00:00and he says, I've seen a really good football player.
00:03I know what I've seen over the years.
00:04We're hoping to be able to tap into that.
00:07I know he's excited, and we're excited to work with him
00:09like we are with Dylan, like we are with Shador.
00:11There's always that couching there, right?
00:14And there's talk about the film he watched
00:16because there was the Gary Myers, New York Daily News,
00:19great author, we've had him on the show many times,
00:21talking about how he got into the Jackson Dart tape.
00:25Why is he watching Jackson Dart tape,
00:26but he wasn't watching any of our QBs?
00:28And I go, because he ain't telling you the truth.
00:32If you're able to, and I'm not calling the guy a liar
00:34because he's not lying in this.
00:38That's not a lie, okay?
00:42But if you're able to recall,
00:44that game was three years ago against the Cowboys.
00:46If you're able to recall right off the rip like that,
00:50okay, you've been watching tape.
00:53You're a football coach.
00:54You're an offensive mind.
00:55You've worked with quarterbacks,
00:57and you know you have to see the bad.
00:59You have to wince and see the bad
01:01to see what he's doing wrong
01:03and what you can fix
01:04if you have to tap that glass and break into him.
01:09You're watching that tape.
01:10I don't believe for a second
01:13he ain't watching much tape on any of these guys.
01:15I think that when he took this job,
01:17he looked at it and goes,
01:18this is my one chance to be a head coach in the NFL.
01:21I know the cards have been dealt.
01:23They probably ain't great cards.
01:25Let's see what we have here,
01:26and if I can roll up my sleeves.
01:28I'm willing to stake anything
01:30that he has been watching a lot of tape on all these guys.
01:33If you're watching that much about Jackson Dart
01:35and you're going,
01:35oh my gosh, I can do great things with this offensively.
01:37Great, by the way,
01:38maybe I was wrong on Jackson Dart all this time.
01:40We'll see what he does in year two.
01:42But when I go into this season
01:44and I have the head coach of the football team,
01:46eh, you know,
01:47we're not watching a lot of the bad tape.
01:48We're not seeing a lot.
01:49No, I'm sorry.
01:50I just flatly don't believe you.
01:51It is not true.
01:54You're a guy who believes in organization.
01:56You're a guy who made Freddy Kitchens look worse
01:58with how organized you were in 2019.
02:01And when you're able to recall right off the tippy top
02:03and an answer about the Dallas Cowboys game week one,
02:06listen, I know that he has only football to worry about.
02:09I know that these guys think differently
02:10and they have great memories here.
02:11If you're able to recall that from a game from week one
02:15three years ago,
02:16you've been watching the tape, sir.
02:17You've been watching the tape.
02:18Yeah, I thought the answer to the question about
02:22when he talked about watching Jackson Dart's tape
02:25and feeling like he had almost like a foot in the door
02:27in New York,
02:27and then the Browns thing kind of came to fruition.
02:30And he flat out said, you know,
02:32he made sure everything was sort of going to be
02:35the way he wanted it with the Browns.
02:37Like, he had to kind of be convinced,
02:39like, this is the right opportunity for you,
02:40even though it was his first chance to be a head coach.
02:42To me, that says,
02:44how could he not go into this thing totally prepared
02:48for what he was stepping into?
02:49And even if he didn't watch a ton of Deshaun tape at that time,
02:52how has he not, you know, two months into this thing,
02:54I know he was hiring a staff and all that,
02:56at least peeped some of that.
02:57I think more so,
02:58he just kind of has an understanding
03:00of where Deshaun's at right now,
03:01and he's kind of letting it be where it's going to be.
03:03But I agree with you, Ken.
03:05I think there's no way he doesn't have a sense
03:07of what he's getting with Deshaun at this point.
03:097-23, we've been trying to warn each other
03:11all this for months because all deep down,
03:13we all had the same feeling.
03:15I wanted to tell you guys about this.
03:16I think I've caught a lot of people
03:20warning each other
03:22that I told you this months ago,
03:24even I,
03:25when I told you I got that text
03:26after they hired Todd Munkin
03:28that he really likes Watson.
03:29Adam Schefter goes on Pat McAfee's show,
03:32ESPN,
03:33has this to say people freak out.
03:35I think that's been one of the least talked about
03:37biggest stories going into the season.
03:39The fact that Deshaun Watson
03:41could wind up being the starting quarterback
03:42for the Cleveland Browns,
03:43I think that's absolutely on the table.
03:46I think that it feels like
03:48it's moving towards that right now.
03:49Now, Todd Munkin comes in
03:51and who knows exactly what he's going to do,
03:53but they're going to take a look at everybody.
03:54Todd Munkin said at breakfast this morning
03:56that he hasn't decided,
03:57at least publicly,
03:58how the quarterback rotation will work out
04:00in OTAs.
04:01He's going to lean on people
04:02who've had experience there.
04:03Shador's had some experience.
04:05Dylan Gabriel not being there,
04:06there's a message there.
04:07The fact that he's not there, I think.
04:10That's Adam Schefter, courtesy ESPN.
04:13I think it bothers a lot of people that,
04:16I think there's some people
04:17who've been living online
04:18and been getting in arguments
04:19with Shador fans online
04:20and that's just not the real world.
04:22I think there's a lot of people
04:23who live in real world as Browns fans
04:25and they don't think very highly
04:28of Deshaun Watson.
04:30They don't think very highly
04:31of his play on the field.
04:32They don't have any trust in him whatsoever
04:34and they're ready to move on from him.
04:38Yeah.
04:39And trying to rattle out
04:40and wring out anything they possibly can
04:43to them is a waste of time.
04:45I have to admit,
04:48I don't want to see him either.
04:50Had Shador played a little bit better?
04:52Had Shador made a little bit better decisions
04:54during those games that he won?
04:56And there was games he played well in.
04:58Maybe he'd have a bigger leg up on things.
05:00But when you go into this
05:02and you again have a 60-year-old
05:04first-time head coach,
05:05he's probably going to go with the guy
05:07who has more experience
05:08or he's more apt to go with the guy
05:10who has more experience.
05:11And then when you see all this stuff,
05:13it's just coming up bad news.
05:15You see Jerry Judy.
05:16Jerry Judy was a malcontent last year.
05:18Who was his quarterbacks last year?
05:20Shador Sanders had a big bulk of the season with him.
05:23And then you see the online stuff.
05:25He's working out with Deshaun Watson.
05:26It's going to bother some people.
05:27But this is what it is.
05:29They're going to go with the guy
05:30who shows them the most talent.
05:32If it ends up being the guy
05:33who used to be an all-pro,
05:34even though that was six years ago,
05:36I don't know if this season is heading anywhere
05:38but to the 2027 draft.
05:40But that's what they're going to go with, Spencer.
05:41They have kept it very vague.
05:43I think Munkin didn't really clarify much of anything.
05:46But for me,
05:48there was a little bit of a sense
05:49that maybe he leans Shador.
05:50But at the same time,
05:53he can't think about, Ken,
05:55what you and I think
05:56or others think.
05:58I believe starting Deshaun Watson
06:00is a waste of time.
06:01I have nothing left to learn,
06:03see, understand,
06:05or know about Deshaun Watson
06:06from a football standpoint.
06:08Shador Sanders,
06:08there's actually something there
06:10where it's like,
06:10hey, we can learn about him
06:11and if he can be a quarterback for this team.
06:14But I'll say this,
06:16I don't know how to take him saying,
06:19yeah, I kind of felt like him saying
06:22he hadn't watched the tape on Deshaun,
06:23also sort of felt like,
06:24yeah, he kind of knows
06:25what he's getting with Deshaun.
06:26But how could he possibly know
06:27what he's getting with Deshaun at this point?
06:28It's been six years
06:29since he was that quarterback,
06:32two Achilles tears,
06:33a shoulder surgery,
06:35the suspension,
06:36two years basically out of football.
06:37And then he's been out of football
06:38for really hasn't played a whole season
06:41in the last six years as a whole.
06:43It's like,
06:44so to me,
06:45if he's really basing it off of recent tape
06:48and what happened at the end of last year,
06:50I get it.
06:51And that sort of makes me think Shador Sanders,
06:54but you're right,
06:54he's got to win football games
06:55and if they go out there
06:56and he looks like the best quarterback,
06:57how would he,
06:58of course he could start Deshaun.
06:59Let's get someone else here.
07:01How about Todd Munkin yesterday
07:05about quarterbacks?
07:06Here is Todd Munkin.
07:08This is about the,
07:09excuse me,
07:10about the film he has
07:11and hasn't seen.
07:13And here is Todd Munkin
07:15two days ago,
07:16two days ago or yesterday,
07:17two days ago
07:17on the film he has
07:19and hasn't seen
07:20on his quarterbacks.
07:21We have crossover tape.
07:23Have I seen Deshaun Watson play before?
07:25Of course.
07:26I saw him play against us
07:28when I was in Baltimore.
07:29Did we play the Cowboys
07:31two years ago
07:32after Cleveland opened up
07:33the season with Dallas?
07:34Yes.
07:35Is that a great film
07:36to watch Deshaun Watson on?
07:38Absolutely not.
07:39That was not a fun tape
07:41to watch.
07:41To try and look at that film
07:43and say,
07:43that's Deshaun Watson's unfair.
07:46I think you want a little bit
07:47because I don't know
07:48the system they changed to.
07:49I'm making a point here.
07:51When Ken Dorsey came in
07:52and what they were running,
07:53I don't know that.
07:54I don't know what they were
07:55asking him to do.
07:56Or the year before
07:57when the Browns came over
07:59and beat the Ravens there.
08:01I don't know that.
08:02I just know
08:03what I've seen over the years,
08:05I've seen a really good
08:06football player.
08:07And we're hoping
08:08to be able to tap into that.
08:09I know he's excited
08:10and we're excited
08:11to work with him
08:11like we are with Dylan,
08:13like we are with Shadour.
08:16So,
08:17it's not that I don't believe him,
08:18what he's saying.
08:19It's that,
08:20you know,
08:21when this gets put with the,
08:23when this gets put
08:24with the Jackson Dart stuff,
08:25right?
08:25Yeah.
08:26When this gets put with him,
08:28he was excited
08:29to see Jackson Dart,
08:31right?
08:32He talks about this tape.
08:34It's that,
08:35I look at a guy
08:35who,
08:37he was organized,
08:38I keep going back to 2019.
08:39He was organized in 2019.
08:41His head coach wasn't.
08:43He was upset.
08:44There is no doubt
08:46in my mind
08:46when he says,
08:47oh, you know what?
08:48This isn't good.
08:49This is a good tape to watch.
08:51This isn't great to see.
08:53There's absolutely
08:54no doubt in my mind
08:54he has watched that
08:55and he has watched it recently.
08:56That game against the Cowboys
08:58because you're trying to see
09:00what this guy can do.
09:02You're stuck with him
09:03no matter what.
09:04And so now you have to discover
09:06whether or not you think
09:07that this guy has any talent
09:08left in him.
09:09So now you have to see
09:10maybe what was Kevin doing wrong
09:11or maybe what was he doing wrong?
09:13One of the two things
09:14and both are possible,
09:16by the way.
09:16Kevin might have been
09:17handling them wrong.
09:18We'll find out.
09:19That is part of the reason
09:20why some people
09:20are really curious
09:21about seeing Todd Munkin
09:24with Deshaun Watson.
09:26They want to know
09:27whether this was
09:28a Kevin thing or not.
09:29It's why Jimmy Haslam
09:30called it a fresh start.
09:31Exactly right.
09:32Exactly right.
09:34So they want to know
09:35whether it was a Kevin thing
09:36or not.
09:36And guys,
09:37I don't blame you.
09:38There is,
09:39if I'm curious about anything
09:40when it comes to Deshaun Watson,
09:41that I am curious about,
09:42I have to admit.
09:43So you bring him along
09:45and you put this together.
09:46There is no doubt
09:47in my mind
09:48that he's watched
09:49the Cowboys tape,
09:50watched it,
09:51watched it many times,
09:52and watched it recently
09:53because of everything
09:54that he just said.
09:55It's tape that you want to flush.
09:57It's tape that you have to see
09:59because you are seeing a guy
10:00at his worst.
10:01And you are seeing a guy
10:02who at one point
10:03was a top five quarterback
10:04in this league
10:05at his very worst
10:07look lost in that game.
10:09Why?
10:10Why did it reach that level?
10:11When you had,
10:12this was 2024,
10:14there was,
10:15I know the offense
10:16wasn't very good.
10:17You've had a little bit
10:18of talent around you.
10:19Why didn't it go your way?
10:21I have to know.
10:23I have to know.
10:25And Todd Munkin
10:26has to do that.
10:27Yeah.
10:27That,
10:28I cannot,
10:29I cannot blame this man
10:30for this.
10:31No,
10:31I understand going back
10:33and watching
10:33to sort of get a sense
10:34of those things
10:35and seeing how he can
10:36maybe utilize him.
10:36I also think,
10:37though,
10:38I don't really know
10:38how he could possibly know
10:41how exactly to like
10:42build an offense
10:43around Deshaun
10:44right now
10:45other than based off
10:46of what we,
10:47what,
10:48what,
10:48like an old version
10:50of Deshaun
10:51that might not
10:51even exist anymore
10:52because that's the thing
10:53he keeps going back to,
10:53right,
10:54is at one point
10:55he was a top five
10:55quarterback.
10:56We believe somewhere
10:57that could still be in there.
10:58We're going to try
10:58to find that.
10:59Great.
10:59But that was also,
11:01you know,
11:012024 was even a long time ago.
11:03You know,
11:03that was,
11:04that was basically,
11:04that Cowboys game
11:05was two full seasons ago.
11:07You have a guy
11:08who ruptured his Achilles twice.
11:10One of the calling cards
11:11of Deshaun's game
11:12that actually,
11:13in theory,
11:14would play into
11:15Todd Munkin's offense
11:16with what he did
11:17with Lamar Jackson
11:17is the athleticism piece.
11:19Is that even still there?
11:20So that's where like,
11:21yeah,
11:21I understand
11:23going back
11:23and watching the old tape
11:24to get a sense of
11:25what were they doing
11:26right and wrong
11:27with Deshaun Watson
11:27at that time.
11:28But as,
11:29as we think about
11:312026
11:31and how they're going
11:33to frame this thing,
11:34who's going to start ahead
11:35to just base it
11:37solely off of
11:38well,
11:38we think Deshaun's
11:39still the more talented player.
11:40Fine.
11:41But do we even know
11:41that,
11:42do we have any semblance
11:44that you're even going
11:44to get the guy
11:45from 2024?
11:46No.
11:46Anymore?
11:47It's such a mystery
11:48with him.
11:49I have a hard time
11:50believing that he should
11:52just blindly start
11:53as the number one quarterback
11:54because,
11:55just because of what
11:56we used to know
11:57about Deshaun Watson.
11:58There's a lot of questions
11:59I've had to ask myself
12:00here over these last few months
12:02because when you bring in
12:03Todd Munkin,
12:04there is,
12:05again,
12:06I've said it over and over,
12:0760 years old,
12:08first,
12:08maybe only time head coach,
12:10all that stuff.
12:11That being pointed out,
12:12let me ask you this.
12:14And this is just a question
12:15I have to ask everybody.
12:18Let me go around the room.
12:20Could it actually be,
12:21oh gosh,
12:22I'm going to get just
12:23lambasted for this.
12:25Could it be better
12:28for Shador
12:30if Deshaun Watson
12:31starts the season?
12:32Just hear me out on this.
12:33Hold on.
12:33Hold on.
12:34Hold on.
12:35Hold on.
12:35Hold on.
12:36Guys,
12:36I think that he's going
12:38to pick Deshaun
12:38as the starter.
12:39Okay?
12:40I think he's going
12:41to do it.
12:41So let me just ask you
12:43real quick.
12:44A guy starts off the year.
12:46He's not a popular figure.
12:47Not a lot of people
12:48are going to,
12:48they're going to be curious.
12:50They're going to have
12:50a bit of a morbid curiosity
12:52to see.
12:53But you get a guy
12:54who says,
12:55okay,
12:56you got thrust
12:56into the system last year.
12:58It was tough.
12:59Now you get put in here.
13:00Maybe you need to take
13:01a step back and just see.
13:02If it goes well
13:03with Deshaun,
13:04you continue to do well
13:05with Deshaun.
13:06But if Deshaun ends up
13:07struggling,
13:08maybe it's better
13:09because everybody
13:09likes the backup.
13:10Maybe it changes
13:11a little bit.
13:12Let me just say
13:12real quick,
13:13yes,
13:14is it possible?
13:16I don't think
13:17it's better
13:18because I think
13:19you would rather
13:20have,
13:21even the staunchest
13:23of like Shador,
13:24anti-Shador people
13:25should want to learn
13:26what this guy has
13:28starting from week one
13:29and get as many games
13:30as possible with him.
13:31But I understand
13:32what you're saying
13:32where it's like
13:33everybody likes
13:33the backup quarterback best
13:34and if Deshaun struggles,
13:35you can really put
13:36that thing to bed.
13:38I just think
13:39to me,
13:40it's already
13:40put and put to bed.
13:41John,
13:42five seconds,
13:42yes or no?
13:44Yeah.
13:45Okay.
13:45Owen,
13:46five seconds,
13:46yes or no?
13:47You asked if it was better.
13:48Could it be?
13:49Could it be?
13:50No.
13:50The only way for Shador
13:51to truly shut
13:52his haters up
13:53is to come out,
13:55win a quarterback competition,
13:56be the starter
13:57on week one,
13:58be the guy that
13:59goes out
14:00and wins games
14:01for the Browns,
14:02not the guy
14:03that was the afterthought,
14:04not the guy
14:05that was the guy
14:06that,
14:07well,
14:07you got handed
14:08something halfway
14:08through the season.
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