00:00 So if you see here in the palace, you can see only these white plaster.
00:04 This was actually all the inlay work, precious and semi-precious stones.
00:08 This entire palace was done up with glass and mirrors.
00:15 So this would have created such a beautiful effect.
00:17 But after 1857, the fall of the Mughal Empire, the whole fort was vandalized.
00:23 All the precious stones were taken away.
00:25 The inlay work was all gouged out.
00:27 So we have hardly anything left.
00:37 Hello and welcome to Outlook's Bibliophile, the place to come to for authors, for books,
00:42 for publishers, anything to do with the publishing industry.
00:44 Today we are going to be discussing this fascinating book, City of My Heart.
00:50 This is an account of the life that went on inside the Red Fort.
00:55 And what better place to discuss this than at the Red Fort itself.
00:58 We have with us the author of the book, historian, scholar, author, but above all that, a passionate
01:05 storyteller, Rana Safi.
01:08 Thank you ma'am for coming to join us in Bibliophile.
01:10 It's a pleasure to have you here.
01:12 From what I gather, this is a four translations of three books and a couple of short stories.
01:19 All of them written in the 1800s and describing the life within the fort.
01:25 Is that right?
01:26 One is written in 1885 but the others are written in the early part of the 20th century,
01:33 in 1920, 1934.
01:36 And they describe life in the fort as well as in the city of Shahjahanabad.
01:40 And the fourth book, which is the short stories, describes what happened to the survivors of
01:46 the Mughal Empire.
01:47 Because after the fall of Delhi, when the British took control of the fort, they chased
01:52 and killed almost all the royals.
01:54 Some managed to escape.
01:55 So, the story is of the survivors.
01:58 And we read in the book that the fort that we see today, it's only 20% of what the original
02:03 fort was.
02:04 Isn't that right?
02:05 Yes, because this was a densely populated fort.
02:08 There were about 2,000 to 3,000 people living inside.
02:11 There were workshops, there were nobles with their armies and their retinues, as well as
02:16 the entire haramshara of the palace.
02:19 But after the British took over, they systematically took down all the buildings which they felt
02:26 interfered with direct supervision of the fort so that no other rebellion can take place.
02:33 Also they took down all the buildings which were associated with the mutiny as they called
02:38 it.
02:39 So, this was a sort of a revenge or sort of a…
02:42 Yes, a reprisal against the Mughal Empire.
02:44 And the whole thing probably would have got destroyed if Lord Canning had not heard of
02:48 it and interfered.
02:49 So, Lord Canning saved whatever was left of the Diwane Khas, the Diwane Aam, some of the
02:54 palaces in the women's section, the Rana, and a few of the other like the gates.
03:00 And the gates of course they would keep because that was defensive for them and the Nawabat
03:04 Khan.
03:05 I see.
03:06 So, maybe we can now take a go inside and take a look at the places that Rana is describing.
03:10 Shall we?
03:11 Yes.
03:12 One of the most fascinating things in the book I found was that it was actually not
03:20 a red fort at all.
03:21 It was mostly white inside.
03:23 Is that right?
03:24 I mean it's actually the plaster which has gone off which we see now.
03:28 The original name was Qalai Mubarak or Qalai Shah Jahani.
03:31 Later on towards the 18th century it starts getting called Qalai Mawla or the Exalted
03:36 Fort.
03:37 Qalai Mubarak means blessed fort or auspicious fort and then by the time the later Mughals
03:44 come that is the end, towards the end of the Mughal dynasty where Bahadur Shah is ruling,
03:49 it starts getting called Lal Haveli because by then the plaster was fallen off and none
03:53 of the late like Bahadur Shah, Akbar Shah, none of them have the money to really plaster
03:58 it and put it back again.
03:59 Now there was a thick lime plaster on the walls, red on the red sandstone and on that
04:06 were paintings, floral, gilding, a lot of golden work was done and I normally tell everybody
04:12 that if you want to see what the Lal Qila would have looked like originally, you should
04:16 visit the Jain Mandirs because the Jain Mandirs are beautifully, yes and they are beautifully
04:21 painted from inside.
04:22 Over here you have some of the original paint where you can see in the wall they have enclosed
04:27 it with glass.
04:28 In fact this was also not, this plaster was done recently by Mr. KK Muhammad in the past
04:34 7-8 years or 10 years because otherwise this was also all red.
04:39 So even this plaster that we see now is not exactly the original?
04:42 No, no.
04:43 It was done later.
04:44 We are at Diwane Aam now and this is just what we see here is just a bare bones of what
04:56 it must have been at that time.
04:57 See this would have been, first of all it was all plastered and gilded, gilding, gold
05:02 painting all over the place.
05:04 All this would have been the carvings that you see would have been brought out in gold.
05:08 Apart from that, if you see it from outside you can still see some of the hooks.
05:13 It would have all been draped with carpets and velvets and brocades.
05:17 If the emperor wished to honour somebody, he would invite him to the throne and that
05:22 'Takhte Nasha Manne Zill-e-Ilahi' and he would go there and then he would, you know,
05:26 with his own hand sometimes he would give them a 'Sar-Pech' which are those ornaments
05:29 you see on the turbans.
05:30 So, it was the Bhukans as did the Delhi Sultanate, they followed the Persian etiquette of course.
05:38 And this was from the Sassanid Empire.
05:41 And the other account that you talk about is the change with the seasons.
05:45 It's I mean that is quite fascinating how, you know, from the summer to the autumn, winter
05:51 the change that happens.
05:53 That's also very fascinating.
05:54 So, every season had its own charm.
05:56 It had its own food.
05:57 It had its own, you know, everything around in the paraphernalia which would be observed.
06:02 You know, like as a child I remember my mother would never wear silks in summers or cottons
06:09 in winters.
06:10 So, she would have her own particular boxes where everything would be packed away.
06:13 The summer clothes are packed away.
06:15 The monsoon clothes would be taken out.
06:16 So, this is somebody they are very ordinary people.
06:19 So, you can imagine what the kings and the queens must be doing in those days.
06:22 Yeah.
06:23 You know, Rana, one thing though it strikes a reader when one goes through the book.
06:27 I mean they seem to be only celebrating and there are only festivities.
06:30 Didn't they ever work?
06:31 By 1803, the British have taken over the administration of Delhi.
06:34 In fact, there is a very famous saying, "Sultanate Shah Alam, Az Dilli Ta Palam."
06:39 That the kingdom of Shah Alam is only restricted from Delhi to Palam.
06:44 And by the time Bahadur Shah comes, it's only restricted to this Red Fort.
06:48 That's it.
06:49 And even in the Red Fort, he could not do anything without the permission of the resident
06:52 and the Khaledab, that is the British commandant who used to live here.
06:56 You know, one thing I wanted to ask you about is the difficulty of translating something
06:59 like this.
07:00 You know, some of it is Persian and then Urdu and then it's all a very idiomatic, you know,
07:06 the language they speak.
07:07 So, what are the problems that you faced while translating it?
07:10 Persian is very limited.
07:12 There were just a few verses in Persian but otherwise the whole thing is Urdu.
07:16 There is a lot of problems.
07:19 See, I understand all the nuances of the language that is being said.
07:22 I know the history that is being talked about.
07:25 But as far as the idioms are concerned, the language of the Delhi, ladies especially,
07:32 was very, very idiomatic.
07:34 It has a special name, "Dilli ki Begmati Dawaan" and the language spoken in Delhi also.
07:39 So translating that into English, however much I may understand it, is difficult because
07:45 as my editor said, that when I could find equivalence to every Urdu saying or muhawara
07:53 but like he said, he said, you know, that this is too English.
07:56 It doesn't go with the rest of the ambience of the book where I'm talking of a particular
08:00 culture and a time frame.
08:03 We are at Rang Mahal, the women's quarters, right?
08:05 If you would like to, you know, describe a life of the women at that time?
08:09 See, within the fort itself, there was the palace area where only the women could come
08:13 in, where the women lived and only the emperor and the eunuchs and the female warriors would
08:18 be guarding them and the emperor could come in.
08:20 Now, a lot of the book is set in that area.
08:23 Just after Diwane Khas, all the way down to what is now called Mumtaz Mahal, which was
08:28 actually the Choti Baithak and Badi Baithak and all these places, it would be very richly
08:36 furnished and of course carpet, bolsters, cushions and brocades and velvets and the
08:43 Mehre Bahisht flew through it.
08:45 It was a cooling stream underneath the marble of the flooring to keep the whole thing clean.
08:50 And then suddenly it would come out, the stream would come out wherever there was an open
08:54 space and there would be fountains and pools.
08:57 So just to make it cool and give the effect of heaven.
09:01 Because it is just here that in the Diwane Khas that you have the verse written, "Garfir
09:04 dos barru e zami ast, thami ast, thami ast, thami ast".
09:07 If there is a heaven on earth, it is here.
09:11 Which is sort of mistakenly said to be of Kashmir, isn't it?
09:15 Yes and it is not written by Hazrat Ameer Khosrow.
09:18 We don't know who the writer is.
09:19 I see.
09:20 But it is not in any of his Diwans, in Hazrat Ameer Khosrow's Diwans.
09:26 So here the women would live and there were so many celebrations all the time.
09:31 There would be some celebration happening and a very interesting celebration that is
09:35 described in the book is the Jashn-e-Tajposhi or the celebration of the coronation of the
09:39 emperor where they would soak urad dal and then they would make vadas out of it.
09:44 So the dal would be soaked by the chief consort.
09:47 In Bahadur Shah's case it was Zeenat Mahal and when it was ground, then the first vada
09:53 would be put into the oil by the Badshah himself.
09:55 Wow.
09:56 So such a very syncretic custom because a lot of, like Bahadur Shah's mother was also
10:01 a Rajput.
10:02 Most of the Mughals had a lot of Rajput blood in them and there were so many people from,
10:08 men from different areas living in the harem and so they assimilated and they adapted and
10:13 they you know all the customs into their own customs and when you see, there's a description
10:20 of Dasara and when the Dasara is being celebrated in the court, there's a formal court being
10:26 held and at that time a neelkanth is let loose.
10:30 A neelkanth is the victory, the bird in Hindu customs.
10:33 So all these things you see a beautiful amalgamation of the customs of India.
10:39 I won't even say Hindu or Muslim because they're all Indian customs that have been, like Eid
10:43 Bakrid, Muharram, all this is being celebrated and observed inside the Red Fort along with
10:49 Holi, Diwali and Raksha Bandhan.
10:51 When they talk of harem, they think it is about women who are sexually available to
10:55 the emperor.
10:56 It's not that.
10:57 These women are there for a lot of the women did perform the administrative tasks.
11:02 So say in a harem only about 5% would be those who had, were in an intimate relation with
11:07 the emperor, the rest would be his relatives, his aunts, mother, the fathers, wives and
11:13 you know like sisters, nieces, etc. etc.
11:16 We are at Diwane Khas where the emperor held a special court and where the peacock throne
11:21 was, correct?
11:22 Yes.
11:23 So this is actually, this building was the only building that's made completely of marble
11:28 and it was heavily decorated with inlay work of precious and semi-precious stone.
11:34 It had a silver ceiling and this is where as you said the peacock throne was kept and
11:40 where the emperor would call his special nobles there for, or give them audience.
11:47 In 1857 when the emperor was captured, the British soldiers drank to the health of the
11:52 queen right here.
11:55 And after that when the Darbar was held in 1911, then the same Jharoka from where the
12:01 emperor would give Jharoka Darshan, the king of England also gave Jharoka to his subjects.
12:07 So things keep changing and that's how it is.
12:11 And in this book you know there is a very beautiful sentence by Bahadur Shah Lafar where
12:16 he says that we also took the crown from somebody and somebody has taken it from us and that
12:21 is the way of the world.
12:23 So that's the way of the world that things come, things go, people come, people go, emperors
12:28 come, kings come, nothing is permanent in this life and that's what we should realize.
12:34 Thank you so much for being with us, it was an absolute pleasure and many many congratulations
12:38 once again on the book.
12:39 I am sure you know it will do extremely well and it's really a fascinating account of the
12:44 life inside the Delhi.
12:46 Thank you very much.
12:47 And as I said in the beginning, Bibliophile is this sort of a new channel that we have
12:52 started in the Outlook website where you know it's all about books.
12:55 We'll be talking to authors, reviewing books, taking excerpts, so anything that you wanted
13:01 to know, anything about books, that's the place to come to.
13:03 Thank you.
13:04 Thank you.
13:04 Thank you.
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