saying god or jesus i don't yeah that's good okay let's go on to verse
01:02:0323 but whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats because the eating is not from faith
01:02:09for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin this is talking about the weaker brother who
01:02:16he is his conscience is bothered by eating this meat that was sacrificed to an idol and
01:02:24if his conscience is bothered he shouldn't eat it and because the eating is not from faith he's not
01:02:30eating it from a place of where he's being faithful to god he feels like he's being unfaithful even if
01:02:38technically it's not a sin if he feels like he's being unfaithful to god then he shouldn't do that
01:02:45because he's going to be searing his conscience and conditioning himself to do things that he feels
01:02:50are wrong to do sometimes our feelings are just wrong sometimes because the way we've been raised the
01:02:58way we've been indoctrinated into false religious ideas sometimes our conscience tells us that something
01:03:05that's right is actually wrong i know that this is the right thing to do because god says this is
01:03:11required i must do this but my conscience is really bothered by it because i've been brought up this
01:03:17other way so there are times when there's going to be a conflict but as long as your conscience is
01:03:24telling you not to do something that you're not commanded to do then go with your conscience if your
01:03:31conscience is telling you to do something that you're not commanded not to do then you should do
01:03:36it it's only when there's a conflict between god's commands and your conscience that you really need to
01:03:43go with god's commandments and override your conscience because you need to undo that conditioning
01:03:48that we've gotten from the world and from our education system or whatever religion we've
01:03:54brought were brought up with this this reminds me of when yeshua is talking to the pharisees and
01:04:04they've seen his disciples eating with unwashed hands and they're saying why are your disciples eating
01:04:11with unwashed hands it's unclean and yeshua corrects them and says that it's not what goes into the
01:04:19mouth that defiles the man it's what comes out of them now of course when they're talking about food
01:04:24in this context these are jews talking to jews so they're not talking about eating unclean meats
01:04:29they're talking about eating things that are clean it's not ultimately it's not the thing that
01:04:35goes into your mouth that makes you defiled it's what's in your heart and what you eat frequently
01:04:41comes from your heart if you hate the things of god you're going to ignore what he says about
01:04:47what you should and shouldn't eat if you've been indoctrinated in to a religious tradition that says
01:04:54it's wrong to listen to god's commandments about those things now your conscience is messed up and
01:05:00you've got this thing in your heart that you need to overcome but whatever it is that that your
01:05:06conscience is telling you it's coming from something in your heart so if your conscience is telling you
01:05:13to do the wrong thing it's because the wrong thing is in your heart and so the second half of
01:05:21the verse
01:05:21where he says whatever does not proceed from faith is sin one of the goals of god's commandments
01:05:28in reconditioning our conscience to follow what's right is to be conformed into to his law
01:05:38reshaping our minds so that we're thinking the same thoughts that god does so that our desires
01:05:43conform with his and when our desires conform with his the things that come out of us which includes
01:05:50the things that we eat the things that we say how we behave with each other these things are going
01:05:55to
01:05:55come from a place of faithfulness legitimate faithfulness that is in alignment with god's commandments
01:06:00and then whenever we do things that are in contradiction to that we know that they're a sin
01:06:08so when you're first coming into faith these when we're talking about new people coming into faith and
01:06:13just learning what god's commandments are they're going to be confused about a lot of these things
01:06:18their consciences aren't conformed to god's commandments yet and none of us are completely
01:06:23we're all working on that our whole lives but they have to be you have to be extra careful with
01:06:29these
01:06:29people not to push them to do something that their conscience is telling them is wrong even if it's in
01:06:36a
01:06:36shady a gray area where it's not necessarily wrong as long as their conscience isn't leading them to do
01:06:43something that is clearly contrary to god's commandments i feel like i'm rambling but hopefully that's making some sense
01:06:52for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin any thoughts or comments on that people talk about
01:06:59doing something in good faith and it's not a term that's used a lot anymore but like in regular everyday
01:07:06conversation but in in contractual kind of dealings and that kind of thing you kind of hear about it
01:07:13and i think that there's how do i say that the way that we interact with people in relationship
01:07:25we're either acting in good faith or not in many cases and that can't always be observed from the
01:07:35outside what people intended but we can know that we can know if we search our hearts and we allow
01:07:46the
01:07:46spirit to search our hearts in that way we can know that we're acting in good faith and one of
01:07:51the
01:07:51things i think about with this is that if we are acting against our conscience or against what we know
01:08:00is
01:08:00right then we can trace that back look at what what we say we believe and what the scriptures say
01:08:10is true
01:08:12and if we're really going to be humble before god we're going to have to acknowledge in some cases that
01:08:20we're acting we're acting we're not acting in faith with him we're not acting in a way that would honor
01:08:29the relationship and i think that's really more or less what i get from this is that someone's not
01:08:37acting in a way that that demonstrates that they're having good will toward the other party in the
01:08:46relationship and which this would be god right yeah if they're more concerned with proving that they're
01:08:53right or that the other person is misguided or whatever then yeah they're they're not working to
01:09:01build up the body they're working to build up themselves yeah i believe this is in alignment with
01:09:09hebrews 11 6 which says that without faith it is impossible to please god and those that
01:09:23come to god must believe that he is and that he's a rewarder of those of them that diligently seek
01:09:34him
01:09:34because if whatever whatever we do does not proceed from faith is sin that's because it's a sin
01:09:50because the scripture says so it says so without faith it is impossible to please god that's true
01:10:00some people say paul wrote hebrews i don't know but the writer of hebrews verse 6 in chapter 11
01:10:11says we can't please god if we don't have faith if we're not pleasing god means that we're sinning
01:10:18am i wrong all right yeah i think you're right you're right so if we come to god we must
01:10:27believe that he
01:10:28he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him and if you
01:10:38you will diligently seek him and find him it doesn't give you a time span but you'll find him
01:10:51because your diligence will cause you to find him yeah you have to be persistent that's right
01:10:58i think this also points back to the garden one of the things that happened was that eve
01:11:06was like asserting some things and obviously the enemy had placed doubts in her mind
01:11:14and maybe at the moment she didn't know she had doubts um but in the end she obviously made a
01:11:22choice
01:11:22that was not pleasing to god she obviously sinned even if she didn't really understand the command
01:11:28clearly it would have still been faith because she would have been saying i'm not really sure what he
01:11:33said i'm not really sure i understood what he said so i'm just not going to eat more to the
01:11:40point of
01:11:41what paul is talking about in this chapter eve giving the fruit to adam and saying hey this is
01:11:47good to eat you should have some that put in the context of this chapter this conversation
01:11:54eve would have thought of herself as the stronger one and adam is the one weaker and fade
01:11:59saying hey this is okay it's not that bad you should try this and it should have bothered adam's
01:12:04conscience and i'm sure it did and in the context of romans 14 eve is actually thinking of herself as
01:12:14the stronger one but she's not adam adam should have been the stronger one but he he violated his own
01:12:21conscience in order to eat and then condemn the entire human race because of it but where in the
01:12:29world have we not seen women thinking they're the stronger in the day and time we live in yeah it's
01:12:36pretty common right now at least as far as moral judgment and wisdom goes oh yeah even physically women
01:12:45seem to think that they're stronger many times now it's a strange one
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