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Willard and Dibs debate if the Giants should trade Rafael Devers.
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00:00Remember when Dan O'Dowd came on our show?
00:02Yeah, I think I was here for that one.
00:04And then yesterday, Dan O'Dowd went on MLB Network.
00:10I don't remember that one.
00:11He talked about the Giants and Rafi Devers.
00:16Why they went after him in the first place.
00:18Take a listen.
00:20To me, in the Giants case, I think, guys,
00:23I think it's a reaction to not signing Stanton,
00:26not signing Harper, not signing Correa, not signing Judge.
00:29They wanted a star.
00:30And they realized they can't sign one as a free agent,
00:33so they went the trade route.
00:34Okay.
00:35Probably some validity to that.
00:37Right.
00:37And they saw the way it was going in Boston,
00:40which was a very public, more than a spat, more than a feud.
00:44It was akin to Jimmy Butler in Miami, I think,
00:47where the only way that was going to end
00:49was with Rafi Devers getting shipped out.
00:53Yeah, but it didn't need to necessarily go the way that it went.
00:56I mean, the one thing I will say about when Rafi Devers was acquired,
01:01I think all of us Giants fans were so thrilled to have an elite hitter,
01:05but there were a lot of baseball people who said in the same sentence,
01:12yes, great hitter,
01:13and I think the Giants clearly got the best player in the deal,
01:17but also a little surprised they just took on the whole contract.
01:21Yeah.
01:22I don't think there were any other baseball teams
01:24that were going to be willing to do that.
01:26And wasn't some of the money paid already up front by Boston
01:30in the form of a signing bonus?
01:33Yeah, absolutely.
01:35You always talk about the average annual amount on the deal,
01:38and it's not what shows on Baseball Reference,
01:41which is $33 million a year.
01:43Right.
01:43It's actually about $28.5 a year.
01:45Okay.
01:46Every year.
01:47Right, but they still took on the whole kit and caboodle.
01:50They still took on the rest of what was on it.
01:52Yeah.
01:52Boston didn't chip in $100 million,
01:54or you just took the player and you took the contract.
01:57They didn't chip in $100.
01:58Right.
01:59Let alone $100 million.
02:00There was no chip.
02:00There was no chip.
02:01Nothing was chipped in.
02:02And I like chips.
02:03Yeah.
02:04A little too much, actually.
02:05I think at the time, yeah,
02:07you looked at the trade and thought they finally got a hitter,
02:10like Dan O'Dowd just said,
02:11but at the time you weren't thinking that Bryce was going to be just a year away
02:16and that he was going to come up and make this big of a splash this soon.
02:20And so I think Buster looked at it and he pounced.
02:23There's a really good player available,
02:25a player that had to be dealt because the situation was broken.
02:29Look, I was in favor of it then,
02:32so I'm not going to allow myself to not be in favor of it now.
02:36But to the point he's making,
02:38does this mean that the Giants acted out of some other emotion
02:46rather than what you want to act out of,
02:49which is we like this player
02:52and we think this is the perfect deal for us right now.
02:55In other words, were they letting history into,
02:57you know the analogy I love to use.
02:59It's just kind of like if you're dating or married to somebody
03:03who loves to go out five nights a week and stay out late
03:09and that relationship sours,
03:12you're going to immediately look for like a homebody.
03:15But you may not be a homebody.
03:17That's just what you want now.
03:19It's not what you want all the time.
03:22And now you've signed up for homebody.
03:25And that's going to wear out too
03:28because at a certain point,
03:29five, six, seven years down the road,
03:31or who knows, maybe in 12 months,
03:33you'd be like, I'm bored.
03:34And so did the Giants act out of,
03:37instead of, we think this is a good deal
03:40and a great player who fits perfectly,
03:43did they basically act out of their own wounding?
03:49Perhaps.
03:50That's what concerns me here.
03:51A certain amount of, not desperation,
03:53but yeah, some desperation
03:56because you have been trying and trying and trying
03:59to get these really big time hitters to come here
04:01and you finish in second,
04:02hee-hee-haw, time and time again,
04:04and Farhan's out.
04:06And so Buster takes the reins
04:07and sees this as the best opportunity.
04:10And so yeah,
04:11you go out there and you just fire away
04:13and you trade your prospects and Jordan Hicks
04:16and you just take on the whole deal
04:17because you got yourself a real bonafide
04:20850 OPS superstar hitter.
04:23What you got, Grandy?
04:24What do you think is the,
04:25because the Devers deal,
04:26you're getting beat on all fronts.
04:28What do you think is the worst part of it?
04:30Is it Devers' performance specifically?
04:32Is it the fact that Harrison is looking
04:35like an all-star in Milwaukee?
04:37Or is it that he's essentially blocking Bryce Eldridge?
04:41Like what is the worst part?
04:42Because all three of those are not good.
04:44I picked the first one for me.
04:46Devers not playing as well.
04:47Yeah, just like his performance is not,
04:49and it's not an offensive performance,
04:52it's just not Rafi Devers.
04:54That's what bothers me the most.
04:56I think at least in the near term,
04:58you can deal with Eldridge and Devers
05:00swapping back and forth between that and the DH.
05:03And Kyle Harrison showing out,
05:06to me that's part of the,
05:07that's the cost of doing business sometimes.
05:08If you get a great player in return,
05:11then it's okay if you gave up somebody else
05:13who's performing also.
05:15And Boston actually gave him up too.
05:17And it wasn't until he got to Milwaukee
05:18that he got healthy and learned how to pitch apparently.
05:21I don't know if this helps Giants fans or not.
05:23Boston's dealings in all of this were way worse.
05:26Way worse.
05:27But I don't care about that.
05:28I'm a Giants fan.
05:29I'm not comforted by,
05:31hey, the Giants are in fourth place,
05:32but hey, so are the Sox.
05:34Like, so what?
05:35I don't care about that.
05:36They messed up bigger,
05:37but the Giants still messed up.
05:39Tibbs, by the way,
05:40is at 1,036 in the Dodgers organization.
05:43He has been a whole time.
05:45But even when he cooled off,
05:47he's still above 1,000.
05:49Somebody asked him,
05:49why aren't they calling him up?
05:53Like, what?
05:54Do they have a spot for him?
05:55I mean, they have to.
05:58They're not hitting 350 at every position,
06:03are they?
06:04I doubt it.
06:05He's got 19 home runs
06:07and 59 driven in in AAA.
06:09He's an outfielder, right?
06:10Yeah.
06:11You know who one of the best outfielders
06:12in the National League is?
06:13Yes, Andy Pajas.
06:14He's been amazing this year.
06:16Andy Pajas.
06:17He's been,
06:17he's probably been the Dodgers.
06:19You could make a case
06:20he's been their best player.
06:22Well, I don't know where.
06:22Tibbs has also played
06:23a bunch of firsts this year.
06:24An even split of first,
06:26right field, and DH.
06:27Right, right.
06:28And obviously, the Dodgers have a DH.
06:30It goes by the name of Shohei Otani.
06:32Yeah.
06:32So, Pajas has been great.
06:35You know, you've got Teoscar Hernandez
06:37and left.
06:38You spent a truckload of money
06:39on Kyle Tucker
06:40and put him in right.
06:42So, that's why Tibbs is not up.
06:44But, at the same time,
06:46yeah.
06:46I mean, it's probably similar
06:48to what we were screaming about
06:49with Bryce Eldridge.
06:50Like, don't call the guy up
06:51unless you've got a spot to play him.
06:52Right.
06:52And I would answer your question
06:53the same way as Mark Grandy.
06:55The first part of it,
06:56the lack of performance
06:59from Ralphie Devers
07:00is the one that
07:01is the worst part
07:02of the trade for me.
07:03Because you can't control
07:05what they do with Kyle Harrison
07:06and they gave up on him
07:08sooner than the Giants did.
07:09Do you guys both
07:10think the Giants
07:11should trade Ralphie Devers?
07:13I don't know
07:14if I meant the word should.
07:17But, like,
07:17from an opportunistic standpoint,
07:19if there's a deal
07:20that makes sense,
07:21I think they absolutely
07:22need to be open to it.
07:23But if he was hitting
07:24the way he has
07:25throughout his career,
07:25you wouldn't want to do it
07:26even if the team
07:27wasn't still very good.
07:28Not right now.
07:29I think the biggest reason
07:30for me to trade him
07:31is because he's blocking Eldridge.
07:33But is he?
07:35Like, I don't...
07:36I guess maybe he is long-term.
07:39I think what they're doing
07:40right now is okay for now.
07:42So, the reason I would look
07:44to trade Ralphie Devers
07:45is I would have questions
07:47if this could last
07:48much more than a year.
07:50But, I'd be willing
07:52to do this for a year.
07:53You could trade Ralphie
07:54at the next deadline.
07:56If there's no good deal
07:58right now,
07:58you can do this next July.
08:00Yeah, and I think...
08:01What the hell's on the line?
08:02It's not like,
08:02oh, no, we're going to ruin
08:04the rest of this year.
08:05Ah, they took care
08:05of that already.
08:06Pretty much.
08:06And I think the further
08:07down the line
08:09with his contract you go,
08:11the more tradable it becomes.
08:12Right.
08:12Because...
08:13Agreed.
08:13You don't have to eat as much
08:14and neither does the other team.
08:15The older he gets, though,
08:16and theoretically,
08:17the worse as a player
08:18he becomes, though.
08:19Fair, but he also...
08:20Like, I don't think
08:21he's going to hit
08:21any worse than this.
08:23I mean, he could start
08:24to rake.
08:26Maybe he puts up
08:27another 850 OPS
08:28and then he becomes
08:30more tradable.
08:30I agree with everything
08:32that you guys are saying.
08:33This is all...
08:33It's all a cost-benefit analysis.
08:35It's all a risk-reward play.
08:37I don't think you have
08:39to trade Rafi Devers
08:40this season.
08:42I don't even know
08:42if they can.
08:43Again, it's hard for me
08:45to wrap my head around
08:47right now the idea, though,
08:49that they keep him
08:50for more than another year
08:51or two if Bryce is going
08:53to be anything like this
08:55at all.
08:55I think there's a sweet spot
08:56of the contract gets smaller
08:58and he still is at an age
08:59where he can be productive.
09:01That, I think, is...
09:02Maybe it's a year
09:03or two or three,
09:05but he's never had...
09:06He's only had...
09:07No, he's never had
09:08a year this bad.
09:09His second year,
09:10his OPS was 731.
09:12Right.
09:12And, you know,
09:14he had 21 homers that year,
09:16but other than that,
09:17he's been high 8s
09:19and dominant.
09:20We're not even
09:21at the halfway point, too.
09:22So, like,
09:23I don't know where his OPS
09:24is going to end up.
09:25He might end up
09:26with an OPS over 800 again.
09:28I mean,
09:29look what Chapman's done
09:30to his OPS in three weeks.
09:32So, Devers can do that, too.
09:34When you say the word
09:35three years,
09:36even two years,
09:37though, right now,
09:37that feels like a long time
09:39to keep Bryce Eldridge
09:42shelved defensively,
09:44blocked a little bit,
09:45because even if you just say,
09:47hey, Eldridge,
09:47you're going to be our DH,
09:49that creates flexibility problems
09:52elsewhere around the diamond.
09:53Like, don't forget,
09:54Elliott Ramos is coming back.
09:57And, okay,
09:58so now what?
09:59Where's Casey Schmidt go?
10:00And does he go to right?
10:02And does Jung-Hoo go to center?
10:03And if that's your outfield,
10:05guess what?
10:07You have an awful
10:10defensive outfield.
10:11Yeah, not a lot of,
10:12well, Jung-Hoo Lee's not awful,
10:13but.
10:13No, but he's not good in center.
10:15Right.
10:15No, he's a good outfielder.
10:17But they decided
10:18after two seasons
10:19or a season and a half
10:20of watching him in center
10:21that he was below average
10:23out there.
10:24Ramos, below average.
10:25And Casey Schmidt is brand new,
10:27and now you'd be asking
10:28him to learn
10:29a new outfield position again.
10:31And a quirky one at that.
10:33That's not a good outfield.
10:34It's not.
10:35And I don't want to go out
10:36into Oracle Park
10:37with a bad outfield.
10:38That's not a good idea.
10:39Especially with that
10:40triple zally, man.
10:41That thing's huge out there.
10:42Gotta move the fence way in.
10:43Seriously.
10:44And let us play
10:45with four outfielders
10:46like it's a slow pitch team.
10:48Change the name
10:49to singles alley.
10:50Pretty much.
10:50Bring that thing
10:51into about 320 feet.
10:52So when do you think
10:53Ramos is going to be ready?
10:55It's getting there.
10:56Another week or two?
10:57Month of June.
10:58Okay.
10:59Rehab assignment upcoming
11:00and then.
11:01Month of June, I think.
11:02So there might be a way
11:03to have him come back
11:04and at the same time
11:05you trade Louisa Rice
11:07who is one of the
11:08most attractive pieces
11:10that's out there.
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