00:00I've just never been more confident that Shador is going to be the starting quarterback for the Browns,
00:04and specific to the Deshaun thing.
00:05Are you really? You're really that more confident?
00:07Yeah.
00:08Oh, no. So as good of a day as he had and as bad of a day as Deshaun had,
00:11I still remain where I just can't confidently say I think Shador is going to win this battle,
00:17and it's not because of anything that Shador would have done.
00:19I think Deshaun is playing his way out of the quarterback battle.
00:23I hope so.
00:23Which to me is as good as Shador taking the quarterback battle.
00:26I mean, we all kind of said that we thought it would go that way,
00:29where Deshaun would just basically not show anything,
00:31and then it would be pick after pick after pick,
00:34and they wouldn't be able to justify it enough.
00:35It's just listening to Munkin and some of the comments that he makes,
00:38I don't think this is the plan that they had.
00:41I think Munkin is very measured on this.
00:44He's not going to write a guy off.
00:45Again, they're not going to anoint Shador as the starter
00:49until it absolutely makes sense to do it,
00:52until they have as few doubts as you possibly can have.
00:55But, you know, for all the people saying,
00:58well, it's practice, interceptions don't matter.
01:01No, they do when it's a reoccurring theme.
01:03When you reoccurring, you know, oh, he's a slow starter.
01:05Well, we're into week two of the camp.
01:07How does he look now?
01:08Well, now we're getting pads on,
01:09so we're starting to get a little bit more.
01:10You know, there's a lot of people like Coach Riz
01:13that they don't even want to judge this stuff until you get the pads on.
01:15And listen, even Munkin the other day talking about, you know,
01:18hey, we're only about halfway into the installs.
01:20Get all of that.
01:21But we finally have a quarterback that won the day,
01:25that went against the Ones, and it happened to be Shador.
01:27You cannot help but look at that as a great sign.
01:30And if you're like me and you don't ever want to see Deshaun play
01:33starting quarterback again for the Cleveland Browns,
01:35you cannot dismiss the interceptions just because, I don't know,
01:40Twitter might be mean to you or something like that.
01:42Whatever reason for, like, hey, we're going to be measured about how –
01:45no, he's thrown a butt-ton of interceptions.
01:47That should matter.
01:48We can't just explain those away because it, I don't know, benefits the Browns.
01:51Well, and we get to knock down that narrative that was starting to build
01:54of the idea of, like, oh, well, anytime you're up against the one defense,
01:56of course you're going to struggle.
01:58And people were using that as some sort of weird excuse in the meanwhile.
02:01So, again, it was a good sign, all things considered.
02:03I like that your interpretation of it is that Shador is grabbing this thing
02:07and running with it, even if Deshaun is falling flat on his face.
02:10Because I feel like there's a lot of other people that are making the suggestion
02:12that Shador is doing nothing to grab it,
02:15and Deshaun is just falling flat on his face, and that's why.
02:17Oh, no, it'd be so bad if the defense was – you know,
02:20if they weren't making any plays and we were just scoring too many touchdowns.
02:23Oh, really?
02:23Okay.
02:24So what Deshaun's really telling you is he's thinking about the feelings
02:27of the defense.
02:28That's right.
02:28And maybe subconsciously giving them interceptions.
02:32When I think Deshaun Watson, I always think of careful of other people's feelings.
02:35I've always thought, yeah, that we've had nothing in the last seven to eight years
02:40that would make you think otherwise.
02:41No, yeah, always on top of that.
02:43Always very considerate.
02:45No, it's interesting to me.
02:47Like, I understand that, you know, there are interceptions in practice.
02:51One of the common rebuttals with this conversation is,
02:53well, you don't know what they're being asked to do.
02:55I do know they're being asked to not turn the damn ball over.
02:59To not throw it into the defender's hands.
03:00You see that similar jersey there?
03:03Don't throw it to them.
03:04That actually would be funny if one day they're like,
03:05Denzel needs practice.
03:06It's the interception drill.
03:08Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:08Can you just throw him a couple?
03:09Like, he just needs more practice.
03:10He got one interception last year.
03:12We paid him a lot of money.
03:13We need more interceptions from Denzel.
03:14Just make it look real.
03:16Make it look good.
03:16And just do that.
03:17And I just, it's like, listen, if this was a normal year,
03:21which it will never be with the Browns until they start winning again,
03:23but if it was just a normal year,
03:26we're having a different conversation about the interceptions.
03:29Deshaun is in an immediate quarterback battle with Shador,
03:33and he's also trying to show that his arm is going to be functional this year.
03:40We've already got the arm fatigue comments from back in OTAs,
03:43and if he's still trying to figure out touch,
03:46I'm not trying to make it the end-all be-all.
03:48This is significant.
03:49We're looking for any sort of clues, any sort of anything in this.
03:54Deshaun continuing to turn the ball over.
03:56However, if this continues once you get on the other side of installs,
04:01guys, at some point you can start to count these,
04:04even if we're not going to count individual days.
04:06And what happened the last time we saw him come back
04:07from not playing in a game for 730 days,
04:10when he came back in the Houston game week 11 off of his suspension,
04:14the very first time you ever watched him in a Browns uniform,
04:16we watched him have warm burner after warm burner after warm burner.
04:20It was consistently in the ground 10 feet in front of players,
04:23and it's looking to be the same exact thing.
04:26Now, we went out there Friday, and I told you.
04:29I mean, the consistency was not there, obviously,
04:31but I really thought his arm was strong.
04:34I watched him have enough throws.
04:35I watched him throw enough deep passes.
04:37He was throwing the ball way further down the field
04:39than Dylan Gabriel was possibly dreaming of doing it.
04:42It's just it was all over the place.
04:44I see.
04:44Now that Dylan might be a threat again,
04:46you're going on the offensive about Dylan.
04:48I just think the Dylan thing is wild.
04:50We'll get into it later, but it is wild to me.
04:53As far as I'm concerned,
04:54he hasn't thrown a ball more than 20 yards in these practices,
04:57but that's fine.
04:57You know who says you need to do that in the NFL?
04:59He's throwing it deeper than what he did with Stefanski.
05:01That is true.
05:02He's not just throwing to the line of scrimmage.
05:03Baby steps.
05:04Yeah.
05:04Count your dubs there, Dilly.
05:06Oh, wait, wait, wait.
05:07Does he have to – is it baby steps because he's got little Dylan legs?
05:11Yeah, that's probably.
05:11He's a tiny little guy.
05:13It's hateful, but I signed up for that.
05:15Now, we are, of course, talking about the latest on the quarterback derby.
05:19I want to make it as clear as I can.
05:21Again, I'm not trying to tell you that the interceptions are the only thing that matter.
05:25And I am – I think we all have to leave wiggle room for the fact that there are –
05:30there's context missing from this conversation.
05:33But because it has been the one consistent thing in this quarterback battle, I don't trust anyone today that's like,
05:40it's a nothing burger.
05:41I'm not telling you it's an everything burger.
05:42It's probably right there in the middle.
05:44It does matter.
05:46It doesn't matter at all, and it doesn't matter nothing.
05:48Well, a guy with accuracy issues has accuracy issues in basically what's supposed to be the easiest part in the
05:53easiest setting is a problem.
05:55I don't know how it couldn't be.
05:56Now, while we talk about Deshaun Watson's too many interceptions in camp, Shador looking good against the ones on Saturday.
06:05Off to a good start already today, by the way.
06:07Yeah, was it the Concepcion pass?
06:09Yeah, deep pass to Concepcion.
06:10Yeah.
06:11That's what you like to see.
06:12I do love – so, again, we're talking about like the theme of interceptions, meaning this has been the case
06:17over multiple days.
06:18You can have that conversation.
06:19And then it'll be like, Shador has one pass to Denzel Boston that people are like, oh, that's a hospital
06:25ball.
06:25Don't like that.
06:26It's like – so, wait.
06:27I can't reference interceptions, which have been going on for Deshaun, all camp.
06:32But you can reference one ball that you thought, mm, I could throw better.
06:36Yeah.
06:37Unfortunately, that's part of the theme with Shador, it feels like.
06:39It's like even in completions, people are still like, it didn't look pretty enough.
06:44It's like, did the guy catch it?
06:45Did he put it where it needed to be?
06:47Speaking of not looking pretty enough, Daryl Ryder was on with him on a pause earlier today.
06:52And consider him unimpressed by the Browns quarterbacks.
06:55Right now, honestly, I wouldn't give the starting job to any of these guys, but this is what they have.
07:00I just – I'm thoroughly unimpressed by the quarterback play in camp so far.
07:05And hopefully it improves as the installation continues, which goes, by the way, until Thursday.
07:12And then Friday the installation is done.
07:14And then I guess it becomes review and then really evaluate what these guys are doing.
07:21I mean, he's not going to give the job to anyone.
07:23I guess you're just going to run the Wildcat.
07:25So wait, so what happened on Friday when we were out in Berea?
07:28Remember, Daryl came by the tent and Coach Riz was like, oh, that great last session by Shador.
07:32What a throw that was.
07:33And then Daryl was like, that throw was amazing.
07:36Yeah.
07:36So didn't he say best throw we've seen?
07:38No, he said it like he was some sort of Broadway star.
07:42Amazing!
07:43And I was like, what?
07:44How did you – why are you screaming at me?
07:46I do want someone to go on the YouTube channel and make JP's face from that.
07:53That's what he did though.
07:54A gif because it was – that was everything I've ever wanted to see you say about any take I've
07:58ever had.
07:59It was just amazing!
08:01And you're like, what happened?
08:03Why are you screaming at me?
08:05Why are you doing this?
08:07Okay, so I –
08:08When he says it like that, you can't help but just – you store that in the brain.
08:11And it was –
08:12You store that one in the brain.
08:13As are many things with Daryl, it was unintentionally hilarious because Daryl was in the middle of doing something else.
08:19It's also like, was he saying it just because Coach Riz then said it so he had to feel like
08:22he had to contribute to the convo for some reason?
08:24I'm not entirely sure.
08:25You never really can be too sure with Daryl.
08:28I guess I just – like I –
08:31All right, so again, it is worth noting that if I'm talking interceptions through what is five days of camp
08:37now, six days of camp,
08:38it's okay for Daryl to say he's unimpressed.
08:42I do think we need to have some distinction, though, between the different quarterbacks.
08:47Like, if Deshaun is playing, quite frankly, bad play, and maybe Shador is just average or adequate,
08:57well, I'll sign up for the average or adequate.
08:59I think just lumping them together and saying you're unimpressed, well, I don't know this thing's built to impress you.
09:05Or is this the type of take you have when you just want to be right at the end of
09:07it?
09:08Ooh, that's interesting.
09:09Yeah, I mean, ultimately what is probably going to come out is either quarterback that does get the job
09:14is not going to end up being a top five quarterback by the time you get to week six, right?
09:18And so the easy take here is I'm unimpressed with all of them, and so then I'll just end up
09:24being right all year long.
09:25And I don't know, maybe Daryl genuinely is just unimpressed, though.
09:27We have to leave that open as well.
09:29He is just telling us what he sees with his eyes and what he's seen there.
09:31He has historically been the guy that told us Dylan Gabriel, and we saw it for ourselves, obviously,
09:36but he was first to the moon, and Dylan Gabriel can't play a lick in practice.
09:40So maybe Daryl's just telling us what he sees, but I do have enough people, it feels like,
09:44that are telling us different things when it comes to Shador.
09:46I just think what I really struggle with is people putting quarterback first here.
09:53And we literally have to because quarterback's the most important position.
09:57It is the most important position that is unresolved at this point.
10:00But what I mean by that is this thing is not set up to impress you.
10:04This is set up to, at least in the very beginning, to have a quarterback run an offense and to
10:10not screw it up.
10:11Like Denzel Boston's going to have to carry more of the load offensively, or whoever your number one wide receiver
10:17is,
10:18then, you know, Jamar Chase is going to have to for Joe Burrow.
10:22Go one step further.
10:23Quinchon Judkins is going to be incredibly crucial to this offense early
10:28as you try and just get this offense to a point of functionality.
10:31The offensive line, all of this is built to try and make the quarterback's job as easy as possible.
10:38So especially if a young guy steps in, he can grow over time, but he's not the straw that stirs
10:45the drink.
10:46So again, I think there's a lack of nuance in what Daryl says.
10:50If I'm just not impressed, there are levels to being unimpressed.
10:53But I also think, like, I don't know that this thing is set up that Shador's going to wow you,
10:57or Deshaun's going to wow you, or Dylan Gabriel, or anyone's going to wow you in this camp.
11:02It's a first camp of a new head coach with a quarterback battle that they're doing their best
11:07to support what likely will be an adequate quarterback, if at all.
11:13Oh, and so what you described right there basically was a game manager in many ways.
11:16Like, just don't turn the ball over, make the easy pass, and then get on with your day.
11:20Take the easy money, right? And so, like, if that's what they're going to end up being, that's fine.
11:24But then when it comes to, like, Deshaun, for instance, throwing all these interceptions,
11:27you are giving us the absolute opposite of what that model should be.
11:31So I do want to say, like, quarterback manager a little bit is overly simplified.
11:36Well, people always think that's a negative. You know, we had Sean Salisbury on last week.
11:39He was, like, the ultimate QB manager, so he's always very defensive about it.
11:42And he'd be like, no, it's not a bad thing.
11:44It's never a bad thing to be a quarterback manager, a game manager.
11:47Like, there's real value in that.
11:48But you look across the NFL, Sam Darnold, I think, is a great example of this.
11:51Sam Darnold, in the playoffs, was asked for one game, essentially, to take over.
11:55The NFC title game, he threw four touchdowns. It was great.
11:57Go look at some of the other games, though.
11:59He wasn't asked to take over in many of them.
12:01And he really wasn't the focal point of the offense in a lot of them.
12:03So I think both Shador and Deshaun, with their hypothetical value,
12:09and I say that because they both have to prove it, right?
12:12But you can take care of the football and make a few plays.
12:15This isn't Lamar in Baltimore, where Lamar has to make so many of the plays happen
12:22because he's a transcendent talent.
12:23He's the engine of the offense, and it's not even a question.
12:27And so, again, I'm not saying what Daryl's saying is wrong, that he's unimpressed.
12:31I'm sure that is true.
12:33And most of the reports are whoever's gone against the ones has not been impressive.
12:38But I think the thing being slept on here is Shador had a really good day on Saturday
12:44against the first-team defense.
12:46That is a sign.
12:48Deshaun throwing a lot of interceptions against the first- and second-team defense.
12:53That is a sign.
12:54These are kind of the little benchmarks here that we can look at.
12:58And because we're looking for clues, I know we don't have the entire context.
13:02These are things that we can look at and go, at least with one player,
13:06there looks to be some positive momentum.
13:07And with another, there certainly looks to be some negative with Deshaun.
13:11Yeah, but you can see how easily this can flip, too.
13:13And that's what's kind of interesting about how many days we have.
13:16You're straightening together two or three good days,
13:18and all of a sudden it feels like the momentum and everything
13:20can all of a sudden change in the conversation, as evidenced by Dylan Gabriel.
13:23Let's do it.
13:23Let's do it.
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