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02:50Welcome to Beyond the Tape.
02:51I'm your host, Mark Basant.
02:53Welcome to our viewers across Trinidad and Tobago, and of course, across the world.
02:58It's day 75 of the state of emergency, and it's Friday.
03:03And while the workweek would have concluded for most of you all, the work for the police
03:07continues, and of course, you know, the media, we never stop working 24-7.
03:12Today, we have with us Corporal Shabody from the St. James Police Youth Club.
03:18We want to welcome you, sir.
03:20Our thanks.
03:22Well, it's been good.
03:23I think I saw you in some carnival band.
03:26Carnival Monday and Tuesday.
03:28I tried to come and talk to you to let you know that I have nice news being served by
03:32the police, but you didn't answer your phone.
03:34I called Jackie.
03:35Really?
03:36Yeah.
03:37But carnival to do was really nice.
03:38I want to thank the gold commander, Assistant Commissioner Smith, the inspectors in charge
03:43of traffic branch, excellent.
03:45In my 30-something years doing carnival duties, this was one of the best.
03:50Yes.
03:51I was with the association, social welfare.
03:53I was often, they would drop by, make sure the officers are well fed, have something
03:57to drink, well refreshed.
03:59Where was this?
04:00I performed duty at Independence Square and South Piccadilly.
04:04Right.
04:05Rough area.
04:06I passed around that area.
04:08I was in port.
04:09I was being dumped on.
04:10But honestly, I did not have my phone all the time on me.
04:13Okay.
04:14In my pocket, and I think there were some network problems as well, too.
04:17So, I really didn't see any misquotes from you.
04:20Yes, yes.
04:21The meal was excellent.
04:22Kitchen was excellent.
04:23I'd say, well, someday I'll have to try.
04:25But unfortunately, next time.
04:26Yeah, yeah.
04:27That's not an issue.
04:28Yes.
04:29I know that your work continues as we deal with this whole issue, you know, with gangs
04:38and the intervention of the, how important the youth club is in steering these young
04:43men in a positive direction.
04:46And all organizations.
04:47Any organization that's worked with young people, you have to tip your cap and salute
04:51them because it is a different time that we're dealing in, especially when you see the emergency.
04:56And you can appreciate the fact that they have centered and focused around gangs and
05:02this fancy name they call community leaders, which I feel is a disrespect to the true community
05:08leaders within our community.
05:10We need to take back that name.
05:12So, the fight continues.
05:13We need, as a gang, we need all hands on deck.
05:17We need to understand the importance of our collective effort.
05:20We need to recognize that because of the state of emergency, we are seeing good results.
05:24We're not frowning on the fact that some persons have died.
05:28It's a sad day.
05:30But we are grateful for the people who are working, informing police, you know, the information
05:36that we get from time to time.
05:38They do justice in showing our community continue to be safe.
05:41And young people are looking on.
05:43Young people are looking on and realizing that that life has no, nothing productive about
05:49that life.
05:50It's only sheer death.
05:51And we want to offer them life.
05:52You know, you made a very interesting point earlier when I was speaking.
05:55There are a couple of persons in various intelligence gathering units in the Trinidad and Tobago
06:00police over the last few weeks, of course, as I build certain stories.
06:05And one of them, a very senior officer, told me that, you know, this sense of calling them
06:11community leaders gives them a sense of empowerment.
06:13That's right.
06:14Rather than call them for what they are.
06:16And if you look at the detention orders, you would see gang member or gang leader.
06:22That's right.
06:23Let's call a spade a spade.
06:24That's right.
06:25And the objective of these gang leaders, Mike Bassant, is to remove and to replace the home.
06:32So you're no longer going home for advice.
06:34It's to replace the church because they see themselves as God.
06:38The goodness has now become the God.
06:40They'll replace the school system.
06:42You don't need to go to school again.
06:44I have an election to fix your pride.
06:46They have even replaced or seek to replace law enforcement.
06:49Because when somebody snatches a chain or there is a break-in in the community, you're going
06:54to the so-called community leader.
06:55Yes.
06:56And the objective is to replace these institutions and set yourself up as the abattoir and, you
07:03know, chief justice and all that within the community.
07:05I must say no to that.
07:07Because they want to steal your son, steal your children.
07:10And by extension, at the end of the day, you have no use.
07:13The community is in a race.
07:14What's going on in CILADS?
07:15Yes.
07:16And, of course, you make reference to that.
07:18This is not something just based here in Trinidad and Tobago.
07:23But we see it also in movies across the world when they tell the stories of persons who
07:31were involved in crime and how they rose into this empire.
07:36And, as you said, when something is wrong in an area, instead of going to the police,
07:40they go to this person and they get the situation under control or rectified.
07:46Yes.
07:47And that is with some level of ulterior motive.
07:52It is not genuine.
07:53Because at the end of the day, the only last thing is any person who takes without the
07:57consent of the owner or for the need of a criminal right, meaning good faith, takes
08:01and carries away anything capable of being stolen.
08:04And this is thief.
08:06This is broad daylight thieving our children, brainwashing them, you know, setting them
08:10up to believe that you are now the replacement at the home.
08:13And we have to understand that it is no time to mark time.
08:18It is time to step in the next gear because we are losing our children.
08:22It is not a good day when you have these fellows that are setting themselves up on block and
08:28having discussions with the children to try to change them and not work in concert with
08:32you.
08:33Yes.
08:34To ensure at the end of the day, you could walk out home anytime.
08:36I have a place for you.
08:37Yes.
08:38With ulterior motive.
08:39And we said we're going to continue that discussion during the course of this hour
08:43as we go forward.
08:45But, you know, we just wanted to bring you up to speed with some other news happening.
08:49A couple of hours ago, the Hunter Search and Rescue Team found the body of a missing man
08:56by the name of Edmond Don Sulel in the south area.
09:02This sometime, maybe about mid-morning, he had been missing for a couple of, I think,
09:07a day or two.
09:09And his body was found in this bushy area here.
09:13Of course, we don't, we're not familiar.
09:15This is Captain Rambarat there.
09:17We're not familiar with the circumstances under which that gentleman may have passed.
09:24And we will have to obviously wait to see what the postmortem perhaps might be able
09:30to tell us in some measure.
09:33Yes.
09:34Piparo area.
09:35He's from Piparo.
09:36Edmond Don Sulel, age 58.
09:38Missing, I think, yesterday?
09:40Yes.
09:42One day ago, he was found less than 24 hours later.
09:46Well, just over 24 hours, sorry, in these bushes here.
09:51Very, very unfortunate.
09:53Very unfortunate.
09:54And again, we have to commend the Search and Rescue Team for doing a human service.
09:58You know, they really work in concert with the police.
10:01They do good work.
10:02You know, I received an award with the good Captain, and we exchanged numbers,
10:06and he tend to come on board, work with young people, you know, take them on hikes,
10:10show them the terrain, because they know the best.
10:13You know, and I really want to commend, I want to salute them for that kind of,
10:16going beyond the call of duty.
10:19You know, it is unfortunate that you have these kind of things appearing on news,
10:24but it speaks to the fact that we need to be very more careful, you know,
10:30neighborhood watch groups, looking out, being a protects keeper.
10:33Those are some of the factors that will try to minimize putting yourself at risk.
10:38You call somebody, let somebody know where you are.
10:40You try to move in a group.
10:42You know, all these are important things that we need to put in place
10:45because of the times that we're living in.
10:47Certainly.
10:48And today as well, police were called to an area in Angelina Street in Mova
10:53where they found the body of a decomposing man, of course,
10:56with a garbage bag over his head, believed to have been murdered,
11:00and his body dumped there.
11:02And I think our homicide figure stands at approximately 74, 75 now.
11:08So we're going like almost one a day.
11:10Yes.
11:11Yeah, and we do want to slight on the deaths and, you know,
11:16pat ourselves on the back that it's less than last year, you know,
11:20because the SEA has its role.
11:22But we're calling on people to understand that these are the men,
11:26so they're not going to give up.
11:28Yeah.
11:29You know, you have to take the fight to them.
11:31You have to make sure they don't have sleepless nights.
11:34You know, we are thankful for the intelligence
11:36because innocent people that they're preying on, you know,
11:40and sometimes you look at the TV and you see some of the people crying
11:45and parents burying their children, and it is a sad day in this country.
11:50But this is a fight that we must win.
11:52Yes.
11:53And through the media and through our collective effort, we will persevere.
11:57And we are grateful for the partnership,
11:59and we are grateful for those who are working behind the scenes
12:02and working in concert with the police service.
12:05All right.
12:06Today is Day 75 of the State of Emergency.
12:10Of course, we're going to just bring you up to date quickly with those figures.
12:16Number of operations, 1,308.
12:19Target priority offenders, 2,717.
12:23Searches conducted, 26,474.
12:28Traffic operations, 3,396.
12:32Total persons arrested, 2,887.
12:36Traffic offenses detected thus far, 13,232.
12:42Firearms recovered, 135.
12:45Ammunition recovered, 3,382.
12:50And dangerous drugs seized thus far, 329,606.9 grams of cannabis
12:57and 2,945.48 grams of cocaine, 73 grams of ecstasy, and 5 grams of crystal meth.
13:07Those figures speak volumes.
13:10You know, as much as it needs to be applauded for the amount of work that's being done
13:14with the Protective Services Defense Force and all the intelligence we get,
13:18we have to do some cleaning up.
13:21There's much cleaning up to be done, and it is unfortunate.
13:24You can imagine last year, this time, those figures were nowhere close.
13:29Yeah, probably over 100, 110.
13:32So we need to continue to appreciate the fact that officers leave home not short of coming back.
13:39We need to encourage them, give them the impetus, the incentive,
13:42let them know that the people are there, the community is there supporting them.
13:46You know, if you know something, say something,
13:48and it must be done with a little bit of discretion, of course, being discreet and using some diplomacy.
13:53I'm not saying no walking in the station and saying no A, B, and C.
13:55Yes.
13:56You follow?
13:57And there are ways that you would pass on information,
14:00because we need to clean our communities.
14:02It is our right.
14:03The children who are growing up has requested that.
14:07It is a part of an arrangement that the community I live in must be a safe community,
14:12and therefore these people are not patriotic.
14:16They do not love this country.
14:18They don't like this country.
14:19They are haters.
14:20They are on greed, and therefore they should not, you know,
14:24you know like they deport people who are not, who are not Trinidadians.
14:29You're right.
14:30Criminals are not Trinidadians.
14:31Don't deport them or exile them.
14:34All right.
14:35Let's take a look now at our headlines.
14:50All right.
15:15Those are some of the headlines within the last 24 hours,
15:18and of course amongst those headlines was that huge drug bust from the ship
15:23that came onto the shores, $254 million worth of cocaine,
15:27certainly a very, you know, multi-operational operation
15:34that took place with the help of U.S. counterparts,
15:37the Drug Enforcement Agency, also known as the DEA,
15:40as well as several other entities that were attached to the Trinidad
15:45and Tobago Police Service.
15:46So some really great work there.
15:48This is not a national fight.
15:50This is not a regional fight.
15:52It is global.
15:53It is international.
15:54Because that is how they are operating.
15:56It's how the drugs and the cartel are being operated.
15:58They have an excellent network, you know,
16:00and we have to break that communication.
16:02We have to understand that every drug that comes in,
16:06even though here is a transit, you know, it's a few stop out,
16:09it ends up in your home.
16:10It ends up in your community.
16:11It ends up in your school.
16:13And, therefore, it is simple to understand how drugs start off.
16:19Four fellows start smoking weed.
16:21After the four fellows start smoking weed, they say,
16:23well, you can push, you know.
16:24And then they start pushing.
16:25They realize there's money coming in.
16:27And then they say, hey, we've got to arm ourselves
16:29because somebody is going to take over.
16:31And that is how some of them, simple and insignificant,
16:34that is how drug blocks start.
16:36And parents need to be alert to know that we do not wish to promote
16:40and perpetrate that kind of behavior within the community.
16:43Football, basketball, swimming, karate, keep them active.
16:46Drugs is a no-no in the community.
16:49It starts off small but ends up, unfortunately, taking your children.
16:54Yes.
16:55All right, we're going to take a short break.
16:56And when we get back, sorry, we'll have more.
16:58Stay with us.
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19:12Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
19:40I'm your host, Mark Bassan,
19:41joined today by Corporal Shabani of the St. James Police Youth Club.
19:45We want to remind you of the numbers to call, 623-1711,
19:50extensions 1996 and 1997,
19:53as we continue our very serious discussion about gangs and gang leaders.
20:01I'm trying to understand the role and function of these persons
20:05and these communities and mostly a lot of impoverished communities
20:11where a lot of persons are really struggling and so on.
20:16And if you can break that down,
20:17because I'm sure you would have spoken to a number of young men
20:20who have walked through the doors of your youth club with stories for you.
20:25I've lost count of the amount of young people we have seen to transform.
20:30Even young leaders.
20:32They say, I'm a son down by you, you know.
20:34I say, but your son, he say, listen to me.
20:37If my son come and live with me, don't kill him.
20:39So I had contact with so-called gang leaders.
20:43I know them.
20:44I grew up with them.
20:45Right.
20:46You know, from when I grew up on Nelson Street.
20:47I know these fellows.
20:48I play football with them.
20:49And they're not friends.
20:50Sometimes it's friends, you know.
20:52Friends have this nonsense going on between each other
20:55or because of money and greed.
20:57And the thing about it is that they want to make sure that
21:01they set themselves up as the provider of your basic needs.
21:06So you want food, shelter, clothing, your house,
21:09so that you know where to go to.
21:11You know, you want a car to pull a little bull.
21:13So in reality, what they're telling people is that come to me.
21:18I can provide.
21:19And in quick time, too.
21:20You don't need no application from me.
21:22However, I need a daughter.
21:24Or I need two sons to run.
21:26And sometimes mothers and fathers give way
21:30and allow their children to become slaves to that type of lifestyle
21:34because things are coming in the home.
21:36And they benefit.
21:37That's right.
21:38Because they benefit.
21:39Things are coming in and they are grateful.
21:40And they may even hear them making a case for them,
21:42saying that he's not all that bad.
21:44Look what he has done for me.
21:46Yes, he does possibly drugs in the community,
21:48but he has taken care of the community.
21:50And you can see that people were sold and bought, unfortunately,
21:54because the basic needs were not being met.
21:56And some people, you know, sometimes my mother would have grown up
22:00and the elderly would have grown up.
22:01Sometimes they're uneducated, but they had a sense of worth, a sense of value.
22:05You know, there's nothing that would allow them to sell themselves cheap.
22:09And the leaders also play a game that they use what you call duress.
22:15They have you cornered.
22:17So, therefore, you feel that you are loyal.
22:19You hear about young fellows getting killed because they don't want to join.
22:21They do not wish to be a part of it.
22:23There were cases of that, you know, unfortunately.
22:26And, therefore, sometimes young men have to move, leave the community,
22:30give up their home in order for them to survive.
22:33You know, you depicted a scenario there just a short while ago
22:38about, you know, gang leaders who have been good to the community.
22:44And I'm certain we can go back and talk about persons who are now dead.
22:49Yes.
22:50They face the hangman's noose, where they were described as really giving a robbing to these neighborhoods.
22:56Yes.
22:57I know about Burns.
22:58I know about Tucks.
22:59I know about J.D.
23:01You could go all the way back.
23:02Orland King, Derrick King.
23:04I know these fellows.
23:05You know, the guys, the twins up in Maraval.
23:10And even after they died, there were young people waiting patiently to take their turn.
23:15As I said there, so that it is not a case of only recruitment.
23:20It is a case where young people are now volunteering to become a gang, to be involved in a gang.
23:25Because mommy and the home has not provided those basic fundamental needs for me.
23:29I am no longer protected at home.
23:31And, therefore, there is a pseudo protection that these gangs and them provide.
23:36The brotherhood, the knocking.
23:38And that's unfortunate.
23:40How do we address that in terms of replacing it with something positive, something that is proactive,
23:49and something that is functional, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, for those young persons,
23:57so that they don't get trapped into this lifestyle?
24:00But I think the first thing that we need to do, and we have lost a lot of points, is give young people a platform to talk.
24:05We have been speaking too much.
24:07Let me hear what you are going through.
24:09Let me understand your plight.
24:10Let me understand your challenges.
24:12Let me, I want to appreciate, let me empathize and say, I understand what you are going through.
24:16You know, I can help you.
24:18I will be able to provide some kind of solace.
24:20And it must be genuine.
24:22Because they say, you're only making promises to them when they are fuller.
24:25And, therefore, if you are to make promises to young people, it must be real.
24:28It must be not long-term.
24:31What are my immediate needs?
24:33Officer, I'm looking for work.
24:36Things are tough.
24:37I left school at form four.
24:39My dad is no longer around.
24:41I really need to make sure I provide for home.
24:43And that's many cases of young men looking for employment.
24:47Some of them need to go back to school because of their literacy.
24:50And, therefore, the servants and the white-tap and other vocational schools provide an excellent platform,
24:56tailored in terms of letting them know that skills is also academic.
25:01And not just Spanish and French and account.
25:04But if you're a tailor, if you're a mechanic, if you're a masonry,
25:08all those things are important skill sets that you can have.
25:12It lasts for a lifetime.
25:14The final part is a question of a sense of worth.
25:17You have to move them from a sense of hopelessness to hopefulness.
25:21They have no hope.
25:22They give up.
25:23So you have to put that spark in them and say, God has called you with a purpose.
25:29You follow?
25:30That's why I want you to come now and talk.
25:31I want people, I want young men to come and talk to them.
25:33And you have to bring speakers, too, who will touch and work and reach them from down there.
25:39Real talk.
25:40We ain't talking about paper talk and, you know, flam talk.
25:43We need to speak to our young people like on the block.
25:46How was your day?
25:47How was school today?
25:48Tell me what's going on at home.
25:50And you also need to provide a second home for them at the police club centers
25:54where they can come and enjoy a safe space.
25:57And they will know that the police is not yet to lock up, arrest, and charge.
26:01But we are also at help because we are fathers, too.
26:03We are uncle.
26:04We have a family.
26:05And we also concern about your welfare.
26:07Yeah.
26:08I sense your passion in this because, obviously, it is something that is an ongoing struggle or ongoing fight.
26:16Yes.
26:17It's an ongoing challenge that we all have to face because these are the young men and women that we want to put.
26:25They're going to be the leaders of tomorrow.
26:27That's right.
26:28That's right.
26:29And we have to guide them in that direction where they will see no evil but try to do good for others.
26:35That's right.
26:36And, of course, by lifting themselves out of a situation or out of an impoverished area,
26:41they inspire others that live in that particular community.
26:46That's right.
26:47And we have seen a number of people that have come from those kinds of communities
26:51that have made a difference, a vast difference, across all sectors of society.
26:57And it goes in a positive light in terms of being tested and having a testimony
27:03because that is the only way you can talk and speak and share.
27:07If you have not been tested, then you will not have a testimony.
27:10And we need to bring on people who probably fall, who probably may jail, who probably unfortunately went.
27:15You see, we cannot paint a good picture to youth because they know what's going on outside.
27:20So probably those who have challenges and those who have rise to the challenge,
27:24you know, those who probably come from an unfortunate situation and have picked themselves up,
27:28those are the people who need to be applauded.
27:30Those are the people that every day come down to the club and say,
27:33Officer, I would like to talk to the young man.
27:35There's a young man here in the center.
27:37How can I work with him?
27:39What kind of services can I provide?
27:41People need to offer their services, and that's what we are called to do,
27:45to be of service to those who are lost.
27:48Yeah, it's certainly, as I said, it's a never-ending challenge.
27:52And the more persons you get on board, more hands on deck, as you say,
27:57you can help to make that pronounced difference in the life of someone.
28:02Because I think a lot of times they don't want to open up, but they need somebody to listen,
28:06that will genuinely listen, and just before you even think about what you're going to respond to these persons,
28:13listen to them.
28:15That's all part of emotional intelligence, listening intently to somebody
28:20before you even formulate in your mind.
28:23Don't start to think about what you want to say even before they finish.
28:26Cherry-picking, that's right.
28:27You know?
28:28That's right.
28:29So you're being selective, and you're going selectively in terms of what you...
28:32You see, what happened too, I have recognized that even as you apply listening skills,
28:36they answer their own questions.
28:38So you open it.
28:39You think that that is the right way to go?
28:41No.
28:42So what do you want to let them answer?
28:44So what do you think you should do?
28:47And who do you feel should assist you in your act together?
28:50There are a few people who have been good to open-ended questions,
28:54and therefore you engage them differently instead of pointing fingers and saying,
28:58they already know they're wrong.
28:59They already know they have err, and they have made some shortcomings.
29:02It's you now to inspire them, empower them, and let them know that God has a purpose in their life.
29:08All right.
29:09We're going to take a short break, and we'll be back with more.
29:12Stay with us.
29:17It's the scale of the something, and it's all the different things,
29:19and the security of knowing that when I say the something, how safe am I, what I'm about to say.
29:25You know?
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31:38Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
32:02I'm your host, Mark Bassan,
32:03joined today by Corporal Shabedi of the St. James Police Youth Club.
32:07As we continue our segment, Voice of the People, still in Port of Spain.
32:12Let's take a listen.
32:31Do you feel safe at home coming out when you're going to work,
32:35climbing, conducting business?
32:41So I move with these things around me, right?
32:44So I feel safe in so much as I move with the things that I move with,
32:52with God and and all the other protections, you know,
32:57and those kinds of things.
32:58So I move without fear in this space because it's my space.
33:03You know, I have to listen to my instincts.
33:07And, you know, but the place is unsafe.
33:10I mean, the place is unsafe.
33:14I mean, you know, yeah, you have to gauge and make the calculations.
33:18You know, you talk about being unsafe.
33:21Then isn't it that you take certain measures to safeguard yourself?
33:27I take measures to safeguard myself.
33:30But at the same time, I know the women around me are completely confined.
33:36You know, if before they had a hundred things they could do,
33:40now they have like three, right?
33:43You know, I just move with how I move because I'm me.
33:48And, you know, but a lot of times when I'm moving,
33:51I am probably the only person moving like that.
33:53You know, everybody else, you know, moving with, you know,
33:57all these other kinds of, you know.
34:00So, I mean, you know, part of it is that, you know, it's my space.
34:05You know, it's our space.
34:07And so we have to, you know, act without fear.
34:09But again, it can't be stupid.
34:11You know, the place is what it is, you know.
34:14Is there a connection between poverty and crime?
34:18Yeah, of course.
34:20The pressure, look, I have seven dogs, right?
34:24And chickens, right?
34:27And sometimes when, you know, things go left
34:29in terms of money and that kind of stuff,
34:32and my seven dogs just stand up there,
34:34sitting down there watching me in my face.
34:36I was like, okay, guys, hold straight.
34:39Like, you know, I could imagine somebody with seven children
34:43watching them in their face like that, you know.
34:46And for me, that period might last two weeks.
34:50I might be going through that for another two weeks.
34:52There are people going through that for two years, 20 years.
34:55Their whole life, you know.
34:57What do you do when that, those eyes looking at you, you know,
35:03a wife and a, you know, your girl or a grandmother
35:07or your mother and father, and you are the man,
35:10and they're looking at you, what do you do?
35:13Sometimes not everybody have the choices, you know.
35:17And not everybody could, and they might not want to,
35:20but it just takes that, everything on the edge, you know.
35:23And so poverty is a huge part of it.
35:25What do you think, why do you think people aspire to become criminals
35:29or want to become criminals?
35:32I mean, it's just things happening in your childhood
35:34and in your youth and your upbringing,
35:36and the absence of love and absence of boundaries
35:39and absence of all those kind of things,
35:42absence of certain kinds of punishments so that you know,
35:45you know what, you know, the implications of things are.
35:48You don't have empathy, absence of empathy,
35:51absence of understanding how to resolve conflict
35:55and those kinds of things.
35:57But also internationally,
36:00gangsterism has been sold to black people and black males,
36:05especially working class black males, right?
36:08So that's multi-billion dollar industries.
36:11The music that has been the shield for black people for 100 years
36:17is the thing that has transformed the world humanly for 100 years.
36:21It's not been weaponized against black people,
36:23and it's been used in the community to kill their own people.
36:28If you see something, would you say something?
36:31Yeah, I mean, yeah.
36:33The thing is, is the scale of the something,
36:35and it's all the different things,
36:37and the security of knowing that when I say the something,
36:40how safe am I, what I'm about to say, you know?
36:47How safe am I?
36:48And you hit some very salient points there.
36:50You know, the last part of which I think resonates with both of us,
36:54apart from the fact he talked about young black men and so on,
36:58but the music.
37:00Yes.
37:01The music has done a lot of injustice to free men.
37:06You see, the way you think is the way you speak,
37:08and the way you speak is the way you behave.
37:10And music is a powerful tool.
37:12Sometimes you subconsciously catch yourself tapping,
37:15but then there is the video component to the same music,
37:19how you walk, how you stand, how you sit, how you dress, how you talk.
37:22So it sets you up in terms of a whole type of psyche
37:27and a whole type of aura, you follow,
37:30that will make you feel a sense of, okay, belonging,
37:33because you're now part of the in thing.
37:35Long time, it was Michael Jackson,
37:38and I do anything to do the moonwalk.
37:42Come now, man, come now.
37:43I can do one right now, but time doesn't permit.
37:46You understand? It was safe music.
37:48And by that, ACDC, it had KISS, Night and Satan,
37:52after Christ, it had rock music, heavy metal,
37:55and we remind our young people that even though it doesn't affect you,
38:00it will affect those who are not stable.
38:02And my brother here make a lot of sense,
38:05so that the gangs and then the groups, the toxic group,
38:09they have the music set up to even ensure that you become professional,
38:15you make money,
38:16they show you that there's a money-making business in it as well.
38:19And he said a lot.
38:21I want to applaud him.
38:22I know the gentleman very well.
38:24But I also want to make a note that too many times
38:29we do not teach our young people to become businessmen,
38:34to contribute, how to set up a small business.
38:37We teach our children, you know,
38:39first thing you do, you get a little piggy bank
38:42and you teach them how to save 20 by 50,
38:45and the value of that,
38:46that all those things we need to revisit.
38:49We need to let our young black African brothers know
38:52that they have a purpose,
38:54that they can have a business like anybody else, anybody else.
38:59But when society sets them up to make them feel
39:02that what belongs to you also belongs to me,
39:05we set our children up, and that is not nice.
39:08And I don't want to hit the music
39:10because I know that they have their own creativity.
39:14But as a number of law enforcement officers have pointed out and others,
39:20there are subliminal messages in some of these songs
39:23that incite others to attack others.
39:27Now, music is about interpretation as well.
39:30You and I might listen to a song
39:32and love the rhythm and the beat and so on.
39:35We would not literally take the words that he's saying
39:38and want to go and do something, right?
39:40Logically speaking.
39:41That's right.
39:42But there are others who would take that as a self,
39:44a kind of empowerment to say,
39:46this man told me, go and do this.
39:48Let's do it.
39:49Yes. Some songs are poison.
39:51Some songs know exactly who it is they're targeting,
39:54the audience they're targeting,
39:55the children who are lost,
39:56the children who are in love, uncared for.
39:58They know exactly what the audience look like.
40:01You follow?
40:02And therefore, these songs need to be banned.
40:04They should not be on the airwaves.
40:06They should not be, you know, within the doors of...
40:10And sometimes you go in community and once upon a time,
40:14my mother controlled the radio.
40:16My mother determined what play in this house
40:19and how loud you play it.
40:20That is not the case now.
40:21Children seem to be in the driving seat
40:23and they seem to be telling you what is being played.
40:25And the amount of obscene and filth that is coming from the home,
40:30sometimes even if you take off the radio
40:32and you take off the violent music,
40:34there's enough violence in the home
40:36that perpetrate and allow young people
40:39to see violence as the way to go.
40:42So it's a sum total of a lot of factors
40:44that would have contributed to a violent and a lawsuit.
40:48Yes, and of course, we'll talk about that a little more
40:52before the show is finished.
40:54We're going to take a short break now
40:56and we'll be back. Stay with us.
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43:02It's the one and only D.R.E.
43:17Welcome back to Beyond the Chip.
43:18I'm your host, Mark Bussan.
43:19Joined today by Corporal Shabadi
43:21of the St. James Police Youth Club.
43:24We just want to remind you of the numbers.
43:26623-1711, extensions 1996 and 1997.
43:32You were talking about the music.
43:34You talked about music should be banned
43:37because of the lyrics and so on.
43:39I think Jamaica has taken a stance
43:43in terms of the lyrical content of certain songs
43:47being banned from the radio period
43:50because of, I guess, the messages it might convey
43:54to the younger thinking individuals.
43:57Yeah, and Jamaica needs to be applauded.
43:59This is leading by example
44:02because Jamaica understands over the many years
44:04what the music has done to the youth.
44:06And therefore, if Jamaica...
44:09Let's say they have the hub, the platform
44:12for, let's say, gangster music
44:15because that's where, you understand,
44:17the genesis of the music started.
44:19We call it Trinibad.
44:21But we took patterns from some of the music
44:23we got from Jamaica.
44:24We crafted it in our unique way.
44:26But we cannot feed our children poison.
44:28As a father, I cannot sit down at a table
44:30and feed my child poison.
44:32No mother should be feeding.
44:34And some music, let me just say,
44:37you look at it and you watch the video
44:41and you see how our young people are behaving.
44:43You're seeing, wow, how they're acting,
44:45the pants, the dress code,
44:47that they have alias name,
44:49you know, the whole hairstyle.
44:51You see that the video also impacts on the whole persona
44:54and by extension, the kinetics.
44:56And we need to applaud Jamaica.
44:58We need to look at Jamaica in the same light
45:02that we need to also be proactive
45:05and stop being reactive.
45:06Don't wait until it explodes.
45:08Don't wait until we have 23% of young people
45:11involved in serious crimes and we're feeding music.
45:13We already have the science.
45:15We already have the data.
45:16We are already pontificating over and over
45:19that there's some music is not good
45:21and it's not good for our children
45:23and by extension, the community.
45:25I have seen when certain music start,
45:28how young people are going to behave.
45:30And I just want you to stick a pin there
45:33because maybe it's a challenge going forward,
45:36perhaps something that we can contemplate
45:38with our producer,
45:39maybe getting somebody from your club to come on here
45:43and kind of articulate to us
45:45in terms of what does that music,
45:48what value that music brings to them intrinsically.
45:51I know there's the catchy beats and so on and the hook lines
45:55and do some of them really take this in a literal sense
45:59to empower them to want to be, you know,
46:02a gangster or a member of a gang and so on.
46:05So that might be something we can perhaps look at
46:08You have a caller on the line.
46:10Caller, good evening.
46:12Hello, good evening.
46:14I just want to ask them,
46:15if they could do something about enforcing the laws
46:18about the loud music coming out of the car.
46:21Where I live there, it is too loud that they're doing that.
46:24One of these days, my window is going to shatter.
46:29If there's anything can be enforced,
46:31do something about that, please.
46:34Yes.
46:36Yes, so that's to you.
46:38What I would like to know,
46:40can be enforced, you know,
46:42about the loud music from the car.
46:45Gentlemen, where I live,
46:47when you see the car passing,
46:49shatter it, you can shatter my glass.
46:53And there's a church not too far from me.
46:55They don't care where they come from.
46:57Please do something about that loud music coming from the car.
47:02Thank you very much.
47:04Thank you, caller, for your call.
47:06I think she was speaking about music
47:08that emanates from vehicles
47:10that pass on these roadways
47:12with the boom boxes inside of them.
47:15Well, I know as regards to the Motor Vehicle and Road Traffic Act,
47:18in terms of taxis and each,
47:21that there's a particular amount of volume.
47:26And some of these fellows are so good,
47:28they have a switch,
47:29they have all different sort of smart devices now
47:31that they can easily flick when they're alerted
47:34that police are on the block or whatever.
47:36In terms of private cars,
47:37I don't think there's very much we can do about that
47:39because that's within their own...
47:41But I know that taxi vehicles and maxi-taxis,
47:45those will be doing school patrol.
47:48And I do that from time to time.
47:50You see the maxi men, they're informed, they're alerted,
47:53and they have that kind of connection.
47:55So the maxi that pushes out, now going out,
47:59inform, hey, police are on the block, so and so.
48:01And that's why we need to be very tactful in terms of addressing.
48:04And we have a relationship to the maxi-taxis association.
48:07It's not just about catching you.
48:09It's about understanding what you're doing to the children.
48:11Because the more loud music you play,
48:13when that child enters the school, they're hyper.
48:16They're not ready to receive the subjects and the education.
48:20Music really, there is music that you can play that prepares you,
48:25that allows you, that engages you,
48:27that edifies you, that they say, ah, I'm ready.
48:29And their music is like a drug.
48:32It helps you hyper, and unfortunately, it throws off your whole day.
48:36And we have to be very careful.
48:38And what you said earlier, we need to educate young people.
48:41Instead of criticizing, educate young people
48:44in terms of what music and the power of music.
48:46It's a platform that we need to push.
48:48I mean, Corporal Sharp, what you're doing nowadays,
48:51the maxi-taxi culture has been around for a long time.
48:54They had, you know, people, you know, the speaker boxes at the back.
48:58The back seats were elevated.
49:00People sitting down there.
49:02School over, school in the morning, you're going down the road.
49:05But I think, to be fair, the music has really,
49:10the music then was a lot cleaner than it is now.
49:16Let's say the last 10, 15 years.
49:18We have a call on the line.
49:19Caller, good evening.
49:21Good evening, caller.
49:24What are you doing?
49:26I've seen you guys speaking about the music
49:29and the impact it has on the youth.
49:31Now, what you're saying there makes sense.
49:33There's loads and loads of evidence.
49:36You speak about your nation and what they are doing.
49:39My question is, where do we start?
49:43Is it below?
49:45Is it in school?
49:47Is it at home?
49:48Where do we start to protect the youth's mind from this poison?
49:55Where do we start?
49:56Because the journey starts with the first step.
49:59The question is, do we identify the music as having a negative impact on them?
50:05The question is, where do we start?
50:08How do we build the foundation of getting rid of this poison?
50:12Education is an excellent vehicle.
50:15The law cannot do everything.
50:18While we need to have laws and we need to penalize people
50:21because there are people who will be lawless, we need to educate.
50:24The earlier you educate, the more young people can make a more informed choice.
50:29If you don't educate them, then they are ignorant and they are naive
50:32and they become, unfortunately, a puppet to this type of music.
50:38When you say, take for instance, we have a male support group in a political club
50:43and we put on the music.
50:45We put on and we say, okay, let's listen to these lyrics.
50:48What is this person really saying?
50:50Is this person being disrespectful to the female?
50:52Is this person being, and we break it down for them.
50:55And some young people say, no, no, no, no.
50:58I never taught it so.
51:00Even the girls didn't realize that when a young man would say,
51:04or have you in a particular light, they're disrespecting you.
51:07And therefore, we need to give young people an opportunity to hear what they're saying
51:11and also break it down in a civilized platform.
51:14Not in an argument.
51:15So I think that education is an excellent platform.
51:18And what we are doing here is also educating.
51:21Yes, and he asked also, just before we go to the break, that where does it start?
51:26It has to be a perpetual thing, not just in school, but at your home
51:31and conversations you have with your peers, your parents, even your friends.
51:35That's right.
51:36To nourish your mind and to understand what these lyrics are trying to convey.
51:41Well said, well said.
51:42All right, we're going to take a short break and we'll be back. Stay with us.
52:12Perfect.
52:17Perfect, man.
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54:00Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
54:02My name is Mark Bassan, joined today by Corporal Shabadi of the St. James Police Youth Club.
54:06And just so you know, we were supposed to give you an update.
54:09There was actually a shootout in Chase Village earlier today.
54:13And what I understand is that at least three bandits were shot and killed in that exchange with police
54:20after they attempted to rob a truck and police responded.
54:25So, you know, it is what it is.
54:29Live by the sword, die by the sword.
54:31We are not making any kind of pronouncements because probably three young men are lost.
54:36Three young men probably have no dad.
54:38Three young men, you know, they don't have a sense of value, a sense of worth and the city power of the gun.
54:42Or somebody, some committee leader, quote unquote, you know, have them.
54:47My understanding is it was the nationalists from another country but yet to be ascertained.
54:53Oh, that's the next one.
54:54That's the whole next story myself.
54:56I just want to say for the benefit of those who are listening.
54:59The commissioner of police and the executive has endorsed the police youth club.
55:04And it's part of the mandate.
55:06It's part of the vision.
55:07It's part of the policy that police youth club is going and is a proactive approach.
55:11Community policing and youth clubs, you could say, is the gospel of the police service.
55:16It's good news.
55:17And therefore, we go beyond the code of duty because we are fathers too.
55:21And we understand the importance of raising, nurturing and also tapping into the minds of youth.
55:28We are grateful that we have this platform.
55:30That we can reach those who are listening.
55:32And those who are wondering, what can I do with my son?
55:35Okay, there's a youth club here.
55:36There's a program.
55:37We want to come up with solutions.
55:39We want to be experts in providing solutions.
55:42We can talk all day about the problem.
55:44We can talk all day about who's wrong and who's right.
55:47But we are solutions experts.
55:49What can we do to ensure that parents are given the tools, equip them to become better parents?
55:56This is an excellent platform that we look forward to providing parents.
56:00There is hope as we empower community from strength to strength.
56:05Yes, certainly.
56:06And I know that a lot of young persons listening, we hope that you would take up that challenge.
56:12And if you want to join that youth club, not just in St. James but across the country, feel free to go in walking and join.
56:19And I know that you have another event that you would like to tell us about before we wrap up.
56:24Yeah, well, our youth club this year celebrates your health is your wealth.
56:28We believe health is paramount, healthy mind, healthy body.
56:32And we want to really congratulate this organization, this organization.
56:37We have Dr. Sandra Boxer will be coming to talk about cervical cancer, the body.
56:42And, you know, we care for all men.
56:45Men must understand how the body operates and women too.
56:48We want to invite all the women, Western Division, whatever, once you're available, come now.
56:52It's free of charge.
56:53It starts at 115 and 130 to 330.
56:58Excellent, very interactive.
57:00And we feel that educating young people and educating our young women in terms of how you keep your body is paramount.
57:08And this is all part of a holistic approach to crime prevention, caring for your body.
57:14Really sounds like something that I hope that everybody takes, you know, some time off to go down and, you know, listening.
57:22Even those young men out there, go there and listen and get an idea of, you know, do you have to help a mother or your sister?
57:30The case may be.
57:32All right.
57:33Remember, repeat tonight at 1130.
57:36No rerun tomorrow, of course.
57:38The TV6 News is up next.
57:40Stay with us and have a very safe weekend.
57:43See you on Monday.
57:52.
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