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00:00Parents, strongly caution, this program contains some material that is unsuitable for young
00:55children.
00:56Beyond the tape, we'll be back after these messages.
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02:46Welcome to Beyond the Tape.
02:47I'm your host, Mark Bassant.
02:49It's I think the 38th of the state of emergency.
02:53Welcome to our viewers across Trinidad and Tobago and of course, our viewers across the
02:57globe.
02:58And you know, today it's legally speaking Wednesdays and I want to welcome Attorney
03:04at Law Corporal Zahir Ali of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
03:08Welcome, sir.
03:09How are you?
03:10Well, good evening to you, Mark.
03:12I know that you and other members of the media are very busy over the last couple of days
03:16and you know, ensuring that you know, you are who will promote democracy in Trinidad
03:22and Tobago.
03:23And you know, good evening to Jackie and the family of Beyond the Tape, citizens of Trinidad
03:27and Tobago, my colleagues in the law enforcement agencies.
03:31We know that it's a challenging time.
03:33I'm asking you all to stay focused, you know, hold strong to your oath of office.
03:38But again, Mark, it's a pleasure to be here this afternoon to assist in wherever I can
03:41assist.
03:42All right.
03:43And I know certainly you have also been busy on your side of doing things in relation to
03:48a specific investigation, which I will not question you, ask you about, of course.
03:52But certainly today was an extremely eventful day.
03:58We had the prime minister speaking in parliament as they discussed and debated the nomination
04:05of DCP Benjamin to be appointed as the acting commissioner of police in the absence, of
04:12course, of the PSC asking the commissioner to stand aside until further notice.
04:21Let's take a listen in.
04:23I beg to move the following motion standing in my name.
04:29Whereas section 1, 2, 3, subsection 1, subsection A of the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad
04:38and Tobago, the constitution provides that the police service commission shall have the
04:46power to appoint persons to hold or act in the office of commissioner and deputy commissioner
04:55of police.
04:57And whereas section 1, 2, 3, subsection 3 of the constitution provides that the police
05:05service commission shall submit to the president a list of the names of the persons nominated
05:16for appointment to the office of commissioner or deputy commissioner of police.
05:26And whereas section 1, 2, 3, subsection 4 of the constitution provides that the president
05:37shall issue a notification in respect of each person nominated under subsection 3 and
05:47the notification shall be subject to affirmative resolution of the house of representatives.
05:58And whereas the police service commission has submitted to the president the name Mr.
06:07Junior Benjamin, deputy commissioner of police as the person nominated to act in the office
06:16of commissioner of police.
06:19And whereas the president has on the 31st day of January, 2025, issued a notification
06:28in respect of the nomination.
06:32And whereas it is expedient to approve the notification, be it resolved that the notification
06:40of the president of the nomination by the police service commission of Mr. Junior Benjamin
06:48to act in the office of commissioner of police be approved.
06:56So that was Prime Minister Dr. Keith Rowe speaking in parliament, of course, nominating
07:03the or approving rather or debating the appointment of DCP Junior Benjamin to now be acting commissioner
07:11of police, of course.
07:12So when he receives his instruments of appointment, that will be confirmed by the president.
07:18And we also had earlier on a press conference involving the Trinidad and Tobago Police
07:24Service and Social Welfare Association who also spoke on the matter.
07:29And also simultaneously happening during the parliament sitting, of course, was the court
07:36matter surrounding Commissioner Christopher and her lawyers, senior counsel Pamela Elder
07:44asking for judicial review.
07:45And we can tell you that that finished a short while ago.
07:50And we understand that on one hand, Justice Christopher Suchan granted leave to commissioner
07:56to pursue a claim for judicial review against the commission's decision, sorry, to suspend.
08:02But on the other hand, however, the judge refused to grant the interim relief that the
08:08commissioner was asking for in terms of granting an injunctive relief.
08:12That really was no one, that was no one to be appointed to take control of the Trinidad
08:16and Tobago Police Service, even while the investigation against her was ongoing.
08:21And for close to four hours, attorneys for the commissioner led by SC Pamela Elder and
08:27the Police Service Commission headed by senior counsel Deborah Peak made submissions before
08:32the judge.
08:33And following the submissions, the judge just briefly stood down after hearing, sorry, to
08:40consider the arguments that they heard.
08:42And around 4.20, he returned and made the announcement.
08:46Justice Suchan, in delivering his oral ruling, made reference to a recently concluded appeal
08:51between Auditor General Jaywante Ramdas against Finance Minister Colm Embert at the Privy
08:57Council.
08:58And in that appeal, the British law lords held there was a very low full threshold for
09:03the granting of leave.
09:04Given that ruling, the judge said he was of the view that the leave to challenge a decision
09:08should in fact be granted.
09:10However, when it came to the interim relief, being sought, the judge said that there was
09:16need for the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service to have a leader at this time, especially
09:20given that the country is currently in a state of emergency.
09:23And that means that the decision by the parliament on Wednesday afternoon to appoint DCP Junior
09:28Benjamin as action, the Commissioner of Police will stand at this time.
09:34Well, Mark, I know that you have given a lot to Trinidad and Tobago.
09:37And let me take this opportunity to acknowledge the actions of the Parliament of Trinidad
09:42and Tobago with reference to the approval of Mr. Junior Benjamin to act in the Office
09:49of Commissioner of Police and also Mr. Kurt Simon to act in the Office of Deputy Commissioner
09:55of Police.
09:56And I do want to say, Mark, and you would have alluded to it, I just need to strengthen
09:59it a little bit.
10:00When you're speaking about the Office of Commissioner of Police, it's a very important
10:04office and it's an office that has very important functions.
10:08And just by way of legally speaking, just to share it with members of the public, in
10:12the public interest, is when you look at the emergency, you have certain orders that are
10:19afforded under the hands of the Commissioner of Police.
10:21That's one.
10:22Two, by virtue of the running of the organization or the management or administration, I should
10:26say more formally, the Commissioner of Police is the Accounting Officer of the Trinidad
10:30and Tobago Police Service.
10:31You are looking at, we are experiencing promotions, there are a number of litigations that are
10:37unfolding.
10:38And even from a context of the Firearms Act, you know, as the Commissioner being the sole
10:42authority under the Firearms Act for granting firearm users license and certificates and
10:47what have you.
10:48So, very important, in my respect, if we move to ensure that there's stability with reference
10:53to the running and the administration of the organization.
10:57But again, acknowledging the two appointments and, you know, I hope that this will at least
11:02breed some confidence in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service and most importantly
11:06to members of the public.
11:08I know that you all have been involved in the discussions in the public domain and I'm
11:14asking you all, you know, to be patient.
11:16This is not something that happens every day, Mark.
11:18This is something that, you know, if we look at the record, maybe about 40 years ago, with
11:25the previous Mr. Randall Burroughs, you know, I think who was on leave at the time.
11:28Yes, he was on leave, but this was not the case with this Commissioner.
11:31That's correct.
11:32He was actually in office, sitting Commissioner.
11:34That's correct.
11:35So, there's a difference there.
11:36Yeah, that's correct.
11:37And, you know, just to be, you know, reasonable to all parties, you know, I said on the press
11:40conference that, you know, we have to be responsible in terms of disclosure of information to ensure
11:44that we, ensure that the investigation is not prejudiced or likely to be prejudiced.
11:48But at the same time, you know, I am, you know, in a position of understanding as well
11:53to know that it's something that is, I would say, new to Trinidad and Tobago, and obviously,
11:57you're going to have different offices, you know, giving their perspective.
12:00But all in all, let us continue to uphold the rule of law and the best practices of
12:06the organization, and I'm asking persons, again, on this particular platform, to be
12:12patient and let us observe due process.
12:15Due process in the best interest of all parties, including Ms. Ella Hayward-Christopher, and
12:21also persons who may have been, you know, asking questions about whether, in fact, there
12:24is a discussion that are ongoing, discussions ongoing with the Director of Public Prosecutions
12:29to ensure that there's due process and fairness in every step of this inquiry.
12:32So I just wanted to share that this afternoon.
12:34Not just Trinidad and Tobago, of course, but the region and the world is looking on as
12:38well.
12:39I've had, you know, several journalists from across the region and also internationally
12:43contacting me and other colleagues about this ongoing story.
12:48So definitely, we're going to continue to monitor this story as well.
12:52All right.
12:53We just want to take a look now at our headlines.
13:18All right.
13:30Those are some of the headlines within the past 24 hours.
13:33And, of course, we just wanted to bring you up to speed with the numbers for the state
13:38of emergency.
13:39The update date is the 38th.
13:42There we go.
13:43And number of operations, 2,070.
13:46Priority offenders targeted, 1,872.
13:49Searches conducted, 13,289.
13:52Traffic operations, 1,797.
13:55Total persons arrested thus far, 1,592.
13:59Traffic offenses detected, 6,519.
14:0277 firearms recovered, 1,580 ammunition recovered.
14:08First drugs seized, 187,608 grams of cannabis and just over 1,200 grams of cocaine.
14:18So certainly, the police is continuing their operations across Trinidad and Tobago as we
14:25try to upend and uproot any kind of illicit operation or any kind of illicit activities
14:31taking place.
14:32And so important, Mark, you know, notwithstanding that, you know, there's a high-profile matter
14:35that's in the public domain.
14:37It's important for us to also appreciate and recognize that we are in a state of emergency
14:41and a state of emergency that, you know, was clearly declared where certain groups or individuals
14:47are causing or impacting public safety and security.
14:50So again, I'm happy that you have, you know, read out the statistics, you know, to show
14:54that, you know, the police continue to, you know, to make good efforts, I should say,
15:00with reference to restoring public safety and security.
15:02It's important for us to maintain our focus on the task at hand and not be sidestepped
15:07in relation to what's happening.
15:10It is a duty.
15:12It's a responsibility that we must embrace.
15:14All right.
15:15Just a reminder, the number is called 623-1711, extensions 1996 and 1997.
15:21We're going to take a short break and we'll be back.
15:23Stay with us.
15:28I've been living up here since 1998.
15:32Life was real enjoyable.
15:33You could feel real comfortable in the area.
15:36You could lie, you know, enjoy yourself and things, but now I don't feel comfortable anymore.
15:42Well, I have to watch myself because, you know, I'm not a crime thing, but, you know,
15:48just prevention better than cure.
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17:30It starts here with the Trinidad Express Newspapers.
17:44Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
17:45I'm your host, Mark Bassan,
17:47joined today by Athenia Glow with the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service,
17:50Corporal Zahir Ali.
17:52And of course, as we continue our discussions about crime,
17:55you know, crime has been something that is basically, you know,
18:00affecting all citizens across Trinidad and Tobago,
18:02and there was an incident recently in the Faizabad area,
18:05and today one of those residents spoke about, you know,
18:08how crime is affecting the Faizabad area with photographer Dexter Phillip of the Express.
18:12Let's take a listen in.
18:23He says,
18:41Do you feel protected by the police action?
18:52We don't know when to expect them.
19:23I just know, I just see the police siren coming up,
19:25and then I saw these, the police guys up right here,
19:27and I take down all the people, and arrest them.
19:31But that is a good idea.
19:33Because at least they got access to police.
19:35Because the police can be 24 hours in every house, in every area.
19:38So, at least that is a good idea.
19:44Alright, so there you go, Corporal Ali.
19:47Mr. Singh talking about, you know,
19:49there was an incident in the area, weekend,
19:51where gunmen were running through, shooting,
19:53a person was peeping out, I think, and she was injured in some way.
19:56Yes.
19:57And Mark, again, you know, just listen to that particular individual.
20:00You know, you could see the concern.
20:02You know, you could see the fear,
20:05and the concerns that he's expressing,
20:07and I think it's important for that particular division,
20:10not, you know, those police stations,
20:12and generally the TTPS must appreciate
20:15the demand for professional policing
20:18by members of the public.
20:19You know, I want to urge all officers,
20:21you know, to appreciate that responsibility,
20:23that pride, that professionalism,
20:26that respect, integrity, dignity, and pride.
20:28Very important, because persons are looking for professional policing.
20:32Alright, I think we have our first call on the line.
20:34Caller, good evening.
20:36Good evening. Good evening, Mr. Mark Basant and Corporal Ali.
20:41Good evening.
20:42Corporal, I saw you on the head table,
20:47at the presser, I think it was on Monday,
20:50and you had just said,
20:52cream always rise to the top,
20:55and it was a perfect fit.
20:57Now, I have learned a lot from you with respect to the law,
21:02and I'm going to bowl you a slow ball,
21:04and then I'm going to give you a fast pitch ball.
21:07The slow ball is,
21:09where can you direct me with respect to the Firearms Act 1601,
21:14I believe it is,
21:15where they say,
21:17a sniper rifle is a prohibited weapon.
21:22So you could tell me Chapter 1601,
21:24because I've gone through it,
21:26but my little knowledge,
21:27I haven't been able to connect the dots.
21:31The second issue,
21:32today I saw an attorney by the name of,
21:37I won't call his name,
21:39but he gave a live press conference,
21:44and it is with respect to warrant officers,
21:50and what he was saying in that press conference,
21:53is that a sergeant used one search warrant
21:59to do about five or six other search warrants,
22:04which the judge found to be violating good practices,
22:11and he made a judgment of,
22:13I think for each wrongful warranted,
22:17$100,000,
22:18so it cost me the taxpayer,
22:19not my pocket,
22:20but several hundred,
22:21$500,000.
22:23The confidence of the police now,
22:26from my standpoint,
22:28is very, very low,
22:29and the integrity of what is happening in the police service
22:32has to be front and center,
22:35and you all have to change that with what you are doing.
22:38There are several judgments on the behavior of police officers.
22:43The one in Barbados,
22:45the one with the police officer who arrested a businessman in Bamboo,
22:52all of these judgments were against senior officers in the police service,
22:59and we are not hearing what disciplinary actions,
23:04what the police is doing to do the corrupting
23:07and the preventing mentation,
23:10and by extension,
23:11retraining them.
23:13Have a nice evening,
23:15and I'll listen to your response after that.
23:19Thank you very much, Kola.
23:22Kola, two very important issues,
23:26and with reference to the issue regarding the sniper rifles,
23:29I want to ask you at this stage
23:32to exercise some patience with me.
23:36Very soon,
23:37the public will be getting some answers
23:39in reference to this investigation,
23:40so in order to protect the integrity of the investigation,
23:43I want to follow the advice that I gave before,
23:46not to disclose any information that will be prejudicial
23:48or likely to prejudice the ongoing inquiry,
23:50so please,
23:52I'm asking for the public's patience.
23:54Very soon,
23:55there will be some pronouncements
23:57in reference to the multiple searches.
23:59I'm not aware of that particular matter that you're speaking about,
24:01but what I can say is that
24:03with the incoming of the Administration of Justice Indictable Proceedings Act,
24:07it caters for an application for multiple searches,
24:12multiple premises under particular pleadings,
24:15so I do not know whether, in fact,
24:17the searches that you're speaking about
24:19was in accordance with the Administration of Justice Indictable Proceedings Act
24:23or whether it was just an abusive process.
24:25It's something that we'll have to look into,
24:27but thank you very much for bringing that,
24:29and what I can say with the other matters
24:31that you're alluding to,
24:33I always said on this particular program
24:35to Trinidad and Tobago and Zamata
24:37back on my last appearance on Beyond the Tape
24:40that where the rule of law is concerned,
24:43every single citizen
24:45is required to ensure that they uphold the rule of law
24:48and promote the rule of law,
24:50so if you are raising those issues
24:52through this particular forum being the voice of the people,
24:56I'm happy that you are taking the opportunity to ventilate it,
25:00and I hope that the necessary offices
25:02that should be impacted by the reports that you are making
25:05also move into action
25:07to be able to treat these issues expeditiously and diligently,
25:10so I want to thank you very much, Kola,
25:12and also thanks for your kind comments
25:13at the beginning of your remarks.
25:15All right, I think we have another caller on the line.
25:17Kola, good evening.
25:19Hi, good evening, Mr. Bassant.
25:21Good evening, Officer Ali.
25:23Good evening, sir.
25:25During the show, very quick,
25:27I have to summarize my question.
25:29I can't be too lengthy,
25:31but for a long time, I know, Corporal Ali,
25:34you always give that strength in your words.
25:37You always speak about, like, clinical analysis,
25:40investigation, research, thinking,
25:44implementing proper policies and procedures,
25:47strategies, investigation, investigation, investigation,
25:50until justice is achieved.
25:53You know, that concept, in a sense.
25:55Now, I just assume, and no confirmation,
25:58but kind of undertone within your words
26:02and that you have similar essence from other officers prior.
26:07Keeping that in mind,
26:09just yesterday, the officer on the show,
26:12he mentioned that you're touching on the clinical season
26:16and he was explaining something lengthy, lengthy, lengthy,
26:20and then he said it in a short phrase,
26:22you know, if you don't lodge a certain item,
26:27you wouldn't be allowed to attend.
26:29So that's a simple concept.
26:31If you don't submit an item,
26:33you wouldn't be allowed to attend.
26:35Now, for a person like myself,
26:37who gets the understanding of that
26:39and has absolutely no problem with that,
26:41and I say, you know what?
26:43Let's say the item is a library book.
26:45I choose not to submit my library book
26:47and not attend events.
26:50Does the law in reality, in society that we live in,
26:53this is, with all due respect,
26:55as home, how candid you would like to be,
26:58does the law, does the society penalize persons
27:02for not submitting their item
27:06in the sense of applying pressure,
27:09bullying, withholding opportunities from persons,
27:13et cetera, et cetera.
27:15Thanks for your time.
27:18Kola, I want to thank you very much for your submission.
27:21But the last part, you know,
27:23in relation to being clear as to what you asked,
27:25you know, I'm not in a position to respond to you
27:28because I didn't get that clearly.
27:29I don't know whether you could leave your question,
27:31your direct question with Jackie,
27:33and I'll be willing to respond to you.
27:35But, you know, thank you for your kind comments as well.
27:38And if I recall, Mark, I don't know whether this,
27:41as you said, Kola, on the last occasion,
27:44who spoke about, when we spoke about the defamation,
27:47and in terms of persons who may be speaking ill
27:50of other persons.
27:52I also want to, you know, ask that,
27:54if in fact that was the Kola,
27:55to also give consideration to a possible harassment
27:58in the scenario that he gave on the last occasion.
28:00So I just want to share that,
28:01but I look forward to your question.
28:03All right, we're going to take a short break,
28:05and we'll be back after this.
28:06Stay with us.
28:07♪
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30:29Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
30:30I'm your host, Marc Bessin, joined today by Athenia Tloho
30:33from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service, Corporal Zahir Ali.
30:36And I think we have a particular segment that is ongoing.
30:41It's called Voice of the People from the Northeastern Settlement.
30:45Let's take a look.
30:47♪
31:07I've been living up here since 1998.
31:11Life was really enjoyable.
31:12You could feel real comfortable in the area.
31:16You know, enjoy yourself.
31:18But now, I don't feel comfortable anymore.
31:21Well, I have to watch myself.
31:24I know it's a crime thing, but, you know,
31:27just prevention is better than cure.
31:30You know, while going from work to come here,
31:33you have to be watching your surroundings
31:35because you never know what could be expected
31:38in any crime situation like that.
31:41What measures do you take to protect yourself
31:44from becoming a victim of crime and, by extension, your family?
32:07Do you believe or think your community is actively trying
32:10to prevent crime within your area?
32:14Are you satisfied with the level of engagement of police
32:17in this area in terms of patrols, walkabouts,
32:21engagements with the community and the people that live here?
32:44Right.
33:00Right.
33:01So what would you like to see happen in your community
33:04to turn things around generally?
33:14Right.
33:37What are your thoughts on stiffer penalties
33:40for people that commit certain crimes?
33:43And should it be harsher to detain individuals from a life of crime?
33:48I find it should bring back...
33:50Like, you see, like, they should be more harsh.
33:55Like, for instance, like, if they find you at a firehouse
34:00or some kind of thing, and you know that it's a criminal,
34:03deal them to suit, don't let them come outside
34:06and get them beat, that kind of thing,
34:08because it's just like you're spoiling them.
34:10You know what I'm saying?
34:11Because they continue doing the same thing over and over.
34:14That's all.
34:18All right.
34:19So we're in an area that is riddled with gang violence
34:22and so on in the Northeastern settlement.
34:24There you heard one of the residents speaking
34:26about safeguarding him and his family.
34:29Well, Mark, again, you know, thank you very much
34:31for bringing, you know, a perspective from a member of the society
34:35and, I should say, a member of that particular community.
34:38And you know what stood out to me, Mark?
34:40Again, you've seen that, you know, persons' rights are impacted
34:43and that, you know, listen to the interview,
34:46the freedom of movement, the freedom of association,
34:49and I'm happy that he made the call as well
34:51for effective, you know, police engagement
34:53and even engagement by other ministries and public bodies
34:58with reference to determining exactly what may be required
35:02to ensure that there's youth and community development.
35:04So again, excellent.
35:05I think that this is where, in my respective view,
35:08we'll be able to move our society in an area of positivity
35:14so that persons are having an opportunity to identify
35:17what may be the gaps that need to be filled in a particular area
35:20or it may be applicable to other areas in Trinidad and Tobago.
35:23So I want to thank you very much and Jackie and TV6
35:26for that perspective.
35:28Well, certainly, as time goes along,
35:30we will be going to other communities as well
35:32and trying to talk to people in those areas as well.
35:34That's why it's beyond the tape voice of the people.
35:37We have a call on the line.
35:38Caller, good evening.
35:40Good afternoon, officer.
35:41Good evening, Mr. Mokhbasan.
35:43Good evening, sir.
35:44Two things, all right.
35:46What happened, we've seen a lot.
35:48I think we need to advertise a little more.
35:50We've seen a lot of vehicles driving with our headlights in the night.
35:55And I think that's something very, very important
35:59because sometimes these black vehicles, especially on the highway,
36:02if you drive with your back glass tinted,
36:05my glass is not tinted,
36:07but if you put some back glass, it's tinted.
36:11You know, a black vehicle coming out without lights,
36:14coming out without lights is very dangerous.
36:16And two, I think GPS needs to find a way to reach the public
36:23because what you're seeing now,
36:25because if you realize a lot of these people
36:28that they're supposed to be holding,
36:30they're going in other areas and hiding out.
36:34So what would be nice is if you could tell people,
36:37find a way to get there,
36:39that in case you see anybody strange in your area,
36:43a method that you could contact the head number
36:47and inform them, okay, recently I see somebody in this area
36:51and if they could deal with it.
36:54And that would be great.
36:56So thank you so much.
36:57And officers, keep up the good work.
36:59Mr. Mokhbasan, keep up the good work yourself.
37:03Mr. Mokhbasan, I left my number for you recently
37:07with the security guard.
37:09I wanted to talk to you about something.
37:13Leave your number off here for the producer.
37:15I don't think I got your number, right?
37:19All right, so there we go.
37:21I know that a senior officer was here a couple of days ago
37:24and he spoke about the migration of criminals
37:27out of the cities and going into these rural areas
37:30out far east, deep south, and so on.
37:32Yes, and I'm happy that the caller again raised that issue, Mark,
37:35because when we're looking at a state of emergency,
37:37yes, the police and the defense force
37:39have specific functions and role,
37:41but this is where the community now has a role
37:43in terms of if you have seen persons
37:44who should not be at a particular location
37:46or they are foreign to a particular area,
37:49I want you all to be acting on that suspicion
37:51and communicate with the anonymous channel
37:55or if you want to be communicating with the police station
37:57or any officer who you may trust,
37:59bring that to their attention
38:00because that migration is something
38:01that is important for us,
38:02especially when you have applications
38:04that have been made for preventive orders
38:06under the hands of the honorable minister.
38:08You're going to have persons
38:09trying to evade those applications,
38:11so I'm happy that you raised that caller.
38:13Thank you for that,
38:14and I will take the opportunity
38:15to engage the assistant commissioner
38:17and the senior superintendent of traffic and highway patrol
38:19to see whether there could be more vigilance
38:23in reference of vehicles
38:24that are on the roadway at night
38:25without proper lighting to address your issues
38:29because I think that creates a threat
38:31to public safety and security as well
38:33from a motor vehicle and road traffic context.
38:35All right.
38:36Thanks for that, corporal.
38:37We have another caller on the line.
38:39Caller, good evening.
38:40Good evening.
38:41Are you hearing me?
38:42Good of you.
38:43Yes, we are.
38:44Go ahead.
38:45Good evening, ma'am.
38:46Okay.
38:47Good evening, officer and Mr. Mark.
38:49Officer, I looked at you when you were in the team there,
38:53and you looked really very, very concerned.
38:57You know, I looked at, you know,
38:58everybody who was sitting down
38:59and who they were talking and all that,
39:02and you looked really, really concerned,
39:04and I could understand why because of what has happened.
39:08We're not going to get into anything
39:10because we're still, you know, dealing with it.
39:14But, you know, officer, when we realize that many times
39:18when officers arrest people
39:22and they do not have enough evidence,
39:24many times that happens,
39:25and I want you to assist them
39:27because if they cannot do it properly with their own,
39:31then how other people will feel?
39:33What sort of trust will they have with officers?
39:36So I want you to really help them
39:38so that they will know that what they are doing,
39:41do it properly so that when anybody has to say anything,
39:45it means that, you know, we did it properly
39:48and this is what has happened because it's sad.
39:51It's really, really sad.
39:52It makes me feel, though,
39:53that there is something in that mortar beside the person.
39:56Before you all say that,
39:57there's something in that mortar beside the person.
39:59That's my first point.
40:00My second point is considering the guy who died,
40:04you know, on his job in the water.
40:06It's so sad when up to now they haven't seen, you know,
40:09but we know very well if a body go into a water.
40:12That's not saying one place.
40:13They don't say one place.
40:14You don't know exactly where it is,
40:16but it's so, so sad that, you know,
40:18up to now they cannot get something, you know, to bury.
40:21It's really, really sad.
40:22But, officer, you all need to continue
40:25and we need to pray for you all because that is the only way.
40:28This is SOE time
40:29and people see they can do what they want,
40:31do people what they want, come in the house,
40:33because they feel they can get away.
40:35That has to stop.
40:36Something has to be happening
40:38so that they can be caught
40:41and they can be dealt with expeditiously.
40:44All the best, all of you, and be safe, all of you.
40:47It's kind of like you have a lot of rules.
40:49I hope those rules are really acknowledged by the persons.
40:52Thank you very much.
40:53All right, Kuala, we want to thank you for your comments
40:56and your questions, Corporal Ali.
40:58He will respond after this short break.
41:00Stay with us.
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43:12It's the one and only D.R.E.
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43:28Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
43:29I'm your host, Mark Bussan.
43:30Joined today by Lieutenant Lowell Corporal Zahir Ali
43:33of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
43:35The floor is yours, sir.
43:36Yes, sir, Mark.
43:37Just a bit of reference to the caller.
43:39Caller, again, I thank you very much for your submissions.
43:41And I just want to just, you know,
43:43when you made the observation that I was concerned,
43:46you know, it's a matter of high public importance.
43:48Or I should say international importance.
43:50And it's important with the position that I hold,
43:54I ensure that there's independence,
43:57there's impartiality, and most important,
44:00there's respect for due process.
44:01So it's important for me to ensure
44:03that those principles are upheld in any investigation,
44:07and especially the particular one,
44:09which is, as I said, attracting a lot of public interest.
44:12But reference to the issue of the officer's mark
44:17in terms of investigations,
44:19you know, there's always room for improvement.
44:21And, you know, as we go along,
44:23I'm sure that there will be areas that, you know,
44:25that will require review, require improvement.
44:28But, you know, that's the job.
44:29But I just want to leave with Trinidad and Tobago,
44:31with that particular issue that you raised,
44:33that in law, there's a test.
44:37It's a full court test when you are considering
44:40whether to initiate criminal proceedings.
44:42And for the members of the public,
44:43a full court test, it has two stages.
44:45Number one, there's an evidential stage
44:48that one must pass.
44:50And that evidential stage, basically in simplicity,
44:53requires that the evidence must afford
44:55a realistic prospect of a conviction on the evidence.
45:00And once you get past that evidential stage,
45:02then you go no more to the public interest stage,
45:05and that is whether any public interest
45:07or prosecution is justified.
45:09So, it's not something that you just pull out of the sky.
45:12It's a well-thought-out process.
45:14And most importantly, again, at the press conference,
45:18and I'm going to continue to say it,
45:19that there's continued consultation
45:21with the Director of Public Prosecutions
45:23to ensure that that full court test is satisfied
45:27before there's an initiation of proceedings.
45:29And why am I saying that to members of the public
45:30this afternoon?
45:31It's that just as the public is interested
45:33with that particular full court test,
45:36I am certain that they're equally interested
45:39to ensure that the actions that the police
45:41would have taken, Mark,
45:42is not one that it turns out to be a frivolous attempt.
45:46So, I'm asking members of the public
45:48to appreciate that there's a process
45:50that has to be followed.
45:52There's two tests that has to be satisfied.
45:54And in due course, you're going to see
45:57the conclusion of this matter one way or the other.
46:00All right, I think we have another call on the line.
46:02Caller, good evening.
46:05A pleasant good afternoon to you, Mark,
46:08and to Corporal Ali.
46:10Good evening.
46:11My question is relatively on the lighter side.
46:16Let me just try to condense it as much as possible.
46:21We have vehicles on the road,
46:22so an accident happened.
46:25The two parties went into the police station
46:28and made their report on that very same day,
46:32presented the documents.
46:34The officer took the information.
46:36Everything was legitimate.
46:39One party accepted that they were wrong in the situation.
46:44Here we get kind of sideways that I'm trying to figure out.
46:51The person went to the insurance with the documents
46:55to claim for the damage that was done to the car.
46:59And upon reaching there and getting back the information,
47:04they were told that the vehicle was sold the year before.
47:08Now, that is kind of disconcerting to me
47:11because you know we have many persons
47:13who have vehicles on the road.
47:15And I was just trying to figure out what can the police do
47:19because these two parties went in.
47:23They looked over the documents.
47:25The police would have seen that the insurance is valid
47:28on both persons taking the information.
47:31But there and there, when the person sent in his claim
47:34and waited, they found out now that that vehicle has been sold
47:41and now they're having trouble in collecting the payment
47:46for the damage done to their vehicle.
47:48So I was wondering if there's any fraudulent charges
47:53went on there with the individual
47:55who went into the police station,
47:57probably knowing that the car was sold
48:00but the insurance was probably valid for that time.
48:04So I'm asking what can that individual do
48:07because I am also a driver on the road
48:09and this is not something that scares me.
48:12So I await your response.
48:15Thank you very much, Kola.
48:18While I mark this whole situation,
48:20I like to inspect documents.
48:22I like to see the facts, you know,
48:24so I can pronounce concisely.
48:26But just, you know, to hint to the Kola
48:29and persons who may be listening,
48:31road traffic accidents and when a report is made,
48:34it's important for the police
48:36to investigate those matters properly.
48:38And many times, Mark, while we may be looking at liability,
48:41it's important as well that the police must appreciate
48:44that the driving that may have brought about the accident,
48:49you have to ensure that it didn't or was not in breach
48:52of any road traffic signs or regulations
48:54because that brings us a situation
48:56where you want persons of intended prosecution.
48:58In this particular instance,
49:00you are seeing something that resembling a person
49:02who may be enjoying a certificate of insurance
49:04for a particular vehicle,
49:05but there may have been a transaction
49:06with a vehicle previously
49:08and there was no transferring of the ownership
49:10of that particular vehicle.
49:11And under the Motor Vehicle and Road Traffic Act,
49:13if I recall, there's particular sections
49:15that can be invoked to be able to hold persons
49:18who may be culpable for entering into transactions
49:23and not following the time period
49:25to transfer those vehicles.
49:26So I'll take this opportunity for members of the public
49:29who are enjoying a motor vehicle,
49:31ensure that if that motor vehicle,
49:34you are the owner of that vehicle,
49:36ensure that the certified copy represents that fact.
49:39And if you were in a transaction,
49:41comply strictly with the Motor Vehicle
49:43and Road Traffic Act and regulations,
49:45ensure that that vehicle is transferred
49:47to the legitimate and current owner
49:50so that we will not have a situation
49:52where you are driving on a public road,
49:54there's an accident,
49:55and then the police now recognize
49:57that you may have been at fault
49:59with reference to not complying
50:01with the Motor Vehicle and Road Traffic Act.
50:02But caller, I want you to pursue that matter
50:05with all vigor to ensure that due process is followed
50:09and the parties that are liable is found liable
50:14and those who may have breached
50:15the Motor Vehicle and Road Traffic Act,
50:17ensure that there's initiation of proceedings
50:18in those matters.
50:20Speaking of accidents, Corporal Ali,
50:22we had a pretty horrific accident
50:25in the Toko area sometime this morning.
50:28They're involving, it seems, a car and a truck,
50:33you know, a serious collision here.
50:37It seems that at least we're seeing
50:39one injured person there lying on the ground.
50:42And you know, going up into that area there,
50:44those roads are quite narrow
50:46and you have to kind of like ensure
50:48that you're not going over the speed limit.
50:50Yes, Mark.
50:51And you know, Mark, every time, you know,
50:52I think about and see these scenes,
50:54you know, your choice of a vehicle
50:56should be a choice for convenience.
50:59But sometimes, you know,
51:00it turns out to be in the opposite,
51:02that it impacts your safety and another person's safety.
51:06So again, I want to call on persons on the roadway,
51:08and you spoke about the particular road
51:10that persons are, you know, moving about.
51:14Some very sharp corners.
51:15That's correct.
51:16My producer pointed out.
51:17I recall.
51:18That's correct.
51:19And you know, if there are signs,
51:20please observe the traffic signs,
51:21observe the speed limits in those areas,
51:23and I'll even call Mark on the regional cooperation.
51:26Let us be proactive and visit those areas
51:28and see whether, in fact, signs are properly erected,
51:31whether there's proper signal, proper notice
51:34to ensure that, you know, our members of our public
51:37are traversing the roads of Trinidad and Tobago
51:40and their provisions ensure that they are safe and secure.
51:43All right.
51:44We're going to take a short break,
51:45and we'll be back after this.
51:47Stay with us.
51:48♪♪
51:59Ooh, the place too hot for this old lady.
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52:06Mom, just don't turn on the AC.
52:08The fans work just fine, and they cost less.
52:10Honey, we cannot manage the heat like this.
52:12Now, I've done some research.
52:13We could reduce the electricity bill
52:15just by getting an inverter AC and by using it wisely.
52:18Set the AC to a moderate temperature,
52:20and we could use the fans to circulate the cool air.
52:23That sounds like a smart compromise.
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52:26Solar power to the people.
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54:48-♪♪
54:57Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
54:59I'm your host, Mark Bassan, joined today by Lieutenant Lowell Corporal
55:02Zahir Ali attached to the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
55:05And I know we just have a couple of minutes left,
55:08and I know you're pretty busy.
55:10You're still part of this particular investigation and so on.
55:14But what has been, you know, your morale been with your fellow colleagues?
55:21You know, I know it might be difficult at some stage with certain individuals
55:26and how, you know, you all are involved in this investigation
55:30that centers around the police commissioner.
55:32Well, Mark, you know, to be frank and open, you know, as I said before,
55:35this is not something that, you know, we are accustomed to.
55:38And when someone's not accustomed to something,
55:40obviously it's going to affect persons in different ways.
55:43But, you know, every person that, you know, interact with me, I share with them
55:47that go back to the oath of office that you took.
55:50And if you go back to that oath of office and the specific part
55:53to ensure that you uphold the laws of Trinidad and Tobago,
55:56if you are seeing that there's a suspicion or a reasonable cause to believe
55:59or suspect that a rule of law may have been breached,
56:02and as a police officer on oath, you have a role and function
56:05and a duty to ensure that you do a fair and impartial investigation.
56:08So I am using that to respond to the officers to ensure that, you know,
56:12that they understand that we are doing nothing
56:15but ensuring that we uphold the rule of law.
56:18And if perhaps along the way there are things that we need to review,
56:23like in anything else, we'll be quick to ensure that we do the necessary review
56:27to see where we can improve in terms of how we go forward.
56:30But definitely something that needs consistent communication with members of the TTPS.
56:35And, you know, I respectfully advise or share with my senior officers in the TTPS
56:40to ensure that every opportunity that we get, we impart that knowledge and experience
56:46and, most importantly, the wisdom for the officers who are required to perform
56:50and uphold the rule of law.
56:52So it's not an easy task, but it's not difficult either.
56:55But I'm happy that you asked that, Mark.
56:57And, you know, I want to say to members of the media, Mark, on this platform,
56:59that members of the media know that you all enjoy a freedom of the press
57:03and you promote democracy, which I am a supporter of.
57:07But, you know, when you see matters of this magnitude, you know,
57:10I'm asking kindly of you all to also exercise your patience.
57:13And, you know, I'm not saying that you all are irresponsible,
57:16but I want you all to continue to be responsible in terms of ensuring
57:19that the public gets the correct information and also to appreciate
57:23where there is a criminal investigation of this magnitude,
57:26that while we may want to show you our hands, we have to be very circumspect
57:29because you have to anticipate that this may head towards the courts of Trinidad and Tobago.
57:35So, you know, let us have a nice balance.
57:37But members of the media, I'm happy that you all have brought alive this matter
57:41for the members of the public who are seeking answers.
57:43And as much as we can give, we will give in our press conference and in any other avenue.
57:48But thank you all very much, you know, for ensuring that fairness is at play at all times.
57:53Most certainly, I think remaining fair, objective, accurate, truthful in all of our reports,
58:01not just here but across the media landscape, it's extremely important.
58:06And we all try to exercise that and being fair and, of course, reaching out to everybody.
58:11When a matter affects X, Y, or Z, we try to get the comments of everybody
58:16and give you that privilege to do such.
58:20We appreciate that.
58:21All right. Remember, repeat tonight at 11.30.
58:25We run tomorrow at 11 o'clock.
58:27The TV6 News is up next. Stay with us.
58:31♪
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