- 7 weeks ago
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00:00This is the last segment. If you missed it, it'll be up over at 923thefan.com.
00:03And of course, if you missed a moment in the show, you can use the Rewind feature on the Odyssey
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00:12Really good stuff out of Cammie.
00:14And obviously talking a little bit there about just kind of the perception of what the players want,
00:19all working towards one goal.
00:21And I thought this was interesting, right?
00:24It was a topic throughout the week after Deshaun was named the starter.
00:28It is just kind of this point of like, oh, he seems to be well-liked in the locker room.
00:33Are we missing something?
00:34And I think Cammie's answer wrapped it up pretty well.
00:36It's like, I mean, you're trying to work towards one goal.
00:40And yeah, some of the frustration with Deshaun, I would say a chunk of the frustration with Deshaun is,
00:45you haven't performed for me over the last four years, and you're back.
00:49That's not a decision we're very happy with.
00:50The off-the-field stuff obviously just piles on top of that.
00:53For some people, it's a starting point.
00:56And Cammie was right, and I think ended off that answer kind of talking about the point that Todd had
01:00brought up
01:01and probably a fair one that winning cures most.
01:03It might not cure all, but it cures most of this.
01:07But I think we're also in a spot where Deshaun probably is liked in the locker room, at least enough.
01:13If not liked, he's at least respected in the locker room as a starting quarterback.
01:17The teammates are going to go out there.
01:19I imagine there's probably a handful of teammates, if not a majority of them, that agree with the decision.
01:23Deshaun should be our starter if it came down to him and Shador.
01:26That's great. That's fantastic.
01:28I also don't think fans care, and I don't think fans should care.
01:32Congratulations. He's liked in the locker room.
01:34The guys wanted him to be the starting quarterback.
01:36There's so much of this that's just not about what Denzel Boston, Casey Concepcion, or anybody else in that roster
01:42thinks of it.
01:43This is a separation.
01:45There's the outside and the inside of it.
01:47If you're the Browns, you can't allow the outside to infiltrate the inside.
01:51You can't allow that to seep into the locker room.
01:54And as every NFL team says, we're not going to let it happen.
01:57And I watch every single year.
01:59Every NFL team basically has no choice but the fact that it does happen.
02:03That's what happens in post-game press conferences, right?
02:05The outside does, to some degree, become the inside.
02:08The media does have to ask the hard questions.
02:10And if they walk in there at week three and all the fans rain down a booze on Deshaun Watson
02:15throughout the game,
02:16it doesn't matter who's standing at the podium.
02:18Somebody's going to be asked about it because, hey, we do want to know how you feel about it.
02:22Fans want to know how you feel about it.
02:23And we can't just act like it didn't happen.
02:26We can't just sit there and go, oh, well, you know, we can't ask Denzel about that.
02:29Denzel doesn't care about that.
02:31It's like, no, Denzel's a part of the team.
02:34He's a part of the offense that's out there getting booed.
02:36I feel like I kind of have to ask him about it.
02:37So, again, there's that part of it.
02:42The outside almost always becomes, you know, infiltrated onto the inside because of things like that.
02:48And, again, I say, whether or not Deshaun is liked, respected, or everybody in that locker room agrees with the
02:54decision,
02:55I don't expect fans to care, and I don't think they should.
03:01That's great.
03:01He might be the internal best option.
03:03That's where so much more of this, it's not even, I don't think,
03:07necessarily a booing for Todd Bunkett in making the decision.
03:10It's a booing of, yes, Deshaun, and of organizational failure.
03:14Of paying a guy $230 million, trading away three first-round picks,
03:18and still being left to pay the consequences five years later.
03:22Like, yeah, and Kami brought up, like, the fans know the history.
03:25They have two reactions when they're sitting in their seats, and that's cheer or that's boo.
03:29Those are the two things in which they can get a collective, you know, kind of answer to,
03:34here's how you feel about what's happening right now.
03:37It's one of the only ways to communicate as a fan base, other than, obviously, we have social media and
03:41stuff like that now,
03:42but that doesn't drive the message home.
03:45That is obviously, you assume, I think, when you throw out a tweet or a post on social media,
03:51yeah, the Browns aren't seeing that.
03:53Nobody's getting that point.
03:54Jimmy Haslam's not getting that point across because I post something on social media.
03:58But everybody can get the point across when you're sitting on local or national television,
04:04and you can hear the boos.
04:05The players can hear the boos.
04:06Jimmy, sitting in the stadium in his suite, can hear the boos.
04:09You get the message across, and I think that whatever way fans feel is the way that they should react.
04:14I disagree with you.
04:16I think there are certain people in this town that ownership and the front office do keep a keen ear
04:22out
04:22for, and if it's enough of a backing, they have to pay attention.
04:29And I think that this ownership group, more specifically, what was it, a couple months back,
04:34he tried to tell us he understands how the fans feel, and then he makes this decision months later.
04:39So I think they try their hardest to get a read on the room.
04:44They're just really bad at reading the room.
04:46I have to agree with that.
04:48They may be top five ever in ownership reading the room ability.
04:55They really struggle at it from just even the beginning of the Deshaun Watson tenure to now.
05:01They just really struggle at it.
05:05I think there's a part of that, too, that they understand the backlash.
05:08I think they knew this wasn't going to be a popular decision.
05:11Deshaun might have been surprised by the boost.
05:13I don't think anybody in that front office was like,
05:16Deshaun's getting a warm welcome when he comes in on Sunday.
05:18There's no way you can have that perception and that idea of it.
05:21Yeah.
05:21No, no.
05:22You want to know why?
05:22I think they had the great idea that we're not going to announce our quarterback who's starting on Sunday.
05:29We're going to try to see if we can let this blow over.
05:32I think that was their idea of reading the room.
05:34Instead of just coming out and being an adult and saying, you know what, I'm going to give you the
05:38bad news right now.
05:40You'll get it out your way.
05:41You can get your Sunday night off on a terrible start, and hopefully you can start off better Monday morning.
05:45But they tried to read the room Sunday and say, oh, our idea is really going to be bad.
05:52And then it was even worse than what they expected, partly because of what happened previously on that Saturday.
05:57But I definitely don't think that they assumed it was going to be this intense and this loud.
06:03I thought it was – they think – I thought that it was going to be a small vocal minority,
06:09and it turned out to be like an overwhelming like 42% that was like, hey, bro, we don't like
06:13that.
06:13It was probably more than that, honestly.
06:15It was probably like 82% of fans.
06:17I had probably somewhere close to like 90 that were like, hey, that's not what we wanted, especially after Saturday.
06:22If it was going to be 75, it was up to 90.
06:26I mean, listen, like they're bad at it.
06:28And I think that the Browns – listen, I don't know that they knew that they were naming Deshaun Watson
06:32the starter.
06:34I do think that there was a piece of them that throughout this process have obviously loosened up the idea
06:38that it could potentially happen
06:40and have tried to read the room throughout that, and I don't think the response has been good throughout.
06:45I think ultimately when you land on a football decision, you land on the football decision, though, at the end
06:48of the day.
06:49If Todd thinks Deshaun's going to be the starter, if we saw what we saw on the field,
06:53which I think through training camp and most of those other things, like on the field product, it was at
06:57least a close race.
06:58You don't have to agree that Deshaun won, but it was at least a battle.
07:02If they land on, hey, it was close, Todd wants to go with Deshaun, we know the backlash is coming.
07:06Hey, there's really nowhere else to go.
07:07Like, we tried to set fans up for the fact that this was going to be a possibility, hoping to
07:12neutralize some of that.
07:13But I think Deshaun probably threw a little bit of a wrench in their plans, because I have to imagine,
07:17and the postgame on Saturday, the PR team in the front office was like, hey,
07:23why don't you go out and tell everybody you don't understand the booing, you weren't expecting it,
07:27and that you have a problem with the fact that you're injured or injury.
07:30That should make everything go over by the fact we have to be a quarterback by Monday.
07:33I think Deshaun maybe didn't help that out either.
07:36We got to see two quarterbacks look startable, playable, startable at least in a preseason, I should say.
07:43Not startable in week one, but playable.
07:46So a lot of quarterback competition and conversation happening.
07:49I did want to go to just sort of where we're at with the wide receivers.
07:54I asked Cammie about Luke Floria, who, I mean, I think after yesterday,
07:59and I understand preseason games and we've seen preseason darlings walk through here
08:03and not make the team, and that's just the way it goes.
08:06From everything I've heard about Luke, from the connection that he has with Shadour,
08:10now we clearly see there's also a good enough connection there with Dylan.
08:14I don't know how you're leaving that guy off this team right now,
08:16and when it comes to the competition, like, if you kept five wide receivers, I see it.
08:21Like, if it just stops after Tylan Wallace, then I get it.
08:24You keep six wide receivers on this team.
08:27I like Malachi Corley.
08:28I think you can do a lot.
08:29I think you've pretty much replaced how Kevin wanted to use him with Casey Concepcion,
08:33and he's going to take over that role.
08:36Malachi sure might provide some special teams.
08:38That's also why you have Tylan Wallace on the team.
08:41I mean, just make sure nobody scoops up Luke for a guy that's actually developing
08:45and looks pretty good and is consistently finding himself in the right spot,
08:48albeit, again, against second and third teamers,
08:51but it's a guy you got something working with.
08:53It looks decent.
08:54Might as well be on the roster for this year.
08:56Jake, man, I hate to disagree with you, baby.
08:59You're going Malachi Corley?
09:00I think I am going to go Malachi, baby, because I like his versatility.
09:04I like the fact that he can do more things.
09:06He's been actually able to be on the field and do multiple things outside of this lineup
09:11as a receiver and go.
09:12Now, it is great that Florida has this connection with basically any quarterback that's on the team.
09:17He's adaptable.
09:18He knows how to make himself open.
09:20He catches the ball, but the fact that he is simply nothing else but a wideout,
09:27I need you to be able to do a few more things because, I mean, when you're at the back
09:32end,
09:32I need you to have value in more than just one thing,
09:36and I'm not sure if he has anything else that he can provide that we've seen
09:42outside of just being an, I would say, an above-average pass catcher.
09:47Yeah, I mean, I think he's looked really good,
09:49and, like, hey, listen, I understand how that's usually how the back end of the wide receiver room
09:53ends up looking.
09:55I mean, Malachi Corley, sure, like, he could return some punts here and there.
10:00The dude basically doubled his totals from receiving yards last year as he did as a rusher.
10:04Like, he's got 14 catches in the two years of his career right now.
10:08He's not stuck anywhere.
10:09He's a third-round draft pick.
10:11I think you have more going there with Luke right now.
10:13But, obviously, this conversation goes deeper, right?
10:16Like, that's just one of the things Michael and I were talking about it off the air
10:20over the last couple of days, and I've been sitting here being like,
10:24like, I'm already kind of pushing that.
10:26We did it in Blind Tier Tuesday earlier this week.
10:30That's got to solidify it for me.
10:31Like, Tylan Wallace is one of your, you know, special team guys.
10:35Casey's going to be a special teams guy.
10:36You have options.
10:37Luke can play a little special teams.
10:39Hasn't done much in the NFL.
10:40But, hey, he's done it, you know, dating back to high school.
10:43He's done it in college.
10:45I think he got options there.
10:46But, again, this conversation goes deeper.
10:49And it's more specifically, I still can't wrap my head around the idea that there are
10:55people sitting around right now thinking that Jerry Judy is not safe to make this roster.
11:01I mean, even, I mean, before we just watched them, you know, cut Cedric Tillman.
11:06Because maybe that plays into this a little bit.
11:07But, obviously, you know, Judy's going to be on the last year of his deal right now.
11:11I don't see him, you know, coming back for 2027 by any means.
11:17But, in terms of just being a guy on this roster that can play right now,
11:20I don't think it's much of a conversation.
11:23Judy is, at worst, your third best wide receiver.
11:25And he's going to be on the field consistently.
11:27They've talked nothing but positively about him.
11:30What do you gain from getting rid of Jerry Judy in this exact moment,
11:33besides maybe a little bit of cap flexibility?
11:36I don't think the Browns, at this very point in time, should be all that worried about the cap.
11:41Although, I've heard Zedaria Smith talk about the money not working.
11:44And maybe we should have just ponied up and paid a guy like Zedaria before the Falcons started calling.
11:48Maybe we should have figured that one out.
11:51But, when it comes to the guys who are going to make this roster,
11:54like, when we're having the conversations of it's Malachi Corley versus Luke Floria,
11:58guys, you don't have a ton of room to work around.
12:00And there's still going to be plenty of opportunity for Casey and Denzel.
12:04There's going to be plenty of opportunity for Jerry.
12:06This team is going to have to throw the football.
12:07I mean, they're going to want to run the football with as bad as I expect the offense to be,
12:13which is better than last year, but still not good.
12:15They're going to find themselves down and forced into positions to have to throw the ball.
12:19You are going to need the best passable pass catchers that exist to be on the field.
12:25And Jerry is absolutely one of those guys.
12:27You do not start thinking into the future too early.
12:29And I think the presence of Jerry is enough to probably make this conversation just go away.
12:37To help out, you know, if you want young receivers, young guys to get opportunities,
12:41like Harold Fannin obviously is a part of this equation.
12:44The best way to get them opportunities is to still surround them with not only veterans,
12:47but guys who are going to take attention away from them.
12:50Jerry still remains as one of those guys.
12:52It's like one bad year from a receiver that basically just stemmed off of a little bit of his media
12:59press conferences,
12:59but more so off of they paid that guy.
13:02What?
13:03Oh my goodness.
13:04And now he's like the 30th highest paid wide receiver in the NFL.
13:07And it's not a big deal, but all of the reaction from Jerry basically stemmed off of that.
13:13And obviously a lackluster performance in Denver.
13:17But I really don't know what even the conversation is.
13:20Like Jerry is not the seventh best wide receiver on this team.
13:23As I mentioned, the contract's not all the way there.
13:26And it was to the point that Mary Kay was on the station yesterday
13:29and had to be asked whether or not she felt Jerry Judy was a safe space
13:34to be solidified and locked into this roster when cutdowns come on Sunday.
13:37Jerry Judy's safe.
13:38But once again, I think that Jerry and Deshaun,
13:41they are really going to need to rep it over and over and over
13:44because the connection is not good enough in practice.
13:47And quite frankly, the connection between Deshaun and a number of those guys
13:51is not good enough yet.
13:52And now you've got Isaiah Bond, who's in the concussion protocol.
13:55And hopefully for everyone, he'll get out of there soon
13:57because they've got three weeks to get their act together.
14:00And I do think that I know they had to do it.
14:02I know Todd has explained over and over and over
14:05why they had to do this quarterback competition,
14:06but it didn't help whoever was going to be the starter.
14:10It didn't help Deshaun especially because he was already rusty.
14:13He's already been out of football for two years.
14:15And now he's going to be trying to show that he's got great natural timing
14:20and rhythm with guys that he is just learning their nuances and their tendencies.
14:26And so I think he is behind the eight ball a little bit
14:29and they're all just going to have to deal with that very quickly.
14:31So obviously you get the Deshaun stuff there on top of it as well.
14:34And I would agree with Mary Kay that clearly Jerry and Deshaun,
14:38I wouldn't say that the connection's fantastic right now.
14:41I wouldn't say that as we geared up and got ready for this thing in 2024,
14:47the connection was looking all that great either.
14:50They do need more time together.
14:51They do need to establish it.
14:52But I mean, again, are you taking that chance that Jerry's going to establish it
14:57with Deshaun Watson?
14:58Are you taking that chance that Isaiah Bond is going to establish it
15:01with Deshaun Watson?
15:02I think it's pretty clear for the Browns.
15:05Again, it's this narrative that Jerry Judy is basically a trash-ass wide receiver.
15:11I'm not saying he's a wide receiver one.
15:12I'm not saying he's a guy that I would build my franchise around.
15:15But there needs to be a little respect where respect is due.
15:18He is still more than usable.
15:20Like, bad year in the NFL.
15:22He had, what, 600 yards last year?
15:25Like, again, it's not good.
15:26It's not a positive.
15:27It's about 300 more than Cedric Tillman had in his career.
15:31It's about 580 more, 520 more maybe than Malachi Corley's had at any point in his career.
15:39And, again, no knock to Luke Flory.
15:41I was just talking very positively at him in the beginning of the segment.
15:43It's about 600 more yards than Luke's had in his career.
15:46Like, he still leaps and bounds ahead of the guys that he's competing for on this roster.
15:51And, yeah, they might be younger guys.
15:52They might be guys that fit the timeline a little bit more.
15:54If the Browns have proven to you that the timeline is not the only thing that matters.
15:59Like, Denzel Ward is still on this team.
16:00Grant Delpit's still on this team.
16:03Lee Collins is still, like, they're still trying to put together a roster that has some functionality to it.
16:08Especially on that offensive side of the ball where you don't have veterans almost anywhere outside of Deshaun playing quarterback
16:13right now.
16:15First impressions go a long way.
16:18And his first impressions with us.
16:21First impression was a 1,200 plus yard season.
16:25Yeah, but.
16:25In a bad year where they won three games, but it was a 1,200 plus yard season.
16:29He won three games.
16:30So, I mean, what did it.
16:30And then the next season, right?
16:32He just was kind of like.
16:34He was that trash ass wide receiver.
16:36You just explained.
16:38He wasn't good.
16:38I think it's a matter of how he came off.
16:41Steve Smith really didn't do him no favors.
16:44And I think that.
16:45Either did Mark Schlereth or Denver or anybody else.
16:47And I think that when you.
16:49Sometimes you can go to a new place and it's a breath of fresh air.
16:54Sometimes coming to Cleveland is not a breath of fresh air because we are so.
17:00High strung for consistent offensive play.
17:04That if you're not immediately impactful.
17:07Odell Beckham got here.
17:09Immediately.
17:09At least we couldn't point to him as it being his fault.
17:12Jarvis Landry got here.
17:13Immediately.
17:14We couldn't point to it being his fault.
17:17Jerry Judy.
17:17We won three games.
17:19What were we doing?
17:20And granted, our quarterback situation was terrible.
17:23But he's not.
17:25He's not done anything that stands out in your mind that says, oh, I remember the 60 yard play.
17:30The 1,200 yards is nice, but there's nothing.
17:33The dude had like a 300 plus yard game in Denver.
17:35I don't remember it at all.
17:37You're sure.
17:39Memorable.
17:39Memorable less.
17:40I could.
17:42Wasn't that.
17:42Had Jameis not thrown two pick sixes in that game.
17:44Would have been a 300 plus yard game for Jerry and a win.
17:47Or 200 or whatever he put up that game.
17:49It was something ridiculous.
17:50But it would have been a win.
17:51I mean, could have, would have, should have.
17:53You know what I'm saying?
17:53If my tires didn't go out, I'd have saved 400 bucks last week.
17:57But still.
17:58Okay, but this is the thing.
17:59Like, that's not.
18:00There are things that Jerry has done that has not helped his own cause.
18:03I think the majority have not really been Jerry's own fault.
18:06Other than not playing fantastic.
18:08That has been the bigger issue of everything.
18:10Is that Jerry has not been fantastically great.
18:13But it's been everything else on top of it.
18:15Like, people will talk about Terrell Pryor in this town.
18:17Like, he is a guy.
18:18You remember that 1,000 yard season from Terrell Pryor?
18:20Like, yeah, we guys, we weren't winning games.
18:22Like, they stunk.
18:23He was at least a bright beacon of light in a pit of darkness.
18:28But that's what.
18:29Jerry Judy does not come off like a beacon of light.
18:31He does not come off like a beacon of light.
18:33But I still think it's people just latching onto the contract and not being happy with it.
18:35Which, you're in your fairness to not be happy with the contract.
18:38Doesn't mean the guy's not making the team.
18:40He's here.
18:40Like, whether you like it or not.
18:41He's on the roster this year.
18:43And I don't think that's changing.
18:44Maybe they trade him by the deadline.
18:46But come week one, I guarantee you Jerry Judy will not only be on the roster.
18:50First play of the game, he'll be lined up on the field.