00:07Welcome to SAM Conversation, a program of South Asia Monitor.
00:14To discuss an important subject, the Siriguri Corridor, it is our pleasure to invite Lieutenant
00:22General Sanjayi Kulkarni, former Director General Infantry, and importantly Siyachin, the first
00:34man to jump down on the Siyachin Glacier on 13 April 1984 from a helicopter at a height
00:43of over 15,000 feet, and thereafter began the Operation Meghdoot in the Siyachin Glacier.
00:55We have had a lot of mention about the Siriguri Corridor, which is a stretch of about 60 kilometers
01:04in length and 20 to 22 kilometers in width. It is also loosely referred to as a chicken's
01:16neck, but I think that should be avoided because there is already a chicken neck on the western
01:23borders. Anyway, the first time it really came into notice was in 2017 when the Chinese started
01:36doing all kinds of activities around Doklam. The second time it came into, you know,
01:45attention was when the, well I have no hesitation in saying the United States, Deep State, there
01:56is one functioning and it functioned in removing Sheikh Hasina, the head of the
02:03Awami League, and installing a dubious character who has been also an award winner, an award, you know,
02:22given to him by the Americans. Anyway, and that is when he talked a lot about, oh, we will, you
02:31know,
02:31we will make this entire complex of the seven-sister states, which can also be called the eight-sister states,
02:42if you add sickened to it. Without going, there is so much more to speak on it, but I will
02:53leave that to
02:54Dr. Sanjay Kulkarni. All yours.
02:59Thank you very much, sir. Absolute pleasure talking to you. And, you know, something absolutely professional,
03:06something in the limelight, something that you have been mentioning all along, that you already have a
03:13chicken's corridor. There is no denying the fact. And then I call it a chicken's corridor over here. But, like
03:19you
03:19rightly said, it is the, you know, the sole narrow lane which connects the entire India with the
03:27north-east, and all the entire states at the narrowest, which it is about 22 odd kilometres. Some say 60
03:35kilometres
03:36in length at 22 kilometres. Some are even claimed to be as long as 200 kilometres by about 22 kilometres,
03:44and therefore an area of approximately about 12,000 square kilometres in this area, what we call it as a
03:50Silliguri corridor, where a local parliament called the Chickensnet. However, rightly said, it's
03:58Muhammad Yunus, whose arrival made the ISI step in, and they thought that an area which is so narrow, flanked
04:07by
04:07Nepal, Bhutan, and Bangladesh, and Bangladesh almost turning then into East Pakistan, again back to it in its
04:16geological outlook, and also wanting to, they thought that they could well cut off India from the north-east,
04:25which has a population of about 45 billion people, and the connectivity of it through whether it is by train,
04:33whether it is by air, whether it is by road, all of it passed to this chicken's corridor. And therefore,
04:40it was very,
04:41very important that it must be secured. And to add to it, there was a lot more also by the
04:49West Bengal
04:50government then, which hesitated in handing over land, or hesitated in, you know, trying to put delays in
04:58what the government wanted to acquire over there. But the government's promise of wanting a land which they
05:06handed over, the government now of Mr. Adhikari and the Chief Minister of Bengal, immediately handed over
05:12about 600 acres of land to the BSF, gave 120 acres of land to the central government, so that
05:19controlments around in that entire area could be well. And therefore, we have one of the eastern Lachit
05:29Bukkan controlments with the Kishigandh. Then you had the Chopra controlments, which are not very far
05:35from there, just about 100, very, very close, rather, to the Bangladesh border. So all these
05:41controlments which came up, sprung all along it, ensuring that at no point of time would anybody ever,
05:48ever, ever, ever succeed in wanting to sabotage or wanting to cut off. China, as you rightly said,
05:56it's about 130 kilometers from there. And surely after the Doklam incident, everybody thought that they
06:01could just roll down. It isn't as easy to roll down as most people would want to think. It's quite
06:07a
06:07distance, 130 kilometers away. But notwithstanding that, there was a population which slowly and
06:13steadily came in around with an ideology which wasn't very much shooting the Indian environment at that
06:20point of time. And it was this ideology which had to be fought because things written on the wall, the
06:26literature being distributed, the people who had then migrated in large numbers from 51 odd words,
06:3371 odd words, but settled there, were on paper Indian citizens, but were still, you know, the blood is
06:42thicker than this thing. They were more inclined towards Bangladesh. And ISI, Pakistan took that as an
06:49opportunity of exploiting this. With the ISI chief landing over there, all of the incidents happening
06:55in and around at that point of time. So there was a lot. But then the government decided that it
07:01would not
07:01only have the controlment, which also had an air force station, which also had, you could say the
07:09S-400, the BrahMos, and all of it. It has a railway line. And now we intend to go on
07:15underground,
07:16and total connectivity through tunnels. So we'll have something which is going through this
07:21Billy Billy corridor. The entire length, as you rightly said, that it narrow is 22 kilometers, length is
07:2760 kilometers, and all of it passing through it. And therefore we'll have things overground, we'll have
07:32things underground fence. The entire fencing, which is there, which is about 12 feet high,
07:38and then we have drones, we have all kinds of service equipment over there. So all this, and suddenly
07:44in about, you could say about less than two months of the new government having taken over,
07:50a whole lot of activities suddenly sprung up over there, ensuring that at no point of time
07:56the northeastern states are found wanting on it, and get cut off. Not just that, sir. We also had the
08:03Kaladan multi-model project, so that the northeastern states is also connected from that end. And
08:11therefore the Kaladan also, from Kolkata to Sitwe, that entire distance that is what they call the
08:16sea route, which was about 539 kilometers. Then you had from Sitwe, you had to go into that area,
08:25this thing, what they called it, I'm forgetting that name, Paletwa, to Paletwa. And from Paletwa,
08:32then there was a land route, which touched the Indo-Myanmar border, and then into Visorops,
08:37and therefore. So there were connectivities being thought of as alternated, but since that also,
08:42because of the kind of environment in Myanmar, was taking a little longer time, because it has sea,
08:49it has inland waterways, then it has a road. So there was a, but hopefully, I'm told with the
08:55Myanmaris also now, very much inclined to wanting a peaceful place there. They are the head of state
09:03now in India at this point of time also. So you find that they have also accepted it by maybe
09:08another
09:09year's time. So this Kaladan multi-model project, which should have well been done about almost a decade
09:14and got delayed back, has got delayed, but notwithstanding that, this is one connectivity,
09:18then you have this connectivity. Then with the fencing coming up, with the government,
09:25the West Bengal government having handed over the land to the BSF, to the central government,
09:31under the 20 acres. So we have all of these contornments in and around, with the kind of
09:37mobility deployment there. So it's an absolutely secure corridor. And as you rightly said, not worth
09:44calling it a chicken's neck. In fact, they might get cut off, not we, because we are very well,
09:51absolutely well secured, well fortified. And this stretch is very well helped. And therefore,
09:58those 45 million people of ours, which are in the North-Eastern states, and the major connectivity
10:02with the rest of India, will never ever get compromised, nor ever be supported by anybody
10:09in under any circumstance. So this is the, on this delivery corridor that I can share with you, sir. Yes,
10:17sir.
10:19Thank you very much for whatever you brought out, very important inputs related to this. While there is no doubt
10:28about
10:28the kind of build-up, I will say, very necessarily required, and realized well in time, that we are,
10:41you know, doing on both sides of this corridor, there is absolutely no scope for us to become complacent.
10:53Because, as things stand, the combination of Bangladesh and Pakistan, which has, you know, which has come very close,
11:02which have come very close to each other, and with a combination of, as I already mentioned, the American deep
11:09state.
11:12You know, the British had, at one stage, unleashed missionaries of every denomination in the North-East to try to,
11:29and, and they succeeded in converting almost all tribes. It's only the Ahoms of Assam, and the mighties of Manipur,
11:40who resisted becoming, you know, getting converted, and they remained very strong kingdoms.
11:49Lakshid Barkokan threw back 17 times.
11:57Lakshid Barkokan threw them back 17 times.
12:00Absolutely.
12:01And the Kangalipath, the Maitei Kingdom, they were the last to succumb to the British in 1891, as late as
12:091891.
12:11Anyway, the British left and the Americans took over, having been posted there for five years continuously,
12:23in an opening, a direct trade of Ministry of Defence Public Relations cells in Imphal and Guwahati,
12:35and having traversed almost all the entire North-East. One thing I can say is that there has always been
12:41a lot of US interest,
12:42to put it very mildly. There's been a lot of snooping around done by them, and, you know, there's a
12:51lot of control attempted to be exercised by the Church.
12:57I am not trying to be, I am not a political person, I am just a military man like you,
13:02who is interested in the, you know, in the security of,
13:09the very, you know, concept of India, which unfortunately gets doubted by some Indians, unfortunately.
13:19So, we have to make sure that, you know, we have known the birth of, BROs concerned, we have, they
13:32have made world-class roads, bridges and tunnels.
13:36And, I am sure that capability will be very, very relevant and useful here. But, it, I underlined again that
13:49there is no scope for complacency.
13:52And, this is something which has to be, which has to be, you know, very sharply observed all time, you
14:03know, 24-7.
14:07So, if I might just add to what you said, it is because of Lachet Borpupin, there's a military station
14:13named, besides...
14:15Yes, I understand, very, it was very good news, it was very good news to hear, you know, that, I
14:24authored, my second book which I authored was,
14:27Assam, Terrorism and the Demographic Challenge, which was in 2008, and by which time, about eight, nine districts had, in
14:38nine districts of Assam, the demographic shift had taken place.
14:45And, and, in 2005, the then Governor of Assam, Lieutenant General S.K. Sina, he had put up a paper
14:55to the President of India, that, please, be aware, that, at least five districts of Assam, this, you know, the
15:05demographic balance has shifted.
15:08Today it is 13 to 14 districts, after which Mr. Himanthavishwa, Sharma has come down like a ton of bricks.
15:17Very good that he has.
15:21But all this, we have to be very wary of ensuring that no monkey tricks succeed here.
15:36Anything that you would like to add?
15:42You rightly said that Lakshad Bolpokan military station having come up there, we have Kishangal, Dubri, Chopra,
15:50all of these military stations in and around, and the state government giving the land to the BSF for fencing,
15:58the state government handing over 120 acres to the central government to establish itself.
16:03And therefore, there is no question now that at any point of time,
16:08the central has now put its own foot over there and has such a large interest.
16:12And therefore, the northeastern state, irrespective of whatever might happen, will never ever get cut off.
16:18And the 45 billion people that we have across will always get cut off such a thing.
16:24And therefore, it's important that the Siliguri corridor remains something which is a sole, narrow land bridge,
16:35which northeast of the rest of India remains secure, safe and very important, detect and delete and deport.
16:45If we have to ensure that any migration that has taken place from the other side,
16:50either forcibly or in a fine manner, it is very important that we must be able to detect,
16:57we must be able to delete their names as the process of SIR has started.
17:03We have the complete citizenship in place and then deport these people with the West Bengal government
17:09now having said that they will not be sent to jail. Instead, they will be sent to a place from
17:14where they will be sent back to Bangladesh.
17:17Where they can be sent into Bangladesh as soon as possible.
17:21Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Absolutely right. And therefore, I think this is an area which all of us can take
17:28pride
17:28that the government of India has decided to heavily fortify it and no fear whatsoever from any part,
17:35from anywhere in the world that ever anything that can happen to the Siliguri corridor.
17:42It must not happen like it did in 1971. You know, we prided ourselves on being so correct.
17:50On 16th of December 1971, we could have, we could have hung on or we could have changed the, you
18:01know, shape of the boundary
18:02between West, while East Pakistan and India to suit India, to practically suit us.
18:10But no, we were very proper. We remained very proper.
18:16Yes, yes, yes, yes. I totally agree with you. Because otherwise, the demographic change is being done. Because basically, as
18:25they say sometimes, I don't know whether I would be right to say,
18:29because Islam is a political system in religious clothing. And therefore, it becomes very, very difficult to be able to
18:36identify or to be able to differentiate, unlike Hinduism, which can be seen as a way of life.
18:42And therefore, every one of us are Indian. Every one of us are Hindustanian. We don't see ourselves as Hindu,
18:48Muslim, Sikhs or Sikhs. We always see ourselves as Indian, as Hindustanian. And that is very important. Unless you take
18:56a religious colour, then it becomes difficult.
18:58And mind you, the British took such advantage. They had to leave in a hurry. Thanks to the Indian Navy,
19:08you know, personnel of the British Indian Navy, who mutinied, they had to leave in a great hurry. But they
19:16still did their bit of, you know, dismembering the country.
19:22Over here? No, no. What I am saying is that, it wasn't just a physical dismembering of the country. It
19:31was, it was causing so many political problems, which we are facing till date.
19:39The very fact of Lord Kersen's first act of partition of Bengal in 1905, which has led to all happening
19:47in this area, where the two Bengals were created, East Bengal and West Bengal. And East Bengal, which is Bangladesh,
19:56had Muslims in majority and all Bengali-speaking.
20:00So there were Bengali-speaking Muslims in majority, East Bengal. The West Bengal did not have Bengali-speaking majority because
20:10it had Bihar, it had Orissa, it had Assam and it had Bengal.
20:14So the Bengali-speaking Hindus in majority, but not Bengali-speaking Hindus in majority. So there was always that affiliation
20:26of the Bengali-speaking Hindus with the, you could say, Muslim Bengali.
20:34So there is that affiliation, which the Hindu Bengali saw it as a language, which would bond them. Instead, they
20:42took advantage of it. For them, religion bonded, not the language. And to the Hindu Bengali, the language bonded and
20:50not the religion. So there was this dichotomy, which got exploited.
20:54So very well brought up. I think we've covered a very large number of points. There's of course, this is
21:11a complex situation, which demands a lot of research and without fail, a very sharp, you know, monitoring
21:23and defending.
21:27The two things that I must bring to your notice, that the Muslim League was formed in Dhaka, 1906, 1905,
21:35the Muslim League formed in Dhaka. And the direct action day, again, if you recollect 14th of August 1946, resulting
21:47in what happened along the partition, which occurred in 1947.
21:51So the direct action day, the Muslim League, Muslim League, all these kind of a thing, which you rightly said,
21:57the Britishers did what they were best at, divide and rule. And that is what was benefiting them, but definitely
22:04did not suit us.
22:05And I sincerely hope that people around see whoever we are now in the India that we are, that all
22:13of us are Hindustanis, all of us are Indians. And at no point of time, it should not be the
22:18religion we should divide us. It should, in fact, unite us to say that we all belong. We are all
22:24the same blood, irrespective of whatever it may be.
22:29And who has shown that better than the Indian army? Yes, absolutely.
22:35Known that better than the Indian army, the armed forces, where in old regiments, you know, where you have, let's
22:45say, let's say, regiment like very old one, 16th cavalry, South Indian, you have a mandir, you have a church,
22:55and you have a, you know, a place for the...
22:59And otherwise, in mixed units, you have a serva dharvestal. Yes, yes, sir. And we, I think the world needs
23:10to learn from this Indian army of us. I am not trying to sound...
23:19No, no, no, no. So much to learn from the armed forces, because the unity of India is largely because
23:26of the armed forces, because we are absolutely apolitical, and we do not believe in any religion. For us, it
23:33is Hindustan. It is for us, it is Bharat. That is the religion, and that is the constitution we all
23:39follow, rather than being Hindu, Muslim, Sikhs, or something like that. Nothing bothers us.
23:44This was expressed very plainly by two senior journalists, one Indian, Kushwan Singh, and the other British, Mark Tully.
23:56Yes, Mark Tully also, yes, yes.
23:58I mean, in personal interactions with them, interviews and things, they very plainly said, if this country has been kept
24:07together, you have to, the Indian armed forces, thank for it, largely.
24:16Anyway, Sanjay Koolkani, thank you very much for your time and your valuable inputs, and more when we meet again.
24:25All the best.
24:26Thank you, sir.
24:28Jai Hid.
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