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00:00On the River Island's guest line, I wonder if he can help talk us through this start.
00:05650 just hit our Boxer and Gross and Work Injury Attorney's text line.
00:08Mark, in two or three weeks, you're going to be begging for Niner season to start.
00:14It's not even April yet.
00:15No.
00:17Tim Kirkton, ESPN, is that what Giants fans are going to be doing in three weeks,
00:21begging for Niner season?
00:25Look, it's a really bad start, but it's only three games.
00:30Duty of baseball is things turn all the time.
00:362019 Nationals were 19-31 after 50 games and won the World Series.
00:45All sorts of strange things happen all the time.
00:49Granted, it was a bad three-game series against the Yankees,
00:52but there's no reason to panic and give up.
00:56There's no reason to give up after three games.
00:58I mean, the three games is one thing, Tim, but the one run is kind of the other.
01:02When you see an offense that is that muted, is that more of a –
01:07not a cause for a concern because it's only three games,
01:09but was that the most surprising part of it for you?
01:14Yeah.
01:14So I looked up the last team to go first two games of the season,
01:20the no-runs, four-hits, 19 strikeouts.
01:24And it has never happened before that any team in the history of baseball
01:29has gotten, in their first two games, no runs and four hits.
01:33Forget about the 19 strikeouts.
01:36That's what the Giants did in their first two games,
01:39and then scored one run in the third game.
01:43So they kind of made history with those first two games,
01:47and clearly they did not swing the bats very well.
01:51But – and I'm not making excuses here, but, you know,
01:54Max Reed is a Cy Young-caliber pitcher.
01:57Cam Schlittler, who pitched the second game, had a dominant first season,
02:03even though it was only a few starts, and was absolutely great in the postseason
02:09last year.
02:10So it wasn't like two guys – it wasn't like the fourth and fifth starters
02:14shut the Giants down.
02:16Two really good pitchers.
02:18And then Will Warren pitched.
02:19He's got a really good arm, too.
02:21So the Yankees have tremendous starting pitching,
02:25and it will be that way when they get Garrett Cole back and Rodon back.
02:31But those two guys starting out, pretty nasty stuff,
02:34and the Giants had no shot against them.
02:37Tim Kirksey in ESPN.
02:39And, Tim, I bet you get this dynamic,
02:41and it's what I think all of us are talking about and thinking about right now.
02:46Tony Vitello can't go get a hit,
02:49but because of the uniqueness of his arrival,
02:55this start already has a lot of people talking about him
02:58and what this all means and how he's handling it.
03:01What is your perspective?
03:04Yeah, that's – it's just not fair.
03:07I'm not a big believer that the manager has all that much to do
03:13with the winning and losing a game.
03:14That doesn't mean they are not a valuable piece.
03:17But you can't blame the manager that you got four hits
03:22and no runs in the first two games
03:25and one run total in the first three games.
03:28I'm not firing – I'm not a big believer in firing the hitting coach
03:32or firing the pitching coach.
03:35Players get all the credit as they deserve when they win and play well.
03:41The players deserve most of the blame when they play poorly.
03:46Having said that, Tony Vitello still has things to prove
03:51because this is a – no, this has never happened before
03:55that a college coach has come in and with no professional experience
04:00is the manager of a major league team.
04:02So sure, the scrutiny will be there no matter what,
04:05and it's just off to a bad start.
04:07What's a fair time to maybe take a look at not only this team but any team?
04:12Because I'm looking at three at San Diego, then you've got four with the Mets
04:16and three with Philly.
04:17It's a tough early season schedule for the Giants.
04:20At what point can we take a look and start to make actual judgments about a team?
04:26Well, that's one of the great debates ever.
04:31The Tigers, a couple years ago, they played in Williamsport.
04:36I was at the game, and they were under .500.
04:39You know, this is in the middle of August.
04:42They had zero chance of making the playoffs.
04:45They won the game that night, just took off and made the playoffs.
04:49So they were 100 games into the season,
04:53and we thought we had them figured out, and we didn't.
04:56So I don't think there is any formula for, all right, after X number of games,
05:02like Memorial Day, we know for sure.
05:05This is baseball.
05:06We never know for sure about anything.
05:09That is the ultimate beauty of the game.
05:12But you're right.
05:13This is a difficult start.
05:14I don't think it's a very good offensive team,
05:17and they're going to have to pick up some pace here
05:20with some really good pitching ahead.
05:23By the way, there is really good pitching wherever they go,
05:26wherever anyone goes.
05:27So it's just absurd, the stuff that we see on a daily basis in the big game.
05:33Tim, I think I'd like to hear more about why you think it's not a good
05:36offensive team.
05:40Well, I'm just not sure you're going to get the production out of the outfield
05:46that you're going to need to get.
05:48I'm not sure they are going to get enough production out of at least first base,
05:53depending on who plays there.
05:57I just look at other teams like the Yankees, who are really good,
06:02the Dodgers, who are exceptional.
06:04They just look like they have a better lineup than the Giants do,
06:08and they do.
06:09But that's not going to be solved anytime soon.
06:13You've just got to get going.
06:15You've got to get swinging.
06:16Remember how bad Rafael Devers was last year to start the year for the Red Sox,
06:22and then he was slow with the Giants.
06:24And he ended up finishing up pretty well.
06:27So good hitters need time to get their game together.
06:32And, again, fellas, in the first up until this morning,
06:36there were nine different guys that had struck out four times in a game already
06:43this year, including Aaron Judge and Cal Raleigh and Nolan Arenado,
06:49and a bunch of really good hitters.
06:51This is the hardest hitting environment we've ever seen,
06:55and the Giants have started off in a bad spot.
06:58So they've got to get some swings in, and we'll see when that starts.
07:03Maybe tonight in San Diego.
07:04Has it gotten to be too hard, Tim?
07:06Because what you're saying about hitting, I've kind of seen myself,
07:10where pitchers are throwing harder with more movement,
07:12and it seems to me like hitting has never been more difficult going back to
07:16when they lowered the mound in 68.
07:20Yeah.
07:20I did the Blue Jays against the A's over the weekend,
07:25those Friday and Saturday night game.
07:28I called the Saturday game on the radio.
07:30The Blue Jays struck out 50 A's in the first three games.
07:35That was a major league record also for the most strikeouts in the first three games of the season.
07:42The strikeout rate is ridiculous.
07:45The stuff that we see is absurd.
07:47And when a really good pitcher like Kevin Gossman that I saw Friday night
07:52and Dylan C Saturday, the guys for that kind of stuff locate,
07:57the hitters do not have much of a chance.
07:59But now it's up to the hitters to make an adjustment and say,
08:05all right, I'm having trouble hitting this guy.
08:08Maybe I need to have a slightly different approach.
08:12You know, maybe choke up with two strikes, short your swing with two strikes,
08:16something because the same approach isn't working against guys
08:21who are throwing 97 miles an hour with secondary stuff that is so, so good.
08:27Tim Kirkton, ESPN with us.
08:29Here, Willard and Timbs, 95-7 the game.
08:32Tim, let's go back to your comment about not getting the outfield production
08:36that they're going to need.
08:39Jung-Hoo Lee is about to start year three of a six-year, $113 million deal,
08:47mostly injured year one.
08:48Last year, a little bit disappointing.
08:52What do you think they have here?
08:55What are their chances of getting return on investment?
09:00Well, that's a good question.
09:01As I say all the time, the light goes on and off for players all the time,
09:08usually without explanation.
09:11And I don't think the light has gone on for him yet.
09:14But the Giants kind of have to hope it hasn't.
09:16Because last year, one of the Giants guys told me, all right, it's time for this guy to hit.
09:21And he really didn't last year.
09:24So maybe this is the year.
09:25But just when you think someone is not going to produce, he becomes a really good hitter.
09:31And just when you think guys are really good hitters, they stop producing.
09:35The degree of difficulty of the game overwhelms it sometimes.
09:41And I think Lee's going to be a good hitter someday.
09:44I'm just not sure which day that's going to be.
09:47But they're going to need some production from him.
09:50They're going to be the team they need to be.
09:52And Harrison Bader and Elliot Ramos, the other two outfielders,
09:56what do you see from them and their ability to be more productive, perhaps,
10:00than what they've been so far in their career?
10:03Yeah, Bader is a great defensive center fielder, as we know.
10:08And he's done some really good things, even in the postseason,
10:11with a power swing and everything else.
10:14But, you know, he's a bottom-of-the-order hitter, mostly.
10:19And Ramos has had some really good at-bats and some really good stretches as a major leaguer.
10:25But it's not just the outfield.
10:27They need it from every position, you know.
10:30They're going to need Willie Adamas to be great.
10:32They're going to need Matt Chapman to be great.
10:34They're going to need Patrick Bailey to be an improvement a little bit over last year.
10:38Again, when you run into pitching like they ran into in New York against the Yankees,
10:43and they're going to run into every way they go,
10:45it's going to take all nine guys, otherwise it's not going to work.
10:49And that goes for virtually every team in the major leagues.
10:54Tim, an interesting opening three games, not just for the lack of scoring,
10:59but Tony Battello never used a pinch hitter.
11:03The bench guys are still on the bench.
11:06And so I wonder in looking at that, do you see a guy that might be a little gun-shy,
11:13might not be used to the process yet coming from college to the pros,
11:18or maybe was it more circumstantial?
11:20What do you think?
11:23All right.
11:23Three games, to me, it's more circumstantial.
11:27However, you know, this is an enormous adjustment from a college baseball coach
11:32to a major league manager, and it takes some time.
11:36You know, he was in charge of everything at Tennessee, as is every college coach.
11:42And then he gets to the major leagues,
11:44and there are a lot of people would say within the organization about who should be playing,
11:51how we're going to play, what happens after the game.
11:53You know, there are dozens of people breaking the game down.
11:57Where he's not used to that from college days.
12:00But I repeat, it's three games.
12:03I'm not going to make any sort of assessment of the manager.
12:07It's just way too early.
12:08Look, they went 19-9 in spring training.
12:11They showed energy and enthusiasm, which is what he's supposed to bring.
12:16But energy and enthusiasm doesn't do you much when Cam Schlittler is dealing like that,
12:22and Max Reed, who's really good, is just carving.
12:27There's not much you can do.
12:29You can be trying everything you can, and it still doesn't work
12:32when really good pitchers locate with that ridiculously good stuff.
12:37Yeah, tough to win when you score one and impossible when you score zero.
12:41But I'm thinking about the Giants pitching, Tim,
12:43and do they have the quality of pitching to be able to survive
12:47if this team has to win games three to two?
12:52I like the top of their rotation, and Logan Webb, as we know,
12:56is one of the best pitchers in the game.
12:58But, yeah, I think they're going to have to win some three to two games,
13:01and we'll see if they're up for this.
13:05I don't see them as a playoff team.
13:07I didn't see it at the beginning of the year, I mean, in spring training,
13:11and I don't see it now.
13:12But that doesn't mean they can't change course and get hot and be good.
13:18It's just I don't see on the roster this being a playoff team.
13:22I mean, not everyone can make the playoffs,
13:24but there are openings for wild cards in the National League,
13:28but there aren't a whole lot of them.
13:30It's a very difficult National League,
13:32and when you've got the Dodgers in your division,
13:36that's a challenge into itself.
13:38The Dodgers, who do they got?
13:39But, anyway, Tim, what about this?
13:43I wonder if, in your perspective,
13:46you think a manager like Tony can succeed in 2026.
13:51You mentioned the energy.
13:53He mentioned, after the start,
13:56that maybe he came out a little bit too hot with,
14:00as he called it, fire and brimstone speeches
14:03before the season started.
14:06Can you, with your knowledge,
14:08think of managers in the past that have worked that way,
14:11and does it still work in this day and age?
14:16It certainly doesn't work the same today as it used to.
14:20And, look, I'm not a big managerial speech kind of guy.
14:27I grew up learning the game from Earl Weaver at the Orioles.
14:31He's, for me, one of the five greatest managers of all time.
14:35He almost never held a team meeting.
14:38As he once told me,
14:40what happens if I have a team meeting and we lose?
14:44What do I do then?
14:45So he had very few.
14:47And as one of the Orioles told me,
14:50Earl only holds a team meeting,
14:52but he knows Jim Palmer's pitching the next day.
14:55So I'm not going to buy that our players today,
14:59as good as they are, as talented as they are,
15:03really need someone to come in there and get them fired up.
15:06The other night,
15:07Oral Hirschheiser was on a broadcast,
15:09and somebody asked him,
15:10you know,
15:10did Dave Roberts really inspire you to go out there and pitch?
15:16And Clayton very politely said,
15:19I don't need anybody to inspire me.
15:22Once I go out there,
15:23I have all the inspiration I need.
15:26It comes from within me.
15:28And I 100% agree with that.
15:30You shouldn't need a fire and brimstone speech from the manager to get you going.
15:37I think with what you're facing on the other team,
15:4098 miles an hour,
15:42fire and brimstone isn't going to help you.
15:44And that has nothing to do with the Giants manager.
15:47That's any manager.
15:48Tim,
15:49it's too bad Oral Weaver's no longer with us because the question of what happens if I do a big
15:55speech and then we lose,
15:57he could call Tony Vitello and ask him because that's what just happened.
16:03Well,
16:03these things happen again,
16:05three games where we're,
16:07you know,
16:08like we're in the third quarter of the Warriors first game of the season.
16:11I don't think it's time to panic with the way things are going now,
16:16but I think a first win for the manager and the team would be pretty important,
16:22not to mention scoring a few runs.
16:24Yeah,
16:25that would help.
16:26Although the Warriors reference probably just brought us all another set of feelings about how things have gone this year.
16:33But anyway,
16:34Tim,
16:34great stuff as always.
16:36And thank you so much.
16:39My pleasure,
16:40fellas.
16:40Talk to you soon.
16:41Definitely.
16:42Tim Kirkton.
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