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00:00This program contains some material that is unsuitable for young children.
00:30Beyond the Tape will be back after these messages.
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03:38This Christmas, the Church of Jesus Christ invites you and your family to rediscover the true spirit of the season with the Light the World campaign.
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04:39Good evening Trinidad and Tobago and welcome to Beyond the Tape and of course those of you who are locked on globally as well.
04:46We're smack in the middle of the week.
04:47Yes, it's Wednesday.
04:48Some of you call it Humday.
04:49That means we're sliding into the weekend.
04:51And I'm speaking of sliding into the weekend.
04:53Many of you are preparing for your Christmas dinners, Christmas parties.
04:57We continue to ask persons to be aware of your surroundings and please take it easy on the nation's roots.
05:03Now, as we get ready to wrap up the 16 days of activism against gender based violence,
05:09we will talk a little bit more on that and share on that on the 16th day, which is today.
05:14Now, I want to give you all some more information as we continue with the missing couple, Derek and Clarabelle Tadu.
05:26And the search and rescue on Monday night continues their search and we are asking persons with information to please contact the police at 555-999 or the hunters search and rescue at 799-1453.
05:42Now, we know today's Wednesday apart from it being the middle of the week, but you know on a Wednesday, it's legally speaking Wednesdays.
05:49And for usual, we have our attorney at law and director of policy and community support at the Ministry of Homeland Security, Sahir Ali.
05:58And we'd like to welcome him once again with us. And we are happy that you're here with us this evening, Mr. Ali. How are you today?
06:04Well, I'm okay, Whitney. And thank you very much for a warm introduction. And I'm happy to be here with you as well.
06:09Yes, yes, yes.
06:10To share this afternoon. You know, let me say good evening to you again. Good evening to Jackie and our family on, you know, Beyond the Tape, TB6.
06:18The citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago, my law enforcement colleagues, persons who are listening and viewing out of the jurisdiction.
06:24You know, Whitney is important for us to start. And I want to join hands with you and basically the entire citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago.
06:33Today, we are also celebrating Human Rights Day. It's a very important day.
06:39And I want to link it with what you have just identified in terms of the recognition or the 16-day recognition of domestic violence,
06:46which, you know, continues to be occupying our headlines, you know, which is a very serious concern for us.
06:51But I want to say, you know, to Trinidad and Tobago, this day, Human Rights Day, it's of significance for us, Whitney.
06:58And it's not only significant from an international context where the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, a very significant declaration,
07:06all the way back, if my memory serves me well, 1948, recognizing the importance and the dignity of the human being.
07:14Yes.
07:15And I want to stress on that this afternoon because I'm linking it to domestic violence.
07:18The dignity of the human being and, you know, how we behave and how we react and how we treat our fellow human being
07:24and in some cases how we treat ourselves because you have reports of suicide and so forth.
07:29So it was important, you know, to raise the focus in relation to Human Rights Day and very significant back home.
07:36In our constitution, be legally speaking, we as a people in Whitney have hold firm to the principles and the recognition of the fundamental rights and privileges in our constitution.
07:48And the most significant of all, the right to life.
07:51So both from an international context, from a domestic context, this human rights is of significant matter.
07:57And, you know, while it may sound very formal, the way that you have introduced me here this afternoon,
08:02the way that I have spoken about and the recognition of our fellow human beings is as simple as it can be when we are speaking about Human Rights Day.
08:10So I thought it was important, you know, to join with you to wish all human beings or I should say on behalf of all human beings to all human beings.
08:19Happy Human Rights Day.
08:21And I hope that we really recognize the importance of respecting each other, treating each other.
08:27And last but not least, from a natural, from a higher being.
08:30Sorry.
08:31Yes.
08:32We are the highest of creation, Whitney.
08:33And we have to behave like we're the highest and the best of creation.
08:37Yes.
08:38So I'm happy that you give me the opportunity to share those early introductory remarks this afternoon.
08:41Yes.
08:42And, of course, I must mention, with regards to these 16 days of activism, where we wrapped up things at the Brannara Promenade this evening.
08:48Literally, a few minutes ago, they officially wrapped things up.
08:51And I understood it was a successful event that took place there a few minutes ago that was available to the public from 3 to 5.
08:59But clearly, they extended it because persons wanted more information.
09:02And speaking of more information, if you need assistance or getting more information on how to deal with the situation, you can still reach out to the TTPS by linking with the Special Victims Unit.
09:13And they will be able to assist you further, not just for 16 days.
09:17Whenever you need them, they are available.
09:19So we're going straight into a major story that was circulating.
09:23It's very disturbing, by the way.
09:25And I'm sure the TTPS will be giving us more information on that.
09:29Now, soldiers rob Maloney Gardens residents.
09:32The police are investigating an armed robbery in which four men dressed in camouflage and claiming to be Trinidad and Tobago.
09:39Defense Force personnel stole cash from two residents of Maloney Gardens.
09:45Around 10.45 p.m., the victims were on the second floor of Building 12 with other residents when four masked men in full TTDF uniforms approached them.
09:57The assailants identified themselves as soldiers but refused to show official ID.
10:02The men ordered everyone to the ground, then took $6,000 in cash from one victim and $1,000 from the other before fleeing in a marked TTDF vehicle marked 5TTR275 onto the Churchill Roosevelt Highway.
10:19Of course, the crime scene investigators visited the scene but found no substantial evidence as such.
10:25And I'm sure they will continue investigating, Ms. Ali.
10:29Well, again, Whitney, you have read some very, very concerning, some very significant matters for the, you know, listening and viewing public and most importantly for law enforcement.
10:39When you are hearing that persons who are allegedly dressed in camouflage, you know, representing, you know, more resembling the Trinidad and Tobago Defense Force.
10:48And, you know, I spoke about Human Rights Day.
10:50This is a clear, clear, clear example of a breach of human rights.
10:54This is persons who supposed to have the opportunity to enjoy what?
10:58Their monies.
10:59Comfort of their home.
11:00The enjoyment of their properties.
11:01And this is what they are meeting in terms of where crime and criminality is concerned.
11:04And, again, you know, when you see that persons are now not afraid, you know, to, based on the report that we are seeing, to, you know, be clad in defense force uniform in some cases, police uniform or uniform that are closely resembling.
11:19Yes.
11:20It's of significant concern for all of us, Whitney.
11:23Let me ask you this, Mr. Ali.
11:24Sure.
11:25With regard to this same said video.
11:26Yes.
11:27We are in an SOE.
11:28Yes.
11:29And we know that in this case, if I'm wrong, you can correct me.
11:31Yes.
11:32But the little that I know, the defense force, they are able to arrest individuals or apprehend individuals in this time with us being in an SOE.
11:40Beautiful question.
11:41I'm happy that you raised that issue immediately.
11:43Yes, under the state of emergency regulations, the Trinidad and Tobago Defense Force is also empowered to exercise similar rights and privileges like the police service.
11:52Yes, of course, they will want to be, you know, working in tandem or in direction with the police service to ensure that they're effective.
11:57But, yes, they have powers under the emergency regulations that they can exercise.
12:01So, again, and why I'm saying I'm happy that you make mention of that, you know, it goes to show that when you are giving that wide powers to various agencies, it's important to be, you know, monitoring that very, very close to ensure that there's no abuse in reference to the powers that are given to particular law enforcement agencies.
12:21So, thank you very much for raising that.
12:22Yeah.
12:23I hope we can get an update on that.
12:24Moving right along.
12:25Thief smashes windows, steal $60,000 withdrawal at Starlight Plaza.
12:30So, police are investigating the theft of $60,000 from a pickup truck parked in Starlight Shopping Plaza, Diego Martin, on Tuesday afternoon.
12:39Around 5.20 p.m., a 29-year-old Diego Martin man reported to the Forest Police that he had earlier withdrawn $91,800 from a said financial establishment at Ellis Lee Plaza in Maraval before making several stops to deposit portions of the cash and refuel his vehicle.
13:01He told officers that he later went to another bank ATM at a Starlight Plaza to pay his credit card bill.
13:10When he returned, he found the front left window smashed and a brown envelope containing $60,000 missing.
13:17He said he gave no one permission to take the cash.
13:21I don't think anyone would be sending anybody.
13:24I mean, Mr. Ali, I am still confused here.
13:29We have been stressing on this show for a very long time.
13:32Yes.
13:33When you're holding this amount of cash, at least put it on your person.
13:36At least.
13:37Yes.
13:38But, you know, Whitney, I want to take a...
13:39I know while, you know, many officers and yourself and others may have advocated heavily to ensure that the citizenry, the victims, you know, the alleged victims of the case may be, you know, be a little more aware and, you know, take some corrective actions or I should say some preventative steps.
13:54I want to change the status call a bit this afternoon.
13:57This, the citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago, they are entitled to the enjoyment of their property.
14:04Yes.
14:05They're entitled to their freedom of movement.
14:06They're entitled to be safe and secure.
14:08And I want to say to the law enforcement agencies and even the citizenry who are part of the law enforcement agency or should be seen themselves as part of the law enforcement agencies.
14:16So, let us reverse it and send a message to the criminal element and say, hey, what's happening?
14:21You all need to stand back.
14:23You all need to desist and allow the law abiding citizens to be able to enjoy, enjoy life.
14:29And again, we're speaking human rights.
14:30Yes.
14:31Right.
14:32And, you know, I want to conjunct it as well, Whitney, by asking the law enforcement agencies that...
14:37And just today, I recognized, you know, when I was just moving about, persons who are committing an act of trespass and are going to use a very simple act of trespass where you are in a particular location, whether day or night, with an unlawful purpose.
14:52And how do you know that you're there for an unlawful purpose if the law enforcement agencies are not engaging persons?
14:57This could be a situation where, what you just read, a crime of opportunity or it could have been a situation where someone is closely monitoring someone to be able to get the opportunity to be able to pounce on that individual.
15:07So, for law enforcement who are listening to us this afternoon and the other agencies that have similar powers, municipal, the transit police, the special reserve, the regular service, the soldiers that you spoke about, the defense force, let us engage and let us challenge persons that we are seeing based on suspicion who we believe may be out of place, you know, quote unquote.
15:28And let us ask questions. Let us engage them to find out what are their purpose of being here so that, you know, you have a heightened element of engagement.
15:37If you don't have that, Whitney, persons are going to get the opportunity to sit down and barely conduct a proper surveillance, a proper monitoring.
15:43So, I just want to raise that this afternoon. Let us challenge persons that we are seeing.
15:48And you talk about the Stylite Shopping Plaza. Let us exercise that vigilance and challenge persons that we believe may be out of place.
15:55Yeah. And I'm hoping also as well from my observation over the weekend going on that they need more police presence at the malls and as you mentioned, places where a lot of activities happen because it's that time of the year where persons are looking to shop.
16:09Yes. And they'll be moving as much as we may stress. Yes. With individuals not working with cash and being aware. Yes.
16:15We also need the presence of the TTPS in those said locations.
16:18So, just to share a perspective, I think we may want to offer as well, and perhaps it is probably happening, every single division or every single region should be looking at an operational plan that suits their particular area.
16:30Yes. So, you may find, Whitney, that Portasmin operational plan may be different from what probably Tunapuna or maybe Aruka may have because of different economic activity, different geographical areas and so forth.
16:41So, it's important for us to keep thinking. And may I say, I have always said that when we're speaking about operational planning, it must be fluid.
16:49If you have an operational plan today, Whitney, one report or one piece of intelligence can shape that whole operational plan to go in a different direction.
16:57So, we have to be feeling the pulse as we go forward.
16:59Yeah. Well said. Let's move right along with the SOE update for day 147. Let's take a look.
17:07Number of operations, 10,970. Target priority offenders, 3,389. Searches conducted, 72,885. Traffic operations, 7,808. Total persons arrested, 4,540.
17:25Total persons charged, 2,462. Traffic offenses detected, 40,898. Firearms recovered. We're seeing now an increase with revolvers at 61 with a total of 241. Ammunition recovered, 1,746 rounds.
17:45That we're seeing increase with a 9 mm total of 3,327. And no increase that we have seen thus far from yesterday today with the dangerous drugs seized.
17:57Of course, the TTPS is working hard, Ms. Ali.
17:59And I want to endorse that. Let me compound that immediately in terms of the efforts of the police service and other supporting agencies. There's a lot of effort. You know, there's a lot of activity. There's a lot of exercise. And we know it's a mammoth task, Whitney.
18:09Yes, it is.
18:10No one is going to say that in 24 hours that will bring crime, you know, under, you know, a comfortable level of management. But it's important for consistency and persistence. And can you to read, you know, the crime trends.
18:20But please, Jackie, if you can just take me back to the statistics, please. And I want to go back to the repeat offenders. The number, if you can, the target priority offenders, 3,389. A question to you, Whitney, to the citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago.
18:38Who are these 3,389 persons and where they are this time? And the reason I'm putting it to the public like that is that if we are saying that they are priority offenders, it means that they probably are what? Robbery offenders.
18:50They are probably crime offenders. They are probably housebreaking. They are probably larceny. They are probably home invasion. The fact of the matter is that these 3,389 persons, we as a citizenry need to take note of these individuals.
19:02And perhaps at another occasion, perhaps it's probably good to have these persons made aware that we are looking at them so that if there is any intention to commit crimes, whether individually, collectively, you know, you know, we can be in a position of to proactively be able to prevent some of those crimes.
19:20But we cannot be saying to the 389 offenders and not knowing, well, who are these persons?
19:25Yes. And that may require, Whitney and I, I want to accept, it may require some legal thinking as well. And you know why he said policy wise, I know the Honorable Minister of Homeland Security is thinking about how do we legally, where persons may still be enjoying a presumption of innocence.
19:42They are not convicted, but how can we still create some legal window to be able to, for the duty of care to the citizenry to know, well, who is this repeat offender?
19:51Where is he? To be able to take the necessary actions or to be able to monitor them, to bring them to the attention of law enforcement.
19:59So very significant area, but I thought it was important just to demonstrate 3,389 repeated offenders. Who are these persons and where are they?
20:07Yeah. At this time, let's take a look at what's making today's headlines.
20:41And those were the stories making your headlines this evening. At this time, we'll take a quick break and we'll continue with more after this.
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24:41Now, we are straight into day number 16, the final day, as we highlight what happens if a protection order is breached.
24:50Now, a person against whom an order has been made and who, A, has had notice of the order and, B,
24:59contravenes any provision of the order or fails to comply with any direction of the court commits an offence and is liable.
25:10On the first conviction to a fine of $50,000 and imprisonment for one year.
25:16On a second conviction to a fine of $150,000 and to imprisonment for three years.
25:24On any subsequent conviction to a fine of $250,000 and to imprisonment for five years.
25:32Mr. Ali?
25:33Well, Whitney, I'm happy that you have read that and Jackie, please leave this up a little bit for me.
25:39You know, I just want to be a little figurative.
25:43This raises my pressure.
25:45And, you know, I don't normally speak like this.
25:48And, you know, raising my pressure will prompt me, you know, to take a position with the Honourable Minister of Homeland Security, perhaps tomorrow morning.
26:00Whitney, a close glimpse of this.
26:03This is a protection order that's supposed to be preventing harm or preventing a breach of the peace, protecting the victim.
26:12This is a tier system.
26:14And look at the first limb.
26:16Notice of the order, but look at B.
26:18Where you have commits an offence and is liable on one.
26:22Yes.
26:23One year and $50,000.
26:24You know that first breach could mean murder?
26:26Yes.
26:27It may not have an opportunity for a second limb where, on a second $150,000 and three years, and third, on a subsequent conviction to a fine of $250,000 and five years.
26:39If we are serious about life and looking at the right to life and what we are seeing in Trinidad and Tobago, this definitely if we want to do justice to the 16 days of observance in my respective view legally.
26:51And I ask this accessory to join us. Join us to be able to advocate for an immediate amendment to this particular provision where the protection order means something.
27:02Yes.
27:03So a person who our protection order is issued against should be thinking twice to even breach that order because that order, if that order is breached, it's like committing an act of murder.
27:12Yes.
27:13Because a very significant matter, where we are looking at emotions, Whitney, as I said before, and I'm going to repeat it, the first contravention can mean murder.
27:20Yes.
27:21Or grievous godly harm.
27:22So, you know, I'm very passionate about it, but thank you very much for reading this and for demonstrating and showing to the citizenry.
27:30This is what exists in all law books in terms of the tier system, and I think the time has come for a radical reformation of this particular section.
27:38I believe the imprisonment needs to be increased as well because when we have persons who may have breached a set order, let's say they do pay the fine, they didn't commit murder, thank God, in that regard.
27:49Yes.
27:50And they are in prison, they are there premeditating their next action.
27:53Yes.
27:54Because when they are released, they are now obviously blaming you for the position that they are in.
27:58That's correct.
27:59So then what is next for the victim also?
28:00What are they putting in place for the victim who is now having to deal with the person who will be now released after serving their time and could still be a target.
28:08And again, excellent point in terms of how you balance in the interests of justice.
28:11And permit me please, just to go back up, part A, a person against whom an order has been made and who, A, has had notice of the order.
28:19Again, having notice of the order, and this is where we are speaking about the person to whom the protection order is issued against.
28:27So the person has knowledge that order has been issued against me, so I am required to behave properly.
28:32Where is the policing, and I am using the word police not to mean TTPS.
28:37Yes.
28:38Where is the policing of that order to ensure that the victim is properly protected?
28:42And I will tell you this.
28:43We seem to be hiding these things in my respectful views.
28:46To say, okay, we send it to our police station, our police station will have done record.
28:50The time has come to place the protection orders that the public, that community, that victim lives, should know that there is a protection order on file.
28:57So, if they see the offender, who should not be within 100 meters from the individual, coming to the location, they know, can I let the police and say, hey, look, something is happening here.
29:06Yes.
29:07So, we need to, in my view, we need to, you know, widen that concept of notice.
29:12Not only notice to the station and the offender, notice to the community or the family where that victim is concerned.
29:18Yes.
29:19Make that person uncomfortable.
29:20We have a call on the line.
29:21Let's take that call.
29:22Hello, good evening.
29:23Good evening, Mr. Husband, and good afternoon for the director.
29:28Good evening to you, sir.
29:30You need to take some blood pressure tablets, but more importantly, more importantly, I am going directly to you, so you could pass on this to the Minister of Defence.
29:47As a stakeholder, I want to thank the police service for making some, lots of improvement I am seeing, in particular, the homicide rate and the amount of crime.
30:04More importantly, beyond the tape on this network, I believe you will have to review that.
30:13And let me explain why you all have to review it.
30:17I have seen where on the electronic, this program, all the positive of the police service is being highlighted.
30:27But the sister company to this network has been putting, from my vantage, the TTPS at variance of what you are trying to do.
30:39There is a proliferation of all the wrongs that is happening printed on all the print media, both or three of the national newspapers.
30:48The other question is, how much is it costing the TTPS and, by extension, me as a citizen, have to pay to keep this program on this network?
31:00I am saying you all have to think critically on this and see if it's time that you all look elsewhere.
31:08That is my thing, because the Commissioners of Police say they want him to fail.
31:13And you know where I am talking about that, who want him to fail.
31:17And there are more pieces of those organizations who want him to fail.
31:21That is where I put in my discussion.
31:23I go on, sorry to increase the blood pressure again, but tell the Minister of Defence, if he doesn't get the Q, I will write him on it.
31:31I go on, have a nice evening.
31:34Well, thank you very much, Kola.
31:36Thanks for, you know, giving me a remedy.
31:39But the pressure that, you know, I've made mention of, you know, just to reiterate, is the pressure for radical and expeditious change for the benefit and the best interest of Trinidad and Tobago.
31:52But, you know, I want to thank you very much for your contribution.
31:55Very sensitive matters, the caller has raised, Whitney.
31:57Very, very sensitive.
31:58And that will require me to, you know, you know, pay a little deeper focus and, you know, to analyze it a little more, you know, before I respond to it.
32:05But thank you, Kola, very much for your participation and input, as always.
32:09Yes.
32:10We will take a break.
32:11And when we come back, we'll continue with more.
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35:25And we are back legally speaking Wednesdays.
35:39We have another call on the line.
35:41Let's take that call. Good evening, caller.
35:43Hello, good evening.
35:44Good evening, sir.
35:45Good evening, sir.
35:46Good evening, sir.
35:47This call was about beauty or directly who was.
35:49But because it's on proceeds of crime, I need to talk to Mr Ali.
35:53Mr Ali, a question to you is, is it safe to say that no one should benefit from the proceeds of crime?
36:02And at this scenario, what I want to bring forward is that if you have someone who is imprisoned,
36:09and he or she has to get an attorney, and as we see in local power,
36:15they have their persons from their community putting down work to pay their attorney.
36:21How is there, how could we view that in the context of proceeds of crime being used to pay someone to represent that imprisoned person?
36:32I will listen off it. Thank you.
36:34Thank you very much, caller.
36:35Very, very sensitive question, caller.
36:37But let me say it to you immediately.
36:38And you yourself probably have answered it.
36:40You have identified that the proceeds of crime act speaks about persons who are benefiting from criminal activity,
36:46whether they're in possession, whether they're disguising, whether they're entering into transaction with those monies that have been generated.
36:54And in this case, you link it to probably the retaining of an attorney to represent the criminal element.
36:59Now, while everyone has a right to an attorney, in terms of, you know, persons who are charged,
37:03has a right to an attorney to represent their interests,
37:05you are right that if the police is aware that a particular individual or a particular group, Whitney,
37:11is involved in money laundering or they are benefiting from the proceeds of crime.
37:16And this proceeds has now been directed to transactions, whether it be contractual agreements with attorneys and other professionals
37:22or even disguising monies in properties and so forth.
37:26The law is there to enforce the law.
37:28So if a person has knowledge that a person is in fact engaging in criminal activities
37:33and the monies that they are entering into a transaction with is in fact proceeds from crime,
37:37nothing stops the police from dealing with the matter.
37:39So, again, Kola, you have now pushed me and I'm happy that you asked the question
37:43where, again, it comes back to the issue of enforcement.
37:46Yeah.
37:47You know, sometimes when we look, we have, I've just now, I've spoken about reform,
37:51but there are also laws that are within the law books that sometimes we find a difficulty in effectively enforcing those laws.
37:56Are you getting in another hole here quickly?
37:58Sure.
37:59If the defense attorney knows the money is dirty money and that's what they're using to pay them,
38:04what should that attorney do then?
38:06Well, you know, that's an area that they were looking at very, very closely in terms of what level of due diligence that the attorney is exercising
38:13when someone is going to retain them in terms of where that money is coming from,
38:16whether it's coming from under a bed, whether it's coming from a bank account or whether it's coming from a legitimate source.
38:22So, it's an area that is ripe, in my view, for, you know, reform to be able to exercise due diligence.
38:27And that's why I'm saying that I'm happy that the Kola raised the issue to be able to respond to him by saying that,
38:32okay, nothing stops the police from investigating the matter.
38:35And if you find that a person is knowingly engaging in a transaction, knowing that money is from criminal conduct,
38:41nothing stops the police from proceeding in the matter.
38:43But attorney-client privilege is something that, like law, you have to be careful with.
38:47Well, attorney-client privilege, in my respect of view, is governed by the Legal Profession Act and the ethics.
38:52But when you come to the criminal law, if the criminal law is saying that any person who is aware that money
38:57that is derived from criminal conduct, meaning it's criminal property and engages in a transaction with the money,
39:02can be subject to an investigation.
39:04So, I'm just saying in a context where nothing stops investigation, nothing stops the enforcement of it.
39:09And equally, it's an area that is ripe, in my view, for further development, you know.
39:14And while you may have pictured an attorney, there are other professionals.
39:17We have some persons doing surveying, you know, you may want to engage in a property,
39:21but you don't know where that person is getting that money from to engage you to say,
39:24well, okay, I need to mark off this lot of land because I'm interested in it, and many other different contexts.
39:28So, again, Kola, thank you. Enforcement, whether it be blue-colour or white-colour matters.
39:33Yeah, we have another call. Hello, good evening.
39:35Sure.
39:37Hello, good evening.
39:38Yeah, listen to the panel.
39:40Mr. Ali, I am so upset to be upset about this country right now.
39:45We get, we reach, you know. I tell you, we reach this country.
39:48You see them legislators and them?
39:50There are some Mickey Mouse jokers all day, you know.
39:52You have Prat and Morgan in the law law, and they tell people, you have Prat and Morgan.
39:56You have Prat and Morgan giving way to the criminals and the murderers.
39:59As far as I concerned, murderers have no right to bail.
40:03How could you give me some murderers?
40:05What is going on in this country?
40:06The victims, the victims have no right to bail in this country.
40:08And I blast the vex at the whole scene.
40:10What is going on in this country, in my country?
40:12I have blessed one of them.
40:14Yeah.
40:15Well, Kola, thank you again.
40:16You know, Whitney, these callers, you know, I love these callers.
40:19Well informed.
40:20I love these callers because, you know, they are part of the reform.
40:25They are part of law making.
40:26They are the ones to hold institutions to account.
40:28And again, this caller raised a very significant matter in terms of the Prat and Morgan ruling.
40:33And that is in relation to persons who are convicted for the offence of murder and ensuring that within a five year period that they exhaust all their appeals, including petitioning human rights courts and committees.
40:44You know, permit me, you know, to place into the domain that the former Attorney General, Mr. Ramish Lawrence Mara, Senior Counsel, would have clearly identified that there's a need to manage that process strictly.
40:57So you don't have a situation where someone is convicted of murder and the exhausting of the appeals and petition of a human rights court.
41:05You have to manage those things within a five year period to ensure that you have the opportunity of the death penalty.
41:11And significantly as well, we have heard, if I recall, you know, other senior counsels have identified, should we now reach a stage where we qualify murder?
41:20Because you may have a murder, which is a crime of passion, which is a sudden or, you know, another situation where it may be meditated.
41:28Yeah, correct.
41:29Or another situation where it's gang related, which is more violence.
41:32So you need to be able to have some tier system so that you can have the full effect.
41:36And, you know, there's justice where the death penalty is concerned.
41:39But caller, excellent.
41:40And this is the level of thinking that we need, Whitney, to be able to move our society in a positive way.
41:46We need to take a break.
41:47We'll be back.
41:50We'll be back.
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45:37and we are back we have another caller on the line hello good evening caller
45:52hello good evening hello good evening good evening um my question is um concerning productivity in the
46:04ttps are the taxpayers getting value from money meaning that we pumping more and more money in ttps every
46:16year ttps getting more staffing they are recruiting people in mass um over time if you're recruiting more
46:29more people shouldn't over time uh which are being paid should be reduced but that's the product we are talking about
46:41um officers being absent who's charting all these things who is looking at all the issues about sick leave and officers coming late to work officers leaving early
46:55are we really monitoring the productivity aspect of the ttps i don't want to go in right now with the
47:04repair system that you all have plenty of police cars being backed up and whatever
47:09that's another thing but i'm really concerned about productivity how do we measure that
47:15and is it being effective thanks a lot thank you
47:19thank you very much call and i see with nidicola is you know they are balancing their position this afternoon
47:25we're operationally administratively legally this is our administrative question and again
47:29a well-placed question in terms of like in anything else when you're looking at public institutions and we
47:34are looking at um even in a private context how do we measure success how do we measure productivity
47:40a very significant word and you know when you look at you know our watch words
47:43what we have discipline tolerance and production production so a very very significant word and i'm
47:49happy that you raise that issue i'm hoping cola that the hierarchy of the police service and even
47:54the police service commission and so forth you know maybe is an opportunity for them to look within the
47:59ranks and see whether in fact we are getting value for money um because we are we are aware that you
48:03know the the the citizenry is who basically employed the police service to work for them protect and serve and
48:10that's a great question and i hope that the decision makers will really pay a particular
48:14attention to that and find some meaningful way to really measure and see whether in fact we are
48:19achieving the level of productivity that is required because you know it's not one area you can look at
48:23to measure it when you're looking at the police service and a dynamic organization so you have to
48:28measure it both from a crime operational but importantly administrative as well yeah we have excellent
48:32we have another call hello good evening hi good evening good evening sir with regards to the wrecking policy
48:42of the ttps i'm observing that police officers seem to not adhering to their standing orders with respect
48:53to the wrecking or even what the the high court has said the high court has deemed wrecking or has called
49:01wrecking an extreme measure that should only be initiated if the owner of the vehicle cannot be located
49:10and the vehicle is causing obstruction i have seen recently where a citizen reach on time while the vehicle is
49:18being hooked up and the police officer continues to wreck the vehicle i don't know why this is being done
49:28when things like this happen is what police officers is disciplinary action because it is it is way out
49:37they're moving beyond what their standing orders has instructed them to do i do not know if they are being
49:44offered some improper inducements to behave in that manner but this must come to an end thank you very much
49:52thank you
49:53grateful for your your your reporting caller and let me give you the assurance publicly
49:58that immediately after the program i'm going to call the deputy commissioner of police operations if not higher up
50:03and relay this concern that you have raised on behalf of the citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago
50:07this is your wrecking um with me it's not the first time i've heard it and perhaps maybe these officers
50:13who are engaged in the activity must be properly brief now he has now he has directed us to the
50:17police standing orders i'm going to go a little bit higher which is the law yes the law is clearly
50:23spelt out yes you might have some room for improving the law but it's clearly spelt out in terms of the
50:28decision to wreck and remove a vehicle and i'm happy that he used words like on causing obstruction
50:34i'm happy to use the word where maybe the driver can be found yes and you don't have to make an
50:38announcement well i i don't want to use the word announcement but at least you should be conducting
50:43inquiry within the vicinity to determine whether the driver can be um located so that you can take
50:48the necessary action right but again it is falling on foot i'd wrong and i will raise it with the deputy
50:54commission operations especially where there's a lot of initiatives you know festive um shield and other
51:00initiatives that are ongoing um we'll take the opportunity to make sure that those officers are
51:04properly brief at least to resolve some of the issues you and other persons may be having yeah we have
51:09another caller hello good evening caller hello good evening hi good evening good evening yes yes good evening
51:17i just want to make a statement and then ask um a question um one i think under the um the 16 days of
51:24advocacy on domestic violence um i want to um find out from the the corporal wasn't the um electronic
51:33electronic monitoring bliss with it was part of um a prevention strategy that once you have been um
51:42arrested for domestic violence that you're going to place on a bracelet that would help to protect
51:48the um the um victim and also um we can track the um we are with their the running or the movements of
51:57the individual i don't know if that was part of the of the law and the corporal probably um you know
52:01speak to that and then secondly um this has to do um with evidence-based pollution uh many papers today
52:09and i see where some emergency maintenance person was awarded 134 000 for wrongful arrest um i think
52:17evidence based on policing would ensure that they have everything in order before they arrest someone
52:23and then secondly too free of murdering tobago couple prosecution fears to present evidence um but
52:30the committee is considered evidence-based policing i would look not here thank you do we have time to
52:36respond yes okay um caller again three very significant issues um whitney they seem to be very very much
52:43in the area policy and i'm happy that these scholars are actually moving me and causing me to think
52:47this afternoon into relation to the electronic monitoring um i'll just have to you know confirm
52:52something i don't want to answer recklessly but i if i recall correctly they were thinking about
52:57looking at the electronic monitoring from a domestic violence context as well i know it was in
53:01relation to very serious offenses um that made the the application um for the use of electronic monitoring
53:08but i'll just have to confirm it um and the the second area with reference to
53:13the monitoring the bracelets no that was the first the bagel couple the the matters that are going
53:18before the court and then you've seen a dismissal yes um for you know for no evidence and so forth and
53:23you know may i say that that's a very very sensitive matter and um there's a lot that i have to say on
53:27that um you know perhaps sometimes the way it's reported you're not getting the gist of it but
53:32in my respect for view i think there's a need again to have a inter-ministerial committee to look
53:38at the present criminal justice system and with reference to the movement of matters from the
53:43police into the courts domain and really and truly whether in fact these matters have been properly
53:47managed um because you may be hearing that okay it we are in need of evidence but the question is what
53:53is the evidence that we are in need of or is it that the matter may be prejudiced by a failure to
53:58file particular um formal documents so i think it's an area that we need to look at because i'm
54:04i am also seeing things happening and again um where i sit i'll try my utmost best to direct some
54:09focus and i think there was one other issue that he raised um but it slipped me for now but again thank
54:14you very much for raising those issues um on beyond the tape all right so the wrongful arrests i think
54:20that was what we right so wrongful arrests and again this come with training and development
54:25sometimes whitney we recognize that okay we are very interested in a result
54:30and the result may be okay arrest and charge but if you're not careful in terms of the due process
54:35so in effecting an arrest a simple process maybe did you inform the person of these reasons for the
54:40arrest so you are acting in good faith but when you are now examined in terms of the steps that you
54:45have taken and what is required with due process you realize you may have run afoul and at this point
54:50in time there may not have been a need for arrest or at that time a charge may have been um preferred
54:55prematurely yeah so again it's an area where training and development and for the law enforcement
55:01officers to appreciate that they are enforcing the law they are not acting in the way that they feel
55:08and it calls for rigorous um training and development and i and continuous training may i say as a matter of
55:15fact i'll say publicly with the transit police that you know i have some oversight over um at policy
55:20i've recently written to the commissioner police asking for training for the transit police to ensure
55:25that they are up to the devil that one will require especially where you've seen heightened
55:30criminal activities and then you are coming into christmas and carnival where the activities is likely to
55:34increase as well so you want your officers to be competent and to ensure that we don't have a situation
55:40where we are putting monies in the offender's pocket unnecessarily miss sally as usual we
55:44appreciate you it is all about legally speaking wednesdays and you gave so much information and
55:49more still to come because it could go on and on we wish you nothing but the best and to tnt and
55:54the rest of the world thank you for viewing get ready for news coming up next at 7 pm until tomorrow
55:59god's my life be back at it god bless
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