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00:00I think that's how you own it.
00:02That's how you own it.
00:03Because there's no coming back, right?
00:05It is what it is.
00:06And there's no really response to that.
00:09You've got to go out and play.
00:09Yeah, how do I fire back a Donovan Mitchell after that, right?
00:13I mean, and that's what we were talking about, Lance.
00:17It's Lance Reisland, Daryl Reiter, in for the Ken Karma Show.
00:20Anthony and Latton, the boys will be back tomorrow, Memorial Day, again.
00:23Just take a moment today to reflect on why, if you have the day off,
00:28that you do have the day off.
00:30A lot of men and women over the decades in the life of this country
00:35have sacrificed their lives so that we can sit here
00:39and do what we are doing this morning.
00:42And that is making fun of Kenny Atkinson because, analytically speaking,
00:45he told us yesterday that by expected scores, they're up two games to one.
00:52But the reality is, which is where I like to live,
00:56they are 0-3, and a big part of that is they are searching for reasons to believe
01:06because no team has ever come back from 0-3 in the NBA playoffs.
01:13Now, there have been teams that have come back to force a Game 7.
01:17Most recently, the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals in 2023,
01:26I think they lost to Miami.
01:29But it does not happen often.
01:33I want to say the Jazz and Nuggets in the 90s, I think, was a similar situation
01:40where it got to a Game 7.
01:42But once you get to the game, again, it's like the treadmill is put on high
01:51and it's as steep as it goes.
01:52That's what the Cavaliers are going to have to do in this series.
01:56But it really doesn't matter if they don't win tonight.
01:59If they lose tonight, tomorrow's locker clean-out day.
02:02They go into the offseason with a lot of questions that need to be asked about this group.
02:09I don't know that they can run this thing back
02:14because you're now four postseasons in.
02:20And I'll ask you, 216-474-0092,
02:24like, is this the peak for this iteration of the Cavaliers?
02:30Like, let's not downplay they're in the Conference Finals, okay?
02:35They won two playoff series.
02:36They did win two Game 7s.
02:39One of those Game 7s was won on the road after they completely laid an egg
02:44and it felt like they were left for dead in the Conference Semifinals
02:49on their home floor against the Pistons.
02:52So I want to be fair.
02:55I want to be measured.
02:57But at the same time, I'm still really grumpy
03:00that tonight is an elimination game for them
03:04considering the investment in the roster,
03:08considering the talent that I believe that they have.
03:11I don't think Kenny Atkinson's gotten the most out of these guys.
03:14Like, I feel like Evan Mobley should be averaging 30 points a game in this series.
03:18I feel Jarrett Allen should be averaging over 20 points in this series.
03:23It's like they start with the bigs and they get the ball rolling
03:29and then James Harden and Donovan Mitchell decide,
03:32oh, okay, no more for you.
03:33No soup for you.
03:34That's it.
03:37We're just going to run it the rest of the way.
03:40And unfortunately, that backcourt,
03:42and even Saturday night, Cavs had 17 turnovers.
03:47Your $100 million backcourt had 11 of them.
03:52James Harden, at least, though,
03:53had a game where he had more field goals made than turnovers.
03:56So progress there.
03:58And look, there have been stretches
04:00where James Harden's been brilliant in the postseason.
04:04But there's also been some stretches
04:06where he has cost the Cavaliers dearly.
04:10And they know he's going to be 37 years old.
04:13He likes to dribble the basketball a lot.
04:15And they are not afraid to go after James Harden.
04:19Not just defensively, but offensively as well.
04:23Like, they are more than willing to get up in James Harden's business,
04:28even though I think, too,
04:29James Harden spends more time trying to draw fouls than making shots.
04:33Like, I get that's a big part of James' game,
04:36is the action that draws the foul.
04:39But you run into some situations
04:43where you're spending too much time foul hunting
04:47instead of focusing on making the shots.
04:53So let's say the Cavaliers,
04:54is it part of when they say you can't run it back?
04:56So they've won two series.
04:57They've kind of, for me, they've answered,
04:59especially Mobley and the rest of that team,
05:05they've answered kind of the toughness,
05:07you know, the idea that they can bang with these guys
05:10and they're not getting overwhelmed.
05:11Have they answered that, though?
05:12I think they have.
05:13I think they've answered.
05:14What makes you say that?
05:16Just because they're not always giving in.
05:19They're not always giving up defensive rebounds.
05:21There is a little bit of tenacity
05:23when they're demanding the ball in the post,
05:25when they get it.
05:26There's a little bit of fight.
05:28There's a little bit of irritation.
05:30I just feel like they haven't been pushed around.
05:33And now it doesn't mean they're not giving up offensive rebounds
05:35and they're not doing different.
05:36But I don't feel like physically they've been handled
05:38like I thought against the Pacers
05:40or like I thought against the Knicks that first go-around.
05:42But, you know, is it because they're absolutely getting boat raced
05:45in this series and if they lose tonight,
05:49what if this game went – what if they fight back
05:51and they push it to seven?
05:52Does that change the narrative going into the offseason
05:55that, hey, we can run this back?
05:56Yeah.
05:57Yeah, I think it does.
05:58So it comes down to –
06:00There's a big difference between getting swept
06:02or gentlemanly swept and losing to game seven.
06:06Like, had they not advanced to the conference finals,
06:09let's say they lost that game seven to the Pistons in Detroit
06:13and it was a tight competitive game
06:15and it was another one of those Cleveland heartbreakers, right?
06:20You could talk yourself into being and feeling
06:27that you're better collectively than you are,
06:30which I think in some respects,
06:33Kobe Altman has done that a little bit.
06:37And whereas when you get swept like that,
06:42I don't care how competitive this series is,
06:45you got swept, okay?
06:47Or you lose in five, the gentleman sweep.
06:51You're – like, they're a top four team in the NBA right now, okay?
06:58Again, let's give them their credit.
07:01Give them their respect for getting to this point.
07:04They're a top four team in the NBA,
07:06which is an accomplishment in and of itself.
07:09That's hard to do in today's game, okay?
07:13And even with the Cleveland market, right?
07:16Cleveland's a smaller market in the NBA, right?
07:18You look at San Antonio and the success they're having down there.
07:21It is possible to build a winner in a small market in the NBA.
07:24I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not easy, okay?
07:28There are a lot of small markets in the NBA
07:29that struggle to build winners.
07:33New Orleans, you look at the Pelicans, the Memphis Grizzlies, you know?
07:38They get little spurts here and there.
07:41But to build a consistent, competitive team year in, year out,
07:45like the Cavaliers have been, okay?
07:46They win a lot of games in the regular season.
07:48They're in the playoffs every year now with this group.
07:51But the bar has been raised.
07:54Like, it's no longer you're happy to be here.
07:57And it's about trying to win an NBA championship.
08:00And I certainly recognize the difficulty in doing that.
08:03I've covered a lot of playoff runs over the years.
08:06I have tremendous respect for what it takes to survive, advance day-to-day,
08:11and then obviously to climb that mountain.
08:14But that doesn't mean that shouldn't still be the goal, right?
08:18And so my question will be, if this ends tonight,
08:26are they really an NBA championship contender?
08:28I would say no.
08:29I would say, okay, you're a top-four team in the NBA.
08:34You're a distant fourth.
08:35But I don't think you need to blow it up, do you?
08:36I don't think they need to blow it up.
08:38Okay.
08:38Because I've heard a lot of, like, we're going to blow this up
08:40if they don't get to the finals.
08:42It just doesn't, you know, when they look back to, like you said,
08:44you just brought up the Knicks and then coming all that way,
08:47then the Pacers, and now they've won two game sevens.
08:50And, you know, are they still ascending?
08:52Or, like you said, or is this it?
08:53Yeah.
08:54And I would argue that maybe a tweak or two they can get there.
08:57Because I think, you know, like I look at Jared Allen,
08:59I think he's better.
09:00I think Mobley's gotten better.
09:02You know, obviously I don't know how much better they're going to get,
09:04but I would still think you don't have to blow it up
09:06if you're making the conference finals.
09:08I do think there's a ceiling.
09:09Okay.
09:09I think Donovan Mitchell is showing you for as great as he is,
09:12and listen, I love Donovan.
09:14I have tremendous respect for him.
09:16I love the fact that he has embraced being a Cav, being in Cleveland.
09:21Love all that.
09:23Okay.
09:24But I do feel like there is a ceiling with him.
09:28There's only so much he can do.
09:31Okay.
09:31And they have a big financial decision that they have to make with him.
09:36James Harden's not getting any younger.
09:39And, you know, there's the thing out there.
09:42There's a wink, wink, nudge, nudge of, hey, he's going to opt out
09:44so he can then sign a two-year contract.
09:48And I don't know that I want to see James Harden here in two years.
09:51I don't know that where, what he has contributed so far.
09:57And I want to acknowledge his contribution.
09:58He has made contributions, but he's also been part of the problem.
10:02Well, I don't know that that's worth that type of a financial commitment.
10:07And I think offseason you do a deep dive on yourself.
10:12Oh, there's going to be a deep dive tomorrow morning, I'm sure.
10:17That's assuming this is the end of the road for the Cavaliers.
10:22Yeah, I'm not a big, I wasn't a big, I'm not really big on that answer.
10:26And once again, I try to be as honest as I can,
10:28coming kind of a coach's perspective at a very low level.
10:31That's kind of, that's, you never talk about offseason.
10:34You never talk about exit plans.
10:36You never talk about analyzing what you did right or wrong.
10:38Everything should be what we're doing tonight at 8 o'clock.
10:42For me, everything is how do we win tonight?
10:46Relentless, relentless, relentless on what we're doing tonight.
10:48Nothing about, you know, and I don't care who asked me what,
10:51that's what would be my focus.
10:53That's a throwing up the white flag a little bit, in my opinion.
10:56Well, I think the white flag went up in overtime in game one.
11:02I think that that was blouses for this series.
11:06I said it on the fan playoff postgame show with Jake Volnick
11:10that I did not know how they were going to recover from that.
11:14That, it reminded me of game one of the 2018 finals,
11:19the J.R. Smith thing.
11:20Remember the photo of LeBron?
11:22The rebound and taking it all out, yeah.
11:24He had the expression on his face of,
11:29what on earth are you doing?
11:30And by the way, that is the PG version of the expression
11:33that was on LeBron's face.
11:35That is the FCC-approved version of the expression
11:40that was on LeBron's face when it came to J.R. Smith.
11:44That was the thing with J.R.
11:46He took the good with the bad with J.R.
11:48That's how she went, but man.
11:50I'll tell you what, and we almost got the bang call
11:54from Sam Merrill's shot.
11:55I know, Mike.
11:56It was almost in that shot.
12:00They almost made the call.
12:01That's how close that was.
12:02Mike Breen had to stop the bang, his bang.
12:04Yeah, I know.
12:05So that's how close it was.
12:07I mean, you look at that shot.
12:08It was in.
12:08If you slow it down, it's in the rim,
12:10and it comes back out.
12:11We had a premature bang from Mike Breen.
12:16Rarely happens, but yeah.
12:18That's how close it was.
12:20That's how we'll leave that one alone.
12:23Yeah, I got you.
12:23It was premature, let's just say that.
12:27The Cavaliers are down 0-3.
12:30No team in NBA history has come back from that.
12:33Yeah, I mean, where they go from here is, for me, the big question.
12:41I think trying to figure out how they're going to get out of this hole
12:43is just wasted air at this point, because I don't think it's going to happen.
12:49I think that their fate is sealed.
12:51It's just a matter, okay, is it going to be tonight?
12:54Are they going to make us wait until Wednesday night?
12:59Are we going to have to work Friday night?
13:04So, for me, I find myself looking at the big picture now,
13:10because I just, hey, what do the Cavs have to do to win tonight?
13:152-1-6, 4-7-4, double-1-8.
13:16I think it starts with scoring more points than the other team.
13:18That's just me.
13:20Analytically?
13:21Analytically speaking, more points on the scoreboard would help the Cavaliers
13:24win a basketball game.
13:26Chelsea fight, right?
13:27For me, I just want to, I'm your big picture person.
13:29I'm a short, like, right now person.
13:32Just fight, because I think that leads to your big picture.
13:35That leads for a chance to win tonight.
13:37They've got to come out and have great energy.
13:38No, because the question that they have to ask themselves, okay, is,
13:44okay, we got to the top four, but there is a clear separation in our team
13:51from New York, San Antonio, and Oklahoma City, okay?
13:58How do we get to where those three teams are?
14:05And ultimately, the two that will be left standing, which will be the Knicks,
14:09and, you know, either San Antonio or the Thunder.
14:13The Thunder have won, or the defending champions, they have a Larry O'Brien trophy
14:18in the case.
14:19They're trying to go back-to-back.
14:21San Antonio is one of the youngest teams in the NBA.
14:24They have rebuilt that thing in the blink of an eye around Wemby,
14:30and they're going to be a force to be reckoned with out west for years to come,
14:33both the Thunder and the Spurs.
14:35Like, this has been a fun series to watch.
14:37I know, last night, you know.
14:39Is there anything out there that they can do, in your opinion, right now?
14:42When you watched that game last night, and you watched this series 2-2,
14:45is there anything, even Giannis, is there anything they can do besides, like,
14:49I would think chemistry would give you a better chance of going out
14:53and get somebody against those two teams.
14:55I really think chemistry, with this talent they have, would be more,
14:58would be give them a better shot.
15:00When you watch those games, it's different, in my opinion.
15:03The problem with the Cavaliers, I maintain this,
15:07and we're going to talk to Ethan Sands of cleveland.com coming up at 9 o'clock
15:11to preview game four, and then also look at the big picture,
15:15because I think that that's just where we're at.
15:19I wish we weren't at this point, but here we are, so it is what it is.
15:25For me, it was a moment of weakness for me on social media.
15:34This was a couple of series, I think it was in Toronto.
15:36Evan Mobley was having a tough night, and it was a tough stretch for him,
15:42and I'm just like, you know what?
15:44I'd trade Mobley for Giannis tomorrow,
15:47and, you know, I just, I've had, I'm not patient anymore.
15:52And maybe that's unfair of me, and I will acknowledge that.
15:56I just, I'm not patient anymore.
15:59Time is fleeting.
16:00Again, with the trade that you made for James Harden,
16:04there's no time like the present.
16:06Mobley's in year six, too, by the way.
16:08You're always talking about Mobley's going to be in year six next year.
16:10Right.
16:11It's time to turn a corner, for sure.
16:12I just feel like this team, kind of like their branding,
16:16has an identity crisis.
16:17Like, who are you as a team?
16:20What are you as a team?
16:21What style are you as a team?
16:24Okay?
16:25I, the fact that we're in game four of the Eastern Conference Finals,
16:31and that is a question I can't answer.
16:35Is it Donovan Mitchell's team?
16:37Is it James Harden's team?
16:38Is it Evan Mobley's team?
16:39I mean, going into the season, like we had heard,
16:41hey, this has to be Evan Mobley's team.
16:43He has to be our best player.
16:45Okay?
16:45And that came from Donovan.
16:47Those are Donovan's words.
16:49Okay?
16:51So, I don't know what their identity is.
16:53They have an identity crisis in some respects.
16:57And they've had it for a little while.
16:59This isn't just a this year thing, in my view, that has popped up.
17:03And I'm sure the Cavaliers would vehemently disagree.
17:06And Kobe Altman would probably vehemently disagree.
17:08Man, that's fine.
17:09But, yeah, I don't know what their identity is in how they want to play.
17:17I know they want to shoot a ton of threes because that's what they do in the NBA.
17:20I get frustrated when I see a game like Saturday night where the three ball is not falling.
17:24Basically, the three ball is not falling for the Cavaliers in this series, by the way,
17:29since the fourth quarter of game one.
17:31They went ice cold in the fourth quarter of game one, remained ice cold in overtime, didn't fall in game
17:38two,
17:39certainly didn't fall in game three.
17:41They've had lots of good looks, too.
17:42Yes.
17:42They've had lots of good looks.
17:43Well, their process.
17:44They've had lots of good looks.
17:46Analytically speaking, their process has been on point.
17:49They have been.
17:49And, look, I say that sarcastically, but to be fair, to be fair, yes, they've been good looks.
17:57Shots aren't going down.
17:59But this is what frustrates me about the NBA is when the shots aren't going down from the perimeter.
18:06Why don't you pivot and just absolutely feed the bigs and just, you know what, perimeter shots aren't going down.
18:15We're going to still spray it out to keep the floor spread out, but we're going to go to town
18:20inside.
18:21We're going to get the mid-range game going, okay?
18:24I hate the foot on the line two-pointers or just inside the three-point line two-pointers.
18:31I hate those.
18:31But the mid-range, love those.
18:33Love getting to the rim, okay?
18:38But I struggle with the process.
18:41I struggle with hearing about how good the process is.
18:46By the way, this Cavaliers segment brought to you by Surfside Hard Iced Tea, and always remember to enjoy responsibly.
18:53But that's where I struggle with this team.
18:55Like, I don't know what their identity is.
18:57I know they have great players.
19:00And that's what frustrates me.
19:02The collection of talent that they have is really, really good.
19:06This is not—for me, I don't think they have a talent deficiency problem.
19:10I think they have an attention to detail problem.
19:13I think that they have a fatigue problem right now.
19:17And I think that they're caught between, is this the James Harden, Donovan Mitchell show?
19:25Or should this be the Evan Mobley experience?
19:29Well, you just talked me into why I wouldn't blow it up, Daryl.
19:31Because I look at that because there is talent on this team.
19:34And if you go out and get another player, then there's this whole chemistry thing you've got to keep.
19:39And this chemistry thing that, you know, as a coach, you look at it and go, all right, I have
19:42got to get these guys to play together.
19:45Because what I see on the West, out in the West, you know, what you have to do with Wemby.
19:49You're going to have to throw big bodies at them.
19:51Cavs have some big bodies to throw at them.
19:53And, you know, there's some things that they match up with.
19:55So, I don't know if there's another, if you go out and get Giannis, if you go out and make
19:59these trades,
19:59if you go out and you blow this thing up right now, I don't know if, I don't care who
20:04you bring in.
20:05You might have a better chance with chemistry and not running it necessarily back.
20:11I think you always have to tweak and get better.
20:13But I don't know.
20:14That West is so different right now compared to the East.
20:17And we'll know more in the finals, obviously, but I don't know.
20:19Now, I think the obvious idea of taking the talent you were just talking about
20:23and figuring out what you've got to do to figure out, you know, to make sure that they're maximizing it
20:28is going to give you more.
20:30Now, if you've got a chance to go get Giannis, maybe that's something you do because he's an elite player.
20:34But I'm not sure even Giannis gets you over what they're doing in the West.
20:39Evan Mobley shot six three-pointers Saturday night.
20:44I don't know a world where that should happen.
20:47I'm old school, so I'm with you.
20:48Yeah, I think it's great that he can do it, but he's a monster inside.
20:52He was 9-12.
20:53If you take the one, analytically speaking, you take away the one for six.
21:01Evan Mobley was 9-12 from the field.
21:04Okay?
21:0621 points.
21:079-12, 24 points.
21:09Why on earth, and he only shot four free throws as well.
21:16Why on earth are we so focused on Evan Mobley shooting three-pointers?
21:24I think, too, that that's actually messed with Evan a little bit.
21:31The Donovan trade, I think, messed with Evan a little bit as far as, like, because you went from, hey,
21:38the draft and develop mentality to, hey, we have an opportunity to get this perennial all-star point guard.
21:46Donovan named to the all-NBA second team last night.
21:53You got to pounce on that opportunity, and it accelerated the whole timeline.
21:59You went from, hey, you know, being angry, you got left out of the COVID bubble down in Orlando and
22:05all that, to getting yourself in position to where you could compete for the play-in tournament and get in
22:10the play-in tournament and then actually make the playoffs without having to do the play-in tournament thing.
22:15And then trying to win a playoff series, right?
22:19And then now it became, okay, now we got to get through the second round of the playoffs.
22:25And it feels like it has been a slow burn through all of those steps, okay?
22:35They broke through to the conference finals this year, but the question I ask right now, 216-474-0092, what
22:43is the ceiling for this team?
22:45Is this the ceiling for this group of Cavaliers?
22:51Is it, hey, they get to the conference finals?
22:54Should we live with that?
22:58I mean, me, personally, I'm disappointed.
23:02I can't live with anything other than competing for championships.
23:06That's just...
23:07It's good.
23:07Expectations are exactly what you want to have, though.
23:09You don't want to be where it's okay to lose.
23:10I mean, I'm with you.
23:11I feel also, too, that, yeah, as part of that identity crisis for these Cavaliers, they have struggled with the
23:18expectations upon them.
23:20Like, I mean, it went from happy-to-be-here vibes, because it's a great locker room.
23:28It really is.
23:29But the expectation of competing for an NBA championship, that's a whole different level.
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