Subir Sinha, director of SOAS, South Asia Institute, in conversation with Outlook, talks about the credibility of the election process.
He said: “I don’t believe EVMs are being hacked, and there’s no large-scale evidence of machines being switched, but there are still serious questions that need answers." He added: "Anomalies like fluctuating vote percentages, crucial data that’s usually shared with all parties, not being made available, and counting that slows down in some constituencies while speeding up in others need to be explained."
#BiharElections #EVM #BiharVoters #BiharElectionsResults
He said: “I don’t believe EVMs are being hacked, and there’s no large-scale evidence of machines being switched, but there are still serious questions that need answers." He added: "Anomalies like fluctuating vote percentages, crucial data that’s usually shared with all parties, not being made available, and counting that slows down in some constituencies while speeding up in others need to be explained."
#BiharElections #EVM #BiharVoters #BiharElectionsResults
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00This was not a fake news-led, you know, election as we have seen elsewhere.
00:05But, you know, this was not a communally polarizing election such as what one sees, you know.
00:11So, for a vote like this, you have to have some deeply polarizing issue.
00:16And everyone said, no, you know, Niteesh toh theekhi hain.
00:20You know, Niteesh toh theekhi hain does not get you 200 seats.
00:24Yeah.
00:24Welcome, Subirji.
00:30Subirji has been writing for Outlook for a long time.
00:34And he's from Bihar.
00:37And we just wanted to ask him about this election result.
00:42Now, the thing is, none of us actually thought it would be this kind of a thing.
00:47You know, 200 crossing is a big deal.
00:50Also, JTU has almost doubled the seats.
00:53Now, how did this happen?
00:54Ase toh kuchh, zameen peh ham log itina discuss ki ye kahi dikha neye saha is tarah se.
00:59So, maybe we were not able to see or what was it?
01:02I mean, the ground did not speak as much.
01:04Aap batayeya, aapko zahada maloog.
01:06See, first of all, let me tell your viewers ki, mai toh London mein baitha hain.
01:10I've been sitting in London.
01:11Obviously, I've been following the whole process very as closely as one can.
01:17So, you know, I can't get a feel of the ground per se.
01:20But I'll just say a few things.
01:22It is a shocking outcome because, you know, voters have to vote for something.
01:26Yeah.
01:27And they have to vote against something.
01:29So, if you're looking for, you know, voters, what did they vote for?
01:33Yeah.
01:33I mean, Nitish, what was the record that he went to the elections with?
01:39Now, as far as the entire rhetoric that we represent development and they represent Jangal Raj, which I think was the main rhetoric.
01:46I mean, you know, Bihar languishes pretty much at the bottom of all developmental indices.
01:51It remains the poorest of the states, except there might be districts in Ulisha and Bengal and elsewhere which might be poorer.
02:00For 15 years, it has provided the hyper-exploited labor to other parts of the country.
02:07If you look at the structure and availability of healthcare for the masses, it is in a complete shambles.
02:15Even if you take a look at law and order, you know, as National Crime Bureau statistics, let me remind your viewers, as Thira Svi Adhav himself had pointed out repeatedly,
02:30even on crime, this has been not a period that has been better than the Jangal Raj period.
02:35Bridges have collapsed.
02:37Schools are non-existent.
02:39So, it is very difficult to accept that this is a result for development.
02:44Could it be the case that it is a verdict, in fact, not a verdict, but, you know, a complete mandate for what was being offered?
02:54And if you again take a look at what was being offered, you didn't, you know, you viped the record of what had happened.
03:02But then you have to look forward to what was being offered in the near future.
03:07So, there, you know, you have a number of things that were offered that also I have never found that there was much traction for these things in Bihar.
03:17Now, that, as we know, that has already been on the cards.
03:20So, you know, it isn't the case that it has been brought up for the first time.
03:25Reactivation of sugar mills.
03:26Now, we have heard that before.
03:28But also, sometimes they said five sugar mills.
03:32Sometimes they said 25 sugar mills.
03:34There was no clear plan also for any employment generation within the state.
03:39Some of the statements made by the Prime Minister that Bihar will be made into an AI hub.
03:45Just sounded so, I mean, out there and with no traction with reality.
03:50In fact, Amisha said that industries
03:51nahin lag sata, Bihar mein zameen nahi hai.
03:54Haan, bilkul. So, I mean, this,
03:55and he said ki, you know, Bihar mein
03:58zameen nahi hai, toh yaha pe aapka mass
03:59industrialization laghi nahi sata hai.
04:01So, I mean, they themselves said,
04:04so, you know, the offer
04:05that they made was also not that
04:07great and offer also in terms of the
04:09candidates that they made was not that
04:11great. I mean, take a look at someone like
04:13Meitini Thakur, you know, complete
04:15novice speaking nonsense
04:18effectively in her campaign
04:19speeches that one was able to see.
04:22So, you know, I mean, this is the kind of
04:23outcome that one doesn't see even after
04:26major attacks
04:27on Pakistan and other things that
04:29excite the public a lot.
04:31This is the kind of outcome that
04:33the idea that somehow this is a silent
04:36voter who has
04:38pushed the NDA with its
04:39record. And, you know, you have an Anand Singh.
04:42He has
04:43prepared Rasgurlads and Gulab Jamuns
04:45for one lakh people over the last one day.
04:48In his constituency,
04:50a murder of a prominent
04:51person of the other
04:54camp happens in broad daylight.
04:55He is then, you know, put into jail,
04:58you know, I don't know whether for his
04:59safekeeping or for the safekeeping of
05:01his constituency.
05:03Then you also see that,
05:04you know, this kind of outcome
05:06would basically say, you know,
05:07suggest very heightened emotions.
05:10And if you look at the heightened emotions,
05:11then they didn't come from the BJP
05:14voter or they didn't come from
05:15the,
05:16you know,
05:18JDU voter.
05:19The heightened emotions came from
05:21youth.
05:22And the youth
05:23were, you know, from what
05:25we understand, they were basically
05:27saying that it is time for change
05:28and that, you know,
05:30they had they wanted,
05:32you know,
05:33employment within the state.
05:35And this was one of the
05:37key messages
05:38that was coming through
05:39in not just your coverage,
05:41but even in the
05:42quote unquote
05:42Godi media coverage.
05:43So, you know,
05:44that that was the case.
05:46Women voters now
05:47are Bihari women.
05:49And not everyone
05:50obviously got the 10,000.
05:51But, you know,
05:52we also heard from many of them
05:54saying, yes, that was good.
05:55But, you know,
05:55I'm interested in having my son
05:57get employment within the state
05:59and things like that.
06:00So to think of them
06:02as easily swayed
06:04by 10,000 rupees.
06:07Many of them also
06:08came out and said, yes,
06:09we understand exactly
06:10what's going on.
06:11So the Bihari voter
06:13was not that fraudulent
06:14and not easily swayed
06:17by these kinds of things.
06:18Then we take a look at
06:19the campaign
06:21against the MGB.
06:24And then I think,
06:25you know,
06:26there are some serious
06:27lessons for them.
06:28What could they have done better?
06:31What did they do well?
06:33So there we basically
06:34take a look at two things.
06:35One, the Congress,
06:36I'm sure,
06:37will be performing
06:37very badly.
06:39But also,
06:40I just did not understand
06:42what they were trying to do.
06:43In the sense that
06:44between being a nice person,
06:47which I think
06:48most people say
06:49about Rahul Gandhi,
06:50and then to raise
06:52the issue of vote churi,
06:53which seems to have
06:54gotten some traction,
06:56and then to not do
06:57any follow-up
06:58and to just be missing
07:00for a whole month
07:01with the elections coming,
07:03it just speaks of
07:05a complete lack
07:06of seriousness.
07:07And anyone,
07:08I mean,
07:08myself included,
07:10who thought that
07:10he was in some ways
07:12going to be
07:12the national spearhead
07:14against Hindutva,
07:15should disabuse
07:16themselves of that.
07:17I think that he is not
07:18a politician
07:19who has any capacity
07:20because he's not
07:22a politician.
07:23To be in politics,
07:25you know,
07:25requires more
07:26than having
07:27PowerPoint presentations
07:29and then disappearing
07:30from the scene.
07:31So I,
07:31to say that I'm disappointed
07:32is,
07:33it would be a massive
07:34understatement.
07:35And I think that,
07:36you know,
07:37other people should
07:38step forward,
07:39not just within
07:40the Congress Party.
07:41I cannot see how
07:42this can be a
07:42one-person campaign
07:44against vote churi.
07:45I mean,
07:46you know,
07:46at least serious cases
07:48should have been filed.
07:50You know,
07:50the kind of evidence
07:51that he says he had.
07:53And,
07:54you know,
07:54once again,
07:54these questions will arise
07:56because just before
07:58coming on your show,
08:00I had a chance
08:00to watch NDTV
08:01and,
08:03was it NDTV?
08:04They were basically
08:05saying that
08:06lacks of votes
08:07were actually added
08:08just prior to counting.
08:10The vote count
08:11went from 7.42
08:12to 7.52,
08:14et cetera,
08:14et cetera.
08:14So,
08:15you know,
08:15the system,
08:16you know,
08:17lacks credibility.
08:17But I'll come to that
08:18in just a minute.
08:19If I can say that
08:21other elements
08:22of the opposition
08:24that might have hurt them,
08:26I think,
08:27and,
08:27you know,
08:27I like
08:28they just feel Yadav
08:29and I think he's
08:30a good politician
08:31and he,
08:32you know,
08:34speaks well.
08:35He speaks well in English
08:36also and so on
08:37and so forth.
08:38But,
08:39in an aspirational state,
08:41to have not finished
08:42his high school
08:43is not a non-issue.
08:45You can't say,
08:46keep,
08:46you know,
08:46PM kabhi toh,
08:47we don't know,
08:48et cetera.
08:48That is all fine.
08:49You know,
08:49that is a different matter.
08:51But if you're
08:52of a certain age
08:53and there are ways
08:54of having passed
08:55your high school
08:56in Bihar,
08:57as they say,
08:58private se kar liye hain,
09:00you know,
09:01correspondence course,
09:02se BA,
09:03et cetera,
09:03you know,
09:04you should have
09:04been able to,
09:06you know,
09:07basically patch up
09:09this very major weakness
09:10in your profile.
09:12So,
09:12between,
09:14I thought also
09:15that he became
09:16extremely overconfident
09:17and,
09:19you know,
09:20crowds
09:20don't always translate
09:22into votes.
09:24That is true.
09:25That is also true.
09:26So,
09:26now let me come to
09:27the election process
09:29itself.
09:30I'm sure I will not
09:31be the first one
09:31to say this
09:32and not the last one
09:33to say this,
09:34but I think it's a matter
09:35of great concern
09:36for Indian democracy
09:37as a whole
09:38that credibility
09:39of the process
09:42is at a low point
09:44and especially
09:46among those
09:46who lose elections
09:48because,
09:49you know,
09:50in a democracy,
09:51losers should be able
09:53to understand
09:54firstly,
09:55why they lost
09:56and secondly,
09:57they should be,
09:58they should,
09:59I mean,
09:59you know,
09:59in a massive exercise
10:01like elections
10:01across India
10:02or in a state
10:03like Bihar,
10:05anomalies
10:05can happen
10:06and things
10:07can happen
10:08which should
10:09not happen
10:10but an entire
10:11process should
10:12not have a
10:13set of question
10:14marks on top
10:15of it.
10:16Completely.
10:16And,
10:17you know,
10:18and that is
10:18the lack of
10:19and the kind
10:20of rapidly
10:21declining
10:22credibility
10:22of the
10:23electoral system,
10:25especially
10:26among people
10:27who have lost,
10:28you know,
10:29the election
10:30and,
10:31you know,
10:31you can
10:32talk about
10:33the 10,000
10:33rupees
10:34announcement
10:35a few days
10:36before,
10:37the fact that,
10:38you know,
10:38tranches of that
10:39payment was made
10:40during the elections
10:42and the election
10:43commission basically
10:44came out
10:45and said,
10:45well,
10:45this is a
10:46scheme-related
10:47payment
10:49and so therefore
10:50we cannot stop it.
10:52So,
10:52I think,
10:53you know,
10:53it will only
10:54deepen the perception
10:55of the opacity
10:57regarding women
10:58voters after
10:58round one.
11:00You know,
11:00I don't believe
11:01that EVMs
11:03can be hacked
11:04and,
11:05you know,
11:05we don't have,
11:06as far as I'm aware,
11:08large-scale evidence
11:09of EVMs being
11:11switched and
11:11things like that.
11:12But the idea
11:14that vote
11:14percentage keeps
11:16going up and
11:17down,
11:18that crucial
11:19data that is
11:20customarily released
11:21to all parties,
11:23that is not
11:23available.
11:24Slowing down
11:25of counting
11:26in several
11:27constituencies
11:28and speeding
11:29up of,
11:29you know,
11:30in several
11:31constituencies
11:32and results
11:34like mass
11:35leaders coming
11:35forth in their
11:36own constituencies,
11:38these have to
11:40be explained
11:40and they have
11:42to be understood.
11:43And my final
11:44point is the
11:44understanding and
11:45explanation of
11:46Indian elections.
11:48And I think
11:49that we have now
11:50entered a phase
11:50where no one
11:51really knows
11:52what's going
11:53on.
11:54You know,
11:55I mean,
11:56there are
11:56certain things
11:57that you can
11:58say that
11:59lead people
12:00to win
12:01elections.
12:01I mean,
12:02Prime Minister
12:02made many
12:03trips and
12:04he spent a
12:04lot of time
12:05in Bihar.
12:06Were his
12:07speeches very
12:08inspirational in
12:09such a way,
12:10I mean,
12:10to win 100
12:11odd seats in
12:12Bihar,
12:13that means
12:14that you have
12:15actually stretched
12:16your vote
12:17base well
12:18beyond what it
12:19was the last
12:20time.
12:20Yeah.
12:20and others
12:22have lost
12:22their vote
12:23base compared
12:25to what they
12:25had last
12:26time.
12:27So,
12:27you know,
12:28who are
12:29these people,
12:29the new
12:30voters,
12:31so to speak,
12:32who would
12:32have had to
12:33go to the
12:33BJP in
12:34order for it
12:35to have got
12:36the number
12:37of seats
12:37that it
12:37has.
12:38Now,
12:39one is,
12:40did other
12:41political
12:41parties,
12:42you know,
12:43damage the
12:44opposition in
12:45such a way
12:45that they
12:46did not
12:47need a
12:47very large
12:48number of
12:48new voters.
12:49So,
12:50we'll have to
12:50see Jan
12:51Suraj and
12:51so forth and
12:52what kind of
12:53vote percentage
12:54they had.
12:54But in the
12:55absence of
12:56that,
12:57the Prime
12:57Minister's
12:58speeches were
12:58very crass.
13:00In most
13:01cases,
13:02they lacked
13:02substance.
13:04It was
13:05like
13:06greatest hits
13:07repeat from
13:082014 in
13:09many cases.
13:09Many of the
13:10phrases were
13:10the same.
13:12Speeches by
13:12Himanta Biswasarma
13:14or Yogi
13:15you know,
13:18with the
13:18communal poison.
13:22Exactly.
13:23You know,
13:23I mean,
13:24the speeches
13:24also of
13:25Amit Shah and
13:26of any of
13:26the star
13:27campaigners
13:27were really
13:29not good.
13:30We saw
13:31Vijay Sina,
13:32the Deputy
13:32Chief Minister
13:33being abused
13:35and manhandled
13:36in his own
13:37constituency.
13:38Yeah.
13:39So,
13:39yeah.
13:39So,
13:39either none
13:40of this
13:40matters and
13:41like,
13:41you know,
13:41the same
13:42person who's
13:42doing the
13:43manhandling
13:43is then
13:44going and
13:45voting.
13:46So,
13:46you know,
13:46there's a
13:47kind of
13:47inscrutability
13:48about Indian
13:49elections and
13:49I'm particularly
13:50troubled about
13:51people who
13:53make theories
13:55like Labarthi
13:56theory and
13:58so on and
13:58so forth.
13:59Because what
14:00was the
14:01lab?
14:02In order for
14:03there to have
14:03been Labarthi
14:04theory,
14:05then the
14:06person has
14:06to have some
14:07kind of
14:07lab.
14:08And yes,
14:09there have
14:10been certain
14:10schemes that
14:11were extremely
14:11popular among
14:12women.
14:12But,
14:13you know,
14:13they have
14:13run their
14:13course.
14:15The 10,000
14:15rupees didn't
14:16go to all
14:16the women
14:17of Bihar.
14:17They went
14:18to a
14:18particular
14:18segment of
14:19the population.
14:20If you
14:21look at
14:21this,
14:21and as I
14:22said,
14:22I mean,
14:22you know,
14:23welfarist or
14:24developmental or
14:25even cash
14:27transfers and
14:28other kinds of
14:28schemes which
14:29are targeted,
14:30I'm not sure
14:31that, you
14:32know,
14:32these were,
14:33how could
14:34you be
14:34languishing at
14:35the bottom of
14:35the development
14:36index and
14:38still consider
14:39yourself to
14:39be a
14:39labarthi.
14:40I just
14:40don't,
14:41these two
14:42things.
14:42Actually,
14:42a question
14:43that we
14:44wanted,
14:45kind of,
14:46we're looking
14:47for an
14:47answer.
14:48See,
14:48a lot of
14:48people have
14:49talked about
14:49the Bihari
14:50mindset,
14:51which is
14:51when I
14:52was covering
14:53in Bihar,
14:55the last
14:55election that
14:56happened.
14:57And I
14:57read a lot
14:58of these
14:58migrant
14:58corridors,
14:59so as to
15:00speak,
15:00Darbhanga,
15:01Sahid and
15:02all that.
15:02And when
15:03we asked
15:03migrant laborers
15:05who went
15:05through hell
15:06coming back
15:07to their
15:07state,
15:08and in
15:08fact,
15:08they were
15:08not allowed
15:09to enter
15:09Bihar
15:10because of
15:10the safety
15:11concern
15:11or whatever,
15:13they said
15:13there's no
15:14wrong.
15:15So there
15:16is some
15:16psychological
15:17explanation
15:18to be
15:19made here
15:20in terms
15:21of,
15:21and I
15:21don't know
15:21who to
15:22ask,
15:23because
15:23somebody
15:23told me
15:24in Bihar
15:24that if
15:25you
15:25go to
15:26drink
15:26and
15:27you
15:27don't
15:28take
15:29it.
15:29So I
15:29think it
15:30defines
15:30Bihar
15:31in that
15:31sense
15:31that we
15:32don't
15:34want
15:35more,
15:35either
15:35we're
15:35afraid
15:36of
15:36wanting
15:36more,
15:37or I
15:37don't
15:38know
15:38what
15:38it
15:38is.
15:38What
15:38do you
15:38think
15:39it
15:39is?
15:39These
15:48are
15:48interesting
15:48statements.
15:49I mean,
15:49you know,
15:49Bihari
15:50migrant
15:50workers,
15:51we were
15:52told,
15:52you know,
15:52as we
15:53saw,
15:53they were
15:53being,
15:54you know,
15:54brought
15:54in by
15:55trains and
15:56things like
15:56that to
15:56vote.
15:58But we
15:58also heard
15:59that Bihari
15:59migrant
16:00workers are
16:00not
16:00necessarily
16:01100%
16:02behind the
16:03BJP.
16:03they did
16:06all kinds
16:06of things
16:07to,
16:07you know,
16:08I mean,
16:08the fact
16:08that you
16:08have had
16:09to go
16:09and it
16:10was made
16:10into such
16:11a big
16:11thing,
16:12the idea
16:13of the
16:13migrant
16:13worker.
16:14And we
16:15know,
16:15you know,
16:16they're
16:16cheated
16:17outside of
16:18Bihar,
16:19there is
16:19wage theft,
16:20they're paid
16:21less money,
16:22many times
16:22they don't
16:22even know
16:23who the
16:24employer
16:25is.
16:26In fact,
16:26during COVID,
16:27the statistic
16:28had come
16:28from Bangalore
16:29that 85%
16:31of migrant
16:31workers over
16:32there had
16:32no idea
16:33who the
16:33ultimate
16:34employer was
16:35beyond the
16:35contractor,
16:37you know,
16:38so these
16:39are statements
16:40which one
16:42hears.
16:42And also,
16:43I mean,
16:43I don't buy
16:43that Biharis
16:44are happy
16:45with just
16:45what they
16:45have.
16:46If that
16:46was the
16:47case,
16:47they would
16:47have not
16:48migrated.
16:48They migrated
16:49because they
16:50were not
16:50happy with
16:50what they
16:51had.
16:52They migrated
16:53so that they
16:54could have a
16:54little bit
16:54more of
16:55what they
16:55had.
16:56X-factor
16:57Bihari
16:57women,
16:58you know,
16:59on the
17:00one hand
17:01during the
17:01day of
17:02the voting,
17:04we were
17:04told that
17:05their lines
17:05were long
17:06but the
17:07lines of
17:07younger people
17:08and men
17:09was longer.
17:10We were
17:11told that
17:11the alcohol
17:12issue is
17:13a game
17:13changer and
17:14people are
17:14not reading
17:15it.
17:16You know,
17:17the people
17:18who said
17:18alcohol
17:19produces
17:19employment
17:21and alcohol
17:22factories being
17:22shut down
17:23has been
17:23a very
17:24major disaster
17:25in the
17:26places in
17:26which we
17:27had that.
17:27you know,
17:28all of
17:29those
17:29things,
17:30the Bihar
17:31women vote
17:32on the
17:33sole question
17:34of alcohol.
17:37It could
17:38be that
17:38they do.
17:38I don't
17:39know.
17:40Secondly,
17:41is it the
17:42case that
17:42there is
17:42no alcohol
17:43on sale
17:43in Bihar
17:44despite the
17:44fact that
17:45there is
17:45prohibition?
17:46I mean,
17:46obviously there
17:47is sale
17:47of alcohol
17:48all over
17:49the place.
17:51So I
17:51think that
17:52is a
17:52non-starter
17:53as a
17:54kind of
17:54explanation
17:55for this.
17:56I remember
17:57a long
17:58time ago
17:58when the
18:00alcohol ban
18:01had been
18:02introduced,
18:03I knew
18:04women,
18:05especially
18:05working
18:06women,
18:07especially
18:07of the
18:08lower
18:08classes,
18:10who were
18:10very happy
18:11with that
18:11because remember
18:12that alcohol
18:14was doing
18:16the rounds.
18:16I personally
18:17lost one
18:18friend two
18:18years ago
18:19drinking
18:21spurious
18:21alcohol in
18:22Patna.
18:23So I
18:25think the
18:25idea that
18:26somehow the
18:27alcohol ban
18:28meant there
18:29was no
18:29alcohol rather
18:31than the
18:31fact that
18:31the alcohol
18:32ban meant
18:33that there
18:33was spurious
18:34alcohol.
18:36So I
18:36don't buy
18:37that either.
18:37So I
18:38think election
18:40analysts will
18:40have, and
18:41I'm not one,
18:42so election
18:42analysts will
18:43have a tough
18:44time dealing
18:44with this
18:45because there
18:46is an overall
18:47feeling not
18:49just in Bihar
18:50or India but
18:51in the
18:51world that
18:52politics has
18:53moved in a
18:53direction that
18:54political scientists
18:55are incapable
18:56fully to
18:57understand or
18:58to explain.
19:00You know,
19:00one used to
19:01think about
19:01fake news and
19:02social media and
19:03all that, but
19:03there was some
19:04of that, but
19:05this was not a
19:06fake news led
19:07election as we
19:09have seen
19:09elsewhere.
19:11Communal
19:12polarisation,
19:13yes, there was
19:13a bit of that
19:14kind of thing,
19:15especially,
19:16but you know,
19:17this was not a
19:17communally
19:18polarising election
19:19such as what
19:20one sees, you
19:21know, so for
19:23a vote like
19:23this, you
19:24have to have
19:25some deeply
19:26polarising issue
19:27and everyone
19:29said, no,
19:30you know,
19:31Niteesh toh
19:31theekhi hain,
19:33you know,
19:33Niteesh toh
19:34theekhi hain,
19:35does not get
19:35200 seats.
19:36Yeah,
19:37JNU has
19:38doubled almost,
19:39I mean,
19:40this is also a
19:44party with no
19:45succession plan,
19:46this is also a
19:47party in which
19:48you had open
19:49challenges to
19:50Niteesh coming
19:51from Laland
19:52Singh.
19:54Niteesh himself
19:55has not appeared
19:56very well and
19:57very strong in
20:00the last several
20:01months with all
20:01the speculations,
20:02including from
20:03his allies,
20:05you know,
20:06regarding his
20:07physical and
20:08mental health and
20:09so on and so
20:09forth.
20:10So,
20:12for all of
20:13these reasons,
20:14the outcome of
20:15one side getting
20:16200-load seats
20:18is very,
20:19very difficult to
20:20explain and to
20:21understand.
20:22Because Niteesh
20:23just came out
20:24with these posters
20:24saying,
20:25Tiger abhi zinda hai,
20:26to kind of make
20:27a statement that,
20:28look, I'm around
20:29and there's no
20:30messing with me.
20:31Now the question
20:32is what is going
20:33to happen next?
20:34Firstly, I was not
20:35certain that they
20:35would win.
20:36Okay, so let me
20:37say that I was
20:38very wrong in my
20:39assessment of that.
20:40I was very wrong.
20:41Exactly.
20:43But I thought if
20:45they were to win,
20:46they'd probably get
20:46about 140-150 seats.
20:49And secondly,
20:51that if the BJP
20:53had more seats
20:54than Niteesh,
20:55that would create
20:56a problem.
20:57Exactly.
20:58There will be many
20:59in the BJP who
21:00would want to be
21:00Chief Minister.
21:02There'd be many
21:03in the JDU who
21:04would want to join
21:04the BJP so that
21:05they can become
21:06Chief Minister.
21:08But, you know,
21:09with 200-odd
21:10seats, the idea
21:12that they would
21:13or the hope
21:14that they would
21:15somehow collapse
21:16and things like
21:16that, that
21:17obviously recedes.
21:19You know, when
21:20you have such
21:20an overwhelming
21:21majority, then
21:23you should be
21:25able to, you
21:25should expect
21:26that you will
21:26last, you know,
21:28the entire, you
21:29know, five years.
21:31Where this leaves
21:32the RJD, I think,
21:33is a very big
21:34question.
21:35I mean, you know,
21:35the idea that,
21:36yeah, so I mean,
21:37you know, the
21:38idea of dynasty,
21:39you know, it's
21:40not a non-issue.
21:41Yes, one can say
21:42that almost all
21:43parties have
21:44dynasties, you
21:44know, fair enough.
21:45Father to son
21:46succession and
21:48mother to son
21:48succession as in
21:49the case of the
21:50Congress, these
21:51are not really
21:52good ways to run
21:54a political party
21:55and we know
21:57that, you know,
21:58whether or not
21:58individuals are
21:59nice and whether
22:00or not other
22:01political parties
22:02have the same
22:03thing.
22:03Yes, they do
22:04and individuals
22:05are nice, but
22:06the idea of
22:07dynasty is,
22:09has more
22:10traction than I
22:11think many
22:11people, you
22:13know, think.
22:13But also, I
22:13mean, you know,
22:14on the dynasty
22:14issue, I'm
22:18like really
22:19struggling to
22:20see in what
22:23way that would
22:23have dented the
22:24chances of the
22:25MGB because we
22:26also saw that
22:27these people had
22:28huge attendance
22:31in their rallies,
22:32you know, so.
22:33Yeah, I was
22:34there at so
22:34many rallies and
22:35it was huge,
22:36like you could
22:36have gotten
22:37into a stampede
22:38position.
22:39I was there
22:40in Hachipur,
22:41I was there
22:42in Hussain
22:43Ganj, you
22:43know, in
22:44Siwan, I
22:44mean.
22:46But also, I
22:47mean, you
22:47know, did
22:48they just
22:52get tricked
22:53into making
22:54absurd promises
22:55himself?
22:56I think that
22:56is another
22:57question.
22:58One of the
22:59statements that
23:00I thought was
23:00personally
23:01problematic that
23:02he's talking
23:02about
23:03Now, that's
23:05an absurd
23:06thing to
23:07say in
23:07politics.
23:09And he's
23:09made that
23:10kind of
23:10statement
23:10before also
23:11with Rahul
23:11Gandhi.
23:13Now, I
23:14don't know,
23:15for me, it
23:16was the
23:16rhetoric of
23:16this election
23:17went so bad
23:18towards the
23:18end that
23:19Khesari
23:19Lal ko
23:19aap
23:20nachania
23:20bol rahe
23:21ho,
23:21isko
23:21jo mana
23:22hai bol
23:22rahe
23:22ho,
23:23idhar se
23:23wo
23:23shadi ki
23:24baat
23:24kare
23:24hai,
23:24were the
23:24issues.
23:26Nobody really
23:27talked about
23:27anything,
23:28right?
23:28Yeah, I
23:29mean, at
23:30one level
23:30this was
23:30an election
23:31with no
23:33great issues,
23:35with no
23:36great vision
23:37being laid
23:38out by
23:38anyone.
23:39Nothing.
23:40The question
23:41mark that
23:42Rahul Gandhi
23:43put on the
23:44vote, you
23:45know, on the
23:46entire process,
23:48he should,
23:49yeah, and
23:51well, you
23:51know, and
23:52if you make
23:52those kinds of
23:53allegations, and
23:54to the extent
23:55that I have
23:56had any
23:56contact with
23:57people who,
23:58you know, are
23:59congresspeople and
24:00things like that,
24:02if you're making
24:02very serious
24:03allegations, then
24:04you have to back
24:05it up with, I
24:06mean, I think
24:07there is evidence,
24:08but even their
24:09own people will
24:10tell you that
24:10there is anecdotal
24:12evidence, but not
24:13systemic evidence,
24:15and not evidence.
24:16Not enough, and
24:18you know, I
24:18mean, I think the
24:20BJP has been
24:20successful with the
24:21media on its
24:22side, and we
24:23have not talked
24:23about the media
24:24at all, but
24:24you know,
24:25that this is
24:26a, you
24:27know, kind
24:27of loser's
24:28wine, that
24:29each time they
24:31lose, they
24:31don't look at
24:32themselves, and
24:32they basically
24:33just go around
24:34saying, that
24:34the vote
24:35has been
24:35done.
24:36And, you
24:37know, there
24:37is enough, I
24:38mean, yesterday
24:38we saw that
24:39there were
24:39people close
24:40to the MGB
24:41who are making
24:43statements in
24:44the media, saying
24:45that this time
24:46it has been an
24:47open theft of
24:48the vote.
24:48Yeah, yeah, I
24:49don't know why.
24:50Okay.
24:51So, I mean,
24:52when you raise
24:54such serious
24:55allegations, then
24:56and, you
24:57know, I'm
24:57no fan of
24:58the election
24:58commissioner, I'm
25:00really disturbed
25:02by the conduct
25:03of elections and
25:04the adding and
25:04subtracting, as
25:06far as, you
25:06know, you've
25:07got to be able
25:08to come up
25:10with something
25:11more than, you
25:14know, this kind
25:14of thing.
25:15You've got to be
25:15able to, you
25:17know, come up
25:17with evidence
25:19which can be
25:20taken to court.
25:21the idea, it
25:23is possible, in
25:23fact, we were
25:24discussing this in
25:24my class
25:26yesterday, why
25:27did Brazil get
25:30rid of
25:30Bolsonaro while
25:31many other
25:32countries are
25:33unable to do
25:33so?
25:35And one of the,
25:36you know, to get
25:37rid of other
25:38people who are
25:39seen as being
25:40authoritarian and
25:41so on.
25:41And I think one
25:42big difference
25:43there, as
25:45compared to
25:45India, is
25:46that, you
25:47know, some
25:49institutions have
25:50to retain some
25:51degree of
25:52autonomy.
25:53And in Brazil,
25:54the election
25:54commission, the
25:55judiciary, and
25:56especially the
25:57media retain a
25:59degree of
26:00autonomy.
26:01Yes, they lost
26:01some of, you
26:02know, they lost
26:02many, you
26:03know, regional
26:05courts and
26:06judges and things
26:06like that.
26:07But at the end
26:08of the day, you
26:10know, unless you
26:11have some space
26:12there, and in the
26:13Indian case, as
26:14one of my
26:14students pointed
26:15out, the
26:16spaces are not
26:18there, because
26:19if you take
26:21the complaint to
26:22the election
26:23commission, it is
26:24likely to reject
26:26your complaint
26:27completely out of
26:28hand.
26:28It will not take
26:29it seriously in
26:30the least.
26:31They may not
26:32even respond, as
26:34we know has
26:35happened with
26:36respect to
26:37complaints
26:37elsewhere.
26:39Communal
26:40rhetoric in the
26:41elections, cash
26:43transferred the
26:45week before.
26:47This should not
26:48happen in an
26:49election done
26:49quote-unquote
26:50properly.
26:51This should not
26:51happen.
26:52So that is
26:53there.
26:53In terms of
26:54taking matters to
26:55the court, in
26:57Brazil, the
26:57courts had a
26:58degree of
26:59autonomy.
27:00In India, many
27:02people would argue
27:02that the
27:04judicial path is
27:06closed to those
27:07people increasingly
27:08who are opponents
27:10of the ruling
27:11party.
27:11the third is
27:14media.
27:15And, you
27:15know, I
27:16still go back
27:17to the comment
27:17made by Adani
27:18at the time of
27:20the purchase of
27:21NDTV.
27:22And it is
27:23verbatim he
27:24had said, I
27:26am giving this
27:28as a present to
27:29my friend, Mr.
27:30Modi, that he
27:32finds that there
27:33is too much
27:34undue criticism
27:35on that channel
27:36of the prime
27:37minister.
27:37And he thinks
27:38that that should
27:39not happen.
27:40The media is
27:41there to mock
27:42the opposition.
27:44And I think it
27:45is a very
27:45peculiar condition
27:46and it is not
27:48just specific to
27:49India, that in
27:50place after place,
27:52country after
27:52country, many
27:53of them very
27:54famous for their
27:55free media and
27:56things like that.
27:58Much of the
27:58media's main
28:00preoccupation is
28:02to not question
28:03the party in
28:04power.
28:04Exactly.
28:05But mock the
28:06party that is in
28:07opposition.
28:08That is true.
28:08In fact, we
28:09asked this
28:10question from a
28:11ground reporter
28:12who was working
28:13with us, I
28:13mean, who is
28:14still working
28:15with us in
28:15Bihar.
28:17And like me, he
28:18was also like
28:19quite surprised
28:20because wherever
28:21we went and
28:21all that.
28:22So we asked
28:22about media's
28:23role.
28:24Now the
28:24question, one
28:25thing that was
28:26very interesting
28:26is how the
28:28media reported
28:29this election,
28:30right?
28:31So there was a
28:32lot of emphasis
28:33on development.
28:35Now development
28:35is not just
28:36concrete.
28:36there was a
28:38lot of stuff
28:39shown on
28:39Jangal Raj.
28:40In fact, we
28:41tried and kind
28:42of correct that
28:43narrative which
28:43had to be
28:44corrected because
28:45political violence
28:46is nothing new
28:47in Bihar.
28:47Started in
28:481947.
28:49And we had
28:50credible evidence
28:51to show that.
28:52We paid the
28:52price actually
28:53before that also
28:54in terms of
28:55looking at it.
28:56But I think
28:56you're right.
28:57The media
28:57actually also
28:59has its own
29:00narrative.
29:01I mean,
29:01somebody who's
29:02coming on
29:02Anand Singh's
29:03interview and
29:04saying that
29:04we're going to
29:05live all the
29:05interview.
29:08I mean,
29:09I think that
29:10is a very
29:11interesting,
29:12the whole
29:14treatment of
29:15Anand Singh.
29:15And in fact,
29:16the selection of
29:17Anand Singh,
29:17the fact he was
29:18released from
29:19prison,
29:20what he means
29:21to the JDU
29:22when he was
29:22sprung for
29:24campaigning in
29:25the general
29:25elections,
29:26how that is
29:28not, I mean,
29:29he was kind of
29:29made into a
29:30buffoonish,
29:32endearing person
29:33rather than a
29:35very dangerous
29:36criminal.
29:36And nobody
29:37asked him
29:37like a serious
29:38question,
29:38not used to
29:39it.
29:39People are
29:40asking him.
29:40And fully
29:41abusive in the
29:42choicest of
29:43Bihari abuses.
29:44In one of the
29:45interviews he
29:46said,
29:46my wife and
29:47used an abusive
29:48term who was
29:49elected saying
29:50that I
29:51used a very
29:53like a
29:53for the
29:55wife and
29:55that was
29:55shown.
29:56Now,
29:56where is
29:56editorial
29:56discretion in
29:57showing that
29:57to say that
29:58this is my
29:59life.
29:59It is an
30:02interview.
30:03Just do it.
30:04No, but also,
30:05I mean, yeah.
30:06I mean, so if
30:06you think about
30:07it, what was
30:08the overall
30:09media narrative
30:10that way?
30:11Bihar is a
30:12lawless place.
30:13It's a cartoonist
30:14place.
30:15It has these
30:15weird characters
30:16like Anand
30:17Singh.
30:19People, you
30:20know, will
30:20vote for
30:21Maithili because
30:22she's not even
30:23from that
30:24place except
30:25ancestrally.
30:27But, you
30:28know, she'll
30:29sing a few
30:29lines here.
30:30I'll change
30:31the name to,
30:31you know,
30:32whatever,
30:32Sita
30:33Poor.
30:33And, you
30:39know, job
30:39done.
30:40I mean, you
30:41know, the
30:41idea that
30:42you're, you
30:42know, what,
30:43you know, when
30:44she was asked,
30:45you know, what,
30:45does she have a
30:46blueprint?
30:46She said, this
30:47is my private
30:48matter.
30:49Yeah, I
30:49saw that
30:49also.
30:51So, you
30:52know, I
30:52mean, you
30:52have, I
30:55mean, did
30:55any one
30:57candidate in
30:58any constituency
30:59come across
31:01as a serious
31:02candidate who
31:03had a serious
31:04plan?
31:04And I
31:06would say
31:06that, you
31:06know, given
31:08that I don't
31:08know, you
31:09know, which
31:11side he came
31:11from and
31:13also his
31:13statements that
31:14if I win any
31:15MLAs, I
31:16would like them
31:17to join
31:17whichever party
31:20they want
31:21to, the
31:22role of
31:23Prashant Kishore
31:23is something
31:24which is
31:25really, again,
31:27very mysterious.
31:28He himself
31:29did not
31:30campaign.
31:31He raised a
31:32lot of issues
31:32that were
31:33serious issues
31:33of employment,
31:35development,
31:35governance,
31:36education,
31:39cleanliness in
31:39politics.
31:41We also
31:41saw that
31:43these were
31:43issues that
31:44were getting
31:45traction in
31:45his own
31:46rallies.
31:47Yeah.
31:47So, if
31:48anything, he
31:49should have
31:50contributed
31:51via the
31:54issues that
31:54he raised
31:55and the
31:55traction that
31:55these issues
31:56got.
31:57If anything,
31:58these should
31:58have gone
31:59in favor of
32:00the opposition
32:00who were
32:01also making
32:02similar kinds
32:03of statements
32:05and also
32:06were saying
32:06that these
32:07were promises
32:07made but
32:08promises broken
32:09by the
32:09previous
32:09government.
32:10But he
32:11comes in,
32:12he does
32:12the campaign,
32:13there are
32:14stories about
32:16massive sale
32:17of seats,
32:19of tickets,
32:19you know,
32:20for Jansuraj
32:21and then he
32:21disappears from
32:22the scene.
32:23Yeah.
32:24Yeah.
32:25So, I mean,
32:26there are
32:27interesting questions.
32:27Who will
32:28come out as,
32:29you know,
32:30the chief
32:30ministerial
32:31candidate?
32:31I mean,
32:32we remember
32:33Amit Shah
32:33saying,
32:34would he be
32:38an acceptable
32:39CM face,
32:40you know,
32:41as in when
32:42the BJP
32:42comes to
32:44collect its
32:45own pound
32:45of flesh
32:46from JDU?
32:47We don't
32:47know.
32:48I mean,
32:48you know,
32:48because it's
32:49not necessarily
32:50going to be
32:50the smoothest
32:51of sailings
32:52because
32:53Nitesh Kumar
32:54is very well
32:55aware that
32:57the vultures
32:59are circulating
32:59above his
33:01own party
33:01and that
33:03his own
33:03party is
33:04in a state
33:04of terminal
33:06decline at
33:07one level,
33:08though I think
33:08the numbers
33:09will speak
33:09differently.
33:10But, you
33:10know,
33:11second-rung
33:11leaders,
33:13the fact
33:14that, you
33:15know,
33:15his name
33:15was not
33:16projected
33:16as the
33:17CM name,
33:18that his
33:18own party
33:19stalwarts
33:20like Lallan
33:21Singh making
33:22the statement
33:23that he did
33:24saying that,
33:25yes, we are
33:25fighting the
33:26election under
33:27his leadership,
33:27but that does
33:29not mean that
33:30he will
33:30automatically
33:30be the
33:31chief
33:31minister.
33:33So, you
33:34know, he's
33:34probably going
33:35to be thinking
33:36about what's
33:38next for him.
33:40He has not
33:41yet projected
33:41his son in a
33:42way that has
33:43made him into
33:43a mass leader,
33:44but I did see
33:45that he was
33:46circulating around
33:47in many of the
33:48campaigns and so
33:49forth, and of
33:50course that would
33:50be dynasty as
33:51well.
33:52It's not going
33:53to be great,
33:54you know, very
33:54smooth sailing for
33:55them.
33:56Not at all.
33:56On the BJP's
33:59side, you know,
33:59they have
34:00waited a long
34:00time to actually
34:02have their own
34:03chief minister.
34:04Many years.
34:05Many years,
34:06decades.
34:08And so that
34:08means that,
34:09you know,
34:10someone might be
34:11parachuted from
34:11the centre.
34:13That is not
34:13unusual.
34:15A complete no
34:16name can be
34:17brought in,
34:18and we have
34:18seen that has
34:19not worked out
34:19that well for
34:20the BJP in
34:20Rajasthan as
34:21things are
34:22happening right
34:22now, and
34:23murmurs of
34:24things to
34:24happen in
34:25Madhya Pradesh
34:25also show that
34:28having a no
34:29name person
34:30become a
34:32chief minister,
34:32and remember
34:33those were
34:33states in which
34:34the BJP had
34:35won elections
34:36before.
34:36Yeah.
34:37So, you know,
34:38they've had a
34:38much bigger
34:39presence over
34:39there and so
34:40on.
34:41I also worry
34:42about the fact
34:43that wherever
34:44they have come
34:44to power,
34:45they have
34:45empowered the
34:46Bajrang Dal
34:47and very,
34:48you know,
34:49extreme Hindutva
34:50organizations.
34:52And I fear
34:53for Bihar in
34:54that respect
34:55that will
34:57Bihar see the
34:58same kinds of
34:58things, you
34:59know, right
34:59after the
35:00Uriza elections
35:01were won by
35:02the BJP.
35:03You began to
35:04see Bajrang Dal
35:05violence, you
35:06know, across
35:07the state.
35:08But if the
35:09outcome really
35:11reflects what
35:12Bihar is voted
35:12for.
35:13They are going
35:13to get it.
35:14Then they are
35:15going to get
35:16it.
35:16Then they are,
35:17you know, they
35:18will get exactly
35:19what they have
35:19voted for.
35:20And this is
35:21not to condemn
35:22them.
35:22I wish them
35:23nothing but the
35:23best.
35:25But there
35:27were risks,
35:28you know,
35:28involved in
35:29voting for
35:30the BJP in
35:31such large
35:32numbers.
35:34Then once,
35:36you know,
35:37this time they
35:38did not have
35:38full control
35:39over the
35:40levers of
35:40the local
35:41administration
35:42and so forth.
35:44Now they
35:45will have a
35:45deeper control
35:46over the
35:47levers of
35:47local
35:48administration.
35:49in state
35:51after state
35:51this has
35:52meant that
35:52local
35:53administration,
35:53local police,
35:54local IAS
35:55officers,
35:56all of these
35:56people become
35:57complacent and
35:58complicit with
35:59non-governmental
36:02organizations.
36:04And they
36:05allow, you know,
36:06I mean, you see
36:06police mitra in
36:08Haryana and
36:08those places
36:09where
36:10Bittu,
36:11Bajrangi kind
36:12of people have
36:13some kind of
36:14police
36:15dhabba on
36:16their cars.
36:17So, you
36:17know, that's
36:19that sort of
36:20thing.
36:20And let's
36:21not forget,
36:22we have a
36:22very large
36:23Muslim population
36:24and, you
36:26know, some
36:27of them might
36:27have voted
36:28for the
36:28JDU.
36:29I'm sure
36:29they did.
36:29And also
36:30many of
36:30people said
36:31that we are
36:32going to vote
36:33for the
36:33JDU only
36:35because of the
36:35fact that
36:36they always
36:37thought and
36:37Nitish Kumar to
36:38some extent
36:38kept that
36:39image secure
36:40of a socialist
36:41secular leader.
36:42So, you
36:44know, my
36:44worry is
36:45that, okay,
36:45what after
36:46Nitish now?
36:47Then what
36:47happens?
36:49He sort of
36:50held that
36:50at bay.
36:51You have
36:51to, you
36:52know, he
36:52never had
36:53an openly
36:53communal
36:54image.
36:55Not at
36:55all.
36:56Not at
36:56all.
36:57You know,
36:57he retained
36:58support among
36:59Muslims when
37:00it became
37:01unfashionable
37:02to hold
37:02iftar parties
37:03and wear
37:04the topi
37:04during etc.
37:05He continued
37:05to do so.
37:07Yes, all
37:08parties reduced.
37:08Let's not
37:09forget, all
37:10parties reduced
37:10the number of
37:11Muslim
37:12candidates.
37:12And so
37:13did he.
37:13Yeah.
37:14I mean, I
37:15cannot see
37:15that he
37:16will last
37:16himself the
37:17five years
37:17given his
37:18own visibly
37:20deteriorating
37:21health.
37:22Not at
37:22all.
37:23And the
37:23other thing
37:24I wanted
37:24to mention
37:24was that
37:25whenever I
37:25went in
37:25Bihar,
37:26there was
37:26this whole
37:26thing.
37:27And in
37:28fact, we
37:28started looking
37:28at the
37:29issue with
37:31that thing
37:31in my last
37:32issue, is
37:33the return
37:33of the
37:34upper caste,
37:35which in
37:35fact is
37:36kind of
37:38true if
37:39you look
37:39at the
37:41combination
37:43that's
37:43winning.
37:44In fact,
37:44so I
37:45saw that
37:45at a
37:45dinner,
37:46somebody
37:46said,
37:46forward
37:47cast
37:47to
37:47come
37:48in
37:48Bihar.
37:49So I
37:49don't know
37:49which way
37:50it is
37:50going,
37:51but in
37:51a way,
37:52this was
37:53That would
37:53be consistent
37:54with a
37:56kind of
37:56a revanchist
37:57as we
37:57all leftists
37:59use that
37:59word,
38:00a kind of
38:01a revanchist
38:02move in
38:03which years
38:05of subordinate
38:07caste empowerment
38:10will be
38:12reversed.
38:14We did
38:15see it will
38:16be reversed
38:16and there
38:17will be
38:17a kind
38:17of a
38:18return
38:18of
38:18some
38:19kind
38:19of
38:19combination.
38:20In terms
38:20of like,
38:21they will
38:21still wield
38:22the influence
38:22that they
38:23have always
38:23wielded.
38:25Look at
38:25the Bahubalis.
38:26I mean,
38:27where are
38:28the Bahubalis
38:30and the
38:31little
38:31people
38:32say,
38:33you
38:33are
38:34going to
38:34look at
38:34Dularchan's
38:35description
38:36and Anand Singh's
38:36description.
38:37So you
38:38know,
38:38you have
38:38a kind
38:39of a
38:39classic
38:39combination
38:40of,
38:41we are
38:42told,
38:42and we
38:42don't know
38:43yet,
38:43but we
38:43are told
38:44that Dalits
38:45voted
38:45massively
38:46for the
38:46BJP.
38:47So you
38:47know,
38:48you've
38:48got the
38:48extremely
38:49backward,
38:49you know,
38:50castes
38:50and classes.
38:52You have
38:53the most
38:54dominant
38:54of castes
38:56and then
38:58you have
38:59a combination
39:00of a
39:00range of,
39:01I mean,
39:01I don't
39:02know,
39:03I mean,
39:03I got,
39:04for example,
39:05WhatsApp
39:06messages of
39:07Kayist,
39:08Sabha,
39:08and Samaj
39:09people to
39:10the effect
39:11that this
39:11has been
39:12the lowest
39:12number of
39:13seats that
39:14Kayist have
39:14ever been
39:15offered and
39:16Kayist should
39:17teach,
39:17you know,
39:17I mean,
39:18Kayist are
39:19just going to
39:19go and vote
39:20for the BJP.
39:21I mean,
39:21that has
39:22historically been
39:22the case and
39:23you know,
39:25caste is not
39:25a non-factor
39:26and it is
39:27a factor
39:28particularly for
39:29upper castes
39:30much more so,
39:31I would say.
39:32It has always
39:33been because
39:33caste is the
39:34main way
39:36in which you
39:37have power
39:38and the main
39:38way in which
39:39you want to
39:39wield power
39:40and so on
39:41and so forth.
39:41And the main
39:43way to retain power.
39:43But again and
39:44again in
39:45Bihar,
39:45you know.
39:46Yeah,
39:47so I mean,
39:47the whole
39:47sort of,
39:48you know,
39:49samikaran of
39:50different castes
39:51that we have
39:52seen,
39:53that seems
39:54to me to,
39:56you know,
39:57come back
39:57from a previous
39:58generation.
40:00And the very
40:01poor and the
40:02subordinated
40:02castes will
40:03see empowerment
40:04through the
40:05quote-unquote
40:06freebies that
40:06they are going
40:07to get.
40:08And if the
40:09promises made
40:10actually turn
40:13out to be
40:13promises kept,
40:15then well and
40:16good, you
40:17know, we will
40:18have the sugar
40:18mills that were
40:19promised and
40:19the bridges will
40:20be reconstructed
40:22and medical
40:23hospitals will
40:24happen and
40:25there will be
40:25many new
40:26airports and
40:28there will be
40:28no crime and
40:30Bihari women
40:31will be empowered
40:32and there will
40:32be a temple
40:33in Sitamari.
40:34So, you
40:35know, in
40:35fact, I've
40:36just received a
40:36message from
40:37a gentleman
40:38yesterday from
40:39Patna.
40:40I read your
40:40article in
40:41Outlook on
40:42Chhat.
40:42Please help
40:43us get UN
40:44recognition for
40:45Chhat.
40:46He's already
40:47got no,
40:47Udiji announced
40:48it.
40:49No,
40:50we didn't
40:51get it.
40:52In fact,
40:52Bihar Museum
40:53last year
40:54they told us
40:56that they are
40:56trying to get
40:57the heritage
40:58for Chhat.
41:00This is a
41:01very peculiar
41:02request.
41:02Why don't you
41:03find, can you
41:04please send me
41:05pictures of
41:05Chhat being
41:06celebrated in
41:07Britain because
41:08that will help
41:10us make our
41:12case.
41:13So, you
41:13know,
41:13forever we
41:16thought Chhat
41:17is the
41:18festival where
41:19you don't have
41:20any gods in
41:21that sense.
41:21You have the
41:22indigenous thing
41:23which has kept
41:24it kind of like
41:25I don't know
41:25what's going to
41:26happen.
41:26It seems like
41:27everything is
41:27going to go.
41:28But I don't
41:29know if Chhat,
41:30I mean they
41:31rolled on, they
41:31tried to
41:32politicize Chhat.
41:32But, you
41:34know, if
41:35they were not
41:38going to do
41:38that, would
41:39they not have
41:40got 200
41:40seats?
41:41I mean, I
41:41don't see how
41:42the way in
41:43which they
41:43tried to
41:44take over
41:45Chhat this
41:45time around.
41:47And, you
41:47know, I
41:48mean, having a
41:48conversation with
41:49someone who
41:50has recently
41:50written a
41:51book on
41:51political
41:52consultants.
41:54And, you
41:54know, he
41:55launched that
41:56book at my
41:56university here.
41:57And one
41:59question that
41:59came from
42:00the audience
42:00was, does
42:02it matter
42:02whether or
42:04not you
42:04have a very
42:05good political
42:05consultant?
42:06How do the
42:07candidates of
42:08the BJP
42:08particularly see
42:10the outcome?
42:12Whether that
42:12has been
42:13affected by
42:13the hiring
42:16of a very
42:17sharp political
42:18consultant?
42:18And he
42:20said, very
42:20interestingly,
42:21that the BJP
42:23candidates that
42:23he interviewed,
42:24and apparently
42:24he has
42:25interviewed
42:25several,
42:26they told
42:27him that
42:28they don't
42:29think it
42:29makes a
42:30jot of a
42:31difference.
42:32So why
42:32do they
42:33do it?
42:34And that
42:34is because
42:35they don't
42:35want anything
42:36uncovered.
42:37So from
42:38the political
42:39consultant to
42:40the 10,000
42:41rupees, to
42:42the XYZ,
42:45to the
42:47communal
42:47speech,
42:48you know,
42:49so they
42:49don't,
42:50they want
42:50to cover
42:51all, all
42:52possible
42:52bases.
42:54And if
42:54you look
42:54at the
42:54kind of
42:55offer that
42:55the BJP
42:56and the
42:56JDU were
42:57making,
42:59that, and
42:59I think
42:59this has
43:00been a
43:01strategy from
43:0220 foot,
43:03and astrologers
43:04and so on,
43:05though I
43:05didn't see
43:05too many
43:05astrologers.
43:09Some of
43:09them were
43:10actually making
43:10predictions that
43:12Tejasfi was
43:13going to become
43:13chief minister.
43:14In fact, a lot
43:15of them were
43:15saying Tejasfi
43:1714-year-old
43:18banwas
43:18have to
43:19wait
43:19to
43:19wait.
43:19I don't
43:20know where.
43:2114-year-old
43:22banwas
43:23is there.
43:23Yeah, yeah,
43:24yeah.
43:25So in
43:26fact, it
43:27was, I mean,
43:29not that I
43:29believe in it,
43:30but just for
43:30whatever.
43:31I also didn't
43:31want to leave
43:32anything uncovered.
43:33Yes.
43:33Look at that
43:34also.
43:35But seems to
43:36be like,
43:36yeah.
43:37But remember,
43:38ye admi
43:39navratri mein
43:40matan khara
43:40tha, navratri
43:42mein machli khara
43:43tha, you
43:43know, bohut
43:44dikhaan ke khara
43:45tha, ramandir
43:47nahi gaya.
43:48So, you know,
43:49I mean, it was
43:50a fairly absurd
43:50kind of thing,
43:51you know, the
43:52campaign.
43:53And, you
43:55know, maybe I'm
43:56now very out of
43:57touch with my
43:58state of origin.
43:59I don't know.
44:00But I still find
44:01it very difficult
44:02to understand
44:04that the
44:05speeches and
44:06the campaign
44:07promises and
44:08the record of
44:09the coalition in
44:11government and
44:12the confusion
44:13regarding the
44:14person who
44:15would be chief
44:16minister and
44:16all of that
44:17produce the
44:18kind of a,
44:19you know,
44:19massive, you
44:20know, victory
44:21that we are
44:22seeing on our
44:23television screens
44:23at the moment.
44:24I think many
44:26PhDs will come
44:27out of this
44:28particular election.
44:29I think you'll
44:29have a lot of
44:29work on your
44:30hat.
44:31But the other
44:31thing was a lot
44:32of people last
44:32time said this
44:33will be a fight
44:34between the
44:34BJP and the
44:35RGD.
44:35Seems like the
44:37fight is now
44:38going to be
44:39between the
44:39BJP and the
44:40JT.
44:41Yes, I think
44:41so too.
44:42Massive victories
44:43have their own,
44:44you know, create
44:45their own dilemmas
44:46and their own
44:47problems.
44:48And it will be
44:49interesting to see
44:50which problems
44:51and dilemmas
44:52emerge.
44:53They just
44:54need to talk
44:54so much about
44:55marriage.
44:56Yeah, whether
44:57it's a love
44:58marriage, whether
44:59it's a marriage
44:59of convenience,
45:00whether it is a
45:02gunshot wedding
45:05as we used to
45:05have in Bihar.
45:07So, the
45:09khawai ki shadi,
45:10all of those
45:10kinds of things,
45:11you know.
45:12It's very
45:13interesting to talk
45:13to you as
45:14always.
45:15Thank you so
45:16much.
Recommended
43:31
|
Up next
25:52
Be the first to comment