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00:00So we're going to talk about it now, but Danny Cunningham is going to be on at 9 a.m.
00:04to give us some of the skinny on this because it seems to be crazy as my computer just crashed.
00:09Oh, there it is again. So I can pull it back up here again because that was a little bit
00:12odd.
00:14Heavy on sports. Heavy.com. They have a lot of NBA stuff. It's just one of these things. Cavs Nation
00:21put it out there on social media.
00:22Social media reactions brought to you by...
00:24Jive and Jewelers, Cleveland's premier jewelry store.
00:276.26 in 35 seconds for those scoring at home.
00:30An NBA exec, this is too heavy, an NBA exec on the Cavs and Giannis.
00:38Giannis.
00:41Says it's DEFCON 5 for the Mitchell stuff if they don't go to the finals or at least the East
00:46finals.
00:47So they can put Mobley on the table and another player and that's a tough thing for the Bucs to
00:51say no to.
00:53End quote.
00:55Daryl Ryder in for the wonderful Anthony Lyman today.
00:59I think they mean DEFCON 1.
01:00Well, that was the first thing. I said, guys, I hate to be a pain, but I always thought DEFCON...
01:04I used to think DEFCON 5 and then, you know, I started working with Owen 10 years ago and Owen's
01:08like, guys, it's DEFCON 1.
01:10I was in the Air Force for 12 years.
01:12I was like, thank God somebody cleared this thing up because we've been wondering.
01:15Have you memorized the military alphabet?
01:17No, but he can give it to...
01:19It's called the phonetic alphabet, Daryl.
01:22Daryl, have some damn respect for the veteran in the room over here.
01:24Oh, bravo.
01:25Daryl looked at...
01:29Daryl looked at me like I was actually being like...
01:31We do this all the time, Daryl.
01:33All the time.
01:34Have some damn respect for the veteran in the room.
01:36My dad's a veteran, so...
01:37So, look, congratulations to you.
01:40Respect to him.
01:44DEFCON 1 is what I think they meant.
01:47If they get to the finals, what...
01:51I don't know, what constitutes an emergency for the Cavs this year?
01:55Because if they get to the finals, they get to the Eastern Conference finals, and I'm hearing
01:58about Donovan being upset.
02:00Now, he might...
02:01It's so weird because he's not really public about being that upset.
02:04Things happen...
02:06Like, when they made the trade with Darius Garland, I just assumed he was upset.
02:10Or that he was like, listen, something needs to happen, or other bad things are going to
02:14happen this summer.
02:15And then when Rich Paul said it in the interview, I basically assumed and put A and B together.
02:21Now, maybe there's tentacles to it, but whatever.
02:24There's talking that goes on behind the scenes, too.
02:27Yes.
02:27So, what constitutes an emergency for the Cavs?
02:30First or second round exit.
02:32Okay.
02:32Is that all there is?
02:34Because when they say Eastern Conference finals, again, we brought it up yesterday.
02:38Now, with the Cade Cunningham injury, this kind of mucks up everything about what you
02:43wanted to do.
02:43Because it felt like the Cavs were doing what they could to stay right there in the thick
02:48of that number four seed.
02:50Now, Detroit won last night, but they played Washington.
02:53Washington's basically running backwards at all times.
02:58What constitutes an emergency?
02:59Is it just those two rounds?
03:00Because if you do go to the Eastern Conference finals, and you lose to a team that's not named
03:06Boston, or Boston's really good.
03:09And I still have the Cavs penciled into the finals, I know.
03:12So, I'm not backing down from what I said here.
03:15Boston's really good.
03:16But if you do get, like, swept by the Celtics, I really don't know how well Donovan's going
03:22to take that.
03:23And we won't know until a move's made, because he's so quiet about all these things here.
03:27They're amidst an emergency right now, already.
03:30And that is health.
03:31They're an emergency.
03:32It's health.
03:33Well, wouldn't he understand that, though?
03:35Wouldn't Donovan understand that?
03:37You would hope so.
03:38But, like, I mean, it is, at times, it's a zero-sum business, right?
03:43It's all about winning.
03:45And he's desperately trying to get that label of not being able to get through the second
03:52round of the playoffs off his back.
03:54And I understand that.
03:56But this team has been banged up from the opening tip of the season.
04:01They just, they've never been able to get healthy.
04:04Well, going back to Max Struess, for crying out loud, even before the season.
04:07Right.
04:08Yeah.
04:08So, and they're not healthy now.
04:10Jared Allen with this tendinitis, who knows when he's coming back.
04:14They don't really have a specific timetable other than that.
04:17We know he's not going to play on this road trip.
04:19And we'll see if he can play next week at some point, or the week after that, or the
04:24week after that, right?
04:25Donovan Mitchell has to sit out with an eye injury.
04:28He had to miss some games earlier with a groin injury that popped up again.
04:32So, like, this team is, Mobley's missed time.
04:35This team just can't get healthy.
04:38Part of the reason why they traded Darius Garland is because of health.
04:41You couldn't count on him.
04:43When he's healthy, dynamic player.
04:44The problem is, he's rarely healthy.
04:46So, I mean, and James Harden last night saved him from themselves with his performance.
04:52I mean, they almost blew that last night.
04:54And he said it himself to Serena Winters after the game about how, you know, that was not
05:02the way they should be finishing off games.
05:04But for me right now, the emergency for the Cavaliers isn't whether or not they've got
05:09what it takes to get themselves to the NBA Finals.
05:12It's just, can they get healthy enough to be able to put their best foot forward in the
05:17postseason?
05:17What I'm about to say might be the constitution for the emergency here with Donovan Mitchell
05:22is that the first thing I said, John came in here before the show and asked me, are you
05:28concerned?
05:28He goes, I know that you and Lima dumped on it a couple weeks ago.
05:32Are you concerned with them not being able to close out opponents?
05:35Because a couple of weeks ago, John brought it up to us and we're like, guys, John, it's
05:39the NBA.
05:39I mean, you're up by 20.
05:41It's a game of runs.
05:42It's an easy thing to say.
05:43But more now than ever, it's been that way where I don't think a 20 point lead is safe
05:48in the first half.
05:49I don't think it's one in the NBA.
05:50I don't think a 20 point anymore because all they do is run up and down the floor, shoot
05:53threes.
05:53And that's a nice blanket to throw on it.
05:55But let me ask you this.
05:57If I'm sitting here saying, well, the first thing I said to him after that was in Donovan
06:01wasn't on the floor.
06:02Well, if I'm just so beholden to Donovan being on the floor for them to have a chance to either
06:06one be dominant against teams that they're supposed to beat.
06:08I mean, they're a 28 or 29 win team.
06:11Right.
06:11Chicago is.
06:12I know they started off better than what a lot of people thought, but they're a 28
06:15or 29 win team.
06:17If you're struggling to beat them without Donovan on the floor, Donovan sees that that sentence
06:23right there might be bothersome to him.
06:25Did you see what the Cavs looked like when LeBron wasn't on the floor?
06:29Yeah, they looked like, well, if you tell, I'm talking about when he was on the team.
06:33You're absolutely right.
06:34Because at times I think they just, I think some of his teammates just took him for granted
06:39that if he wasn't going to be on the floor that day, they just weren't going to win.
06:42They weren't going to try.
06:43They weren't going to win.
06:44And guess what?
06:44They didn't.
06:45And I don't want that to happen with Donovan.
06:47Now that pointed out, you have James Harden here.
06:51I think it's way too early because James Harden bailed him out yesterday.
06:54So I can't put it on James Harden.
06:56But I think it would be way too early in the James Harden era Cavaliers with Donovan Mitchell
07:00to say those things just yet.
07:01But as we go, I don't know if Donovan's going to have a problem with James.
07:06Would Donovan have a problem with anybody else?
07:08Because I thought Evan was good last night.
07:11We're not out of the woods with Evan.
07:12No, and I think if they don't get where they expect to go, there's a real possibility
07:18Evan's the fall guy and Kobe Altman hits the eject button again
07:24and tries and gets Giannis from Milwaukee.
07:27And look, I'm willing to sign up for that.
07:31I really am.
07:32But then that just really puts you in the pressure cooker.
07:36The thing for me with the Cavs, Ken, is the pressure and dealing with the pressure.
07:41Okay?
07:42It was, and I'm going to go back to J.B. Bickerstaff's time here.
07:46When they were coming off of, you know, the, was it 18, 19 win seasons, right?
07:52And they're just trying to get this thing on the tracks and get the program rolling.
07:57They were a feel-good story.
07:58Hey, young group of core guys, team put together by the GM.
08:03This wasn't, you know, a bunch of superstars teaming up.
08:07They were a feel-good story.
08:09Then, once they got to the playoffs, then the expectation became to win in the playoffs
08:14and the pressure cooker began.
08:16And so this year, they're in a pressure cooker after what happened last year
08:20in the second round with Indiana.
08:21I go back to LeBron 2.0.
08:24That was a pressure cooker.
08:25Yeah, it was a fun group to be around, and they won at a very high level.
08:29Obviously, won the NBA championship, four straight NBA finals appearances.
08:33But those were championship-robust teams.
08:36I mean, that was a pressure cooker that those players, it was the business of winning.
08:41And I feel like this particular team right now, it's not so much about the vibes in the
08:47locker room, even though that's important.
08:48It's the pressure cooker of the business of winning right now that they're dealing with.
08:52It is absolutely.
08:52When you made the move for Donovan, it starts that process, obviously.
08:56When you made the move for James Harden, when you traded Darius Garland for James Harden,
08:59who was one of your core four pieces, that right there takes it to a different level.
09:04And then when you're bringing up the one guy, or when the article is bringing up the one guy
09:09that would change this, or would help change this, Giannis would be the perfect guy to
09:13get with pressure.
09:14Right.
09:15Because Giannis has won a championship.
09:16He's dealt with that pressure.
09:17He's been to the finals before.
09:18So he would be the perfect guy to go out and get.
09:20Now, if the Bucs are watching this close, they're hoping you lose in the second round.
09:24Because it's just going to up the price to be able to go out and get Giannis Antetokounmpo.
09:27And they're going to have to get a third team involved, probably, to give the Bucs the draft picks
09:31that they need in this trade as well.
09:33You're going to need a partner to facilitate that move.
09:36So it's going to make you more desperate.
09:37I think that a lot of people, and I think that this is what plays into the way that a
09:41lot of fans feel about this team, is that I think we all have a problem dealing with
09:45that pressure.
09:46We went from this as a team that had, I mean, they had the chains in the locker room and
09:51the player of the game stuff and things like that.
09:53Like, this is serious now.
09:54This is really serious stuff.
09:56It's the business of winning, Ken.
09:57They were having fun before.
09:59They were happy-go-lucky.
10:00And it was easy when teams, when you weren't that serious and teams didn't take you that
10:04seriously, and Donovan just isn't going to play with that anymore.
10:07No.
10:08And when you bring in James Harden, that takes it up another level.
10:11And now, I do think there may come a time where I do think that this is at least an
10:17Eastern Conference Finals team.
10:18And if you lose to Boston in five, six games, and this is easy to say right now, we'll see
10:23how the series plays out.
10:24You lose to Boston in six games or seven games, five games might be tough, six games, seven
10:28games, I'd be saying, hey, let's not lose our minds here.
10:32Let's not lose our minds here.
10:33But if you end up losing and losing bad to Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals, or you
10:39were to lose, God forbid, somewhere earlier than that, you had Donovan behind the scenes.
10:43He's not, again, he's not an outwardly crazy guy in saying these things in front of people.
10:47But it's like, no, we got to get rid of the diapers.
10:50We got to get rid of the bottles.
10:51It's time to get another grown man in here.
10:53And that's where I think that he might be sitting on.
10:55216-474-0092.
10:56I want to get some of the people on this.
10:59Also, John Fanica to join us today, reminding you, that Cavaliers conversation brought to
11:03you by the fine folks at Surfside Hard Ice Tea, who asked you to please enjoy your hard
11:08iced tea from Surfside responsibly.
11:11But Darrell, you can already see it on the phones.
11:14The, it's getting time to either you-know-what or get off the pot for a lot of fans with
11:21Evan.
11:21It's been five years, and I can go, guys, he's only 24.
11:25And the minute I say that, people go, yeah, so what?
11:28What's Wemby's age?
11:29Was defensive player of the year last year.
11:31Well, you know, he's defensive player.
11:32And they go, yeah, so what?
11:33What's Chad Holmgren doing?
11:34I mean, like, they do that all the time.
11:36I met with that every time.
11:37So I know what the argument against Evan Mobley is going to be.
11:41I want to hold on to Evan Mobley.
11:42I've been an Evan Mobley guy.
11:44But I got to tell you, it has been frustrating because any time that he goes out there and
11:47sucks up the room, and up until last night, he had been sucking up the room plenty over
11:50the last couple of weeks.
11:51But any time he goes out there and he's struggling, you start to get, when's the unicorn going
11:57to show up?
11:58Well, that talk has ended.
11:59So now, you can see it coming.
12:03Anything that ends up being a struggle.
12:05Because if you have Jared Allen out for any modicum of time, that's going to put more
12:08pressure on Evan.
12:09And then we're just going to look at it and go, can you or can you not handle it?
12:12If you can't handle it, and I think a lot of Cavs fans don't think he can right now,
12:16then they immediately want to go, you guys want to go all in?
12:19We're going to continue to go all in.
12:21Go give a call to Milwaukee.
12:23Thanks, but you got to go.
12:25Bring him in.
12:26He's won a championship.
12:26We got to do what we can before this thing goes to hell.
12:29Another layer to this.
12:31Who's the controlling governor of the Milwaukee Bucks right now?
12:33Jimmy Haslam.
12:35Well, Jimmy Haslam could do the funniest thing.
12:39Might not be able to help the Browns win anything, but he could sure help the Cavs.
12:43Football team might be on the mat right now, but let me help the basketball team here.
12:46Everybody's going to be happy in the end, maybe.
12:48216-474-0092.
12:50Let me ask Eric in Euclid.
12:51Hello, Eric.
12:53Morning, Ken.
12:55Early in the year, you had brought up the idea about sacrificing some wins for the development
13:00of Evan.
13:01So, with Defton 1 in mind, and his lack of development, do you think that that is where
13:07we're at right now?
13:08Just because he's not really the unicorn that we want him to be.
13:11I remember saying that.
13:13Boy, you listen, don't you?
13:14Damn, he's right about that.
13:15I'm like, hey, if we don't have the same type of record, but Evan becomes this type of player.
13:21So, you're asking, are we at that with his maturation process right now, Eric?
13:28Yeah, like, without the first or second round exit already being a reality, are we already
13:33at that point where it's like, this trade needs to happen because he's not that unicorn.
13:38And I wish he was, and I wanted to give him that chance, but it's pretty clear he can't
13:43dribble like Giannis.
13:44He's barely making shots.
13:46His postgame is, like, no better than it's been, so defensively you get everything, but
13:52there's no unicorn there, and we do need to kind of push it in, I think, for this to happen.
13:58You, me, and Daryl all know the truth, right?
14:00That if they were to lose in the first or second round, people are going to be unhinged.
14:05That's a given.
14:06Evan, but, you know, if they go against Boston up in the Eastern Conference Finals, say things
14:10stay where they are, and they play Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals, and he shrinks
14:14and doesn't look as good, and you lose in four or five games, it becomes like a gentleman
14:18sweep or something.
14:19Like, hey, if they lose in six or seven games, I might make a strong argument for Evan.
14:24It depends on how he plays.
14:25But you know what's going to happen.
14:26They ain't going to blame Donovan, and they ain't going to blame James Harden.
14:28They're going to blame Evan Mobley.
14:31So, you know how this is going to work, Eric.
14:33I think I just see it right now is what I'm saying, but I was curious, given, like, what
14:38you had said earlier in the year, like, do you think we've already reached that point
14:41now with him?
14:42I got to tell you, I think that a lot of people agreed with me at that time, and I'm
14:46glad
14:46you remembered it, because it's a great thing to bring up, Eric, and thank you very much
14:49for the call.
14:50I think a lot of people would say, well, Kenny, I think he's failed to take that next step
14:54as a player.
14:55Well, it's interesting.
14:57We had Brad Doherty on.
14:59You were out.
15:00I was in with Tone, and I asked Brad about Evan.
15:04Was that the day I was playing hide-and-seek out in Huron County?
15:06It might have been.
15:07It was.
15:08Okay, thank you.
15:09That's right.
15:09I was looking forward to that interview, too.
15:11So I wanted to ask about NASCAR, damn it, and Michael Jordan.
15:14Go ahead.
15:15And I asked him about Evan, and, you know, my expectation that he was going to be a 20-plus
15:22point-per-guy double-double machine every night, and, you know, Brad made a pretty good point
15:30that, you know, everyone's looking for him to take his game to the next level, but his
15:34game already is at the next level, and yes, there's always room for additional development
15:40in there, but, you know, he, when he is the focus, he steps up.
15:50Like, last night, he stepped up for the Cavaliers.
15:52I think what's hurting Evan's development, and I also asked Brad about this, and he did,
15:59obviously Brad played the game.
16:00He's one of my favorite Cavs of all time, but he disagreed with me.
16:03I think one of the problems is they got Evan spending so much damn time practicing these
16:08three-point shots instead of, like Eric's talking about, working on the postgame, working on
16:13the intricacies within his game, because he's got to practice shooting these three-pointers.
16:18I don't want seven-footers shooting three-pointers in the NBA.
16:21But you have other guys who are able to do it, and they see a guy who has all these
16:25tools,
16:26and they know that he can stretch out a defense.
16:28So if he's capable, I do not blame them for trying to work on three-point shots with him
16:32all throughout his career.
16:34You know, Jared Allen is not that guy, but what we have seen this year is that in these
16:39moments, Jared has been able to rise up to the occasion more than Evan has, and he's
16:44proven to be a hell of a hand with how this team is.
16:46And now that you have James, it's proven that Jared is even more important, which that's
16:50a totally different can of worms, considering he's injured right now.
16:54A couple weeks ago, they lost the game.
16:55Evan Mobley chucking a three, a desperation three at the buzzer.
16:59It's like, well, that's not what I want to see trying to win a game is Evan Mobley.
17:02Evan Mobley tossing up a three?
17:05That's not a high-percentage play.
17:07I don't disagree.
17:09We could be chasing something that wasn't there, especially because now the time—you
17:13mentioned this yesterday—the timelines are all off now, because you have a guy that's
17:16a veteran, you have another guy that's definitely a veteran, and you're dealing with Evan
17:19Mobley, and we're still talking about him basically being a toddler, right?
17:23The timelines are off.
17:25So I have to acquiesce to you, you're right.
17:28But as things were, it was like, hey, they've got to work on the three.
17:31He's got to be that type of player where you have to come out and guard him so he can
17:35open
17:35up opportunities and lanes for everybody else.
17:38He hasn't been that guy.
17:39And I don't know if he's got the chance to be that guy.
17:41I don't know if he's had the chance to take a breath.
17:43Like, I could see Evan Mobley at 27, 28 years old with the Milwaukee Bucks in the postseason
17:48making runs.
17:48100%.
17:48But damn it, he's not that guy right now, and we need someone closer to that guy.
17:56So I have hope for him, but it's fading because I just don't think there's a realistic part
18:03where we're going to get that guy.
18:05I'd just be really surprised.
18:06I hope for him, but I don't think we're going to get that guy by the time we play, hopefully,
18:10Boston in the Eastern Conference.
18:11You don't have the luxury of patience right now.
18:14Whether it's this year, next year, the following season, because of Donovan Mitchell.
18:19And that's a great problem to have when you have a great player that's pushing your franchise
18:24to reach the ultimate mountaintop.
18:27But at the same time, the moment Kobe Altman made that trade for Donovan Mitchell, and he
18:32gave all those first-round draft picks, and he said at the time, hey, I know this accelerated
18:36the timeline a little faster than we had planned, but when a trade opportunity like that comes
18:40along, you've got to pounce on it.
18:42And I do think that if Donovan wasn't here, if they never made that trade, we're having
18:51a completely different conversation about Evan Moore.
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