- 2 days ago
The Common Sense Bible Study crew continue through Romans 12:14–18, focusing on blessing those who persecute you, refusing to curse, and overcoming evil with good. The group discusses everyday “persecution” such as workplace sabotage, constant criticism, and doctrinal conflict, and offers practical ways to bless offenders through prayer, speaking well of them, thoughtful gifts, and unexpected kindness that disrupts cycles of retaliation.
The discussion moves to “rejoice with those who rejoice” and “weep with those who weep,” emphasizing empathy as relationship-strengthening and citing examples from Isaiah, Philemon and Onesimus, and Jesus weeping at Lazarus’s tomb. It then covers living in harmony, avoiding haughtiness, associating with the lowly, and not being wise in one’s own sight, including humility in disagreements and cultural differences. Finally, it addresses repaying no one evil for evil, doing what is honorable in public view, being shrewd yet harmless, and living peaceably with all as far as it depends on you.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
The discussion moves to “rejoice with those who rejoice” and “weep with those who weep,” emphasizing empathy as relationship-strengthening and citing examples from Isaiah, Philemon and Onesimus, and Jesus weeping at Lazarus’s tomb. It then covers living in harmony, avoiding haughtiness, associating with the lowly, and not being wise in one’s own sight, including humility in disagreements and cultural differences. Finally, it addresses repaying no one evil for evil, doing what is honorable in public view, being shrewd yet harmless, and living peaceably with all as far as it depends on you.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
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LearningTranscript
00:00:02so welcome back common sense bible study last time we ended on romans 12 13
00:00:10so we are on verse 14 bless those who persecute you bless and do not curse them
00:00:16rejoice with those who rejoice weep with those who weep live in harmony with one another do not
00:00:22be haughty but associate with the lowly never be wise in your own sight repay no one evil for evil
00:00:28but give thought to what is honorable thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all
00:00:33if possible so far as it depends on you live peaceably with all beloved never avenge yourself
00:00:39but leave it to the wrath of god for it is written vengeance is mine i will repay says the
00:00:45lord
00:00:46to the contrary if your enemy is hungry feed him if he is thirsty give him something to drink
00:00:51for by so doing you will heat burning coals on his head do not be overcome by evil but overcome
00:00:57evil
00:00:57with good all right so going back to verse 14 bless those who persecute you bless and do not curse
00:01:04them there is always persecution going on somewhere and i'm not sure that paul is really talking about
00:01:11active persecution because of your faith i think it includes that i'm sure but i don't think that's
00:01:18really his primary topic he's mostly talking about the people who are around you on a day-to-day basis
00:01:25not talking about the emperor off in rome but the guy next door your boss the shopkeeper or if you're
00:01:33a
00:01:33slave your master these are the people he's trying to teach his audience who to interact with who to
00:01:41have a relationship with so in our modern context what does persecution look like on a day-to-day basis
00:01:50and again i'm not necessarily talking about people who are being persecuted for their faith
00:01:55there are plenty of places where that happens most of the muslim world any communist country north
00:02:01korea is one of the worst china even in england now but that's not necessarily what i mean what i
00:02:09mean
00:02:09is the people who are in your life what does that kind of persecution look like anybody have any
00:02:15thoughts backstabbers at work yeah i know uh in different environments so i was in the union for
00:02:22many years and um so one of the things about the union mentality uh the majority of union mentality is
00:02:33kind of like crabs in a bucket everybody gets along fine unless somebody is an overachiever or
00:02:40somebody who desires more than what they you know kind of somebody who desires to do more to benefit
00:02:47to have a symbiotic relationship with the company you're working for than your union brother right
00:02:54you'll get smashed and blackballed and like downright legitimately persecuted
00:03:01for doing anything beyond what is the system norm at the time you know like when i went to um
00:03:09uh i was in the union i was in was a national local so the 669 it was you go
00:03:15anywhere to work
00:03:16except for the metro areas you had to get a temporary card to go in to work with their union
00:03:21so i would go
00:03:22down and work with whatever in minneapolis st paul they they had their own local and their local
00:03:28to be fair was awesome i mean the money was just to the moon right and the first job and
00:03:36when you're
00:03:36on 669 you were kind of pushed a little bit but in the cities you weren't and so i go
00:03:42down there and
00:03:43the and the guy come into me and i say i had to work in a big office building or
00:03:46whatever we shut the
00:03:47shut something down to do something dumb whatever and he he's like okay here's your stuff here's your
00:03:56tools here's your work area i'll see you at break whatever and then i'm looking around going
00:04:03and i'm he's all out the door i go what do i do when i'm done he comes walks up
00:04:08to me gets like
00:04:09just the three feet away mark and he goes here's your stuff here's your tools this is your work area
00:04:17i'll see you at break that was it that was what i had to do that whole day and if
00:04:22i came out of my
00:04:23work area if i finished early i was going to be persecuted literally persecuted and to be persecuted
00:04:28is he would call the office and go this guy's a troublemaker don't send him to me anymore
00:04:33then you were out of job is that interesting or no so yeah yeah but it was even worse if
00:04:41they saw
00:04:41that you had an extra tool a special tool that you'd use like i invented there were several tools
00:04:46like laser levels and things i was i had i had invented lasers and put them to levels and calibrated
00:04:52them before there was such a thing as a laser level and some of these other things i did and
00:04:58uh
00:04:58like tools to install anchors that even some of the foremen go hey can you make me one of those
00:05:03tools to install the thing that whatever you know because it would just save time less effort you
00:05:07could take your b game and just smoke anybody and in productivity which was helpful if you were like
00:05:12me a raging alcoholic and so that was uh that was a thing i did to offset whatever but anyway
00:05:19my point
00:05:19is a lot of people hated it and they would report you for having a special tool in your car
00:05:25so that that is that's the most bright interpretation of what you're saying i think in persecution regular
00:05:34life yeah june go ahead i consider someone always criticizing you that's the first question where i'm
00:05:45concerned you never do anything right everything you do they always have something negative to say
00:05:55and to me that is persecution condemning people never even appreciating what they do for you better
00:06:05i mean they could do good or they do bad is the same reaction you get from people
00:06:12i've experienced that and that i consider a lot of persecution because you don't have peace of mind
00:06:20you want to know okay i am doing this i wonder if this person is going to be pleased
00:06:26you know your thoughts always got to be stretching out of you know it's just you can't have peace of
00:06:34mind being around people like those yeah never satisfied with what they've done yeah that happens in all
00:06:43kinds of different areas of life too it can be at work or family is a real common one for
00:06:50that kind
00:06:50of thing to happen trying to think of some other examples you know if somebody doesn't like you
00:06:56they can just make life difficult for you you know sabotage your work or you know it's being a general
00:07:04thorn in your side arguing with you every chance they get insulting you in front of others things like
00:07:11that that just just anything to make your life harder and so paul's advice here is bless them and do
00:07:19not
00:07:19curse them so in those situations what would you do to bless those people pray for them
00:07:28pray for them because some of them are not even conscious of the fact that they're persecuting you
00:07:36because they just see themselves as superior to you and they just don't play everything that you do
00:07:48so the most you can do is pray for them what can you do you can't have any conflict with
00:07:54them because
00:07:54they're going to win but as god said vengeance is mine just hand it over to him and let him
00:08:01deal with it
00:08:03yep that is true anyone else have some i've got another one i've got a recent one okay this does
00:08:10have a this does have a spiritual so does that disqualify from what you're talking about no go ahead
00:08:17okay so my big client my one of my bigger clients he's from my old church but his wife
00:08:27has relatives that like everybody's kind of close and they go to the same church blah blah blah it's all
00:08:33the stuff and so now i'm the jew and his wife's i don't know how you call her like
00:08:41sister-in-law or something was trying to to fire me because i didn't have the same doctrine
00:08:54and therefore we were unequally yoked allegedly in her mind and so she was constantly
00:09:03trying to get into that relationship and knock me out which would have been a significant
00:09:09i probably do 60 percent of my gross revenue with him so that could be like hundred and some thousand
00:09:18a year with him right and so that would have been a huge detriment to what i was doing and
00:09:26so guess what i did what i did a bunch of free stuff for her husband and um i i
00:09:37built this he was
00:09:38afraid he wanted to have this big cul-de-sac put in on his back of his house because he
00:09:42he was renting
00:09:44out the top level and was living in the lower level and they were gonna do this and that but
00:09:48there was no driveway and he had a pond and all this other crazy stuff and he was afraid to
00:09:51do
00:09:52anything and it was ridiculous expensive well i'm pretty good with machinery so i told him i said you
00:09:59just go have a bunch of pit run and whatever dumped and then i'll come down and we'll put down
00:10:04the road
00:10:04bed and i'll i'll kind of engineer this thing because i had this weird slope and then um schedule the
00:10:10guy with class five to come because you go your pit run then you put your thing down and then
00:10:15you put
00:10:16class five and that's the campable that you know what i mean that's a driving surface and i built him
00:10:21an entire driveway from nothing and for free just to you know whatever and uh his now his uh and
00:10:33then
00:10:33a couple other things i did but anyways now this woman sings says nothing but praises
00:10:40they still think i'm a little weird but now at this last gathering i heard my wife went to some
00:10:45gathering where she was at and she was like telling everybody how what a wonderful person i was and how
00:10:50generous i was and all this other stuff it was like this just flip-flop transition from
00:10:58separate from him and do all this stuff which blah blah blah and i prayed on it and i have
00:11:04a genuine
00:11:05love for her she actually found my biological family that's how weird this was and and then so now
00:11:11that tension is gone because of the heaping coals of fire on your head i remember my old pastor you
00:11:17say
00:11:17something about god don't get him my heaping coals of fire and that's i'm i know you're okay i'm probably
00:11:22stealing your thunder on that but anyways my point is they now have an affection for me because they
00:11:29see that i am still genuinely a kind person i do have a genuine love nobody does that unless they
00:11:38have a love for the person yeah you know what i mean when it would have been so easy to
00:11:41respond in
00:11:42kind because they can't do anything for me they're not gonna they don't have the money to pay me for
00:11:47that job but that's that's like thousands of them but for me it was just like i can do this
00:11:54as a
00:11:54gesture even to the point my wife's like what are you doing yeah you know she i was questioned by
00:12:00everybody i said don't worry it was to step back it does sound like a lot of work yeah does
00:12:06anybody
00:12:06else have it was yeah does anybody else have any thoughts on what it means to bless someone who is
00:12:13persecuting you or making your life difficult so i think that speaking well of them instead of
00:12:21speaking things that are negative of course if you have an opportunity if something comes up in a
00:12:27conversation somebody's mentioning that person to speak well or sometimes not say anything at all
00:12:34but i think speaking well is better and um yeah to pray for them and to even think good thoughts
00:12:46about them to choose to believe the best i think that's all important to the outcomes yeah so that's my
00:12:57thoughts yeah i remember i like that one think good thoughts when uh congregation we were at
00:13:04a long time ago my son is almost 30 years old now when he was probably i want to say
00:13:1110 one of the
00:13:13other kids would pick on him sometimes and there was some danger that this was going to catch on
00:13:18when one kid starts picking on one and others can sometimes gang up on that one kid and that can
00:13:24become a serious problem but i talked to the kid's father and he had the idea that we should all
00:13:31go on a
00:13:31fishing trip together so me and cameron and this kid who'd been picking on him and his dad we all
00:13:37went
00:13:38fishing together and uh it wasn't really any big deal we just went to a pond and spent the afternoon
00:13:45hanging out and fishing and with nobody else around there was no particular reason for the one
00:13:52kid to be picking on cameron because usually when people do that it's because they've got an audience
00:13:58and you know they're going to get something out of it from the people who are watching so
00:14:05having just to spend time together being friendly and cooperating in something created a friendship
00:14:12between the two and there was never another problem again you know if if cameron had suggested that
00:14:18it probably wouldn't have gone you know he probably wouldn't have been as amenable to it
00:14:23but going through his dad and you know instead of complaining and saying hey you need to get your
00:14:30your kid in order going to him and saying you know we've got this problem and i would i really
00:14:35don't
00:14:35want it to get out of hand and it's going to be bad for both of our sons if we
00:14:40let it go on so
00:14:41you have any thoughts on how we can work this out in approaching it in that manner of you know
00:14:46just
00:14:46being a friend instead of being an adversary we came up with a solution and it worked out really
00:14:53well for everyone so frequently it's just a matter of not doing what the other person expects like
00:15:02with the story timothy was telling if somebody is like trying to get you fired responding by doing
00:15:11extra work for that person is completely the opposite of what they expect and it's it's very
00:15:17similar to you know like somebody with some kind of narcissistic personality disorder where they're
00:15:22always trying to manipulate you and playing games with you if you recognize that they're playing a
00:15:27game with you and you just simply stop playing along and you don't do whatever it is that you know
00:15:34that they're trying to get you to do next then it completely disrupts the game and you can actually
00:15:41make progress towards repairing the relationship so disrupting the game of persecution that's not
00:15:49always going to work obviously some people just will hate and they do what they can to make other
00:15:53people's lives miserable or like what june was saying sometimes they don't even know they're doing
00:15:58it because it's just part of who they are but when there is a possibility of having a real relationship
00:16:06some kind of healthy interaction just breaking that cycle of tit for tat will often be enough
00:16:15anybody else have any thoughts about the you know blessing someone who is engaged in some kind of petty
00:16:22persecution what about buying them a gift like probably if you know this person loves shakespeare
00:16:36and they're always talking about shakespeare writing or something you can probably buy them
00:16:47merchant of venice one of shakespeare book and give it to them have it gift wrap and put it on
00:16:55their desk
00:16:57um if you're working in the same office and when they come in and they see the book without even
00:17:06opening
00:17:06it to see where it's from just the may idea that they know this is one of shakespeare book you
00:17:12know
00:17:14and then when they open it they will see the gift is from you yeah you really have to know
00:17:21the person
00:17:21for that to work yes yes yes yeah some people will actually respond negatively if you try to be nice
00:17:30to
00:17:30them in an overt way like that but everybody i mean most people respond well to gifts sometimes you might
00:17:38be
00:17:38tempted to to be really like over the top generous and give somebody something that's like just to wow
00:17:45them and that will work sometimes but it can also be very effective to give them a series of small
00:17:53gifts
00:17:54and you think about when jacob was coming back to the promised land and you know he hears that esau
00:18:02is
00:18:02coming with 300 armed men and instead of uh confronting him in force like his entire retinue
00:18:09like to overwhelm esau with look how rich and strong i am he breaks his all of his wealth up
00:18:16into small
00:18:17groups and he starts sending small groups of things as gifts to esau so that by the time esau finally
00:18:24gets there he is no longer angry he's just what is this what is going on here and then jacob
00:18:33bows down
00:18:34to him and says all of this stuff is for you and so esau was originally coming with an armed
00:18:41party for war
00:18:42as if he was going to attack jacob and just these small gifts over a period of time weakened his
00:18:50resolve
00:18:50and wore away at that animosity until esau was at least ready to make peace i don't know what he
00:18:57had
00:18:57in his heart but at least on the outside at that moment he was be willing to be peaceful so
00:19:03gifts do
00:19:03have their place and solomon talks about that quite a bit too all right let's go into verse 15
00:19:09rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep in a sense this does really flow from verse
00:19:1714
00:19:18because the purpose of blessing someone who is persecuting you is to try to create a relationship
00:19:24and then rejoicing with those who rejoice and weeping with those who weep is also not creating
00:19:30a relationship but strengthening it so you start with a a broken relationship you repair it by blessing
00:19:38the other person and then you strengthen it through empathy and becoming at least in the other
00:19:46person's eyes the same as them like i'm suffering he's suffering because i'm suffering and you know
00:19:53you can't help but kurt you know have some kind of affinity for someone who is like that or at
00:19:58least
00:19:58who is really seems to be empathizing with whatever you're going through whether it's good or bad
00:20:04can anybody can anybody think of some actual examples of that whether real life or in stories or in
00:20:11scripture i'm going to go to isaiah 66 isaiah 66 i think it's um verse 10 rejoice with jerusalem and
00:20:23be
00:20:23glad for her all you who love her rejoice with her in joy all you who mourn over her that
00:20:29you may nurse
00:20:30and be satisfied from her consoling breast that you may drink deeply with delight from her glorious
00:20:34abundance setting aside the context of this whole prophecy god is saying that those who will rejoice
00:20:43with jerusalem and celebrate with her which you know that implies that you want the best for jerusalem
00:20:51like this is god's special possession and you want to promote what's good for her so when something is
00:20:58good when things are going well for her you want to celebrate that with her and god responds by
00:21:04allowing you to partake in whatever it is that good is happening with jerusalem by blessing jerusalem
00:21:11you are blessing yourself and of course jerusalem it does refer to the city but much more than that it
00:21:18refers to god's people especially god's faithful people i'm trying to think of an example in scripture
00:21:24of weeping uh one example is when uh jacob died and joseph went back to went back to the promised
00:21:35land to
00:21:36bury him with his forefathers and he took brought this whole big egyptian retinue with him and they were
00:21:43all weeping and you know doing the the big public mourning spectacle that people in the middle east do and
00:21:49all the canaanites were watching this and thinking wow this must have been some great powerful man from
00:21:54egypt and i don't know really what effect that might have had i can imagine that at least among
00:22:01the canaanites they might have been more willing to respect that burial site thinking that you know if
00:22:09the most powerful people in our area are burying people in this cave we probably don't want to mess
00:22:16with it because we don't want to make enemies with egypt now egypt always had problems with canaanites
00:22:21but most of the time the people in canaan were more subject to egypt than enemies and you know the
00:22:28pharaohs were always going in and putting down one rebellion or another so i'm not really sure how much
00:22:34of an effect it had but i can see where it could have had an effect like that i want
00:22:39to emphasize
00:22:41a little on the scripture with regards to paul when he um with um what's the name of this guy
00:23:00when he he wrote this letter right when he was playing for him
00:23:06and you know he was he was begging that he has become like a father to him he paul was
00:23:18in chains and
00:23:20onesimus was there um and he's sending him back and he was asking that he must they must receive him
00:23:34because when paul needed a friend he was there with him i don't know if i went out of context
00:23:44with regards
00:23:45to that right um so paul was in chains right and onesimus was there grieving with him
00:23:58and because of that he wrote this letter asking that onesimus must be received he would like them to receive
00:24:07him because when he was in chains onesimus was there with him yeah i was trying to remember which letter
00:24:16that was that was that that was in the book of philemon philemon that's what i thought yes he was
00:24:26sending
00:24:26the letter to i can't remember if we were sending the letter was i'll have to go and find it
00:24:37i think
00:24:37that is let me see it um just once he was sending the letter to philemon and yeah he said
00:24:44i appeal to
00:24:44you for my child onesimus who i have begotten in my imprisonment so onesimus was there with him
00:24:52you know as he was weeping he was weeping there with him he was giving him the support that he
00:25:00needed
00:25:01and that's what we're supposed to do when when somebody is weeping be there give them all the
00:25:07support that you possibly can you're showing your love you're extending your love with that person
00:25:15and you're showing them how much you appreciate them how much you care how much you love them
00:25:23you don't turn your back on them because you're going to be rewarded sometime or the other
00:25:30yeah that's true and probably in doing it in order to be rewarded it's probably a bad motivation
00:25:36it's not the worst i mean if if that's the motivation you've got then go with it oh um but
00:25:43doing it because it's the character of god yeah this is this is what he expects of us it builds
00:25:50relationships it it shows caring for people and it's not just showing caring for people but
00:25:57when people feel like like you understand what they're going through and that you are commiserating
00:26:04with them it really does help them feel better it helps draw them out of you know whatever misery
00:26:10they're in and the same thing with rejoicing with those who rejoice you know some people are perfectly
00:26:18happy to you know jump and dance with joy all by themselves other people need more people around
00:26:26them otherwise they just feel silly yeah there's an another passage here you know i you know i mentioned
00:26:32how you know rejoicing with those who rejoice weep with those who weep is emulating the character of god
00:26:40psalm i wrote it down here somewhere psalm 34 verses 16 to 18 yeah the face of yahweh is against
00:26:49evildoers to cut off the memory of them from the earth the righteous cry and yahweh hears and delivers
00:26:54them out of their troubles yahweh is near to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in
00:26:59spirit many are the afflictions of the righteous but yahweh delivers them out of delivers him out of them all
00:27:07so he mourns when we mourn and he rejoices when we rejoice and he wants us to be more like
00:27:13him
00:27:14and there are definitely rewards from it the stronger relationships is the biggest one
00:27:19and sometimes like in the case of philemon and onesimus the relationship that onesimus built with paul
00:27:28served him well when he went back to philemon philemon however you pronounce that in greek i don't know
00:27:34let's see anyone else have any thoughts about verse 15 what about yeshua when he knew that lazarus
00:27:47had died and when he went back hearing martha and mary their heart was so heavy
00:28:01because of the death of their brother and scripture says jesus wept many people have all types of
00:28:13explanation for that short verse in the bible jesus wept some say that jesus wept because of the unbelief
00:28:23then he had to have been he had to tell martha he is the resurrection and he is alive some
00:28:29says he
00:28:30wept because he saw the grievances and he grieved for them so he went but i believe that he saw
00:28:40the
00:28:40grievance in them he saw martha and mary how they were grieved for their brother but um yeshua had known
00:28:50that
00:28:51lazarus lazarus had died he he told his disciples that he was asleep but he knew that he was dead
00:29:01and
00:29:01you know when people are sad some people tend to make a mockery of you and that shouldn't be i
00:29:14believe when
00:29:15someone is sad we're supposed to show us show that person that you care and extend the hands of
00:29:27of love and um show them empathy and um let them know that you care because i believe that's what
00:29:38yeshua did he went he saw how sad his friends were and he went yeah i agree i think in
00:29:49the context
00:29:50that's what's going on let me read those verses start it's in john chapter 11 starting verse 32
00:29:58therefore when mary came where jesus was she saw him and fell at his feet saying to him
00:30:04lord if you had been here my brother would not have died when jesus therefore saw her weeping and
00:30:09the jews who came with her also weeping he was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled and said
00:30:14where have you lain him they said to him lord come and see jesus wept and yeah i think in
00:30:20the context
00:30:21it's not he's not weeping for lazarus he's weeping for those who are weeping for their hurt
00:30:30and really that's that's the reasons that that we do funerals we don't do funerals for the people
00:30:36who have passed on we do them for the people who are still here and it's important that you know
00:30:44in
00:30:44some cases even if you didn't know the person who died it's important to be there for your friends
00:30:49and sometimes just your presence there in you know showing that that you understand that they're
00:30:59hurting and you're just being there for them even if you're not really doing anything practical
00:31:04sometimes that's very helpful on a an emotional kind of level we're ready to go on to verse 16
00:31:1116 and 17 here together live in harmony with one another do not be haughty but associate with the
00:31:17lowly never be wise in your own sight repay no one evil for evil but give thought to what is
00:31:22to do what is honorable in the sight of all all right let's take this phrase by phrase live in
00:31:31harmony with one another what do you think that means i mean it seems pretty obvious but
00:31:37sometimes people have some surprising thoughts that i hadn't thought of be peaceful you know like
00:31:45in my neighborhood here this is a drug-infested neighborhood
00:31:53and practically everybody on drugs around here and i talked to everybody i wouldn't have them coming
00:32:06into my place there was this one girl i happened to know her because i needed transportation to go
00:32:17somewhere and she offered to take me and because of that we became friends now she smoked some marijuana
00:32:28but i still talk with her she would come over by my place and um if i need to go
00:32:38to the bathroom because
00:32:40i am by i am a bilateral amputee and um before i'd gotten independent in moving around
00:32:51um she came over several times and helped me when i have trash to throw out she will come and
00:33:00throw it out so
00:33:01i still i'm in harmony with her right and um i don't don't play her because she smokes
00:33:13and i don't shut her off shut her out because she smokes i talk to her we talk we laugh
00:33:21she will come
00:33:21over here and make joke with me and not all you are anybody in the neighborhood i will if i'm
00:33:30outside i will
00:33:31shake my hand to them they shake back and i believe like that i am living in harmony with them
00:33:38they don't
00:33:39have to come into my place i don't go into their place because i mean i can't walk anyhow but
00:33:46they
00:33:47can't say that i look as though or i think i'm above them because i may not be involved in
00:33:56the same things
00:33:57that they do yeah yeah that same kind of thing with family you know most of us probably have significant
00:34:06differences with the rest of our family and our theology or how we live
00:34:13you know i don't i know that i'm not going to convince anybody by constantly telling them that
00:34:19you're not doing that right you're supposed to do that this way when i want to think of a kind
00:34:26of a neutral
00:34:26example you know there are yeah i i do computer work i'm an it person it's what i do for
00:34:32a living
00:34:34and with microsoft products there's a dozen ways to do anything and there are shortcuts and there are
00:34:44you can use the mouse to do something or you can type to do it you can do it through
00:34:49a command line
00:34:50interface or through a graphical interface however it suits you and if i go to somebody's computer and i'm
00:34:57helping them solve a problem and they want to show me what they're doing i don't interrupt them and say
00:35:03oh no you could do that way better if you did it this way and you shouldn't do that over
00:35:07there you
00:35:07should you should do it like this that's not going to help them solve the problem we're working on
00:35:12to constantly tell them a better way to do it even if i think i'm right and i could probably
00:35:17save them
00:35:18time in the future it's not going to be received they're just not going to be grateful and it's going
00:35:23to
00:35:23create disharmony so sometimes it's better to let somebody do thing in a slightly less efficient way
00:35:30or even in a way that you think is wrong in order to preserve the relationship
00:35:36now when it comes to things like sin right and wrong you don't always have to correct everybody
00:35:43it's uh it's very difficult i mean there are some times where you have to tell people
00:35:48this is wrong and this is what god says we're supposed to do but then you don't have to keep
00:35:55telling them every time it comes up because you've told them you live your life this way they can see
00:36:00you doing it so every time they keep doing this wrong thing you don't have to tell them again now
00:36:06maybe
00:36:06it has to come up periodically but you know if you're constantly harping on something eventually
00:36:12you're just not going to have a relationship anymore and you're never going to agree with everybody on
00:36:17anything do you think the context of this is more to do with people in the body yeah mostly yeah
00:36:25i think you know in in part it's living in harmony with the people you work for you you
00:36:29know the like the example of that june had brought up of philemon and onesimus
00:36:36they were both believers but you know if philemon wasn't uh or if onesimus wasn't one of the two
00:36:42people and paul thought it was necessary for him to go back and you know go back to his master
00:36:47work
00:36:48off his debt whatever was going on he could still live in harmony with him and you know there are
00:36:54other places where paul or james they talk about you know doing the right thing within the community
00:37:01where you're at if you live in a foreign country you live according to that country's rules even if you
00:37:06think they're stupid sometimes i mean as long as they're not making you do something that's immoral
00:37:12you do things the way that they do it just to get along just because it doesn't really
00:37:19help anybody to make waves over things that don't matter too much but yeah paul's primary meaning is
00:37:26within the body and he's talking to specifically jews and gentile christians who are trying to live
00:37:33together when they're coming from different you know different perspectives they have a different
00:37:39idea of what the law means how to interpret traditions things like that and he's saying
00:37:46don't worry too much about the things that just don't matter in the grand scheme focus on what's really
00:37:53important and focus on the relationship and give each other space to be wrong or be willing to be wrong
00:37:59yourself not being content with being wrong that's not what i mean but i mean being willing to
00:38:04recognize that you are wrong and change what you believe or what you how you're doing something
00:38:11or go ahead june sorry but if this person speaks about god and they
00:38:21they they embrace inspirational things but when you do interact with them you realize
00:38:34according to the word that they speak of god but it thoughts their heart is far from him
00:38:43right how do you deal with people like those because
00:38:48okay i had a caregiver here for two weeks and um one day she was on the phone speaking with
00:38:56someone
00:38:57and she's talking about the holy spirit and during that time she was using she was swearing
00:39:08right she was swearing and i turned and i told her i said but
00:39:14how could you be swearing and talking about the holy spirit like that and she turned and she told me
00:39:25look i'm a big woman i'm a big one leave me alone and i didn't say a word right so
00:39:34night i lay on my bed
00:39:36and i was thinking i said i said i don't want this swearing in my house i don't want it
00:39:43so the next morning when she came
00:39:47i told her i said you were swearing in my place last night and i'm asking you please don't do
00:39:56it again
00:39:57and she was like oh i thought about it and i said when i come in this morning i was
00:40:05going to apologize to you
00:40:07that's good so and this is someone
00:40:10who always singing gospel who always talking about god so how do you deal with people like those
00:40:22because you can't correct them in the height of their emotions so how do you deal with them
00:40:30yeah it sounds like he sounds like you did a good job that yeah you're right when somebody is
00:40:36excited or angry about something it's difficult to reason with them and they're not going to accept
00:40:41any kind of correction so sometimes it's better just to back off and let them do their thing and
00:40:47then maybe address it you know bring it back up again at a time where everybody's in a better mood
00:40:53so i'm gonna think i think it sounds like you did well because even my neighbor she's like that
00:40:58every word that she comes out of her mouth she's swearing and i mean my heart doesn't it doesn't feel
00:41:10good when i hear people swear i i feel too comfortable with that but i don't even know
00:41:22how to even deal with my neighbor sometimes and i don't want to look as though i condone her because
00:41:29i really don't i tell her don't come back over here i don't know i know i told my caregiver
00:41:37i don't want
00:41:39any more swearing in the house and i have to figure out a way to deal with my neighbor because
00:41:47she comes
00:41:47over here and help me i don't want to see as fear as i'm condescending to her behavior because she
00:41:56helps
00:41:56me in times of need so how do i deal with that yeah well sometimes fasting yeah yeah prayer and
00:42:06fasting
00:42:06is always helpful sometimes you just have to let people be who they are and maybe by your example you'll
00:42:13rub off on them over time you also have to weigh like when somebody's doing something that really
00:42:20irritates you i mean obviously there's nothing honorable about constant swearing especially mixing
00:42:27holy with the profane it's not a mortal sin or anything like that but it is it's not honorable either
00:42:36but sometimes you just have to let people be dishonorable with themselves and be rude or crude or
00:42:44whatever they are for the sake of the business at hand or for the sake of the relationship
00:42:50and then just be a better a good example to them maybe encourage them to have uh relationships with
00:42:58people who are who exemplify better character i'm not sure i have any good answers for you though
00:43:05a lot of times if someone's been raised in a culture and that's just part of their language
00:43:12i have to i have to admit the using slang terms that may be ill-advised for mixed company is
00:43:19something
00:43:20that i've been in construction i have a hard time with it because you if you hear something 10 you
00:43:27know 10
00:43:27hours a day five days a week and the whole communication is is this blend of different
00:43:36colorful expressions it's uh it's yeah i get it but sometimes like you said earlier your neighborhood's
00:43:43a little bit um a little bit rough in some parts of it and there's a bit of a drug
00:43:47culture and some
00:43:48of these other things and depending on right and so a lot of times like i have some friends in
00:43:55that
00:43:55culture and it's just how they don't even wreck how they probably would be sometimes even surprised
00:44:03to be corrected even in even miley they'll they'll they're probably first expression is
00:44:10what the beep are you talking about yeah what yeah because they in their head it's just a
00:44:18it's just part of their communication culture and so they're running up against you who's
00:44:24beyond that and and trying to speak you know right you know speaking righteously and different things
00:44:30to them you're the anomaly i'm assuming but especially sounds like this woman has a really big heart
00:44:37i mean there are so few people that are willing to step out outside their normal activity to
00:44:43to put effort towards someone else this person clearly has has uh some something in her spirit
00:44:53is convicting her that she should be a helper to you which is really that's a miracle i look at
00:45:01that
00:45:02because i didn't have a caregiver for like a week and she used to come over every morning
00:45:12and take out my trash i mean she would get she was all smart mouth about it but she still
00:45:21did it yes
00:45:25all right yeah let's move on to the next one do not be haughty but associate with the lowlies
00:45:32and this this goes hand in hand with the story you're just telling june that you know sometimes
00:45:39when people come from a different culture or they have different life experiences and maybe they seem
00:45:46crude or you know uneducated or disrespectful but they may not mean it that way or it's just
00:45:57part of the culture that they come from uh they have different expectations and sometimes you just
00:46:04have to make allowances for that and you don't have to stoop you don't have to adopt their culture for
00:46:11yourself but sometimes you just have to accept that they are living in a different place
00:46:18at least up here not physically i mean it's true the uh in that phrase do not be haughty the
00:46:29esv says do
00:46:30not be haughty i think the king james says not minding high things and you know the idea is not
00:46:36thinking
00:46:36that you're better than other people i mean they essentially mean the same thing and it's not it might
00:46:43sound like the way the king james reads not minding high things uh it sounds like not like thinking not
00:46:53daydreaming not thinking about high and lofty ideas uh but yeah that's not really what it's talking about
00:46:59it's like not believing that you are above other people and not acting like it and associate with the
00:47:06lowly doesn't necessarily mean criminal or immoral it just means people that you wouldn't have normally
00:47:12chosen to go associate with whether it's because they come from a different culture that seems crude
00:47:20or maybe they're poor and they just don't have nice things maybe they smell funny who knows
00:47:29yes oh yeah the context is probably has a lot to do with samaritans too because the jews would have
00:47:34thought of them as unclean and even as a believer they probably would have had been repeatedly reminded
00:47:40yeah paul might have had something like that in mind in this case since he's writing to people in
00:47:45rome trying to think of you know the differences in roman culture you'd think about the slave and the
00:47:51master again yeah the a slave in roman culture was not much more than than furniture that you know
00:48:01eventually they could graduate to a higher level and then be even a friend or set free but your rank
00:48:10and file slaves were just they were just draft animals something to be used and thrown away
00:48:18and a somebody who is wealthy i don't i can't i don't want to act like i know a whole
00:48:26lot about ancient roman
00:48:27culture i mean i've read some books things like that but you know obviously i've never been there
00:48:32and i'm not an expert on the topic but i think that it would be it would be seen as
00:48:39a shameful thing to
00:48:40have too close of a relationship with household slaves they you know you you keep them in their place
00:48:47and especially other people's household slaves so then associating with the lowly if you've got all of
00:48:55these believers all coming together to worship together you have people from all strata of
00:49:00society and when you're coming into a place like this you can't think of the guy next to you as
00:49:07being
00:49:08above you or beneath you you have to be peers you have to think of each other and put each
00:49:13other's
00:49:13needs first even if you're rich and the other person's a slave go ahead shubha i just wanted to
00:49:21comment on what you said jay when you were talking about the roman society the ancient roman society
00:49:30where they had slaves and they treated their slaves like probably worse than animals i yeah i'm not
00:49:37sure about that in terms of what the logistics or what it really looked like but i was just thinking
00:49:46that the father was so clear when he said how we need to treat slaves has been so meticulously described
00:49:52in the torah as well that it's such a stark contrast to how the romans treated their slaves
00:50:01whereas in torah it's so specifically detailed as to how they treat the hebrew slaves and even other
00:50:09slaves who may or may not be hebrews so i just thought that was a good you know reference point
00:50:15of comparison and that really is seeping into what paul is saying from what the father has said in torah
00:50:24right into his teachings about how not how to treat somebody who you consider or whose station is lower
00:50:30than yours so i just thought about that when you talked about the roman slaves so thank you well that's
00:50:35a
00:50:35good point and different cultures have very different ideas about slavery and uh thinking about the you
00:50:44know the greeks it was you were better off being a slave in rome than a slave in a greek
00:50:49city the i
00:50:50mean the greeks really treated their slaves awful i mean they were less than animals the romans on the
00:50:58other hand they had there was a way for a roman slave to become a free citizen in greek in
00:51:05greece
00:51:06there was no way to do that i mean you if you were a slave you were a slave for
00:51:09life your kids were
00:51:10going to be slaves your great grandkids were going to be slaves and there was nothing you could ever do
00:51:14about it there was a chance that your master would buy your freedom somehow but you would never have the
00:51:22same status as the free citizens in rome you were a little better off because you could buy your own
00:51:28freedom or you could be a slave for a period of time and be let let go but slavery and
00:51:34god's law
00:51:35has a purpose it's someone who is a slave is not a slave by nature they're a slave because something
00:51:43happened and the goal of slavery and god's law is to elevate the slave to back to the position of
00:51:49a
00:51:49free person now god makes a difference between a hebrew slave and a non-hebrew slave but a good
00:51:56master turns his non-hebrew slave into a hebrew and then lets him go and so the goal is always
00:52:03to
00:52:03help this person become more responsible have more resources be able to provide for himself and his
00:52:10family better in the future and never to keep the person in slavery and that was a big difference
00:52:17between those cultures or at least it's a big difference between the way that god wanted
00:52:21those cultures to work didn't always work out that way in real life unfortunately
00:52:26go ahead june when paul and barnabas i think it was in lystra when they went there and i think
00:52:38after they
00:52:39healed a man they were considered gods as hormis was one of the gods and these people had highly exalted
00:52:56them
00:52:57but paul he let them know he said no no no we don't want you all to worship us
00:53:07right whatever he did it was through the power of god so there we see that paul was not wise
00:53:19in his own sight he gave all the the glory to god he didn't have any pomp and pride
00:53:31as many of these preachers they have they move the focus from god to them so they become wise in
00:53:41their own eyes
00:53:44and god say he doesn't share his glory with anyone whatever power that is given to you was given by
00:53:54him
00:53:54and whatever you do is the power of god works in you to heal someone or to even raise someone
00:54:06from the dead
00:54:07you can't just can't do that it takes the power of god but many people they exalt themselves so much
00:54:19that they forgot where they forget where the power comes from yeah i think you're reading my notes
00:54:28i am okay how dare you okay uh never be wise in your own sight the uh i brought this
00:54:37up last week
00:54:38let me see if i can find this slide i'll just bring it up in my canva account here here
00:54:45it is
00:54:46and you know this was the the some of the rules of bible study i use for whenever i'm looking
00:54:52at
00:54:52something really controversial or something that might be emotionally charged or that i have a really
00:54:57strong feeling about i try to stick with these rules and one of the most important ones is humility
00:55:05no matter how convinced i am that i am right i have to be willing to be wrong and
00:55:12if i go into a bible study assuming that there is no way that i could be wrong
00:55:17well i'm never going to see the truth in the scriptures because i'm always going to be seeing
00:55:22myself instead of what god was actually trying to tell us and this is true when talking to people too
00:55:30if you're going to have a conversation with somebody about something that's really sensitive
00:55:35you have to be willing to be wrong and it doesn't mean that you are wrong doesn't mean that you
00:55:40have
00:55:41to accept what the other person says that's not helpful either but you do have to approach it as if
00:55:48the other person might have a point and listen make sure that you understand what the other person is
00:55:54saying because i guarantee you you're wrong about something it might not be that thing but you won't
00:56:01know unless you are willing to set your ego aside and hear what the other person has to say and
00:56:06honestly
00:56:07evaluate it so this never be wise in your own sight is about not believing that you're always right
00:56:16even when you are really really convinced that you are somebody might have an argument that you've
00:56:23never heard before or have had an experience that you haven't i don't know anybody have any other
00:56:30thoughts about that last sentence in verse 16 i thought i was wrong once
00:56:35turned out i was mistaken yep but i agree it's easy to come in hot
00:56:41to a situation and and uh start burning the village down and whatever instead of like you just said
00:56:51come in with uh with a humble attitude and a willingness to how you say receive new data
00:56:58because otherwise you'd be like caught in cognitive dissonance you know your paradigm you're just not
00:57:03you're not your whole way of looking at something and you know people get i think the political
00:57:10system is a lot like that that's why i hate it but yeah absolutely being willing to hear new
00:57:17information that you didn't previously know you know yeah and the stronger you feel about it the
00:57:23more intentional you need to be about setting your ego aside and being willing to hear what what you
00:57:29might be missing that's why it's nice to be married you get a lot of practice yeah i'm really really
00:57:36good at apologizing my you can ask my wife unprovoked huh been married for a long time then yep 27
00:57:44years
00:57:44and um and uh that you can unprovoke my wife will say that what takes is well one thing tim's
00:57:50really
00:57:50good at is apologizing he can apologize he's very specific let's be clear that i'm not apologizing for
00:57:57this thing i'm apologizing for this thing yeah i'm teasing you of course yeah no i guess i guess
00:58:03yeah yeah i can't tell you how many times and i think it's a spirit for sure i have left
00:58:09the house
00:58:10and just irritated we've had the words or something and i'd be five miles away and i would literally just
00:58:17have to pull over turn the truck around come back home and just go okay all right i can see
00:58:23where i
00:58:23might you know blah blah blah and then we'll have a great discussion sort it all out that's happened
00:58:29many times and i have to say it when oh the relational aspect of this when you do that when
00:58:36you're like not hot in your mind and associate with a lowly do not be wise being willing to to
00:58:41like you
00:58:41were saying take hear somebody's point that creates such a such an a relational bond of brother brotherly
00:58:52love because i know when someone actually changes their mind when we're having a conversation
00:58:58it then suddenly i feel like okay i really want to hear what they have to say you know it
00:59:03turns into
00:59:04this this just back and forth discussion where you just really develop an intimate understanding
00:59:11of what's going on in the heads in the head of whoever it is you're having the situation with and
00:59:17it can build a really close friendship or marriage whatever's going on there yeah good observation
00:59:24yeah go ahead i was talking to jay last night and i was telling him about brain science just how
00:59:34we're wired and we're certainly wired for connection but we're also wired for protection
00:59:43and someone had said this in a social media post that i saw and it certainly is true and it's
00:59:53that
00:59:55when normally we're feeling safe we seek connection but as soon as we feel unsafe
01:00:04we seek protection and the way that that plays out is very different and so creating a sense of safety
01:00:13for people to express ideas and thoughts to be heard is really helpful for connection and that's
01:00:22kind of what you're talking about and describing timothy so when we think about how we respond and operate i
01:00:30think i think we can see that and if we start to see that in other people it makes it
01:00:35so much easier
01:00:37to figure out how to approach other people so i think what you said is really true and valuable
01:00:43that's why you're still married yep all right let's go into verse 17 repay no one evil for evil but
01:00:52give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all all right you know where we already talked
01:00:57a
01:00:57little bit about not repaying evil for evil when we were talking about persecution earlier and blessing
01:01:03instead of cursing i think it is important to note that this doesn't mean that you need to just roll
01:01:10over and be a patsy all the time you know if somebody is being abusive to you not repaying evil
01:01:17for
01:01:17evil and blessing them instead of cursing them doesn't mean that you have to take abuse it doesn't mean that
01:01:24you have to let your family be abused paul is not saying that we can't defend ourselves or prosecute
01:01:30wrongdoers only that we shouldn't be returning one offense for another be slow to offense and quick to
01:01:38forgive and forgiveness doesn't mean that you shouldn't be wary of people who are malicious if
01:01:46somebody keeps doing wrong and even if you return good for evil if they keep trying to hurt you i
01:01:55mean
01:01:55if they are purposefully malicious then you have to do something about that you can't just let people hurt
01:02:01you just because they hate you now there's there is a time for that i mean if you are being
01:02:07persecuted for
01:02:09the name of yeshua say real persecution like the government has come to you and said you can no
01:02:15longer talk about yeshua you have to stop talking about him never mention that name again or we will
01:02:20throw you in prison you can't avoid that i mean you can't you're not gonna you're not gonna beat the
01:02:26government you by yourself at least you are not going to take on the government and win but that
01:02:33doesn't mean that you roll over and you give in and not speak the name of yeshua anymore you do
01:02:38what's
01:02:38right and you may just have to accept whatever the consequences are but on a person-to-person level
01:02:43with your next-door neighbor or with family members if there is active abuse if somebody is being
01:02:49malicious and trying to hurt you well you have to do what is whatever is necessary to stop that harm
01:02:56especially if there are other people involved if you are a parent and somebody is doing harm to your
01:03:03children well you have to stop that you have a responsibility to respond to to evil with
01:03:12something that that person is going to consider evil and sometimes that means hurting people
01:03:17and if so so be it if we go back to matthew 10 just pull this passage up
01:03:2610 i think starting in verse 16 i misspelled matthew
01:03:31all right matthew 10 and behold i send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves so be shrewd
01:03:38as
01:03:38serpents and innocent as doves but beware of men for they will hand you over to the courts and
01:03:43scourge you in their synagogues and you will even be brought before governors and kings for my sake as
01:03:48a testimony to them and to the gentiles this first part be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves
01:03:54sometimes it's translated i think as uh wise as serpents and harmless as doves i think harmless is
01:04:02is i really think the nasb has a better translation here be shrewd i think is also the wrong take
01:04:08but
01:04:09it's better than wise maybe i probably they're both the same but innocent as doves is the wrong
01:04:17idea i think it's harmless i think is a better way to put it and it's not talking about being
01:04:26like the wisest serpents part not talking about being crafty and sneaky i mean we think about
01:04:33snakes as being devious and ready to strike at any moment that's not what yeshua was getting at
01:04:39what he was saying is be cautious snakes are are not just for the most part they're not aggressive
01:04:46snakes don't really want to be around you they don't want to attack you i mean they can't eat you
01:04:50so
01:04:50why would they want to snakes want to avoid you at almost all costs and will only will only strike
01:04:57if they're cornered or they think they don't have any options uh you know obviously some snakes are
01:05:03more aggressive than others but that's getting off track it's about being aware of hazards know what
01:05:11situation you're in know who's around you know who you can say what to and in part it has to
01:05:18do with
01:05:18living in harmony with people with the world around you i mean it's one thing to live in harmony with
01:05:23your own fellowship it takes a different kind of interaction to live a harmony with the world around
01:05:28you that is hostile and you have to be careful what you say to whom it's some people's place to
01:05:35go out
01:05:35and stand on a corner or and preach the gospel you know preach fire and brimstone to strangers
01:05:42most of us it's our place to do good in the world to bring people to yeshua but not to
01:05:49be offensive
01:05:50not to go out and yell at people or you know hit people over the head being true to serpents
01:05:58is just
01:05:58a matter of being cautious know who you're speaking to and what they will accept and what they will do
01:06:05to
01:06:05you in certain circumstances just being wise with the world and what that has to do with re you know
01:06:12repay no one evil for evil is that there is a time to repay harm with harm in turn but
01:06:20it's better to
01:06:21avoid harm it's better to avoid getting in a situation where you will you may be faced with that choice
01:06:29okay hopefully i'm making sense and not just rambling
01:06:32or if i'm rambling i hope i'm still making sense despite the rambling
01:06:37my version says innocent yeah that's what nasb says too and i think innocent is okay
01:06:43it's you know it's about being inoffensive not causing offense
01:06:50all right so the second half of this give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all
01:06:57oh i'm sorry i just saw your hand up shuva go ahead and then we'll get to timothy after that
01:07:03sorry just a quick point when the when it says repay no one evil for evil but give thought to
01:07:10do what
01:07:10is honorable in the sight of all so when it says in the sight of all that does include god
01:07:20as well right
01:07:21not just men god more than a more than anybody else yeah okay thank you go ahead timothy what were
01:07:28you
01:07:28going to say just looking at this uh lexicon or this concordance here it's a derivative of uh
01:07:37g 2767 unmixed which which this word i'm guessing you could do a deep dive on the word innocent into
01:07:47the
01:07:47mixing of seed to be unmixed to be pure and then and that was part of the pour out as
01:07:54a drink offering
01:07:54and then towards the end when paul is saying i am ready to be poured out as a drink offering
01:08:00meaning
01:08:01he was what really what meaning he had been walking in this um very wise but in innocent fashion not
01:08:12not
01:08:13taking anything from anyone yeah not being devious not being double-minded that's what he was even
01:08:19telling the corinthians is i'm glad i'm not taking anything from you guys i'm glad i didn't baptize
01:08:23any of you guys because he was walking that really narrow wise and unmixed path to be unmixed as doves
01:08:32anyway that's what that derivative kind of you can go down and dive into yeah well i think that's a
01:08:39good point in it because the more trying to think of the right word devious isn't the word i'm thinking
01:08:46of but the more well i can't think of a better word right now but if you're going to uh
01:08:53be scheming
01:08:54with the world plotting and playing political games to try to avoid trouble eventually it's going to catch
01:09:03up with you and it's like borrowing against the future borrowing at interest eventually it accrues
01:09:11and it comes back in spades it's better just to be straightforward and simple don't complicate
01:09:17things be honest hold your tongue when something doesn't need to be said but you know if people ask you
01:09:27direct questions give direct answers sometimes those direct answers need to be a little nuanced to give
01:09:34to try to avoid giving offense but don't give a and i can't think of the right word
01:09:42don't give a mixed answer that is intended to mislead unless you had your answer what was that like
01:09:51hedging hedging hedging yeah kind of or get nebulous be nebulous what's your answer yeah well sometimes
01:09:59there's a cause for that you know the other half of it being cautious as serpents sometimes you do have
01:10:06to be a little bit cagey to avoid giving offense or to avoid bringing wrath on yourself but you don't
01:10:15have to be contradictory yeah yeah i can't think of the right word for what i'm trying to think of
01:10:22yeah anyways maybe duplicitous something like that just go for the five dollar word jay don't worry
01:10:30about i sometimes i can't help it yeah good all right so yeah in the other half of this do
01:10:39what is
01:10:39honorable in the sight of all is that possible is it possible to do what's honorable in the sight of
01:10:47everyone i don't think so probably not i think yeah i mean in some situations you can in i can't
01:10:59think of any circumstance in which stealing from stealing from a widow would be considered an honorable
01:11:07thing i mean even among thieves and criminals that would probably be frowned on so avoiding that
01:11:14you know that's honorable in the sight of all but from culture to culture there is a lot of variance
01:11:21it's not honorable to bow down to idols but in most cultures in the world it's the most honorable thing
01:11:29so it is important that we keep a hierarchy you know like like chuba pointed out it's most important to
01:11:36do what's honorable in god's sight and then you do what's honorable in your fellowship site and in the
01:11:43eyes of moral people who are trying to honor god what is honorable in their sight that's going to be
01:11:49more important than what's honorable in the sight of people who hate god you know some things that i say
01:11:55online people get really angry about it and they think i'm a horrible person but that's because i'm saying
01:12:03repeating what god said go ahead timothy um i i think if i kind of lean into that a little
01:12:10bit
01:12:11we might be confusing offensive with honorable um i've talked to a lot of people from a lot of different
01:12:19faiths and uh one thing that all men tend to respect is just an honest discussion they might be
01:12:28they might find some things that you believe offensive but it's clear you know it's like
01:12:33this is clearly different than what i believe it might be offensive to the system of my whatever but
01:12:39you sir are an honorable man so that when we discuss something it's clear it's present if i
01:12:48lend you a dollar i'm going to get my dollar if we make a disc if we have a covenant
01:12:53you don't
01:12:54breach the covenant and a lot of times especially in like rome and all these things you know a lot
01:12:58of
01:12:58these people had to interact with people outside the congregation and so the uh the codes of honor
01:13:09are fairly universal you will wherever you go in the world shake on something that's a thing that you
01:13:15do i mean working alongside a man and giving honest days work you know people can you know see that
01:13:20you
01:13:21may disagree with them and have a completely different belief system but you're honest and
01:13:26honorable with them and their family and they don't feel unsafe with you like paula was saying
01:13:31you know there's unsafe safe protect versus whatever there was many words she said and so but that whole
01:13:38thing so that's that's what uh that's what it seems like to me that he's trying to get at i
01:13:45think
01:13:45that's a good point i mean i was probably yeah leaning in the wrong direction a little bit there
01:13:51the king james actually translates the word is honest and there's greek dictionary gives it as
01:13:57beautiful excellent something that's pleasing to look at or that people value and it is definitely
01:14:05possible to do something that other people believe is not the morally correct thing but still respect it
01:14:13in you know the using idolatry as an example in rome the honorable thing was to honor the gods
01:14:23give your offerings honor caesar all that kind of stuff but on the other hand if you stuck to your
01:14:29principles and refuse to do any of that they might have thought you were disruptive and atheist you know
01:14:34all kinds of bad things but if you stick with your principles to the point where you are you are
01:14:39willing to
01:14:39die for it they can respect that because even if they disagree with your principles you are sticking
01:14:46with it and they respect that and that's the reason that the martyrs were such an effective evangelism
01:14:55tool that even if the people who witnessed this martyrdom completely disagreed with the reasons for
01:15:02being willing to be a martyr they couldn't help but respect that willingness this person believed in
01:15:09this so much that they're willing to die this terrible death maybe i could look into it yeah june
01:15:16mentioned that earlier when she was having an interaction with that person that doesn't have the
01:15:20same beliefs she did and she had said that to that person you know that she had certain
01:15:28uh just certain basic requirements to have to be in her home and one of them was the use of
01:15:34profanity
01:15:35and just presented that in such a way that that other person was convicted to not
01:15:40to not do that yeah good point does that mean that according to
01:15:49paul when he says let your speech be seasoned with salt so that you'll be able to answer
01:15:59anybody they ask your question you'll be able to answer them rightly because it's seasoned with salt
01:16:08yeah where is that do you remember i think it's seasoned with favor in collosions
01:16:15i think it's collosions that would have a lot to do with you know living in harmony with people
01:16:20and yeah speaking in such a way that you're not giving offense by the way that you're saying it
01:16:26and obviously paul did that sometimes too but he usually waited until he was sure that people were
01:16:32not going to receive what he had to say and yeshua did the same thing once once it was clear
01:16:37that his
01:16:38audience was not going to receive what he had to say then he was free to call them you know
01:16:42snakes and
01:16:43whatever else and there should be a purpose even for that we're all human okay thank you we are
01:16:53we're all human we all let our emotions get the best of us yeah yeah let your speech always be
01:17:01with
01:17:01grace as though seasoned with salt so that you will know how you should respond to each person
01:17:06that has a lot to do with what paul said about how he is uh you know to the greeks
01:17:11he became as a greek to
01:17:12the yeah i don't remember the whole litany but it's about speaking to people where they are
01:17:18and speaking in such a way that they'll be willing to hear what you have to say and this is
01:17:24one of the
01:17:24things that paul says in several places you know in romans when he talks about how people faith comes
01:17:31from hearing and hearing by the word of god and how will people hear if nobody is going to speak
01:17:37to
01:17:37them so how would they have faith it's when paul talks about his behaviors in these ways it's one
01:17:43of the arguments against the idea that that people cannot be convinced of faith that everybody who's
01:17:52going to believe is determined by god to believe and they really have no choices they don't have any
01:17:58interaction with that these kinds of things like colossians 4 6 what would be the point of seasoning
01:18:04your speech with grace so that you know how to respond to each person now in your relationships
01:18:10with each other obviously it's better you have better relationships if you speak to each other
01:18:14politely and with consideration but when paul was talking about to the greeks i became as a greek
01:18:21he was talking about preaching the gospel to them and when he said that faith comes from hearing and
01:18:28hearing by the word of god he was talking about preaching the gospel to people to bring them to
01:18:32faith so it is your interaction with the word of god that creates faith i mean it's a it's a
01:18:42it's not you
01:18:43on your own and it's not god acting against your will it's a cooperative venture so to speak that's
01:18:51getting way off in left field not the topic for tonight but since it was there the verse before
01:18:58colossians 4 6 kind of clinches uh what we're talking about today or interacts with it which is to
01:19:04walk with walk in wisdom towards those who are outside redeeming the time let your word always be with
01:19:10favor seasoned with salt of course salt is the word of god so that you know how to how you
01:19:16ought to answer
01:19:16each one yeah so there he's not even talking about people in your own fellowship he is
01:19:21talking about people in the world as when paul was talking to agrippa when he was giving a speech
01:19:30and when agrippa said oh you think paul was trying to convert him yeah i think he wanted to
01:19:37and the same thing when he when he uh who was it paulus on the island of crete yeah that
01:19:44was another
01:19:44person that he was trying to trying to convince why bother trying to convince people who can't be
01:19:51convinced uh so clearly paul believed that people could be convinced by reason and evidence all right
01:19:59let's get back to our topic here there is one more verse because i think we can get through it
01:20:05pretty
01:20:05quickly because we've already talked about this for the most part if possible so far as it depends on you
01:20:10live peaceably with all and we've talked about that concept a lot over the last few verses that you
01:20:17know living in harmony with other people giving other people the benefit of the depth of the doubt
01:20:22not holding yourself up above other people as if you're better and speaking to people
01:20:30in a manner that is polite and honorable in behaving around with people around you in an honorable fashion
01:20:38not doing harm to other people you can live peaceably with all the people around you almost
01:20:45but notice that paul also says if possible so far as it depends on you because it doesn't always
01:20:51depend on you circumstances are going to get in the way something bad is going to happen you're
01:20:56going to have a car accident and it won't be anybody's fault just something on the road and one
01:21:01thing leads to another somebody else's car is damaged and now you have conflict or somebody else is
01:21:07just an evil person who wants to do harm and you can't stop that you can't help it so as
01:21:13far as
01:21:13possible live peaceably with the people around you but be wary of serpents be aware that some people
01:21:20don't want to live at peace with you and be prepared to deal with that if you have to whether
01:21:25it's putting
01:21:26space between you and them protecting yourself and your family you know whatever that means it's
01:21:32going to be different in every imaginable situation probably
01:21:37you
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