Is having a boyfriend embarrassing—or are modern relationships just harder to define?
In the first episode of Outlook’s new podcast series 'Unhinged', Editor Chinki Sinha and Outlook's reporters come together to unpack a viral question sparked by a British Vogue article: Is having a boyfriend embarrassing now? What begins as an internet trend opens up a larger conversation about dating culture, commitment, emotional labour, and why relationships today often feel fraught with anxiety, shame, and ambiguity.
From “aura points” and soft launches to commitment phobia, ghosting, and post-breakup embarrassment, the panel reflects on how social media, gender roles, and shifting expectations have reshaped intimacy.
Blending humour, pop culture references, and lived experience, this episode explores what it means to love, unlove, and stay unhinged in 2025.
#Unhinged #Podcast #Relationship
About Outlook Magazine
Outlook Magazine brings sharp, independent journalism to the conversations shaping India and the world. From politics and culture to society, media, and ideas, Outlook goes beyond headlines to unpack context, challenge power, and question dominant narratives.
On this channel, Outlook Magazine Explains breaking news, emerging debates, and cultural shifts through opinion-led explainers, reported analysis, and thoughtful storytelling. Our videos cut through noise and misinformation to examine how language, ideology, and politics shape everyday life—online and offline.
Subscribe to Outlook Magazine for credible journalism, critical perspectives, and conversations that matter.
#OutlookMagazine #DeepDiveWithOutlook #OutlookExplains #OutlookOpinion #OutlookIndia #Outlook #IndiaNews
In the first episode of Outlook’s new podcast series 'Unhinged', Editor Chinki Sinha and Outlook's reporters come together to unpack a viral question sparked by a British Vogue article: Is having a boyfriend embarrassing now? What begins as an internet trend opens up a larger conversation about dating culture, commitment, emotional labour, and why relationships today often feel fraught with anxiety, shame, and ambiguity.
From “aura points” and soft launches to commitment phobia, ghosting, and post-breakup embarrassment, the panel reflects on how social media, gender roles, and shifting expectations have reshaped intimacy.
Blending humour, pop culture references, and lived experience, this episode explores what it means to love, unlove, and stay unhinged in 2025.
#Unhinged #Podcast #Relationship
About Outlook Magazine
Outlook Magazine brings sharp, independent journalism to the conversations shaping India and the world. From politics and culture to society, media, and ideas, Outlook goes beyond headlines to unpack context, challenge power, and question dominant narratives.
On this channel, Outlook Magazine Explains breaking news, emerging debates, and cultural shifts through opinion-led explainers, reported analysis, and thoughtful storytelling. Our videos cut through noise and misinformation to examine how language, ideology, and politics shape everyday life—online and offline.
Subscribe to Outlook Magazine for credible journalism, critical perspectives, and conversations that matter.
#OutlookMagazine #DeepDiveWithOutlook #OutlookExplains #OutlookOpinion #OutlookIndia #Outlook #IndiaNews
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FunTranscript
00:00:00So is having a boyfriend embarrassing or really embarrassing? Relationships seems to be like a
00:00:18major cause of worry for a lot of people. So at Outlook, we are starting this new podcast series
00:00:26called Unhinged, where we want to discuss what people are feeling and also what it is to love and
00:00:34unlove. And as we go into 2026, we have with us Outlook editor Chinki Sinha and Outlook reporters.
00:00:43And I'm hoping that everyone has some life outside chasing stories. So we'll just have a
00:00:49discussion about something that we have been talking in the office for a couple of weeks,
00:00:54which is the Vogue British article is having a boyfriend embarrassing now by Shantir Joseph.
00:01:02And I thought like let us record ourselves and discuss it because it started as a small
00:01:09internet trend and it has quickly snowballed into this larger discussion about dating trends and
00:01:16the changes that people are feeling in their romantic life and partners. So yeah, welcome
00:01:22to Unhinged. And yeah, so I'll start asking something. Okay, so this is Ashlyn Matthews. She's senior
00:01:34associate editor. This is Agni Teb Bondofadhyay. And he has recently joined Outlook again. So, okay, I'll start with the
00:01:48women on the table first. Sorry, Agni Deh. Of course. But one of the points in the article was that a lot of women who are in position of power or are doing well,
00:02:00well, quote unquote, well in their careers, feel that having a partner is like losing aura points or like their personality feels to be, quote unquote,
00:02:12beaged or toned down. So I'll start with both of you, like your editor, your senior associate editor. Do you somewhere feel that, you know, if you have a partner or you have a man in your life that you need to introduce in your social circle?
00:02:28in your social circle? Does it make you lose your aura points? Completely. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I assume that my aura has gone. Okay. Because I think most of the men
00:02:42that we know and I've been single, things like forever. It's embarrassing to the point where, you know, these men, I don't know what they want. It's like, you know, they want us to understand them. They want so many things. They blame you for all kinds of things. You know, it's quite weird. So you don't want to like go and over explain. And the other thing is, you know, they talk about how women don't understand them. I'm not sure what we are supposed to understand. So there, I think, you know, they talk about how women don't understand them.
00:03:08understand them. I'm not sure what we are supposed to understand. So there, I think, they're getting all this inheritance from the bottom of that. And also, why are we supposed to understand them? Like what is- Yeah, who's going to understand me?
00:03:19Fair. Exactly. Right. So, do you feel this way?
00:03:23I don't completely agree with that. I agree that we become a toned down version of ourselves. But that is life in general, right? When you have a busy, if you have a busy social circle, or if you have children, or even if you have parents, you have to take care of, the operative word we've taken care of, you tone down yourself anyway, right? Because you have other things in your social, you can't really focus on your social circle.
00:03:49But having a partner, shouldn't it be like an add-on or like be uplifting? Like you are going through like a toned down life already and like having someone should feel like you, okay, you're, you know, like it's a cherry on the cake, right? No? No, we shouldn't look at partners as a cherry on the cake. That makes, shouldn't we be the focus point and not the cherry? So, the cake is the more important part.
00:04:13But cherry is small. Or do you, but do you feel like cherry overpowers the cake? Yes, it does. It does. Everyone talks about the cherry on the cake. Why should we talk about the cherry on the cake? It is our lives that are put in front. And if we say that, you know, having a partner is embarrassing or not embarrassing or a point is going down. It is us giving too much importance to a man who has just come into our lives.
00:04:36We should. So, actually that is not the thing here as we talked about. See, you have to understand, I think, where all this is coming from and why have women gotten to this point, right?
00:04:50They've been slowly coming to this point and thank God somebody said it, right? So, it's not about, I mean, I'm not saying that we need to discuss patriarchy in general, right? We're not here to discuss that. We're here to discuss something that has led to this point.
00:05:08So, the point is Rami, you should talk. You are young. We are like in our forties. But before I get to myself, I want to talk to Agnidev who's cherry on the cake on someone else's life right now.
00:05:21Or maybe the cake. Yeah. And maybe she's the cherry. I don't know. But how do you feel about it? Like having read the article, how do you feel about it since you are a partnered person, right? You have a girlfriend.
00:05:35Yeah, I think the first response that I had after reading the article was yes, it's embarrassing. I am embarrassing. And I come to this conclusion because it's been a long process to come to this because it wasn't easy to take criticism at one point for men. And it is still not for a lot of men out there.
00:05:58So, I think somewhere down the line, being with a person also makes it easier for you to understand that you laugh out on so many things. The nuances which make you a person, I think men haven't been able to get on the table yet.
00:06:11It's a long way to go. I do not want to speak for anybody else. But yes, the first response if you asked me was yes, it's embarrassing. I know I am embarrassing. So, if you are talking about the cake and the cherry, I am probably the savoury dish out there on the table which is rotting away.
00:06:27which is rotting away. So, yeah, I don't think I should be a part of that entire thing. It is, I shouldn't be an add-on. And if that cake feels that yes, this person can or this dish can be beside me, I will.
00:06:40But I cannot force myself on it. Because even as Ashlyn mentioned, the cherry takes the attention. And that has been this way for a long time. Because aesthetically speaking, it's a red spot on the cake. So, why don't we just look at the cake?
00:06:52Yeah. Let's hear what the cake has to say. Yeah. Right. So, it's on the table. If the cake just wants to be on the table, let's just have the table. And the cake.
00:06:59And the cake. I want to say, can you go with this cherry and cake? Yeah. Yeah. I think since we are dragging the matter. Yeah, we are dragging the matter. Come on. No cherry. No cherry. No cherry and the cake now. We are dragging the matter.
00:07:11It also feels like a euphemism for other people. Yes, exactly. Never doing cherry and cake. But it's also about you. No, you talk about yourself. You are done. Okay. So, I think Chinky mentioned that how we got to this point where finally someone is, you know, saying this out loud.
00:07:27I feel like since some time now, like women and like people I know in my circle have been feeling this coming, you know, about like, is having a boyfriend embarrassing? Yeah. I feel.
00:07:46I'm excited. Yeah, because I don't think I would really be embarrassed of having a boyfriend. I've been single for far too long. So, maybe it's a reaction to that. But I'm not sure.
00:07:56I, like it depends also on the man, right? If you have chosen a decent enough man, I shouldn't feel embarrassed. Yes. To introduce him. But I should not flaunt him.
00:08:07I agree with that point. Yeah. Flaunting is not required. For instance, like, you know, when you come to embarrassing situations, right? Like this whole thing of having a boyfriend is embarrassing.
00:08:17Firstly, there's one thing that we discussed. It's like, where are these men? You know, the decent men. Yeah. Seems like some unicorn. Yes.
00:08:26Kind of situation where, you know, it's a mythical creature. Yeah, I agree. So, decent men. Yeah. Now, you say that embarrassing. Now, if you find somebody and there are, so I think it's far more fun to discuss why that embarrassing, right? So, you know, there are all these, you don't want to feel like a loser. Yeah. Because I don't know.
00:08:45I don't know. This guy, you know, you go somewhere in your circle. And he says something like, some weird stuff.
00:08:54Something problematic, like. Maybe problematic according to me, but then my circle would also find it problematic, right? Yes. Yeah.
00:09:00So, then you'll see, oh my God, you are with this person. Yeah. Things like that. Well, I had a few experiences. I was talking to this friend of mine yesterday night. And I'm like, you're a commitment-phobic person. And he's like, no, no, no. But, you know, I've had these long-term experiences.
00:09:03And I don't, I think you don't think like that. You had these experiences where you thought that you were, you never waited for a bus. You're always changing it. New adventures. But that's him.
00:09:12Mm-hmm. So, similarly, I wouldn't think that I am commitment-phobic. But maybe I am. Takes one to spot another. But then commitment-phobia is also coming from a space where you're not finding, see, firstly, we have all these perceptions like, what is decent, right? Yeah.
00:09:25Who is decent? Yeah. Who is decent? Yeah. Who fits in? Who doesn't fit in? Absolutely. You know, then you have this, the other thing about the opposite of aura is shame. Now, whether I will have shame, I don't know if the guy is going to disappear tomorrow. This is another problem. You know, there are all these terms and we did an issue. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:54Maybe gaslighting, breadcrumbing, monkey branching, all kinds of things are happening. Monkey branching. Monkey branching are like, so basically, if you have somebody who's kind of toxic, abusive, whatever, and their friends kind of keep justifying them. They are, no, no, that is, monkey branching is basically, you have, so you are in a relationship with somebody and then you're also giving feelings to other people. That's monkey branching. And the other term for the friend, what is it? Friends with benefits? No.
00:10:24Hosting. No, no, no, no. Friends who defend. Enablers. Enablers is a sophisticated term. There's a term something with monkey company, but anyways, if I remember it, I'll tell you. But see, one of those things. And the other thing is, what we are going through is also hetero fatalism. You know, heterosexual couples, let's say, right? Yeah.
00:10:54You know, heterosexual couples, let's say, right? Yeah. And he kind of consciously chooses people who don't have a photo because more intriguing, this unknown, you know, which Agni Dev can talk more about, the appeal of the unknown, right?
00:11:14And this adventure seeking. So, firstly, there are a lot of these political things also happening, you know, you have aspiration, you have capitalism, you have options, you have abundance, right?
00:11:23Yeah. Which is difficult to deal with in terms of when women have come of age, right? We all, so there was one interesting point where I was watching a video and this therapist said that, why are you not able to get over a man? What did this man give you?
00:11:38Think about it. Except if you take away sex, then there's nothing else. Everything else, you have got 10,000 other people. At best, you have Instagram people talking about everything else, like astrology, right? So, think about it.
00:11:54So, I feel like, like, one of the reasons why having a boyfriend is also embarrassing is because, like, suppose you, like, at least with people I know, if you post something about, like, suppose you start dating,
00:12:07you start dating someone and then you post a story or you post some pictures with them or whatever and then tomorrow they host you or they just leave, right?
00:12:16And then that, like, that becomes, like, an embarrassing situation and not only that. Then you can always archive it.
00:12:23Yes, yes, yes. But I know people who will go and be like, aray, usne saari photos delete kharvi. Yes, yes. Like, people do it.
00:12:31Do that.
00:12:32So, that's why, like, this whole soft launch has also become a thing. A big problem. Yes. And also, I feel like more than, like, when you ask me, like, do you think having a boyfriend is embarrassing? I have experienced, like, post-breakup embarrassment.
00:12:46I don't know about you guys, but, like, suppose you... What do you know? I'm telling you, while in it, embarrassment, after it, even more embarrassment. Yes.
00:12:56Like, what the hell was I thinking? It's like all your friends will come to you and be like, gee, what did you see? Yeah, yeah.
00:13:04Like... That our friends will say English. No, but they don't say it while you are, like, in a relationship with them. No, no, no. My friends said that also. Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:13My friends were not saying. The one time that I was kind of dating, but I didn't want to call it dating was because I was, I didn't even want to call it dating. It was, I had started, I won't even say see, met someone trying to figure we did go on dates.
00:13:30But I didn't want to call it a dating sign because I was not sure of the guy. So, giving that term dating meant that I may have to eventually say he could be a boyfriend.
00:13:42But I didn't want to reach you. So, why? But we have so much plethora of words right now. Like, we have like, if you're dating, are you just seeing each other? Are you exclusive? At least...
00:13:51Are you having dinner? Yeah. No. Together. No, that is a date. That is...
00:13:57But I think when it comes to men, I have observed that they are very afraid of terminologies. Oh, terminologies. Yes.
00:14:08Yes. And what Chingi was just talking about, commitment. I think it's a very rampant factor here across cities that men kind of justify their commitment phobia.
00:14:20Yeah. Like, why is that? Why do you think is that? Like, you are a man. Yeah. You have friends, I hope, who are male and all kinds but why?
00:14:28Is it because they think they are entitled to have options? Yeah, I think there is an entitlement which comes into the entire thing.
00:14:34So, then in that case what? Entitled to what? Yeah, this entitlement is historic. I'm so sorry if I cut you off. No, but this entitlement has been happening over a long time.
00:14:42Long time. I think. But then what? Then what Chingi said makes sense, no? Yeah. If men are doing this anyway, then the married women should be on the apps because then it gives them more options.
00:14:52I am surely supportive of the fact that they should be on the apps because men want their independence. So, why should women have their independence?
00:14:59So, it has leveled the playing ground. Logistical issues that is at the point. But it has then leveled the playing ground, right? It means that what men have always had access to because they are out and about.
00:15:10Women now have a kind of access, at least urban women. And rural women in different ways. Yeah, completely.
00:15:18In different ways, maybe not through the apps but in different ways. So, maybe it is not about.
00:15:23No, my one question is the one thing that Aghi Dev said and maybe you can mention your Vicky Kristina Bar-seborna situation.
00:15:29What? What?
00:15:31That he dreamt of like that.
00:15:33No, it is not being specific.
00:15:35And then kind of understood that it is maybe not that cool.
00:15:38To do that.
00:15:39Yeah.
00:15:40What if it is men and independence? I mean, who is going to take away their independence? I mean, the men are also busy.
00:15:45Yeah.
00:15:46Yeah. Oh my god.
00:15:47I think men are-
00:15:48Like people telling you he is just very busy with work. What are you so busy?
00:15:52Exactly.
00:15:53Yeah. What are you? I mean, we are also, we are doing articles and we are in magazines.
00:15:57Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:58People are working in like news organizations and they are still able to somehow find these nonchalant men.
00:16:05Nonchalant men.
00:16:06Yeah.
00:16:07Only.
00:16:08Yeah.
00:16:09Only.
00:16:10And then they will tell you.
00:16:11Who are really busy.
00:16:12Yes.
00:16:13And it's not like they are doing something.
00:16:14There are all kinds of issues to be like, solved.
00:16:16And they are going to solve it.
00:16:18Yeah.
00:16:19They add to the problems.
00:16:20Like they just add to the problems.
00:16:22Yeah.
00:16:23Tell us about your Vicky Kristina Bar-seborna.
00:16:24Yeah.
00:16:25I think we were just having a conversation this morning and a very important thing is-
00:16:29Because we were in men's participation.
00:16:31Yeah.
00:16:32Because personally speaking, I was educated in an all boys institution.
00:16:36And we were told to look at few things within the lines that were prescribed.
00:16:41Right.
00:16:42And we were asked to look at our female friends, the women out there as a distraction or a sexual rival.
00:16:49We were never open to the fact that they could just be friends.
00:16:53We could just talk.
00:16:54We could just interact.
00:16:55And that contributed because I spent 12 years of my life every day, 10 hours of my days spending with men around me.
00:17:03And on the other hand, I'm not talking about a phenomenon per se, but I have grown up in a very matriarchal household.
00:17:10Right.
00:17:11And so this was kind of conflicting because, you know, I think after 25 years of my life, I realized that I've learned more from all the women around me and whatever I am as a person right now is defined by the women around me.
00:17:24Because I think there is some limit to the kind of knowledge and the entitlement which we were talking about that comes into when we are talking, when we are speaking with men.
00:17:32You see, there's something problematic which creeps into the conversation every time.
00:17:35And there's no accountability.
00:17:37Yes.
00:17:38And this accountability I think is very important. The conversation that we were having this morning that I think it was in class 11 when I first saw Vicky Christian of Barcelona by Woody Allen.
00:17:48And the entire lure of being somebody like Javier Barden. Like he just walks into the table and interrupts the conversation between two women out there and you're coming with me.
00:17:59So that was like, okay, this is happening. So how do I, what's happening here? So and it didn't have-
00:18:07Can I myself just go and walk up to a table? Were you asking that?
00:18:11No, the thing is, the lure was there of the unknown. Because there are strictures that have always defined domestic life. Right.
00:18:19And growing up in traditional households, those lines are very strict. Those lines are very solid.
00:18:23So once you see something of that sort, once you get the exposure to those things, you feel like, maybe I just want to be Javier Barden. Right.
00:18:32And so that was happening. Yeah, be the player. Yeah, the player. The P-L-A-Y-A. So that player thing was happening for a long time.
00:18:40And I'll be very honest with you. Once I got into this relationship and I had women around me where we were interacting on things which were very direnal.
00:18:50Those are very common things that we were talking about. I saw that sensibility or being the basic empathy that you need from a person is missing in all the men around.
00:18:59Not saying that every man around me is flawed. Right. I've seen, I've grown up with, I've seen my father. He's a very empathetic man.
00:19:05But those nuanced problems which come in, which creep in, are often overlooked. And once you had the women around me, that's when I realised that Vicky Cristina Barcelona might just be a portrayal of something.
00:19:15That is not what I aspire to be. Because there are, I need to perceive everything around me as a human being first. With empathy what's happening, whatever is happening around me.
00:19:26So it took me some time to unlearn that. To be away from that masculine definition of a Javier Bardem walking into it. And earlier when I used to look at Javier Bardem I used to feel that this man is so attractive.
00:19:37But I was embarrassed, what if this is a very homosexual thing to do. Why am I, why am I looking at Javier Bardem and being like this is a very handsome man.
00:19:44He's more attractive in No Country Without. Of course, of course. But then I realised that doesn't. Even in Dune. Dune too like.
00:19:52He's a very, very handsome man. He's an attractive man. He's always politically correct. Yes. And he's been very vocal.
00:19:59But yeah, shifting away from Javier Bardem. The thing is, when I looked at Javier Bardem, I was like this person is very handsome. He's very attractive.
00:20:06But I used to feel the shame that, what, why am I having such an attraction towards a man. But then I realised at a later point, I can call a man handsome.
00:20:14And that doesn't necessarily threaten my sexuality as well. That doesn't threaten my masculinity as well. So, that's the kind of unlearning that I've, I think I took on.
00:20:23And I'm, I won't say I'm proud of the fact. I'm still in the process. It may take another, there are flaws here and there.
00:20:28I want to go back to the point you were saying about sexual rival. What do you mean?
00:20:33Yeah. Yeah. I also wanted to ask. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I'll tell you something. There was this very interesting, very, very, this is a blunt thing which happened around the boys locker room conversation.
00:20:43That was trending on social media. Yeah. And so, when boys come together, I think it's very interesting to mention another piece which had come on Vogue a few days ago.
00:20:54That, I think straight men, the piece was that straight men love their straight male friends more.
00:21:00Yeah, they do. They are more expressive around their straight friends. They are, they adore, they only adore men and they just paternalise the women.
00:21:10Always. Absolutely. What do you mean by paternalise the women? See, kind of, they want to be a paternal figure to kind of take care of, to kind of tell them.
00:21:20But isn't that maternal? Daddy, daddy complex. Yes. That kind of thing. It is not that you adore or you look up to the woman in your life. That is always placed, that's always for men.
00:21:31You like male singers, you like male politicians, you like everything male. There are women politicians in English. Fair, yeah.
00:21:38So, that is another problem. See, that's a constant, that is because of how the society is inspired. Yeah. But even then, there are good women singers. There are a few good women politicians. But for men, it is never that. If you look at the list, the people they adore and they revere, it's always men.
00:21:53So, that kind of reverence is kept only for men and never for women. So, then you would be embarrassed to have a man like that, no? Who is only worshipping all these.
00:22:02But most men are like that. Most men like to hang out with straight male friends. Yeah. And I think very, very interestingly, this can be looked at in two ways.
00:22:13It is that yes, there is a kind of comfort that they have with hugging your male friend in public but not hugging your girlfriend in public. They would feel why are we doing this in front of people.
00:22:22Yeah. That's there but on the other end, is it also the fact that this boys, all boys circles are enabling things which their female partner or female friends will.
00:22:32Completely, yes. I have people who are, I was part of it because I mostly have men friends. And they are all talking about this guy who kind of mistreated the woman or the woman
00:22:43really made the life, more so like women made life really hell for this person. That's why they are separating and you know, things like that.
00:22:50This is like seems like you know, one-sided situation because you know, you're a reporter, you want to take two sides but this is something that I found in most men when they talk about women is that or maybe other people's relationship that you know, the woman was a bit much.
00:23:06This is too much. This is too much. This is an interesting concept that you know, they also think that you are too much. Now, maybe we are too much.
00:23:13Yes. No, I literally have had a friend whose boyfriend actually told her that you know, like you're always outshining me and I feel intimidated by the fact and I literally when this person told me this, I was like, are you serious? Please leave him right now. Like what is with this?
00:23:35With this insecurity of you know, and wanting to tone down. Men are threatened very easily. Very easily.
00:23:40Yeah. And the emotional thing of up keeping men also falls on us. So, we know they should not feel it.
00:23:45Yeah. So, I know this one was lonely. This one was this. I mean like all these things that come with a man. Maybe he didn't have a good childhood.
00:23:56Oh my god. I mean, not like I was Cinderella in my childhood. Or Cinderella maybe Laura. Snow White. Snow White also did an evil mother. Sorry. Someone else. No Disney.
00:24:11Yeah. Or maybe like I was having everything served. I mean I also had issues. Why shouldn't we all had issues? Yeah. Yeah. But you have to understand men first. That is a given. But we grew up in an Indian household. Yeah. So, we are going to have trouble. Yeah.
00:24:23Yeah. Indian household otherwise also. Yeah. It's very traditionalist conservation. But it seems like the woman comes and the primary job is to understand the man because you are lonely. Yeah. Yes.
00:24:32Now, you don't figure in. Your loneliness goes out of the window. Yeah. Yeah. And also like speaking of loneliness. This another social media trend. Yes. Which took I don't know why it was trending. But it is the male loneliness epidemic.
00:24:47Where people are talking about men are so lonely. Well, I personally think that they are lonely because of the consequences. Because they don't want a partner. They want you know. They want control over women. A lot of it you know.
00:25:01Like even if we don't. How do I say. That's why you don't want to say in front of everybody that I have a man who is controlling and then it also shows you in a poor life that I have accepted all this control. Yeah. And also like I don't know how many times this has happened when like including you like when you are in a relationship you don't share everything with your friends. And then later on like if they did something wrong or something like treated you poorly or whatever.
00:25:28And then later on you like oh you know this this happened. And also this this this happened. So like you are already like is this. Has this not happened?
00:25:35But I feel like that's also. We should also be aware of it in the sense that if we see signs that okay the man is not treating us well. We should be empowered and have strength within us to get out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But many of us don't. For circumstances. For life. Yeah. And also like growing up in an Indian household. A lot of times. Of course.
00:25:55A lot of times. Like women are raised to be you know you have to adjust. You have to cater to everyone. Be tolerant. Be tolerant. Yeah. Like have patience. Otherwise you know the other thing that she mentions in that article. If you don't become tolerant of all kinds of ways then you'll end up as a spinster with like some 10,000 cats.
00:26:13Yeah. Now I in fact thought of getting cats. But the thing is I mean I travel. Working to take care of cats. Yeah. I get it but you know. But there is no such stereotype which exists for men. Like it's not like men become spinster and they must have squirrels. Yeah. Why is it? Yeah. Like why is it?
00:26:31Because now it is not embarrassing. Yeah. To be single and have a few cats. No. No. I'm not. I'm just saying. Yes. That is why we're having this discussion. Yeah. Because the trend is shifting. But that is true. Men don't have such things because there are so many. Yeah.
00:26:43But like even for the longest time growing up I don't know why like everyone would reverberate Salman Khan and his singlehood and be like yo he's such a free man. I liked him. Yeah. Me too. Like while growing up I was like yo why is everyone hyping. Yes. Now I'm a Shah Rukh fan like a big one. Yes. All this Shah. Yeah. No but growing up like I was like why no it's the fact that his him being single and having the options open. His bad boy image. Yeah. The bad boy image.
00:27:12I feel like everyone talked about it a lot. It was not him as an actor like. The player. Yeah. Yes. The player.
00:27:19But maybe women also. Is it what I feel. Maybe women also had this thing that oh we could also be players but this society did not create. No. Is it because we thought that if we could change the bad boy image. Oh my god. Yeah. We were always taking on projects. No. Yeah.
00:27:34But we should. I mean like all kinds of projects. Like I am a project. Who will take care of me? Fair. Fair action. Yes.
00:27:41Yes. Yeah exactly. Yeah. But there are people out there. Yeah because they think they will be the woman or the person to change that kind of behavior. Yeah. It never happens.
00:27:50Well how can we change someone's behavior? Exactly. No no because women are supposed to think that it will change our love. Oh god.
00:27:59Women as rehab centers. I think a lot of men still believe that the men won't come out in the open and accept it. That's the problem. But they are looking forward to it and at the end of the day they are contradicted by it as well. So they want the woman to take care of you. And at the end of the day when it's too much it's like you're being too much. So I think contradictions define. As a man I say that contradiction defines men at this point.
00:28:21And there was that film no. That Dharmendra and these two women, Vahita Raman and he goes to this mental asylum. Yeah. And then Vahita Raman falls in love. She is a nurse over there. Yeah.
00:28:30And when he gets all right he leaves another woman. Yeah. And then she goes and checks into the mental asylum. Yes. Rehab. Rehab.
00:28:36See I think yeah it's. Yeah. You pick somebody and you treat them then you go in rehab. Yeah. Yeah. For real. So let's. I spend like lots of money on therapy. Like I once asked a guy to reimburse me for my 10 sessions of therapy. And then did he? I mean it's a joke. But did he offer? He said yeah yeah of course you send me a cheque or whatever I'll reimburse. Wow. I then changed my therapist.
00:28:59Damage costs. Why? Because you see it's an added money problem you know. Yeah. Of course. It is. It is. Yeah. One therapy to another therapy to third therapy. Yeah. And you seem to be having every other issue but the other person seems to be having no issues at all. So I'm like are there Debbie Gods or like. Yeah. Like. Maybe now I feel that they are from some other planet only altogether. No let's not do that so much. Yeah. No bad planet. What's a bad planet? This is the only thing. Pluto? Why? Pluto doesn't exist. Pluto doesn't exist.
00:29:29Yeah. It's a bad planet. Yeah. I want to go back to what you were saying about the male loneliness part. Yeah. But I feel like that is because men refuse to grow up. Yes. Absolutely. They want to remain children. Yeah. They don't want to accept the responsibilities of their own action. Yeah. Yeah. And also the rise of people like the right wing. Too much of right wing. Like that guy Andrew. Tate. Yes. Yeah.
00:29:59So these kind of ideologies then are glorified. Yes. So then men think it is the problem. Yeah. Imagine you like a man like that and then he becomes this then how do we think of introducing him? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So it is embarrassing. It is yeah. But also I feel that article did not actually say we should not have partners. It is it is that we have to be careful. No it's just. No. You're not saying that we should not have partners. Please go ahead and have partners. Yeah. But we're saying that is it embarrassing. Yeah. To large extent it is because you know you're finding all kind of
00:30:29engaged people out there. You guys are on dating apps right? Yeah. Maybe you are there. What do you find? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Like I have not been on dates in so long. Do you have this habit of like I don't know you but like of installing and then uninstalling and then reinstalling and then uninstalling and then uninstalling. No I just don't. No I find that too tedious. I did that for some time and then I was like no. You have to write your profile again. That is too much work. No.
00:30:59I just don't open it for months. Okay. Okay. I just don't open it. Like you just forget about it. So it exists there. Then you have to just reel off. That is so true. Even to make a profile it takes so much effort. Yeah. Like why do I have to tell like okay like tell me a little bit about yourself. I don't wanna. Yeah. Why I don't know what to write. But also I feel the apps the people who come on the apps I feel like the it's only the substandard men who come on. Honestly. I feel. I guess yeah that's right. Like the single women there are much
00:31:29better than the quality of the men. I mean my friends are complaining that there is nothing. That could be true also. Yeah. That could be true also. But I have noticed a different kind of genre of men maybe. Which is. Yeah. Which is like they're sweet till a point and then. Yeah. Yeah. It's called love bobbing. Oh my god. Yes. And then they like they're sweet till they want to meet you. Like they are like they're just you know what I mean. Yes. Like. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I have like.
00:31:59They just disappear in some black hole. Yes. Yes. Yes. After they meet you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you want to go in the black hole with them.
00:32:05No. No. No. No. I am like. Yeah. Because you get attention till you meet. And then after you meet. It seems like they want to meet you again. And they send those follow up messages also. And then it's gone. Yeah. Then you're like ah. Was it ever there? Yeah. Where did it go? So then you also just don't respond. Yeah. So it becomes like.
00:32:28Yeah. Till they meet you. Yes. And after they meet you also they will send the right responses. But even. Even before. Even before.
00:32:36All of them have had some training session where they know exactly how to. Yes. Like sweet talk. Why are men so emotionally unavailable? Rani and I have discussed this many times. Emotionally unavailable. So like on one of the dating apps. This one guy was super sweet.
00:32:56Like. Like till the point where like he saw one of my pictures on my profile. And it was from like a gallery. And he said oh I used to work in this gallery. And then he said oh this is the artist. This is the artwork. And this is the cause like behind you. So just to kind of. Impress me or whatever. And then he also told me. That he like. Because when he was working at the gallery. He had seen me. Yeah. At the gallery at that time.
00:33:26Which was all true. And it was right. That I was actually there. Stalker vibes. Right. And like the fact that he remembered. I was that time. I was just like. Wow.
00:33:33Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like wow. Why didn't he hit on you there? Yeah. I asked him the same thing. Like you could have come and said hi. And then he's like. You were with other people.
00:33:44Which also held true. Like I was with other people. Yeah. In fact I had gone for some outlook. Reporting. So I was. So I was. I was.
00:33:53I was. No. No. No. No. No. Like but. And then. He also said that. He. I was also in the workspace. That is his workspace. Right. Yeah. And I was also working. So I was like. Yeah. I did not. But like.
00:34:06I remembered you. So I was like. Okay then. Cute. And then he was like. I think we are on the same page. I said. Okay fine. And then. Like he was like. Oh let's meet up. I said sure. And I like to. Meet people outside. Oh definitely. Like my place. So that. They don't get any wrong impressions. Like for coffee or maybe tea. Yeah. Before dinner. So that. There's no expectation of anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then. No. And then what happened was. This guy was.
00:34:36Super sweet. I was like. I was also like. Oh wow. So nice. And then he was like. Yeah. Yeah. We are on the same page. I was like. Cool. Cool. And then. And then he says. So you can order. Like prawn or chicken. I'll come with some wine. He has not even asked me for my number yet. We are still on the dating app. Yeah. Talking. Like. Why. Like you're not even asking. Why is the expectation that he will come to your house. Yeah. He's directly like. You order. I'll come. I'll cook for you. But you. I'll just appear. Yeah. I'll just appear. Yeah. I'll just appear.
00:35:06I don't even ask. Entitlement. Yeah. I'll put a fact that the first. I hope I wasn't that way. I did not show it. No. I mean I'm saying. Yeah. Why? Like what is.
00:35:20I think they're doing some charity. Yeah. And then. You said bye. Yes of course. Because I'm not charity. I'm not going to. I just unmatched. I was. I just unmatched.
00:35:31directly I don't see the point of like going back and forth like you are set your intentions are
00:35:37clearly set and they are they don't match with mine so bye-bye swipe right you're wrong sorry
00:35:44yeah yeah so that's why we're going back to the article embarrassing so which is why imagine if
00:35:52you met and then this is the behaviour absolutely oh my god yes I feel like we should not discuss
00:36:00so much also because it's her life I'm just saying that this is an example of an embarrassment
00:36:06it is you know discuss the case yeah but it is an embarrassment I don't want to be like you know
00:36:13there getting ready at the wedding some other person comes out with like whatever yeah it's not okay
00:36:17and also the worst part is this is a woman who is in the Indian national cricket team just won the
00:36:25world cup and I mean for many it doesn't matter yeah but I don't want to comment on what he does
00:36:31but I know him as the sibling of someone popular I don't even know what he does right but this is a
00:36:38woman who has like her career set her goal set everything is set and yet somehow he creates this
00:36:45ruckus and situation where she is the one who has to face the brunt right because there are online
00:36:51groups that are have come out in support of him yeah that is his right to do it she was not attentive
00:36:58and I am like yeah there are men especially going on social media don't talk about how he might have
00:37:07done it because Smriti being the popular the fame person that she is was not being able to cater to
00:37:14him and that's the reason it gives him the right to get what he wants to do this is the kind of
00:37:19entitlement men on social media have not just on social media everyone else yeah and they're not
00:37:25yeah and they're not that they're not even shamed to to put it out on social media that yes I'm
00:37:31supporting the man I'm supporting cheating just because this man needed care he could just go out
00:37:37and do whatever he wants to yeah men are sharing these posts but what are you doing so much in life
00:37:41you need care I'm sorry but our woman over here needs more care like she just yeah so why would
00:37:47I mean again embarrassing you want somebody soft launch whatever launch no I don't think there
00:37:53should be any guys like whatever so you know after having so many examples around you you feel like
00:37:58okay I'm not gonna say this because what if I find something icky right yeah yeah and then it will be even more
00:38:06embarrassing so the best is to not launch very interesting question which I wanted to ask you
00:38:12is there's a very beautiful yes there's a beautiful line in this as as you mentioned that it doesn't
00:38:21necessarily the piece doesn't necessarily ask somebody to not get a partner yeah right so there's this
00:38:26beautiful line there's there's no shame in loving and feeling so what do you think about that
00:38:30no I feel it's okay okay people should say there are no no you can no I saw the train of thought
00:38:39coming and then suddenly yeah yeah yeah this is unhinged yeah I know I know I'm totally
00:38:44very unhinged but there is a follow-up piece also that this woman wrote by the way after getting trolled
00:38:50and after getting like when this whole thing went viral right so she she calls it a cultural shift
00:38:57which I agree with now coming back to your question about feeling I think and this was a
00:39:05really outprop when we first came in and we also got critique for it criticized rather would you say
00:39:11that you know feelings are really important right if you don't feel then you'll not be able to
00:39:17understand a lot of things right so feelings are very important and I think if you're human you should
00:39:22feel right the fact that I was talking to my friend yesterday one other friend and he said that he
00:39:28feels guilty about certain things right so I think that's a great thing if you're feeling that you
00:39:33know that's the first step actually and so feeling and falling in love and trying to make it work are not
00:39:40reasons to be ashamed of for sure I mean I used to feel that way but now I don't actually it's really nice to
00:39:47feel for someone to kind of say I mean this whole vulnerability which is kind of looked down upon
00:39:54which actually a lot of men think being vulnerable and I've had these conversations with one of my
00:39:59men friends that you know they they feel that vulnerability is not manhood right so they've not
00:40:06been taught that right they don't my boys don't cry men don't cry that kind of stuff but I feel
00:40:11it's a very beautiful thing to feel and to say it okay yeah listen I love you you are not up for it
00:40:19and it's okay yeah I'm not going to go and I mean of course there will be differences and I'm not
00:40:27looking down upon men for sure but it's beautiful it's a beautiful thing to feel yeah and I think men
00:40:36most men some men do not know how beautiful it can be to feel and then to commit or and to be
00:40:43one and to be vulnerable because they just think that you're threatening their god knows what manhood
00:40:48that they carry and the problem and the other point I'm going to come to is that see a lot of
00:40:54people think of working women right like people who are independent let's say paying their bills and
00:40:59everything else they somehow think that we are in fact I just watched a Julia Roberts series called
00:41:04after the hunt yeah and in that she's called unfeeling cold you things like that she does feel
00:41:11that's a nice but there are all these things so work when we work we work right so we also have jobs
00:41:19we also have a lot of things and it's not easy to be the woman in a workplace also because then men
00:41:28are not used to you like there are all kinds of things that will come at you you know I mean I
00:41:33especially have seen it in my case you know there are male editors you know you never say things but
00:41:38I mean anyways but I'm saying that those things are there but especially in journalism if you're
00:41:45journalists if you don't feel for your subject will you be able to write a good story if you don't
00:41:49open yourself to the person that you're interviewing and I think it's a I wouldn't say it's a transaction
00:41:55it's also like opening up and kind of like when I used to go to the brothels to interview the women
00:42:02I would always share my story so that it doesn't look like yeah you'd ask me to do the same
00:42:07yeah I don't think they cared whether I wrote a story or did not write it it's connecting it's
00:42:12connecting but I'm just saying that it also allows you to be and I think journalism helped me a lot in
00:42:19terms of being vulnerable and you know I've cried on the ground many times in fact I had to go to
00:42:24therapy after you know doing many interviews like in fact Chennai when I went to the mental facility
00:42:32I actually went to the office like kind of on drips because the stories became too much and I think
00:42:37that also helps you as a person so feeling is very important there's nothing wrong in feeling
00:42:44another question which I think my partner mentions it a lot is love is never enough
00:42:51love is not enough so and she reminds me of it every day that if you just tell me that you love me
00:42:57there are 100 other things that you need to do and those are equally important those are tantamount and
00:43:02if you just feel that love answers for every place that you fail to show up or every situation
00:43:07that you feel to understand the nuances of the nuances which I was talking about and you feel to
00:43:12bring them that the fact that you love me is never a reason it is that actions matter absolutely love is
00:43:18just a word absolutely you have to be in love to tolerate a person but more than that there's other
00:43:25things that make you feel the love you know it is actions like support whether it is showing up
00:43:31absolutely showing up all the time it's like the old journalism thing show don't tell
00:43:34yeah oh my goodness absolutely yeah is love and journalism connected completely yeah I don't know
00:43:42that was a very interesting introduction there I don't know I don't know but also when you say it is
00:43:49good to love and you fail but how many times you know you also stop the first few times you
00:43:56fail you feel vulnerable but then you stop you stop your feelings for the next time a guy comes
00:44:04you don't fall in love easily so that's also what happens like after four five times I don't know if I
00:44:11am capable of that kind of love anymore because I have opened my heart I have failed I'm not sad about
00:44:19those things but I don't know how easy it is for me to now open my heart again because it'll take for
00:44:25every person that goes it takes longer for the next person to come in so that's also a problem you
00:44:31know it's very easy to write it's okay to love and fail it is okay but then what happens after you
00:44:37know you become you become a little more jaded that happens for sure and then that new person who
00:44:44is trying has to go through all of these past experiences of yours and may not even you may not
00:44:52even like that person you know this reminds me like if you have seen call me by your name I have yeah
00:44:58I really love that movie so much the end scene where I forget timothy's character's name is
00:45:06speaking to his father and his father kind of had an idea that him and person were involved and
00:45:15he says this line where like timothy's really sad and you know after this guy has left for america again
00:45:23and he says that like you know we like you have to he he said like I don't remember the exact lines
00:45:31but he says something along the lines of that you know you every time this happens you have to feel
00:45:36it all otherwise what happens is you become so spent for the next person you don't have any energy
00:45:42so the only way to process whatever will come next or even be open or inviting to the next person
00:45:50is like feeling the pain and I feel like a lot of people don't want to
00:45:54very uncomfortable no because you've got options available everywhere so you suppress and
00:45:58suppress yeah it's damn difficult to be uncomfortable right your whole life your whole
00:46:05being is called into question right so you start to feel like maybe I'm ugly maybe I'm not smart enough
00:46:12all kinds of things right yeah you have to go through all of that but I think
00:46:18even feeling that is a part of it right like if no you have to yeah people don't want to feel right
00:46:24yeah they don't and because it's not easy to feel yeah it's not easy to feel and because you don't
00:46:28know how long it will take for you to come out of it like some people laugh it for it it lasts longer
00:46:34than for some others right so it's very difficult like it's also your weaknesses you have to come to
00:46:41terms with it it's okay like you know try try until you succeed yeah but it's not easy or
00:46:46bhaja fry your friends like for hours and hours and hours yeah like I'm so indebted to my friends
00:46:52who came and sat yeah I just like heard and heard and yes and yeah morning same thing again somebody
00:47:00has to come with the chinky needs to be like yeah you need one person where you're yeah for this like
00:47:06I feel like uh again like like um I feel like when people are in relationship like women especially
00:47:15I feel like a lot of times their female friends are also doing a lot of emotional labor no yes
00:47:20these are my men friends huh these are my men friends oh wow okay oh wow that is all the time
00:47:27one time I had a breakup I remember this one friend of mine flew in uh from Bombay to Delhi just so that
00:47:34I was okay in the flight and I'm like I'm fine you know I mean but that is so sweet oh no for me it's
00:47:40always been women yeah the emotional no for me women have always put me on some other extreme no men have
00:47:46been great no like no not my uh male friends will literally be like if they could they will just be
00:47:52like please like end it now yeah let's get over let's let's move fast but again I do not have a lot
00:47:59of uh male friends as well like I don't have they're the best ones you know I think you
00:48:04but Samad said chinky you don't have tension in a month we will be so high in a month we will be so high
00:48:10that then you will come and anything will happen and nothing will happen but I'm thinking it's great to have
00:48:14men pretty cool yeah I drink because they also are men right they get it and yeah for me it's the emotion
00:48:22my emotional upkeep yeah or the woman keeping yes it's always been same like I don't feel like men take
00:48:32it as seriously as it is happening to me I don't feel like men want to hear it repeatedly when I'm doing
00:48:40it I don't realize I'm doing it multiple times it just that's the thing that comes up mine is like a
00:48:45tape recorder play same stuff same stuff yeah yeah same I'll I'll go on looking this happened that
00:48:51happened blah blah blah blah blah like no he said this like so I feel like women have done more of the
00:49:00yeah same for me like I remember telling something to one of my uh male friends and he was like dude what
00:49:07are you doing like did you not see this coming like what you had closed your eyes and you just went
00:49:12off I was like sometimes that helps so that's also why they're up front right but that's also why men are
00:49:18embarrassing yeah it's a prime example if you can't feel yeah this is this very interesting thing
00:49:26actually after coming to the relationship it's sorry I will interrupt and ask like if this is not
00:49:33two on him like how long have you been with your partner yeah so it's been more than three years
00:49:37now okay right so and yeah of course what is that it's called cynicism yeah
00:49:46uh wow wow wow okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah anyway I'm feeling hopeful here what
00:49:55oh yeah Ashton this is the biggest thing in me see what happened in elections yes yeah no no continue
00:50:02no no the thing is uh once you're done uh once once I'm done hanging out out with her and I come back
00:50:08and I want to talk about what happened I always felt that it was embarrassing to talk to my street
00:50:14male friends that this is what we did today this is the restaurant that we went to this is the cafe
00:50:18that we um that we went to and I felt that that was kind of something that they did not want like as
00:50:24you thought I mean let's talk about something else that was the usual yeah they do not so and uh the
00:50:30person that there's this particular friend in my circle and he used to be always very interested
00:50:35tell me about your day and I used to take that for granted I used to be like let's let's probably have
00:50:40fun why do you want to talk about this but after coming to the relationship
00:50:44I think the other person has made me realize the fact that there's a lot of joy there's a lot of
00:50:48joy in being soft in in being around soft people in being around in in just not being insecure of your
00:50:55softness because your softness is not threatening any bit of you yeah it's probably amplifying what
00:51:00you feel for others and the person that you are so I think that is a very important learning experience
00:51:05for even of course these are these are people that I've been friends with for over 25 years now my
00:51:09straight male friends but that doesn't mean that you're only 25 yeah so you can't be friends with
00:51:14them for 20 years no no actually no no actually tell you something because uh the friends which
00:51:20I have right now we have like there are a few friends which I have shared hospital cradles with like
00:51:25we were born in the same hospital so around the murder so they have been friends yeah which is which
00:51:32is which is which is a weird thing but yeah I don't necessarily term them to be emotionally immature
00:51:38people but I think there's it's important to walk up to them be like this yes this I want to talk
00:51:45about this so if you're my friend as much as a world cup or a cricket match or a football match is
00:51:50important I would want to talk about this as well I would like to share about how my day went as well
00:51:54I think that should be an equally important conversation yeah I do that and I feel a lot
00:51:59of joy out of that yeah how do your friends respond yeah because I think it's very important to if I am
00:52:06a person who's influencing change I do not want to take that responsibility all the time but if I've done
00:52:10that I feel certain amount of joy I think in our in my very immediate friend circle I've been able to do
00:52:15that where people come in and talk about things which are not usually the boys masculine stuff
00:52:21and we can talk about other things it's okay to talk about how I was how I was feeling insecure
00:52:25wearing a shirt today I came into the office I was feeling very insecure that I was not looking
00:52:29how I want to and this is not a conversation I would usually have with my male friends after coming
00:52:34back from school or college but with this person coming into my life I think there's this softness
00:52:38which I've embraced and I am really thankful because uh touchwood this goes on for as long as I
00:52:45um yeah all of us want great time yeah but we are also having a great time because we have the softness
00:52:56within us yeah he's having to source it from somewhere else yeah so I think we are having
00:53:03I acknowledge it I acknowledge it absolutely that there was a certain point of that until
00:53:08where I was absolutely I did not know anything about this I felt that I was doing the right thing
00:53:12but yes I do add on to that a very important understanding which I talked about initially as
00:53:16well that I grew up around my mother controlling things I grew up around my aunt controlling things
00:53:22and I grew up with a cousin who's not who's always taught me to not be insecure of the fact that yes you
00:53:30can like things in a way which is not very normative so you can go outside the normative you can you can
00:53:35experience you can see what you like for yourself and I think that also led to this understanding that
00:53:40yes I am a person who's open to experience it and I'm a person who will talk so if you feel that this
00:53:45this conversation doesn't deserve a space amongst a men's circle either you influence a change or it is
00:53:50very important to walk out of spaces which have already made you feel comfortable and explore
00:53:54uncomfortable spaces as well but find that softness around you I think that is how I credit it very much to
00:54:00my mother and my aunt who's who's taught me to be this person who knows how to talk to women how to
00:54:04learn things from women how to and especially with Aislin what Aislin was mentioning that I do not look
00:54:11up to the partner that I have as somebody who will nurture me or somebody who will care for me because
00:54:16that is something you you as a lot of men they are always inclined to look at their partners as their
00:54:23mother yeah and for nurturing and the man-child syndrome which is which has been happening oh my
00:54:29god yes and embarrassing yes very embarrassing very embarrassing yes I'm so tired of seeing my
00:54:36friends be with people like this article uses the word like quote-unquote losers yeah loserish men right
00:54:45like yeah like I have seen such brilliant women out there who are like really doing well in their
00:54:52careers and everything else and then I don't know where they find this man who wants to suck the soul
00:54:57out of her life I don't know why yeah but while they're in it yeah if you tell them they are not going to see it
00:55:04but after they come out I will also not see it I'll be like it all gets magnified oh my god yeah actually
00:55:09you know so it does happen yeah I want to ask you a question you know love is never enough I feel and we
00:55:15take one which was regarding that I feel love is actually enough more than enough but whether we are
00:55:21able to love that way is not is the question but isn't that a bit suffocating then no it's not
00:55:27how do you say love because you're looking at love in a very different way maybe so there's this
00:55:31a writer James Baldwin who talks about the politics of love it's very important to love in a way where
00:55:39you first love yourself right but loving yourself doesn't mean self-care improvement all of that
00:55:44therapeuticized situation where you are no it also means to confront yourself right in terms of your
00:55:50politics in terms of your you know your setbacks whatever and then it challenges you
00:55:55to kind of like come to terms with or face those insecurities that you have right so you may
00:56:04be thinking that okay I'm of this particular I mean I'm bending towards this ideology but then I'm not
00:56:11being nice to this person that person there's a lot of overlaps happen and once you have confronted
00:56:16that it also allows you to love and I don't mean love in a very romantic way but there are also
00:56:22all kinds of love right so I'm saying that love is actually really enough you know right if we
00:56:28learn how to do it so I learned I'm now 46 but I've also felt that you know expectations so every
00:56:37human being will have expectations but also the fact that it's okay to love properly and not just
00:56:46in a way that is a prescribed way exactly and then maybe it will not be so embarrassing but I have to
00:56:52ask so when you say love is enough do you mean like the feeling of love or like you knowing that
00:56:58oh the other person loves me is enough and the other person has to not do anything or like
00:57:03I'm not talking about in a romantic relationship situation I'm talking about love in general as a
00:57:11notion or as a feeling right it's a very powerful feeling I don't know when he talks about this
00:57:17politics of love right a lot of this politics that we see I mean we're surrounded by actually
00:57:24can be countered with this and a lot of our issues so let's say if I am in a relationship
00:57:31and I'm jokes apart if the person did some like whatever was not enough I mean he didn't he didn't
00:57:36show up whatever whatever why should I deny my love because my love is still powerful right
00:57:42I may walk out I may not surrender in terms of changing my patterns or whatever patterns money
00:57:49I'm saying my job or whatever but that shouldn't mean that I kind of say that oh no I didn't love
00:57:56this person because I think that teaches you a lot of things every relationship that you will have
00:58:01whether I mean embarrassing or embarrassing whatever will teach you something about your
00:58:06own identity so do you mean love in all its forms like friendship also completely romantic love
00:58:12platonic love parental love even in the political arena yeah so in the sense that all forms of love
00:58:19are enough not just a romantic love no otherwise you make it very transactional right that okay I did
00:58:26this then you should and I have done that right so I was like oh you didn't show up I showed up
00:58:31whatever whatever whatever but love is yeah but isn't love also showing up emotionally so you guys are
00:58:38like again looking at I'm talking a very different concept here see love is about showing up right
00:58:44but can you can I control Agni Dev no so I'm not responsible for his showing up I will show up
00:58:49like I will go to a protest march right and whether I get the diaz or no it doesn't matter because I will go
00:58:55there right and I have shown up at all I mean that's one of my commitments to protest you know I
00:59:01always go to a protest right so no matter what so I'm saying that I can't be responsible or can't
00:59:10base everything on your showing up but for me it's enough that I show up I will show up for people my
00:59:15friends have shown up for me and I think that's enough
00:59:19so are you saying that if suppose you go to this protest but don't be in relationship where you
00:59:25feel a bit whatever but don't deny that the love was there maybe don't do a launch at all but yeah
00:59:32maybe don't do a launch at all you asked me about protest no I'm saying that so do you not have the
00:59:38expectation that like suppose you go to the protest because okay you want you care about it you go for
00:59:46it but suppose you are organizing a protest like I'm I don't know why I'm using this analogy but
00:59:51and then you tell me yeah a party let's say yeah okay then okay yeah party or protest what are we
00:59:59going with whichever let's go with protests since we're also all journalists anyways no journalists also
01:00:06party come on yes yes it is a party so and then you organize this and then you tell your friends and
01:00:14whoever whatever will you not have the expectation that they also show up or like
01:00:19no so I learned this by the way I used to be one of those people who would be like you don't show
01:00:25up I'm gonna cut you off you know we'll we had this mafia type situation in our group where we had
01:00:31something called the protocol right and the protocol was always in place and you behave like one of those
01:00:36people who had all these friends and they had to show up otherwise next day they're blocked gone
01:00:44but you know my friend and he's my best friend and he you know he was here for three years and then
01:00:50he's gone abroad now but he I mean with him I learned firstly I could never say no to things so I started
01:00:58saying no to things because showing up and getting bored is not really my thing we were getting bored at
01:01:02many of these so-called parties and the other thing he taught me was that it's okay to not show up I
01:01:08mean now much better so if you tell me that oh you know I can't come because whatever it's okay I mean
01:01:14why do we have to take everything so personally I think showing up here also brings in the concept
01:01:20of emotionally showing up yeah yeah that's what right yeah because the context which I was talking about
01:01:28was about uh she comes from work and she's talking about something it's important for me to show up
01:01:34as a partner where it's not only about listening like it's also about participating because if I'm a
01:01:39passive listener so there I have to show up emotionally I if I'm bringing in the love which I'm claiming
01:01:45that I so yes there's love there need not be anything else because we grew up watching Moola
01:01:51Roosh and Moola Roosh was the most beautiful feeling in the world is to love and be loved in return
01:01:55yeah that is that is the kind of emotion that pushed a person like me but in practicality if
01:02:01you're talking about showing up it's also about emotionally showing up physically of course if
01:02:05there's a situation where the person needs me I need to show up whatever the circumstances be but
01:02:10emotionally showing up I think it's a more important thing to be there to be present in a way which is
01:02:16not passive yeah and to show that yes this is this is this is what you need right now and I know what you
01:02:21need so if you're if you want to rant about what's happening at work you do not need logic right
01:02:26now you do not need solutions right now you just need a year so at any year at this point of time
01:02:31I will only give you the year but if you bring in though you're doing something which is wrong
01:02:35you should tackle it this way that's not what she needs at that moment it took me some time it's still
01:02:40taking me time it's I'm not always the person which I'm talking about but I I aspire to be there
01:02:46someday yeah so yeah that's been a conversation like she won't be embarrassed of you yeah I was
01:02:52going to say yeah we are only proud of you now exactly the thing is if if she's asked this question
01:02:59that are you yeah pushing it I'm just saying the way if uh he's saying also that I'm trying yeah at
01:03:09least his girlfriend will be proud no I know why shouldn't we be proud of a male kari yeah who's
01:03:14learning I mean yeah who's learning and unlearning that is a lot of being too cautious about things
01:03:19we shouldn't wait that's why unhinged no yeah it's okay yeah it's cool like to have love and to have
01:03:25lost it's better to have not love at all yeah yeah we want to praise basic this is very important
01:03:32yeah very important bare minimum the bare minimum we are not praising we are at least encouraging
01:03:38because men have not learned it as if one person is learning it let's like encourage it yeah but
01:03:43this is bare about a man it's also about a person who's trying I mean I'm trying I was not a very
01:03:49good listener for for a long time and I'm trying now so I think for everybody who listens and I
01:03:54think shows up I think we should encourage them the whole point was about having a boyfriend whether
01:04:02it's embarrassing yeah because of all the things that men have been doing gaslighting ghosting you
01:04:07know going silent silent seasons silent treatments all kinds of nonsense and also their independence
01:04:12being threatened because the women have changed women are working so women are now becoming cautious
01:04:16yeah yeah so yeah that then it's a little embarrassing I feel like like okay let's just throw the
01:04:23question out to the table and say yes or no like of course there are no definitive answers but let's
01:04:30start with you do you think is having a boyfriend embarrassing or not do you just want a single
01:04:48word for as an answer I mean it's important she has she's taught me the importance of brevity yeah so
01:04:55let's give like three four words all right it's equal to one yeah essentially yes but there's always
01:05:07growth to look after so I think that's the only thing okay yeah very nice what about you Ashlyn I
01:05:13will say having a boyfriend is not embarrassing but I may be embarrassed to introduce if him if he's not
01:05:21a certain kind of guy yeah because I am not going to be embarrassed because it shows that I shouldn't be
01:05:29in any relationship that I am embarrassed of so I don't think I'll be embarrassed if I am then I should
01:05:35run away from that relationship that is the bottom line I think I have also like similar thoughts about
01:05:42this I feel like if you are with the right person yeah like then it should not have that like you should
01:05:52not have that sense of shame or embarrassment right and like I said like I should feel like oh this is
01:05:59somebody who's adding to my life and you know uplifting the ways I am already right so I would welcome it but
01:06:06yes I may not flaunt it yes I will not flaunt it also because I feel like is it the evil eye yes it is the
01:06:14nazar I will not I truly think like I don't like posting things on my social media yeah yeah because
01:06:22you know you guys are not looking at the origins of where this thing because I'm telling you I posted
01:06:28two days later I'm like I don't even know removed so I'm saying given the history of my boyfriends
01:06:33I think it should be like total embarrassment now to even say if I don't change my pattern and go
01:06:40for those kinds of men completely embarrassing and now yeah but I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a
01:06:46boyfriend but if you change your patterns and then go and find someone then I don't know what
01:06:52patterns I'm trying to go to a therapist but to figure out my patterns but I don't think I was ever
01:07:01like in a way rude I would cut off people but rude no cutting off people is also a little
01:07:08no not like that I have also done this though I will like they do something
01:07:12cut off people if they are not adding value yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah I have also done
01:07:17yeah yeah yeah because if they're toxic remove absolutely yeah yeah unreasonable then I'm like okay
01:07:24fine okay then okay okay one or two or three times I'll cut off yeah absolutely adding adding to
01:07:32do but basic to do like bare minimum there's nothing to please my past is so bad and it's so
01:07:40embarrassing that I can't even like like forget about it I thought I'll write a novel about it
01:07:46that is empowering yes embarrassment to empower love or something but not to say I'm an angel but I'm
01:07:54saying that if you okay yeah should we wrap up yes I think that's a very beautiful yeah way to end it
01:08:01okay so thank you so much thank you I hope our viewers enjoyed this conversation and have taken away
01:08:08something that we have discussed from this please stay tuned with outlook for our following episodes
01:08:14no and also we have to say that if the viewers have any relationship issues or want to discuss
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01:08:33thank you thank you thank you so much thank you thank you
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