Lt Gen RS Sujlana (Retd.), former Commandant, Indian Military Academy, speaks with Col Anil Bhat (Retd.) on his latest book, Peasants to Warriors: A Travelogue of Sikh Soldiering | SAM Conversation
00:00Welcome to SAM Conversation, a program of South Asia Monitor.
00:13It is a pleasure to welcome Lieutenant General Rajinder Singh Sudlana who has authored a
00:20book. He is filled in a great part of history there. Peasants to Warriors, a travelogue
00:30of Sikh soldiering over 250 years. He and I go back to the India Squadron of the National
00:44Defence Academy. And when we first saw each other, he didn't have any beard or moustache.
00:54But since then, he has not just been a great soldier, but also, you know, became a historian
01:04in his own right. Commissioned into the Sikh regiment, he went deep into the history of
01:10the Sikh regiment, which has a very great history in battles fought by Indian Army under the
01:20British and, more important, after independence. This particular book, I feel, is a great chunk
01:33of history, which is provided to a generation like General Sudlana and mine. We were denied.
01:45We were denied the history of our own country. You know, really speaking, it's only, I think,
01:53now in the last few years that some effort is being made to put it together or to bring it. And it's going to be a long process.
02:05But the important aspect of the history of just before and after independence is something which we were denied.
02:15Peasants to warriors, a traveller of Sikh soldiering over 20-20 years is a book which explores the transformation of the Sikh community,
02:27you know, from peaceful farmers to a very formidable fighting force. It covers a period from the first martyrdom of the rise of Maharaja Ranjit Singh,
02:38from the first martyrdom to the rise of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, examining the key events, figures and military strategies that shaped Sikh soldiering.
02:50It delves into the socio-political landscape of the Punjab region, highlighting the challenges and the persecutions faced by the Sikhs that ultimately led to the militarization.
03:02It is this militarization that was required to save the Hindu race. It profiles figures like Guru Nanak, Baba Nanak, the Indian spiritual teacher, mystic and poet,
03:15who is regarded as the founder of Sikhism and the first of the ten Sikh gurus. Then Guru Arjundev, the fifth guru, who authored the Adi Granth and later became the Granth Sahib.
03:30He was martyred. Guru Tegh Bahadur, the ninth guru, founded the Sikh religion. He was beheaded. Guru Guvin Singh and Bandha Singh Bahadur,
03:44commander of the Khalsa army, emphasizing their roles in shaping the Sikh identity and military traditions. Without going much more,
03:54much more. It's a very solid tome of about 300 pages and goes into a number of parts and covers a very important period of history, a very significant period of history.
04:18Now I'll leave it to Gelsujirana to bring us, you know, up to date with how he was inspired and what all he's brought out. All yours.
04:37All right. Thank you. Thank you, Anil, for all the kind words and give an introduction, a wonderful introduction to the book.
04:45But like you asked the question, what has been my inspiration to get on to writing?
04:52My inspiration was my late respected father, Colonel Gulcharan Singh, who himself was a great historian. And I followed his footsteps into the Sikh regiment.
05:08We both commanded the same unit, third battalion, the Sikh regiment. Besides that, my grandfather and my great grandfather had also served with Sikh troops.
05:22And my great grandfather was Sardar Bahadur, honorary captain Jwala Singh, Indian order of battle, order of British India.
05:35So that was, he was a very renowned individual. It was, they were all in Gujarat where he got his marabbas in Pakistan.
05:42And of course, everyone knows about what happened after 47. Leave that aside. So four generations of our family, we have rubbed shoulders with the Sikh soldier.
05:54And then of course, I spent 40 years in the Sikh regiment and I enjoyed it. I was Colonel of the Sikh regiment and it was a great honor for me.
06:05Having said that much, having said that much, I must tell you, this is my third book. My first book was my salute to the Sikh regiment.
06:15It was a legacy of valor, an illustrative history of the Sikh regiment.
06:26Niti, I agree. Wonderful.
06:33This is just before I retired. I owed it to the regiment. I gave it to them.
06:39Then few years down the line, I came across another gentleman, Dr. Rupinder Barar, who was a renowned specialist, heart specialist in California, Yuba city.
06:51So we, our interests were common. And so we got on to write the next book. It was a joint authorship.
07:01This is titled, Along Came a Warrior, Vanda's Dharamyod and the Sikh Theory of Just War.
07:10So this has cut across very many barriers. And we have spoken about the Just War, Dharamyod and various other facets of the Banda Bahadur.
07:23And of course, leaving that book aside, now I'll come straight to the present book, Peasants to Warriors.
07:30Now, as you have rightly highlighted, this book is about in six parts. It has about 15 maps. It has four illustrations.
07:41And as an army general, I think writing a book like this without maps makes no sense.
07:49So therefore, I've got about 15 maps in this book covering various operations.
07:53Now, like, how did we turn into soldiers? And that also well-renowned soldiers the world over.
08:05I had to put that across, but I must also place things in the correct perspective.
08:10As Anil, you had highlighted that much of our history was disrupted.
08:15It is a known fact that the Persian authors and even the British authors were not fair to the Indian history.
08:23And more so to the Sikh history also.
08:27Rather, I must quote this famous writer, Alam Musafar.
08:33You know, he writes, the despising and disdainful adjectives in Persian records are perhaps indicative of the caste, community and social status,
08:48consciousness of the compilers of these sources rather than of the exact position of the Sikhs.
08:55This is what he writes. He's himself a Muslim author.
08:59And further, Thornton, who wrote The History of Punjab, also mentions, just giving the latter part,
09:06a Muslim writer is not to be implicitly trusted.
09:10Now, with those false, you know, paradigms which were set by them,
09:16we had to put them also into the correct perspective.
09:20So that was another starting point.
09:22So I'll come on straight away to the part one of the book.
09:27The part one of the book, like I have called it, it is a religious inheritance of the Sikh soldier.
09:33I must also clarify that this is not a book on religion or of comparative religions.
09:41You know, my lack of knowledge on both these subjects precludes me to make any such claim.
09:52I had to quote a few things to convey my point.
09:57And more so, I think the Guru Granth Sahib, it is for the entire world to understand, read.
10:05It is meant for all societies.
10:07It conveys a lot of thought process of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and other Gurus up to the fifth Guru.
10:17And from that, I have called out what is, you know, so much so that the soldiers also must pull out from this.
10:26So I have called out things.
10:28I have gone through the Guru Granth Sahib twice to write what I did right.
10:32So things like obedience, loyalty, discipline, fearlessness, and ready martyrdom or sacrifice.
10:44They all come from the Guru Granth Sahib.
10:47And when you talk of fearlessness, the Guru Granth Sahib writes two words.
10:53Abhay daan, abhay is dar, uska daan diya ke you will be fearless.
10:59It is written there.
11:00You have to be fearless.
11:02And habipat.
11:04It is written there in the Granth Sahib.
11:06So with that as a background and how to go around, you know, fighting with good morals.
11:13Have an ethical code which was set by the Gurus and which continued till as late as you can think of.
11:20But I just want to highlight one aspect.
11:25You know, Lungar, we often talk about Lungar.
11:29And everyone thinks, ah, because we get correlated with that.
11:33But you must put Lungar in perspective.
11:37Lungar, to my opinion, is a corporate social responsibility of the Sikhs.
11:47We are a corporate who had to do this as your social responsibility.
11:53And the person who caught on to this and wrote in his book was Hindu Bhushan Banerjee.
12:02And I quote him.
12:05The ideal of service and the inculcation of spirit of brotherhood were equally significant features of almost all the religions in contemporary India.
12:18But it was only in Sikhism that the sense of corporate unity gradually developed.
12:27So that is the backdrop.
12:29So we have to see Lungar in a more, you know, better perspective as a corporate social responsibility.
12:37And there are other factors.
12:38Otherwise, I'll finish off the time in this first chapter only.
12:41But I'll quickly now move on to part two.
12:44And the part one just covers broadly up to the all the nine Gurus.
12:49I'll just briefly touch upon the first martyrdom of Guru Ardhan Dev Ji.
12:56And when he was martyred, later on, another bircher who wrote, his name is John Clark Archer.
13:06That was what would give Philip to the peasant holder.
13:11And he writes, a flame was ignited.
13:15In the greater garden, plowshares were beaten into swords and pruning hooks became spears.
13:25That is the sort of thing where he started.
13:27It was a fellowship of reconciliation was assuming martial fate.
13:34So that is how they started switching over to soldiering.
13:38Then, of course, Guru Har Gubindji, the sixth Guru followed.
13:44Then there was another change.
13:46He introduced the concept of miripiri, which for everyone's knowledge, it is the spiritual is one part, that is the piri.
14:01And then, of course, is the miripiri, which is the temporal aspect.
14:06He wore two swords.
14:08So when he was asked to put the seli on his head by the Guru, he said, no, my seli is going to be the swords.
14:20So the spiritual sword is on the right and the temporal on the left.
14:26The spiritual thing will always be prominent.
14:30So that is what he conveyed.
14:32And he also created the Akal Takatsa, or the timeless throne of the Almighty.
14:39Then, of course, he said, these chaps will not agree.
14:44So he left Amritsar and he went to Kiratparsan.
14:49Then, of course, years followed, then the Guru Tekbhadar's martyrdom came in.
14:54And that was during the time of Aurangzeb.
15:01And he gave his head there.
15:07And he gave it, his sacrifice was for dharma.
15:14And he gave his head without a sigh, without any regret.
15:19He said, I have to save the dharma of this nation.
15:22And as one, another author, Tarlochand Singh writes, no one has performed such an act.
15:29As it was done by Guru, Tekbhadar.
15:31And that is why we call him, someone calls him duniya ki chaddar.
15:34Someone calls him hid ki chaddar.
15:36And all these names which have been given to him, and rightly so.
15:40But one thing I want to highlight is, both the Gurus, they displayed non-violence.
15:45Non-violence total.
15:47We talk of this concept much later today.
15:51But this was given by both the Gurus.
15:55You are non-violent, but stick to your, whatever your dharma is.
16:00So that is what the part finishes with that.
16:03Then, coming on to part two, basically it covers Guru Gubin Singh Ji.
16:09How he went about, as I call the chapter, stealing the hearts of the Khalsas.
16:16Of course, before he made the Khalsas.
16:19It's a very interesting thing.
16:21He fought against the hill Rajput Rajas.
16:25And because he felt that he was not strong enough, he left Anaspur Sahib and went to Ponta Sahib.
16:33And I call the Ponta Sahib as the first training base of the Sikhs.
16:40That is where he taught them warfare.
16:44And that is where the famous battle of Pangani took place.
16:47Where he defeated 22, the troops of 22 his Rajas.
16:54I have gone on ground and seen the battleground.
16:57Very interesting.
17:00So anyway, there are other battles also fought by him.
17:03And again, you know, Cunningham has put it in a very nice way.
17:12I'll just quote him.
17:14When he says he is talking about Guru Bin Singh Ji,
17:17he resolved upon awakening his followers to a new life.
17:20Giving precision and aim to the broad and general institutions of Nanak.
17:27In the heart of a powerful empire, he set himself to the task of subverting it.
17:34He called for singleness of purpose and enthusiasm of desire.
17:39He just put it in this few words, what was, you know, Guru Bin Singh's intent.
17:44Then, of course, his battles go on after he came back from Ponta Sahib,
17:50back to Ranpur Sahib, the defense of, you know, Ranpur Sahib.
17:55And then he goes on, leaves that place.
17:58He goes on to Chamkaur Sahib and then Moksha.
18:03And then he goes down south, Nandir.
18:06And that is where, you know, he is assassinated there.
18:12And overall, it was, he started the Dharam Yudh.
18:17And the Dharam Yudh, I must say, must not be taken as a war of aggression against any religion.
18:23It was protection of religion and fought on moral principles.
18:29So, that is what Guru, and there Guru Bin Singh found Banda.
18:35Banda, that time he was a Bairagi.
18:39So, he named him Gurbak Singh.
18:42But he said, I am your Banda, I am your slave.
18:46So, that, that is the Nordic way of just account to him, Banda Bahadur.
18:50Banda Bahadur.
18:53So, then Banda, he gave Banda five prominent leaders to accompany him.
18:59He gave, he gave him a sketchy on, five arrows from his, from his personal lot.
19:07And then he gave him 20 odd men and he said, now you go and again cheer up the Khalsa and bring them back to form.
19:16And it is a thing, and who was Banda? A Bairagi?
19:20But what a Bairagi? And we must also say, someone says, Bairagi kase? No.
19:28But look into history.
19:30We, our ascetic warriors were well known.
19:34They used to protect their temples, marts, everything.
19:39They had a typical way of fighting.
19:42Very interesting aspect to study.
19:44How they could, you know, yell and shout and charge, hit and come back.
19:52When you talk of striking and getting back, it was taught to us by the ascetic warriors.
19:58And he was there for 30, 40 years and that is why he must have learned his, you know, tactics of what he wanted to do.
20:05And look at his, you know, his leadership as a military man or, you know, he was a very good guerrilla leader.
20:18After leaving Guru Gobind Singh from Atandev, he took one year to travel from there to his base, which was Khargoda, in present Haryana.
20:31One year. And what was the route he took?
20:34He followed the route through the lands which were occupied by Marathas and the Rajputs, because both were in revolt against Aurangzeb.
20:43He also, to hide himself, joined a caravan, a tanda.
20:53He is called tanda. This caravan is coming. He hid himself there and came here.
20:57So that is what, that's why he came here.
21:00And if you want me to stop at any time, you must tell me.
21:04Anil?
21:05I think just a few points to add to your work is, you know, very intense and very well researched.
21:20But some things which one would like to, you know, convey to viewers is that, you know, when we say we have denied history,
21:36we, it's only in, when you go to Gurdwara and listen to a little bit of the part of the Ardaas, that you get little, you know, nuggets of, important nuggets of history, you get there.
21:54Unfortunately for us, first came the Mughals, then came the British.
22:04And a lot of our own history of, I don't know, Hindu also, Sindhu. Sindhu is the term.
22:15We come from the land of Sindh, the Indus.
22:18And, you know, there's a great history to all of us, which was, you know, I won't get too emotional about it.
22:33But there is a great loss and we have to thank guys like you who have filled in great, you know, blanks of it.
22:44Or, you know, filled in a lot of, put a lot of rods together.
22:52We owe it to all, a lot of authors who have now, you know, delved into periods of history which have been lost to us in the past.
23:04And, on a personal note, I was commissioned in the 19th Madras, from which I changed over to Four Horse.
23:14That was, that was history for me.
23:17But, in my troop, the first troop of tanks that I commanded, Four Horse has two Sikh squadrons and the third is a Dogra squadron.
23:28And in B squadron, you know, tanks have names just like ships.
23:32So, Banda, Bahadur and Baaz, these are the three names of the, you know, one will never forget them.
23:43I, I won't, there's so much more one can talk about, you know, about, please carry on.
23:50Yeah, you want, Anil, what you rightly said, Saptas Hindu.
23:55Saptas Hindu is what we were called in this area.
23:59Across, of course, there is again dispute, which was the seven rivers.
24:03We will not talk about that, because then we will go and delve into another part.
24:08But, there is a little dispute, which is the, which are the seven rivers, but we leave it to a side.
24:12I have written it in the book.
24:13Now, just furthering on to Banda, Bahadur, where he came to Khargora, then he, how he went to Chaparchiri, where he had a great battle.
24:24And, whether that, the, the local leader there from the Mughals, how he defeated him, Vazir Khan, who had cruelly murdered the two younger sahib yadas.
24:38So, finally, he took revenge on him.
24:42And, Chaparchiri was another masterpiece, which you have read the book, to see how he went about to destroy the massive Mughal setup there.
24:51Now, thereafter, he set up his headquarters at a place called Mukhlisgarh, which was early known as Mukhlispur, then it became Mukhlisgarh.
25:00Now, it is known as Logarh, the fort there.
25:02The fort there.
25:03So, it is still existing there.
25:05And, the history of Logarh also have given, how it came about, who's responsible, that's all given in the book.
25:11So, we will not dwell into that here.
25:14But, what he, not only did he fight, he gave his, the farmers their dues, which most of the people don't know.
25:22He set aside the mansabdari and zamindari system.
25:28And, the farmers started getting the three-fourths of their revenue and only one-fourth went to the government.
25:35Which, a factor which remains, they have taken wrong things that he was cool, he was this.
25:40Yes, he was cool.
25:41I will also quote that a little later, about what he thought was, but his last battle, before I tell you about that, is worth mentioning.
25:53Everyone says it's Gurdas Nandal, but the actual battle that took place was a place called Badde Wali Teh, which is about a mile away from President Gurdas Nandal.
26:06There he held on, for over eight months, against the mightiest empire on earth, the Mughals.
26:19It was no small deal to stand against them.
26:23For over eight months, he was there.
26:25So, I'll just give you two quick readings of Bandha, so that it will put others also, in case they are keen to read, they will have to quote it.
26:37Like Hariram Gupta says, in the history of the world, he, the Bandha Bahadur, should not rank less than Alexander the Great,
26:47Changesh Khan, Nazar Shah, Ahmed Shah of Delhi or Napoleon Bonaparte.
26:50He was the first empire builder for the Sikhs, a great national hero for the Hindus, a scrounge for the tyrants, and a man of compassion and generosity for the Muslims who supported his political cause, not his religion.
27:06So, that highlights everything written by Hariram Gupta.
27:10Now, further, I must also, when you mentioned about his being cruel or something, so, this is again a very interesting quote.
27:21When he was about to be killed, there was this Daula Muhammad Amin Khan standing there.
27:29So, he, before he was killed, he asked him, he says, your present demeanor exhibits the signs of wisdom and a sense of justice.
27:41How were you led to such ways that you did not consider the consequences of your deeds?
27:47He asked Banda this question.
27:49And this is, I am quoting from Sikh history from Persian sources.
27:54And Banda replied,
27:57In all religions and communities, whenever disobedience and defiance of God in excess of all limits begins to be displayed by man.
28:09He is talking about the Mughals.
28:11The embodiment of rebellion takes place.
28:15And the true avenger, that is God, then appoints someone as cruel as I.
28:24To impose penalty on the man for his sins, so that he may become the means for effecting retribution on that community for its misdeeds.
28:35Afterwards, for the punishment for his, that is his, the retributor, that is Banda himself, he bestows victory over him to a man of authority like you.
28:50So that he too obtains a punishment for his deeds in this world, as we and you are now witnessing.
28:59So this is what Banda wrote, go ahead, I have done what God had asked me to do and I have done it.
29:06So this is about Banda, he is a great guy.
29:09And of course, after he died, then the next 50 years were terrible for the Sikhs.
29:15They had a price list on the head, 10 rupees, if you bring someone alive, 50 rupees, and it went up to 100 rupees like this.
29:26So they all left their homes and they went into the jungles and the deserts in northern Rajasthan to stay there till they could recoup themselves.
29:37And totally homeless, totally leaderless, they again re-juvenated themselves and from there they came and struck back.
29:45And through the times of cruel people like Mir Manu, Nadar Shah, Abdali, Zakirya Khan, two massive Ghalugurayas, that is the genocides which they inflicted on the Sikhs, they again came back.
30:03Then they said, we won't leave you. And the missiles came about, but missiles did come about, but then they were from where the disunity among the Sikhs started.
30:13They started fighting among themselves to gain proof areas. And I must say, there's a very good saying in Punjabi about Mir Manu.
30:23Mir Manu.
30:24Oh Punjabi, I will just say, I will just say the initial words, Mir Manu sa di daathri. I will just say, Mir Manu the Sikhal.
30:34The more he cuts us, the more we grow. That is what the slogan was of the Sikh.
30:40So, now with that, you know, having gone through this period, then I came on straight, I have summed up that, you know, chapter on the state of Sikh soldiering at the end of the 18th century, before I went into the period of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.
31:02Now with that finishes, Anji.
31:05No, I'm afraid we don't have much time. There is so much that you have, which would be, you know, I look forward to reviewing the book also.
31:19One thing that strikes me is that we, you know, when we got partitioned by the British, we have more Muslims than Pakistan.
31:36Yeah.
31:37But the Pakistan army inherited a lot of what is, you know, what has come out about the Mughals, the barbarity, the, you know, cruelty, which the Pakistan army practiced.
31:57100%.
31:58100%.
31:59Yeah.
32:00A number of times, you know. Anyway, I much that there is so much, you know, more one would like to, owing to positive time, I'd like to thank you for a very, very important and very interesting and, you know,
32:24a bit of history that you've just given us a few nuggets of, very important ones.
32:33One looks forward to reading and reviewing the book also. And all the best to you.
32:40Thank you. So kind of you. And look forward to your review and whatever you have to say about the book.
32:46And of course, the latter part, I've not covered the part six and five and six, which is about Maharaja Ranjit Singh's reign. And of course, the Anglo-Sikh force.
32:57That's another, another very interesting, very interesting, because as a final comment, I'll say that the Sikhs only understood those who could beat them.
33:12They're the ones they appreciated. And the ones who beat them are the Sikhs, the Manipuris and the Gurkhas.
33:23And I must, of course, we don't have time. But when Gurkhas were initially, you know, defeated by Maharaja Ranjit Singh, he appreciated their gallantry.
33:36And when they were defeated, he said, hold on, let them go. Let them withdraw in peace.
33:41That affects so much effect on the Gurkhas that many of them joined the Khalsa army. And Bal Bahadur was the chap who also was killed in one.
33:54General Bal Bahadur from the Nepalese army also killed here, Gurkha. And by the way, some of the dresses in Gurkhas today have been taken from the army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.
34:04It's okay. As you say, no time. We won't talk much. There's so much to talk and so much less time.
34:11Thank you. Thank you very much.
34:13Thanks, Anel. So kind of you. Take care. All the best. Do well.
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