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00:00On today's show, you said I had a terribly violent childhood.
00:05It first started when I was three.
00:07My mother would sort of like send me up to the bedroom, lock me in the room,
00:12where I would have to pee in a bucket, be locked there all day with no food, no nothing.
00:16She was definitely blinding at me and just went push out the window.
00:20She did not even come down to see if I was all right.
00:23You need her today to do what?
00:25I need her to tell me the truth and tell me why she treated me like she did.
00:29You are a liar.
00:31No, I am not a liar, Mother.
00:33I am not the liar.
00:35Look at the letter.
00:37She ripped me and she lived with me.
00:38Telling you how I felt.
00:40You need to give her some answers.
00:42Don't just sit there.
00:43Because I will go for you.
00:46Your mother may be scared of you, boy, but I ain't.
00:49And I'm not going to sit down because you're not going to be happy
00:52until your mother is six foot under the ground.
00:55And then you won't be bloody satisfied.
00:57You've been the best parent anyway.
01:00Well, neither have you, mate.
01:01Better than you.
01:02That's all on my show.
01:03It's next.
01:04Good morning, guys.
01:31How are you?
01:32Good morning.
01:33You all right?
01:34Hello?
01:34You all right?
01:35Don't miss the spirit.
01:36Good morning.
01:37Good morning.
01:37You all right?
01:38Hello, darling.
01:38You all right?
01:39Nice to see you.
01:40Hello.
01:40You all right?
01:41Yeah.
01:42Brilliant.
01:42You all right?
01:43Lovely.
01:44That's a bit.
01:44You all right?
01:45Good morning.
01:46You all right?
01:46Good morning.
01:46Thank you very much, indeed.
01:48Good morning.
01:48And as ever a big, big welcome to the show.
01:50Now, my first guest, Helen, tells us her relationship with her mother
01:53is non-existent.
01:54She claims her mum, Lynn, beat her as a child.
01:56And, check this, even pushed her out of a window.
01:58Now, years later, Helen says her mum still threatens her with abuse and treats her like
02:02the family outcast.
02:03She has had enough.
02:04She wants a relationship with her mother, but only if her mother apologises and today
02:09on this show admits the truth.
02:11She's on the show.
02:12Ladies and gentlemen, Helen, give her a round of applause.
02:13I just wanted to start by saying a lot of people come on this show and they say, oh,
02:23my childhood was a nightmare.
02:24You know, I was treated really badly.
02:27And we do try and get to the root cause of it.
02:30But some of the stuff you've told us about Lynn, your mum, is horrific.
02:35You said, I had a terribly violent childhood.
02:39It first started when I was three.
02:41My mother would sort of, like, send me up to the bedroom, lock me in the room, where
02:47I would have to pee in a bucket, be locked there all day with no food, no nothing.
02:51No food?
02:51No food, no nothing.
02:52Locked in a room?
02:53She came up this particular day, you know, the day that I was locked in the room, and
02:59she...
02:59I was sat by the window with the louvre window that opens, basically.
03:04And I was sat on the window ledge, you know, with my back to the wall.
03:08And she came in, she was definitely blinding at me and just went push out the window.
03:12She did not even come down to see if I was all right or anything.
03:15It's a second-story window, the kid's five.
03:17You injured your back and you injured your wrist.
03:20I read so much about you as a kid.
03:22I mean, that window story is bad enough.
03:24But she came to school one day as well, didn't she?
03:26She came up to the school.
03:27She literally grabbed all of my hair, dragged me down home to do her housework.
03:31How old were you?
03:33I was six at the time.
03:34You portray a horrible, horrible time.
03:37And at nine, because of this, she went to live with your gran, who's now deceased, Florence
03:42Blesser.
03:43But you say she was an amazing woman.
03:45She was.
03:46She was a lovely grandmother.
03:48She did her best, like, for me to make me part of her family.
03:52She was the one, you said, she was the mother that I never had.
03:56I only knew, yes.
03:58And you say that if she saw what has happened in the ensuing years, and actually more importantly
04:02where you're at now, Woodland, she would be turning in a grave.
04:05Grave, yeah.
04:06You go to your nans at nine, you must feel like the family outcast.
04:09So I want to bring it to now, really.
04:12For whatever reason, your mum, and I just want to make this point.
04:16I mean, people want a relationship with people who have treated them really badly.
04:22Why are you still interested in, is it just answers, or is it because she's your mum?
04:28No, I want the answers, Jeremy.
04:29But for 34 years, I've, you know, a long time, I wanted my mum in my life.
04:35She disappeared, didn't she, when you went to live with your nan as well?
04:38She disappeared.
04:39She left.
04:40You know, the only one time I did see her after she left was when my nana died.
04:44And then, when my nana died, she told me on the phone that I would have to deal with it.
04:49She came down three days later, told me not to appear at the funeral.
04:53So from three to nine, this woman treated you totally badly.
04:56Badly, yeah.
04:57You then go to live with your nan, who becomes your mother-like figure.
05:00This woman disappears for 30 years.
05:01The only time you do see her is when she bans you from the funeral, the lady that's brought you up.
05:05Yeah.
05:06Nowadays, you say, she'll send text messages calling you terrible things.
05:11Oh, I had a few texts about a month ago back, where they were sending me a call of me, prostitute and everything else.
05:19You say that your marriage is on the rocks because of this lady?
05:22My husband's left me because of it, because she threatened to stab him.
05:25She threatened to stab your husband?
05:27Yeah.
05:29You need her today to do what?
05:32I need her to tell me the truth and tell me why she treated me like she did.
05:36The violence, the abuse, and the ongoing abuse.
05:40Ongoing abuse, yes.
05:41What do you, do you imagine she would apologise for that, or?
05:45No, not really.
05:47Today's about answers, yeah?
05:49Yeah.
05:49I'm very honest, I appreciate that.
05:50Now, after the break, they will come face to face for the first time in a long time.
05:53Do not go anywhere.
05:54We're also going to meet Helen's husband, who asked for a divorce because, as she said, he cannot stand this lady.
05:58It's all about her, she's on next.
05:59I'm right back.
06:00Don't go anywhere.
06:00You are a liar.
06:02No, I am not a liar, Mother.
06:04I am not a liar.
06:06You are.
06:07Look at the letter.
06:08She ripped me, and she lived with me.
06:09I'm telling you how I felt.
06:12You need to give her some answers.
06:13Don't just sit there.
06:14All right?
06:14Because I will go for you.
06:17Your mother may be scared of you, boy, but I ain't.
06:21And I'm not going to sit down, because you're not going to be happy until your mother is six foot under the ground, and then you won't be bloody satisfied.
06:29You shouldn't have been the best parent anyway.
06:31Well, neither have you, mate.
06:32Better than you.
06:38Do you suspect your partner has been cheating on you?
06:40Maybe they've been acting suspiciously, and you're desperate to know the truth.
06:43Or perhaps it's you who's been accused of cheating, and you want to clear your name.
06:46Could a lie detector test save your relationship?
06:48If you're 16 or over, you want to be considered for our show.
06:51Text the word TALK TODAY with your name.
06:53633 34 is the number, and text costs 25 pence, plus one standard network message.
06:57You can call the team, 0901, it's 123456.
07:01Of course, costs no more than 26 pence from a BT landline.
07:04Now, calls from other networks may be higher, and from mobiles will be considerably more.
07:07Or go to the website for free.
07:09The address, itv.com, it's forward slash Jeremy Kyle.
07:12Thank you very much indeed.
07:19Welcome back to Before the Break, talking to Helen.
07:21You paint a terrible, terrible picture of your child, as you said, from the ages of three to nine.
07:25This woman would abuse you, lock you in a room, not feed you, push you out of a window.
07:29Of course, your back problems you have to this day would come to the school and drag you home by your hair,
07:34saying you come and do the cleaning.
07:35She never wanted you.
07:36At nine, you go and live with your nan, Florence, and you say this lady was a mother that I never had,
07:40and you say that, you know, this woman disappeared for 30 years, and despite all that she's done,
07:44even now she's abusing you, sending your text messages calling you the devil child,
07:48saying, I wish you were dead.
07:50She's threatened your husband so much so that he and you have separated.
07:53Today, despite what most people in this audience would think, because I wouldn't give her the time of day,
07:57you want answers from this lady.
07:58Let me tell you, this lady has a completely different story to tell.
08:00She thinks you are one big drama queen.
08:03She's on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
08:04Lynn is here.
08:14You are a liar.
08:15No, I am not a liar, Mother.
08:18I am not a liar.
08:20Look at the matter.
08:21She ripped me, and she ripped me.
08:23I'm telling you how I'm proud.
08:25And you know for damn fact that I'm dyslexic, so I can't write any letters.
08:29You live with me.
08:30But don't you give me that.
08:31I want the truth from you.
08:32You've been told, and you lived with me a year ago.
08:35No, I did not live with you a year ago.
08:38I saw you for the first time in 34 years.
08:41You're a liar.
08:42You're a liar.
08:43No, I'm not a liar.
08:44She says three to nine.
08:46Horrific mother.
08:47Locked her in her room, right?
08:49It's a lie.
08:49Pushed her out of a window.
08:51It's a lie.
08:51Then where did she go when she was nine?
08:53Why did she go and live with your mother?
08:54Helen needed a family, like her mum and her dad.
08:58Stable household, because she was playing up.
09:00And I wasn't at the time.
09:01Okay.
09:02So my mother took her, and my mother asked me, could I have full custody?
09:07Why didn't you see her for 30 years then?
09:09She says you ignored her for 30 years.
09:11You disappeared off the place of the earth.
09:12No, my mum had full custody of Helen.
09:15Did you see her?
09:15I used to go up with my mum and see her.
09:18But when I remarried, I moved with my husband.
09:22You never came up with my husband.
09:22Well, what age was she?
09:24She was, you're a liar.
09:26You come down to Bournemouth to see me with your nan.
09:28Hold on, hold on.
09:29How old was she when you got remarried and disappeared?
09:33Eleven.
09:34Well, I don't mean to be rude, but I thought I might just make the point.
09:37When you give birth to a child, love, whether you are with their father or not,
09:42or whether you find a new man, you don't actually abandon an 11-year-old
09:46and disappear off and ignore her, do you?
09:48No.
09:48Well, that's what you did.
09:51No, you left her with your mother.
09:53That's going to create a problem in her head.
09:55I'm trying to get the truth here.
09:56Jeremy, but the best thing is about it, she took three of them with her.
10:00There you are.
10:01She took two sisters and she took my brother with her and left me behind.
10:05Ask her, this is the point.
10:07I did not, Helen.
10:07Yes, you did.
10:08I remember it quite clearly.
10:10I did not, Helen.
10:10Yes, you did.
10:11So you didn't take Carl with you to live with your new husband?
10:14Yes, you did.
10:15I couldn't take you with me.
10:17You took the rest with you and you left me there to put up with everything.
10:21Because?
10:21Don't you think this hurts me?
10:23Because?
10:23You left me there.
10:24And before you left, you got your new husband to beat me, didn't you?
10:28No.
10:28Yes, you did.
10:29No, I didn't.
10:30Yes, you did.
10:30You sent Carl up to my grandmother's because you'd been there in the daytime, right?
10:35And you had had an argument with my grandmother and my grandmother turned around and told you
10:39it was both time you started treating me as a daughter.
10:42No.
10:43Yes, she did.
10:44I don't remember that.
10:45And you sent Carl up in the evening.
10:46I did not.
10:47She sent Carl up in the evening.
10:50You did.
10:50Right?
10:51And when I got down to your house, you turned around and said, wait until your father gets
10:54there.
10:54You're going to get beat egg.
10:56Three days later, after I took the beating from my dad, I took the beating from your new
11:00husband.
11:01No, you didn't.
11:02Yes, I did.
11:02With a lever about.
11:04No, you didn't.
11:04Oh, so it's all in my head, mother, is it?
11:07Yes, it is.
11:07I don't think so.
11:09Why is it all in her head?
11:10Why would she lie?
11:12Why would she make it up?
11:13I don't know, Jeremy.
11:14The point is, if you look at the picture, whatever is right and wrong, you favoured other kids
11:19over her and left her with a massive inferiority company.
11:21That's why she feels like the outcast, the black sheep.
11:23I did not favour my others after.
11:26But you took two with you.
11:28You did.
11:28If you'd taken her and Carla and left the other two, maybe it would have been them that
11:33had the complex.
11:34You've got to acknowledge.
11:35I'm not saying she hasn't lied or been a drama queen, but you left her and in her mind at
11:3911, you favoured the others.
11:41Do you understand that?
11:41No, I didn't, Jeremy, because.
11:44But you did.
11:44No, I didn't, Jeremy, because I went to court when I got divorced from her father, right?
11:50And the court, her dad just walked out.
11:57He didn't want to know anything.
11:58Listen, we have to be very careful.
11:59I'm just saying.
12:00No, that's fine, right?
12:01But she, as an 11-year-old, whatever the court said, hear me out, right?
12:04This is the point.
12:05This is the root cause, right?
12:07I mean, you've said some pretty horrific things, and we'll come to those in a minute, but I'm
12:10trying to acknowledge here, and everybody needs to understand this.
12:13The start of this is at 11, irrespective of courts or arguments or whatever you're saying
12:18now or text messages, she saw you disappear or go off with your new man when she was 11
12:24and take two of her siblings, and she was left behind.
12:27And however you dress it up, right, that is going to create in her mind, okay, look at
12:33it, jealousy, inferiority, whatever.
12:36You tell us, though, that she's a complete compulsive liar.
12:38You say, one of the most shocking things I've heard, you say she doesn't need a wheelchair,
12:42she's a con artist.
12:43She can walk.
12:44No, I can't.
12:45You can?
12:45How come you run up my stairs then, Ellen?
12:47Run up your stairs, really?
12:50Yeah, you did.
12:50At the time, I used to lift, Mother, and when I couldn't walk because my leg tits, this
12:54is the side, which I've had an operation, I've just been to the hospital, and they've just
12:58told me that my neck is severed.
13:01Anybody could snap it with a shot if they was to hit me the right way.
13:05You say that she makes stuff up.
13:06The audience need to understand that this girl, woman, threatened to petrol bomb your house.
13:12Yes, she did.
13:13No, I did not.
13:14You did.
13:15Yes, the police were called, weren't they?
13:16No, I did not.
13:16You did?
13:17Yes, the police was called.
13:19Because you threatened to petrol bomb my house.
13:21No, I did not.
13:23Yes, you did, Ellen.
13:23No, I did not.
13:24You did.
13:25No, I did not.
13:26You did, Helen.
13:27Why would I petrol bomb your house, Mother, when I can't even get right?
13:31Because, as another thing, Ellen, you're the one with a mobile wheelchair, not me.
13:37My own way?
13:38My own way?
13:39My own way?
13:40My own way?
13:41I've never had my own way, and I've never had you there to guide me, have I, Mother?
13:43Because you never.
13:44I don't want to remember if you're going to tell lies.
13:46Lies?
13:47You're the one that's telling lies, not me, my lover.
13:50Tell the truth.
13:51I'm telling the truth.
13:52Did you ban her from your mother's funeral?
13:54I didn't ban her from my mother's funeral.
13:55Yes, you did.
13:56I didn't.
13:57Yes, you did.
13:58I didn't.
13:59I'll tell you exactly what you did.
14:00You came down to my house.
14:02You came in from my garden gate.
14:04You knocked my three-year daughter across the path.
14:06No, I didn't.
14:07When she asked you, she said, are you my nanny?
14:11You said, I'm no nanny of yours.
14:13I did not.
14:14Yes, you did.
14:15No, I did not, Helen.
14:16Yes, you did.
14:17No.
14:18You're a liar.
14:19You are.
14:20You are.
14:21You are, mother.
14:22Because I can look you in the face and say this to you.
14:24How old is your daughter?
14:25How old is your daughter?
14:26How old is your daughter?
14:27My daughter's 24 now.
14:28You've never met her, have you?
14:29No.
14:30I've never met her at all.
14:31Why?
14:32That's your granddaughter.
14:33I don't know her, Jeremy.
14:34She'll make the effort to go and see all the other grandchildren, but she's never...
14:38See, that's another thing that's going to make her feel like the outcast.
14:41Can we bring it on to Derek?
14:42Derek is your estranged husband now.
14:44No, yes.
14:45You said, I did tell Derek I'd stab him, but it was in self-defence, that from her mother.
14:50What does that mean?
14:51What does that mean?
14:53Because if Derek threatens me with the Craigs and saying, oh, you know I belong to the
15:00Craig gang and what they can do...
15:01Sorry, the Craigs?
15:02No, no, no, no, mother.
15:03He belongs to the Craigs.
15:04Jeremy.
15:05Jeremy.
15:06Jeremy.
15:07Is that Ronnie and Reggie Craig?
15:08I don't know.
15:09I don't know.
15:10Jeremy.
15:11Jeremy.
15:12Jeremy.
15:13Jeremy.
15:14Jeremy.
15:15Jeremy.
15:16Jeremy.
15:17Let's get Del Boy who knows the Craigs on the show, lover.
15:18You're a liar.
15:19You're a liar.
15:20You're a liar.
15:21You're a liar.
15:22And what kind of woman are you to turn around and say you're going to stab me?
15:33What?
15:34Yes, because I'm not having you threaten me.
15:35You need to give her some answers.
15:36Not having you threaten me.
15:37You need to give her some answers.
15:38Don't just sit there.
15:39All right?
15:40Because I will go for you.
15:41Okay?
15:42Come on then, Mr McGue.
15:44Come on.
15:45Who are you?
15:47Get out, you little boy.
15:48Get out.
15:49You're out of your soul.
15:50You're out of your soul.
15:51Get out.
15:52Go back, please.
15:53Yeah?
15:54You're going to learn to tell the truth, girl.
15:55No, I'm telling the truth!
15:56For someone who didn't want to come on the show, you've got a lot to say for yourself.
15:59See?
16:00This is what we had last time, Jeremy.
16:01This is how she was.
16:03Because Derek stood up to her.
16:05No.
16:06Yes.
16:07He stood up to you.
16:08He stood up to you and you didn't like it.
16:10No, he didn't.
16:11Yes, he did.
16:12No, he didn't.
16:13Yes, he did.
16:14You told nothing but license, girls.
16:15It's about time you put the record straight.
16:17I think you told the truth.
16:19You told the truth.
16:20You told her the truth.
16:21You need to put this straight.
16:22So you are, hold on a second, you are her estranged husband.
16:25Right.
16:26Who apparently you're...
16:27Through her, I'm getting a divorce.
16:28Why is that?
16:29Because of all the abuse and all that.
16:31Yeah, but if you love somebody, don't you stick by him or have I missed the point?
16:34You've missed the point.
16:35I don't...
16:36What have I missed then?
16:37What has she done?
16:38She's been on the phone.
16:39She's threatened to stab me.
16:40She's thrown abuse across the phone.
16:41I shouldn't have to put up with that.
16:42Is that true?
16:43Is that true?
16:44No.
16:45And you're Carl, the favoured son who went to live with his mummy, yeah?
16:46Yeah.
16:47No.
16:48I went to live with my dad.
16:49You and she have an even worse relationship, it seems, than your mum and her.
16:50What's going on, Carl?
16:51Give me some...
16:52I don't understand this.
16:53Me, personally, I don't want nothing to do with her or him.
16:54Well, what are you doing on the show?
16:55Because all they do is lie.
16:56Yeah.
16:57Oh, really?
16:58Yes.
16:59Really?
17:00Really?
17:01Coming from you that tried to give my daughter drugs?
17:02Um...
17:03I don't lie!
17:04You give my daughter...
17:05Try to give my daughter drugs!
17:06Isn't it true that you tried to give her daughter at 14 years of age ecstasy?
17:07Yes or no?
17:08No.
17:09Yes.
17:10Liar!
17:11Liar!
17:12Liar!
17:13Liar!
17:14Liar!
17:15Liar!
17:16What's going on, Carl?
17:17What's going on, Carl?
17:18What's going on, Carl?
17:19Give me some...
17:20I don't understand this.
17:21Me, personally, I don't want nothing to do with her or him.
17:22Well, what are you doing on the show?
17:23Because all they do is lie.
17:24Well, really?
17:25Really?
17:26Coming from you that tried to give my daughter drugs?
17:27Liar!
17:28Liar!
17:29Liar!
17:30I will admit...
17:31Well, we'll have her...
17:32You are a bomb, liar!
17:33I will admit...
17:34Well, just get on with it.
17:35I used to take drugs.
17:37Yes.
17:38Did you ever offer...
17:39Never done.
17:40Did you ever offer the daughter any?
17:41I don't know her daughter.
17:43Liar!
17:44Look me full square in the face.
17:46Have you ever given her daughter or offered her daughter drugs?
17:48No.
17:49She's coming out next.
17:50Good.
17:51It's interesting, isn't it?
17:52I want to know what, seriously, what is at the root cause?
17:56I was...
17:57I thought we were getting somewhere, right?
17:58I thought this was because...
18:00Problem she had in the marriage.
18:01She went off.
18:02She married again.
18:03I understand I was wrong.
18:04You went off with her.
18:05But she was left and two of the siblings went.
18:07But here's a big question, everybody.
18:09If he didn't go with his mum...
18:10Thanks, Bex.
18:11If he didn't go with his mum, and you didn't, but the other two, why isn't he bitter and
18:16twisted and hating his mother?
18:18Why is he having a good relationship with her, then?
18:20Exactly.
18:21No!
18:22That's the question!
18:23Right!
18:24That's just the answer.
18:25That's because he was with mother when she left!
18:27He wasn't!
18:28Yes, he was!
18:29Would you acknowledge that she would have a gripe because she was left behind?
18:32Yes or no?
18:33No.
18:34You are nothing but an intention-seeker.
18:39Am I really?
18:40Yes!
18:41Am I really?
18:42Well, how come I'm tension-seeking, Cole?
18:44Because at the end of the day, I've had to do everything on my own.
18:48I've never asked her for anything, or you, or anybody else.
18:52So how can I be a tension-seeker?
18:54You say that all of this is making your mum ill.
18:56That's what you've really come here to say, right?
18:58It is.
18:59Where do you think she is?
19:00What do you think it's doing to her?
19:01You do not care what you are doing to this family.
19:03All your mother wanted Helen on the scene for...
19:05Mr McGee, you can just shut up and listen to me for a change, all right?
19:08No, I don't need to listen to you.
19:10She's talking to him.
19:12I'm talking to her, not you.
19:13Then talk properly.
19:14Then you talk properly, then.
19:16Then don't talk.
19:17You go even further and you say, not only is she a liar,
19:21an attention-seeker, she was horrible to your nan,
19:24and the truth is your nan had a horrible time with her as well.
19:27Yes.
19:28She did.
19:29Oh, that's funny.
19:30That's really funny, that is.
19:32That's really funny, because I remember...
19:33It's not funny, Helen.
19:34...I'm Frank coming down my house.
19:36She told me when my nan died in my arms.
19:39What?
19:40In the hospital at Mount Gold.
19:42Right, she spoke to me on the phone for the first time,
19:45and she turned round and she said that your nan would want you to deal with that.
19:49Three days later, after I arranged everything,
19:52she came down, knocked my daughter across the garden path
19:54and accused me of having my nan's money.
19:56Can you explain to me?
19:57And she told me not to go to the funeral.
19:59Okay, I've got one question for you.
20:01Yes, you did!
20:02Well, why wasn't I right there then?
20:04I was told to stay away.
20:05You're a born liar.
20:06I never ever want to see you again.
20:07Carl, why has your mother never seen her daughter?
20:1024 years of age.
20:12That's weird.
20:13I don't know.
20:14No.
20:15It's like...
20:16Do you honestly...
20:17You're telling her she's putting all this on?
20:18Yeah.
20:19For what?
20:20Your...
20:21In my mind, you're a looney tune girl.
20:25Am I really?
20:26Yeah.
20:27Was your mother ever violent to you?
20:29Because you dealt drugs to kids, didn't you?
20:31I will honestly admit, Jeremy, if we stepped out in line as kids,
20:36we would get a clip around the ear.
20:38Ha!
20:39Which is fair enough.
20:40No.
20:41Wait.
20:42My stepfather, bless his soul, he never raised his hand to us.
20:47Fair enough, my dad would give us a clout if we stepped out in line.
20:52Don't worry.
20:53Around the back of his teeth.
20:54But, you know, you've got a correct kid, don't you?
20:56Derek, you believe absolutely, but I go back to something that I don't understand.
21:00If you love this woman and you believe every word, why are you divorcing her?
21:03Because of what her mother's done.
21:05Surely she needs you more than anything.
21:07She does, and I...
21:08Why do you blame me?
21:09I...
21:10I...
21:11Just shut up.
21:12I didn't do anything.
21:13Just shut up.
21:14I'm talking to Jeremy, not you.
21:15You don't like her very much, do you?
21:16No.
21:17I still support her.
21:18Right.
21:19If she needs me, I'll go there.
21:20Right?
21:21And is...
21:22Is your daughter...
21:23Is that her father?
21:24No.
21:25Right, okay.
21:26I'm going to go to a break.
21:27Your daughter is 24.
21:28She supports you absolutely.
21:29I find it astonishing, despite the fact this family has split, that you've never,
21:32ever seen your 24-year-old granddaughter.
21:34I haven't.
21:35No, no.
21:36But most people would look at that and go, that's another reason why they feel on the
21:39outside here.
21:40I don't know.
21:41Have you got kids?
21:42Yes.
21:43Hold on.
21:44Have you seen his kids?
21:45Yes.
21:46But you haven't seen her daughter, who's 24?
21:47No.
21:48I haven't seen her daughter.
21:49Well, put that right, because she's on this stage next.
21:53Her name's Emma.
21:54She's never, ever met her grandmother.
21:55I'm back after this.
21:56Do not go anywhere.
21:57And you, you did offer me drugs.
21:58You're a racist.
21:59You're an alcoholic.
22:00You're a druggie.
22:01And I'll tell you what, you ever come near me, and there will be serious consequences.
22:06Your mother may be scared of you, boy, but I ain't.
22:07And I'm not going to sit down, because you're not going to be happy until your mother is
22:13six foot under the ground, and then you won't be bloody satisfied.
22:16You're still.
22:17You've been the best parent, anyway.
22:18Well, neither have you, mate.
22:19Better than you!
22:20Hello, everyone, Anthony.
22:21Welcome back before the break, talking to, well, a feuding family.
22:37You know, we have, you know, Helena came out and she said, my mum was horrific.
22:42From three to nine, I went to live with my nan.
22:44Even to this day, that violence is in my mind.
22:47She disappears for 30 years.
22:48She takes other siblings.
22:49She doesn't want to know.
22:50She's ruined my marriage.
22:51She's never seen my daughter, who's on stage next.
22:53You come out and go, this girl is a fantasist.
22:55Yes, I got remarried.
22:56You can't explain why you left her behind, though, except that you said your mother had
22:59full custody.
23:00Your son, Carl, comes out, and you say, absolutely, this girl is an attention seeker.
23:04This is all lies.
23:05This is a family stuck down the middle.
23:07But I still, I mean, I don't want the audience to think, I still find it extraordinary that
23:10you've never seen her 24-year-old daughter.
23:12You're about to.
23:13Her name's Emma.
23:14She's on the Jeremy Carl show that way.
23:17My mum's a liar, is she?
23:24I remember you pushing me across the...
23:26I push you right at all, Emma.
23:28And I remember when I seen you beating her in the front room.
23:31I've never beat her.
23:32I was screaming for you to get her up, and you didn't get her up.
23:35No, Emma.
23:36I didn't know.
23:37And you, you did offer me drugs.
23:38You're a racist.
23:39You're an alcoholic.
23:40You're a druggie.
23:41And I'll tell you what, you ever come near me, and there will be serious consequences.
23:44Because you were the one who was telling me, oh, don't be with a b****.
23:48Everything like that, excuse my language.
23:50But you did.
23:51So don't ever come out here and say it's my mum's focused in.
23:55She's worth thousands of you to.
23:57I'll tell you.
23:58You're nothing but scum.
24:00You really are.
24:01You're nothing but scum.
24:02I really hate you.
24:03And I never ever want you in my life.
24:05And I don't miss you in my life.
24:07Because I'm a lot stronger person without you in it.
24:09And my great-grand didn't hate her at all.
24:11My great-grand, I was the apple of her eyes.
24:14So she loved her because of me.
24:16Do you understand that?
24:17She gave me everything.
24:18Why are you laughing?
24:19You've just been called a wife-beating alcoholic racist who gave a 14-year-old ecstasy.
24:23Did you give her drugs?
24:24No.
24:25Did he?
24:26He offered me, yes, he did.
24:27Ecstasy?
24:28He offered me.
24:29Not a chance.
24:30Oh, so other drugs.
24:31Wait, wait.
24:32So other drugs, yeah?
24:33What did you offer her?
24:34I will admit.
24:35Oh, Josh, what did you offer her?
24:37I will admit.
24:38She smoked cannabis.
24:39Did you offer her cannabis?
24:40No.
24:41Do you believe he offered her cannabis?
24:43I sure as hell do.
24:44I don't...
24:45Are you racist as well?
24:46No.
24:47Yes.
24:48Yes.
24:49You're very calm, though, aren't you?
24:50I am calm.
24:51Yeah.
24:52Because...
24:53I wonder what you're like inside, though.
24:54I'm a lot better than all three of them put together.
24:57Yeah, yeah.
24:58In your dreams, mate.
24:59You reckon you are?
25:00You're nothing but...
25:01What's all this, Mr McGee?
25:04That means you're a nobody.
25:06Let me ask you, because you've come out and you've made those points, right?
25:09Uh-huh.
25:10You're saying he offered you drugs?
25:11Yes, he did.
25:12That you gave us two examples.
25:13You say that you saw your grandmother beating your mother up.
25:17How old were you?
25:19I was about four or five, something like that.
25:21You say you came down the stairs.
25:22What did you say?
25:23Like, very...
25:24I was very young.
25:25I mean, when I came down the stairs, I went into the lounge and opened the door, and there
25:30was my mum, and there was her.
25:33To me, that was her, you know, and just hitting her with a belt several times.
25:37Is your mother a fantasist, or is your grandmother somebody who's never really been there for her mother?
25:42She's never been there for her, never.
25:43Why do you think that is?
25:44I mean, we've heard the story about her two other siblings went to live.
25:46Why do you think that is?
25:47To be honest, I've never known the answer, and I've wanted to know the answer.
25:51Why has she treated her so differently?
25:53Can you answer that?
25:54What is so wrong with this woman?
25:56No, no, no.
25:57This woman has raised six kids.
25:59No, no, no.
26:00You've just called her Gemma, by the way, and her name's Emma.
26:02Emma.
26:03Emma.
26:04Emma.
26:05She wants to know what, and I've tried to ask you calmly, we're going to bring your
26:09mate Christine in a minute, can I just ask you this, can you not, not you, not anybody
26:13else, when you got remarried and went off, why taking two, why did you leave her behind?
26:19Because I couldn't take Helen with me.
26:21Why?
26:22Because my mother had full custody of Helen, and my mother said to me when she took her,
26:29I've got full custody of Helen.
26:31But why would she say that, if apparently, according to you, she was a, she was a complete
26:35nightmare, and your mother hated her?
26:37But if you was any decent mother, I'm sorry, but any mother out there would say it.
26:41I haven't got no children myself, but if you was any decent mother, you'd never ever let
26:45that child go.
26:46All right.
26:47You understand that?
26:48All right.
26:49All right.
26:50Let's just bring Christine, your name's friend.
26:52She doesn't seem to be able to answer that.
26:54You were shouting out earlier.
26:55What's your take on this story, love?
26:57Um, I think it's all from Helen.
26:59Oh.
27:00Well, why is that then, Christine?
27:02Because why did, when me and my mother had an argument, right, in her house, why was
27:06it, instead of you seeing to my mother, you came up to me in the bedroom?
27:10Yes.
27:11Well then, and you said, I know Helen, I know how she's treated you.
27:15You, you, you, you, you're, you're just saying lies for her, Christine, because she's
27:19filled with it.
27:20You got me convinced.
27:22I got you convinced, did I?
27:24I don't need to convince anybody.
27:26I tell it as it is every day of my life, and I've had to live with that.
27:31The trouble is you, Chris, you're scared of her.
27:33What?
27:34She threatens you.
27:35She threatens you.
27:36She threatens you.
27:37Yes, she threatens you.
27:38Your own daughters don't even like that, do they?
27:41I would only say this, you haven't brought much to the table, love, in terms of facts.
27:45I mean, we've listened to what you've said, and I acknowledge the fact you've only known
27:48her for four years.
27:49Um, the one thing about the Kyle Show is conflict resolution.
27:52Um, is this a family that can be put back together?
27:57You, you told my team I don't want anything to do with her.
27:59She's an attention seeker, and she will always be like that.
28:02You've said the same.
28:03What's your situation?
28:04Because you wouldn't have been here, sweetheart, unless you wanted some sort of resolve.
28:07I just wanted the truth, Jeremy.
28:09I honestly wanted the truth, but it looks like I'm never, ever going to get that, does
28:13it?
28:14And you can shut your mouth before you open it.
28:16You're a little bit too smug for me.
28:17Yeah.
28:18You're a little bit too, you're too good to be true, you are.
28:21I would think that there's right and wrong on both sides here.
28:24And you would acknowledge and hope, I think, if you watch a show like this, or do a show
28:27like this, that, you know, people would come on and they'd admit where they'd gone wrong
28:30and they'd try and make it right.
28:31You're saying you're not interested, right?
28:33No, I'll always love Ellen, and I've told Ellen that.
28:36If Ellen doesn't want contact...
28:37Well, you'll only love me, mother, while I'm giving you money.
28:39That's fine.
28:40You'll only love me, while I'm giving you money.
28:41There's not much passion in you, though, love, is there?
28:42How can you love her if you never come round to see the girl?
28:45You don't, you know, you don't even phone her.
28:47I'm duty-bound to ask this.
28:49What's that, Ellen?
28:50Do you want to sit with your daughter and Graham and try and talk this through,
28:52or do you want to go your separate way with your son?
28:54I'll sit with Ellen.
28:55Yeah.
28:56But not with him.
28:57What about you?
28:58Pardon, Mr McKay?
28:59Who are you?
29:00You heard.
29:01Who are you?
29:02Well, I won't sit with you.
29:03Can I tell you something?
29:05He's a better man than what you'll ever be.
29:08A better man than what you'll ever be.
29:09A better man than what you'll ever be.
29:10Because he will stand his ground.
29:12You have just lied to get your way through life.
29:15Well, I'll tell you what.
29:17Can you honestly sit there and tell me every bit you've come out with on this stage?
29:24You're a liar.
29:25It's not.
29:26It actually happened.
29:27And I'll look you straight in the face until you extract the apple.
29:30I have got to wrap this on their own.
29:32Not you.
29:33Not you and not you.
29:34Do you and you want to sit with Graham together and separately?
29:37Yes or no after this show?
29:39Lynn?
29:40I'll sit with Ellen if Ellen wants to.
29:43Ellen?
29:44Are you going to tell me the truth?
29:46Because that's all I want from you.
29:48Ellen, I've said I'll sit with you.
29:50Stop.
29:51We will put you and you after this show with Graham.
29:55We will do what we always do.
29:57Okay?
29:58We will try and resolve it.
29:59But my advice will be very simple.
30:01You can bang your head against a brick wall sometimes.
30:03And in some instances you don't get the answers and then you walk away.
30:06Give them a round of applause.
30:07Thank you very much indeed to them.
30:13As always good luck to them.
30:15We will keep you updated now.
30:16My next guest today, Brett, refuses to leave his mother alone with his 19-month-old son
30:19as he claims she was a rubbish mum to him.
30:21But does his alleged bad childhood warrant him stopping access to her grandson?
30:25It's a big day for him.
30:26Brett is on the Jeremy Kyle Show that way.
30:28Let's talk about that childhood.
30:37Before we get into that detail, this is about you and your mum, Liz.
30:41She's here today.
30:42You have major issues with this woman.
30:45You've said, I've got a son now.
30:47I've been in a relationship for a long time.
30:49I'm very happy.
30:50But I don't want this child anywhere near this lady because she was a terrible, terrible mother.
30:55What do you mean by that, pal?
30:57When I was younger, I must have been about three years old, she did hit me with bamboo sticks, anything really.
31:02She what?
31:03She hit you with bamboo sticks?
31:05You told my team, all I remember is this woman hitting me, attacking me.
31:11I was scared to go home.
31:12Yeah.
31:13Genuinely.
31:14Yeah.
31:15In terms of schooling, did she support you through school?
31:19I mean, I heard this terrible thing about she wouldn't cook for you.
31:22No.
31:23Well, I managed to cook a roast dinner at the age of six years old.
31:26You had to cook and fend for yourself.
31:28Yeah.
31:29She was on drugs when you were growing up.
31:31Yeah.
31:32What sort of drugs, pal?
31:33Well, she was on marijuana, speed.
31:35So you have a childhood that was based around a woman who was more interested in doing those things than being a mother to you.
31:42Yeah.
31:43You tended to fend for yourself.
31:46In terms of the relationship, as you grew, before we get onto your son and where you're at now,
31:52did you tell her as you grew up?
31:55Did she just diss you?
31:56What happened?
31:57I know you left at quite a young age.
31:59Yeah, I left at the age of 15.
32:00Why was that?
32:01Because I just got a bit annoyed of her keep on hitting me constantly.
32:05She literally was physical to you the whole time.
32:07Yeah.
32:08I read belts, slippers, belts on the body, slippers, metal goods, bamboo sticks, anything she would batter you.
32:16Yeah.
32:17You think this isn't right.
32:19Your first girlfriend, Zoe, you moved out and you actually moved in with her parents.
32:24Yeah.
32:25What was that like?
32:26Well, it was all right, really.
32:28I mean, I read something that Zoe said that when you first went there, your body was covered in bruises and it was a horrible, horrible time for you.
32:36You and she have stayed together.
32:38You and she have a young son.
32:39Yeah.
32:40What's your relationship like with your mother now?
32:42Don't talk to her.
32:43Why are we here?
32:44Well, just to get the answers, why did she hit me for and why ain't she a good grandparent to me, 19-month-old little one?
32:51That's my problem, I think.
32:52I mean, I'm just being straight with you.
32:54I think it's absolutely right that you want answers and I think most people in this situation, you know, we would sit and we would go,
32:59well, if a woman's done that to me, why would I want anything to do with her?
33:02Just sling her hook.
33:03But she's your mum.
33:04Yeah.
33:05What I don't understand, I sort of, I acknowledge, is that you're saying, I've got a kid now.
33:09I don't want that kid anywhere near this woman.
33:11No.
33:12I don't want to be.
33:13I mean, you know, I understand that.
33:14So what are you looking for from her today?
33:17What do you want her to say?
33:18You want her to acknowledge the past?
33:20Well, yeah.
33:21Because every time I try to ask her why, she just says, well, leave the past in the past, look on to the future.
33:27Does she want to be involved with her grandson?
33:29Well, I don't know, to be honest.
33:31What do you mean you don't know?
33:32Because she don't bother with him.
33:34She only lives five minutes around the corner from us.
33:36She don't even come down, say hello to him, or ring up, just to ask how we live.
33:40And how old is he now?
33:41Nineteen months.
33:42Nearly two.
33:43Nearly two.
33:44If I said to you, and I said in the introduction, would you leave your kid with her, what would you say?
33:48I'd say no.
33:49Should we get the answers?
33:50No.
33:51I'm always amazed that people never get them until they come on the show.
33:53Liz is on the Jeremy Carl Show.
33:54That way, ladies and gentlemen.
33:55Liz, welcome to the show.
34:05Can I say one thing to the audience?
34:06This happens almost every single day.
34:08People hear the first side of a story, and that in their mind is the truth.
34:12This man says, boy, whatever, my mum hit me from the age of three to 13.
34:16Anything she could get hands on, metal cups, slippers, belts on the body, bamboo sticks of 15.
34:21I went to my girlfriend's parents because I was battered.
34:24What's the truth?
34:25You were never battered.
34:26Yes, I was.
34:27No, you weren't, Brett.
34:28Yes, I was.
34:29Okay, whatever you say.
34:30So I didn't go to school and, for instance, don't get social services involved then, no?
34:34That wasn't when you were three, my son.
34:36No, I was 13.
34:37That was 14 years of age.
34:3913, actually.
34:40No, 13.
34:41You went to school, and you said to the school teacher that I battered you.
34:46Yeah, because you did.
34:47And then the social services came up to my house, they saw your two brothers, then they saw you,
34:53and what did they say?
34:54No further action.
34:55Well, no, you practically told them to do one and close the door on their face.
34:59Let's hear your side of this story.
35:00Did you batter your son?
35:01No.
35:02Do you smoke drugs?
35:03I used to.
35:04You still do?
35:05No, I do not.
35:06Yes, you do.
35:07No, I don't, Brett.
35:08Were you?
35:09I mean, you're very calm, and that's great.
35:11I mean, he's painting a pretty horrific picture of you.
35:13No, no.
35:14In your mind, if that's not true, why would he do that?
35:15I wouldn't have the faintest idea.
35:17Well, can I be really honest with you, as that's what this is about?
35:20Why don't you damn well ask him?
35:21Why don't you both have the conversation patently?
35:23Because we've tried to have these conversations, Jeremy.
35:26Yeah, and all you tell me is, look, well, the past is the past, look for the future.
35:30But I'm sorry, I'll talk to myself at night asking why.
35:33Look at your son.
35:35So why don't you come to me before?
35:38Because I shouldn't have to keep on running to you.
35:40You're five minutes around the corner.
35:42Excuse me?
35:43It's a bit more than five minutes around the corner.
35:45Why is there a blockage between the two of you?
35:48That's what we're talking about.
35:49That's because he has put the blockage there.
35:51You said to my team, he needs to grow up.
35:53He's got a bad attitude.
35:54He does need to grow up.
35:55Well, I'm sorry.
35:56I've got a 19-month-old son.
35:57He has got a bad attitude.
35:58And I am perfectly fine of growing up.
35:59But then when Joshua was first born...
36:02You smoked the cannabis around him in the front room.
36:05Yes, you did.
36:06Never, never, never.
36:07But then what about you when you were smoking the cannabis as well?
36:09Yes, but then what?
36:10Well, maybe the fact he smoked cannabis, love, was because you smoked it and he learnt it from you.
36:14And where I come from, what the hell is a mother doing smoking cannabis anywhere?
36:17Have I missed the point?
36:18What?
36:19Why are you smoking cannabis then?
36:21I don't smoke it now.
36:22Yes, you do.
36:23But you did when he was growing up.
36:25Yes, maybe I did.
36:26Well, it's hardly good...
36:27I wasn't hurting nobody.
36:29But if he knew that...
36:30No, but he was just inhaling it.
36:31Yeah, but when you used to go down your mates?
36:34Yeah, but you used to smoke it in the house around your kids.
36:36What mates?
36:37Hello?
36:38Jeremy Kyle Show.
36:39Did you smoke it in the house around the kids?
36:40No, I did not.
36:41Never, ever.
36:42Would you inhale it then?
36:43I wouldn't know, because he never did.
36:44But you've said that since you came out.
36:45I wouldn't know.
36:46Where does this all come from?
36:49What is he...
36:50Where is the anger?
36:51Where are the accusations?
36:52Where's the angst coming from?
36:54I don't know.
36:55Well, why don't you ask him?
36:57I've tried to ask him...
36:58Ask him now!
36:59Ask him now!
37:00Ask him now!
37:01But then he puts the barrier up and he says, well, as far as I'm concerned, you can go drop
37:06down dead.
37:07You say that to your own mother?
37:08Yeah, because she's not the perfect mother.
37:10Oh, it's interesting.
37:11It's interesting.
37:12You told my team, just to flip this as we try and do, that he is the abusive one.
37:15He is.
37:16He hit puberty and he became a pain in the backside.
37:18He did.
37:19Tell us some examples.
37:20He did.
37:21At times you shouted your mouth forfeit me and you raised your fist to me.
37:24Yeah, but I never laid a finger on you.
37:25Yes, you did.
37:26You raised your fist to me.
37:27Come on, name a date.
37:28Name a date.
37:29Name a date.
37:30I let a finger.
37:31You laid a lot of the blame at the door of Zoe.
37:34You say that when he got into a relationship and discovered all of that, he changed and
37:38he became this aggressive bully and he became opinionated.
37:41There wasn't really an issue before.
37:43He started making his...
37:44There wasn't an issue.
37:45I'm telling you what she said.
37:46There wasn't an issue when he was growing up.
37:48We were really, really close when he was growing up.
37:51He said he had to cook for himself.
37:52Because you never cooked.
37:53Yeah, all right.
37:54No, you was more interested in on Facebook and, for instance, doing...
37:56Facebook didn't exist 15 years ago.
37:59Even I know that.
38:0015 years ago.
38:01No, but you're too much interested in doing speed, though, innit?
38:04Don't swear.
38:05Don't swear? You're no mother of mine, anyway.
38:07I have never, ever touched that.
38:09You didn't sell most of the household stuff for speed, no?
38:12No, I didn't.
38:12So you've never taken speed?
38:14No, I haven't.
38:14You say, you said I was appalled when he went off and had this kid with Zoe.
38:19You say that their relationship is quite aggressive, she's quite controlling.
38:23You worry about this grandson.
38:24Now, the flip side, again, is he says, which doesn't make sense to anybody in this audience, right?
38:28He says, I had a terrible child, and she was awful.
38:32I don't want her anywhere near my son.
38:35She won't have anything to do with my son.
38:37When you had raised with Zoe, where was the first place you came to?
38:42My house.
38:43Well, yeah, I also would have been in a carpool box.
38:45Hold on a second.
38:46So you went back to a woman who beat you up and is the useless mother and takes drugs the minute you had a body with your bird, yeah?
38:51Well, that stacks up, doesn't it?
38:53Zoe and Joshua used to come around and sleep the night, three nights a week.
38:57But then you had a flea in your ear, and what did you do?
39:01You stopped me from seeing that, boy.
39:03Well, yeah, because you slept on a vacation.
39:06But it's all right for when you want something.
39:08Mum, have you got some money I could borrow?
39:10I need money to go on holiday with.
39:12Why would you go around to her house with your kid if she's such a horrific human being when your relationship's going wrong?
39:20Answer it.
39:21Well, I haven't been around her name for the past couple of months.
39:23But two months ago, you said this woman didn't cook, she didn't do anything, she beat you, she was horrible.
39:30Really?
39:30Yeah, and I will do lie detectors for it, because she didn't do anything.
39:34Why are you here today, Liz?
39:35What do you want?
39:36You want to see this grandchild?
39:37I want regular access to Joshua.
39:40Well, you wouldn't have an air.
39:41There we go.
39:42Well, because at the end of the day...
39:43Sure you haven't got a chip on your shoulder, you're not hacked off about something from the past, you're just scoring cheap points.
39:48Don't use the kid as a weapon.
39:49Who is Sharon?
39:50My sister.
39:51Sharon's on the Jeremy Carl Show that way.
39:53You...
39:59Shut up.
40:00No, I won't shut up.
40:01Sit down.
40:01Your mother may be scared of you, boy, but I ain't.
40:04And I'm not going to sit down, because you're not going to be happy until your mother is six foot under the ground, and then you won't be bloody satisfied.
40:12Are you showing up?
40:13You haven't been the best parent anyway.
40:15Well, neither have you, mate.
40:16Better than you.
40:17Really?
40:18Yeah.
40:18Really?
40:18Yeah.
40:19Bring it on, boy.
40:20Bring it on.
40:21At least none of my kids are in the house.
40:22Because I'm not afraid of you.
40:24I said I'm...
40:24Shut up.
40:25Your mother, you always turn to your mother when nothing goes right your way.
40:29You're jealous.
40:30You're a spoiled little brat, and you're not happy until you make that woman there turn.
40:36She's under the doctors for you.
40:39Oh, she...
40:40Yeah, I'm...
40:40You always go to your mother.
40:42At least I don't lie.
40:43No?
40:43No.
40:43You're lying now.
40:45What says you about when you had cancer?
40:47You're lying now.
40:48Let Jeremy see the true side of you, brat.
40:50Yeah, that's fine.
40:51That's fine.
40:52Sharon, welcome to the show.
40:53You say, um...
40:55This guy plays his mother.
40:57You say she...
40:58He does.
40:58He said she didn't cook.
41:00She did.
41:01I've never seen her do that.
41:03She said, the minute puberty happened, that he found himself a bird, he became this pain
41:07in the backside.
41:08He only uses and abuses me when it suits him.
41:10That's right.
41:11And actually, in essence, I'm all right when he wants something, and then the rest of the
41:14time, you ain't seen your kid, and you're a waste of space.
41:16That's right.
41:16That's my issue with this.
41:17That's right.
41:17If you're telling the truth and she's telling the truth, why has he got this shit?
41:21Why is he saying these things?
41:22Why does he feel like this?
41:23Because...
41:24Nobody knows.
41:26Why do you feel like this?
41:28Well, because my mum...
41:29She can't...
41:30Come on, come on.
41:33Come on.
41:38I've got to be really honest with you, Brett, because I've done this a long, long, long
41:40time, right?
41:42And I have met some pretty...
41:43I have always been...
41:44Pretty...
41:45Give me a sec, love.
41:47I've met some pretty useless parents, right?
41:50Maybe I'm missing the point or I'm getting old.
41:52She doesn't look to me like a useless mother at all.
41:54I don't know what the audience thinks.
41:56Maybe she's made mistakes, and certainly smoking cannabis can't be condoned, can it?
42:00But what concerns me about this story is that when it goes wrong with your bird, you run
42:04around to the mother, and then a few weeks later, or months or days, you say, you're a horrific
42:08mother, you beat me, you didn't feed me.
42:10I ain't allowing you to see the kid.
42:12What's your gripe with your mother, Brett?
42:14Truthfully.
42:15What's your gripe?
42:17What are you really hacked off about?
42:19Tell me.
42:25Take three minutes and think about it, because the only way this is ever going to be issued...
42:28Listen, I'm telling you, I'll come and get you, but I'm telling you this and now, right?
42:31You think in that pod what you've got against your mother, and we will do that.
42:35We're back.
42:36Brett's partner is here, Zoe, the mother to their child.
42:38She says she's here today with some home truths for Liz.
42:41We're back after this.
42:41Don't go anywhere.
42:42And she has sat there and said it to my face that she had hit him with bamboo sticks.
42:46So she's admitted, yeah?
42:48Yep.
42:48Right, come on, let's do this.
42:50We're going to do it right now.
42:51Come on out here.
42:51Go.
42:51We're both of you.
42:53Come on, come on.
42:53No, I wouldn't have it.
43:03Hello, everyone.
43:03Welcome back backstage with Brett.
43:05Got very upset for the break.
43:06Girlfriend Zoe is here as well.
43:08What is it about your mother?
43:09Because I have to make the point, you look at me.
43:12If she is the devil incarnate, as you keep saying, she beat you, she didn't cook for you, she didn't care for you.
43:19When you barneyed with her, nobody who's seen that would take a kid around there for three days.
43:24And you've done that regularly.
43:25That is what she is saying.
43:26What is your problem with your mother?
43:28Well, she's just a compulsive lawyer.
43:31You can't come out here.
43:33Zoe, help me out.
43:33She can't come out and say she doesn't want to see the grandkid.
43:36No, no, no.
43:37She wants to see Joshua.
43:38I'll give her that.
43:39Then why won't you let her?
43:40No, we will let her and she cannot deny it.
43:43I have run her, I have text, and we have said, I'll meet here, and I've gone up there.
43:47Then what is the issue, Zoe?
43:49Because she beat him and she has sat there and said it to my face that she had hit him with bamboosy.
43:53So she's admitted, yeah?
43:55Yeah.
43:55Right, come on, let's do this.
43:57Just, look, we're going to do it right now.
43:58Come on out here, go.
43:59Come on, come on, come on.
44:01Mate, the only way we will resolve this is if you and your mother front each other out.
44:06You're not going to get anywhere.
44:07We need to get the sort of Josh's head.
44:08Yeah, you came here for answers.
44:09Now get out there, come on, go.
44:10Come on, round of applause.
44:12What's that step, darling?
44:17Have you ever told her that you hit him?
44:19Pardon?
44:20Have you ever told her that you hit him when he was a kid?
44:22Yeah, I did used to slap him.
44:24Slap him.
44:24No, bamboosy, you admitted it to me, and you can't deny it.
44:28I hit him once.
44:29Why did you hit him?
44:30When you got the three of you boys messing and...
44:33Yeah, but weapons isn't the answer.
44:36...pursing at me and this, that and the other.
44:38I was bringing you three up on my flipping home.
44:40Yeah, but that's your problem, Mel.
44:42You shouldn't have cheated on my dad.
44:43I didn't cheat on your dad.
44:45Oh, no, I did not.
44:46Now we're getting there, aren't we?
44:48Oh, I did not cheat on your father.
44:50No way, Jose.
44:52Do you blame your mum for hers and your dad's relationship breaking up?
44:57Yes or no?
44:58Well, yeah, I think she shouldn't have cheated on him.
44:59So we're there.
45:00I did not cheat on your dad.
45:01Yes, you did.
45:02It takes two people to make a marriage work, my friend, and two people to mess it up.
45:06You can only blame your mother for the things that she did.
45:08You cannot blame her for the whole situation.
45:11That is wrong, and that will never get better unless you two have that conversation.
45:17Do you honestly think that this woman is going to hit your child?
45:22Look me full square in the face.
45:23I would have put it past her.
45:25Oh, Brett.
45:26I don't believe it.
45:27Sorry.
45:28Well, don't, I know definitely.
45:29And I have verbally gone for more people than you've had hot dinners.
45:32But let me tell you, I don't believe it for a second.
45:34I believe this is about a boy who saw his parents split up, who's had that to carry around for a long time,
45:41and who's blaming the only person, and you need to stand up and be counted here,
45:46the only person who's around, because the other one isn't.
45:49Because if he was around, you'd be giving him grief.
45:50She's getting the whole lot.
45:51Don't you agree with that, Zoe?
45:53Yes.
45:54This needs to be put to bed.
45:55Brett, the only way, right, this will be dealt with long term is if you and she lock horns in and you get this done, right?
46:03Zoe, you go that way a second.
46:05Sharon, you go that way.
46:06Thank you very much, Steve.
46:06Give him a round of applause.
46:07Sit there.
46:08Sit there.
46:09The other thing, the other thing about this show, which never ceases to amaze me,
46:16is people, despite all their angst and their anger and all that, wouldn't be here unless they wanted to sort this.
46:20Look at me.
46:23Tell her how you felt when the relationship with her and your dad went wrong.
46:27Tell her.
46:28Hello.
46:29I felt like...
46:30But how do you think I felt, Brett?
46:36It's got to work both ways, Mother.
46:39Eh?
46:41Come here.
46:42Hey.
46:43Look at me.
46:54Brett.
46:55She can only put right what she did or what she didn't do.
47:00I can only put right if you let me put it right, Brett.
47:02That's true.
47:04And you wouldn't be unless you wanted to.
47:05Tell me what you want me to do.
47:08Well, treat Joshua the same as you do the other two.
47:11I do, my love.
47:12Listen.
47:14All sorts of kids go through divorce and all sorts of kids are affected by that divorce, OK?
47:19But it's not all her fault.
47:21Some of it is, and that she will acknowledge.
47:24As when you have a Barney, some of it is your fault and some of it is Zoe's.
47:27Do you understand that?
47:28We're going to get this done backstage?
47:30Yes or no?
47:31Yeah.
47:32Mum?
47:33Both of you go that way.
47:34Graham's waiting.
47:35Give them a round of applause.
47:36Together, mother and son.
47:37Go.
47:43Good luck to them, I am, for this morning on a time.
47:45Don't forget, if you want to be on this show, you need my help, you can visit our website.
47:47The details are on screen now.
47:48To the guests, to the audience, and to you for watching.
47:50I'm going to see you very soon.
47:51Take care.
47:51Bye-bye for now.
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