00:00Alright, let's bring on Zagura. He's in, uh, I think he's in Chicago. You in Chicago?
00:05That's right, Monfrere. In the Windy City.
00:08Alright, hold on. Where was dinner last night?
00:10Don't ask him that.
00:11Oh, I'm sorry. If he wants to answer it, he can answer it.
00:14Uh, very good Italian place, like Trey...
00:19Italia? Hold on, one second. Trey Dita. It was very good.
00:23Alright, now...
00:24Very good.
00:25You lost Limey because he's got to look at the menu now for the rest of the interview.
00:28Uh, you should, and I would recommend it.
00:31Alright, we're going to start quarterbacks, and then we're going to obviously work our way out.
00:34What do you need to see from Deshaun Watson yesterday to feel...
00:37Or tomorrow, not yesterday.
00:38What do you need to feel, uh, see from Deshaun Watson tomorrow to feel better about the quarterback position of
00:43the Cleveland Browns?
00:44I just want him to come out, and I want him to be efficient.
00:47I want him to operate well.
00:48You know, we're not going to see a lot of the starters of the Chicago Bears.
00:51We are going to see a lot of the starters of the Cleveland Browns, and so...
00:55I think he should be moving the ball.
00:57I want to see the ball come out on time.
00:58I want to see the ball be accurate to all levels of the field.
01:01I want to see him look comfortable in the pocket.
01:03I want to see him be able to show what he can do a little bit with his legs.
01:06But, you know, I think the expectation should be that he comes out and looks good and completes a high
01:12percentage of his passes,
01:13and that the offense moves the ball up and down in field and puts the ball into the end zone.
01:18And, Nathan, overall, did you notice, or what were the key differences between the two quarterbacks, both for good and
01:26for bad?
01:26I know Munkin kind of talked about arm strength on one side of things, getting guys in and out of
01:31the huddle on the other side of things.
01:33Consistency is what they're looking for.
01:35But what did you notice?
01:36You were there every day.
01:37Yeah, I would say that, you know, before the ball is snapped, Deshaun has been the most consistent performer in
01:44that side of it.
01:45I think that once the ball has been snapped, Shador had been the most consistent performer in that regard.
01:51But I would say over the course of the last week, starting, and now it'll be by the time he
01:55takes the field on Saturday, it'll be 10 days.
01:58The last 10 days, Deshaun Watson has been really good.
02:00And he's kind of got that bounce in his step back.
02:04He's throwing the ball very, very well to all three levels.
02:07I think his arm looks very strong.
02:09He's throwing a tight spiral.
02:10Now we've got spin rate, thanks to Sam Darnold.
02:12But I thought he's looked very good throwing the ball.
02:14He's looked confident.
02:15He's looked decisive.
02:16And he's really been able to kind of drill the ball in there.
02:19Shador has improved on everything pre-snap over the course.
02:24Just like Deshaun has improved post-snap, Shador has improved pre-snap.
02:27And Shador Sanders throws a great deep ball.
02:30He just has a knack for being very accurate on those balls down the field.
02:35Throws them a little bit like Jeff Blake for those people who have been watching the National Open.
02:39Oh, hell yeah.
02:41Gets a little bit of that moon ball, gets it up high, drops it into the bucket.
02:45We saw the throw that he made to Isaiah Bond last week, or at the end of practice, I want
02:49to say a couple days ago, it feels like last week.
02:52It was one of the best balls of camp.
02:54Great catch by Isaiah Bond, who's had a very nice camp as well.
02:57But both of these guys, I think, have given you reason for optimism in terms of their ability to hit
03:03chunk plays and move this offense.
03:05I think the guy that's going to ultimately win this job will be the one that gets them in and
03:09out of the huddle.
03:09And that while mixing in those chunk plays, the layups can be layups.
03:13Because in the National Football League, as a quarterback, those layups have to be layups.
03:17That's kind of the bread and butter of your whole operation.
03:19And when you are able to hit chunk plays on top of that, that's when you become really a good
03:23quarterback in this league.
03:25The best part about it for whoever ends up being the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns is that the
03:29supporting cast around them is as good as it has been in a long, long time.
03:33I mean, with Boston and Concepcion and with Judy and with Bond and with Fannin and with Judkins and Samson
03:40shown a lot catching the ball out of the backfield, which he was very good at last year.
03:43Where you've got to feel good about the skill talent around the quarterbacks for the first time, probably since we,
03:49you know, you go back to when we had Nick Chubb and Jarvis and Odell.
03:53This is, and this is the first time we've had that kind of a group around them.
03:57All right.
03:57So what's Shador got to do then other than getting in and out?
04:01It's the same thing.
04:02You've got to make good decisions with the football and you've got to show the ability to win at all
04:07three levels.
04:07And for Shador, one of the things that I would say that has impressed me so much about what he's
04:12done is, you know, last year, you go back and think about his preseason debut in Carolina, where he made
04:17a bunch of flash plays.
04:18Everybody's excited, but there was a lot, also some stuff drifting out of the pocket and trying to do too
04:24much, not really playing the position and being where the offensive lineman expected.
04:29He's gotten so much better with standing tall in the pocket, climbing the pocket.
04:33So for Shador, it's really the same thing.
04:35You need to operate this offense efficiently.
04:37I'm going to say next week, my guess is the Buffalo Bills, after having one day of joint practice, are
04:43probably not going to play starters.
04:45Shador is going to have the benefit of playing with the starters.
04:47So it's going to be similar to what Deshaun is.
04:49Those balls got to be moving up and down the field.
04:51It's got to be efficient and it's got to be explosive and it's got to end with, you know, putting
04:55touchdowns and points on the board.
04:56Should I read in anything that Shador Sanders is starting that second preseason game after the joint practice?
05:03No.
05:04No.
05:05I mean, I got the chance to sit down with Todd Munkin and I would urge everybody who has not
05:09heard it to listen to my interview with Todd from the first edition of the Todd Munkin show.
05:14But I got to spend quite a bit of time with him.
05:17I can tell you definitively, do not read anything into it.
05:20This is very much a competition.
05:22This is very much open.
05:24He has not made up his mind and has not tipped his hand if somebody is even in the lead
05:29to that matter.
05:30I think this is wide open.
05:31And I think these games are more important than people might realize because so much goes into it.
05:38And yes, there's hours of the meetings and in the meeting rooms and the film and all of that.
05:43And then, of course, the training camp practices.
05:46But think about the pressure on this.
05:48You know, you're Deshaun Watson.
05:49And that's why I think this is going to be kind of captivating TV or, in my case, captivating radio
05:54to listen to because this is probably as much pressure as Deshaun Watson has felt in a long time.
06:00The same will be likely true for Shadur Sanders.
06:02You – this is your audition.
06:05This is your chance to go out there and say, I should be the starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns
06:10in 2026.
06:11I think it's going to be fascinating.
06:13I think both of these guys are going to rise to the occasion.
06:16And that would be a wonderful situation being where they both play really, really well.
06:19But you're Deshaun.
06:21You have the first crack at it on the road.
06:23Let's see what happens.
06:25What's the biggest thing you're watching other than QBs?
06:31That's a good question.
06:32I would say with the starting lineup, the thing that I would be watching the most with the starting lineup
06:37is the offensive line.
06:40What's happening at right guard, that's the one battle that's still open.
06:43But beyond that, how do Fano and Howard look at the tackle positions?
06:47How's Elton Jenkins, who's a two-time footballer, but as a guard who just really started playing center last year,
06:52how does he look at center?
06:53How does Zion look at left guard?
06:55We expect him to be good.
06:56And then kind of what's happening at right guard, whether it's Kevin Jenkins, whether it's Casey Leveson, whether it's Tyree
07:01Phillips, what's happening at that right guard spot?
07:04So I think the offensive line is the most important thing.
07:06And then outside of the starters, the corner depth is probably, in my opinion, the biggest question mark on this
07:15football team.
07:16If Tyson Campbell and Denzel Ward go down right now, I don't know that we have a great answer on
07:23the outside at that position to back them up.
07:25And that's not easy to find.
07:27I don't know that you can just go out and find it, but that's something that has me a little
07:31concerned.
07:31And my guess is, you know, Todd said everybody who's healthy will play.
07:34Tyson hasn't practiced in quite some time, so my guess is Tyson Campbell won't play and that Trey Avery would
07:40start in that spot.
07:41So I think it's a big day for Trey Avery to try to say, no, no, no, I can be,
07:47you know, that fourth corner, that third outside corner.
07:52Nathan, it was a blast from the past this past week on individuals on the defensive line that Andrew Barry
07:59was looking at.
08:00What do you make right now of what that rotation could look like?
08:05And are they kind of in a desperate need here to add bodies?
08:11So is kind of the short answer in terms of a desperate need.
08:15Do they want to add one more, you know, veteran pass rusher?
08:17Absolutely. That's why you saw them entertain Shadevian Clowney.
08:21It's why we saw the Darius Smith took a meeting.
08:23And I think that there's a good chance that Darius Smith does end up back with the Cleveland Browns.
08:27He was a great guy to be around when he was here before.
08:30And I think as a situational pass rusher, he can be very effective.
08:34The end room is in very good hands right now.
08:36Jared versus Alex Wright and then Isaiah McGuire has had a fantastic camp in the last year of his rookie
08:41contract.
08:42Alex Wright has really stepped up his game, become a leader coming off the season with a career high 12
08:46tackles for loss.
08:47And then, you know, obviously what Jared versus brought to the team on the interior.
08:52We'll see. We'll see. Mason Graham. I want to see him take a big leap, right?
08:57He's had a good camp. Mike Paul was having, I think, maybe the Denzel Boston of the defense type of
09:03a camp before he got injured.
09:05And we have not seen him since.
09:07I'm told that he will be back very soon and that is not anything that's going to linger into the
09:11season.
09:12You know, the hope is that Malik Collins will be back soon.
09:14We haven't really seen Kalia Davis much.
09:16And Kalia Davis is the guy who started 17 games for the Niners last year at defensive tackle.
09:21And then you've got Aiden Huntington.
09:22So when you're healthy, you feel good about it.
09:25Sam Kamara in the mix as well.
09:26You're like, OK, that's just six guys that you named.
09:28The problem is, of those six, the only two that we've seen really consistently are Aiden Huntington and, fortunately, Mason
09:35Graham.
09:36So I think we're in a good spot there.
09:38I do think we need to add one more pass rusher.
09:41That's something that they've been focused on kind of all offseason going back to when, you know, they thought A
09:45.J. Epinesa was going to come in and be that guy.
09:47So, yeah, I do think that Z could make a lot of sense there.
09:51I do think he'll add another better pass rusher.
09:52But I think we're in a pretty good spot at defensive tackle, assuming, you know, that we get everybody back
09:58right.
09:59You know, we are spending so much time on diagnosing, you know, what Jared Verse is going to do, how
10:06he's going to look in this defensive scheme.
10:08But what we're not talking about is how different will the scheme look from Jim Schwartz and what, you know,
10:14that had looked at, looked like the last few years.
10:18So from a front perspective, I don't think it's going to look much different.
10:21It is going to be an attack front.
10:23Their job is to get off the field.
10:24And, boy, Jared Verse, when you're at camp, his getoff is outrageous.
10:27And the last day that we were there for practice, he was dominant.
10:32It was a tough day for Spencer Fano, but he fights literally and figuratively, bounced back as the practice went
10:38on.
10:38But from a front standpoint, I don't think it's going to look much different.
10:42Even at the second level, I don't think it's going to look much different.
10:44We're still going to see, you know, three safeties, Grant Delphic, get down in the box, Emmanuel McNeil-Warren, get
10:49down in the box.
10:50Where this defense is going to be different than it was a year ago is kind of in two things,
10:55but it's all really kind of secondary and coverage related.
10:58Number one, last year, you know, we led the league in single high.
11:02We did not.
11:03We were near the bottom of the league in pre-post-snap disguise.
11:07We basically said, look, we play great man coverage.
11:10We're playing single high.
11:11Deal with it.
11:12And we were great at it.
11:14Now, back in Atlanta last year, one of the things the Falcons were near the top of the league in
11:18is disguise, pre- and post-snap.
11:20You're going to see a lot more of that this year.
11:23A lot more.
11:24So you're going to see, and I think you'll see a higher percentage of two high safety looks ultimately once
11:30the ball is snapped than we saw a year ago.
11:32And I think the way that we get into those and what we show pre-snap, post-snap is going
11:36to be very different.
11:37There are a lot of times now where you'll show an all-out blitz, right?
11:42And then we end up dropping out into it, and we can drop into a single high or a two
11:45high.
11:45We can show single high with Hickman back there, but as the ball snap, it's a rotation.
11:49He goes down, and Emmanuel McNeil-Warren goes into that single one.
11:52We show single high.
11:53We end up in two high.
11:54So two high end up in one without somebody coming down to be a robber.
11:57So I think there's going to be a lot more on the back end, and from a coverage standpoint, variation
12:02in what we do, a lot more different in terms of middle field, open middle field, close in what we
12:07do, and then a lot more kind of pre-post-snap disguise than a year ago.
12:10But everything up front is going to look and feel the same, I think, in terms of our guys getting
12:15to the quarterback and the get-off and what they want those defensive linemen to do.
12:18We are not catching.
12:19We are going.
12:20Nathan Zagura joining us here on the Wise Heart Right.
12:23We make it right, Kaka, right hotline.
12:25A lot of quarterbacks had a really good day yesterday in their first preseason games.
12:30Fernando Mendoza was great.
12:32Drew Aller was great.
12:33Will Howard, I know he's a second-year guy, but he was great.
12:36What do you take away?
12:37Because we've been guilty here in this city of getting really excited over preseason performances.
12:43What do you take away from a guy having a very strong preseason performance now?
12:48Nothing.
12:50Nothing at all?
12:52Nothing.
12:52Absolutely nothing.
12:53I mean, we can go back, what was it, three years ago when Kenny Pickett and the Pittsburgh Steelers were
12:58touched on on every single drive they had in the preseason.
13:01And then they didn't get a first down until, like, the fourth quarter against the Niners in the season opener.
13:07So, really, the answer is nothing.
13:08Now, you say, well, how can you say that when you just said how important these preseason games are for
13:11us?
13:12For us, it's about how they respond to the pressure of this moment to me and how they operate and
13:19what we produce.
13:20For us, I think it's important because we don't have a quarterback yet, right?
13:24We're in a quarterback competition.
13:25So, how do you handle it?
13:27Even if it's easy, you know, for example, on a golf course, if you're 100 yards in the middle of
13:30fairway, you say, okay, yeah, that's a lot easier.
13:32The stakes aren't aside.
13:33But if I'm saying I need to see you hit the green, you still have to hit the green.
13:37For people around the league, I don't think it matters all that much.
13:40You know, from a rookie standpoint, like for a Drew Aller, for a Mendoza, it tells you, okay, they've been
13:45in their playbook, they're comfortable, the moment's not too big for them.
13:48But what that means in terms of playing football in the National Football League, I think it tells you very,
13:53very little.
13:53I really do.
13:54And I think we've kind of seen that be proven time and time and time and time again.
13:58Winning in the preseason doesn't matter, as we well know.
14:01So I don't think you gain a whole lot from it, other than maybe it confirms that directionally, like, man,
14:06there was one throw where Mendoza did the play action through that deep kind of in, in the traffic.
14:11You say, okay, his arm is definitely NFL caliber.
14:14That was a great decision.
14:15Great ball.
14:16Ripped it.
14:17That's good.
14:18Aller.
14:18Yeah, we see he's got the ability, which we knew at Penn State, to throw.
14:21He's got good legs.
14:22Okay, confirms that.
14:23But does this mean that any of these people who had good-looking games in the preseason are going to
14:26be successful in the NFL?
14:28Absolutely not.
14:29Nathan, thank you very much.
14:30We'll be listening to you and Andrew and Gerard coming up tomorrow afternoon right here on your flagship home for
14:35Cleveland Browns football, 92.3 The Fan.
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