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00:00But we do have big Browns news from today.
00:01Mary Kay Cabot joined Baskin and Phelps to discuss her article today on Cleveland.com
00:05where she says the inside track now belongs to Deshaun Watson.
00:08This was Mary Kay earlier today.
00:10They're looking out there and they're making their decision based on
00:13who is going to give them the best chance to win games this season.
00:18And what they are seeing right now in practice and what I actually saw
00:21on the first day of voluntary minicamp that was open to the media
00:25was I saw what looked to me like a quality starting quarterback out there in Deshaun Watson.
00:32He came back on the days that were closed to us and he had ended up earning the starting reps
00:39and he was going first based on what they had seen.
00:42And so what I've been hearing is that he emerged from that voluntary minicamp ahead of Shador Sanders.
00:49And at this point right now, he has the inside track to win the starting job.
00:54And after that, I just said, if that's going to be the case,
00:57then you might as well just go and declare him that sooner than later, as soon as possible.
01:02It's got to start happening now if they want to look like a functional offense in 2026.
01:09And we know that Munkin has said that he wants to have this decided by basically June 9th,
01:13June 9th to the 11th, somewhere around that date.
01:15But I, Daryl, the part that is just, I guess disappointing is the words I want to use here.
01:20It's disappointing to me that all we had was a week of practices and already now the narrative has flipped.
01:27And I'm not saying that Mary Kay's wrong.
01:29I think Mary Kay's dead on.
01:30And I think she's getting it from people that are telling her what's going on.
01:32I just, it is very disappointing to me that Shador felt like he never had a real shot in this.
01:37This thing was rigged like a game of three card money.
01:40It's as rigged as one of those carnival barking games you'd find at Six Flags.
01:44Chauncey Billups' poker game thinks something's funny going on here.
01:47Like, I don't love that it happened this quickly.
01:50At least humor me and make it seem like a quarterback competition instead of what this is being delivered as,
01:55which is Deshaun, after three days, all of a sudden won the job.
01:58Yeah, they've had three practices of install.
02:01Of course Deshaun's going to look better.
02:03He's done install more than Shador.
02:07Shador has yet to do an install.
02:09Yeah, yeah.
02:09He didn't get reps last year.
02:11Mm-hmm.
02:11Okay?
02:11Okay, so, and I had, I think I've said it with you guys, I've certainly said it on other shows,
02:18like, this isn't a surprise, this isn't a revelation.
02:21Deshaun is inevitably going to look like the better quarterback during the offseason program.
02:27No questions about it.
02:28Because he's been through it.
02:29Well, and we've also seen this with him before, too.
02:31I mean, geez, how many times I sat there with you in the Jacoby Brissette, Deshaun Watson offseason,
02:36where you got, you compared the two of them, and it was like,
02:38Jacoby looked like a high school player, Deshaun always looks like a practice field All-American.
02:43We knew this.
02:44I guess what I was hoping for is that Todd Munkin wouldn't fall for the banana in the tailpipe once
02:49again.
02:50Like, Todd Munkin would actually say, hey, maybe we give this one a couple weeks to figure it out.
02:53Maybe we give this a couple months to figure it out.
02:55Instead, we got three install practice days.
02:58Jerry, Judy wasn't even in attendance for the voluntary portion of this.
03:01And all of a sudden, we have a leader in the clubhouse?
03:04Well, there's actually something that hit me after listening to that clip from Mary Kay.
03:11And it goes back to Shadour's media availability.
03:17When he talked about...
03:19When he talked and Deshaun didn't.
03:20Well, that...
03:22But when he talked about learning, and, you know,
03:26it's nice to be around coaches that understand how he learns.
03:29And he knows himself how he learns, right?
03:33Because I think that that was one of the things, the narratives from last year, right?
03:39Shadour didn't learn fast enough.
03:41He didn't learn the playbook as quickly as Dylan Gabriel did, right?
03:44And that's why Dylan Gabriel was leaps and bounds ahead of him
03:48in getting those first first-team reps during OTAs.
03:50How are you going to beat a supercomputer, Daryl?
03:52Right, I know.
03:53And, boy, that supercomputer generated quite the safety against the Patriots.
03:57Boy, let me tell you, that's an all-timer.
04:01Those throws into the benches.
04:02Boy, that supercomputer was really grinding there.
04:05That RAM was burning up.
04:09So, my expectation all along was that Deshaun was going to win the competition.
04:17But I am a little surprised after three installation practices...
04:21Like this quick?
04:22This is how this happened?
04:23We have this out there.
04:25That's the part that is just...
04:26It's very disappointing to me that thought we were going to get a real look at this all.
04:29Because I know what's going to happen.
04:30Everyone's going to turn around and be like, well, Shadour obviously wasn't ready.
04:33How do you know?
04:34It was three practices that you didn't even have your number one wide receiver out there.
04:38And you're not really even doing anything of significance.
04:40Like, I just...
04:41I feel like this was a rigged contest.
04:44And I'm just upset that this feels like this is how this has gone down.
04:47It's hard not to...
04:48At least humor me.
04:49Yeah, it's hard not to feel that way and see your point of view on it.
04:54Because what's actually right for the Browns is that Shadour starts week one.
04:58That's your best chance.
05:00Yeah, not only...
05:00Not just best chance.
05:01From a contractual standpoint and how you have...
05:04Like, you've got control over him for the next few years.
05:06He's on a rookie deal.
05:08Like, you want Shadour to succeed more than you want Deshaun Watson to succeed.
05:12Well, you can get a better evaluation of him now with the supporting cast.
05:16Now that you've added Denzel Boston.
05:18You've added Casey Concepcion.
05:20The fact that you've rebuilt the entire offensive line in front of him.
05:23Like, you can get a better read on Shadour either passing or failing on his merits rather than having to
05:32pick apart and say,
05:34Well, he didn't have this and he didn't have that.
05:36And so there has to be context thrown into this thing.
05:40There is no context to be had this year.
05:43It's, can Shadour do this thing or he can't?
05:46Like, there are no excuses.
05:47Can he learn a playbook or can't he learn a playbook?
05:50Can he go out there and execute the practice game plan or not?
05:56Can he get it to the wide receivers on time where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be
06:02there or not?
06:03Like, though, because the personnel there is too, it's, they're supportive of him now.
06:11Last year, you couldn't say that.
06:12I mean, the personnel wasn't supportive of Dylan Gabriel.
06:15It wasn't supportive of Joe Flacco.
06:16It didn't give nobody a chance.
06:18No, Kenny Pitt, nobody had a chance last year.
06:20It was a nightmare.
06:22So that's, that's where I'm at with this whole thing.
06:25I think the best thing in the short and long-term interest of the Cleveland Browns is that Shadour Sanders
06:30get the opportunity to start week one.
06:31No, no, we find out whether or not this kid can or can't do it.
06:35On the flip side, the Browns are paying $46 million, the final 46 to Deshaun Watson this year.
06:41And so you, well, the money's already spent though.
06:43Like, I don't, I don't need to see any.
06:44It's a sunk cost.
06:45And I tried to figure out from, and this is, this is the hangup I have.
06:48And this is the worry I had when I wondered if this game was going to be rigged the entire
06:52time.
06:53I got worried about the idea that who stands to look the best out of the idea that Deshaun Watson
06:59is a good quarterback this year.
07:01Like, if Deshaun plays well, who stands to look the best?
07:04It's the two people that right now are responsible for the worst trade in NFL history in Andrew Barry and
07:09Jimmy Haslam.
07:09And so like, if, if Deshaun can actually look good, then they blame everything on Stefanski who's already in Atlanta.
07:16Right.
07:16And all of a sudden, hey, that wasn't the worst trade in NFL history.
07:19We all of a sudden got things cooking.
07:21This looks great.
07:22He was always, he always had the skills.
07:23Stefanski didn't know what to do with them and it was what it was.
07:26And so like, I just, I think they're reaching for that.
07:29And that was the worry I had in all of this, that that would override everything.
07:32It's not the 46 million.
07:33It's the idea that they want one crack before they go for quarterback at 2027 to maybe rewrite history a
07:39little bit more in their favor.
07:40And it's just, it's a dangerous thought to have.
07:43And I hate that it feels like they're gravitating towards that reality because I think it's going to end up
07:47in a disastrous way.
07:49Deshaun Watson can face neighborhood kids right now.
07:51I take the neighborhood kids plus six and a half.
07:53Okay.
07:53I got no confidence in his football ability.
07:55I got no confidence in him staying healthy.
07:57And the idea that the Browns do, in my opinion, Daryl, is not based off of them thinking he's awesome
08:02at football.
08:02Because they've seen him be awesome in practices before.
08:05It's based off the idea that they think he's going to save their reputation and what happened with that initial
08:10trade.
08:10Well, also, too, the thought that comes to my mind, and I'm not saying this is the reality.
08:14I want to be very clear.
08:16I am not saying this is reality.
08:17But the thought that enters my mind is, well, then my goodness, Shador must be that awful.
08:21Yeah, and that's the part that makes me so angry is that that's going to become the narrative on it,
08:25and I don't think that's fair.
08:26Right.
08:26Three install practice days isn't enough to be like, well, wait, what did he learn this offseason?
08:30What did he learn?
08:32Wait, you figured that all out?
08:33Jerry Judy wasn't even on the field.
08:34But all of a sudden, they figured out through three install days that Deshaun Watson's markedly better?
08:39And apparently, Shador can't read a playbook.
08:43Can he even throw a pass?
08:45I mean, I hate that that's going to become the narrative, because that narrative, to me, just doesn't feel fair.
08:50If the fight itself isn't fair and is rigged to begin with anyway, how do I then look at the
08:54boxer and say, well, it's on you for not doing your job?
08:57Well, the good news for Shador is he's going to play this year, because there is no world in which
09:02Deshaun Watson is starting 17 football games for the Cleveland Browns this year.
09:05I agree with you on that 100%.
09:06In three years we've seen him play, he's never made it past, what, week eight?
09:10Yeah, and to be fair to Shador here, maybe this is a good thing for him, because now he gets
09:16extra time to prepare.
09:17No, I like the spin on it, but honestly, the best thing for Shador to do is to get all
09:22the reps he possibly can and then play week one and see what happens.
09:25Again, I don't disagree.
09:26I'm just, I am trying to be as, and I'm not saying you're not being objective.
09:32I'm just saying from my standpoint, I'm just trying to be as objective and realistic about the situation as I
09:38can be.
09:38I have no desire to see Deshaun Watson at all play quarterback for the Cleveland Browns.
09:43None whatsoever.
09:44We both know where that's going.
09:45Right, and it's not going to, we know how the movie ends.
09:47It's not going to end well, right?
09:48That said, I also understand why the Browns are doing it.
09:51Just because I understand it doesn't mean I agree with it.
09:54Those are two different things.
09:56I get why they're doing what they're doing.
09:58I don't agree with it.
09:59But do you get them doing it this early?
10:02No.
10:02And the reasoning behind it, because that's the part that is losing me in this.
10:04They're installing offense.
10:05Like, that practice, we got to see one practice, okay?
10:09And I have to tell you, that was as basic of a practice as you can get.
10:13And that's not to be demeaning or to rip the coaching staff.
10:16It's just the reality of it.
10:17That's the reality.
10:18This is a new head coach.
10:20You're installing a new offense.
10:22You're tweaking your defense.
10:24Like, there are things that you're specifically working on in these practices.
10:29That's why I don't believe in completion meters this time of year and tracking passes, because
10:34I think that there's no context that comes with that, okay?
10:39Interceptions are going to get thrown when they're probably working on something.
10:42And all we're looking at is the interception instead of realizing that maybe he was supposed
10:46to throw the football there.
10:48Like, there's so much context to these practices that we don't know.
10:53But also, too, people are telling Mary Kay this, and that messaging doesn't get out without
11:01the blessing of the organization.
11:02Oh, 100%.
11:03That's why I'm freaking out right now.
11:05They obviously want that out there.
11:07Yeah.
11:07For whatever that motive is, Jonathan.
11:09And maybe that's just preparing people.
11:10Like, if we give them four months to know that Deshaun's going to be the starter, then
11:13by the time we get to week one, they'll be cool about it, maybe.
11:16Softening the ground.
11:16Maybe they'll be understanding on it, or maybe they'll at least decide that they want to
11:20root for the Steelers this year instead of the Browns.
11:22I don't know.
11:22You tell me.
11:23But, like, they will have come to some conclusion by the time September 10th kicks off or whatever
11:27it is.
11:27Yeah.
11:27I mean, maybe they're just softening the ground for this.
11:30I just think it's just an ugly look by them to do, oh, we're going to have a big quarterback
11:34competition and all this and that.
11:35And then it seems like three days in, they've already decided what they want to do.
11:38I went into this offseason fully.
11:40That's a miserable look and does not give Shador a fair shake.
11:42Yeah, I went into this offseason fully expecting Deshaun was going to win the quarterback competition
11:46because he's the veteran.
11:48He's been through these offseason programs before.
11:50He looks great in practice when there's no defense actually threatening to take him down.
11:54But you can sell it better to people like myself if two and a half months from now, you're
11:57like, we at least did more than three install practices and came to this conclusion.
12:01Okay, here's my retort to you.
12:03Get me to late July and then be like, all right, we're going forward with Deshaun for reasons
12:07X, Y, and Z.
12:08Does Todd Munkin strike you as a guy who's the least bit interested in selling anybody on
12:12anything?
12:13No, what he does strike me though, and this is where it's a shame on Andrew Barry and
12:16it's a shame on Jimmy Haslam.
12:17It's not Todd Munkin's fault that he fell in love with Deshaun Watson on the practice
12:21field.
12:21I've been there myself.
12:22You've been there yourself.
12:23Okay, we've all seen him.
12:24He's really good on the practice field.
12:26It's Andrew Barry and it's Jimmy Haslam that know better.
12:28They know he's a different player in the practices than he is in the games in a Browns
12:31uniform.
12:32And they've been there.
12:33They've seen it.
12:34And they're just letting Todd Munkin fall for it.
12:36I don't blame Munkin.
12:37I really don't.
12:38Munkin just looked and saw what everyone's seen for years with Deshaun.
12:41And the practice field up against Ayer, the man is awesome at football.
12:45Again, I've seen it with my own two eyes.
12:46Best practice quarterback I've ever seen in my life.
12:48That's not the fault by Todd Munkin.
12:50The fault is for all the people that have been here through the Deshaun Watson era to
12:54just let this just come and go.
12:55As if like, oh yeah, you're right.
12:57He is back.
12:57Yeah, it does look like Houston, Deshaun Watson.
12:59No, it doesn't.
13:01No, it doesn't.
13:02And people that think it's going to happen that way, you're dead wrong.
13:04I can't find an avenue where Deshaun Watson looks like the guy he was six years ago.
13:08It doesn't exist for me.
13:09No, and it doesn't exist for you because it doesn't exist.
13:13It's not realistic.
13:14And also, too, it's not fair.
13:16It's not fair to Deshaun Watson to expect him to look like he did with the Houston Texans
13:23after voluntarily sitting out a year, voluntarily sitting out on 11-game suspension, breaking
13:32his shoulder, and then rupturing his Achilles not once but twice.
13:37In no world is that guy going to look like the player the Browns traded for, okay?
13:43And again, this isn't Deshaun bashing.
13:45This is reality.
13:47If he does, great.
13:49Fantastic.
13:50The Browns hit the lottery.
13:52I just, I have no expectation of it.
13:54And nor should you because it's not fair to Deshaun.
13:58I mean, we can rip, we can, no, I'm just saying, we can rip Deshaun for a lot of stuff
14:01and be-
14:02The end result is, like, if the end result is me not being fair to Deshaun, I could take
14:05that.
14:05If he's going to end up being the starter, I think he'd be happy with that outcome.
14:07No, I understand, but-
14:09The guy I'm mad about right now today is Shadour.
14:11Yeah.
14:11It doesn't feel fair to Shadour to me.
14:12No, but also at the same time, I am going to try and look through a positive lens here
14:18and think, okay, well, maybe that takes a little pressure off Shadour and he can just
14:22focus on learning this new playbook and learning this new offense and hope, and here's the
14:27key.
14:27He still needs some first team reps and he's got to get all the second team reps, okay?
14:33We can't have Dylan Gabriel in on the second team reps.
14:36It's got to be all Shadour.
14:37You have to prepare Shadour Sanders to play this year in the same fashion, for whatever
14:43reason, you decided to prepare Dylan Gabriel to play last year throughout OTAs, the veteran
14:50minicamp, and the training camp.
14:51Shadour Sanders needs to be on the Dylan Gabriel program this year.
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