00:00Well, it sure sounds like things are already changing before they even hit the preseason.
00:04And I don't think we should really be that surprised.
00:06Let's consider where Deshaun came from.
00:08He obviously did not play football last year, so he's coming off of a year's worth of rust.
00:13He was not good the last time he played football for the Browns.
00:17So maybe we shouldn't be all that surprised that he's struggling.
00:21And good for Shador.
00:22You know, good news that he's solid, steady, because steady is really all you want.
00:27That's the baseline for quarterback in the NFL.
00:30That is the Jacoby Brissett line.
00:31It's steady, controlled, and you're hearing a lot of the same things out of Arizona during their camp as well.
00:35The offense is very steady with Jacoby.
00:37If the Browns can get that out of Shador and Deshaun is terrible, that's still a victory in my mind,
00:44except for the fact that Deshaun still accounts for a certain chunk of your cap,
00:47which will be largely overstayed for some void years in the future years.
00:51So, look, football is one of the many beautiful sports that you can't hide once you get on the field,
00:58and you have to prove whether you're good or not.
01:00You can't continue to try to fool a fan base once those guys get on the field.
01:05And it sounds like, so far, according to those who have been at camp, and I have not been at
01:09camp,
01:09but paying close attention to those who have been at camp, and I know you guys are at camp,
01:13it sounds like that Deshaun is behind.
01:16Yeah, and so if it stays this way, let's say they give Shador the nod because he just stays consistent,
01:21basically.
01:22Meanwhile, Deshaun has a good throw, then a bad throw, and a good throw, and a bad throw,
01:25and is just wildly inconsistent and takes forever to go and actually throw the ball.
01:29How would you do this?
01:30You have Shador starting.
01:31If you have to move off of Shador at any point, obviously, ideally, he goes all 17.
01:36Do you go to Gabriel, or do you go back to Deshaun and then see if, what,
01:40something's going to look different than it looks so far in camp?
01:43Yeah, I mean, I can't envision a scenario in which Gabriel would end up, you know,
01:49surpassing Deshaun on the depth chart, unless Deshaun is that bad.
01:53I would have thought that, too, but Gabriel's looked really solid in this camp, oddly enough.
01:57Yeah.
01:58And, again, I know you're following this along as well, the same way we are, but, like, we're here.
02:02We're seeing it.
02:03He doesn't look bad.
02:05Right, right.
02:05And, honestly, that's his strength.
02:07I mean, that's why he was ahead of Shador on the depth chart last year under Kevin Stefanski,
02:10because he got the ball out on time.
02:11The problem is that his ceiling is so low physically.
02:14Like, the kid cannot throw the ball down because he just lacks the arm strength.
02:16He's a smaller quarterback to begin with.
02:18I would imagine that he would have to do something relatively extraordinary to, you know,
02:23surpass Deshaun on the depth chart by week one.
02:26But, I mean, if this is a situation you guys are kind of describing,
02:30which is that everything that it seemed the Browns were planning for is not going to according to plan,
02:35then I think all bets are off.
02:37If I had to predict right now, I would still, you know, based on what's happening right now,
02:42if everything stays the same, it would be Shador week one.
02:45It would probably be Deshaun behind him.
02:48It would be Gabriel as emergency third.
02:50I just don't feel like there's that much of a long-term future for Gabriel with this team,
02:55given that he felt like he had a Stefanski pick, and Stefanski is no longer there.
02:58But I could be wrong as well.
03:00It's just that it's training camp, and you want to be optimistic.
03:05And it is optimism season.
03:06There's a lot of reasons to be optimistic with the Browns.
03:08So, I would like steady play out of Shador, and if you can get that out of Shador in this
03:13offense,
03:14that's good for this year.
03:15I still wouldn't put long-term things on it, though, either.
03:18All right.
03:18So, I have been viciously attacked.
03:21I would say ruthlessly attacked, much maligned by one half of the morning show.
03:26So, not the Ken Carman part, but because I have come out and said,
03:32I think the Browns can be better than maybe Vegas thinks they are.
03:36Now, I have said I think they can be a seven, maybe an eight-win team,
03:40and I reference the ease of schedule.
03:43I reference that I think they've made the spot around the quarterback a lot easier.
03:48So, they've taken some of the burden off the quarterback, which I think maybe you're pointing to.
03:52And I don't expect this defense to be a gigantic step back, even though they subtracted Myles Garrett.
03:59And yet, I have been maligned as a homer, as an optimist, training camp goggles, all these sort of things.
04:07Is anything that I've said unreasonable in your opinion, sir?
04:12Well, I think training camp goggles are very real.
04:15It's very common at this point in the process to think that the team that you're watching is going to
04:21be excellent
04:21until they're compared against somebody else.
04:22And you're not comparing them against anybody else at this point, so you have no reference point.
04:26And that's always going to be part of the process.
04:28But one thing I think you're probably overlooking, and this is something that I'm very curious to see
04:32as soon as they take the field of preseason, judging by who they play and who they don't play,
04:36I think there's more value in playing most of these guys because of the value of the reps.
04:40The offensive line, completely rebuilt.
04:43Takes a while for an offensive line to gel.
04:45Most of your successful teams are teams that are expected to find success in an upcoming season.
04:51One of the strengths that will be pointed to is continuity along the offensive line
04:55because it's just really hard to learn how to play next to one guy through one camp.
05:00It just doesn't happen that quickly.
05:01I think that's a big weakness that you might be overlooking there.
05:05And you can play the schedule game as well, and it's a matter of how does the NFC South perform
05:09since that's one of the cross-conference divisions that you get this year.
05:12I think that's the worst division in football, so you have some opportunities to win some games there.
05:16How do you start in the first two weeks?
05:18I think Jacksonville's going to be a very good team.
05:20I think that's a week-one loss.
05:21Can you squeeze out a win in Tampa in week two, or are you coming back home 0-2?
05:26Under a new staff, I think that a lot of what you see in the past can no longer be
05:30used as a reference point
05:31because this is a coach who is putting his own touch on a team and is also trying to prove
05:36himself.
05:38So I think you're going to see more aggression from this team in the way that they approach things
05:42than you have in years past, and maybe that produces a few surprising wins early on.
05:46But I have a hard time seeing them winning eight games.
05:49If I had to put their absolute ceiling, I could maybe say seven, but I'm comfortably sitting in the five
05:54-win range.
05:55Oh, comfortably in the five-win range.
05:56Don't go out on a limb, Nick.
05:58Like, whatever you do, don't put all that credibility on the line.
06:02Safe is comfort.
06:04Yeah.
06:04Oh, all right.
06:05So what do you think that range is, actually?
06:07If you go, what's your low, what's your high?
06:10What kind of range are we dealing with?
06:11Because I can contend that I think the Browns have one of the widest ranges of any team in football
06:15this year.
06:16Yeah, I mean, if I'm going to be optimistic, I could say your high is eight.
06:19Your low is probably four.
06:22I think that they're an improved team from last year to this year.
06:24Their defense is going to have to prove that they can be as good as they were in recent years
06:28without Miles Garrett, without Jim Schwartz.
06:30I'm actually pretty bullish on that side of the ball.
06:32And it's just a matter of can your offense take a step forward and be more competitive than it was
06:36last year?
06:36Because even those games that they won, a lot of them was solely on the back of the defense.
06:39Pittsburgh was one of them.
06:41Green Bay was another one.
06:42So you've got to be more effective on the offensive side of the ball.
06:45It starts at quarterback and it continues with some of the other guys that you've added.
06:48You know, I love the offseason because of what we get in terms of optimism.
06:53And you're adding talent to your team.
06:54You know, our team got better here.
06:56They got better there.
06:56But when you're putting a lot of that responsibility on a rebuild offensive line, on two rookie receivers, it's hard
07:03to project the best possible outcome without seeing it.
07:06So that's why I kind of stay in that range.
07:08All right, Jake.
07:09Jake, our producers here doing on-site engineering.
07:12Jake, I want this audio saved.
07:14And when the Browns win their seventh game, we're going to have Nick Schuch back on so that I can
07:20berate him.
07:20Never happens.
07:21If they only win five, sorry, Nick.
07:22Yeah.
07:22Well, no, I mean, that's a populist take.
07:24Five wins is a populist take.
07:26Hold on here.
07:27I just said your ceiling is eight.
07:28They win seven.
07:29We're still within the range here.
07:31Come on now.
07:32I feel like you can put the onions on the table, friend.
07:36You weren't confident.
07:37You weren't confident enough to say when they win their ninth game.
07:40We'll see, man.
07:40We'll see.
07:41I hope for the best as always.
07:42Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
07:43The burden of proof is on me.
07:44I said seven or eight wins.
07:46Sounds like it.
07:46The burden of proof is on Mr. Five win over there, Nick Schuch.
07:50Well, let's just say I'm taking the median number here.
07:54I don't do math.
07:55As long as we're talking about things that maybe Nick Wilson is potentially overrated,
07:59is he too high on Todd Munkin?
08:01And I'll say, I like the practices right now.
08:03I will fight both of you.
08:04They're completely different than what they used to be.
08:06For me, for my money, I've never seen the guy coach a game.
08:08But I think it's remarkable how many people have just latched on to the idea that Munkin's
08:13awesome when we've never seen him actually coach yet.
08:16And that was not the idea when he landed the job.
08:20JP likes to play a little devil's advocate, huh?
08:22I like a little contrarianism here between a couple of co-hosts here.
08:26Yeah, I'm kind of caught between, not to play the middle portion here, but when they hired
08:32him, I was like, ooh, really?
08:34But I do kind of like the idea that he's a breath of fresh air to a roster that was,
08:38you
08:38know, I mean, a locker room that rated Kevin Stefanski the lowest of any coach, you know,
08:42according to the player voting in the NFL, according to the NFLPA voting last year.
08:45So, look, Munkin's a likable guy, and I think that, you know, there's going to be some bumps
08:51along the way being a first-time coach, but he's also had a lot of time in pretty prominent
08:56roles in NFL and college, and I think that experience is going to benefit him.
09:00If he had a better roster, and I'm just saying this is the worst roster in the league because
09:03it's not, and it continues to improve year after year, if he had a better roster, I'd
09:08probably justify how high Nick Wilson is on Todd Munkin right now.
09:13But you know what?
09:13You need an optimist in the room.
09:15And you need an optimist on August 4th, okay?
09:18Because what else are you going to do?
09:20Say, ho-hum, we're going to win two games and be terrible this year.
09:23That's not a good way to go into a season.
09:24So, yeah, we'll see.
09:26I think I'm probably a little bit higher on him now than I was then.
09:30But, again, you never really know until they take the field and start competing against
09:34other teams.
09:34Bill Homer over here saying seven wins, man.
09:36I'm basically saying Super Bowl, Super Browns over here.
09:39All right, let's look across the AFC North.
09:42I thought it was interesting.
09:44Connor Orr did his picking every single game on the NFL schedule.
09:50And he has the Browns as a five-win team, the Steelers as a six-win team, and then the
09:55Bengals and Ravens into the postseason there.
09:59Do you concur with that assessment of the AFC North for 2026?
10:04You know, it's funny.
10:05I actually had the same exercise, and I did the same thing where I picked every game.
10:08It produced some very wild variance in records.
10:13When you look at the team and then you see the win-loss total by the end of the exercise,
10:17and you're like, wait, there's no way that team only wins that many games.
10:20But I was pretty close to what Connor did.
10:22I had the Browns at four wins when I played the schedule game.
10:24I think they're going to win.
10:25I am starting 0-3.
10:26I think they're going to win one of those games.
10:28So I would probably lean more toward five and 12 now.
10:31And it was a pretty similar result when it came down to the Bengals and the Ravens.
10:36I think that's the top of this division right now.
10:39Steelers are a bit of an unknown.
10:40There's a little bit too much good vibes coming out of Pittsburgh right now with Mike McCarthy
10:44just being in his honeymoon era because he's back in his hometown coaching the team that
10:48he grew up rooting for.
10:48But like, okay, I found my Ravens.
10:50She's here.
10:50I had the Ravens at 12 and five.
10:52I had the Browns at four and 13.
10:54I'm going to adjust at the five and 12.
10:55Give them one of the wins.
10:56Let's say they beat Carolina, who's been absolutely crushed by injury during camp.
11:00And then Cincinnati, I also had a 12 and five.
11:02So yeah, that's where I have them both making the playoffs with records like that.
11:07Pittsburgh, I think, ends up kind of in that Tomlin range, even though he's not there
11:11anymore, which is near 500.
11:12I want to say I had them at eight and nine as I shuffled through some papers and struggled
11:16to find it.
11:17But I think this is a two-team race in this division.
11:19Pittsburgh could make it kind of interesting, but I'm not as high on them as some other people
11:22are.
11:23I had them at eight and nine.
11:24I just found the sheet now.
11:24So I'm pretty close to what Connor is.
11:27I like the Bengals' revamped defensive line.
11:29Obviously, I like Joe Burrow.
11:30I think everyone likes Joe Burrow.
11:32What has you so high, though?
11:33I'm not there at 12 wins, but I'm not too far off, but I want to know why.
11:38Well, first off, Dilton's had a healthy season out of Joe Burrow.
11:41And that's inevitably going to elevate their ceiling by a few games.
11:45I also do really like what they did on a lot of their defensive side of the ball.
11:48Their secondary, despite the fact that they couldn't stop a nose lead and that it continued
11:52to be an issue with this team.
11:53Their secondary is pretty damn strong on paper.
11:56DJ Turner had an incredible second half of last season and really elevated to the next
12:01level where he's one of the better corners in the NFL right now.
12:03It's probably one of those corners that people just don't really know about yet, but they're
12:06going to find out.
12:07But they have a ton of athletes back there.
12:08You add in Brian Cook into the mix.
12:10Dax Hill is a versatile defensive back who's also going to make a difference back there.
12:15And I think that really athleticism is the name of this defense.
12:18And I know that's like so standard, so generic, but I think it's going to help them at all
12:21three levels.
12:22I am curious to see if this rebuilt defensive line produces at the rate that we expect them
12:27to.
12:27They have names that are recognizable, that come in with reputation.
12:30But I also know that, you know, Shamar, Stewart, Miles Murphy, both of those guys need to produce.
12:36I know Shamar was a rookie last year, didn't get to play a lot.
12:38But Murphy, you know, he's a traits guy that they drafted that has never done anything.
12:44They went in the opposite direction with Cassius Howell, the anti-traits guy who was a third
12:48down pass rusher who was very explosive.
12:50I would love to see if he ends up, you know, filling a slightly bigger role in making a
12:54difference in that defense.
12:55Because if they can generate consistent pass rush, they have the secondary to lock it down
12:58and be a lot better.
12:59And if their defense is a lot better, we know what you get out of that offense, which
13:02is continuity, familiarity, and big playmaking ability.
13:06So that's why I'm pretty high on them.
13:09If there's a year for them to do it and get back to what they were four or five years
13:12ago,
13:12this is the year to do it.
13:13Health is always a concern.
13:15You know, you want to stay as healthy as possible.
13:17But this is the year for them to do it.
13:18Nick, great stuff as always.
13:20We might tease each other, but I love your work, buddy.
13:23Always great to catch up with you.
13:25Keep killing it at NFL.com.
13:26Thanks, Nick.
13:27Teasing is my love language, and I love you guys.
13:30So thanks for having me.
13:32I love you too, buddy.
13:33JP?
13:34I like you, Nick.
13:35Look at that.
13:35A lot of like, a lot of love around you.
13:37That's cool.
13:37That's cool.
13:37That works.
13:38Play hard to get.
13:39Nick Shook, NFL.com, NFL writer.
13:42That's a hard thing for me, Nick.
13:42It's not going then.
13:44You need to know that now.
13:45Saying you continue to offend our guests with your closed heart.
13:49It's okay.
13:50You'll get there one day.
13:51It takes a lot to love.
13:52On the Wise Heart Right, we make it right.
13:53Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
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