Lt Gen Kamal Davar (Retd.) speaks with Col Anil Bhat (Retd.) on how the world media viewed India’s Op Sindoor | SAM Conversation
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00:00Welcome to SAM Conversation, a program of South Asia Monitor. To discuss reporting
00:18about Operation Sindhu, it is a pleasure to invite Lieutenant General Kamal Daur, retired
00:26former founder, director general of Difference Intelligence Agency and president of Delhi
00:33Forum for Strategic Studies. As soon as India launched Operation Sindhu, Pakistan launched
00:48widespread disinformation and fake news campaign to try to gain control of the narrative.
00:57Done by the use of old photographs and videos, it was interspersed by baseless claims.
01:11The aim was to flood the online space with, you know, just flood it and make it confusing for
01:21people to make out what is right and what is wrong. On the Indian side, the Press Information Bureau
01:33has instituted a fact-check unit, which did a lot of good work. Sir, to start with, sir, will you please
01:48throw some light on the breakdown of Operation Sindhu, sir?
01:53Yeah. You know, first of all, Jai Hind to all your viewers, and it is truly Jai Hind, victory to India,
02:01India, as we have achieved in the last few days, thanks to the four-day war, which was foisted on us.
02:10And though it was a four-day war only, but it was intense, and has brought out a large number of lessons
02:18for everybody to assimilate. Now, on the 22nd of April, as you recall, was the ill-fated day,
02:25when the Pahlkam massacre, engineered by the Pakistani terrorists,
02:29were shot in the head just because they were Hindus. So, I'm glad that, for once, the government of India
02:48and the nation took very stern steps to put Pakistan in their place, because we have told them many times
02:54that terror and talks, trade and terror will not be accepted by India. And they have, I think,
03:02got their lesson in the last fortnight or so. Now, on the night of 6th and 7th, we carried out our
03:09Operation Sindhu, in which nine terrorist hideouts were targeted, and 100 terrorists were killed,
03:19and many hideouts have been destroyed. Right from day one, India told the Pakistanis,
03:24that we are only going to strike at their terror and infrastructure, and not at any civilian target,
03:30or even we will spare the military targets. But the Pakistanis, in their stupidity, thinking that
03:36they have all the weapons in the world, and, you know, given to, donated to them by China, and some by
03:43Turkey, and some by U.S., the old ones, they will be able to see India through. But to their horror,
03:51they realized that they cannot, and they've got a nice and resounding beating, and now they will be
03:58licking their wounds and thinking what else to do. India, as you remember, we were very clear that
04:06they'll, that we will not, that the, that everything we are doing will, should be non-escalatory, but the
04:12Pakistanis did not really take any cognizance of it. And the war carried on till the 10th,
04:20when Pakistanis on their own had to plead via the DGMOs, and initially quietly through their American mentors.
04:30And then, of course, the thing came in, and then we told them that we want their DGMO to ring our DGMO,
04:39as we have a hotline. So, Pakistanis were persuaded, or ordered, or whatever you like to call it,
04:46and they then spoke to the DGMO, and on the 10th evening, at 1730 or so, or was it, sorry, 1700 hours,
04:54the, you know, the ceasefire, or the cessation of hostilities, or a truce of sorts took place.
05:04Now, coming to your point regarding information warfare, the Pakistanis, as is known all over the
05:10world, are masters of, not information warfare, but they're masters at perfidy, deviousness,
05:17terrorism, and what have you. And so now they have been telling their public that they have won the
05:24war, like they even tell their, they have told their public, after the 71 war, that they had won.
05:30Have a heart. I mean, your country has been divided, split into two, and you're calling,
05:34and you're telling your public that you have won the war. I don't know how naive would the Pakistani
05:40public. I'm sure the truth will come out, as it is coming out. And, you know, we, as far as the
05:47Western press is concerned, for some reason, the other, though I think, or we all have an impression
05:53that they are free, and they bring out the truth, and this, that, and the other. But initially, without
05:59ascertaining their facts and figures, they came out that, you know, the Pakistanis have got a
06:05greater edge than India, and things like that. And maybe they also said that in some Indian
06:10aircraft have been shot, where losses in any, any war conflict are there. But the fact remains
06:17that now, when they've come to know, through all the, you know, the photographs, the satellite imagery,
06:25commercially available, and which is with us, has come out in the open domain. Everybody in the world
06:32are now saying, yes, the Pakistanis have been nice and nicely trounced by the Indian armed forces.
06:39It took some time. It took some time, maybe just about a day, because for the first two days,
06:48the 8th and 9th, there was absolutely, you know, there was a flood of negative reports, fake news,
06:59news, disinformation by Pakistan. And the newspapers like Washington Post and New York Times, they were also
07:12going to town on, you know, making all kinds of claims about loss of Rafale aircraft, you know, being
07:21knocked down by Chinese aircraft. It took about 24 hours for the tide to turn. And there, because India
07:35itself had so much of action, Indian armed forces had put in so much of action, and they had so much of,
07:45you know, imagery to prove that. After the nine terrorist camps were destroyed, and the, you know,
08:01firing of small arms and artillery on the international border, you know, had carried on, the next day,
08:14the attacks began on what amounted to 13 air force bases, air bases of Pakistani air force.
08:24And it, when we make a count today, it amounts to what we did in 2019, and the, you know, targeting Balakot,
08:38this amounts to 22 Balakots. My last question said, you know, how did the tide turn, and today, how does it stand?
08:47I think we, I think today, we, we, we stand quite vindicated, and there's not just acknowledgement, but even praise, sir.
08:59Right. You know, on the, on 8th and 9th May, between 20.30 hours to 04.30 hours, Pakistan had opened up with a fair amount of weaponry,
09:10short-range, surface-to-surface missiles that tried to target Udhampur on the Pathankot air bases. Now,
09:16India, for the first time, activated their S-400 missile defense system, which is first class, top rate, perhaps the best in the world.
09:23It was activated for the first time. And we also, you know, used our various other PGMs and things like that.
09:33And the Pakistanis lost a lot of them. As a matter of fact, there's a Turkish drone known as Songar.
09:40300 of their Songar Turkish drones were also shot. They tried to fire one, one missile, which was,
09:48which was, which was, I think, targeted at Delhi, and it got also intercepted in, in, in Sersa and Haryana.
09:56So, overall, the Chinese air defense weaponry, the aircraft they've used, and things like that, they have made hardly any difference to our deployment and things like that.
10:09And so, every, every, it's played to everyone in the world, that how strong India's air defense was, and how strong our, and how accurate and skillful our boys were, who were operating the drones and the other PGMs, which we fired at them greatly successfully.
10:28And as you know, there are press reports that even the, even Turkey had sent, given them a few people to operate this Songar drones and the other drone that Hek, Hekmatyar or what is known as, and, and, and two of the Turk operators were also killed during these operations, counter operations, which were done by India.
10:54So, there is a lot to feel happy about our air defense systems, and that they are, they are virtually impregnable, and I'm sure with the passage of time, we'll further improve them, as would be required.
11:08Lastly, sir, would you briefly like to put out this move about sending a multi-party delegation to, you know, to convince, to change the, to change, to inform, what exactly Pakistan is all about?
11:34Absolutely.
11:34Should it be given aid or not? Particularly, all the financial aid it's getting?
11:40Absolutely. As a matter of fact, India must tell America in particular, very strongly, and the other, other Western powers, that as far as the IMF loans are concerned, they must be reconsidered, handing over on a platter to Pakistan, because the Pakistanis are indulging in terrorism all the way.
11:59So, as a, so, and, you know, giving loans, and, you know, because these loans don't get utilized for the purposes they have been given, for development of the poor Pakistani public, they get, you know, transferred to buying weaponry, or being pinched by the, by the Pak Army generals or their deep state.
12:21And having, coming to your first, your other question about sending political parties of MPs, I think it's a very fine gesture.
12:28We've done it in the past also, if you recall, in 71, Mrs. Indira Gandhi sent even her so-called opponents like Jai Prakash Narayan, Harkashan Singh Surjit Basu, and, of course, the great Atal Bihari Vajwai, who, they all went, and they all went as Indians, as Indian parliamentarians, and not belonging to any party.
12:52Today is a time when India is supreme, supreme than all the religions, all your castes, all your political parties and all.
13:00And again, I think it's a very fine gesture, which, and it will create a lot of good, or I would say, correct news will be administered to these, to these countries, which these seven delegations are going.
13:15I think it's a very apt step, and everybody must welcome it.
13:18Thank you, sir.
13:22Thank you very much.
13:23Jai Hind.
13:25Jai Hind.