- 10 hours ago
On this episode, of Go Off Sis, we are joined by celebrity hairstylist Lacy Redway and the founder of Kaleidoscope Hair Products, Jesseca Dupart. We’re talking about the real and unfiltered truth of Black women’s hair journeys, from early rituals and first relaxers to big chops, braids, and rediscovering their natural texture. Lacy also let us in on some Black celeb hair secrets.
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ABOUT REFINERY29
Refinery29 is a modern woman's destination for how to live a stylish, well-rounded life. http://refinery29.com/
SUBSCRIBE TO REFINERY29
Subscribe to the Refinery29 channel: http://bit.ly/subscribe-to-r29
Follow Refinery29 on Instagram: https://instagram.com/refinery29/
Follow Somos on Instagram: https://instagram.com/r29somos/
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00:00Welcome back to Go Off Sis. We are back. Episode is sponsored by Target. We're so excited to be back.
00:00:07Happy Black History Month. Today we are talking all about our black hair journeys. We love talking about black hair.
00:00:16We're going to continue to do that. I am Kathleen, the Senior Director of Entertainment at Refinery and at Unbothered.
00:00:22I got to introduce you to my sis's, my friends, my co-workers, my fave people, Sandy, Jess.
00:00:30Introduce yourselves.
00:00:31Hey, sis's.
00:00:32Hey.
00:00:33Hi, guys. I am back in the seat. I'm like, I'm going to say the place that raised me. No,
00:00:40no, no. But I'm excited to be back and talk about all things here. If you guys don't remember me,
00:00:47I am Sandy. I lead our brand partnerships at Unbothered. And I'm just excited to go off all the time.
00:00:55Hey, guys. I'm Jess. I am a producer at Unbothered. I am so excited to be on this couch talking
00:01:01to my favorite people. I feel like we're just on, like, episodes of, like, living single or something.
00:01:05Just, like, on that couch.
00:01:07Yes.
00:01:07Yeah.
00:01:08Yeah.
00:01:08I'm just chillin'.
00:01:09Yeah.
00:01:09I can't wait to get into it.
00:01:11So excited to have you. I love you both so much. You know that, like, even if I wasn't getting
00:01:15paid to, I'd be on a couch talking to both of you.
00:01:17Oh, easy. That's exactly what we've been doing. In this episode, we're going to explore the real, unfiltered truth of
00:01:23Black women's hair journeys from early rituals and first relaxers to big chops, braids, and rediscovering our natural texture.
00:01:31We've been through it all when it comes to our hair. And as priorities shift, confidence grows and identities deepen.
00:01:40Our hair does so much.
00:01:41And the way that we care for, style, and show up through our hair evolves, too. So we're going to
00:01:47go deep on all of that. But first, we are joined by someone who is going to help us in
00:01:54this conversation. And I am so excited to welcome her.
00:01:57It is Jessica Harris Dupart, an entrepreneur, a social media star, a certified baddie who's taking the world by storm
00:02:05with her brand Kaleidoscope Hair. Jessica started doing hair as a kid in high school.
00:02:10She pursued that passion and got her cosmetology license. After working as a stylist for years, Jessica opened her own
00:02:17salon and then grew the business to include hair products, which are now stocked at Target.
00:02:23That journey is so inspiring. We cannot wait to talk to her. Jessica, welcome to Go Off, sis.
00:02:30Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you guys.
00:02:34Oh, thank you so much for being here.
00:02:36I feel like I have my own Kaleidoscope story.
00:02:39Tell it.
00:02:40Before we dive in, yeah, I want to just thank you for making an amazing product that not only helped
00:02:47so many other people, but myself.
00:02:49I want to say in the pandemic, this happened. I don't know what about COVID in a pandemic, but things
00:02:55just started changing.
00:02:56I got acne. I was just, all the things was happening to me.
00:03:00And I just didn't understand why. So one day after getting a relaxer, and I've never had an issue.
00:03:06I've always had like thick, healthy, relaxed hair. But some, for some reason in the pandemic, my last relaxer literally
00:03:14took out the middle of my hair.
00:03:17My whole like hair, the scalp was just like gone. And I was devastated. I was like, what the hell?
00:03:23And it just, chunks were just like coming out. So I was like literally bald. I went to a dermatologist.
00:03:28It was like, it might be seasonal dermatitis, eczema, and like nothing was working.
00:03:33And then everything was shut down. So I was able to get my hands on some Kaleidoscope. And that was
00:03:38literally the only product that helped my hair grow back.
00:03:40And this is, I'm not just saying this, because you're on. It literally helped my hair grow back. So thank
00:03:46you so much.
00:03:47I don't know. Thank you for supporting us. Must be the Miracle Drops, right?
00:03:50Yes, it was the Miracle Drops. It was, it was, it was.
00:03:53I actually made those because of a story kind of like that. One of my, I was a hairstylist and
00:03:59one of my clients cheated on me.
00:04:01And she came to me, she came back to me and she had a circular bald spot in the middle.
00:04:07Even so, even though it wasn't my fault that it was gone, I felt responsible to bring it back because
00:04:12I had to grew her hair to the middle of her back.
00:04:14And so that made me pursue looking into what hair products, how to formulate them, what that looks like.
00:04:19And that was the birth of the Miracle Drops, like that story.
00:04:23So I can attest to that. So when was the first time you got a relaxer?
00:04:28My first memory of hair care was my mom used to take us to the salon with her every Saturday.
00:04:34And this was before the suites were a thing. This was an open salon, a whole bunch of Black women
00:04:40communing together.
00:04:41Everybody, you know, getting roller sets, getting all of that, but they were getting relaxers.
00:04:48I got a relaxer at a young age. It was a thing. It was a thing. It was, it made
00:04:54my hair more manageable.
00:04:56And then as time progressed, you know, we learn things and we decide to now embrace our curls.
00:05:03And even the world, you know, it's not, your hair doesn't have to be straight for a certain kind of
00:05:07thing.
00:05:07Or your hair doesn't have to be dark or your hair can be yellow. Your hair can be blue.
00:05:11Your hair can be curly. Your hair can be straight. Your hair can be spiked.
00:05:14It could be soft. It could be hard.
00:05:16Yes. That's a word. And absolutely. I think that also, even in the like natural hair movement or like the
00:05:24curly pride movement, it's become, okay, but if my, then if my hair is straight, am I left out of
00:05:31that conversation?
00:05:32You know, if I still want to do a relaxer, am I left out of that conversation?
00:05:36And I think that what you're saying and what, you know, what we've been talking about is just being inclusive
00:05:42of all black hair and all of the choices, keyword choice that black women want to make when it comes
00:05:49to our hair.
00:05:50Oh my God. Do I have a story for you?
00:05:52I've been getting relaxed since I was like four. Well, not anymore, but I was relaxed for like 10 years.
00:05:57Um, and I just remember it was always burning and I would come home with a lot of scabs and
00:06:03I was like, I guess that's just the price of it.
00:06:06But yet I only had three scoops of hair for like five years. You know what I mean? So like
00:06:10it wasn't growing. It was just manageable. So I have since gone natural and I'm like a straight natural right
00:06:17now.
00:06:18Um, but I remember just having to unlearn like relaxers and I was really excited to figure out what my
00:06:24actual hair texture was because I had never seen it before.
00:06:27What about you, Kathleen?
00:06:29Oh, um, yeah. I mean, I grew up in a predominantly white, um, neighborhood and environment that I've talked about
00:06:37many times on this podcast before in Canada.
00:06:40I'm Canadian, um, in like a suburb in Ontario. And so, yeah, everybody around me, all my friends, their hair
00:06:47was straight.
00:06:47So I was like begging my mom. First, we were doing this, like the hot comb situation where my mom's
00:06:55like, okay, you want your hair straight? She was doing her best. She was doing her best.
00:06:58And then I, when I finally got a relaxer, I just remember being so excited and just so happy that
00:07:04finally I was going to have straight hair.
00:07:08Also at the same time, I wasn't really looking to, it wasn't like, I was like, Oh, I want to
00:07:12look like my friend Ashley over there or something.
00:07:14It was like, I wanted to look like Beyonce. I wanted to look like Monica. Like I wanted to look
00:07:21like the girls I saw on TV, the black girls I saw on TV who had straight hair.
00:07:25And then also like a nice side effect of that would be like, Oh, and also at school, people would
00:07:30like stop talking or touching my hair or whatever.
00:07:33But I really, I was never, thankfully I grew up in a very, in a family that was very pro
00:07:37-black, a family that like made me love myself.
00:07:40So I wasn't like, I want to be you or have different hair. I just want to look like the
00:07:45black girls who I think are pretty.
00:07:47And that, and that's kind of where my, like why I wanted to get a relaxer.
00:07:51And so that's my first memory of it is just like having that experience.
00:07:56Yeah. But I want to know, Jessica, because you, you know, have experiences with relaxers and now you're curly and
00:08:03you've got all of these great products.
00:08:05Talk about how that journey informed what you created with your business.
00:08:10Well, at the time that I came out with products, relaxers were still a thing.
00:08:14So, cause that was like 2013, 2014. So relaxers were still a thing.
00:08:18As we evolved as a brand, we added things to be able to make sure to satisfy, not just the
00:08:25shampoo for the person that wants the relaxer,
00:08:28but for the girl that needs the gels or the custards or whatever that is, we try to make sure
00:08:34to accommodate our community in full.
00:08:36Because one thing that we have been prior to it being a fad was inclusive.
00:08:41So I was inclusive of the girl that had the relaxer.
00:08:43I'm inclusive of the girl, whether she's plus size, I'm inclusive of, and it's, again, it's been that way.
00:08:49Cause I've been very transparent, um, as the entrepreneur, very transparent as a person.
00:08:55And in being so, I just want people to love themselves.
00:08:58So like Kaleidoscope is not just about hair products and not to be cliche, but we even have a Facebook
00:09:05group.
00:09:06It's a growth group.
00:09:07It started off to be able to help people grow their hair, but it also grew their resources.
00:09:12It grew their friendships.
00:09:13It grew their spirituality.
00:09:15It grew their confidence.
00:09:17It grew different things.
00:09:17So when it comes to me, when it comes to the expansion of our portfolio, it just is to make
00:09:23sure that we're able to give women what they need to feel pretty.
00:09:29Whatever that is that you identify as.
00:09:32So we can go into our next memory.
00:09:34Your first memory of doing, if you've done it, the big job.
00:09:40Let me separate from creamy crack when I wanted to go blonde.
00:09:44Like I was a blonde and this was back when leave outs were a thing.
00:09:49So I was using, you know, I was doing leave out with the blonde and then I, there was the
00:09:56relaxer and then the blonde and it just didn't go together well at all.
00:10:01So I said, okay, if you, you need to make a choice, you either relax or you color, you have
00:10:07a choice.
00:10:08Cause those two don't, don't, they don't sit, they don't play together well in the yard at all.
00:10:12So I decided to go ahead and go natural.
00:10:17And I didn't, it wasn't a big chop.
00:10:18We just slowly but surely let it grow out.
00:10:22It was a challenge cause you did have, you know, you had the cur, you had the curly puffy root
00:10:27and then the strong, the, like the straight stringy ends.
00:10:31Cause I wasn't willing to just cut it.
00:10:33When I did that big chop, I didn't know what I was doing.
00:10:36And I think I started putting conditioner on it and eventually was like, you know what, give me the scarf.
00:10:42So I used to wear like a scarf on my head every single day.
00:10:44And then that was it.
00:10:46That's how I styled it.
00:10:47And when it finally grew out a year later, no, no, no, you know what?
00:10:51It was the pandemic, the pandemic.
00:10:53So you went natural?
00:10:54No, that's when I started to do my natural hair four years into being natural.
00:10:57Cause I used to just slap a scarf on it and it would like lock up.
00:11:01That's cool.
00:11:02I didn't have a choice.
00:11:03So during the pandemic, I started doing more research.
00:11:05I got really excited about, you know, trying different products and stuff.
00:11:09And it was the only thing we could do in the pandemic.
00:11:11So I look forward to it.
00:11:11And now I know how to do my hair.
00:11:14So I don't say thank you to the pandemic, but that did learn how to do my hair because of
00:11:18it.
00:11:19Oh, I'm proud of you.
00:11:20So I didn't, um, learn how to do my hair in the pandemic.
00:11:23I just let it grow out a lot.
00:11:25I was wearing a lot of scarves.
00:11:26I was just, I can't, I can't do it.
00:11:30I, my, I have a really great relationship with my hairstylist, my long time hairstylist.
00:11:35Yes.
00:11:35I'm not.
00:11:36Yeah.
00:11:36There's no, there's no relaxer in my hair.
00:11:38It is natural.
00:11:39It isn't braids.
00:11:40I do braids a lot now, or I do a weave and then my leave out, um, I don't relax
00:11:45it, but
00:11:46I don't know how to, I, and I think that it is me.
00:11:50Um, making excuses because I'm like, oh, I'm too busy.
00:11:53I can't learn.
00:11:54It's going to take too long.
00:11:55It's da, da, da, da, da, all the things as much as like my long hair is an armor.
00:11:59My also like busy badge is like, oh, I can't, I can't do it.
00:12:03I just gotta, you know, the braids and the weave is working for me as far as time goes.
00:12:07Um, so yeah, I truly don't know how to really like take care of her style my own hair.
00:12:12I just go to my, I go to shout out to Valentine.
00:12:14I go to her, I trust her and she takes care of it for me.
00:12:18Whatever works for you.
00:12:19Convenience.
00:12:20Listen, I'm not mad at that.
00:12:22Right.
00:12:22A lot of people want to lean into convenience or whatever it is.
00:12:25And then I think you have some girlies that like to do their own makeup and some girlies
00:12:29that just absolutely don't know how to do it.
00:12:32So it's the same way with your hair.
00:12:33You have some girls that's going to get their hair done.
00:12:36And some people that know how to keep up with natural hair.
00:12:39Yeah, but the internet and social media will bully you into thinking.
00:12:44They will try to bully you into anything though.
00:12:46They will bully you into drinking red Kool-Aid instead of purple.
00:12:49Girl, F the people.
00:12:51We just gotta log off.
00:12:52So I do have one last memory.
00:12:55Um, getting a sew-in.
00:12:57Ooh, okay.
00:12:58I'll, I'll start because I, it was prom.
00:13:03I got my first sew-in for prom and I was so excited.
00:13:08The dress is a mix between Kate Hudson's How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days like yellow dress
00:13:13and this dress I found of Diana Ross in the 70s.
00:13:17I had this beautiful dress and I had in my head, I was like gonna have this like long
00:13:23curly weave situation and I went and I got it done and then I walk into prom and it's
00:13:28the first time everybody's like seeing me.
00:13:29I had my Moesha braids and that's my first time with my weave.
00:13:32And I was feeling myself and I was so happy and I was so connected to my sew-in for
00:13:38a
00:13:38really long time.
00:13:39Around, it was around 2015, 2016.
00:13:43I really just looked in the mirror and I was like, who is that?
00:13:46Like I just didn't feel connected to that hair anymore.
00:13:49And so I got rid of it and I got Senegalese twists, which is probably the most like natural,
00:13:56I guess braids are natural, technically natural style, but it still was length.
00:14:01I've like added length to it.
00:14:02So it was really long, but those like rope twists were the, the, like it just felt more
00:14:07like me.
00:14:08And so I like got rid of my sew-in and then started feeling more like myself.
00:14:12And I think I'm back to being like, I can still be myself with a sew-in, but for a
00:14:16while
00:14:17I just really didn't feel connected to that person I saw in the mirror when I saw a sew-in.
00:14:22I feel that.
00:14:23Well, I'm glad you came back to yourself.
00:14:24Yeah.
00:14:25Yeah.
00:14:25I mean, it's not even, I can still be myself with a weave.
00:14:27I think I also didn't really know myself back then.
00:14:30You know what I mean?
00:14:30I think I was like so young.
00:14:32I was like coming out of high school.
00:14:33I was scared of my own shadow.
00:14:35I had a lot of confidence issues back then.
00:14:37And I think I just like was coming more into myself and I felt like my hair, like so many
00:14:41of us,
00:14:41you think that, you know, I'm, I'm transforming as a person.
00:14:45So my hair should transform too.
00:14:47Yeah.
00:14:47I got my first sew-in last year, maybe two years ago.
00:14:51It was cool.
00:14:52The humidity.
00:14:52You posted about it.
00:14:53Oh, but the humidity.
00:14:55And then I was, and it just kept curling back up.
00:14:57So now I got two different textures.
00:14:59That's crazy.
00:15:00My ex or my boyfriend or whatever he was at the time, my situation, my situation ship
00:15:06at the time, as the lace would lift up, he looked at me one day and he just said,
00:15:11and like pushed it down for me.
00:15:14So talk about, um, the beginning of that business and then how it has grown since.
00:15:21Well, it was not something that was on my bingo cards.
00:15:25I can tell you that that was something, it wasn't like I planned to do it.
00:15:28Kind of, as I said earlier in the show, I was a hairstylist.
00:15:32One of my clients who I had been working on for years, and this was during relaxers.
00:15:38I grew her hair to the middle of her bag.
00:15:40And one weekend I couldn't take her in.
00:15:43So she went to somebody else.
00:15:45And then we had a situation where, you know, she had hair loss.
00:15:48So then I felt responsible for bringing it back, which caused me to look into what it's
00:15:54like to be able to make your own products, formulate your own products.
00:15:58And it just so happened back then, you know, in the salon, you'll have people that come
00:16:02to the salon and they sell food, they sell this, they sell that.
00:16:05We used to have this guy that comes to the salon every week that sold his own products.
00:16:09So I told him I wanted to make my own.
00:16:11He was like, well, I could just tell you the people that I use.
00:16:13And it was literally like that, that he gave me his chemists.
00:16:16He gave me his vendors, like, just like that straightforward.
00:16:20I mean, there was, there was nothing.
00:16:22It was just like, oh, here, take my people.
00:16:24And so we worked on something for a little while.
00:16:27The first thing that they tried to do was kind of creamy.
00:16:29I didn't like it.
00:16:30The second thing they tried to do, it was like too tingly.
00:16:32So then we landed on what we know now is the miracle drops.
00:16:36And when I brought it to market, I didn't even bring it to market, like to social.
00:16:40I just was selling it to my clients.
00:16:42And then social media became a thing.
00:16:45And then I was like, oh, well, let me try to tell the people on social media.
00:16:48And then social media started buying it more than my clients.
00:16:51And then I started shipping to places that I've never traveled to.
00:16:55And I was like, oh, this actually might be something.
00:16:59And I learned social media and I learned social media marketing by kind of paying attention
00:17:05to trends, paying attention to what people are asking for, and have been able to grow
00:17:09the brand to where we've surpassed over 100 million in sales, which I'm super excited
00:17:14about.
00:17:15And we have retail distribution.
00:17:18So thank you.
00:17:19Come on, Black-owned business.
00:17:21I love everything, every gem you have dropped with us, Jessica.
00:17:24Thank you so much for joining us on Go Off, sis.
00:17:28We appreciate you.
00:17:30Thank you for taking time out of your day to be here with us.
00:17:34Listen, we can't talk about hair.
00:17:36We can't talk about black hair without our next guest.
00:17:40Lacey Redway is a master hairstylist with an esteemed roster of clients, including Tessa
00:17:46Thompson, Iowa Debrey, Tiana Taylor, Lupita Nyong'o, so much more.
00:17:51Lacey is taking black hair to new heights, sculpting braids, afros, and more across magazine
00:17:56covers, red carpets, music videos.
00:17:59She's everywhere.
00:18:00We're so excited to have Lacey on the show to talk all things black hair because she is
00:18:05the innovator, the creator, the plug, the person you want in your head.
00:18:11Lacey Redway, welcome to Go Off, sis.
00:18:14Thank you so much.
00:18:16Honestly, how do I hire you all?
00:18:18That intro?
00:18:19You got to, I got to have you with me at all times.
00:18:22Love it.
00:18:23I'm welcome.
00:18:24Hey.
00:18:25My favorite thing to do is talk to black women.
00:18:28So I am so honored and thrilled to be here with y'all.
00:18:31So thank you for having me.
00:18:32Thank you so much for being here, sis.
00:18:34We're so, so excited to have you.
00:18:37We have been talking about our like early black hair stories and journeys.
00:18:44So we got to hear yours, but I know that Sandy's, Sandy's going to kick us off.
00:18:48Yeah.
00:18:48I want to know, like, what's your earliest memory of a black hair ritual, whether it was
00:18:53on your own or one that you observed?
00:18:56Well, I am, so I'm Jamaican and I have to differentiate.
00:19:00Hey, girl.
00:19:00Hey, girl.
00:19:01And I also live on the East coast, like, you know, New York, New Jersey.
00:19:06So I have to, I have to differentiate that.
00:19:08It's not Jamaica, Queens.
00:19:10I am from the island of Jamaica.
00:19:13Okay.
00:19:13But, but, but, but, but.
00:19:14Yes.
00:19:16Um, so I grew up, you know, in, well, now I want to give my age too much, but I
00:19:24grew
00:19:24up at a time where, you know, we were still doing proper hair rituals because I feel like
00:19:29a lot has been lost.
00:19:31A little bit.
00:19:32A lot lost in the sauce.
00:19:33Like we lost the plot.
00:19:34A little bit.
00:19:34But, you know, so every Sunday I would sit in front of the television on a futon and
00:19:40my sister would like.
00:19:42Between your sister's legs.
00:19:44Exactly.
00:19:45Prep my hair for the week.
00:19:47You know, she used to give me like, you know, two strand twists and like, sort of like wrap
00:19:50it up or, or like, you know, give my hair in, in plaits and, and, and with bubbles.
00:19:56That's what we call it in Jamaica.
00:19:58You know, um, or the Bobos as y'all call it in America.
00:20:02Um, and that would like, that would literally be our ritual every Sunday.
00:20:06You know, that would be my wash day, prep day for the week.
00:20:10My style better last.
00:20:11I better come back home from school with my uniform clean and my hair still neat.
00:20:15That's it.
00:20:16So yeah, that, that, that's my earliest memory of a ritual and also like an, uh, hair experience.
00:20:23I feel like I could relate to that too.
00:20:25Cause I remember sitting in between my mom's legs, she was greasing the scalp with some
00:20:30ultra sheen, all of that, like the pink lotion.
00:20:34She was like, all of that, all of the things.
00:20:37Like we also had to think the Dax, like the different oils, the cashew oils.
00:20:41And when you smell it, I go right back there.
00:20:43I'm right back there sitting in between.
00:20:45As you speak, I can literally smell it.
00:20:47And so I love that you said that.
00:20:50And even being from a Caribbean background, like they wanted you to look proper all the
00:20:54time.
00:20:54So you wasn't going out right now.
00:20:56If your baby is not greased up.
00:20:58What kind of, what unfit parent called that, called, called, called ACS.
00:21:05Wait, I saw, I just saw a viral like video actually with, um, uh, someone like taking care
00:21:13of a white baby and she just slathered the Vaseline on his face.
00:21:17I was like, and everybody's in the comments like, yep.
00:21:18That's how baby is going.
00:21:19That's how well taken care of baby.
00:21:21Yep.
00:21:21If you don't see, like when you used to go to school with your face, like greasy, you
00:21:26know, you were all taken care of.
00:21:27But also look how that helped us today because I'm sorry.
00:21:30Like I'm looking in this room and what they say about us, like what that, it's from that
00:21:38damn Greece.
00:21:39I agree.
00:21:40I just talked about how intimate that experience is.
00:21:42Like, I feel like sitting in between my mom's legs while she's cornrowing my hair and I'm
00:21:45crying a little bit because it's like one of those core memories that I have with her
00:21:51that is so special.
00:21:52I think it was a makeup friend of mine had said this once to me and I'm like, that actually
00:21:57really makes sense.
00:21:58It's like, you know, what we do is so intimate, like, you know, touching somebody's scalp.
00:22:03Like I go and meet someone for the first time, you know, let's say a celebrity for the red
00:22:08carpet.
00:22:08I can meet them for the first time and I spend two hours at a time just like in their
00:22:13scalp
00:22:14or makeup artist on their face.
00:22:15And that's more intimate time than you spend with your partner even.
00:22:19You know, your partner's not rubbing on your face and in your scalp.
00:22:22So, you know, that also automatically like breaks down a barrier where we do become so
00:22:28close to the people we spend time with because it just creates this trust that you have to
00:22:34have.
00:22:34You know, there's so much, you know, there really is so much secrets kept in the hair.
00:22:38You know, there's people that have scalp issues, hair loss issues and stuff like that.
00:22:42And, you know, having a proper, having a hairstylist that can offer a proper hair care services
00:22:49to really help, you know, you feel your best and just feel safe is really the service.
00:22:56So, yes.
00:22:57No, it's so vulnerable.
00:22:58Absolutely.
00:22:58Like you're seeing me like hair all out.
00:23:01Stripped down.
00:23:01Yeah, exactly.
00:23:02And also when you think of, you know, the industry and Hollywood or working with celebrities
00:23:07and actors and people who are on sets a lot and they don't have that safe space.
00:23:12And so to think about how intimate it is and to think about also people have to go do their
00:23:17jobs, right?
00:23:18Like we all come in here today, we got done so that we could be at our most confident
00:23:23to come do our jobs properly.
00:23:25And so we wouldn't have to think about our faces.
00:23:27We wouldn't have to think about our hair before we came here to do our job.
00:23:30And so when you think of so many of your clients and, you know, in talking to actors
00:23:36and actresses, um, black actors and actresses in Hollywood through my job, I hear so often
00:23:42that they're like, I'm pushing to have a certain hairstylist, a black hairstylist specifically.
00:23:49It's so crazy to me that, you know, we're still having the same fight.
00:23:53Yes.
00:23:54Like I thought it would have gotten better, you know, from like post COVID, you know,
00:24:00with Black Lives Matter, you know, like being such a, like for a second, you, you, you
00:24:07saw a glimpse that it can get better, but now it feels like there's this like push of
00:24:13like this defiance against it, you know, where, um, people are like specifically not trying
00:24:19to hire, you know, we see it.
00:24:20The black lash as they call it.
00:24:22The backlash, right.
00:24:23The black lash.
00:24:24Wow.
00:24:24I didn't know that was a term for it.
00:24:25Yeah.
00:24:26You know, so it's like, you know, someone like myself who have been basically like grinding
00:24:32and hitting the pavement since I was 11 years old, pretty much like I've been doing hair
00:24:36that long.
00:24:37My trajectory is real.
00:24:39It's not anything that have to do with, you know, getting a handout or anything like that,
00:24:44you know, but with the black lash of it all, it, it all, you know, it kind of feels like
00:24:49people, you know, specifically don't want to hire us, you know, because they, they don't
00:24:54want to give us the opportunity because they feel like we were just like given, you know,
00:24:59so, which is, it's so crazy.
00:25:01So, yeah.
00:25:02So it's like still, still hearing clients having to like push and fight and tug, you know, just
00:25:08to get someone that makes them feel safe on, you know, on a cover of a magazine shoot
00:25:13or, you know, on the set of a movie or, you know, to go travel with them to a foreign
00:25:19country,
00:25:20you know, when they're on these press tours.
00:25:21Like I had, I have a client, um, you know, that's getting ready to do a press tour and
00:25:27she literally like, we're like strategizing for me to braid her hair before she has to
00:25:31leave the country.
00:25:31Cause we just know by the time she gets to the country, there's nobody that is going to
00:25:37be available to her to make sure her hair looks good.
00:25:39You know, we offer a service beyond hair.
00:25:42It's like, you know, as, as the word safety always comes back to me because that is like
00:25:48a huge part of being a session stylist working in entertainment.
00:25:52I hope that, you know, it will actually get better and stick and it's not just like, you
00:25:59know, trends and, you know, different stuff like that.
00:26:01It's so crazy.
00:26:02And even when you, um, you talk about like community and stuff like that, um, can you
00:26:06talk a little bit about how that community looks like for you in your space or just when
00:26:11it comes to like different hairstylists or even when it comes to like friends and like
00:26:15family?
00:26:16Yeah.
00:26:16So community is super important to me in all areas of my life.
00:26:21Like, um, also being a single mom and, and trying to do this job.
00:26:25Like I rely on my village, like shout out to the single mom, shout out to the single
00:26:30moms and dads and dads too.
00:26:32You know, and caretakers, like, you know, it's, it's such a hard job and you do really
00:26:37need, you know, a huge support of village.
00:26:40I mean, we were just talking about off camera, you know, with somebody in the room where we're
00:26:44like, I don't know if I could go tonight because, you know, I don't know if I like the babysitting
00:26:49situation.
00:26:50Yeah.
00:26:50Like, you know, as a traveling hairstylist, like, you know, I'm so grateful to have support,
00:26:55you know, like, you know, let me be clear.
00:26:59Like my son has a dad, you know, that is present in his life, but we're not together, but you
00:27:03know, I rely on my direct village, you know, like my mom, my sister, you know, that really
00:27:08holds me down where it's like, I can, you know, step away and, you know, and be in Los
00:27:14Angeles and, and, and be doing the golden globes and know that my son back home is safe.
00:27:19Yeah.
00:27:19You know, like my village is holding it down and he's in good hands.
00:27:23And, and just also in the industry, like, you know, as a, as a black, you know, artist,
00:27:29you know, I lean on my, my, my other peers, you know, of like, Hey, how do you navigate
00:27:34this?
00:27:35How do you have this conversation?
00:27:37You know, how do you ask for, you know, your rates or, you know, ask for support with extensions,
00:27:42like extensions, like extensions are a huge thing for hairstylists.
00:27:45Really?
00:27:46Yeah.
00:27:47Because, um, you know, sometimes the magazines or the mute, uh, the movie studios don't really
00:27:52understand the importance of, um, what we, the service that we actually offer.
00:27:58Like we're not just curling hair.
00:28:00We are creating an image.
00:28:02Exactly.
00:28:02You know, how much time and how much money it takes.
00:28:05Money it takes.
00:28:06Because people will like, especially first impressions, like people will remember you, like your clients
00:28:10have to take pictures, you know?
00:28:12So that's, that's really important.
00:28:14And when you, you know, also like, you know, work with people continuously, it's just nice
00:28:20to have a team, you know, and the support in that.
00:28:23Oh my gosh.
00:28:23There's so much I want to talk to you about, um, but I want to get into specifically this
00:28:30when you're styling people for big events and for magazine covers.
00:28:33I think for a long time, we have all dealt with this as black women there for a long time.
00:28:38It was, if you're going to this, you wear your hair like this and you cannot wear your hair
00:28:44like this or else you're going to look unprofessional or, uh, you know, people are going to judge you
00:28:50in a certain way, whatever, whatever.
00:28:51And it was a lot of external conversations about something that is very intimate and internal,
00:28:57which is how do I want to wear my hair?
00:28:59How do I want to look?
00:29:00Right.
00:29:01It's more of like, what are people going to think of me and how am I going to, and it's
00:29:03all these expectations.
00:29:04So for you, because you have innovated these, some of these most beautiful looks, natural
00:29:11hair looks on red carpets that we had never seen before.
00:29:13So I want to talk to you about the conversations you're having with your clients and how you
00:29:18let go of some of these expectations that are put on black women to look a certain way
00:29:24in a certain space.
00:29:25It's crazy because not that long ago, we did not have things like cornrows on the cover of
00:29:32a magazine and natural textures, as you're saying, you know, like I remember vividly being
00:29:39in Europe with a client, we were working on a notable magazine cover and me and the client
00:29:45wanted cornrows.
00:29:46And this was like, at the time, very innovative to do.
00:29:50And it's still till this day, like, it's like when we're shooting covers, they only see
00:29:55us in one, one of three styles, like your hair pulled back because they don't know what
00:29:59to do with it.
00:30:00And they're like, oh, just get rid of it.
00:30:01You know, or they want now a curly, looser texture, you know, sort of like, you know,
00:30:10Afro outdone, you know, that's their version of Afro, but it's still very loose or straight,
00:30:15you know?
00:30:16So it's really, unless you're shooting for a black magazine like Essence, you know, Ebony,
00:30:21like really, there's not really a lot of room, you know, for you to see, for freedom,
00:30:27you know, we wanted this cornrow style and we were getting, we got so much pushback from
00:30:32the team and, you know, and that I was so grateful to also be there with her because
00:30:38besides me and her, there really wasn't anyone of color on the, on, you know, in the room,
00:30:44in the room, just her and I.
00:30:46And, you know, and they, they hated the idea of having cornrows on their cover.
00:30:52And, you know, so I've, I've been on the fight, you know, with my clients and, you know,
00:30:58I'm just so grateful to have, you know, been a part of like changing, you know, what we
00:31:04see red carpet hairstyles of me today.
00:31:06You know, we, we see a lot of natural styles, you know, we see a lot more braided hairstyles
00:31:11and, and, you know, styles that are very authentic to us.
00:31:16Yeah.
00:31:16Yeah.
00:31:16Because how sad is it to limit us to three hairstyles when our hair can literally defy
00:31:20gravity, like it's literally, literally.
00:31:23So even the conversation around like black hair is difficult to work with.
00:31:27Like oftentimes, you know, I hear stories from, you know, talents and models that, you
00:31:32know, somebody will see them and be like, Oh my God, your hair is perfect as is.
00:31:36And that is code word for, I don't know what to do with it.
00:31:39I can't do it.
00:31:39You got it, sis.
00:31:40Girl, you got it, sis.
00:31:41You know, and, and like so many people have to go in the bathroom and like try to do their
00:31:45own hair so that they can look good for whatever the occasion.
00:31:49Yeah.
00:31:49Yeah.
00:31:50It's sad.
00:31:50It's very sad.
00:31:51I'm a big believer in like hair theory and like the way that you wear your hair can kind
00:31:55of tell a story.
00:31:56And that's why I think your job is so important.
00:31:58Um, how have you kind of redefined what hair theory is for you?
00:32:02Because I think with those get branching out of those three hairstyles and being like, no,
00:32:06this look is really feminine.
00:32:08And so let's do like a really big Afro, like let's redefine what natural hair looks like
00:32:12and what it means and the statement that it means.
00:32:14Yeah.
00:32:14What is hair theory for you and how are you redefining natural hair?
00:32:18Yeah.
00:32:18So I'm a nonconformist, so I don't like rules.
00:32:22I don't like to live in the parameters of what expectations are.
00:32:28So I, I'm very much like if everybody's going to left, I'm definitely going right.
00:32:32You know, when I create a look and for me, everything I do.
00:32:38It was a collaboration.
00:32:38So if I'm doing your hair, I spend time learning who you are so that I can implement you into
00:32:46the hairstyle where it's not just my vision, you know?
00:32:49So it's like, I could give all three y'all the same braided hairstyle, but the finish will
00:32:54look different because I'm considering who you are as a person.
00:32:59So that is how I redefine hair theory.
00:33:02You know, it's just through the collaboration of how I work.
00:33:05I love that.
00:33:05I love how personal it is.
00:33:06No, I was trying to run for the word.
00:33:08You're good.
00:33:09You're good.
00:33:10You're good.
00:33:10I love that.
00:33:11Okay.
00:33:12I want to just like, for a second, I'm just going to big you up, Lacey, because we know
00:33:18how talented you are and how we've seen the magazine covers and the red carpets and all
00:33:22this stuff.
00:33:22We're going to keep talking about that.
00:33:23But me personally, you want to see, you see my style.
00:33:29So I've got a weave in the back and braids in the front, pick and drop and boho braids.
00:33:35This style is because of Lacey Redway.
00:33:38Period.
00:33:38So many people are doing this now and you told me, girl, it was like two years ago?
00:33:44Yeah.
00:33:44Three years ago maybe?
00:33:45And I ran into you and I was like, oh my God, I want to get braids, but it's going
00:33:49to take
00:33:49so long and da, da, da.
00:33:50And you were like, this is what you got to do.
00:33:52And you gave me the plug.
00:33:54Okay, so let's be clear.
00:33:57I did not, like, I, I've, this hairstyle has been around for a long time, okay?
00:34:03Like, if you go back and you really reference things, like Brandy was wearing her hair like
00:34:08that.
00:34:08You know, Beyonce used to braid up her hair.
00:34:12You know, Tony Childs on Girlfriend also had, you know, when her hair broke off, like
00:34:18they were braiding her leave out.
00:34:19But, you know, I have been wearing my hair like this for 20 years.
00:34:22What I've been seeing, like, on social media and TikTok, it's so crazy.
00:34:26I'm like, y'all, we can't be Christopher Columbus in here, you know?
00:34:30What, um, have you had to unlearn black hair myths and, like, put the people on and be
00:34:35like, stop doing this?
00:34:36Okay.
00:34:37Now y'all, now this is a therapy session.
00:34:40We done stepped into the therapy session portion of the podcast.
00:34:47Should I lay down?
00:34:48Right, right, exactly.
00:34:50Um, because there's a lot of unlearnings that I've been, like, at this stage in my life,
00:34:55you know, both, like, how to deal in relationships, how to communicate, like, there's so much unlearning.
00:35:01So, particularly with hair and hair care, the unlearnings are, you know, I mean, I know
00:35:07earlier we were, like, vibing off of the nostalgia of the hair products that we used to use, but
00:35:13I've learned now that...
00:35:15Put me on.
00:35:16Put, yeah, some of those clogged our pores.
00:35:18Oh.
00:35:19We can't really be, like...
00:35:20I'm over here saying, let's go back.
00:35:22We can't really be, like, putting the...
00:35:25On the scalp.
00:35:26I was going to ask if there were, like, any OG, like, you know, Blue Magic, pink lotion that
00:35:31you have in your kit that you still use, but it's kind of sounded like, no.
00:35:34Because I've learned, also, it weighs your hair down.
00:35:37Girl, remember when we used to do the doobies and the raps?
00:35:40Yeah.
00:35:40Where are you guys from?
00:35:42I feel like what you call a rap is very specific to your region of where you are.
00:35:47Yeah, I agree.
00:35:48I agree.
00:35:48So, you guys...
00:35:48Okay, you know the doobie talk.
00:35:50We're from the East Coast.
00:35:52Which is always the right way.
00:35:55Let's be clear.
00:35:55Listen.
00:35:56Don't come for us in the comments, but let's be clear.
00:35:59We're ready to fight any time in college.
00:36:00Come for us in the comments.
00:36:02Okay?
00:36:02I'm ready.
00:36:04But, you know, when we used to do the raps, girl, it used to be so, like, greasy.
00:36:10And when you brush it out and pass it to your...
00:36:12It was like, look at the body now.
00:36:14Do you know how long it took to learn this formula of, like, what works and what's not
00:36:18working?
00:36:19It's trial and error.
00:36:19Okay.
00:36:20Well, talk about it.
00:36:21What is the formula?
00:36:22Like, what are we doing these days?
00:36:23Less is more.
00:36:24Like, I used to have so many products.
00:36:25That's what I'm saying.
00:36:26I need shampoo, conditioner, you know, a little anti-humidity and then the heat protection.
00:36:31Very important, though.
00:36:32Let's not skip the anti-humidity.
00:36:33Very important.
00:36:34And the heat protection.
00:36:35Yeah.
00:36:35The heat protection.
00:36:35I feel like, you know, as black women, like, we gotta do more to our hair and skin that
00:36:41we have not...
00:36:44That we didn't grow up doing.
00:36:45Yeah.
00:36:45You know?
00:36:46Like, the sunscreen.
00:36:47That's something that I feel like we weren't doing for real.
00:36:50And we really...
00:36:51And also, in the hair, like, there's hair care products that are launching that will
00:36:55have UV protection.
00:36:57Wow.
00:36:57I mean, I can't say specifically one right now, but I definitely know something that
00:37:00it has.
00:37:01That's on the way.
00:37:02Something's coming.
00:37:03Something is coming.
00:37:04For sure.
00:37:04Has there ever been a time that you experimented, like, on yourself or on a client where you
00:37:09were like, yeah, I'm never doing that again?
00:37:11It's not working.
00:37:13Yeah.
00:37:13I mean, I usually try to do myself first.
00:37:17Make sure it works.
00:37:17Okay.
00:37:18So, back, back in the day.
00:37:19Back, back in the day.
00:37:20And I feel like I'm aging myself continuously on this podcast.
00:37:23No, no.
00:37:24You're fine.
00:37:24Pulling out the, you know, the receipts.
00:37:26But there was this technique called the microfusion back in the day.
00:37:30And it took three days, y'all, to put in.
00:37:33And it was, like, the most miniest, tiniest, like, strand by strand sort of, like, microbraids.
00:37:40Okay.
00:37:41You know, that you can get.
00:37:43It was a solution to the fusion techniques.
00:37:46Like, y'all know the fusion techniques where they bond.
00:37:48Okay.
00:37:49Yeah, yeah.
00:37:50There's, like, so many.
00:37:51There's hot, cold, you know, there's so many fusion techniques.
00:37:53But it was a solution for that for black girls.
00:37:58So, it was somebody, I don't know where, created that technique.
00:38:02And then the person I was working with, my boss at the time in a salon, I was the guinea
00:38:07pig for this technique.
00:38:09Because it was supposed to, you know, you were supposed to be able to charge so much
00:38:12money to, like, have somebody come in and do it.
00:38:15And it was supposed to be so natural where it's, like, if you parted your hair or moved
00:38:19your hair, you wouldn't know that you, yeah, that you had extensions in.
00:38:22Interesting.
00:38:23Yeah, but my hair, it pulled my hair out.
00:38:25Of course.
00:38:26Of course.
00:38:26Come on.
00:38:27Like, you can't be braiding your hair that small.
00:38:29No.
00:38:30You know?
00:38:30Like, it's crazy.
00:38:31So, I would never do that again.
00:38:33Yeah.
00:38:33And, in fact, I will, like, I was asked once to braid somebody's hair super, super tiny
00:38:39like that.
00:38:40And I had to refuse.
00:38:41Or, you know, I'm like, no, girl.
00:38:43It's, you're not going to blame me for your hair falling out.
00:38:46Exactly.
00:38:46So, you protect it.
00:38:48I love that it's not style over health.
00:38:53No.
00:38:53Never that.
00:38:54Never that.
00:38:55Not in my chair.
00:38:56Good.
00:38:56Good.
00:38:57Which is so important.
00:38:58And that is something that I also had to learn because, for me, I would just be like,
00:39:02oh, this is going to work for this night.
00:39:04Yes.
00:39:04So, whatever.
00:39:05I'm going to do whatever I'll do with my hair in the morning.
00:39:07And, like, even if this messes up my hair, I don't care.
00:39:10Right.
00:39:10Oh, yeah.
00:39:10But that is so important for you because you are styling people for just, like, a big event sometimes.
00:39:16Yes.
00:39:16And it's like, okay, I can do this and it'll look good this evening.
00:39:20Or this will look good for your shoot or whatever.
00:39:22But then tomorrow you're going to wake up and it's like, what's happening?
00:39:25Yeah.
00:39:26Exactly.
00:39:26So, talk a bit more about how you make sure, like, a client like Tessa, who I know you work
00:39:32with.
00:39:32Yes.
00:39:32You've been friends with.
00:39:33You work with her often.
00:39:34Yes.
00:39:35Making sure that Tessa is looking incredible throughout awards season as she is nominated for Hedda,
00:39:40one of the best performances of the year.
00:39:42Let me just say.
00:39:42Shut up.
00:39:43Um, and also got the number one show in the country on Netflix.
00:39:47Yes.
00:39:48Okay.
00:39:49Give my girl her, give my girl her flowers.
00:39:51We got Tessa, we got Tessa so much.
00:39:53So, how do you approach that?
00:39:55Creating, making sure that the health is there along with the, like, styles.
00:39:59Yeah.
00:40:00So, I, I feel so fortunate and blessed because I have such a longstanding relationship with a lot of my
00:40:07clients.
00:40:08Like, you know, I was even, you know, it's the last season of Stranger Things, you know.
00:40:13I know this is a, you know, we talk about black hair.
00:40:15But I'm just, like, thinking about all my clients that I've watched either grow up, you know, or, like, people
00:40:21I've been with, like, be, you know, over 10 plus years, which Tessa is one of them.
00:40:25I've, we've been, you know, working together over a decade.
00:40:28But Sadie Sink, who I met when she, I think she was, like, 14, is in her 20s now.
00:40:35Wow.
00:40:35Season, what season is that?
00:40:37Seven or eight or whatever of the show?
00:40:39It just finished?
00:40:39Five, Stranger Things?
00:40:40Oh, five, Stranger Things.
00:40:41Tell y'all, I don't want to be watching you for real.
00:40:42It feels like, because it's been on for a while.
00:40:44It's been on for a while.
00:40:44Because it's been, like, seven or eight years.
00:40:46Okay, okay, that's what I'm talking about.
00:40:48Okay.
00:40:48It's a year.
00:40:49It's a year.
00:40:49And I'm like, oh my God.
00:40:51A, feel like somebody's auntie, for sure.
00:40:54You know, and then it's like, wow, like, I feel so fortunate.
00:40:58That my clients trust me.
00:41:00That I have been with them through so many life shifts, you know?
00:41:05And, you know, and I care so much of them.
00:41:08Beyond my, like, just integrity and, like, identity of who I am as a hairstylist.
00:41:14Because it's not just about the style.
00:41:15Like, I really care.
00:41:17Like, hair care is so big for me.
00:41:19You know, I, you know, when somebody's promoting something or, you know, doing a long press run,
00:41:26you know, I definitely, you know, speak on hair care.
00:41:30Like, we're conditioning the hair in between.
00:41:33You know, I'm not doing styles that's gonna, just for the night, that's gonna pull out your edges.
00:41:38Or, you know, you know, that's why, like, as much as I love seeing how far wig styling
00:41:47and just, like, how creative, you know, I see people online are with the hairlines
00:41:54and the plucking and everything like that.
00:41:55But it's like, if you have to shave your hairline to put on a wig,
00:41:59what are we really talking about for real?
00:42:02Yeah.
00:42:02What are we doing?
00:42:03What are we really doing for real?
00:42:05You know?
00:42:06Talk about it.
00:42:06So, it's just like, you know, I worry, again, that we have lost the plot.
00:42:11We are as a community of, like, what are, you know, hair care versus, like,
00:42:17we're just doing something in the moment or for it to look good in that, you know?
00:42:21It's just like, hair care should be the number one thing.
00:42:23Like, you know, that's why I'm here.
00:42:25It's like, if you knew how to do your own, you know, if, I mean,
00:42:28I hope you know how to do something, girl.
00:42:30I do, I do a little something.
00:42:31But, like, I'm here to, like, you know, show you guys, like, how to preserve your hair.
00:42:39And, like, you know, yeah, and, like, moisturize it and all those things.
00:42:43So, you know, I can't also be out here being the one to pull it out.
00:42:47Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:42:48That's why we appreciate you because you actually care.
00:42:50Yeah, and there are tons of stylists out here that also still care.
00:42:54But then there are the stylists that, you know, also are just there for the look and, you know,
00:42:59the photo and then you're left with all this hair that they left,
00:43:03the baby hairs that they left out.
00:43:05And when you get home, how you swivel that?
00:43:07I said that in our last episode.
00:43:10I was like, not everyone needs, just because you know how to do hair,
00:43:13we need to be a hairstylist.
00:43:14And why aren't we washing people's hair?
00:43:16You're like, why is that an additional charge?
00:43:20Oh, I have the prices on us.
00:43:21But the services have been taken out.
00:43:23We could have a whole new episode about that.
00:43:25Okay, all right.
00:43:25I didn't know that.
00:43:26No, I want to hear your takes on it.
00:43:28Give us your black hair salon take right now.
00:43:31Listen, we need to go back to the consultations.
00:43:36We need to go back to the proper hair care, like washing it, you know, conditioning,
00:43:43because that is how you really help your client's hair grow.
00:43:48Exactly.
00:43:49And also, as a stylist, I'm sorry, y'all.
00:43:51I am not trusting you to come to my salon, you know, with your hair already washed from home.
00:43:57I'm not picking up no sort of bacteria in my hair.
00:44:00I'm not trusting that.
00:44:00No, seriously.
00:44:01No, I got a seat for myself.
00:44:03I got to wash the dirt go in the sink with my own eyes.
00:44:07This needs to be played on every salon.
00:44:10Listen up, okay?
00:44:11These are the guidelines.
00:44:13These are the guidelines.
00:44:13But also, just build it in the service.
00:44:15Like, put that at the cost of it.
00:44:17So when you quote a number, it already includes the washing style.
00:44:21And there's nothing wrong with that.
00:44:22How much time are you actually saving by saying,
00:44:25what comes with your hair already washed?
00:44:27Can I say something?
00:44:28And this is just me?
00:44:29Yeah, yeah.
00:44:29What camera am I looking at?
00:44:31I don't want to pay $300 for a silk press.
00:44:34I don't know if you charge $300.
00:44:35I don't want to pay for it.
00:44:36If you're just washing and conditioning my hair and straightening it, no.
00:44:40Stop it.
00:44:41Just stop.
00:44:43That was my own personal opinion.
00:44:44Now, okay.
00:44:44Okay, I will say this about price, right?
00:44:47Price is subjective, right?
00:44:48I was just going to say, yeah.
00:44:49It is subjective.
00:44:49You know, and it's like, what is worth it to me?
00:44:51Might not be worth it to you.
00:44:52Yeah.
00:44:53You know?
00:44:53And if I'm coming to your salon and you got me champagne,
00:44:57I'm in a massage.
00:44:59Okay, exactly.
00:44:59If it's a full experience.
00:45:01If you're building out the experience for me,
00:45:03I might think it's worth it a little bit.
00:45:05But I feel like if I was in the kitchen at your house.
00:45:08Yeah, okay, all right.
00:45:08Because you're some Garnier and like, you know.
00:45:10Ooh, not no shades of Garnier.
00:45:12I still want the deal.
00:45:14I know.
00:45:14In a sense that, but yeah.
00:45:17That's my only thing.
00:45:19That's my only thing.
00:45:20But shout out to all the hairstylists.
00:45:21I don't know what it takes to be a hairstylist.
00:45:23So I don't know what the real price of things are.
00:45:26All I know is that one day.
00:45:27It's all subjective because it's like, it depends on your area, where you work, you know, clientele.
00:45:33You know, what I offer is a concierge service.
00:45:35So it's like, if I'm coming to you and I'm literally coming with a suitcase of a whole salon.
00:45:43Sure.
00:45:44And now I got to, might go to the chiropractor because the suitcase is heavy.
00:45:48Okay.
00:45:49I'm building all of that cost in my service.
00:45:51And I think it's important to be transparent.
00:45:53Like, I broke my back to get here.
00:45:55Because if I'm just looking at the price, I'm like, wait a minute, why is it $300?
00:45:58And I don't know what it's.
00:45:59But y'all quick to go online and complain, though, in the car.
00:46:02It's getting a little out of hand.
00:46:03No, no, no.
00:46:04It's really getting a little out of hand on the internet.
00:46:05And they are always in the car.
00:46:07They are always in the car.
00:46:08I think the pay-put-up service is sitting in the car.
00:46:10I hated it.
00:46:11I hated it.
00:46:11Why you didn't speak up, sis?
00:46:13Right.
00:46:13Why you didn't speak up, sis?
00:46:14Just speak up.
00:46:15Now you're online telling, see, that's why y'all got to sign MBAs.
00:46:19Yeah.
00:46:20Some people are just trying to go viral.
00:46:22You're right.
00:46:22No, legit.
00:46:23Legit.
00:46:23Your hair actually looks pretty good, but they're just trying to go viral.
00:46:25Legit.
00:46:26So that's why, exactly.
00:46:27Yeah.
00:46:29See, that's why I don't accept everybody.
00:46:30One of the things we talked about in the last episode with Sabrina Elba was she is a black
00:46:35founder who creates products for black women, but they are for everyone.
00:46:41Yes.
00:46:41And she wants people to know that just because I'm a black founder doesn't mean you can't
00:46:45use my products.
00:46:46Okay.
00:46:46And I think what's for you as a black hairstylist who specializes in black hair, but you do everyone.
00:46:52You mentioned Seba Singh.
00:46:53You've done Chapel Rhone.
00:46:55I've seen looks that you've done, or I'm like, damn, girl, on different clients who are
00:47:00not just black clients.
00:47:01Um, me and Sarah Poston went viral last Golden Glows because people were like, I knew it's
00:47:05a black woman.
00:47:06I knew it was a black woman.
00:47:08I knew it was a black woman.
00:47:09And I'm like, damn, y'all caught me.
00:47:12Y'all caught me.
00:47:13But I wanted you to talk about being in the industry and if there is times when then you
00:47:19are pigeonholed into certain things and people don't think that you can do everyone's hair
00:47:23because you can't.
00:47:24And honestly, you know, and that's why I said black women are my favorite people to
00:47:29talk to because no one else can understand what we experience but us.
00:47:34I mean, it is 2026, y'all.
00:47:38And I kid you not, there are still publicists or publications or producers or managers that
00:47:46will only consider you and think of you when they have a black client.
00:47:50You can literally perform circles around, you know, your counterparts and out, out curl,
00:47:58out whatever, everybody.
00:48:00And still, they will still put you in that box of like, only when they have a black client
00:48:07that they think of you.
00:48:09And my portfolio is so diverse.
00:48:11I literally can do anybody's hair, you know, every single texture.
00:48:15And, you know, and I've, I've purposely in my career, you know, created my own, you know,
00:48:24narrative and my own box, you know, of, of not allowing people to, you know, sort of
00:48:29place me into their ideas of what they want me to be.
00:48:33And, you know, and also to help the black girls that are, you know, in my DMs and, and
00:48:39in my comments that are inspired by what I'm doing and, and want to one day, you know,
00:48:46be in the same, you know, doing the same things.
00:48:49Like, I want to show them, like, we can still have ownership of how we are seen with, you
00:48:57know, I mean, yes, thank God the social media as well.
00:49:00Like, it's a love and hate relationship for me and social media, but it is allowing us
00:49:06to be the storytellers of our journey, you know, where we don't have to continue to allow
00:49:13people not to hold space for us, you know?
00:49:16So it allows me to, you know, create hairstyles that I want to, you know, to showcase of what
00:49:23my skill set is.
00:49:24It allows me to, you know, if somebody's not considering me for it, I'm going after it
00:49:29myself, you know, so, um, I'm, I'm, I'm so happy to have a come up in a time pre social
00:49:36media where, you know, I've learned so much of like set etiquette and like how to, you
00:49:42know, how to, how to move about, you know, in the business, but also, um, informed enough
00:49:48to still do me and, and not allow anybody to, um, to, you know, not consider me when I
00:49:56know that I'm worthy of, and the work speaks for itself.
00:50:01Okay.
00:50:02Yes.
00:50:03But it is still, it still always feels like a fight, honestly.
00:50:07Cause it's like, I feel like as a black woman, you know, we're seen as we're like at the
00:50:12bottom of the totem pole, which is like, because we influence everything.
00:50:17I mean, I'm going on Tik TOK and I'm seeing, you know, people with bonnets and that don't
00:50:22even really need that level of protection.
00:50:26She said, take it off.
00:50:27And, uh, you know, and I'm seeing like all types of stuff, you know, that I'm, you know,
00:50:32and also like, you know, the, I'm sorry, you know, black people have influence.
00:50:37Also the wig game that we're seeing.
00:50:39And then I'm seeing, you know, so many different non-black stylists, which, you know, you know,
00:50:45listen, if, if you can take credit, if you can learn something from a black woman, just
00:50:50make sure you're credited.
00:50:52Yeah.
00:50:52That's all I'm asking.
00:50:52That's it.
00:50:53That's it.
00:50:54So it's like, we're teaching you different skill sets online because, you know, we're not
00:50:59gatekeeping, you know, we are, we are putting everything we're sharing.
00:51:02Just also don't, you know, create a video or create a narrative as if you created something.
00:51:09Yeah.
00:51:09You know?
00:51:10So in your experience, how does a black woman's hair contribute to her overall sense of confidence
00:51:17and like how she shows up in this world?
00:51:20Yeah.
00:51:20So hair is so crucial to, you know, a, your identity, you know, and, and how you're perceived,
00:51:29but also to, you know, your confidence, you know, we play such a important role.
00:51:35That's why I always tell hairstylists, like, I'm like, we, our job is secured, like, you
00:51:40know, in a global pandemic, in a, everything, like I, I was working through the whole thing,
00:51:45whether it's like, I'm doing somebody's hair via zoom, like I had to consult on zoom, you
00:51:51know, I, I've, you know, just, you know, had to send care packages, whatever the case
00:51:56may be, we, you know, if you are a stylist that focuses on education, you're always going
00:52:03to have a, you know, a seat in the game, like there, there's always going to be room for
00:52:07you because, you know, it's so crucial to just, you know, help people understand, you
00:52:13know, how to take care of it.
00:52:14Yeah.
00:52:14Yeah.
00:52:15Yeah.
00:52:15I like love my stylist just based off of how she makes me look and feel.
00:52:20Once I leave, there's like that meme, like you're not sad, your hair is just not bad.
00:52:26Exactly.
00:52:27And not to mention we're therapists.
00:52:28Yes.
00:52:29We are, you know, doctors, you know, we play so many roles, you know, best friends, you
00:52:34know, like the salon is really the safe space and, you know, hairstyles to like, just really
00:52:40just be yourself.
00:52:41Yeah.
00:52:41You know, you have no choice.
00:52:42It's like you're, the veil is being lifted, you know, where people are seeing you in your
00:52:46most intimate, you know, vulnerable state.
00:52:49Yes.
00:52:49So if you can trust that person with, you know, any scalp issues you might have or, you
00:52:55know, insecurities about breakage or hair loss, then, you know, that is a person that
00:53:00you can share some secrets with, you know, and help and help you feel, you know, beautiful
00:53:05and safe.
00:53:07Yes.
00:53:09Um, okay.
00:53:09When we're talking about being, feeling beautiful and feeling safe and black hair in general,
00:53:14I think people focus on the challenges of it.
00:53:17And when we talk about the emotion of black hair, it's always about the struggle and I'm
00:53:22hated it or whatever.
00:53:23I want to talk about the joys.
00:53:25I want to talk about the things you love about black hair.
00:53:29What is something that you feel like is underestimated or underappreciated about black hair?
00:53:35And we kind of touched on it earlier, but people thinking black hair is difficult.
00:53:40The word, you know, any of those like notions associated with black hair just like really
00:53:45sets me off because black hair is, you know, and when I say black hair, y'all, to those of
00:53:52you that are listening, you know, I'm talking about textured hair.
00:53:56You know, how, um, beautiful our curls and coils are and how it is, we literally can defy
00:54:05gravity.
00:54:05I think we said that you and I, right.
00:54:07And, you know, as an editorial stylist, for me, when I have, um, you know, anyone with textured
00:54:14hair on set, I know I can manipulate it into any single shape that I want and it will hold
00:54:20in whatever I place it into.
00:54:22So I'm like, how can it be difficult?
00:54:24Yeah.
00:54:25It literally does what you tell it to do.
00:54:26You just gotta know how to do it.
00:54:28You just gotta know what to say.
00:54:30You gotta, yeah.
00:54:31You gotta know how to be a hair whisperer and whisper to it.
00:54:34So yeah, you're just not the right person for the job.
00:54:37Um, you know, or there's a lot of education being offered, you know, where you can, um,
00:54:42you know, seek out stylists that are offering classes, you know, YouTube university,
00:54:49literally like, you know, so.
00:54:50Even Chad GBT might be able to tell you.
00:54:52I know.
00:54:53Yeah.
00:54:53She, I still.
00:54:54Not my favorite.
00:54:55Not my favorite.
00:54:56But there are ways.
00:54:57There are resources.
00:54:58There are resources.
00:54:59Mama less research.
00:55:00Okay.
00:55:01So, so that for me is the joy of black hair, you know, that it can literally do everything
00:55:07that you want it to do if you know how to treat it right.
00:55:11And I think also something you mentioned was like, when you come to a service, you bring
00:55:14like champagne or you bring like a full experience.
00:55:16I think, well, maybe not all the time, but I'm just saying if I was in the, if I, if
00:55:21I was, you know, in a, had a salon experience, you know, or, or a suite, you know, I would
00:55:26create an environment that it's like an oasis.
00:55:29Like, you know, you're, you feel like you're, you've been transformed somewhere else.
00:55:34Yes.
00:55:34I mean, to the point of loving black hair, I think the space that you set up for yourself
00:55:38as you're doing your hair, like sometimes I'll like light a candle or something just
00:55:42so I can get in the mindset.
00:55:43We're about to do hair, you know?
00:55:45So, exactly.
00:55:46I love, I love a candle, a candle and a, you know, incense, palo santo.
00:55:52Like I love, you know, creating an environment, but those are, to me, those are the things
00:55:57that add to the service.
00:55:58It's like with anything, you get what you pay for, you know?
00:56:01So if you want the quick, whatever, you know, you got to be okay with the results and however
00:56:07it comes.
00:56:08Yeah.
00:56:09That's true.
00:56:09Okay.
00:56:10We are going to get to, I'm so excited, Lacey, because you have done so many iconic looks
00:56:16over the years on some iconic people.
00:56:21And so we are going to go through some of those looks and you're going to just tell us
00:56:26the breakdown.
00:56:27First up, we've got Tessa Thompson's braided cowboy hat at the Met Gala, which girl, when
00:56:34they showed me this picture, I was like, um, can we use one where we actually see Tessa's
00:56:38hair?
00:56:38Yeah, you're looking at it.
00:56:40I truly, I was like, my producer would be like, um.
00:56:43Um, no, it's, it's funny because me and Tessa have a way of being two years ahead of any
00:56:48trends.
00:56:48Like even this, like the swirly, like, you know, you just saw the golden globes.
00:56:53Yeah.
00:56:54You've been doing that.
00:56:55Pull up the receipts.
00:56:56Pull up the receipts.
00:56:57We've got the year.
00:56:58We've got the year on the braided cowboy hat.
00:57:00It was 2021.
00:57:02Yes.
00:57:02So this was before what?
00:57:05This was, you know, pre cowboy Carter or pre, uh, you know, any Western trends that
00:57:10we've ever seen.
00:57:11Yes.
00:57:12So let's just say that, you know, it's no, it's not a shade.
00:57:15It's like, I hope that is very clear.
00:57:17It's not, that's not what we're talking to us just about the mechanics of this.
00:57:20Like, how do you do something like this?
00:57:21So shout out to my girl, Tessa.
00:57:23I love her dearly, but you know, we, we are such a great collaborator and you know, I don't
00:57:29know if the astrology of it all has anything to do with it.
00:57:32That's my Libra sister and I'm a Virgo and I, and I work very well with Libra women.
00:57:37Like my manager, Alison, shout out Alison, you know, is also a Libra.
00:57:40So I, we get each other, each other, you know, so we dreamt up this idea at the last
00:57:48minute, y'all.
00:57:49Like literally I was in the car with her driving to the Met Gala, still finishing up the interior
00:57:57of the hat.
00:57:57Like that's how dedicated, like human hair braided around a hat.
00:58:04Yes.
00:58:04Okay.
00:58:05And like structured, you know, into the hat shape and, you know, and me and two of my assistants,
00:58:10literally I like all nighter pulled an all nighter to create that hat.
00:58:16Um, and it was, it was such an iconic moment because again, it was like pre any sort of
00:58:21Western trends that we've seen in the last several years.
00:58:24So it was, you know, we have a way of being a little bit ahead of the curve.
00:58:28When I see that, I'm like, Oh, that must've been six months before it.
00:58:30Was it kind of like a rush?
00:58:31Like while y'all are like pulling it all together, like how does it feel?
00:58:35It's always like that.
00:58:36I always feel like my job, I joke so much.
00:58:38Cause I'm like, also like Tyra was ahead of the curve with top model, but I always joke
00:58:42like I'm on a top model challenge.
00:58:44I always feel like I don't make it work, you know, top model and like project runway, you
00:58:49know, cause I'm always rushing to like create some elaborate thing because you know,
00:58:54God bless my clients, but they, you know, we, we, we always dream up some amazing ideas,
00:59:00but it's like always last minute.
00:59:02Okay.
00:59:02The next one is SZA's fluffy blowout for British Vogue.
00:59:08I love this.
00:59:09This is where the colors everything.
00:59:11Yeah.
00:59:12That was my first British Vogue cover.
00:59:15And I mean, SZA, come on.
00:59:17Like, you know, also two Jersey girls, you know, which was iconic.
00:59:23Um, it was a, it was great.
00:59:25It was like a blowout texture.
00:59:27Like if you just like brushed your hair out, brushed out all your curls out.
00:59:31And you know, we used a lot of like wind and machines on set to sort of create different
00:59:37shapes with it.
00:59:37I love that.
00:59:38I mean, I feel like if you know SZA's like journey, like she's known for that fluffy
00:59:42blowout look that like, I'm still trying to figure out how I can achieve that.
00:59:46So that is just, it's so good.
00:59:48Yeah.
00:59:48She's always hair inspo for sure.
00:59:50Yeah.
00:59:51Next one is a knock your eyes teeny weenie Afro for Elle magazine.
00:59:57We talked earlier about how far or not far we have come, right?
01:00:02About being able to showcase like, you know, styles like this on a magazine.
01:00:08Um, I just wanted her to feel herself, you know, just like, just easy, fresh, like, you
01:00:17know, I just had a pick on set and just making sure the shape was, you know, still very.
01:00:22Shape is immaculate.
01:00:23Yeah.
01:00:23Perfect.
01:00:24So that, that was an easy one.
01:00:25Okay.
01:00:26This is the final one.
01:00:27This is the cover of Vanity Fair.
01:00:28I want to be clear.
01:00:30This is the one I was referencing earlier.
01:00:31This is the cover of Vanity Fair.
01:00:34And this is Iowa debris in a big, full, beautiful fro that is also such a feminine, she's wearing
01:00:42all pink, such a feminine, beautiful cover.
01:00:45And she is in her full fro glory.
01:00:49Tell us about it.
01:00:50That's my girl right here.
01:00:51Um, this was an amazing cover because this was also shot by Rennell, who's an amazing
01:00:58black woman photographer from the Bronx, you know, so it was, it was such a beautiful black
01:01:04women collaboration, you know, on this set.
01:01:08And, um, and yeah, Rennell shot this.
01:01:11Yeah.
01:01:11And, you know, I, I, and we, I think had never seen IO this way before that, you know, and
01:01:20you know, we just wanted her again, you, you chose the right words from feel feminine,
01:01:25you know, and just kind of allow the space and her to like come through without the hair
01:01:32sort of taking up too much, you know, of the conversation.
01:01:35But obviously the hair is, is the moment, you know, and I also love it just, you were
01:01:41just like pushing back against the idea that an Afro can't be feminine.
01:01:44Yeah.
01:01:44It's not just being soft and beautiful.
01:01:47Exactly.
01:01:47I love that.
01:01:48Or cover worthy.
01:01:49Or cover worthy.
01:01:51I love that.
01:01:52Yeah.
01:01:53This is great.
01:01:54I mean, shout out to the people at Vendee Fair for trusting, you know, us to bring this
01:01:59concept to light.
01:02:01Ooh, I love that.
01:02:03I mean, you are an icon and we're so grateful for the work that you put out and the beautiful
01:02:10hair that we get to see and copy and emulate.
01:02:13Thank you for my current style.
01:02:14I appreciate you.
01:02:15Yes.
01:02:15I will, I will continue to give you some hair inspo.
01:02:19It might be, if you see me do something now, it might be two years ahead of when it starts
01:02:23to become a job.
01:02:24I gotta know.
01:02:25I gotta get out of it.
01:02:26So, go on board.
01:02:26Listen to Lacey.
01:02:28You'll be ahead.
01:02:29Yeah, that should be like, that's a nice, yeah.
01:02:31No, it's funny because, like, yeah.
01:02:34Oh.
01:02:35A nice little podcast.
01:02:36Listen to Lacey.
01:02:38I'm like, hold on now.
01:02:39Are you my producer?
01:02:42Just as amazing.
01:02:43No, it's like, you know, as we were talking about those little, like, you know, again,
01:02:49did not invent, you know, but it's like, you know, we helped re-bring the conversation
01:02:54back into the, you know, transfer of, like, what's going on, you know?
01:03:00And, like, me and Tessa did a few long braids, but, you know, at that moment, no one on the
01:03:06carpet was doing extreme lengths, you know?
01:03:08It was like for her Creed II premiere in London, we did a very extremely long braid, and two
01:03:15years later, long braids became a trend.
01:03:17Yeah.
01:03:17I love that.
01:03:18I love that, so.
01:03:19This is why you are Lacey Redway.
01:03:21Trendsetter, okay.
01:03:22The legend.
01:03:23The trendsetter.
01:03:24Thank you so much for joining us on Galossus.
01:03:27This is, it's over?
01:03:28Yeah.
01:03:30I feel like I'm just talking to my girl.
01:03:32You got anything else to go off on?
01:03:35Yeah.
01:03:35I feel like I went off too much.
01:03:37No, no, no, no.
01:03:38I'm like, ooh, I hope I can go back to work.
01:03:40No, I'm not.
01:03:42No, you were perfect.
01:03:43Thank you guys for having me.
01:03:44Of course.
01:03:45It's like, it's such a treat, always.
01:03:47You know, I adore you, Kathleen.
01:03:48I adore you.
01:03:48I adore you.
01:03:49So, it's a treat.
01:03:51No, we're on it to have you.
01:03:52Anytime I get to go off.
01:03:57Oh, I love Lacey so much.
01:03:59I'm so glad Lacey joined us.
01:04:00And so now we are at the end of the episode and we've come to one of my favorite parts
01:04:05of our podcast.
01:04:06If you are a longtime listener of Go Off Sis, you know that we are at the don't at me,
01:04:11which
01:04:12means you cannot at us.
01:04:14I am telling you, no matter what we say next, put your phone down, put the keyboard down.
01:04:21You cannot at us.
01:04:23Period.
01:04:24Period.
01:04:25We want to hear from you, but not now.
01:04:27Not on this.
01:04:27Not today.
01:04:28Not really.
01:04:28And for this edition of Don't At Me, I would like you, Sandy and Jess, to please indulge me
01:04:34because I'm going to kick it on over to myself.
01:04:36Oh, okay.
01:04:36Do we need, let me give my girl an intro.
01:04:39Oh, please.
01:04:39Okay.
01:04:40Tell us what's on your mind, Kathleen.
01:04:42It is time to let go of the chokehold edges have on all of us.
01:04:50Put down the edge control gel.
01:04:53Stop thinking that when you show up to the grocery store, your edges have to be laid.
01:04:59When you go somewhere in order to look professional, you have to have your edges laid.
01:05:05No, I don't care.
01:05:07I don't have baby hair.
01:05:08I'm grown.
01:05:09Let's put that need to do our edges all the time down.
01:05:14I'm not doing it no more.
01:05:16I want to free us, free yourself, free me, free all of us.
01:05:21I don't want this pressure of always having to have my edges laid.
01:05:25I don't want to have to do the drops and the things to make sure my edges are grown and
01:05:29beautiful and curled and da-da-da-da.
01:05:32No, it's okay.
01:05:34Hey, please don't come into my mentions and say, girl, your edges will look kind of whatever,
01:05:39which a DM I have gotten before.
01:05:41Leave me alone.
01:05:42Leave me alone.
01:05:44I don't want to do my edges.
01:05:45I don't think you should have to do your edges.
01:05:47The beauty girlies are going to come for me, but I'm starting a revolution.
01:05:51No more edges, okay?
01:05:53Yeah.
01:05:54Free us.
01:05:55Free us.
01:05:56Wait, no, we want edges.
01:05:58No more baby here?
01:06:00Okay, sure.
01:06:01Listen.
01:06:01We want our edges.
01:06:03We can have edges, but I'm saying the need to have our edges laid.
01:06:07Yes, yes, yes, yes.
01:06:08The need to have our edges done all the time.
01:06:10Yes, yes.
01:06:10But also, I'm also saying if you don't have edges, that's fine too.
01:06:13But yes, if you do have edges, I'm just saying we don't have to have them done all the time.
01:06:20Also, Sandy, you're not supposed to at me.
01:06:22Don't at me.
01:06:23Sorry, sorry.
01:06:24Did you say clarification?
01:06:25I'm following the directions.
01:06:27I'm not at you.
01:06:29I agree.
01:06:29I don't want it to so bad as my edges are dead.
01:06:34True.
01:06:34It was a little bit of a direct shock.
01:06:36I'm following a genius coming from that side, but I will follow the instructions and don't at you.
01:06:43I agree.
01:06:44I personally feel like if you make fun of my edges for being curly or anti-black, what do you
01:06:48mean
01:06:48I have to just swoop them down all the time.
01:06:50I used to shave the back of my head so that would my kitchen window show.
01:06:53Let the kitchen out.
01:06:54Let the kitchen out.
01:06:56This has been a tag team don't at me.
01:06:59Thank you for the assist, Sandy, and thank you for the assist, Jess.
01:07:03And y'all, don't at us.
01:07:06Period.
01:07:07Yeah.
01:07:07Period.
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