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00:00Who has the most pressure?
00:01Because I don't know if there's any one particular answer,
00:05and I've got to give two.
00:06I think I could give another.
00:08I think there are people who, and it's not, I mean, guys,
00:12it's not that many people, but I think there are people,
00:18and I think one of them works here at the station.
00:22I think there's a lot of pressure on Anthony Lima going into this postseason.
00:25Oh, I like that.
00:27I'm serious, because, I mean, you have been,
00:29like, I have agreed with you, but you have been the one to take the reins.
00:33I've just been riding shotgun with you,
00:35as you have just aimed and fired at everybody who dare question
00:42how good the team is.
00:43I mean, methods, things like that, but that the team's not good
00:47or that the team's garbage and these guys are not worth anything.
00:50You know, we've heard some wild, wild things from fans.
00:53My whole life has been defined by the NBA playoffs
00:56and how awesome they are, and if you guys poo-poo this,
00:59I'm going to take a baseball bat to anything the Browns or Guardians ever do again.
01:03That was last week.
01:05It was last week you said that, and it's kind of turned into a,
01:10it has kind of turned into a personal thing where I kind of want to look at Nick
01:13and go, hey, you're still a Cavs fan.
01:14I know you want to get Lima, but you still want your team to win, don't you?
01:18Like, you still want that to happen because it's kind of turned into a vendetta.
01:23And I think that you have a lot of pressure on you
01:25because you've written a lot of checks for this basketball team.
01:27So I think there's a little bit of pressure on you from outside things.
01:32But when it comes to the actual Cavs and things that count,
01:34I think there's multiple answers here.
01:36It's just who has the most of it.
01:38So I come around and I come back to Donovan Mitchell.
01:42And the reason it's Donovan, and we'll go over other names and what is at stake.
01:47You beat me to it, but I think I'm going to have a different reason.
01:49But go ahead.
01:50Yeah, because the stakes are obviously high for a number of people.
01:52But I don't want to bog it down.
01:54I want to just get to Donovan.
01:56And, you know, I heard they played some Zach Lowe yesterday.
02:00And Zach Lowe talked about how they've been, you know,
02:03to eight different postseasons so far, Donovan Mitchell teams.
02:06And some of those have been one seed.
02:08Some of those have led the NBA in point differential.
02:11You know, last year, obviously, Donovan helped lead a Cavs team.
02:15It wasn't just him.
02:16Obviously, you need a lot of help to get to 64 wins.
02:19But, you know, they gave people in this city reason to believe.
02:23And because that team flamed out in spectacular fashion in the second round,
02:29look at how tough it's been for their reputation to recover.
02:34And for many fans, people on this station, they have not recovered.
02:38They even made a defining move.
02:41They even altered the core.
02:43And fans are like, no, no, doesn't matter.
02:46They finished the season strong.
02:48I know they beat a lot of tanking teams.
02:49But they finished the season strong without any of their lineups.
02:53Like, they barely had their core lineups, what you would call their reconfigured core.
02:58They haven't played them.
02:59But when they've played, all the numbers are very promising.
03:03They've trotted out.
03:04When they have their guys healthy, they've trotted out lineups that have been at the top of the NBA.
03:09Nobody cares.
03:10And so that's the damage of another stunted playoff run.
03:14And so, yes, the stakes are immense.
03:17Jobs are going to be on the line.
03:19Whether or not they have to pivot off this core, including Donovan Mitchell, that is on the line.
03:24And that's why we talk about legacy so much in this league.
03:28And so much of what we do in the NBA is about getting to at least the conference finals and
03:33then the NBA finals.
03:35Donovan Mitchell is like one of the great players in the league.
03:38And he hasn't sniffed the conference finals.
03:41So the pressure is on.
03:42I think that nationally you are 100% right.
03:44But I think there's two answers here.
03:46I think nationally it's Donovan.
03:48And I think with his career, I think it's Donovan.
03:50And let me tell you why.
03:52It goes with what you're saying.
03:53And let me extend it a little bit further.
03:55He has been in the crosshairs for a lot of national pundits out there about how far he can take
04:00a team.
04:00And I think that Donovan finds himself right now.
04:03And some fans are going to get upset by hearing this.
04:05But you guys know this is the truth.
04:07Donovan finds himself right now in the crosshairs of his career.
04:10Are you a number one or are you a helper?
04:12One of the two.
04:13And there's so many guys in this league who tell themselves they're number ones.
04:18James Harden told himself he was a number one.
04:20And it's very, very hard to be a number one.
04:24At that body, a lot of things have to happen for you.
04:31There's only been a few guys that size who can be a number one.
04:34There's like Dwayne Wade.
04:36And then there's Steph Curry.
04:38And everything else.
04:40I'm sure there's a couple more.
04:42But I can't think of them off the top.
04:43Guys who would win a championship as a number one.
04:46I think Donovan is at a crossroads of where his career is going to be.
04:50Because if he wants out after this, if it doesn't go well,
04:54you're going to be a number two.
04:55You're going to be a big helper instead of the cornerstone of a franchise.
05:02Okay, real quick.
05:03Naturally, I think that that's the truth with him.
05:04Not only that, they made this trade.
05:06They made this trade to fit, to align with the window of Donovan Mitchell.
05:12And so if you flame out after having made that trade
05:15and gotten 10 years older at that position
05:18and then you're committing to paying James Harden,
05:21holy cow, it looks like a disaster.
05:22You're a big Zach Lowe fan from the Ringer, right?
05:25Zach Lowe had this to say.
05:27I think he might agree with us.
05:28I just think he's had a fascinating career.
05:31He's made the playoffs every year of his career
05:33and has never made the conference finals.
05:36And it's not on him.
05:37People say he's never made the conference finals.
05:39His teams have never made the conference finals.
05:41He's had some great series.
05:42He's had some clunkers.
05:43His teams, particularly in Utah, both Utah and Cleveland,
05:46have had some pretty epic flame outs.
05:48Donovan Mitchell is the guy I trust the most of Cleveland's best players.
05:52I expect him to be great in the playoffs.
05:54He's been great in the playoffs.
05:55He's been, at times, the only Cavalier you felt you could count on in the playoffs.
06:00But it's just like I kind of want to see him make a run longer than he's been
06:05because he's been such a consistently great player.
06:07And it's a crossroads pick for me also because if they disappoint in the playoffs again,
06:12they've already traded one of these guys.
06:14I just don't.
06:15He's not a flight risk anytime soon.
06:17I'm not saying that.
06:18I'm just saying, like, there just comes a point if you just lose too many times
06:21too early in the playoffs for what your pedigree should be,
06:24it just starts to go sideways a little bit.
06:26And I think Cleveland is kind of nearing that point.
06:29And Donovan Mitchell, I want to see a deeper playoff run.
06:32That's all.
06:32I also think if it doesn't happen this year,
06:34I wouldn't be surprised if he's on another team next year.
06:36I think we both agree if this if something bad happens to this team
06:40in one of the first two rounds,
06:41I'm prepared for any outcome with any guy in that roster.
06:44It's hard to disagree with any of that.
06:45Again, audio courtesy of The Ringer, hearing from Zach Lowe.
06:48And I think that that is the narrative that we have to pay attention to nationally.
06:52I think locally it's Evan Mobley.
06:53I think to Cavs fans, I think it's Evan.
06:56And part of that is going to be with us.
06:58We've been saying that Evan is the next big thing.
07:00We're saying that he could be a one percenter.
07:01I think it's because we drafted him.
07:03And also, I mean, you brought this up yourself in criticism of him.
07:05He is not Victor Weminyama.
07:07And I know that Chet Holmgren's had a little bit of an up and down go of it,
07:10but he's not Chet Holmgren.
07:11And so when you put those names with him, and I would say both of these guys
07:16were more heralded and more well-known before they came out,
07:19I don't think that matters to a fan.
07:21So I look at a national perspective of it, and I think of a local perspective of it.
07:25Because if it can't get done, I think a lot of it's going to have to center around Evan.
07:30Because of what Zach Lowe just said, I count on Donovan Mitchell to have a good series,
07:35no matter who he's playing against.
07:36And if that ends in Boston, against Boston, I think so.
07:39He will feast against the Raptors.
07:40And I think you're right about that.
07:42But I think with these three series that they're about to embark on,
07:45and hopefully the finals will see where it goes,
07:47I expect him to play exceedingly well in the first two.
07:50I expect there to be some issues in the third one,
07:53but I still expect him to be playing at his very best.
07:55We've only seen, what, one game against the Knicks
07:57that we can remember off the top of our heads that he's really struggled in.
08:01I know that he's had some struggles on how he's going to mix Darius in
08:04and things like that, but I just don't see clunkers coming from him.
08:07If he has a clunker, he'll follow it up with a 45-point virtuoso performance.
08:11Yes.
08:12So I think nationally, from the outsider's perspective,
08:16you cannot like the message that's being sent, but I can't say it's wrong.
08:20So I think that the most pressure on this team resides with Donovan.
08:24Because if they get to the Eastern Conference Finals
08:26and say they lose in six games, I'm sure we're going to have,
08:29like, this is the NBA, guys.
08:31We're going to have to deal with rumors.
08:32We're going to have to deal with, I'm sure somebody's going to say something,
08:35and we're not going to like it about Donovan not being happy
08:38or something like that.
08:39Who knows?
08:41If they get to the Eastern Conference Finals
08:42and they lose in six games or seven games or, you know, whatever,
08:46I'll probably end up like Kevin Bacon in Animal House.
08:48I'm going to tell everybody to calm down and relax,
08:50and things might be going nuts around me.
08:52Because I want to extend this for at least one more year.
08:55I understand that this is going to come to an end sooner than later.
08:58I get that.
08:58But I want to extend it at least one more year,
09:00and I'd like to have a full offseason of James Harden and Donovan Mitchell
09:04before we finally all part and go our separate ways.
09:06But it's going to be hard to make that argument
09:08if you lose in the first or second round.
09:10Of course.
09:10Of course.
09:11And obviously, you know, there are going to be so many rumors
09:14about both Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell at that point
09:17that it's going to be really, really tough.
09:20Because, you know, your window is your window.
09:22And there is, you know, we talk about, like, proof of concept.
09:25Like, there was never a proof of concept that Darius,
09:28and some of it was just, you know, the lack of luck
09:32when it comes to Darius, like, and his injuries.
09:34But also, even when he was healthy,
09:36he wasn't authoring up a bunch of big playoff games.
09:39No.
09:39And so, eventually, the Cavs said, we can't rely on him.
09:43He's going to be banged up.
09:44His style of play once we get into the postseason.
09:47Like, so we're going to move on from him
09:48and take on somebody with James Harden
09:50who has a lot of negatives in the playoffs, too.
09:52But one thing he has been able to do,
09:54like, he has been able to fill it up.
09:55He's had monster games, monster series.
09:58And he's lost to a lot of teams that were great.
10:00You know, he's lost to championship teams.
10:02He's lost to teams that have gone to the NBA Finals.
10:04He's also just the superior player altogether, yes.
10:05And he's been the superior player.
10:07Donovan, you know, we're getting to the point
10:09where if he can't get him, it's a team thing,
10:13but if he can't get to the Easter Conference Finals,
10:16like, he might have to close the door
10:18on being able to build a team around Donovan
10:22and think you can compete for the NBA championship.
10:24I think if they can't get to the Eastern Conference Finals,
10:27at least.
10:27I mean, Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum
10:29are very difficult to get past.
10:31If you can't get around the Eastern Conference,
10:33you can't get to the Eastern Conference Finals,
10:34at least.
10:36I think there's a very...
10:37With this bracket.
10:39With this bracket, with this team,
10:40how you've set this up.
10:41You know, we might hear rumors about Donovan,
10:43and I think some Cavs fans might go,
10:45you know what?
10:45Fine.
10:46I really do.
10:47And the other part of it is,
10:48is that I think Donovan might have to come
10:49to a realization here,
10:50maybe that you're not a number one.
10:52You're not going to be getting any younger.
10:54Maybe it's time to be that passenger
10:57instead of that driver.
10:58I don't want to get there yet, though.
11:00I still want to see where this can go,
11:01and I still want to see it for another year.
11:02So that's why it's so important for me
11:04to get to a series against the Boston Celtics
11:06and to win a couple of games in that series.
11:08Who has the most pressure on the Cavs?
11:092-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
11:11I'm going to get to this clip here
11:12coming up in a moment from Dan Graziano.
11:14Because it's hard to say goodbye,
11:17even if it might be the smart move
11:19to say goodbye about a certain somebody.
11:22But when it comes to pressure for the Cavs,
11:24I just think it's almost...
11:25It's a very hard...
11:26It's almost easier to answer
11:28who doesn't have pressure.
11:29Like, I don't think James Harden
11:30has a lot of pressure.
11:31He might have a lot of pressure
11:31from some of the national media
11:33because they might have it out for him
11:34considering what's happened here
11:35over the last 13 years with James Harden.
11:38But I don't think he has that much pressure on him.
11:41I don't think that...
11:42Well, James is...
11:43The funny thing about James Harden is
11:44I just think his career,
11:47his legacy has kind of been written, right?
11:50And nobody really expects anything
11:52to dramatically change with James.
11:54It would be interesting
11:56if the Cavs made like an NBA Finals run
11:58and James was instrumental in that.
12:00It was like a big part.
12:01That's true.
12:01He can improve his legacy.
12:03I don't think James' legacy
12:04can be negatively impacted at this point.
12:06Unless he goes out there
12:07and he turns in like an Andrew Bynum
12:09and throws the ball against his own backboard
12:10or something like that.
12:11Like, we know James is not...
12:14At this stage,
12:15you're not building a championship team around him.
12:17No.
12:18And as a number two,
12:20because he's had seasons
12:22where he's kind of been the second guy,
12:24and it was looking promising in Brooklyn
12:27before he got injured,
12:28and he injured his hammy.
12:29It was looking really,
12:31really promising
12:32as kind of like a number two-ish,
12:35number three-ish guy,
12:36but unfortunately he got injured.
12:37So we never got to see that bear out.
12:40And then with Kawhi,
12:41just Kawhi could never stay healthy.
12:43So...
12:44Yeah.
12:44It wasn't like...
12:45We know James isn't...
12:47You're not building a championship team
12:48around James,
12:49especially at 37.
12:50Now, at one point,
12:51I think Jared Allen was public enemy number one
12:53for maybe being a little bit too honest.
12:55But I think that he's a guy that,
12:57if you look at his contract,
12:58he's outplayed his contract.
13:01I hate that his knee's a bit banged up,
13:03but I think he's just being honest.
13:04It's pain management now.
13:04Like, this is going to be something
13:05to pay attention to.
13:07Because we know...
13:09I don't know if this is getting too in the weeds,
13:11but like,
13:11when it comes to Jared Allen,
13:13I think he's been pretty vocal
13:15about what he won't do
13:16in terms of pain management.
13:19Something that a lot of athletes do
13:21that he will not do.
13:23And we'll see if he changes his mind
13:25because he's already really,
13:26really laboring with that knee.
13:28Knees a little different than the...
13:29It was the rib cage area.
13:30Yeah.
13:31A little different.
13:32Get some Tiger balls.
13:33I mean, he might feel that it's easier to run
13:35than it is when it's easier to not breathe.
13:37I have no idea what's going through the man's head.
13:39Maybe he will.
13:40Maybe he won't.
13:41Some people were obviously critical of that
13:43a couple years ago.
13:44I stood where it's like,
13:45I can't make him do things he doesn't want to do.
13:47But there's going to be judgment.
13:49J.B. Bickerstaff judged him of it.
13:50I mean, you are expected to give in to the team.
13:54And that did not sit well.
13:56But I think that he's been fantastic
13:57with this team this year.
13:58Again, he's outperformed his contract.
14:00He's outperformed the money that he makes.
14:02And when James Harden got here,
14:03he became really lethal against teams
14:06that they were playing against.
14:07So I don't know if there's much for Jared Allen.
14:09I think we've turned our attention
14:11towards Evan Mobley.
14:12I think we've turned the national media
14:13certainly has their attention on Donovan Mitchell.
14:16I think maybe there's some with Kobe Altman
14:18because if they don't get to the Eastern Conference Finals,
14:21maybe Kobe Altman's gone.
14:23Dan Gilbert's a person that does not sit well with patience.
14:27And I think that...
14:28Well, they had a $60 million tax this year.
14:32Yeah.
14:32You know, being in that second apron,
14:34they were the only team that ended up finishing the season
14:36and kind of going wire to wire in the second apron.
14:38So, you know, there are consequences
14:40when you go all in the way that they have financially.
14:42Essentially, there tend to be consequences in sports
14:45for most managerial positions.
14:48There is probably pressure on Kenny Atkinson
14:50because of the same thing.
14:51Now, I defend Kobe Altman
14:53because it's like some of the stuff...
14:54Now, there's been things that he's done
14:55that obviously I think that you look back and go,
14:57yeah, I'd rather not do that
14:59or rather not do this.
15:00But when it comes to like having to trade for Donovan,
15:03having to trade for James Harden,
15:05there's things you just have to do.
15:06And I think he did those things.
15:07So I'll defend him to that degree.
15:09But I think that the guys that have the most pressure on them
15:11locally, I think it's Evan.
15:13Nationally, I think it's Donovan Mitchell.
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