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00:00Also, is it cowardly for the Cavs or smart for the Cavs to try to pick what opponent that they're
00:04going to take on in the postseason?
00:06The Cleveland Cavaliers are tearing this station apart, and I don't like it.
00:09I don't like that my name's been drug into it, personally.
00:12I've caused enough controversy here over the last day and a half, which I'll get to later on.
00:17By the way, a 50-win team that's been one of the most injured teams all year,
00:22you would think in most years that would be like, wow, how did they overcome all those injuries?
00:28I really got to tell you, I thought it'd be a three- or five-win Browns team that would
00:31bring everybody to blows.
00:32Apparently, it's a 50-win Cavs team that has people about to block each other on social media
00:37and lose my cell phone number and everything between shows right now.
00:41This is insane to me.
00:42Quickly, I think maybe I shouldn't have to have great memory for this.
00:47Last year's Guardians team was kind of controversial the way we talked about them
00:50because they were so bad to start out.
00:53They dug themselves into such a deep hole.
00:55And I do remember later in the year after they erased the 15 and a half games
01:00and we celebrated that and people were like, is that really something to celebrate?
01:05They got down 15 and a half games.
01:07That should be part of the story.
01:08And I'm like, yeah, but we're the Guardians.
01:11We're not giving up on a season.
01:12We're not the Dodgers.
01:14Can I just say this real quick?
01:15Because I know you want to get to what Nick yelled about you yesterday.
01:18It was Owen who stopped us from burying it.
01:21This show.
01:21It was Owen because it's like, well, you know what, you're going to look like a real ass
01:25if you say the season's over and they actually come back.
01:28And Owen was right about it.
01:29And I thank God he saved me.
01:30But similarly, do you remember earlier in the year, and we have the clips,
01:34where I was like, yeah, Cavs are the most disappointing team in basketball right now.
01:37They were.
01:38When they were 17 and 15 or whatever.
01:40The parallels there are two years ago, the Guardians started 40 and 20.
01:44It was such a hot start that the 30 and 30 start made that seem horrible, right?
01:50I mean, that's a big swing.
01:52Same thing with the Cavs.
01:54The Cavs started great two years ago, or last season, I'm sorry.
01:57This year, they started 17 and 16.
02:00They were 17 and 16.
02:01And even Kenny brought that up postgame the other day.
02:04To be a 50-win team after starting 17 and 16 is pretty impressive.
02:08It's pretty damn good.
02:09And then going from that, see, I didn't think that was something to rip on
02:13for coming back from 15 down, because that's what baseball is.
02:15Baseball's like life.
02:16There are people who are down and out, and they build themselves back up.
02:20You get a second act, maybe a third act for some people.
02:22And there's a big difference between Detroit starting really hard
02:25and them coming back to you, and the Cavs starting with 17 wins
02:30and ending up in 50-win territory.
02:32Exactly.
02:32That's a big difference.
02:33That's a great point.
02:34I mean, how many teams have we seen just give it up for the season
02:37when things don't start out well?
02:38Well, many, even in Cleveland, regretfully.
02:40And again, while having the second most missed games.
02:42I have to keep throwing it in there.
02:44People hate us throwing that in there.
02:46So, I don't know how you tell the story of the season without saying,
02:49yeah, Kenny Atkinson can never get his rotations down.
02:51And he even admitted it a week ago.
02:52It's like it's not going to happen.
02:5339 starting line.
02:54For anybody who wasn't listening yesterday, because a lot of people
02:56had school off yesterday, what did you, before we play this clip
02:58and Nick's retort to you, what did you say yesterday?
03:01Because I basically laid it.
03:03We have the clip.
03:04Okay.
03:04Here you go.
03:04You want to hear some yesterday?
03:05Here it is.
03:06Go ahead.
03:07Jason Tatum got injured last year in the postseason.
03:10We thought he'd be out the whole year.
03:12Or at the very least, we thought that he wasn't going to be healthy enough
03:16for us to see a fully formed Boston Celtics team.
03:18So, before I saw him come back, it was me of the opinion that, hey,
03:24I think the Cavs are going to represent the Easter Conference
03:27because I think the Cavs are the best team.
03:31And then Jason Tatum came back.
03:33And then I saw him play basketball.
03:34And I'm like, okay, I'm going to do some rearranging.
03:37We now have Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum again.
03:40And when those two are together, along with their stellar supporting cast
03:43that have played so well this year, I've got to now alter,
03:47because I have new information.
03:48I'm not going to be stubborn.
03:50And so now I have to put the Boston Celtics ahead of the Cavs.
03:54With that said, I'm still pretty peachy that I think the Cavs
03:59have the second best opportunity in the Easter Conference.
04:01And like I said yesterday, in the last 40 years,
04:05how many Cleveland sports teams have had the fourth best odds
04:09to win a championship 99% of the way through the season?
04:12I'm feeling pretty good about that.
04:13I hope that I was able to clarify things for Nick.
04:17And I hope I slowed things down enough so everybody could fully understand
04:21and interpret the things that were coming out of my mouth at a slower pace.
04:24So obviously Nick heard it.
04:25I tried to lay out because I just wanted ā I want peace between the two.
04:31Nick responded.
04:32Do you want to say anything before Nick's response?
04:34All right.
04:35Here in the afternoon.
04:36They, like, led the show with it.
04:37Here is Nick's response.
04:38Okay.
04:39Hey, where do you want to start?
04:40Do we start with the benefit of new information,
04:41which is basically now an admission that Lima flip-flopped?
04:45I hope that Jake put in how absolutely belittling Lima was today,
04:51saying that he was going to slow down his words for me.
04:53Yeah.
04:54Which, can I tell you, I laughed so hard at that when Lima did that.
04:59I think people expected me to get mad.
05:01No, no, no.
05:02It was incredibly over-the-top sarcastic, and I ate it up and laughed my ass off.
05:07You're being too nice now.
05:08It also helped.
05:09It did help.
05:09You talked slower.
05:10You're being too nice in the exchange here.
05:12No, it helped slow ā when he slowed it down ā
05:14I made him sign up for a compliment fest.
05:15It really made him sound like a coward.
05:20I will say, as someone who has heard it on the other end of,
05:23let me slow my words down for you, it can be very belittling,
05:27make you feel really bad about yourself when you do that.
05:30But, so ā
05:32I want to hear ā so there's more to this.
05:34I want to hear where the coward part ā
05:36so I flip-flopped because I at one point had the Cavs as the best team,
05:41now I have them as the second best team.
05:42He's right.
05:43I did flip-flop.
05:44Go ahead.
05:46I want to hear Anthony Lima actually have the stones to go on record and say,
05:51I, Anthony Lima, do not think the Cavs can beat the Celtics in the playoffs.
05:56That's true.
05:56He doesn't believe that.
05:57He's not going to say that because he doesn't believe that.
05:59Does he think that the Cavs have the best chance against the Celtics instead of other teams?
06:02There's just a huge difference between losing to the Celtics in the second round
06:06as opposed to losing to the Celtics in the third round.
06:08I think you're acting as if it's just a foregone conclusion that we would give the Celtics the win in
06:12that series.
06:13That's not a foregone conclusion.
06:14No, as a matter of fact, here's another way in which I'll continue.
06:17You're asking him to concede a series that hasn't been played.
06:20No, he's conceding it by running from them and constantly talking about these shadow games to play.
06:25But it's just trying to give yourself the best chance.
06:27Because the only way we can get to the Eastern Conference Finals is if we just avoid Boston.
06:30Have some balls.
06:31No, it's just easy.
06:33Make life easier for yourself.
06:34This is making your life easier.
06:36Hawks into then the second round not being Boston makes life easier.
06:40Yeah, but no, no.
06:40That's not the only reason anyone's doing it.
06:42They're doing it so you can say you got out of the second round with playoffs.
06:44No, it's why we're doing it.
06:45You're trying to make your life easier and then go to the Eastern Conference Finals.
06:48That is part of the point.
06:49Yes, because you don't think you can beat the Celtics.
06:52Why would you people admit this?
06:55I like Peter Lynn's thought on that.
06:57Go ahead.
06:57Yeah, I would say this.
06:58That's all I'm going to say.
06:59I think it's pretty logical.
07:00I think we'd have a much better shot to beat the Celtics if the Celtics made it to the third
07:05round,
07:05which they didn't do last year, which I brought up yesterday.
07:08I didn't hear Nick respond to my point about the Pacers getting a chance to avoid the Celtics
07:13throughout because, you know, maybe the Knicks matched up well against them better.
07:17And maybe that's the case this year, too.
07:19But I absolutely do think the Cavs would have a better shot to beat Boston in the third round than
07:24the second.
07:24Why would you say?
07:25And I kind of explained it yesterday because this Cavs team needs more time to play together.
07:30They need more opportunities to battle through adversity, all those things that they haven't had a chance to
07:38since they got James Harden.
07:39And yet they've still won a ton of games.
07:41So I do think that's part of this.
07:43I think it's smarter.
07:44And I do hope my professional sports teams are smarter.
07:48Yes, I think Boston is the better team.
07:50Fanta, they had John Fanta call in.
07:5235, I think you said.
07:52He said 35%.
07:53I'd say it's probably in that range.
07:55Yeah, they're Boston throughout the whole run.
07:57Well, you've been pretty strong, so can we go 40%?
08:00Sure.
08:00I mean, they're going to be the favorite team, but 60-40, I think that's fair.
08:03Yeah, Boston would have home court advantage.
08:05I don't understand why we have to plant flags right now.
08:09So I want to get into that.
08:10Go ahead.
08:11The thing about this gigantic flip-flop, and now I'm a coward because I at one point had the Cavs
08:16number one,
08:17and now I have them a distant number two, I guess, that makes me the biggest flip-flopper ever.
08:22Like, what would you want your meteorologist to say from a week before a big tornado,
08:28from a day before a tornado, or a week before saying,
08:31ah, I think the media is running a little wild with this tornado stuff.
08:35And now I'm on record, and I've got my meteorological seal, and so I have to stand by that.
08:40And I'm the trusted guy here in town, and I've got my weather degree from, what is it, Mississippi State?
08:45Usually Mississippi State, yep.
08:46And I have to stand by it, no matter what.
08:50And then a day before, I'm like, oh, no, I have to now tell people that they have to get
08:55into the assumed position,
08:57and all the kids in school have to get over into the closet and get into that position that we
09:02practiced.
09:02You know what? No. I'm sticking to my guns. No tornado. No tornado.
09:07I don't want Nick Wilson to label me a flip-flopper.
09:09That's right.
09:10Even though I have the benefit of new information, and I've got the Doppler.
09:13You're right.
09:13And now I see these clouds, they're starting to form into cells.
09:17If you don't change it, you're going to end up like Jonas with the thing going through him,
09:21and then them going up into the tornado.
09:23I have to stick to my guns. No, I'm sticking to my guns. I'm not going to flip-flop.
09:26Listen, you're right.
09:27I don't want to be called a coward.
09:28Right is right, guys. Right is right.
09:29I agree with you because there is such a thing as, and I have accused you,
09:34benefit of new information, flip-flopping, things like that,
09:36on things that I think you were being a slippery wizard on.
09:38However, when it comes to this, I don't know what's going to happen in the postseason.
09:41I get two rounds to win, obviously.
09:45You've got to win, but also for guys to play together with James Harden.
09:48That time is still going to be crucial, and I don't know what's going to happen with Boston.
09:52God forbid I don't want it to go this way because you don't want to wish anything.
09:55What if Jalen Brown goes down?
09:56What if Jason Tatum goes down again?
09:58You know, what if one of those pieces, like a Derrick, when somebody goes down,
10:02that Peyton Pritchard helps your chances?
10:06I think it's very silly to let the concrete dry on this before we get to a postseason.
10:14I think what the Cavs are doing, it doesn't instill a lot of confidence,
10:18so I can understand to a degree, and I think that there's way more people who agree with Nick
10:22than you and I want to recognize.
10:24I can understand where people are like, well, I want to feel tough.
10:27I've been that way before.
10:28I'm not that way.
10:29I've learned my lesson.
10:30These are big games.
10:31They need the experience.
10:32They need to get through the postseason, and you want to play the best team as late as possible.
10:37I think it's just common sense.
10:39I know we've got to go, Owen.
10:41I guess my final point on this is, this all started because I dared to be excited about
10:48a Cavs playoff run where the team now looks different.
10:50The team has a different feel because of James Harden, who's been unbelievable.
10:54And I wonder, Nick was planting his flag that he didn't think it was a good trade, and that's
10:58fine.
10:59We can all debate about whether that is because these things are going to be judged come
11:02playoff time, and Nick could very well be right if they lost in the first round.
11:05Holy cow, if they lost in the second round to not the Boston Celtics or something like
11:09that, then yes, by all means, he should be parading around the opinions and the tape.
11:16My thing is, the people that are going to be going to these playoff games, and they're
11:20going to have the Cavs t-shirt underneath their seat, and then they put it on.
11:27Should we all act like we're going into a slaughter?
11:29Because that's kind of how it feels with Nick.
11:31I thought the playoffs were supposed to be fun.
11:33Nick is going in more like, no, I want to be proven right that I don't think the Cavs
11:37are good.
11:37Well, I don't want to go crazy.
11:39That's not how I want to treat the playoffs.
11:39I agree with you.
11:40Let me just throw it out to everybody.
11:43We got five minutes before we come back.
11:442-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
11:46Do you think it's cowardly that we are agreeing with the Cavs?
11:51Do you think it's cowardly of the Cavs, and do you want to call us cowards for wanting
11:55them to pick and choose their spots, to wait as long as they can to take on the Boston
12:02Celtics?
12:03Which they haven't done, by the way.
12:04Do you believe that's cowardly of them and of us?
12:06The Cavs have not done that yet.
12:08All they've done is win games.
12:10So they have not jockeyed for position yet.
12:12Tonight they have the opportunity to because they played the Atlanta Hawks, and they could
12:16just sit everybody and then secure that spot.
12:18You know, we've had it out, and I just think it's smart basketball.
12:22I think it's a smart way to do it.
12:23This is a team that's had to go in multiple directions this year, either because of injuries
12:28or because of a great big trade with James Harden.
12:30Now, before I get to the phones here, 2-1-6-4-7-4-0-92.
12:33All it does, disagree with us slightly.
12:35Go ahead.
12:36My only problem with all this is, and I agree with you, like, yeah, let's not get to them
12:41until the Eastern Conference Finals, if we can set that up in that direction.
12:45And Lima, you're right, you brought it up yesterday.
12:48The Pacers, you know, they didn't lose to the Celtics at all.
12:52In fact, they never even faced them.
12:53They didn't have to, right, because Tatum got injured, and they were done before.
12:57And is anybody calling the Pacer fans, if they were trying to avoid them, cowards?
13:02Right.
13:03And I'm sure they probably were trying to.
13:05No, they call them Eastern Conference champs.
13:06I'm sure everyone in the East for the last five years has tried to avoid the Celtics for
13:12as long as they can, right?
13:13Because, as we saw when we played them in the second round, they beat us in the second round.
13:18It was a gentleman's sweep, I think.
13:20But we did this that same year.
13:24They didn't play that last game.
13:26It was Fan Appreciation Day.
13:27And we kind of got up in arms because they tried to get to Orlando.
13:31And then the Orlando series was much tougher than everyone believed.
13:37And I remember at that time people going, well, they're a better team.
13:41Paulo Bencaro's great, right?
13:42And he was really good.
13:43But then people started getting on the Cavs for, you know, trying to play the magic.
13:48Well, that was the best road at the time.
13:50So, to me, the only problem I have with it is between now and whenever the Celtics come,
13:55you cannot back off of being a hard-charging backer of the Cleveland Cavaliers
14:01because it is what you wanted, right?
14:03To get to where you don't face the Celtics until the Eastern Conference Finals,
14:08you have to be all in on them.
14:09You have to be ā you can't ever say, well, this series is tougher than I thought it was going
14:14to be
14:15because, no, it's what you wanted.
14:17Well, listen.
14:18It's what you wanted.
14:18It's what you asked for.
14:19If you get what you wanted, you can't complain about what you got.
14:23You're right.
14:23I 100% agree.
14:24And the Hawks do present some challenges.
14:27And I have to take a step back and say, guys, the Cavs in a series against the Hawks
14:31will have four of the best five players in the series, and that's being charitable.
14:36It's being conservative.
14:37So I'm not going to act like we should be scared of the Hawks.
14:41But, hey, things can go south in a series.
14:43We're Cleveland fans.
14:44We know that.
14:45The series that you thought you would win, like, that is why I get excited about the NBA playoffs.
14:49That's why I love the NBA playoffs is that we see more of these upsets than we used to when
14:54I was younger.
14:54When I was younger, it just always seemed like chalk every single time.
14:58So I look forward to that.
15:00I do embrace that.
15:01And, yeah, if James Harden and Donovan Mitchell lose to the Atlanta Hawks, I mean, I can't wait to hear
15:10Nick.
15:10I can't wait to hear everybody because it's going to be all-time embarrassment.
15:14And get ready because jobs are absolutely going to be on the line.
15:18And, guys, they will pivot from this course so fast.
15:23Well, first off, this Cavs conversation brought to you by the fine folks at Surfside Hard Iced Tea that ask
15:29you to please enjoy Surfside Hard Iced Tea responsibly.
15:32Second of all, if they lose to the Atlanta Hawks and they lose to Jalen Johnson, which none of you
15:39could think of off the top of your head,
15:41that you were probably thinking Jaron Jackson or something like that,
15:44if they lose to them, it's not going to be because of the arrogance of Anthony and Ken and other
15:49Cavs fans out there.
15:50If they lose to them, it will be DEFCON 1.
15:53Absolutely will be DEFCON 1.
15:55Owen is right.
15:56I'll get what I want.
15:57I'll accept what I want.
15:58If they lose before the Eastern Conference Finals to the Boston Celtics, if that's the way that it ā
16:03It's a tragedy.
16:04Right.
16:04And it needs to be split up.
16:06Yes.
16:06Because I was one that wanted to do it for years, and you kept telling me, well, on paper, we're
16:10the best team on paper.
16:11And going into this season, we're the best team on paper.
16:14And they did.
16:15That's why I'm back in on the Cavs because they went and got Harden.
16:17They made a change.
16:18They got away from same old, same old, got rid of Darius Garland and brought in Harden to try something
16:23differently.
16:24But you agree that if something happens between now and the Eastern Conference Finals, it's time to start moving on
16:29from some of these ā
16:30It would be undeniably flawed.
16:31Well, wait a second.
16:32If they ā you're saying if they lost to Boston in the second round or no?
16:35If they lost to anybody?
16:36Yeah, I think even if they lose to Boston.
16:38So, I have to hedge a little bit.
16:40Boston's Boston.
16:40I have to see how it looks.
16:41Like, if they're in a war with Boston, it goes seven games.
16:44I don't think that means you have to break everything up.
16:47No.
16:48I don't either.
16:49I have to see how it looks.
16:50But why?
16:51Because you ā we'll do that.
16:52We'll do that.
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