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00:00On today's show, I do not call Karen mum, I never will, and I will throw a party the day
00:08she dies.
00:11It's a woman that gave birth to you?
00:13Yeah.
00:16It all came out because of a neighbour.
00:19A neighbour filmed it all, all the abuse and that, and it went straight to social services.
00:24And that's when she got done and censorite her mum's, which wasn't long enough.
00:30She's dead to me, and like I said, I'll throw a party if she drops dead on your stage.
00:38Your dad, when drunk, ended up kissing his future daughter, though.
00:43She didn't even say no.
00:45She didn't even push him away or say stop or nothing.
00:48Come on!
00:48She's just nearly wrecking her mind as a marriage, man.
00:50I don't care.
00:51No, it was both of them.
00:52No, it wasn't because it wasn't a dad who planted her lips on Jackie, right?
00:56It takes two.
00:57It's not like that when...
00:58It takes two.
00:59We did take two.
00:59What do you mean?
00:59When I went off.
01:04APPLAUSE
01:19Thank you very much, Janine.
01:20Good morning.
01:21It was never a big, big welcome to the show.
01:22My first guest today, Natalie, hates her mother, Karen, and says she will celebrate the day her mother dies.
01:30This morning, Natalie comes face to face with her mum for the very first time in seven years for one
01:34final confrontation before we meet her.
01:36Let's bear in mind that her mother, Karen, served 18 months in prison, 18 months in prison for child neglect.
01:43Bear that in mind. Natalie's really brave. She's here on the show. Give her a round of applause.
01:49You're all right, darling.
01:50Thank you. You're all right.
01:53Um, I read so much, I have to say, and I try always to be as balanced as I can.
02:01Read this story, and it's the sort of story that makes my blood boil.
02:08I do not call Karen mum. I never will.
02:12And I will throw a party the day she dies.
02:16It's a woman that gave birth to you.
02:18Yeah.
02:19Tell us why you have such strong opinions. I understand it, but if you tell these people, if you go
02:25back to your childhood, it's absolutely outrageous.
02:28Well, I had to ride a knife in my bedroom to pick locks, because getting locked in bedrooms and that.
02:35Without food?
02:36Without food and that.
02:38A mattress and a bucket.
02:39Aged how old?
02:41About three, four.
02:44And, um...
02:45Was she violent to you?
02:46She was violent.
02:47We had a coal fire, and she used to put the poker inside the fire, red hot, and then pull
02:55it out and just hit me with it and everything.
03:05She'll have your say in a minute.
03:06Be quiet. I'm talking to your daughter.
03:09I mean, you know, people watch something like that, hear something like that, and they go, oh, right?
03:15She hit you with a red hot poker.
03:16Yeah.
03:17She was violent.
03:18She neglected you.
03:20Yeah.
03:20Was she sent to prison?
03:22I mean, we said 18 months for child neglect.
03:25Is that why you were taken into care?
03:27How did it all come out?
03:28It all come out because of a neighbour.
03:31Neighbour filmed it all, all the abuse and that, and it went straight to social services, and that's when she
03:36got done and sent to 18 months, which wasn't long enough.
03:39What was that like being taken away from her and being put somewhere else for, I think, five years?
03:46It must have been...
03:47At that age, I didn't know what was happening, but when I grew up, I was waiting until I turned
03:5316 to get out of her life.
03:54What I find almost incomprehensible, I'm sure the audience would agree, was that having served 18 months for child neglect
03:59at the age of nine,
04:00the authorities decided to give this poor, innocent child back to that, and it continued.
04:06It did continue when I moved back in.
04:08Just get rid of the...
04:09Shut the f***, you stupid b***h, that!
04:12It's going very well to start with this morning.
04:14Can you just lose that picture, Matt?
04:16Listen, Karen, be quiet, you'll have your say later.
04:19Carry on.
04:19You went back to live with her.
04:21Yeah, I went back to live with her.
04:23Be quiet!
04:24And then...
04:24And then when sympathy again, look, running out.
04:28Oh, there we go.
04:29We're going, aren't we?
04:31Good riddance to her.
04:38Sympathy, that is.
04:39You suffer from spina bifida, which may have been caused by...
04:41Yeah, by her, because when she was carrying me inside her, she threw herself downstairs to try and get rid
04:47of me.
04:50Just bear in mind that.
04:51You can all sit there and go, oh my God, oh my God, does this go on?
04:54This is an absolute fact.
04:55This woman has beaten you, abused you, neglected you, attacked you, stolen money from you.
05:00Yeah, 10 grand.
05:01Physically harmed her.
05:02And your point is that you still, to this day, you're 27 years of age, and I have to say,
05:06you haven't seen this woman for seven years.
05:08I respect you, and I mean this.
05:09It's very easy for people to come out here and be massively confident.
05:12I didn't, when I read it this morning, I thought to myself, why on earth are you here?
05:17What on earth...
05:17To tell her to get out my life, because she just keeps trying to get in touch with me.
05:22You don't want her to do that.
05:23And I don't want her in my life.
05:24She's dead to me.
05:25It's interesting, when Natalie was talking to the people from the show, she said, I'll come and I'll do it.
05:29But I never, ever, ever...
05:31There is nothing on God's earth that can make me want to be involved in her life again.
05:36She's dead to me.
05:37And like I said, I'll throw a pot if she dropped dead on your stage.
05:41I would throw out her.
05:42You tried to run her out of town, didn't you?
05:44I did, yeah.
05:44Tell them what you did.
05:45I quite like this.
05:46I had social services forms at the age of 21.
05:49When I turned 21, I had my documents and all the abuse.
05:52Which explained to you everything that had happened.
05:53Yeah, all the abuse.
05:55Newspaper clipping in there.
05:56I photocopied it.
05:57Pointed round the town I lived.
05:59And it drove her out the town where she...
06:01Because she was living there at the time.
06:02How did you ever get over what you went through?
06:04I don't.
06:05Still plays in my head, generally.
06:08I'm having nightmares and everything over it.
06:10Is it your moment today?
06:11Yeah, my moment today.
06:13To get her out my life for good.
06:15Good.
06:22I don't quite know.
06:23I mean, people come on this show and they go, you know, she's done this, he's done that.
06:25But they're, you know, still my parent and I want a second chance.
06:28You don't, I...
06:28No.
06:30There ain't no second chance for that.
06:31I don't know where she's gone.
06:32I'm hearing in my ear that she's hidden in the toilet somewhere.
06:34Yeah, she ran into the toilets.
06:37Sympathy.
06:38She's gone to the toilet.
06:39I'm going to go to a break.
06:41And then, you know what?
06:41I might go and find her in the toilet.
06:43I'm back after this.
06:43Don't go anywhere.
06:47If you want to tell me anything, come out of the toilet now or we're done.
06:53You describe her as a liar and a slag who offers sex to anyone who wants it.
06:58Better be enough.
07:06Have you got a jealous partner?
07:08Are you the one who cannot control your jealousy?
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07:21Call my team today.
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07:32That address is itv.com.
07:34It's forward slash Jeremy Kyle.
07:42Thank you very much, Lee.
07:43Welcome back.
07:44Before the break, talking to a very brave girl, Natalie, here today to say, you know,
07:47my mother abused me, neglected me, attacked me, went to prison for 18 months.
07:50She was no sort of mother.
07:51I'm 27.
07:52I still have nightmares.
07:53She's been the worst mother in the world.
07:54I would not, if you offered me all the money in the world, have anything to do with it ever
07:58again.
07:58And I've come here today to say, we're done.
08:01She keeps trying to get back in your life.
08:03What, Gilt?
08:03Trying to mend and say sorry.
08:05So she's come here to say sorry and she's done one.
08:06You stay.
08:07I'm going to, where is she?
08:08And if anyone thinks I'm the bitch, there you go.
08:10I don't think anybody.
08:15If you think I'm a bitch, wait till you see my mum.
08:17Right, okay.
08:18That's this round again.
08:26Is she here?
08:27Yeah.
08:30What, Gilt, what?
08:31Open the door, you want to have your say.
08:32Open the door and come out and face me.
08:34Why should I?
08:36Why should I when she just said she'll dance on my grave?
08:3916 years ago I've had this and the I'm still getting now, Jeremy.
08:44Oh, the grief you're getting.
08:46What about the fact that your kid at 27 still has nightmares because you went to prison for neglecting her?
08:50Don't you think?
08:51The nightmare she has is 10 to the rock she's got.
08:54Yeah, I'm sure.
08:54Don't you think the leash you should do is get out here and be on your knees apologizing,
08:57being the worst mother I think I've ever seen.
09:00Well, then just hide, love, because she wants nothing to do with you.
09:02She wants me to do with her.
09:03Listen, do what you want, Karen.
09:05But at the end of the day, you apparently are keen to build a relationship with her.
09:08You're not going to do it behind the door.
09:10Should I tell you what I know?
09:12Should I tell you what I know?
09:13People like you love it, don't you?
09:15But she wants me dead.
09:15You want her and me to go, oh, come on, Karen, please come out.
09:18No, I don't.
09:19I don't want that at all, Jeremy.
09:20Well, if you're any sort of person at all, you get out here and try and put your side,
09:24because I am not chasing.
09:25You've got it?
09:29If you want to tell me anything, come out the toilet now or we're done.
09:35Oh.
09:36Oh, yeah.
09:37Neglect.
09:38Neglect.
09:39Prison.
09:40Prison.
09:40Hot pokers.
09:41Stealing.
09:43What, you didn't go to prison for...
09:45Oh, did go to prison.
09:46I did go to prison for neglect.
09:48That's appalling.
09:4916 years ago.
09:50Oh, so you're over it.
09:50What about her?
09:51Then why are you running off?
09:5316 years ago.
09:53What are you running off for?
09:54She told me to drop dead.
09:56She done some all day.
09:57I don't surprise her.
09:58No, you probably wouldn't.
09:59I think she's probably absolutely right.
10:01Why don't you go and talk to her?
10:03Because she won't listen.
10:04Well, why don't you try and make her...
10:05Why don't you try and talk to her?
10:06You.
10:07Why don't you try and talk to her?
10:09You go and talk to her.
10:10Well, it's your job to listen to people.
10:12Go and talk...
10:13It's supposed to be the Jeremy Cole show.
10:15That's why I'm standing here.
10:16This is why you're standing here,
10:18but you don't listen to both sides, Jeremy.
10:20And what's your side?
10:20You went to prison for neglect?
10:22Yes.
10:2316 years ago, I went to prison for neglect.
10:26You ever say sorry?
10:26I have said sorry many a times.
10:28She hasn't accepted it?
10:29She hasn't accepted it.
10:31I wanted a relationship back with my daughter.
10:34It's been going on for 16 years, Jeremy.
10:38Why don't you go and see if it's possible, then,
10:39instead of shouting at me?
10:40Because she won't listen.
10:42How do you know that?
10:43She came here today.
10:44Go and talk to her.
10:46Right.
10:46I'll go and talk to her.
10:47That's what I say.
10:48Go on, then.
10:48I'll go and talk to her.
10:51But one thing, I'm not a piece of...
10:54for nobody to walk on me.
10:58No, you're a mother of the year
11:00who managed to go to prison for neglect, aren't you?
11:02I'm not saying I'm a perfect mother.
11:04Just get on stage and talk to your daughter.
11:07I haven't said I've not been a perfect mother.
11:09Whatever, I can't believe she's given you the chance.
11:11Get out there.
11:11Go on, go and speak to yourself.
11:13Go on.
11:13Go ahead.
11:15You can move the chair.
11:16I don't want to buy me.
11:19Tell you what.
11:21No bed.
11:21I've come here today to tell you to get out my life and I mean it.
11:25You mean it, Natalie.
11:27You say you mean it.
11:28Right.
11:29I did wrong.
11:30I've apologised to you.
11:32You're still my daughter.
11:34I'm your mother.
11:35I am.
11:35I ain't no daughter of yours.
11:37Yes, you are.
11:38You're dead to me.
11:39You're flesh and blood for Christ's sake.
11:40You're dead to me.
11:42What is it?
11:42The drugs are over talking to you.
11:44Oh, bringing the drugs into it again.
11:46Well, yeah.
11:47By your own admission, you got into, you went off the rails.
11:50You started to take drugs.
11:51Yeah, I went off the rails.
11:52Who would be surprised at the upbringing?
11:54Six years ago, I went off the rails.
11:56And how long have you been clean of drugs?
11:57I was through that stupid.
11:59Oh.
11:59How long have you been clear of drugs?
12:01A few years now.
12:02Off the cocaine.
12:03Fantastic.
12:04I admit.
12:04I can't wait.
12:07What I find extraordinary is that you're sat there, right, saying,
12:12with flesh and blood, I'm your mother.
12:14You abused, neglected, and were violent towards an innocent young child
12:20who was pushed from pillar to post.
12:22Even when she came back to you after you come out of prison for neglect,
12:25it happened again.
12:26And you expect to just go, it was 16 years ago.
12:30I'm sorry.
12:31She is still affected by it.
12:33You should be on your knees begging forgiveness.
12:35Not saying, oh, I'm over it.
12:37Why are you?
12:38Excuse me, Jeremy.
12:40No, excuse me, Jeremy.
12:43Really?
12:43It's happened again.
12:44When did it happen again then, Natalie?
12:47When I moved back in with you, you threw a saucepan of peas
12:50as the social worker walked in and blamed me.
12:54I thought you threw a chip pan of hot fatter.
12:57Yeah.
12:57What, you got a track record, lover?
12:59Days did all.
13:00When you was carrying me inside you.
13:02How did social services, here's something for you, Karen.
13:04How did social services have in their consciousness
13:07the decision to make, which was,
13:09there's a woman who's neglected her kids
13:11and went to prison for 18 months
13:12and we're giving the child back to her.
13:14Why didn't they banish you from ever,
13:15for ever bringing up a child?
13:17Why didn't they let you have that kid back?
13:18Because they knew it wasn't.
13:20They knew it wasn't.
13:21It was neglect, yes.
13:23I must admit, I'm putting my hands up.
13:25I'm not the best mother in the world.
13:27I'm not saying that.
13:28And I don't want sympathy or nothing.
13:30I don't need sympathy or nothing.
13:31And I'm not doing this for sympathy.
13:33When I have my operation on my back,
13:35what did you say to my dad?
13:38I hope she dies on that table.
13:41Did I?
13:42Yeah.
13:43I think about it.
13:44Take a line to take the test then.
13:46You said if it's in your head
13:47and you want to do something about it,
13:49why don't you do everything in your power
13:50to apologise and beg forgiveness
13:52instead of running off and making excuses for your...
13:55I've apologised.
13:55I don't think you could...
13:57the rest of your life apologising
13:58and nobody will be able to forgive you.
14:00No, no.
14:00It's...
14:01People...
14:03I'm a monster, right?
14:04I'm a monster.
14:05You said it.
14:05Yeah.
14:06Save other people saying it.
14:08I'm still going...
14:09Are you surprised?
14:09No, I'm not surprised.
14:10Because isn't there an unwritten rule
14:11that however difficult life is,
14:13the most important thing you do,
14:15you're supposed to live off and cherish...
14:16You should love your kids.
14:16And cherish your kids.
14:18You should love and cherish your kids.
14:20And if I could stand back for it...
14:22Why didn't you put your hands in the air
14:24and ask for help?
14:26Because I thought I could do it on my own.
14:28When I came out of prison,
14:30I went through court.
14:32Natalie came home.
14:34Natalie lived with me for a while.
14:37Did you abuse her?
14:37No, I did not.
14:38Did you become a super mum overnight
14:40or was it still difficult?
14:41It was very difficult.
14:43I had social workers taking me
14:46to do a parental...
14:48to do the meals,
14:50to look after children.
14:52I had it all recorded.
14:53They gave you the child back
14:54and then taught you how to be a parent.
14:56They did all the recordings
14:57and everything
14:59before they sent my daughter back to me.
15:02Natalie wanted to follow.
15:03And why is she saying
15:03you were still neglectful
15:04when she came back at the age of nine?
15:06Because that's what you're saying.
15:07She said that you were no better.
15:08Well, she was more aware
15:10but you were no better at nine
15:11than you'd been at four.
15:14It's loud crap, Natalie.
15:15And you know deep down it is.
15:17So all those allegations
15:18that were made
15:19No, you don't know the truth.
15:20By Natalie.
15:21The hot poker,
15:22the being locked in a room.
15:24Natalie has never, ever
15:26been hit
15:27with an hot poker.
15:28Did you lock her in a room
15:29with a bucket and a mattress?
15:31I thought you did.
15:32No.
15:33I thought you did.
15:48This is her moment, mate.
15:4927 years of suffering
15:51because of what you did.
15:52She won't let you full square.
15:53And it's like you
15:55slagging me off
15:56to my mates
15:57six months ago.
15:58Don't lie.
15:59I've got proof.
16:01You're better than her.
16:02Proofies.
16:02Yeah, I've got proof.
16:03Proofies.
16:04Show me the proof.
16:05I've got proof.
16:06Why should I show you?
16:07Why should she?
16:09Why should she do anything?
16:10Why should she do anything for you?
16:11Who do you think people
16:12are going to believe?
16:13My mate up there.
16:14My mate up there
16:15has seen the proof.
16:16Excuse me.
16:16What about the reason
16:17that she ended up
16:18going on drugs
16:19because of what you did to her?
16:21Oi.
16:21She's calling me
16:23about my mother, Jeremy.
16:24You're the worst mother
16:25I've ever met.
16:26Yeah, she's right.
16:27Look into the mirror yourself.
16:33Look into the mirror yourself, Natalie.
16:35Oh, now you're
16:36passing judgment, are you?
16:38You really are a piece of work, aren't you?
16:41Shall I tell you why she came?
16:42She came because
16:43she wanted her moment
16:43and the problems
16:44that she's had in her life
16:45which, by the way,
16:46she's fought courageously,
16:47be it her illness
16:48or her drug addiction.
16:49She's done with no help whatsoever
16:50from the very person
16:51who's supposed to, what?
16:52Bring you in the world
16:53and nurture you.
16:54I don't like parts, actually,
16:56if I'm completely honest,
16:57where somebody says
16:58I'm just coming
16:59because I don't want
16:59anything to do with it
17:00because this is about
17:01conflict resolution.
17:02But I totally support this kid
17:03and I absolutely understand her.
17:05She doesn't want anything
17:06to do with you
17:07and today she wanted to say
17:08in front of millions of people
17:09goodnight, Vienna
17:10and she means it.
17:11I'm your mother,
17:12I still love you
17:13and I'll be there
17:14for you.
17:15So...
17:16What's the definition
17:16of the word mother, Karen?
17:18Karen, what's the mother?
17:19I don't care.
17:19That's the thing of mother
17:21and if she only gave me a chance...
17:23And you don't know what that is,
17:24do you...
17:26Do you give me a chance?
17:27No.
17:28Karen, she doesn't want to know you.
17:30Get out.
17:31Just go.
17:32Don't swear.
17:33Just go.
17:34See ya.
17:34See ya.
17:35See ya.
17:36Bye.
17:36Bye.
17:37Christmas is coming.
17:38Are you?
17:39Good riddance.
17:40Good riddance.
17:41See you next week.
17:43See you in two weeks time.
17:45You all right?
17:46Yeah.
17:48I just feel like punching her.
17:49You're better than that.
17:51You know what you went through
17:52because of what you saw?
17:54Not just your illness
17:55but, you know,
17:56the drugs and everything.
17:58I can only say one thing.
17:59It doesn't have to make much sense to you.
18:01You're a better person.
18:02You've had a terrible, terrible start.
18:03I think the fact that you can even sit here
18:05and do what you've done is admirable.
18:07Don't spend your life
18:09being bitter and twisted
18:10because of what she did to you.
18:12You know there are people watching this
18:13and they'll go,
18:14oh, there she is.
18:15There's an older lady
18:16and she's on the screen.
18:17Listen to me.
18:17And she's upset.
18:18But you know what?
18:19She had a really, really good opportunity
18:21to come here today
18:22and say,
18:22I'm not going to kick back.
18:24I'm going to be on my knees
18:25begging forgiveness
18:26and she cannot
18:27and will not understand
18:28that this is all her fault.
18:30She won't have forgiveness off me.
18:31We will do whatever we can
18:32to support you.
18:33We're going to ask you to stay here.
18:34Obviously, we'll talk to her
18:36but I understand it.
18:37If this show's going to be real,
18:39then people have to be able
18:40to react in a way
18:41they want to react.
18:42And you say,
18:42after 27 years of hell,
18:44I want nothing more to do with it.
18:46It's a pleasure to meet you.
18:47Can you lose the picture
18:47of the mother, please, Matt?
18:49Give this young lady who's brave
18:50a big round of applause.
18:51You're okay?
18:53Cool.
18:56Let's support Nathan
18:57after this break on the stage
18:59a man who's here
19:00to banish his brother
19:01from the family.
19:02We're right back.
19:02Don't go anywhere.
19:03You all right, darling?
19:04Come on.
19:07I don't care.
19:08It was poor for them.
19:09No, it wasn't
19:09because it was my dad
19:10who planted her lips
19:11on Jack.
19:11He raved.
19:12It takes two.
19:13It's not like that went.
19:14It's not like that went.
19:15It's not like that went.
19:16It's not like that went.
19:17It went.
19:17It went.
19:20Jeremy Kyle.
19:26Thank you very much,
19:27dear.
19:27Welcome back.
19:28My next guest today,
19:29Chrissy,
19:29is furious
19:30with his brother's fiancee,
19:31Jackie,
19:31and describes her
19:32as a filthy tramp.
19:33Now,
19:33he's here
19:33to banish them both
19:35from the family
19:36in light of a sordid
19:37allegation Jackie
19:38has recently made.
19:39But what's the allegation,
19:40my friend?
19:40Let's find out.
19:41Chris is on
19:41The Kyle Show.
19:49Can I call you
19:50Chris?
19:51Yeah.
19:51Is that all right?
19:52Yeah.
19:52Welcome to the show.
19:53Right,
19:53let's just get this
19:54absolutely right
19:54so we're aware
19:55of absolutely
19:55everybody in the story.
19:56you are William's brother.
19:59Billy's your dad.
20:01William's fiancee,
20:03is that right?
20:03Yeah,
20:04is Jackie.
20:05You describe her
20:07as a liar
20:07and a slag
20:08who offers sex
20:09to anyone
20:10who wants it.
20:11Better be here.
20:12You're a liar,
20:13you s***.
20:15Before I break a jaw.
20:16Oh, you're clean,
20:17you little s***.
20:18You're one of the...
20:23Don't...
20:23Excuse me.
20:25Do me a favour.
20:26Do me a favour.
20:28Do me a favour.
20:28No, really.
20:29Matt lose that picture right now.
20:32He wants to have a nose.
20:33He wants to have a nose.
20:36Zip it.
20:37And you will get your chance.
20:40Wash your mouth out
20:41and you can have your say.
20:42I do not
20:43want to hear your voices
20:44for five minutes.
20:46Be quiet.
20:48And you.
20:49This properly.
20:51Trying to explain.
20:53William is engaged too.
20:54Jackie.
20:56You're going to react
20:57if you're with somebody,
20:59if your kid brother
21:00is on national television
21:01being so rude
21:02about your girlfriend.
21:03However,
21:03why you are so angry
21:05is that something happened
21:06on Boxing Day this year
21:08that involved your dad
21:09and Jackie
21:10and it has torn
21:11this family apart.
21:12So with that effing
21:13and jeffing,
21:14tell me what it was.
21:15What it was.
21:15Boxing Day,
21:16my brother and his girlfriend
21:17was at my mum's house.
21:18I wasn't there.
21:19Slowly.
21:20My mum phoned us up
21:21and basically
21:22my dad was a bit drunk
21:24and he gave out a cuddle
21:25and they ended up kissing
21:26and he touched her breast
21:27and her bum.
21:28Sorry, sorry, sorry.
21:30Nyee, nyee, nyee, nyee, nyee, nyee.
21:32Your dad,
21:32when drunk,
21:34ended up kissing
21:35his future daughter-in-law.
21:36Because it was just
21:37like for a Christmas,
21:38you know what I mean?
21:39What sort of kiss
21:40are we talking about?
21:41I think it was on the mouth.
21:43Like a peck on the mouth.
21:44And the thing is,
21:45the thing is,
21:45right,
21:46with the greatest of respect,
21:48you're getting angry with him.
21:49If my dad had done that
21:50to my bird,
21:51I'd be feeling like he was
21:52and I wouldn't be expecting
21:53my brother to be calling
21:54my girlfriend a slag.
21:55Your dad's bang out of order.
21:56I know he's bang out of order,
21:57but it doesn't just take...
21:58And you're blaming him and her
21:59for ruining your parents' marriage.
22:00But it doesn't take just one,
22:02it takes both of them.
22:03You cross the line,
22:04but I know she...
22:04You told my team
22:05and I quote,
22:05she was practically begging
22:07my dad to touch her up.
22:09Basically it is.
22:10That's what it is.
22:11All this unboxing day.
22:12Yeah.
22:13What do you know
22:14that exactly happened?
22:15He kissed her,
22:16whatever,
22:17and then what she cried.
22:18Oh my God,
22:18he's...
22:19No, she didn't even say no.
22:20How did they...
22:21She didn't even push him away
22:22or say stop or nothing.
22:23Where was William?
22:24Yeah, he was in the computer
22:25room with me mum.
22:26I read he was on the toilet
22:27smoking a joint.
22:29No, he was in the bedroom
22:30playing on the computer
22:31with me mum.
22:32Okay.
22:32And how did it come out then
22:33that it happened
22:34between dad and daughter
22:35and daughter?
22:35I don't know me
22:36because I wasn't there.
22:37Why has it torn the family apart?
22:39Because it nearly cost me mum
22:40and dad 28 years of marriage.
22:42Maybe your dad
22:43should not drink
22:44because she'll keep his mouth
22:45to himself for the grass.
22:46I know, I know that.
22:48But it's just
22:49at the end of the day
22:50it takes two to tango, really.
22:52Yeah, no, I know it takes two to tango
22:54and your angle is that
22:55this woman has a reputation.
22:56This woman is the main cause of this.
22:58You say that she exaggerates
23:00what happens specifically
23:02on the night
23:02and she flaunts herself.
23:04You say she wears
23:05low-cut tops
23:06and all that sort of stuff.
23:08Basically,
23:09do you fancy her?
23:10No.
23:10Would you be inclined
23:11if you were drunk
23:12to give her a kiss?
23:13No.
23:14I wouldn't touch her.
23:15She's a big f***ing
23:16f***ing
23:17basically,
23:17to be honest with you.
23:19I don't want to hear
23:21language like that.
23:22Well, it's
23:23the way I am, isn't it?
23:25Well, change the way you are.
23:26Don't use language like that
23:28or you won't do it.
23:29So as a result
23:30of your sister-in-law-to-be
23:32wearing a low-cut top
23:33and having apparently,
23:35well,
23:36encouraging your dad,
23:37Billy,
23:37who got drunk,
23:38he put his arms around
23:39and gave her a kiss.
23:40This is Boxing Day night
23:41and he and the mother
23:42are now at loggerheads
23:43and you and the brother
23:43are also.
23:45Right,
23:45this will be
23:45him,
23:45stingy brother Williams
23:46on the Jeremy Carl show.
23:53Come on,
23:54come on,
23:55come on,
23:56you big,
23:56come on,
23:57you little radgy.
23:58Come on.
23:59I'm supposed to be scared of you.
24:02I don't think so.
24:03Why are you calling me that
24:04a dirty fuck?
24:06She's done nothing to you,
24:07Christopher.
24:08Don't want me,
24:09William.
24:09She's just nearly wrecked me
24:10ma's and died as marriage,
24:11man.
24:11I don't care.
24:12No.
24:13It was me da who done it,
24:14right?
24:15It was both of them.
24:15No, it wasn't,
24:16because it was me da who
24:17banged her lips on Jackie,
24:18right?
24:19It takes two.
24:20It's not like that when
24:21it's not like that when
24:22when I went with me ma
24:23along with me,
24:24no.
24:26It takes two.
24:27It was when I went
24:27along with me ma.
24:28No.
24:29No.
24:29Can you any
24:30alices?
24:31Shut up.
24:31No.
24:31That me da trying to get
24:32Jackie in the bend.
24:33That's some...
24:34Well, get out of the
24:35light detector.
24:36Go on.
24:37Get out of the light detector.
24:38Go on.
24:39She can do it all.
24:40I'll not stop that.
24:41And I bet you come back
24:42that's just lying.
24:43I didn't stop her from
24:43doing this.
24:44Come back just lying.
24:45Did I stop that from...
24:46Trust me.
24:46So what's me?
24:47Hello?
24:48Just lying.
24:49Trust me.
24:50William, you never
24:50nab that properly then.
24:51Oi.
24:52Excuse me.
24:53More like that day, son.
24:55No, you don't.
24:55Sit down and stop
24:56scoring sheet points.
24:58I'm not scoring sheet points.
24:59Just be quiet.
25:00Just let me do it.
25:04That's squabbling
25:05teenagers.
25:06Let me paint the picture.
25:07Don't look at him.
25:07Look at me.
25:08Because there's a bloke
25:08between you that wouldn't
25:09give you five seconds.
25:10All right.
25:10So don't even try it.
25:11Look at me.
25:11What happened on
25:12boxing day night?
25:13Jacky was sitting in the
25:14set room and I asked me
25:16mate to go and sit with me
25:17dad because I don't trust
25:18him whatsoever.
25:19You don't trust your dad?
25:20No, I don't.
25:20William, you're a complete
25:21liar.
25:22I don't.
25:22I can't trust him as far
25:23as I can through him.
25:24You told my team that
25:25he's always been a bit
25:26leery with women.
25:27Leery with women.
25:28Yes, he has.
25:29So, just be quiet.
25:31Oi, you've had your say.
25:32Seriously.
25:33I'm not going to have him
25:33do you do that.
25:34You've said you've
25:35called his girlfriend a
25:36slag and you...
25:37I don't care.
25:37Well, he has a right
25:38to an opinion so be quiet.
25:40You're saying that
25:41your dad's always been
25:42like this.
25:42So, what do you know
25:44that happened on that
25:46day?
25:46Not just you.
25:47Because I was sitting
25:48in the bathroom and I
25:49was having a giant...
25:51What were you told?
25:54Well, the dog was
25:55going rad and I asked
25:56me might have gone check.
25:57I don't care about the
25:58dog.
25:58And that's when me
25:59might tell his dad
26:00she caught me da
26:02kissing Jackie.
26:04Your mum caught your
26:05dad knocking your
26:06girlfriend.
26:07Let's put it in
26:07English, yeah?
26:08Yeah.
26:09And you picked up
26:10on this when you came
26:11out that he made the
26:13first move.
26:13Now, your brother says
26:15and he used bad
26:15words but he said
26:16that your girlfriend...
26:18What would we say?
26:19Teases men.
26:20Wears low-cut tops.
26:21Brings it on herself.
26:22Your dad was drunk.
26:24I mean, I said to him
26:24already whether you like
26:25this or not, your dad
26:26crossed the line.
26:27Your dad's responsible.
26:28But the argument...
26:29No, no, no.
26:30The argument is
26:30did your girlfriend
26:31encourage that?
26:32Now, I understand you're
26:33angry because your
26:34brother's saying
26:34your girlfriend's this,
26:35your girlfriend's that
26:36and it was your dad
26:37and her.
26:38How come you've
26:39forgiven her then?
26:40Because it was 50-50.
26:41She's as bad as your dad.
26:42Exactly.
26:42No, it's not.
26:44It's because my dad
26:45wasn't even drunk at all.
26:46What was it that your
26:47discused me, I mean it.
26:49What was it your girlfriend,
26:51fiance, didn't tell you
26:52until yesterday
26:52because she was too scared?
26:54That my dad tried to get
26:55out of the bed
26:56and Jackie turned on
26:57tell us last night
26:58that my dad tried to get
26:59out of the bed
27:00and asked Jackie
27:01the suckies.
27:02I don't think so,
27:03William.
27:04To what?
27:05I don't think so,
27:06William.
27:07Keep it in the family.
27:08Right.
27:10So you two are at
27:10Loggerheads.
27:11Your girlfriend's
27:12going to come out.
27:12Can you do me a favor?
27:13I can't do with the
27:14screaming.
27:14I'm getting old
27:15and I've got a headache
27:16and it annoys him
27:16and you don't want
27:17to get him annoyed.
27:17Jackie's on the
27:18Jeremy Kyle show.
27:23You!
27:23You don't want
27:24your dad's like
27:25that!
27:25Give him short.
27:26No!
27:26You don't want
27:27your dad's like!
27:28I've known me
27:28that man.
27:29I've known them
27:29for the last 26 years.
27:30Hey, man!
27:32He's about to eat
27:33that with you.
27:33So your lips.
27:34Show your lips.
27:35Show your lips.
27:36Show your lips.
27:37Why?
27:38Why?
27:39What's going to happen?
27:39What's going to happen?
27:41Hey!
27:41Nothing!
27:42You!
27:43I don't think so.
27:44I don't care, man.
27:46Please.
27:47I didn't even want
27:47to be that, man.
27:48He formed the show
27:49and got me down.
27:50It's what I'm saying.
27:51It's what I'm saying.
27:52It's what I'm saying.
27:53That's where you're on.
27:54Be quiet.
27:57Be quiet.
27:58Stand there.
27:59Don't hear him.
28:00I'll see him.
28:00Look at me.
28:01I don't care what you see.
28:02Don't anybody say anything.
28:03What happened?
28:03What happened physically?
28:05William was on the joint.
28:06What?
28:07William was on the joint
28:08in the bathroom.
28:09He was having a drink.
28:10A joint.
28:11Oh, a joint.
28:11I don't want to know about him.
28:12What happened with him?
28:13Lover boy.
28:14What happened?
28:14Lover boy!
28:15Did he kiss you?
28:16Did he grope you?
28:17What did he just...
28:17He just said all the time.
28:19He comes in mind.
28:21Be quiet.
28:22He comes in mind.
28:22He looks down my top
28:23and everything else generally.
28:25No, he doesn't.
28:26Yes, he does, Chrissy!
28:27I don't...
28:27I don't...
28:28He has a dish!
28:28I don't care what you see.
28:30I don't care what you see.
28:32Jackie, you will get somewhere
28:33if you stop everything...
28:34Yes, two minutes.
28:36If you were supposed to do that,
28:37if you were supposed to look down your...
28:38Go to your house
28:39and look down your top.
28:40The problem is...
28:41Why doesn't he look down
28:41mate that lass's top?
28:43He doesn't look down mate that lass's top,
28:44so why is he gonna do it here?
28:45He does, Chrissy.
28:46No, he doesn't.
28:47He does, he does.
28:48You do me a favor.
28:49The point is this.
28:51If I accept everything
28:52that everybody's said,
28:53the problem you've got is this.
28:55You admitted your old man
28:57crossed a line,
28:58hear me out,
28:59drunk or not drunk,
29:00and tried to kiss her and cuddle her.
29:02That's not...
29:03It doesn't matter in my humble opinion
29:05whether she laid it on a plate, right?
29:08It doesn't make a difference, does it?
29:09The fact is he took her up on that offer
29:12or did whatever he did.
29:13He is surely, in this instance,
29:15the person who's responsible,
29:17not her.
29:18No, he's not responsible at all.
29:19Both of them are responsible.
29:22It takes two.
29:22All right, stop.
29:23He says it takes two.
29:25Now, let's just...
29:26You know I'm Ray J.
29:27Let's just say...
29:28Whatever, Chrissy.
29:28Let's just say,
29:29because your whole face changed
29:30when he said that.
29:31Let's just say that you were...
29:32Whatever.
29:32That you were...
29:33I don't know.
29:33You are what they say you are.
29:35Slightly flattered,
29:36you brought the man...
29:37I don't know.
29:37You wound him up.
29:39You brought him...
29:39You brought him forward, right?
29:41Ray, can I say...
29:42Why didn't you scream and shout
29:44and run out of the house
29:45crying your eyes out?
29:46The father of your...
29:47The father of your...
29:48The father of your...
29:50The father of your...
30:02I don't think so.
30:03I don't think so.
30:04I don't think so.
30:05Do you feel uncomfortable
30:06in his presence?
30:07Yeah.
30:07Then when your boyfriend
30:08went to smoke a joint,
30:09because that was great,
30:10wasn't it?
30:10Why did you allow yourself
30:11to stay in a room with him?
30:12I went to try to get out
30:13the door, Johnny.
30:14Why did you leave her
30:15if you knew this was
30:16what your dad was like?
30:17Yeah, I said.
30:17No, you didn't.
30:18Chrissy, what are you doing?
30:19What are you doing?
30:22Shut up.
30:23Of course you didn't.
30:24Be quiet.
30:24You went there, Chrissy.
30:25Why did you leave her
30:26with the man that you say
30:27you don't trust?
30:27I thought my man
30:28was going to stay
30:28in the same room
30:29as your dad.
30:29They don't trust your dad
30:30at all?
30:30No, I can't stand him
30:31and I can't trust him.
30:32So why are you here today?
30:33Because I want this
30:34all to come out.
30:36What?
30:36To say if he's telling
30:38the lies
30:39or telling the truth.
30:40You believe your girlfriend?
30:41They say if she's telling
30:42the truth or lying.
30:43You're not exactly
30:44Mr. Perfect, though.
30:45You burgled his house
30:46some time ago.
30:47Yeah, I did.
30:48I'm not ashamed.
30:49I'm not ashamed.
30:50You're not ashamed
30:51to admit on national television
30:52you burgled
30:53an old man's house?
30:54Well, you should.
30:54Well, I'm not ashamed.
30:55Well, I agree with him.
30:56You should be totally ashamed.
30:57You know what I mean?
30:58What do you think
30:58of the fact that your boyfriend...
30:59Fair enough, I've got
30:5918 months suspended sentence
31:00and...
31:01You burgled your own
31:02parents' house
31:02and you think that's okay?
31:03No, I don't.
31:04You just said it's all right.
31:05No, I don't.
31:07Stop talking.
31:07You're like an annoying dog.
31:08Be quiet.
31:09Well, I'm an influence
31:10of heroin
31:11and dodgy blues
31:12and I didn't know
31:13who I was at the time.
31:14What a fantastic example
31:15of a family.
31:16Dad Billy's
31:16on the Jeremy Kyle show.
31:18Oh, there you go.
31:27Nobody else speak.
31:28I'm doing this.
31:29If you speak,
31:29you're out of here.
31:30Were you drunk
31:31on Boxing Day night?
31:32Yes.
31:34Did you try
31:35and kiss her?
31:36Yes, I did, yes.
31:38I hold me hands up.
31:39Have you been
31:40inappropriate
31:40to her before?
31:42No.
31:43Your son
31:43on the left
31:44is sticking up
31:45for you
31:46and saying,
31:46this isn't fair,
31:48Jackie put it on him,
31:50she flaunts her breast,
31:51she's this,
31:52she's that.
31:52The truth is
31:53this is your fault,
31:54Billy, isn't it?
31:55Nobody does.
31:55Yes, it is.
31:56Why don't you tell
31:57your son
31:57because he thinks
31:58it's her fault.
31:59Why don't you tell him?
32:00It's not your fault.
32:01No, it's not.
32:01It's not.
32:02It takes two, man.
32:03Yes, it takes two.
32:04You should listen
32:05to your dad.
32:06No, you see?
32:08If you suppose
32:08me that bad,
32:09why didn't you
32:10turn in,
32:10why didn't you
32:11shock me, ma?
32:12Why didn't you
32:12shock me, ma?
32:13and tell me, ma?
32:14I said, did you?
32:15Don't even get involved,
32:16should I?
32:16I don't think so.
32:17At least he's come out
32:18and missed it.
32:18Why are you not
32:19telling him
32:20to button his lip
32:21and listen to his dad
32:22because you've admitted.
32:23Listen to me.
32:23No, dad.
32:24I've talked him
32:25for too long, ma, no?
32:26Listen, will you?
32:27No, no.
32:28I don't care, dad.
32:29You don't.
32:31Your dad.
32:31They're not dictating you.
32:33No.
32:34You should have.
32:35No.
32:35What's this done
32:36to your marriage, Billy?
32:40I don't...
32:42It's destroyed
32:43the marriage, really.
32:44And you know,
32:44you've surprised me
32:45because you've come out
32:45here and you've put
32:46your hands in the air
32:46and said it's my fault.
32:47I'm not surprised.
32:49You say this is your fault?
32:50Yes, it bugs me, boy.
32:51You apologize to her?
32:52It takes two retangle.
32:54Did you kiss him back?
32:55No.
32:55Yeah, he did.
32:56No.
32:56See, now I look at your face
32:58and I don't know
32:58what to believe.
32:59No.
32:59Did you kiss him back?
33:00No, I did not.
33:01Do you think she kissed him back?
33:03Take a lie detector.
33:04Go on.
33:05Take a lie detector
33:06and prove it.
33:07I was going to take one.
33:08Go on.
33:09Right, not one.
33:10Right?
33:11I'll come back on it.
33:12I don't mean to be rude.
33:13You know, Christ,
33:13this show's about,
33:14you know,
33:15the breakdowns of relationships
33:16and families and whatever.
33:17You've admitted
33:17that you made a mistake.
33:19Whether or not
33:19you kissed him back,
33:20I don't know.
33:21I made the point,
33:21people seem to pick up on it,
33:23that if a man attacks a woman,
33:25a woman should scream
33:26and shout
33:26and run in the opposite direction.
33:27I've finished.
33:28It's my show now,
33:29I'm talking.
33:29I've had enough of you
33:29screaming, all of you.
33:31You obviously have
33:32no sort of relationship at all.
33:33He burglar your house.
33:34He doesn't trust you at all.
33:35You're blindly supporting your dad.
33:37So we seem from this
33:38to ascertain that this family
33:40is split forever.
33:41You don't want anything to...
33:42I want one for it.
33:43All I want at the end of the day
33:45is him to pay me my...
33:46the money he owes me mother
33:47and then I want them
33:48both out of me life.
33:49I don't want it.
33:50Do you want her mother back?
33:51Well, I'll tell you what.
33:51Can I say anything to me?
33:53Tell me, ma,
33:54when she was living with you,
33:56tell her to give me the money,
33:57me and Jackie,
33:58the money back,
33:58what we were giving her.
33:59So it comes down to that.
34:01Does it money?
34:02Wait a minute.
34:03What money?
34:04Every time me and Jackie's
34:06been going up to yours,
34:07when them were living it,
34:08I was giving them...
34:14So it comes back to money?
34:17Because whatever money...
34:18Do you ever stop talking?
34:20No.
34:21Do.
34:22Quiet, quiet.
34:23It comes down to money.
34:24You want nothing to do with your dad.
34:26So when we...
34:31They want nothing to do with you
34:33and your life.
34:36Fair play for you coming out here
34:37and putting your hands in the air.
34:38Just one thing,
34:39because I've got it late.
34:40Stop screaming and shouting at each other.
34:41Go in opposite directions
34:42and at the end of the day,
34:43you've nothing to lose.
34:44Take your dad that way.
34:45Take your girlfriend that way.
34:47Done.
34:55Right, for an instant update
34:56on today's guest,
34:57you can follow us on Twitter.
34:59I never thought I'd actually say that.
35:00Right, moving on.
35:00Last year, I met Donna
35:01who claimed that her sister's partner,
35:03check this,
35:05came on to her.
35:06Look at this, my friends.
35:08You're watching the television
35:09with a pint.
35:10Beautiful.
35:11And he comes over
35:12and touches you up.
35:13Yeah.
35:14What do we mean?
35:15I don't even know
35:15why I'm asking this question.
35:16What do we mean,
35:17touched you up?
35:18Started feeling my breasts
35:20and basically,
35:22in a way that,
35:24look, I want to have sex with you.
35:26He sent you a text.
35:27What did the text say?
35:30He sent me a text saying,
35:31when you come down,
35:34do you want sex?
35:35I'm a lying little cow.
35:37Yeah, of course he did.
35:38Yeah, he did.
35:39When I read his text messages,
35:40I don't think so, lady.
35:42We asked Arnie
35:42since the start of your relationship
35:43with Anne,
35:44have you had sexual intercourse
35:45with Donna?
35:46He said no.
35:48Because Arnie
35:49was telling the truth.
35:51These results
35:51are about her behaviour
35:53and whether she's cheated on you.
35:54He's in the clear.
35:55Since you restarted
35:56your relationship
35:57with Michael
35:57in January 2010,
35:59apart from the two people
36:00you've just admitted to,
36:01which you know about,
36:02have you passionately kissed
36:03anyone else?
36:04She said no.
36:07Hey, guess what?
36:08I'm a lying.
36:09Of course she was lying.
36:10You're a liar, aren't you?
36:11No.
36:12And since you restarted
36:14your relationship
36:14with Michael
36:15in January 2010,
36:16have you had sexual intercourse
36:17with anyone else?
36:18She said no.
36:18It gives me no pleasure.
36:19Your missus failed
36:20every single question.
36:21The issue is her,
36:23not her sister
36:23or her nice husband,
36:24so stop giving it to them
36:25and deal with your own house
36:27because she is a liar.
36:30Now, after the show,
36:31the two sisters
36:31naturally went their separate ways
36:33and they haven't seen
36:34each other since.
36:35Donna's sister, Anne,
36:36and her partner, Arnie,
36:36are stronger than ever,
36:37whereas Michael
36:38and Donna's relationship,
36:39surprise, surprise,
36:40has hit the rocks.
36:41Now, after the show,
36:41Donna confessed
36:42that she did indeed sleep
36:44with another man
36:44and today Michael says
36:45that he may go home without her.
36:47This guy has been through
36:48so much turmoil
36:50and has found it
36:50really difficult to move on.
36:51He's on the stage already.
36:52Give Michael a round of applause.
36:54How are you, pal?
36:55All right?
36:56Just to recap,
36:58you're all right,
36:59you're fine.
36:59I really appreciate you coming back.
37:00Just to recap,
37:01so there she was,
37:02your partner Donna.
37:03She comes on the show.
37:04She makes a big thing
37:05that Arnie is back in the audience.
37:06Good to see you, my friend.
37:07You know,
37:08partner of her sister
37:09has tried it on.
37:10Arnie's very, very dignified
37:12and gets upset.
37:14The lie detector comes back.
37:16Arnie's telling the truth.
37:17Donna's a liar.
37:18Not only that,
37:18then we do as you saw,
37:19a lie detector
37:20and Donna has actually cheated.
37:22The million dollar question
37:23to Arnie,
37:24to me,
37:24to everybody watching,
37:25to everybody.
37:25So why the hell
37:26are you still with her?
37:28I expected that.
37:29I expected that coming from you
37:30and everyone else.
37:34It sounds stupid
37:35and it is stupid
37:37because I love her
37:39and I know a little bit
37:40about her background.
37:42That's why I care about her.
37:44You're a really nice guy
37:45and you said
37:46that she confessed
37:47when you got home
37:48that she'd slept
37:48with another guy
37:49in the car.
37:52And this doesn't give me
37:53any pleasure as well.
37:54You say that
37:55you argue all the time.
37:57I know she's walking
37:58all over me.
37:59I know she is.
38:01You say that physically
38:02she doesn't want
38:03to come near you,
38:04she's not interested,
38:06she's not loving,
38:07she's not attentive.
38:08She's taking everything
38:10at the moment.
38:13Oi, please,
38:13just wait.
38:14I want to hear from Michael
38:15and please, go on.
38:16At the moment,
38:18since the last programme,
38:20I told her,
38:21look,
38:22it's make or break.
38:23You tell me the truth
38:24or you're bleeping
38:25get out of my bleeping life.
38:28And she says,
38:29right,
38:30I'll tell you the truth.
38:30And she told you everything.
38:31She had sex with the man
38:32in the car,
38:32she made up all the accusations
38:34about Arnie.
38:34Why are you still with her?
38:36Because, like I said...
38:37You might love her
38:38but she say you argue
38:39all the time,
38:39she's not intimate with you,
38:40she doesn't actually
38:41treat you decently.
38:42So, I mean,
38:43we've all got to keep
38:44saying it to you.
38:45What do you get
38:46from this relationship?
38:47Absolutely.
38:48At the moment,
38:48nothing at all.
38:49What's today about, pal?
38:50It's to get the truth.
38:52I mean...
38:53But you see, I've got...
38:54It's not just Donna
38:55that I want to get
38:56the truth from.
38:57I want answers
38:57from Arnold.
38:59Why do you like
39:00answers from Arnie?
39:01Because at the time
39:02that she was cheating
39:03on me down
39:05where they live,
39:07they knew about it.
39:08Well, they didn't tell her.
39:09I mean, with the greatest of respect...
39:10We did not know about it, Mike.
39:12We did not know about it.
39:13According to Donna,
39:14she said that you did.
39:15But I mean,
39:15with the greatest of respect,
39:16Donna's been proven
39:17to be a habitual liar.
39:18And what you have to think about,
39:20and I'm going to go to a break
39:20and they'll all be out,
39:21but what you have to think about is,
39:22can your brain
39:23ever recover,
39:25genuinely,
39:26from what she told you
39:27and then what you found out
39:28to be the truth?
39:29It's not about him,
39:30me,
39:30or anybody else.
39:31Do you trust that woman?
39:34You don't, do you?
39:36No.
39:37That, my friend,
39:38however hard it sounds,
39:39is the reality.
39:40I'm back after this break.
39:41Don't go anywhere.
39:42He told my team
39:43he thinks she might have
39:44cheated up to nine times.
39:45No.
39:46It's more than once, though,
39:47isn't it?
39:47It is more than once.
39:48Come on.
39:49It's not...
39:49Oh, look, here we go.
39:50We're blinking again.
39:52It's more than once, isn't it?
39:53Like three times.
40:05Thank you very much indeed.
40:06Welcome back.
40:06Before the break,
40:07talking to Michael,
40:07we know the story
40:08about Donna the Lies,
40:09making up about a sister,
40:10cheating on you.
40:11You still love her.
40:12You say,
40:13and I think this is a really
40:14important point to make,
40:15you say that she doesn't
40:17make you feel as she
40:19should make you feel.
40:20Yeah.
40:20It's all give, give,
40:22give from me,
40:23so it's take, take,
40:23take from her,
40:24but when I require
40:25something back,
40:26it doesn't matter
40:27what it is,
40:29it's basically get lost.
40:30But why'd you put up
40:31with that?
40:32Because I'm stupid.
40:33No, you're not.
40:34You're actually a decent man
40:35who's blinded by something.
40:36You're going to bring her out,
40:37but do me a favour,
40:38stop being soft
40:38and put your foot down
40:39because I'm telling you,
40:39at the end of the day,
40:40you will screw yourself
40:41into the ground
40:42worrying about somebody
40:44who, frankly,
40:44look at her.
40:45She's cold.
40:46Donna's on the
40:46Jeremy Kyle show.
40:47Give her a round of applause.
40:52Can stop the little girl act
40:53who didn't work last time,
40:54did it?
40:55You're a liar.
40:56I know.
40:57You lied about your sister,
40:58you lied about Arnie
40:59and you lied to Michael.
41:00He is in turmoil.
41:01He says you don't treat him
41:02in any sort of way at all.
41:04Why should he stay with you?
41:06He told my team
41:07he thinks she might have
41:07cheated up to nine times.
41:09No.
41:10It's more than once,
41:10though, isn't it?
41:11It is more than once.
41:23The gentleman here
41:24has just said to you
41:25how many times
41:26he said once.
41:28He had to raise his voice
41:29like I had to raise my voice
41:30and say how many times,
41:32and then he says
41:34three.
41:34Can I tell the truth?
41:35You've turned it
41:36from one to three.
41:37You're taking the mickey
41:38out of this guy.
41:39Yeah, I'm going to get her out.
41:41It's your sister,
41:42and she's back
41:42because she had a belly
41:43for a ride.
41:44Don't get out of here.
41:50I wish I could slap you.
41:53I swear to God.
41:55You're not using him.
41:57Stop being a using little cow.
42:01Otherwise, me and her
42:02are going to seriously fall out.
42:05You're not saying,
42:06Mom.
42:07You're not saying, Dad.
42:08You're really starting
42:09to really, really
42:10get on my goat.
42:11You've said it absolutely.
42:12She's using Michael,
42:13and he's blinded
42:14and we're not having
42:15a go at him.
42:16You'll need to start
42:17getting a bat ball
42:19and tell her straight.
42:20You're just a hard-nosed
42:21habitual liar, aren't you?
42:23Why?
42:23What?
42:24Yes.
42:25What do you mean, yes?
42:27I have told her.
42:28Michael, Michael, Michael,
42:29what do you want?
42:30This show can only be
42:31about the truth.
42:31She's using your pal.
42:32I want.
42:33I want to be the truth.
42:34Because what are you
42:35getting from her?
42:36I'm getting nothing.
42:37You never did anywhere.
42:39Yeah, you're right there.
42:40You know what, Donnie?
42:41You are so,
42:42you are so
42:44emotionless, right?
42:45You go,
42:45like that.
42:46You are not carrying
42:47bone in your body.
42:47It's your fault
42:48they're in this mess.
42:50You.
42:50Nobody else.
42:51You don't love him,
42:52do you?
42:53Yeah.
42:54Why?
42:54Oh, my God.
42:55No, you don't.
42:56You use him.
42:56Yeah, I do.
42:57You don't love him at all.
42:59Do you not like
43:00the fact he's in a wheelchair?
43:01They don't know what.
43:02Go on.
43:03You can't help that.
43:04But I'm there all the time
43:05for him.
43:05What, cheating?
43:06Lying?
43:07Conniving?
43:08Bitching?
43:09Being horrible?
43:09I've said sorry to him
43:11for cheating on him.
43:12Really?
43:13Yeah.
43:13He says that you don't
43:14do anything for him.
43:15You make him feel worthless.
43:17You've done nothing to...
43:18He's a nice guy.
43:18All I've got is words, yeah?
43:20Have you ever heard the expression,
43:22actions,
43:24speak louder than words?
43:25Yeah.
43:26All I've had is from you's words.
43:28Yeah, because all we've done
43:29is rowed at the minute.
43:31But it's up to you.
43:31We're rowed, though,
43:32because you cheated, yeah?
43:33Then why don't you accept
43:35that you can't get back
43:36from that and move on?
43:37We're rowed because you cheated
43:38and you lied, yeah?
43:41Ten months ago,
43:42when we were back
43:42when we was on here,
43:43yeah,
43:44you got found out
43:45a liar.
43:46I said to you
43:47when we got back home,
43:48tell me the truth
43:49or, like the nation's saying,
43:52dump her.
43:54Yeah, but Michael,
43:54you won't, though.
43:55That's just a problem.
43:56And there's the reality, Michael.
43:57It's him telling you that.
43:59And do you know what, Mike?
44:00Mike, Mike.
44:00He just kills me
44:01as a fucking doormat.
44:02Do you know what,
44:03if I'm being completely straight
44:04as well,
44:05why Anne's right
44:05and Anne is right,
44:06you can moan and bitch
44:07for a while
44:08and in the end
44:08people get fed up.
44:09I'm not having a go at you.
44:10I'm just being straight.
44:10They'll go,
44:11listen, you know what she is,
44:13you know what she's like,
44:14you know what she's done,
44:14and still,
44:15you're going on and on
44:16and sending text messages
44:17and moaning and crying
44:19and understandably,
44:20the end of the day, mate,
44:21put up or shut up.
44:22She ain't gonna change.
44:23You look at her face,
44:24I can tell you
44:24she doesn't love you,
44:25I can tell you
44:26she's gonna use you
44:26and I can tell you
44:27it ain't gonna get any better.
44:32Get rid, mate,
44:33you are better than her,
44:35seriously.
44:36You tell me
44:37you're saying
44:38that you wanted
44:39your sister back.
44:41What have you done
44:42to get me back?
44:43Nothing.
44:44Have you been in touch with me?
44:45Have you wrote to me?
44:47Have you got me on?
44:47Because I've been trying
44:48to sort this one out.
44:49No, you haven't been
44:49trying to sort this one out at all.
44:49You haven't even bothered
44:50getting in touch with me
44:52to talk to me?
44:53Michael, here's the thing.
44:54No, yeah,
44:54because I've been trying
44:55to sort out the...
44:56I never asked you this
44:57on the last show, Donna,
44:58why did you try to split
44:59your sister's relationship out?
45:02Because I'm jealous
45:04of the success that you've got.
45:05Well, why the hell
45:06don't you talk to me?
45:08Maybe I can help you.
45:10You are like a cold,
45:11wet fish.
45:12There is nothing from you,
45:13my love.
45:14At the end of the day,
45:15either you're gonna prove
45:16to him that you are
45:17gonna change
45:18or you're gonna try
45:19and reinvigorate
45:20your relationship
45:20with your sister.
45:21But I'm sorry,
45:21you come across
45:22as a cold-hearted,
45:23lying user.
45:24And you,
45:25here's the thing,
45:26change the game plan.
45:27I said it,
45:28put up or shut up.
45:28At the end of the day,
45:29right,
45:30either you change
45:31the game plan
45:31and make her try
45:32and prove
45:33that she wants you
45:34or, as Arnie says,
45:35stop bitching, mate,
45:35and go.
45:36Because you ain't gonna,
45:37this isn't life,
45:38this is just a horrible existence.
45:40You're not happy,
45:40are you?
45:41No.
45:41And nor are you,
45:42are you?
45:43No, I'm not.
45:43Are you?
45:44Not till we get it sorted out,
45:45no.
45:45Well, how can you get it sorted out
45:47when you don't talk?
45:48You know what I think
45:49you should do?
45:49It's right,
45:50we do not talk.
45:52I think you should go
45:53on a temporary break, mate.
45:54I think you should make her
45:55want you.
45:55I think you should go off
45:56and do some other things
45:57and make her realise...
45:58But that's just a problem,
45:59we walk.
45:59Put up or shut up.
46:02And you've offered to help,
46:03Donna,
46:04we've offered to help.
46:05At the end of the day,
46:06we'll continue that,
46:07but I'm not having you back here.
46:08At the end of the day,
46:09Michael,
46:09you know what she is,
46:10you know what you've
46:11had to go through.
46:12You know what you did.
46:13The emphasis
46:14to make this better
46:15has to come from you.
46:17I know what I do,
46:18though, mate.
46:18I agree with you.
46:20But you won't,
46:20will you?
46:20But at some point,
46:22you're going to have to
46:22stop moaning to everybody else
46:23because this is your choice.
46:26We make our bed,
46:27we're getting it.
46:27Give them a round of applause.
46:28Stay there, my friends.
46:29Thank you very much indeed.
46:31I know what I do, pal.
46:33Hard, though,
46:33isn't it?
46:34Think about it sometimes.
46:35You know,
46:35you're with somebody,
46:36you know it doesn't work.
46:37You think,
46:37if I finish with that person,
46:38everybody will say,
46:38I told you so,
46:39and you think,
46:39how would I start again?
46:40Somebody once said to me,
46:41the best piece of advice,
46:43we'll only truly ever be happy
46:44with somebody
46:45when we learn to be happy
46:47on our own.
46:47I am for this morning
46:48out of time.
46:48Don't forget,
46:49if you want to be on my show,
46:50you need my help.
46:51Visit our website.
46:51The details are on screen
46:52to the guests,
46:53to the audience,
46:53and to you five watching at home.
46:54I'll see you very soon.
46:55Take care.
46:56Bye-bye, friends.
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