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00:07Welcome to my show, SAM Dialogues with Dr. MP Reddy, sponsored by South Asia Monitor.
00:16We are launching this show with Dr. Anil Raj Vanshi, Padma Shri Awardee, one of India's
00:24highest civilian awards. We are very fortunate and honored to have the debut of this show
00:30with Dr. Raj Vanshi. Since this is my first show of this new series that I am starting,
00:37let me introduce myself briefly. I am Medha Paramahiswara Reddy. People call me MP Reddy.
00:45After obtaining my PhD from Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, I did fellowship in Johns
00:52Hopkins University in USA. I later joined medical diagnostics industry. There my inventions
01:00resulted in 30 U.S. patents. I finally retired as a director of research and development.
01:08Recently, I have become very passionate about writing and publishing articles. I published
01:13more than 30 articles, many of them in South Asia Monitor. I am currently serving on their
01:22editorial board. Now, coming to our guest, Dr. Anil Raj Vanshi. Dr. Raj Vanshi is currently
01:31the director of the NIMCAR Agricultural Research Institute. As I mentioned earlier, he is a recipient
01:40of the prestigious Padma Shri Award as well as many other awards for his pioneering contributions to rural
01:48development, renewable energy, and rather unique integration of science and spirituality. Dr. Raj Vanshi,
01:57welcome to my show, SAM Dialogues with Dr. MP Reddy. Welcome.
02:03Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
02:05Okay, good. You know, my very first question for you today is, you received engineering degree
02:12from IIT Kanpur, and then you went on to USA to pursue your PhD there. After that, you taught
02:22for a couple of years there, and then you made an extraordinary decision to return back to India,
02:29which is very uncommon. That is a kind of, I would say, reverse brain drain, moving from USA back to
02:35India, particularly to serve rural India. Please tell me what kind of thought process went through your
02:43mind back in 1981 to make that unusual but incredible decision?
02:50Well, the only thing I can think of, and I have thought a lot about it, and I've given a
02:56lot of
02:56lectures all over the world, is just madness and arrogance. If I had an iota of intelligence, like all
03:06of you millions of Indians who went to America who never came back, I would have also not not come
03:12back.
03:12The madness was there that with my work that I did under a very great pioneer in solar energy in
03:21North Sea of Florida, I will come and help India, and the arrogance that I will change India. Now,
03:27what a stupid idea that was, because great people, this India is a very ancient civilization, and great
03:35people have never been able to change it. And who was I, a small fry to think about that. But
03:41that
03:41arrogance is what made me come back. And India, an ancient civilization could not be changed, but it
03:50changed me. And that was, to my mind, the best thing that happened to me. It detoxified Anil Rajvanshi.
03:59It brought him down. It showed me that by living and working in rural India, the situation is very
04:08difficult. The things are very, very difficult to change. But it taught me humility, simplicity, and
04:16brought back the spiritual traditions of the great country. So this was my story. And naturally, my
04:24father had gone to jail with Gandhiji. I'm sure it had a tremendous impact on me, because somehow I was
04:32attached to the story of India. And I felt that if by whatever little bit I can help the country,
04:40I had no great
04:41desire to, you know, change anything. I just wanted to do something meaningful in my life. And I thought,
04:49why not start? Naturally, I was inspired by Gandhiji's example of coming to rural India and going around
04:58and seeing how to change it. So that was probably the reason why I came. Now once having come there,
05:05I tried to look at the problems. And as an engineer, I said, this is a challenge. And can I
05:14do something
05:15to solve that challenge? And so that is how I started my journey in 1981. The situation was very
05:22tough. Fulton was a place where to make a phone call, long distance phone call. A lot of times I
05:29would hop on the bus, go to Pune, which is a four hour journey, and make phone call. It was
05:34not very
05:35easy. I know what you mean. I can relate to that easily. That's right. We are approximately of similar
05:43generation, similar age. So I know exactly what you were talking about. So that was the main thing. But
05:52the Janun, Janun means passion, was such that it took away all the pinpricks. Because the desire was
05:59to solve the problem. The desire was not, you know, you see, if I would have been an intelligent IITan,
06:05I would have thought three times where my career is going. Career never came into the picture. Because
06:11the only thing that mattered was how to solve the problem that I see in front of me. And once
06:17that Janun
06:18comes and that passion remains, comes, then everything else becomes secondary. And that is
06:25exactly what yoga is. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.
06:30When you focus on something very deeply, then everything vanishes.
06:35Okay. We are going to come back to that in a little later segment. Okay. Please bear with me.
06:42Yeah, I know. We are going to talk about spirituality and all again. Okay. And let me move on to
06:49your substantial and pioneering work you did. That was the development of electric rickshaws.
06:57And you thought about that all the way back in 1990s. Okay. Now there are, my understanding is,
07:04about 2.5 million e-rickshaws navigating Indian roads and the government of India is actively pursuing
07:13to reduce severe urban pollution in India. How did you come up with that incredible idea way back
07:23around 1990s? And then what did you do? How did you do to manage to implement it? Take the idea
07:31all the
07:32way to implementation, which is not an easy thing at all. You see, as an engineer, the most important
07:39thing that I have always felt is that we engineers are supposed to solve problems. I come from Lucknow.
07:45And when I was young, the only mode of transport in Lucknow was rickshaw. And I used to
07:53ride the rickshaw quite often. And anytime there was a slope, I was very pained to see this rickshaw puller,
08:00get down from the rickshaw and just get on his foot and push me. And a lot of times I
08:07would get down
08:07and also push the rickshaw. And I felt what an inhuman thing was that another human being is
08:14carrying your weight on his shoulders, so-called shoulders. So that thought was always there.
08:20When I went to IIT Kanpur, you know, it was very strange that the Americans,
08:26IIT Kanpur was funded by America, as you know, and all the American professors and other people,
08:33and they never taught, told us to redesign the rickshaw. Because we were told to redesign,
08:41to work on the design of the Apollo aircraft, of the craft sending to the moon. And you know,
08:47you're so away from the reality. So that thought always remained. And when I came back, and I said,
08:55as an engineer, because I had already was looking at so many other things in renewable energy,
09:01what can I do to improve this rickshaw? So the first thing that I did was to interview maybe
09:09thousands of rickshaw pullers in Lucknow, in Alabad, in Hyderabad, in, you know, so many places where
09:17rickshaws were being pulled. And I wanted to get an idea on what is required, what are their problems.
09:26And I don't think anybody had done the study. In fact, this became a pioneering study on the whole
09:32issue of rickshaw pullers. And in 1996, I published that study, and it was, it has been quoted all over
09:40the world. And then I said, I asked them, they always told me that if the rickshaw could be motorized,
09:48then it can help. Naturally, in those times, the motor available was a small IC engine, and it produced
09:56a lot of noise and etc. So I said, Can we do something with electric motor? And in 1990, I
10:04had gone to
10:05United States to present a paper in IEEE conference. And there I met a very famous person.
10:15You know, I forget his name. He was in Boeing. And he was a very distinguished professor. And he says,
10:22I'm working on electric motors for small for electric cycles. Okay, I suddenly felt that maybe we can use
10:29that. Yes. And that is how my journey started. So in 1999, I presented my work on what we had
10:38done a
10:38little bit at IIT Kanpur. And I sent this paper to my friend in MIT was David Wilson, the father
10:48of
10:50Bicycle. He has written a classic book on the science of cycle. And he liked it so much. So he
10:58put it on
10:59his journal as a cover story. And then the whole thing started. So Chinese took it up. And I think
11:11the
11:11whole world took it up because that article contained the genesis of what can be done to improve the rickshaw,
11:19how it can be electrified, and what are the things and that is how the journey started.
11:23That shows your extreme compassion towards ordinary hardworking poor people. And also your ingenuity in
11:33terms of problem solving, coming up with ideas, pursuing, perseverance, there are so many qualities
11:40you needed and demonstrated to take it all the way from idea to practice. It is a great story.
11:48In 1997, we got the first patent on electric rickshaw anywhere in the world.
11:54Yes, that is great. I understand how difficult it is to get patents. Okay. Thank you very much.
12:01And now, let me get into the another area. Okay, where you did. And Dr. Adi, just a minute.
12:09And please the same focus. Yes, because you see the I'm a mechanical engineer. Yes. And I believe that
12:17engineering is a training of the mind. Yes. And once you are a PhD, you should be able to tackle
12:23any problem in the world. That is true. And that is how my life has been. So, I did not
12:29know anything
12:29about electrical engineering, but I mastered as much as possible the whole knowledge of electric motors.
12:36You know, one thing I always tell people, PhD means Doctor of Philosophy, not Doctor of Mechanical
12:45Engineering or Electrical Engineering or Biology, right? So, then I found out there were so many
12:52problems in the electric motors. There are so many problems in everything because there was this
12:57electric rickshaw required electric motor batteries and the controller. And so, all these things I got
13:06developed in Pune because I believed that we should have the complete Indian product. And this is in 1997.
13:15Yes. And today, there are all these rickshaws and most of the things are imported from China
13:20and which I feel very bad because we as a country can do a lot of these things in-house.
13:26Now, whatever you described, that is real definition, almost a textbook definition of entrepreneurship.
13:35You did whatever you needed in terms of learning and interacting with people to find out their
13:41requirements. Social entrepreneurship. Social entrepreneurship. Social entrepreneurship.
13:45That is a better way of description. A lot of people told me that I was probably the first
13:51social entrepreneur in India. I completely agree with whoever told you that, okay? I second whatever
13:58they say, clearly. I am glad I am able to talk to you and you are sharing that with South
14:04Asia Monitor
14:04audience about that. And since we have a little limited time, okay? I am sorry. Let us move on to
14:12another
14:13very important area you pioneered. That is water purification for rural households. There, you published
14:22many papers in that area. And your technology, I understand, is very simple relatively. That is what is
14:29important to make it practical. It involves, it looks like simple filtration, rainwater harvesting, and
14:36low-cost solar water purifiers. Please tell us briefly about that and where it stands right now.
14:45Well, when I came in 1981, the quality of water, drinking water was very poor in our institute. And I
14:52said,
14:53what can we do with solar energy? The solar energy is plenty. And so I started looking at heating the
15:02water and seeing if it can kill the E.coli. And we had a chemistry lab and we tested and
15:10we found that
15:11just by heating the water at 60 degrees Celsius, because most of the time the solar collectors in those
15:16times in 80s were simple collectors and they would not reach very high temperature. And we found that it was
15:22not possible to kill all the E.coli. Then suddenly an idea came that if I filter that water, that
15:30with a eight layer of different layers of saree cloth, simple cotton saree that women in rural areas
15:41wear, then what will happen? So we did a lot of very interesting experiments on filtering that water
15:46through different layers of cloth. And we found that eight layer cloth, which brought the filter level
15:51to 0.200 microns, would remove most of the bacterial content and then heating it to 60 degrees or even
16:02to
16:0245 degrees Celsius, which you could get on the cloudy day for three, four days, for three, four hours,
16:10you could finish all the E.coli. Wow. And that to my mind, that to my mind was a very
16:16pioneering idea,
16:18which nobody had done that. Such a low tech with very little investment, almost no investment. Yeah.
16:25Oh, wow. So we did many, many years of experiment on different collector design, different
16:32configuration, etc. And then we developed the design that exists today with these tubular collectors.
16:39The stagnation temperatures reach very high. On a slightly rainy day, you still can get 45 degrees
16:47Celsius for three hours, which is enough to kill all the E.coli and the filter water. And then we
16:54said,
16:54if I take the groundwater, there are a lot of salts. Yes. Rainwater is a God's given opportunity
17:02and we never collected. So we developed the whole technology of collecting rainwater
17:07and then purifying it through this process. Wow. And now, now there are three schools,
17:13very, you know, in Fulton area, rural area, rural schools, where the children never got good water.
17:22So around 600 to 700 students every day get this absolutely clean water through this technology.
17:29Are they still using it today? Yes, yes, yes. And it is spreading because more and more schools are
17:36coming. And the most interesting thing is that we designed it in such a manner that the children
17:41will themselves learn about the solar energy, about the mechanical engineering, about the water testing.
17:48So not only are they getting clean water, but they are also learning about STEM. Now,
17:55when children get clean water, it changes their whole life because water is the most important
18:03thing by which their stomach becomes all right. When the stomach becomes all right, the brain works
18:09because that is the most critical time for the children's life, for the person's life.
18:14Yes. During this time, if their brain is working nicely, then they will flower.
18:19During the developmental phase of their life.
18:23Yes. Oh, very good. That is really incredible. Okay. Again, your entrepreneurship, creativity,
18:33going beyond your mechanical engineering, no boundaries, right? As you said, PhD is not about
18:40trained in the focused area, right? It's a kind of general training. You can enter into any area and
18:46solve problems, right? That's what you said. You are a problem solver, basically. Now, let us shift gears
18:52to a completely different area. It looks like your favorite topic that is spiritual engineering,
18:58okay, spirituality. You called yourself a spiritual engineer. Okay. And then in 2002,
19:04you came up with a very intriguing concept. I would say as a chemist with my background,
19:10I call it an equation that is spirituality plus technology equals sustainability and happiness.
19:17Please tell me about that. How you think that is going to be useful to the world? And yeah, I
19:25would
19:25let you express it. And you see, through my life, whatever I have written are all the experiences of my
19:33life. I don't write about what I read, etc.
19:36And I found out that when you think very deeply, and which is basically like yoga, on anything,
19:44then you start looking at things from a very different perspective. And efficiency comes as a
19:50most important output. Because ultimately, the whole world runs on energy. And if you think very deeply,
19:57then you would like to see how you can utilize that energy very efficiently. Yes. And when you start
20:02thinking about that, then it also comes to your own example and your own life. Yes. And I felt that
20:09if I can
20:10do this through this, and that is why I call it spirituality. Because spirituality means thinking very
20:17deeply about anything. Spirituality is nothing to do with Numbo Jumbo or, you know, all these gurus
20:23are a teacher about spirituality is nothing else but going deeper into inside yourself and also looking
20:30at any problem very deeply. And that is why I think that all great scientists are spiritual in nature.
20:37So when you do that, then you realize that when with spirituality, it reduces your greed for resources
20:45and materials. And when you use the high technology, then you do everything very efficiently. And that
20:52leads to sustainability and happiness. Because when you are sustainable, and I have lived my life for
20:59the last 40-45 years, in a very sustainable manner, it is written up, I have a lot of articles
21:05on that,
21:05how I live, and rainwater harvesting and all these things. And it is not a harsh life. I don't think
21:13Americans can live like that, because they are very, very consumer of energy and a lot of greed.
21:20So it's in fact, for all of you, Indians also who live in America, this is something, a challenge,
21:26and see how you can put that dharma in your own life. And so the main thing is, how can
21:32we live
21:34efficiently, and not, you know, living in a poverty or anything, but living in a very meaningful life.
21:42And that is what I have done. And I think this should be the paradigm of development,
21:46not only for India, but for the rest of the world. And I just came back from United States,
21:50and I was a keynote speaker in Houston. And this was a theme of my talk. My keynote was on
21:57this,
21:57that reduce your greed, and practice spirituality. And so spirituality plus technology will lead to
22:04happiness and sustainability. Dr. Raj Vanshi, that is a nice segue into my next question. Okay,
22:10Dr. Raj Vanshi, you have written a wonderful book that is entitled Deep Science in Ancient Indian
22:18Philosophical Thought. Okay, so you already started talking about that. So you may as well talk.
22:25Dr. Raj Vanshi, yeah, so this is, this is my eighth book.
22:27Dr. Raj Vanshi, yeah. Oh, okay. Okay.
22:29Dr. Raj Vanshi, yeah. So, and I have always, you know, I'm a very biased Indian.
22:33Dr. Raj Vanshi, I think some of the greatest philosophical thought of the world has come from India.
22:38Dr. Raj Vanshi, India throughout the history of mankind has given Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism,
22:43so many other things. And the most important thing, yoga, from which all these things came.
22:48Dr. Raj Vanshi, yes.
22:48Dr. Raj Vanshi, yeah. And when I started looking from my scientific point of view,
22:52all these ancient books, I realized that these are great gems of science and technology.
22:58And it has never been looked from that point of view. It is always through the, you know,
23:04other things. And because the people who were interpreting it were not scientists.
23:09So when I started looking from the science, I realized that how great science is, was embedded
23:14into it. And for example, in this Patanjali yoga. And so I wrote this book talking about how scientific
23:22book is Patanjali log, and how much it really tallies with the modern science of Einstein's
23:31Gravitational Theory and so many other things. And it is just, you have to read between the lines.
23:36Dr. Raj Vanshi, Yes.
23:36Dr. Raj Vanshi, and it is not that we are downplaying the modern science and technology.
23:44Dr. Raj Vanshi, No.
23:44or raising our old structures.
23:48It's just that I want to show that how everything comes from the same knowledge space,
23:55whether it was Einstein's theories or Newton's theories or Patanjali's theories,
24:00they all came from the same source and which is infinite.
24:04So there's a lot of commonality among all of them.
24:07There's a common thread among all of them.
24:08Yes, yes, yes.
24:09So now let me come to the most important question I have,
24:15at least from my curiosity point of view.
24:18You got Padma Shri Award and many more prestigious awards
24:22and you received them from President of India and two Prime Ministers of India.
24:29How did you take that?
24:31When you heard that news...
24:33These are regular awards.
24:36Okay.
24:37These are, you know, physical processes.
24:42When you live for a long time, you keep on getting awards.
24:45There's nothing great about it.
24:46My greatest award is when I understand the mind of God.
24:51Okay.
24:52Then that is my greatest award.
24:54Wow.
24:54These are, these are all awards, which makes me happy in the sense that, yes, my ideas are now being
25:04recognized.
25:04And I use these awards simply as a spreading of ideas, nothing, you know, really, to tell you, frankly, there's
25:13no monetary thing attached to these awards.
25:16And so there is nothing to it, except that you, you, you get, you just feel and people respect you
25:24for that.
25:25That's all.
25:25So it seems like you take them in a humble way rather than feeling extremely proud or something.
25:31These are all regular things.
25:34That's all.
25:34Oh, my God.
25:35You are a humble man.
25:37I'm very impressed with you.
25:38No, no, no, no.
25:38No, no, no.
25:38No, no, no.
25:39Okay.
25:39That is really good.
25:41Okay.
25:41Now, coming to the final segment.
25:44Okay.
25:45As I said, we need to have several interviews with you.
25:49Okay.
25:50See, because of the limited time we have, because nowadays people have very limited attention time span, right?
25:57Attention span.
25:58So please tell, are there anything you want to tell to South Asia Monitor viewers, particularly young generations, any wise
26:10thoughts you have or suggestions you have for them?
26:13Well, the most important thing for youngsters is to focus.
26:19Yes.
26:20When you make your mind very powerful, then you can focus on anything and you will create wonderful solutions.
26:26Today, the attention deficit syndrome is so much.
26:30And so my only, and this is what the talk I give to all IITs and all the students that
26:36please focus because when you are young, you have a tremendous, very powerful brain.
26:42And if you can make that brain focus on things, concentrate on things, which can help like by reading and
26:52not spending time on your mobile, then you will become a great human being.
26:56And what you do with your life will come from that simple thing because when you become a very focused
27:03human being with a powerful brain, then wherever you want to apply that brain, you will do wonderful things.
27:10So my advice to youngsters and to everybody else is to become a very focused human being.
27:20And the final thoughts to South Asia Monitor, you know, our country is really great.
27:29And the ancient spiritual thought and traditions, we should follow and we should try to understand it.
27:37When we understand it, the most important thing that comes is we lose, we don't want to control.
27:44We reduce our control freak nature.
27:48And when we reduce our control freak nature, we all work together for the common good.
27:55And that is the most important thing that we Indians can teach not only to ourselves, but to the whole
28:02Southeast Asia.
28:04Good.
28:05That is a great advice.
28:06Dr. Raj Vanshi, thank you very much for kindly accepting our invitation and coming on to my show.
28:14But as I said, we are launching this show.
28:17This is the first show for me, for a series of shows I am hoping for.
28:23And I am so fortunate to have you in my debut show.
28:28And please come back to us.
28:30Now I know you better.
28:32It seems like we can discuss about several topics you brought up in greater detail that will be of interest
28:40to South Asia Monitor audience.
28:44Okay.
28:46Yeah.
28:47And now let me address directly South Asia Monitor viewers.
28:52Thank you very much, all of you, for coming on to this, for listening to the whole show here.
28:59I hope you enjoyed it and probably you will find it useful and you can stay tuned for more shows
29:08that are going to come in the future.
29:11Look forward to have more shows with you.
29:16And Dr. Raj Vanshi, you were going to say one thing.
29:19Please go ahead and finish that thought.
29:22No, this is what I wanted to say, that I'm happy that you invited me for this.
29:28And maybe there could be many more occasions to present a lot of other things.
29:35Absolutely.
29:35Absolutely.
29:36Thank you very much for coming to the show.
29:38Oh, and also I want to thank South Asia Monitor Management for giving me this opportunity.
29:45I learned a lot from you, Dr. Raj Vanshi.
29:48And I hope that the viewers that are watching this show, they are also getting benefited.
29:55Oh, and one request I want to make to the viewers is, please go to South Asia Monitor website and
30:03give your feedback and comments.
30:05I want to know what you are thinking and also tell what kind of shows you want from me.
30:12So I want it to be a very interactive and iterative process.
30:16I want to enjoy the new guests we are going to bring on to the show.
30:21And also I want South Asia Monitor audience or viewers to get benefited from that.
30:28Again, thank you, Dr. Anil Raj Vanshi.
30:32Okay.
30:33Bye then.
30:34Bye.
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