00:00The most vitriol we receive is in the name of Jesus.
00:03They wish us bodily harm in the name of Jesus.
00:07Obviously, that's not Christian.
00:08That's not in alignment with anything we know.
00:10I can't even compute what you just say.
00:11In the name of Jesus.
00:13As the good Lord said, go to hell.
00:16Close your eyes and imagine God.
00:18What does God look like, if anything, to you?
00:21Is it an old man sitting on a cloud?
00:23A woman in a rocking chair?
00:25A very wise owl?
00:27What gender do you assign to God?
00:30And why?
00:30Like many other faith traditions,
00:32Christianity has drawn definitive lines on the basis of gender.
00:36The gender identity of a Christian can impact
00:38how and where they are allowed to worship
00:40and often the types of leadership roles they are allowed to hold.
00:44Historically, straight white men are the most frequently championed
00:47for leadership positions in the church.
00:49Many denominations, like the Roman Catholic Church,
00:52don't allow women to lead or be ordained.
00:54And certainly, if you don't identify neatly within a gender binary,
00:58things get even trickier.
00:59Remember this?
01:01From funerals to pride parades,
01:03these street preachers condemn entire communities.
01:06Yeah.
01:07It should come as no shock that some of the most exclusionary
01:10and harmful messages about queer and trans children of God
01:13are being taught from the pulpit.
01:16Where to begin?
01:17Let's go straight to the source material.
01:19It is estimated that there are around 450 English translations of the Bible,
01:24which was originally written in Hebrew,
01:26and none, and this is true, were transcribed by God or Jesus.
01:30So which one is correct?
01:31And what might have been lost or altered in translation?
01:34I'm visiting the office of Dr. Lizzie Byrne DeGear,
01:37a Catholic feminist and Hebrew Bible scholar,
01:40to learn more about what's really in this sacred text.
01:42You can actually look at these texts that we all have,
01:47and you can find really powerful experience of divine feminine,
01:51of women with power,
01:53of spirituality that calls us all well beyond sexism
01:57and well beyond misogyny.
01:59And we just have to be honest about the fact that, like,
02:02using the pronoun he for God is a habit,
02:07but it has no theological justification.
02:10The word Elohim in Hebrew is actually a plural word, Elohim,
02:15that once monotheism started to become entrenched,
02:20they grammatically made it masculine singular,
02:22but Elohim is plural,
02:24and it comes from the fact that we understand the divine in many ways.
02:29It's becoming clear to me that much of what we've been taught
02:32about biblically-based gender roles has been shaped by social context
02:36and the very human people doing the translating.
02:39The first African-American, the first person of color,
02:43the first woman in the collegiate church history
02:47to become a collegiate senior minister,
02:49moi, 15 years ago.
02:50This is my predecessor, Gordon,
02:52who was committed to hiring a woman
02:54to replace him.
02:55And so that was a pretty prophetic thing for a man to do.
02:58He wasn't going to hire any men.
02:59It looks to me like progress.
03:03On these walls are all the collegiate ministers
03:05that have served this church,
03:06and one of them was a slaveholder.
03:09Look how far we've come.
03:11I visited Middle Collegiate Church,
03:14the oldest continuous Protestant church in the United States,
03:17led by senior minister, Reverend Jackie Lewis,
03:20who made history as the first woman and person of color
03:23to hold her position.
03:24Did you always want to be in a leadership position?
03:27I always wanted to be a pastor
03:28since I was almost nine.
03:32I didn't see women preachers,
03:33but I had the best female Sunday school teachers.
03:36And I think they saw my calling,
03:40and they really affirmed it.
03:42Mrs. Dixon was my Sunday school teacher
03:44from the time I was in second grade till high school.
03:47Her steadfastness, her leadership,
03:48I was clear that she was a minister,
03:50even though she wasn't a minister.
03:51I think a lot of times we hear about, you know,
03:53women not serving in leadership positions,
03:55but yet I'm hearing about your Sunday school teachers.
03:57It doesn't really matter to me if they weren't pastors.
04:00No, they were pastoring me.
04:01Right.
04:01Throughout time,
04:03people have interpreted scripture
04:04in ways to codify, solidify their own presumptions,
04:09biases, prejudices.
04:10Every human being is creating
04:12what they think God is like all the time,
04:15what their image of God is
04:17and the relationship they have with God.
04:19It is an ongoing process.
04:20You can see in our stained glass windows
04:22that we've picked, there's women.
04:24There's Jesus talking to Mary Magdalene
04:26when he is resurrected.
04:28There is Jesus over here
04:30having a conversation with Mary and Martha.
04:32That's breaking boundaries.
04:34Does this make sense?
04:35That God wouldn't appreciate LGBTQIA people
04:38if we're also saying God created us all in love?
04:41It's a struggle sometimes
04:42when people are throwing verses at you
04:44and people you care about
04:45and communities you care about.
04:46But then you can argue on interpretation
04:48and translations.
04:50When I imagine a trans child
04:54coming to understand,
04:55I think I might be a girl in this boy body.
04:58I'm like, thank you God
05:01that the child is becoming aware
05:03of who they really are.
05:05And our job as a culture
05:07and as a society, as a church,
05:08is to make safe spaces for people to be.
05:10In my own personal journey,
05:12when I was presenting as like real female,
05:15I was the furthest from God
05:17because I was the most concerned
05:19with what the world thought of me.
05:21I wanted to know that
05:21when I walked into every room
05:22that I didn't make people uncomfortable
05:24because I was so uncomfortable
05:26with who I was.
05:27As soon as I was able to
05:28really have this moment of like,
05:30I want to cut my hair,
05:31I've wanted to do it for so long.
05:33Like, you know,
05:34as soon as I was able to do that
05:35and like when I felt safe
05:36and I felt comfortable
05:37and I felt loved,
05:38only then was I able to have
05:39any type of a personal relationship
05:41with God.
05:42God creates out of love.
05:44God creates love out of love.
05:46We who are in the image of God
05:47are all awesome.
05:48So when I'm talking to you,
05:50I'm learning a little bit more about God
05:51because you're in God's image
05:53and when you're talking to me,
05:54the same is true.
05:57We only know God
05:58because we know each other.
06:01I'm about to get that tattooed on my body.
06:03Let's do it.
06:03Well, let's do it together.
06:05Jackie made me think about
06:06how becoming the most authentic version
06:08of yourself,
06:09regardless of gender,
06:10can bring you closer to God.
06:12But is it possible to do that
06:14within traditional doctrinal parameters?
06:17Well, it is a beautiful fall day
06:19in New Jersey,
06:20so we here at State of Grace
06:22thought that it would be
06:23the perfect time
06:23to talk about gender.
06:25The leaves are changing
06:26and so are our perceptions
06:28of gender, okay?
06:29We're going to a convent
06:31and we're going to speak
06:32with a nun
06:33who has a pretty different interpretation
06:36and understanding of her gender
06:39as it relates to her faith.
06:41Pro tip from nuns.
06:44The best way to warm your hands
06:45this winter.
06:47All the coolest nuns are doing it.
06:49I started out as a little kid
06:51in the early 70s
06:54and reruns were
06:56The Flying Nun.
06:57I was actually going to ask you
06:59about The Flying Nun.
07:00And I watched The Nun's Story
07:02and I remember thinking
07:03when I was like seven or eight years old,
07:05that's me.
07:06I think all our life
07:07when you're trying to find
07:08your authentic self,
07:09you see it somewhere
07:11and you go,
07:12I could fit in with those weirdos
07:14because I'm the same kind of weirdo.
07:16And people thought that I was crazy.
07:18I was told by my family
07:20and by my friends,
07:21by the entire culture,
07:22that women were supposed to
07:24get married and have children.
07:26That never felt right to me.
07:28I didn't feel called to marriage.
07:29I didn't feel called to children.
07:31I felt called to God.
07:33Sister Monica spent 14 years
07:35paying off her financial debt
07:37in order to become a nun,
07:39since you have to be debt-free
07:40to enter the sisterhood.
07:42You're here six times a day.
07:43Yeah, six times a day
07:44coming here and praying.
07:46I left the Southern Baptist faith
07:48when I was in my mid-teens
07:50because I had so many gay friends.
07:52I went to the Roman Catholic Church
07:53and I thought,
07:54can I belong to a denomination
07:56where women cannot be priests
07:58and where there isn't inclusion?
08:01Sister Monica's commitment to inclusion
08:03led her to the Episcopal Order.
08:05Do you feel empowered as a nun?
08:08I do.
08:09In my secular life,
08:10I was very shy,
08:12very low self-esteem.
08:13I didn't look people in the eye.
08:15I looked at the floor.
08:16At the first big gathering
08:17we had here when I was a novice,
08:20I remember going around
08:21and talking to people
08:22and shaking hands
08:23and being really excited
08:24and really happy,
08:25and I thought,
08:27I'm not shy anymore
08:30because this is my tribe.
08:32It felt like I had been in exile
08:34all my life
08:35and I had finally been allowed
08:37to come home.
08:37How do you feel
08:38like being a nun
08:39is counter-cultural?
08:40I think because I've rejected
08:43our culture's mandate for happiness.
08:46I've rejected romantic relationships.
08:50I've rejected having children.
08:52I'm rejecting this model of happiness
08:55and saying there's another way to be happy.
08:58But what happens when your gender
09:00is deemed invalid by church teachings?
09:02Listen,
09:03I know this is a video
09:04on the internet about gender,
09:06so I anticipate some spicy responses.
09:08Just to get ahead of a few things.
09:10Gender and sexuality
09:11are entirely different.
09:13Gender is who you are,
09:14sexuality is who you like,
09:15and being transgender
09:16is not a mental disorder.
09:17So let's not look stupid
09:18in the comment section
09:19and say that.
09:20Google is free.
09:21Now back to our feature presentation.
09:23This is Dr. Paula Stone-Williams.
09:25She is a pastor, speaker,
09:27and gender equality advocate.
09:29Before coming out as trans in 2012,
09:31she was a prominent
09:32evangelical pastor and CEO.
09:34Her son Jonathan
09:34followed in the family business
09:36and is also a pastor
09:37at Forefront Church
09:38here in Brooklyn.
09:39We started with an organization
09:40that was fairly conservative.
09:42I wasn't ready
09:43to put the label
09:44progressive on myself.
09:45It was made clear to you
09:46that there were certain boundaries
09:48you couldn't cross
09:49in order to maintain
09:50sort of the status
09:51of your community,
09:53your faith community.
09:54It was very implicit.
09:55As soon as you do that,
09:56you're going to lose money
09:58and you're going to lose people
09:59and your church
10:00might not ever get off the ground.
10:01And then my dad
10:03decides she's going to transition
10:05to the female gender,
10:06which will do a lot to a person.
10:09Yeah.
10:10I had a lot of power
10:11and a lot of influence
10:12and so I was pretty convinced
10:13that from my rather lofty perch
10:15of power and influence
10:17that I could bring about change
10:18from within.
10:19And it might take,
10:20oh, I don't know,
10:20a few thousand years.
10:21But, you know,
10:22I thought once I came out,
10:24they can either think,
10:25oh my God,
10:25we were wrong about Paul's character.
10:26We thought he was a person
10:27of character and he's not.
10:29Or they could think,
10:30oh, wow,
10:31we really must be wrong
10:32about our view of gender dysphoria
10:33and what it means
10:34to be transgender
10:34because we know the character
10:36of this person
10:37and so we need to re-examine the issue.
10:39You know,
10:39didn't exactly expect them
10:41to choose the former.
10:42I lost all of my jobs
10:43within seven days.
10:44In 21 states,
10:45you cannot be fired
10:46for being transgender,
10:47but in all 50,
10:47you can be fired if you're trans
10:48and you work
10:49for a religious corporation.
10:51I saw that there was
10:52a crisis of life for her.
10:53I saw that she was depressed
10:55and to me,
10:56that was heartbreaking.
10:57And so I said,
10:57you know,
10:58if my dad's going through this,
10:59there's got to be thousands
11:00of other people
11:01going through this similar disowning,
11:03for lack of a better term,
11:04from their faith
11:05or from their families
11:06or from their friends.
11:07And so as a church,
11:08we publicly said,
11:09we are going to affirm
11:11the LGBTQIA community.
11:13We don't have to be uniform
11:14in that belief right away.
11:15We can question it,
11:16we can disagree,
11:17but this is the stance
11:18our church is going to take
11:19from here on out.
11:20During my message,
11:21while I was preaching,
11:21I watched, you know,
11:22five or six people
11:23get up and leave.
11:23Oh, for real?
11:24Yeah, yeah.
11:24I would say people gave it
11:26a month, two months.
11:28And when they were like,
11:29oh, he's really doing this,
11:30he's really going to be an ally
11:32for the LGBT community,
11:34this church isn't for us
11:35any longer.
11:36We lost lots of people,
11:37lost thousands of dollars,
11:38and it was such a good move.
11:40We could sit here
11:41and be comfortable
11:41and say, okay,
11:42well, the money's still rolling in
11:43and there's a lot of people
11:44coming through my doors
11:45and we could feel good about that.
11:46But when there's literally
11:47people out there
11:47who are told that
11:48they're not loved
11:48and people whose families
11:50are disowning them for this,
11:51we need to step up
11:51and become safe spaces.
11:53If there was anything Jesus did,
11:54it was hold space
11:55for the people in the margins.
11:57I mean, when he's dealing
11:58with Mary and Martha,
12:00they're confronting him.
12:01They are women of wealth.
12:03They're pretty much
12:04in charge of their brother.
12:05They're everything we think
12:07women in Bible times were not.
12:09The way that the patriarchy,
12:11really from the time
12:12of Augustine on,
12:13has twisted the story
12:16is in a direction
12:17that does not fit
12:18with the historical Jesus.
12:33This is Jamie Brisehoff
12:35and her daughter Rebecca.
12:36When Rebecca came out
12:37to her family as trans,
12:38the Brisehoffs rallied
12:39to not only support their daughter,
12:41but spread awareness
12:42about LGBTQ plus issues.
12:45Furthermore,
12:46Rebecca's dad is a pastor,
12:47so much of the Brisehoffs' activism
12:48is especially focused
12:50on engaging with faith communities.
12:51Oh, yeah, there's a sign.
12:53The original.
12:54The sign that started it all.
12:56Wow.
12:58People of faith are doing
12:59the loudest and most significant damage
13:01to the trans and non-binary
13:03and LGBTQ communities,
13:05both personally and politically.
13:07We really feel that the only way
13:09we can combat that negativity
13:11is with people of faith
13:13standing up and saying,
13:14no, this is actually not in alignment
13:17with how we understand our faith,
13:19that you can be Christian and trans
13:20and you can be Christian and gay
13:22and that they're not mutually exclusive.
13:25You guys have chosen
13:26to be quite visible.
13:27Yeah.
13:27And I wonder why.
13:29I mean, we follow your lead largely.
13:31Um, well, because I think
13:34it's really important
13:36for kids like me
13:37to have the support
13:38and knowledge
13:40of that there's someone else
13:41fighting for them.
13:43It's a lot scarier for kids
13:44that don't have supportive parents,
13:46that don't have good policies
13:47in place in their schools,
13:48that don't have everything
13:50she's had that has made her successful.
13:52And so we really felt like
13:53it was our opportunity
13:55to use that privilege
13:56to make the world
13:58a safer place for those kids.
13:59I get told it's child abuse
14:01on a daily basis
14:02by like strangers
14:02on the internet
14:03or that we're forcing this
14:04on her at some point.
14:06Like, I couldn't force her
14:07to eat a vegetable
14:08like that she didn't like
14:09if I tried.
14:10I can't imagine
14:11that I could force her
14:12to be someone who she isn't.
14:13Whoa.
14:14Watch out.
14:15I've been on one of them once
14:16and I wiped out.
14:17This is the LGBT agenda
14:19they warned you about.
14:21We always said
14:22colors are for everyone,
14:23clothes are for everyone.
14:24Be any kind of boy
14:25you want to be.
14:26She just wasn't a boy.
14:28And so now
14:28we know she's a girl
14:29and we say
14:30be any kind of girl
14:31you want to be.
14:31Because like
14:32it's not about
14:33just switching boxes
14:34it's about breaking down
14:35those boxes
14:36and just showing up
14:37fully as ourselves
14:38and saying that
14:39like society doesn't
14:40get to determine
14:40what that means.
14:42What about like
14:43some church communities
14:44that would be like
14:44okay well that's not
14:45important for us.
14:46I think they're like
14:47well we don't want to
14:47make church about
14:48you know
14:49LGBTQ identities
14:51like that's
14:51like we're church
14:52like we're Christians
14:53as our identity here
14:55kind of thing.
14:56What they don't understand
14:57is that by not creating
14:58that space
14:59by not being
15:00loudly, boldly
15:01and joyfully welcoming
15:02you are
15:04excluding people.
15:05We get hate mail
15:06we get death threats
15:08that we're all going to hell
15:09that she's going to hell
15:10that she's like
15:10the devil incarnate
15:11she gets kind of
15:12excited about that
15:13what she's like
15:14Do I look like
15:15the devil incarnate?
15:16No.
15:17If they're not
15:18in my lives
15:19in my community
15:20then why should I care?
15:25She has been so well loved
15:27and supported
15:28that because of that
15:30she can respond
15:31in love
15:32even to the most hate
15:35Today we're having a
15:36workshop at church
15:37that's about creating
15:38safer and more welcoming
15:39communities for LGBTQ people
15:41We have to do the work
15:42to prepare
15:43like you can't say
15:43all are welcome
15:44and not change anything
15:46about your community
15:50I am going to review
15:51some of like
15:52the 101 stuff
15:53so we're all on
15:53the same page
15:54and then we'll talk
15:55about tangible ways
15:56we can make our spaces
15:57and our communities
15:58more welcoming
15:59to all people
16:00Most importantly
16:01we respect
16:02self-identification
16:03so we can listen
16:04to the words
16:05that people use
16:06to describe themselves
16:07and mirror that language
16:09back to them
16:10even if we don't know
16:11all of the terminology
16:12I believe God
16:13loves us all
16:14so by attending here
16:16I'm learning
16:16some tools
16:18that I need
16:19to make an
16:20incredible difference
16:21and attending
16:23more pride events
16:24like you said
16:24will give me more
16:25information
16:25more education
16:26I think that's
16:27what we all need to do
16:28Go ahead
16:28I just wanted to say
16:29it's really incredibly moving
16:31to be here with this community
16:32and to see so many people
16:35that are like
16:35really fired up
16:36to support us
16:37because we really need y'all
16:39like and we can't do this
16:40on our own
16:40this is the sort of
16:41Christ-like love
16:42that I want to feel
16:44and I want people
16:45to know and understand
16:46from the Christian community
16:48I'm a transgender free
16:51and because of Jamie
16:52is why I came back
16:53to this church
16:54I left the Catholic church
16:55I didn't feel like
16:56we belong
16:56especially with the rhetoric
16:58coming out
16:58I saw everything
17:00that Jamie's done
17:01done for her daughter
17:03and this is why
17:04I came back
17:05to this church
17:05you all being here
17:07matters a lot
17:08like more than I can say
17:09thank you
17:16my time in New York
17:18and New Jersey
17:18left me reflecting
17:19on the mind of God
17:20the impossibly mysterious
17:22and creative mind
17:23of God
17:24when we stand
17:25before our creator
17:26what criteria
17:28will be used
17:28to judge our character
17:29everything I've experienced
17:31tells me that gender
17:32or gender presentation
17:33is no indication
17:34into the condition
17:35of a person's soul
17:36I've met people
17:38who have expanded
17:38and challenged
17:39the way I think
17:40about gender
17:40especially as it relates
17:42to Christian teachings
17:43why is the Bible
17:44still a reference point
17:45to justify harm
17:46against some of the least
17:47among us
17:48biblical context
17:49is so important
17:50and ignorance is frankly
17:51inexcusable
17:52when the stakes
17:53are so high
17:54when we discover
17:55our authentic selves
17:56and celebrate
17:57and support others
17:58for doing the same
17:59we get just the tiniest
18:00glimpse
18:00into the infinite
18:02and divine
18:03thank you for watching
18:05Refinery29
18:06for more videos
18:07click here
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