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00:00joins us every single Wednesday at 9 20. A good friend, Dan lobby, cleveland.com joining us now,
00:06Dan, what's going on? Hey Jake, what's up? Oh yeah. I mean,
00:10from where we were last week to where we are right now, Dan, I can tell you,
00:14I am sitting here pleasantly surprised as a fan of the team.
00:18It's strange. You know, you walk into that stadium on, on Sunday and you think is like,
00:23is this the end for Deshaun Watson as the starter? And then that weird game happens.
00:28You get a two hour rain delay, right at, right at the two minute warning.
00:32And the next thing you know,
00:33it's not even a question if he's going to start in week three.
00:35So it was a strange series of events.
00:39You got to give Watson credit as his back was against the wall.
00:42I think he probably understood that. And he played really well in that game,
00:45especially in the second half. So saved his job for at least one more week.
00:49And it was a, it was a strange Sunday on a lot of levels.
00:53Dan, I mean, we've talked a lot, even about a, you know, Deshaun Watson,
00:57obviously the mentality,
01:00the questions that have been brought back up around his handling of the media,
01:04obviously his reaction to the fans after the Buffalo game.
01:07I mean,
01:08there has to be a kind of tip of the cap to the mentality to know your backs
01:12against the wall like that.
01:13And I'm not even just as a Browns quarterback,
01:16but potentially as a NFL quarterback period and to put up the type of game he
01:20did. Right.
01:22Right. I mean, to, to your point, this is his shot.
01:24No, if he would have struggled in that game,
01:27you got to ask yourself who even would give him another shot.
01:30If the Browns benched him and he never played here again,
01:33at the very least he's given himself one more game and, you know,
01:36I'll even give him credit to the point you were making there about sort of how
01:40standoffish it's been with the fans going back to that preseason game.
01:43I think he's at least said the right thing since then,
01:46even after he won the starting job,
01:47I think he kind of owned up to it a little bit.
01:50And then I thought today he handled it pretty well also.
01:53Now, you know,
01:55words are what they are and if fans don't want to hear it,
01:57then they're not going to hear it.
01:58But at the very least,
01:59I think he's done a better job of,
02:01of kind of trying to mend that fence a little bit.
02:04Dan,
02:05what do you think the fan reaction on Sunday is going to be now that Browns
02:09are coming off of a win?
02:10I think we all could have kind of imagined that if it would have been
02:13Jacksonville all over again,
02:14and Cleveland would have started him probably would have been very loud and
02:18not the way the Browns wanted it on Sunday.
02:19But what do you think it sounds like now?
02:22It's hard for me to imagine.
02:24It's going to be really bad.
02:25I mean,
02:26I think there will be booze.
02:27I think there's people that just don't want him to be the starter.
02:29And I understand that,
02:30but it's hard for me to imagine that people would look at this after they're,
02:34you know,
02:35when they're coming off a win and they won the game in large part because of
02:39how he played,
02:39not in spite of how he played.
02:41I think it's,
02:42it's hard to really sit here and think that fans are going to just want to
02:45boo him endlessly in this game.
02:47Now,
02:47how much,
02:48how much time did he buy?
02:49Is it two incompletions?
02:51Is it a half?
02:52You know,
02:53I think the patients will run thin quickly,
02:56but I'm not expecting a super hostile reception just because I don't know
03:01how,
03:01how could you,
03:02you've got to feel at least good about what this team did.
03:04They've got a shot to get to two and one.
03:06And then who knows what happens with Pittsburgh coming to town four days later,
03:09they obviously looked bad on,
03:10on Sunday and Aaron Rogers looks every bit of 42 years old.
03:14So,
03:15you know,
03:16you start to,
03:16to get ahead of yourself a little bit and think about where this might be
03:19going.
03:20I,
03:20I don't know if it's,
03:21if there's really a lot of room to just,
03:23you know,
03:24spend your energy booing and heckling Deshaun Watson,
03:27at least at the start of the game.
03:29And on the flip side of it,
03:31just looking at the offense kind of as a whole,
03:33Dan,
03:34a little bit,
03:34what I've done at the start of the week is almost try to remind people
03:37because the wind was great.
03:39It felt good to get it.
03:39It was obviously a tremendous fourth quarter.
03:41They had six points heading into that fourth quarter.
03:43Like the offense still struggled very early on.
03:48Is this something that you look at the sort of formula they use to win in
03:52week two and think that it's a repeatable,
03:55sustainable going forward in the season.
03:58If that first half is part of the formula,
04:01then no,
04:01because I think there,
04:02there are certain situations and certain teams and Carolina could be one of
04:06them.
04:06I honestly don't know what I think of Carolina at this point,
04:09but you know,
04:10if you just kick field goals,
04:12if you only score as much as they did in that first half,
04:15if you're going against a different team,
04:18then you might be in a much bigger deficit,
04:20right?
04:20I mean,
04:20Baker Mayfield was a mess in that game on Sunday and he was just as bad as
04:24Deshaun Watson was in the first half.
04:25It almost feels a little bit like,
04:27you know,
04:27it's not completely the same,
04:30but you know,
04:30Deshaun Watson's most famous game in Cleveland was that Baltimore game a few
04:35years ago.
04:36And he played one of the worst first halves of football that I've seen.
04:39And you were wondering if he was going to get benched in that game.
04:42And then he goes 14 for 14 in the second half and leads them on a comeback.
04:45So,
04:46you know,
04:46this wasn't quite to that level,
04:49but you know,
04:49he was not great in the first half of that game.
04:52And then he played really well in the second half and in the fourth quarter.
04:55So again,
04:57I don't know that that's a sustainable way to win.
05:00You've got to be able to get on the board early and at least stay in games.
05:03And if you're just kicking field goals,
05:05you know,
05:05some teams are just going to run you off the field like Jacksonville did.
05:08And again,
05:09Dan lobby with this here on the hotline run game continues to be a massive
05:13problem of that.
05:14And you combo it with the average depth of target for Deshaun,
05:17which I believe was 3.7 air yards,
05:20which is a career low for him.
05:24How much is this team impacted by this run game getting going?
05:27And do you think that we could see it this week or is this thing still maybe a
05:30little bit further away?
05:32Well,
05:33Todd Munkin was pretty blunt.
05:34Like he,
05:35he believes they have to be able to run the football.
05:37And if they can't do it this week,
05:38then it's really time to sound the alarms because Carolina has been awful
05:41against the run.
05:42Now,
05:43you know,
05:43to their credit,
05:45I guess I would say they were going against Ben Johnson and the bears and
05:48Ben Johnson is really good at scheming up the run game.
05:51And then even Atlanta,
05:52even though they had Cooper rush and Jack strand,
05:54they still have B John Robinson.
05:55So he's going to,
05:56he's going to do some damage against you no matter what.
06:00So maybe it's some of that,
06:01but they're allowing over six yards to carry.
06:03And that's the worst in the league.
06:05So if they can't figure out this run game,
06:07and if this offensive line can't get some push against this Carolina team,
06:11then I think it's going to be really panic time for the run game.
06:13They have to be able to get that going because the reality is,
06:17you know,
06:18I think the Sean Watson can be more aggressive than he was in this last
06:22game,
06:22but this is kind of who he is.
06:24He is a game manager at this point.
06:26He's a guy who's going to be opportunistic looking for big plays.
06:29He's going to be opportunistic to use his legs,
06:31but you know,
06:33that Houston version of Sean Watson,
06:34I don't think that's in there anymore.
06:36So you've got to be able to support him with a run game.
06:38You look at the run game right now.
06:40What do you chalk it up to a Quinchon hasn't been great.
06:43That offensive line is certainly hasn't been great.
06:45What's kind of the percentage split where you place the blame for the
06:48struggles right now.
06:50I think a lot of it's the line and I think it comes back to kind of how new
06:54they are.
06:55And if you really look at it,
06:56Spencer Fano just won that left tackle job at the beginning of training
06:59camp.
06:59And it took a couple of weeks.
07:01Austin Barber wasn't even playing guard at the beginning of training camp.
07:04That didn't happen until really,
07:05that didn't gain steam until the Buffalo game.
07:08And he wasn't even officially the starter until right before week one when
07:11Tevin Jenkins got hurt.
07:13So,
07:14you know,
07:14this is a new line.
07:15You got Elton Jenkins at center.
07:17You've got Zion Johnson now at left guard.
07:20This is a new look line.
07:21And the run,
07:22there's a lot that goes into the run game.
07:24I don't know if people really,
07:26I don't want to say that they don't grasp it,
07:28but they don't really think about just how much has to go into a run play to be
07:32successful.
07:32It really is all the parts on the offensive line.
07:35It is the running back.
07:37It is,
07:37you know,
07:38how guys,
07:39you know,
07:39can guys get to the second level?
07:41Can receivers block?
07:42It really is one of those plays that takes every single person on the field.
07:46And I do think a part of it might just be,
07:48this is a new group that hasn't played together.
07:50And when this run game was at its best under Kevin Stefanski,
07:53you had guys like Joel Batonio and Wyatt Teller,
07:55who were two of the best polling guards in football.
07:58So maybe it's going to take a little time on task for this O-line,
08:01but they really do need to get up to speed quickly here.
08:04Dan,
08:05last week we talked about obviously concerns with the defense after their
08:08performance in Jacksonville.
08:10How much of a bounce back did you see for them in week two?
08:15I mean,
08:16it was like night and day.
08:17Now I still have some concerns about the defensive line.
08:20Jared Verse has been very quiet so far as he kind of settles in as that
08:25number one edge rusher.
08:26I don't know what they're going to do with that second edge rush spot.
08:29Still,
08:30you know,
08:30Isaiah McGuire made some plays,
08:32but I don't know if he can consistently be your number two guy.
08:35I do love the interior of the line.
08:37Mason Graham is off to a great start.
08:38I thought he was good last year and now it's converting into,
08:41into sacks this year.
08:43So that's good.
08:43I think the late Collins is getting healthier,
08:45but that's still the area that concerns me.
08:47I think we saw Mike Grudenberg blitz more in this game.
08:50And if you blitz more,
08:51that's going to leave you exposed in some spots.
08:53So can Bryce Young take advantage of that with the,
08:55with the weapons he has?
08:57We'll see.
08:58I think he's been decent against the blitz this year.
09:00So it's going to be a test.
09:02It's going to be,
09:02you know,
09:03an adjustment,
09:03but it was good to see Mike Grudenberg make some adjustments and,
09:07and dial up the pressure in different ways.
09:10Is it too early to be worrying about Jared verse,
09:13but because I think obviously the production warrants it,
09:16but even going back and watching the tape,
09:19it's not like a,
09:20you know,
09:20Jared's just creating a bunch of pressures and not getting to the
09:23quarterback,
09:24especially in week one,
09:25you kind of watch them get dominated by that Jacksonville line.
09:29Yeah.
09:29I mean,
09:30I do tend to default a little bit to it.
09:32It's like too early after two weeks,
09:33but you're right.
09:35I mean,
09:35we're not seeing him make that impact even without the sack numbers.
09:38He's,
09:38and this was something that you kind of circled coming into the season.
09:42We said it over and over again,
09:43like we know he's not miles Garrett.
09:45And this is the first time really in his career that he's been the guy on
09:49that line.
09:50Even if you go back to LA,
09:52I always,
09:52I felt like Byron young was,
09:54it was kind of their number one guy there.
09:56And Jared verse was sort of their,
09:57their one,
09:58a,
09:58I guess I would,
09:59I would say,
09:59but he's,
10:01he's dealing with getting more chips.
10:02He's dealing with getting more attention.
10:04And the other thing,
10:05he's been pretty open about this.
10:06He's really trying to increase that pass rush bag.
10:09He really came here as strictly a power guy.
10:12We're seeing him try some different things and they,
10:14and they haven't always been working.
10:16So I think it's still a work in progress for him,
10:19but I,
10:21I'm again,
10:21sort of like the run game.
10:22I'm not in panic mode yet,
10:23but I would like to see Jared verse make a little more of an impact as,
10:27as we go along here.
10:29And again,
10:29Dan lobby with this on the hotline,
10:32Dan continuing it to look now a kind of Todd Munkin.
10:35Obviously there were some major concerns,
10:37some things being said by fans about how much they trust him and how much
10:41faith they have in him.
10:42How much of that did he gain back with a week to win?
10:45And then maybe some favorable comments after the game.
10:49Yeah.
10:49He played the hits after that game.
10:51That's for sure.
10:52You know,
10:53look,
10:53you know,
10:54that stuff is fun.
10:54It gives us something to talk about.
10:56It's good for headlines and all of that,
10:58but the bottom line and,
10:59and to get to Todd's credit,
11:00I think he understands it.
11:01The bottom line is you have to win games and that's ultimately how you win
11:04over the fan base.
11:06They win that game.
11:07So guess what?
11:07We're not talking about.
11:08We're not talking about the decision to go for it on fourth down in their
11:12own territory and a defensive battle.
11:13We're not talking about,
11:15you know,
11:16that challenge that would have saved them three yards.
11:18If they lose that game,
11:19those become bigger topics.
11:21So if you win,
11:22people are going to like you.
11:24If you lose,
11:25it's going to be a lot tougher of a sell.
11:27So I thought Todd did a better job in this game.
11:30I thought he called a better game.
11:32I thought he did a nice job creating easy yards in spots for Deshaun Watson.
11:36And,
11:37and I think he'll get more and more comfortable with some of that decision
11:40making,
11:41you know,
11:41going,
11:41when to go for it on fourth down,
11:43you know,
11:43when to challenge things like that.
11:45But he needed to get this window,
11:47because I think you're right.
11:48I think this fan base,
11:49because of all the Deshaun stuff and,
11:52and how sort of,
11:53you know,
11:53I don't care.
11:54He's been at a lot of it.
11:56I think this fan base was starting to waver a little bit.
11:59Dan,
11:59looking forward to week three.
12:00I know you said you don't know kind of what to think of Carolina.
12:03Is this an eight-lead team that you looked at,
12:06you see the way that Cleveland lines up,
12:07you see the way they line up,
12:08and you think is a good or bad matchup for the Browns?
12:13I think it's a good matchup in some ways,
12:16because I do think the fact that the Browns can bring pressure up the
12:19middle with Mason Graham and Malik Collins,
12:21I think that can make things difficult for Bryce Young.
12:24And,
12:25you know,
12:25obviously he's a guy that has learned to overcome his size,
12:28but he is still small.
12:29And I think if you can bring pressure up the middle,
12:32that might cause problems for him.
12:34I also think the Browns are equipped on the outside,
12:37as long as Tyson Campbell's able to play him.
12:40And I think he will on Sunday,
12:41if he's able to go,
12:43you've got guys who can kind of work against those weapons that he's got
12:46on the outside.
12:47You know,
12:48they can run the ball a little bit.
12:50They do have good weapons.
12:51Bryce Young is off to a really good start.
12:54Again,
12:55I just,
12:55I'm sitting there watching that game the other day,
12:58and I'm just not sure if they're good.
13:00I'm not sure if they're just like a good NFC South team.
13:04I don't know what to make of them.
13:06So I'm,
13:08I don't even know what I'm going to pick in this game.
13:09And I am sort of leaning towards,
13:11maybe I will pick the Browns,
13:12but then I could also see Carolina just coming in and proving me wrong by,
13:16you know,
13:17scoring a ton of points and making this look like that Jacksonville game.
13:20I don't think that's going to happen,
13:21but I think that potential is there.
13:23I just don't know what to make of them.
13:26I wanted to,
13:27to look back towards a kind of Deshaun for a second,
13:29because you obviously said it buys him one more game.
13:33His performance that he had last week,
13:34Dan,
13:34I've been throwing it out there.
13:36Kind of feels like more than just a game because you have Thursday night
13:40football in week four.
13:41It almost buys Deshaun a pass it,
13:44not playing great football again in a lot of ways,
13:46right?
13:46Like you put together one game like last week and another game like
13:49Jacksonville kind of feels like he'd be put in a scenario where week
13:53five turns into week one and week three all over again.
13:56Right?
13:57Yeah.
13:58And then I kind of thought that all along,
13:59like if they weren't going to make the change after week two,
14:02then,
14:02then you were going to have to get through this Thursday night game.
14:04Cause you really just can't make a change on that short week.
14:07That's not really fair to anybody.
14:08That's not fair to Deshaun.
14:09That's not fair to Shador.
14:11That's not fair to the rest of your offense.
14:12Cause you only get one real practice between that Sunday and that Thursday
14:16game on,
14:17and then that's on Tuesday.
14:19So,
14:19and even that's not a real hard practice.
14:22Everything else is just kind of walkthroughs.
14:23So you really can't make that change.
14:25So you're right.
14:26It did sort of buy Deshaun,
14:29you know,
14:29an additional game.
14:30So even if he does struggle on Sunday,
14:32unless you make a change at halftime,
14:34I don't know that you can sit here and justify making that change,
14:38you know,
14:39on a short week.
14:39So now you could do it after that mini buy,
14:42but it would,
14:43it would be tough to do on three days rest.
14:45I damn,
14:46before we let you go,
14:46I wanted to get your opinion on,
14:49what players so far from the Browns roster,
14:51Hey,
14:51he's kind of sparked for you in two weeks and impressed you the most.
14:57It's probably too easy to say Denzel Boston.
14:59So I'll,
15:00I'll go a different way.
15:01And it's just somebody that I mentioned already that I was really bullish on
15:05coming into the season.
15:06And he's lived up to the hype.
15:07I thought Mason Graham was really good as a rookie and he only had half a
15:11sack.
15:11But every time I watched those games and then I go back and rewatch them,
15:15I just saw 94 in the backfield and 94 causing disruption.
15:18And I don't think it's a coincidence that Miles Garrett broke the sack record in
15:22the same year that the Browns brought in some real interior pressure with,
15:26with Mason Graham and Malik Collins.
15:27So for me,
15:29the way that Mason has,
15:30has started here getting two sacks,
15:32you know,
15:32a sack in each game,
15:33he drew a couple,
15:34drew a couple of holding penalties on,
15:36on Sunday.
15:36He continues to be really disruptive.
15:38And now that disruption is,
15:40is turning into real production.
15:42So I think I'm going to circle him as the guy that,
15:45that has really stood out to me.
15:46All right,
15:47Dan,
15:47we always appreciate the time.
15:48Always good to talk to you.
15:49And we'll talk to you next week.
15:51And hopefully you're talking about a two and one Browns team.
15:54Yep.
15:55Sounds good.
15:55I'll talk to you then.
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