Dal Museo della Memoria di Bologna, Massimo Giletti conduce lo speciale sulla strage di Ustica, per far luce su quanto accaduto il 27 giugno 1980 a bordo dell'aereo DC 9 Itavia
#Ustica #Giletti #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime
#Ustica #Giletti #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime
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TVTrascrizione
00:00:11We are on board the V139 of the Guardia di Finanza, we are travelling the last stretch of the 19th
00:00:19of Italy made that evening of June 27, 1980. That evening the 19th took off from Bologna with about two hours
00:00:31late
00:00:32due to bad weather, then as the plane descends towards the south the weather improves, so much so that the
00:00:39Commander Gatti
00:00:40he decides to speak right where we are, on the island of Ponza, he decides to speak to the passengers
00:00:48This is the last time he can do it. Ladies and gentlemen, good evening, for information on the flight of the
00:00:54Gatti's cute, we are proceeding at an altitude of 7500 meters and under two minutes ago we left the island
00:01:02of Ponza
00:01:03to fly regularly, stay in Palermo, where we finish landing among those who are in the area.
00:01:13In 1980 this airway was called Amber 13, meaning all civil flights to go south had to
00:01:23It is mandatory to descend along this highway of the sky. Commander Gatti gets in touch
00:01:31with the Ciampino control tower and says the exact point where Ambra 13, Alfa, is located, after
00:01:40In three minutes there will be tragedy.
00:01:51Latitude 39 degrees, 45 minutes, 45 seconds north. Longitude 12 degrees, 53 minutes, 45 seconds east.
00:02:04We reached the exact spot where the tragedy occurred that evening, it was 8:59 pm.
00:02:11Here the sea around us is very deep, reaching 3500 meters, a real abyss.
00:02:20But over time we understood that this was not just any point.
00:02:26In code it was called Condor Point. It was a very dangerous point because it was essentially a black hole.
00:02:36Ciampino's radar didn't have the range to see what was happening in this area.
00:02:41It only reached 100 miles from Rome. But above all, the air route where it flew on the 19th
00:02:48It crossed another airway, Delta Whiskey 12, a military airway where warplanes flew.
00:02:57which sometimes did not give their exact location.
00:03:08Forty-four years have passed since that night. Endless trials have never found those responsible.
00:03:19of that horror, those responsible for the death of 81 people, those responsible for the pain of the
00:03:26families of these 81 people. A real brick wall. This evening we will try to open
00:03:34a breach in this wall.
00:03:49B
00:03:50C
00:03:52B
00:04:04B
00:04:06Yes, Rai, yes, we get it around 1.3.
00:04:108.70 received, authors headquarters in Rai, yes, on time, no delay is expected, requires us for the descent.
00:04:15At Rai, yes, no delay, we call the descent, 8.70.
00:04:21Italy, 8.70, when ready, authors seats at 110, 1.1.0, of which hands leaving, 2.9.0 and
00:04:28crossing 1.5.0.
00:04:34Italy, 8.70 Rome, Italy, 8.70 Rome, Italy, 8.70 Rome, Italy, 8.70 Rome, Italy, 8.70 Rome,
00:04:56Italy, 8.70 Rome.
00:04:57He could no longer respond because at 8:59 pm he had already crashed into the sea off Ustica. The commander
00:05:06Domenico Gatti and his deputy Enzo Fontana were in the cockpit of this aircraft. With
00:05:16there were 79 people, 13 were children, one even a newborn, all dead, all dead,
00:05:27a massacre. 44 years have passed since that evening of June 27, 1980, and relatives are still searching.
00:05:39the truth, they try to understand who were responsible.
00:05:52My sister was a nuclear engineer, she was the first female nuclear engineer in Italy,
00:05:58He had a bright future ahead of him, it ended like this. My brother, despite his young age,
00:06:07age, Giovanni was 12 years old, but he already knew that when he grew up he would become a pilot
00:06:13of airplanes, he asked to leave in my place.
00:06:16My son had the new engine, 16 years old, and he was proud to go pick up dad
00:06:22to the bus. He called me, Mom, the buses are coming, but the one arriving from Bologna
00:06:29It's not coming. I woke up in the night hearing my mother crying, who was glued to the phone.
00:06:37because they had called Punta Raisi airport and said that the plane was missing.
00:06:46Missing. But what does that mean? The next morning, Dad and I went to Bologna airport.
00:06:52and there was nobody, nobody gave you information, nobody knew anything about it at all.
00:06:58Nobody, nobody, nobody. And I remember hugging my dad and that moment was like my
00:07:08adolescence had ended in that moment. Losing a sister, losing a niece who for me
00:07:13she was like a daughter, but it was a thing... then let's not even talk about my parents. The little girl
00:07:18she used to dance and these shoes that I kept are an object of the plazzo.
00:07:28What kind of woman would she have been? Wonderful. Even though I've become a great-grandmother, I miss my father.
00:07:38my children. The fact that we don't know the absolute truth 100%, but it is a truth
00:07:47partial. What really happened that evening? Because we reconstructed it. That is, there was
00:07:55an air battery, there were planes flying that evening. Whose planes were those?
00:08:00These truths are in the state archives. It does not only concern us, the families of the
00:08:09victims, it concerns us Italian citizens.
00:08:19The pain, the strength, the determination to seek the truth is in the eyes of those
00:08:27people you just saw. But they are not alone, there are still other people here, others
00:08:33I want to greet and thank family members for being here with us. The family members of the family,
00:08:38big family, Lachina, Elisabetta, Ivano and others I met, Stefano Filippi,
00:08:45Andrea Benetti and then perhaps the most important face of the association of the victims' families
00:08:51of the massacre. D'Aria Bonfietti. So, the question I want to ask you is, in a state
00:08:59Normal, why is there a need to create an association for the victims? There is the judiciary, there are
00:09:08investigative forces. Why did you have to form an association?
00:09:13That's a very difficult question. I think it's really hard to answer quickly. But anyway,
00:09:19you have to understand that that night, when they told us that the plane was missing,
00:09:27The desperation of all of us, relatives of the victims, was total, complete. We didn't know each other,
00:09:35realize this too. I met the relatives of the victims in the distant past, respectfully.
00:09:40to the story, 88. But in the immediate aftermath of the event everyone was crying, despairing, at home
00:09:49own. And the next day, from the institutions, as you say, I expected answers,
00:09:55who saw, who knew, who had to say. And so, since then, as you all know,
00:10:02the various radar sites were still staffed by military personnel.
00:10:11That is, she tells me, if we didn't unite, it was difficult to break down that wall that was being created.
00:10:18Another important thing I want to make known is that until '86 there was nothing. In '86 I
00:10:24I started
00:10:25along with a few others and then attention was drawn to this story again.
00:10:33We'll talk about it later this evening, but allow me to say hello to a person who
00:10:39in short, he has the courage to come here this evening because in Italy it is split in two, you know,
00:10:47including the controversies that preceded this broadcast. Greetings to General Electrician
00:10:52who was Chief of Staff of the Air Force and who came here. After all, he was a pilot
00:10:56the F-104s and I don't think he has any fear in confronting them and carrying forward what they
00:11:02These are his theses. Thank you, General. We'll talk to you later. Obviously, whenever you want to speak.
00:11:09She knows she can call me. How does this evening begin? It begins with the ex's words.
00:11:17Prime Minister Giuliano Amato because he is the one who sheds new light on a story that was starting to be
00:11:23A bit forgotten. He gave an explosive interview in the Corriere della Repubblica that I want to tell you about.
00:11:29Read. What does Giuliano Amato say? The most credible version is that of responsibility.
00:11:35of the French Air Force with the complicity of the Americans who participated in the war
00:11:40aerial in our skies on the evening of that June 27th. This is a very strong jacuzzi that
00:11:51It reopens a whole world of tensions, of even complex relations as we know with France.
00:11:58France never responded. But at this point we must retrace history.
00:12:03of that flight because many of you who are watching us were not even born on that June 27th
00:12:08of 1980. So I'll take you to that day and I'll take you where it started, where it had to start.
00:12:15And it actually left. Bologna was on the 19th. We've prepared the graphic that tells you about it.
00:12:22It was supposed to leave at around 6pm but there was a storm in Bologna, a thunderstorm
00:12:28incredible that moves the departure time to 8pm and a few minutes. So we are two
00:12:33hours late. It travels across the entire central part of Italy, passing the capital,
00:12:39you arrive at the sea and be careful because before arriving in Sicily, between the countryside and the
00:12:46Sicily is exploding. That's the last moment. It's the last moment. I want you.
00:12:52also show the images of the rescue because it was 8.59pm on June 27th, but the first
00:13:01Real rescue arrives very late. Here they are, the images, the remains emerging.
00:13:07of the plane, of the airplane, there are life jackets, but be careful because here it is. This is one
00:13:12of the bodies of the 81 victims. There's also something I want to show you. It's a helmet.
00:13:23We placed it here near me. It's the helmet of an American pilot who died in a
00:13:30Mission in the Mediterranean. It has something to do with Ustica, we'll find out this evening. But now we're leaving.
00:13:36with the question to which the answer remains unclear even today: Why did the plane crash?
00:13:44So right at the beginning there is the first sensational red herring. It is said that on board
00:13:49A phone call arrives at the Corriere della Sera. On board was the black terrorist of the NAR, Marco
00:13:55Tired. He had to do an unclean operation, you will recognize him by his watch.
00:14:04and so on. It makes it clear that if it happened it was because there was a man like this
00:14:09like inside and so it was a bomb. Obviously this is a red herring but it sets off
00:14:15from some inferences. Then we come to the first point. It was a structural failure.
00:14:23because obviously no one could think of a bomb or the possibility of a missile.
00:14:28structural. I spoke with Cesare Plantuli who was the commander the day before
00:14:34He had done the same route. He told me, dear Massimo, that plane was overhauled
00:14:40Totally the year before, so it was perfect, I flew there the day before. It wasn't that.
00:14:45It's clear that everyone then understands that that couldn't have been the issue. So what?
00:14:51Is it done? It's going on two lines. Two elements remain. Or a bomb exploded inside the plane.
00:14:57or a missile. But if it had been a missile, what does this presuppose? A battle.
00:15:06Airborne. A dogfight. So there must be military aircraft in the air. The Air Force
00:15:14What did the military always say on television programs in the 1980s? Look at that.
00:15:24The Air Force and NATO air forces have confirmed with documents that at the time of the
00:15:29In fact, there were no aircraft in flight in the area. No aircraft were present in the vicinity.
00:15:35of the 19th. The air defense system that evening did not see anything anomalous or
00:15:41abnormal or strange traffic in the vicinity of 19 Italy. Military utility is excluded
00:15:46that airplanes were flying over the area. General Pisano stated this in his report.
00:15:51expressed in an unusual sentence. The evening and time of the accident of 19 Italy occurred
00:16:02there was no volatile activity, as the Pisano report puts it, in progress.
00:16:09There was no other aircraft within 50 or 60 miles except the 19th which suffered
00:16:16the accident.
00:16:20So, General Tricarico, you were the Chief of Staff of the Air Force that year.
00:16:26I think he was a lieutenant colonel. Why has the Air Force always given this version?
00:16:33On what basis? Obviously also the political class, the ministers in Parliament,
00:16:39Did the Prime Minister follow this line?
00:16:42Look, I am proud to confirm word for word everything that these colleagues of mine
00:16:49which I reviewed with great emotion, they stated in those places. The trial proved them right.
00:16:59100%.
00:17:02No, no, but excuse me, excuse me a second, I asked you a question. Then we'll get into the discussion.
00:17:08of the trials, etc. Because the Air Force always said that there were no aircraft
00:17:13military personnel in the area that evening? That is the question.
00:17:17So, you said I was a lieutenant colonel, that's true. At the time, coincidentally, I was in charge.
00:17:24of air defense at the General Staff. We delivered, because it was I who signed
00:17:30the telegram that gave this authorization, all the air tracks that concerned that area
00:17:39at that time. The air tracks were numerous because we gave the radar ones
00:17:44of Potenza Picena, those of Poggio Ballone and those of Marsala. We gave approximately 800
00:17:49traces, if I remember correctly. Also a comparison with civilian radars that were less efficient,
00:17:55however we integrated it with our data and they confirmed exactly what then
00:18:01it emerged unequivocally in the process.
00:18:03In your opinion, even today, you tell me, there were no military aircraft in the area?
00:18:09According to justice, and in my opinion, of course, it is according to justice. That is, it was unequivocally
00:18:17during the criminal trial it was established, fixed, that there was no aircraft in the area
00:18:24of 50.
00:18:25Here, but I want to show them, thanks to today's technology, thanks to work
00:18:29what a third party, the Polytechnic of Milan, did, what can be seen on the maps that
00:18:36I'm about to show them to you for the first time in a special way. And then we'll explain them to you.
00:18:42Please send me the images of these two important graphics. This is the first one.
00:18:49You can see in yellow what the radars of Ciampino, Poggio Ballone and Marsala see, from a
00:18:58The hours are from 8:20 PM to 9:05 PM. All those yellow dots are air movements.
00:19:09Attention! Now I'm going to show you another important graphic. And this one can really...
00:19:17do with today's technology, cross-referencing all the radar data, the radar tracks.
00:19:22Look what appears. Would you mind looking closely, please? Here it is. In blue you can only see what
00:19:29see the Marconi radar, which was in Ciampino, in Rome, to which however it is not possible to attribute
00:19:38an identification. That is, they are traces, some of which may also be errors, certainly,
00:19:49of radars, but the point that the experts will now explain is that if they are, as you see, of
00:19:56very blue areas close to each other. It's unlikely that they are errors. Osnato, a lawyer
00:20:04many people who have many victims, even his brother-in-law was the deputy Fontana, the deputy
00:20:11pilot. What does this graph tell us? They are plots of only primary that identify some
00:20:18Planes with transponders turned off, near Italy's 19th. The red stripe is 19th.
00:20:26The red streak is 19. Those are tracks of unidentified aircraft, I repeat, unidentified.
00:20:33This is the greatest proof of the mystification of the declarations made by General Tricarico,
00:20:38that he himself admits to having been irresponsible for the person who transmitted the data to the judiciary
00:20:45and when she wants we will demonstrate and also talk about the data that he gave to the judiciary
00:20:52and we will understand what General Tricarico gave, or rather, what he did not give to the judiciary
00:20:58Italian.
00:20:59Excuse me, General, but in light of this graph, I'd like to ask you something. They weren't initialized,
00:21:08It's a technical term, on the register, that is, the radar operator did not assign a name to some
00:21:18signs that started and saw on the radar?
00:21:22Look, if you give me 30 seconds I'll explain, obviously if lawyer Snada agrees,
00:21:29well, because first of all he is very expert in these things, so I have to be careful about
00:21:35what I say.
00:21:35You've been telling this story for years, but give me the right to reply.
00:21:38Look, Asnato, please, I'd like to speak one at a time, because that's how I'm used to it.
00:21:44At that time?
00:21:44That's what I'm used to. So, air traffic is basically controlled by two entities,
00:21:50one is air defense, another is civil air traffic control. Very well, the data from the
00:21:56two are systematically exchanged automatically, correlated and with each trace that
00:22:03you see on the radar a license plate is assigned, an identification. So that evening everything
00:22:09the track...
00:22:09We have some shots, I want to show where we are too, I'm talking to Fabrizio
00:22:13the direction, because this is a very important symbolic place, more than being on me we are
00:22:19on the general place, because this is a place where 81 people are remembered whose names are not known
00:22:26He still knows why they were killed. That's the important point.
00:22:31Chiletti, let me conclude this courtesy.
00:22:33Yes, please.
00:22:33So, so there is this continuous correlation between civilians and military and every trace is
00:22:40identified. It would be a disaster if this were not the case, because at that point defense measures would be triggered.
00:22:44air force that I don't want to talk about now. So, that evening, even according to NATO, there were
00:22:5121 traces that needed to be verified. Let us remember that NATO only provided them in 1997, after
00:22:59thousands and thousands of letters, even Prodi had got involved, Veltroni, in 1997 speaks
00:23:05of 5 unknown aircraft, not identified in that list that I have here in my document
00:23:10in hand. But before it had always been said that there were no military aircraft, then suddenly
00:23:18It turns out there are, general.
00:23:20Giletti, let me tell you what a court of this Republic has ascertained and what
00:23:27It was later confirmed by the Supreme Court. So I am reporting the facts, not the
00:23:31My opinions. 16 tracks were identified, 5 remained unidentified, even the last ones
00:23:385 were identified, 2 were from F-104, one was possibly from an AVAX aircraft and the fifth
00:23:46I don't remember it. So that evening, all the tracks, like 365 days a year, are identified.
00:23:55Whoever flies in the Italian cerito comes...
00:23:57So, General, for you there were no military flights that evening?
00:24:01Not for me, for justice, Giletti, for justice. If you'll bear with me...
00:24:08No, just a moment, you've had your say. Professor Dallamese, I'm asking you to intervene.
00:24:14These pictures that we made today, of this huge series of symbols that are signals
00:24:20of hypothetical presences, that is, we need to see how much there is no extension
00:24:28of these signs in the radar zone. What do they actually identify?
00:24:34So, you have to be... you have to distinguish things. If you go back to the moment it happened...
00:24:44the accident, actually, looking at what the radars see, it seems that around the 19th
00:24:51there is nothing, there are no recorded traces. The fact is that it is not true that all the planes
00:24:58flying in Italian airspace are registered. There may very well be some
00:25:05military aircraft in particular, because the civilian ones all have the transponder that they must
00:25:10Keep it on by law. Military aircraft, if their transponders are turned off...
00:25:15Straight question. In your opinion, was there a plane in flight that night?
00:25:19Of course. If you look in detail at the plots surrounding the time of the accident,
00:25:27it will be found that there is definitely a fast track that intersects the route of the 19 and this
00:25:37it is an unequivocal indication of the presence of military aircraft.
00:25:42General, I ask you for patience because the confrontation will be even later. This
00:25:46It's your vision, but I tell you that this evening we will listen to some testimonies
00:25:51of air force men who say very particular things. So, I want them
00:25:55show what the radar system was, because the problem is the radar system. In a country
00:26:01Normally, the matter would have been very simple. There are radars, let's see what they saw.
00:26:07We send the graphics to show. In 1980, I remember, not all under military control the
00:26:14Italian radars. There are several of them. The plane takes this route and encounters many radars. So,
00:26:20Osnato, I want to ask you immediately what you found, then opening the investigations,
00:26:26asking and knocking on the doors of the Air Force to get the shots, the reels, the documents,
00:26:33Attendance registers. Let's go step by step.
00:26:37Essentially very little, but very little indeed. The judiciary does to the Air Force
00:26:43that, unlike what General Tricarico said, the Air Force
00:26:48controlled both the military radar sites and the Ciampino site which was responsible for the control
00:26:53civilian. It was commanded and operated by Air Force personnel.
00:27:00Exactly, who was in charge. In short, then there are a whole series of controls that are
00:27:03of the Air Force, because also the management of civil flights and the Air Force
00:27:07military. We have a whole series of sites, if you want we can identify them.
00:27:11No, you have to tell me what you found there.
00:27:14So, let's start with the question, Dr. Giletti. The judiciary is asking the Air Force...
00:27:19Military, give me everything regarding the radar tracks of the lower Martirreno. The news
00:27:25It is modified by the Air Force and by the SMA, Air Force commands
00:27:31military, saying we only give the alignment between Ponza, Ustica and Palermo. Meaning, translated
00:27:39in Italian, which have erased all the radar context. After that they indicate how
00:27:45only sites that may have recorded the Sicolo of Licola, which is a phonetic site
00:27:50manual, if you want we can go back to it, it doesn't record. What did you not find? Me
00:27:55Say it in Italian everyone can understand. Torn pages, missing records.
00:28:00We found, but to tell you, look, at Poggio Ballone we found, we should have
00:28:04to find the reels after ten years, since they hadn't told us he had recorded them
00:28:08of registration, they were sent to us. During the Air Force he made them disappear.
00:28:14However, we found the print of these reel-to-reel recordings.
00:28:18In this sense, excuse me, did they arrive in Trapani with some Carabinieri who were listening?
00:28:22The Carabinieri arrived in Trapani, the suitcase was exchanged and when it arrived at the magistrate's
00:28:26It was empty. This is a move made by the Air Force and the SMA. After that, in Poggio
00:28:32Ballone, however fortunately the printings of these recordings had escaped, but alas
00:28:37These prints are all cut, they have a four minute gap, when we talk about it
00:28:42if he wants, at a certain point there is an intersection of an unidentified military aircraft that enters
00:28:49underneath the DC-9 and then it has two more holes. Coincidentally, and some people might even be sorry,
00:28:55three minutes before the DC-9 exploded and three minutes immediately after the explosion.
00:28:59They gave us this. If you want, we can go down. At Ciampino they gave us eight registration pizzas.
00:29:05of the radars, only two, the ones that were convenient for him. Excuse me, and all the others? Martina Franca,
00:29:10Licola, Marsala, Syracuse? Martina Franca, we had total devastation, they didn't
00:29:15absolutely nothing given. We know that Martina Franca was interested because
00:29:19We have telephone records calling Martina Franca. Martina Franca was
00:29:24a site of absolute importance. Iaco Tenente is another site that you see there, which they will give us
00:29:30very little indeed. We are certain that it had recorded that track of the Libyan MIG,
00:29:35which will fall at Castel Silano, but that piece of junk was made to disappear and was not delivered
00:29:41to the judiciary. Syracuse was a site that was absolutely relevant for the identification
00:29:47especially of the flights of the lower Ionian and the lower Tyrrhenian. Syracuse, alas, that day
00:29:54It was under maintenance. Marsala was the place where they made video games, and evidently the controllers were in Marsala.
00:30:02they were playing video games, they put it on, four minutes after the loss of the 19th, they put it on
00:30:09on a video game and we have a throw first of eight minutes and then of 26 minutes.
00:30:14So, in the end? They didn't give us anything. Are you sure, Professor, from the month?
00:30:20I can say what they gave to the prior judge. Something was given to the prior judge,
00:30:26The lawyer is largely right. Poggio Ballone did not have the tapes because they had them
00:30:33reused and gave us the paper, in which paper...
00:30:38In short, there are major shortcomings, from what I see. General Tricarico...
00:30:42May I add...
00:30:43May I add...
00:30:44One moment, General Tricarico...
00:30:46So, I read what he said...
00:30:48These shortcomings were found in court, huh?
00:30:52Giletti...
00:30:53I mean, actually... No, but I saw them in the reports too...
00:30:56Giletti, I read what you said about the months in your report.
00:31:01No, no, just tell me if any pages have been taken away, for example, as I understand them.
00:31:05in some registers.
00:31:06No, that way he'll remember it. He says about a month, in an area of ​​about 50-60 miles, around the
00:31:12site of the accident, both to the air defense systems and to the civilian ones.
00:31:18show traces of other aircraft significant for the accident. After that, says the
00:31:25judgment...
00:31:25No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I asked her. So, general, general,
00:31:31we'll see everything.
00:31:32I asked her if all these items that were stolen or not delivered,
00:31:38It was sensational that all that suitcase disappeared, the contents of the suitcase disappeared in Trapani
00:31:43Birgi and attached to the documents where the Poggio Ballone reel should be delivered, it never arrived
00:31:49in court.
00:31:50That's not true. Look, I don't want to use words...
00:31:54Don't tell me it's not true, sorry, it's all on record, I saw it with my own eyes,
00:31:59these minutes.
00:32:00Listen to me. 1,750,000 pages have been written about this tragedy,
00:32:104,000 witnesses have been heard, and there are more in circulation. All this hasn't held up...
00:32:16Lawyer, excuse me, I asked you a question because I saw the minutes.
00:32:20We don't have...
00:32:21With my eyes it's gone, this coil is gone.
00:32:24Nothing is missing.
00:32:26Okay, so we saw some... Lawyer Snato, has she disappeared or not?
00:32:30I've seen some false reports.
00:32:31Everything that was supposed to be there is gone.
00:32:34We have two million documents, dear general, because you made all of them disappear.
00:32:39that it simply had to be there and we were forced to figure out what would be there
00:32:45It had to be through a study of two million documents which indirectly had to
00:32:51recall the presence of those documents.
00:32:54Lawyer...
00:32:54Are we kidding or not?
00:32:56Mr. Lawyer, listen, just to make sure I understand correctly...
00:32:59Well, because I think you're having trouble understanding, General.
00:33:03General, you have difficulty understanding well.
00:33:06Lawyer, let me speak.
00:33:08Oh, you're welcome.
00:33:09You have to confirm to me that at this moment you said that I, the Air Force, did
00:33:14all those things you mentioned disappear.
00:33:16Should I confirm this or not?
00:33:17I confirm it or I understate it.
00:33:19The destruction of evidence.
00:33:20This is because he wants to file yet another complaint, the face.
00:33:23Are you confirming this for me or not?
00:33:25I absolutely confirm this to you, go ahead and file a complaint.
00:33:30Well, excuse me, General Tricarico.
00:33:33And in all the minutes the disappearance, please, is in all the minutes the disappearance of the registers
00:33:42in some bases to prevent it being known who the men operating in that area were
00:33:48evening.
00:33:49Doctor Giretti.
00:33:49And he even intervened, even, Borsellino on the radar of Marsala, on the basis of Marsala
00:33:56and found that there were many more people present than the Air Force had provided in its records.
00:34:02Unitary.
00:34:03Doctor Giretti.
00:34:03Those are on record and I'm sorry, General, I have to contradict you.
00:34:07Doctor Giretti.
00:34:07I told him for a moment.
00:34:08We even found out that there was a radar squadron doing this
00:34:13investigation which was placed at the half terme and was dismantled in 1981, the first
00:34:21January, I think, six months after the tragedy that no one, not even you, I believe, knew about.
00:34:27I know, I don't know if you, General Tricarico, know that this radar squadron existed at
00:34:36half of which was dismantled in the media, of which no one asked for data or anything.
00:34:41Are you aware of this?
00:34:42So, a radar center was installed at the half terme when it was realized
00:34:50that a gap in the air defense between the Marsala radars was no longer tolerable
00:34:56and Syracuse and that of Lido.
00:34:58But was the first one dismantled, taken away?
00:35:01I'm not aware of this, I can't confirm it to you, I only know that there was a hole there in '80
00:35:06which was then filled in by legislation.
00:35:10Thank you, just a moment, I have time and I want to let a lot of people speak, we have a lot of videos.
00:35:16If I may, I ask the general why after ten years they still hadn't given the judiciary
00:35:25the list of those present at Ciampino during the civil control and we were forced to understand that there were 60 controllers
00:35:31to find the names of the 60 controllers because we fortunately found the register of coffee vouchers
00:35:37and the Air Force did not tell us for ten years the names of those who had followed the flight
00:35:43of the 19th.
00:35:44Can you give me an answer on this?
00:35:47Where were you, General?
00:35:50She is stringing together a series of lies, falsehoods with truly enviable ease.
00:35:56She is a liar.
00:35:58Very well, I'll take Korean so we can make peace and settle things.
00:36:01Very well, that's the premise.
00:36:04Very good.
00:36:04Second, I am an Italian citizen, I still believe in justice.
00:36:08I have doubts.
00:36:11Very good.
00:36:12I have doubts.
00:36:13We will also deal with this.
00:36:14And he became a general, he did what he wanted to do as a general.
00:36:18Now he should have the dignity to keep quiet.
00:36:20After that we talk about the prior.
00:36:22This should do.
00:36:22After that we talk about the prior.
00:36:24Wait a minute, let's get to the point.
00:36:26First I want an answer.
00:36:27Have dignity, General.
00:36:27Have dignity.
00:36:28One moment, please, please.
00:36:31There's a person backstage who will come in shortly and tell us about a highly confidential document.
00:36:38I wanted to ask myself, how this person has always had to deal with, as I was saying, documents which in jargon are called
00:36:45classified,
00:36:47if by any chance he was aware of the presence of this squadron in Rada, which the general said was not there
00:36:53knew nothing about it,
00:36:54can speak.
00:36:55He was an Air Force Marshal until recently.
00:36:59Good evening.
00:37:00Good evening.
00:37:00Good evening.
00:37:02So, I ask you this question, maybe you will give me a negative answer.
00:37:06In my investigation I got an indication that there was a major Radar squadron there at Mezze.
00:37:13Does this sound like a good idea to you or not?
00:37:15Absolutely yes.
00:37:16At Mezze a Terme there was a Radar squadron, as there was in many other airports
00:37:22and which the air defense then gradually dismantled to make all remote radar warheads.
00:37:31But then in your opinion, excuse me, given the proximity to the area where the plane crashed, it would have made sense
00:37:39see what this area had seen?
00:37:43Certainly yes, absolutely.
00:37:45But has it never been known?
00:37:46No, because it was practically closed in January '81.
00:37:52So, stay there and talk about that later...
00:37:55But I would like to say one thing, if I may, Dr. Giletti.
00:37:58Yes.
00:37:58When I hear that civil air traffic and military air traffic were controlled by different bodies,
00:38:06It is not true.
00:38:07In 1980, and General Tricarico should remember this well, the air traffic assistants
00:38:16and the air defense control assistants were all Air Force under-officers.
00:38:22Everyone.
00:38:22There were no civilians yet.
00:38:24All civilians passed through between late 1980 and 1981.
00:38:32So, let's move on.
00:38:34I met a man in person who never spoke.
00:38:39He is also a former Air Force Marshal
00:38:44and that night of June 27 he had an important role in Marsala, because he was the Sala boss.
00:38:50And Marshal Sardu, listen to what he tells us.
00:38:56He takes a picture of me from that evening before the tragedy.
00:39:00What was there?
00:39:02So, before the tragedy, there was always normal traffic.
00:39:06There are airliners, even military aircraft.
00:39:09Were there any friendly military planes?
00:39:12There certainly were.
00:39:14Friendly military aircraft were there, certainly.
00:39:16Or Glossetto made it clear that there was some movement.
00:39:19So that evening, before the tragedy, there was some military movement going on.
00:39:25Sure, there was some movement above us.
00:39:28Above what do you mean?
00:39:31Campania and Sardinia, definitely, yes.
00:39:34But if military aircraft don't turn on the codes, we can't see them well on the radar,
00:39:42because there are also some grey areas.
00:39:44But in your opinion, are these planes actually, we can say today, real?
00:39:50For us they were friends.
00:39:52Were they friends?
00:39:52Friends by force, because otherwise the radar Grossetto or Licola,
00:39:59they warned us that there was some intruding plane.
00:40:03But for us it was everything...
00:40:04NATO pact aircraft.
00:40:06Of the NATO pact.
00:40:08American, English, Belgian planes.
00:40:11The important thing is that they were from NATO.
00:40:14But where did those planes end up?
00:40:16Because the trail disappears at a certain point.
00:40:18They go down hanging, flying low, so as not to see them at all.
00:40:22So she says, if someone has an idea to do an attack operation,
00:40:28is everything turned off?
00:40:28And it turns everything off.
00:40:29And it makes it much more difficult to see.
00:40:33Exact.
00:40:34And we don't see Nato Fino at all.
00:40:37She was at the Mattarella Commission, at the time she was Minister of Defense,
00:40:40at a certain point, if I'm not mistaken, a Carabinieri general asks her a specific question.
00:40:45But if they were all friends, those you saw,
00:40:50in the event that someone launched a missile?
00:40:54It's just that, of course, if there were four of us in that room,
00:41:00One of the four of us launched the missile.
00:41:06So he's a friend, of course.
00:41:08That evening, the strange thing is that all the radar centers have something anomalous.
00:41:14That is, Syracuse was shut down for maintenance.
00:41:19We, Nicola, the same, there was something wrong.
00:41:22But then, in light of everything that happened,
00:41:26I wonder why, even though it was clear that there were military flights,
00:41:34Air Force officials have been saying for years that there were no planes in the area?
00:41:43This, if they never called us to say what happened and what did not happen,
00:41:50everything remained suspended, things.
00:41:56For the first time, after 40 years, an Air Force soldier admits
00:42:02that that evening, from the base where he was, in Marsala,
00:42:06something north of Ustica, north of where it crashed on the 19th,
00:42:14he had seen some military aircraft, friends, in flight, they were in that area.
00:42:22Even now another airman, who had a task,
00:42:28he will have an extreme task in his life, one of extreme confidentiality,
00:42:32because his life is only, exclusively, tied to confidential documents,
00:42:38sometimes even to be destroyed.
00:42:39This evening he comes to talk about something very delicate.
00:42:43So, where were you on June 27th, Marshal?
00:42:47On June 27th I'm going to visit a...
00:42:51She was very young.
00:42:52I was very young, I was 19 years old.
00:42:55I was in service at the first air region of Milan
00:42:57and I go to visit in the evening, around 8.35pm, 8.40pm,
00:43:02a colleague who was on duty in the operations room
00:43:07of the Regional Air Staff.
00:43:12Chatting between friends, nothing more, nothing less.
00:43:16After that, at a certain point, I will have remained there perhaps throughout,
00:43:2145 minutes, an hour, no more,
00:43:24at a certain point a first communication arrives
00:43:27from the first ROC of Montevenda.
00:43:30It was an important radar center.
00:43:33Absolutely.
00:43:34Let's talk so that everyone at home understands.
00:43:37Of course, in the Armed Forces there was the first ROC of Montevenda,
00:43:40the second ROC at Terminino,
00:43:41the third ROC in Martina Franca,
00:43:43which was basically the control center
00:43:45of complete air defense.
00:43:47What does he say?
00:43:48What message comes from the first ROC?
00:43:51That a plane crashed.
00:43:53This is the first message, a plane crashed.
00:43:57After that, for about 15-20 minutes,
00:44:01classified messaging has arrived,
00:44:05phone calls and so on.
00:44:07A non-commissioned officer who is on duty in the operations room,
00:44:09at that moment he notifies the officer who is on duty in the operations room,
00:44:13who warns General Mura,
00:44:16who was the commander of the first air region.
00:44:1921 and 25 gets us all out of the operations room,
00:44:24completely,
00:44:26and he calls us the next morning at 7.30,
00:44:31at 8.30, at the official club.
00:44:35The next morning he calls those 13-14 people
00:44:38who were on duty that night,
00:44:39more me who was there,
00:44:42really by chance,
00:44:44and tells us
00:44:45Guys, please remember,
00:44:47the absolute silence of what happened last night,
00:44:51these are things that can happen,
00:44:54we'll figure out who beat what.
00:44:57And this is a phrase that has remained in my nineteen-year-old mind,
00:45:02I'm 63 now,
00:45:03Always,
00:45:05but for the work I've done
00:45:07and for the milking,
00:45:10or rather the confidentiality obstacle that they immediately gave me.
00:45:15To make it clear to all those who are following us,
00:45:19his career
00:45:21it has a very vertical growth,
00:45:24very particular too,
00:45:27In short,
00:45:27because she
00:45:27had perhaps heard,
00:45:30had perhaps seen,
00:45:31maybe he had to,
00:45:31I ask this,
00:45:33Why
00:45:33the milking machine
00:45:34to which she
00:45:35refers to
00:45:36is that men
00:45:37who have documents in their hands
00:45:39as she will have in the future,
00:45:40and he will explain it to us shortly,
00:45:41confidential documents,
00:45:43they have an obligation
00:45:45of secrecy
00:45:46until the end.
00:45:48Absolutely yes,
00:45:49anyone who has a secrecy clearance
00:45:51and for this
00:45:52they also suffered,
00:45:54Unfortunately,
00:45:55three Air Force officers
00:45:57who have been put on trial,
00:45:59which are the ones he says
00:46:00General Tricarico,
00:46:01they too had no objection,
00:46:04for which
00:46:04It's not that they omitted,
00:46:06they couldn't,
00:46:07because there was more risk
00:46:08with the military penal code
00:46:10than with the civil penal code.
00:46:12What was at stake?
00:46:12if she said
00:46:13that night
00:46:14General Mura
00:46:15he said
00:46:17we will find out
00:46:18who beat what,
00:46:20because that's the sentence.
00:46:21The compromise
00:46:22of a document
00:46:23or of a classified news item
00:46:25can bring
00:46:26to twenty years in prison,
00:46:28true.
00:46:29At that time,
00:46:30I ask you a favor,
00:46:34then she came
00:46:36in possession
00:46:37of material
00:46:39very delicate,
00:46:41tell me
00:46:41if it concerns
00:46:42Ustica
00:46:43Also.
00:46:44Also.
00:46:46I had,
00:46:47It is true,
00:46:48a career...
00:46:49don't tell me anything in advance,
00:46:50but I would like to understand
00:46:51if he had to deal with
00:46:52with Ustica
00:46:53and then with another
00:46:55foreign aircraft.
00:46:57Absolutely yes.
00:46:59At that time,
00:46:59I'll stop her,
00:47:00I'll do it for him
00:47:00in a few moments
00:47:01the question.
00:47:02We have to stop
00:47:03for 60 seconds,
00:47:05it's the famous
00:47:06Golden Minutes.
00:47:06we'll come back later
00:47:08and the question
00:47:09regard
00:47:10the presence
00:47:12on Italian territory
00:47:13of a foreign plane.
00:47:15There was,
00:47:16there wasn't,
00:47:16legend,
00:47:17truth?
00:47:18In a few moments,
00:47:1960 seconds,
00:47:20let's come back here.
00:47:30At that time,
00:47:31I asked him
00:47:32this question
00:47:32Why
00:47:36on June 27th
00:47:37we're talking
00:47:38of the presence
00:47:39of a MIG
00:47:42Libyan.
00:47:46In that document
00:47:48which he will tell us about later
00:47:49we also talk about
00:47:50of this Libyan MIG
00:47:51generatively
00:47:53on June 27th?
00:47:54Yes.
00:47:57Absolutely yes.
00:47:59It is also spoken
00:48:00of other foreign aircraft?
00:48:01Absolutely yes.
00:48:05At that time,
00:48:05I ask him
00:48:06and I thank you
00:48:08for having been here
00:48:09then see you later
00:48:10Why
00:48:11that evening
00:48:12of June 27
00:48:13there is something
00:48:14that's not going well
00:48:15from the very beginning
00:48:17of the journey.
00:48:19Let's show
00:48:20kindly
00:48:21the graphics
00:48:22that we have prepared
00:48:23which part
00:48:23right on the strange point.
00:48:26Once it takes off
00:48:26from the airport
00:48:27Marconi
00:48:28the aircraft
00:48:3019 Italy
00:48:32is found
00:48:33in a situation
00:48:34a little special
00:48:35and I'll explain it to you
00:48:37making you listen
00:48:38What
00:48:42he says
00:48:42the control tower
00:48:43Ciampino
00:48:44That
00:48:44he had understood
00:48:46that there was something
00:48:46that didn't come back
00:48:48in the position
00:48:49which he had assumed.
00:48:51Listen to what he says
00:48:52Ciampino
00:48:53to the commander
00:48:55of the 19th.
00:48:57Good evening
00:48:58Rome radar
00:48:58It's the IH870
00:49:00Good evening to you too
00:49:01870
00:49:02it's under the radar
00:49:03let's see how it goes
00:49:04towards Grosseto
00:49:05what kind of bow does it have?
00:49:06The 870
00:49:07it is perfectly aligned
00:49:08on the Florence radial
00:49:09we have 153 in the bow
00:49:11we have to think again
00:49:12on functionality
00:49:13of the VOR of Florence
00:49:14Yes
00:49:14effectively
00:49:15it's not going very well
00:49:16tell us what we have to do
00:49:18now I see
00:49:19who is returning
00:49:20so basically
00:49:20let's say it's aligned
00:49:22keep this bow
00:49:23we didn't move
00:49:25huh?
00:49:27At that time
00:49:28we didn't move
00:49:29Professor Dallamese
00:49:30she is the greatest expert
00:49:31of Italian radar
00:49:33what had he drawn
00:49:35in deception
00:49:36Ciampino?
00:49:38But in fact
00:49:39to study well
00:49:42the tracks
00:49:43of these planes
00:49:43of the 19th
00:49:44and of this couple
00:49:46of F-104
00:49:48Italians
00:49:49you can see
00:49:50that at a certain point
00:49:51the couple
00:49:52of F-104
00:49:53is getting closer
00:49:54we can show
00:49:55see again
00:49:56a moment
00:49:56the graphics
00:49:57let's give a little
00:49:57of movement
00:49:58to this evening
00:49:59please
00:49:59I want to see it
00:50:00while he speaks
00:50:01the professor
00:50:02television
00:50:03it's made of images
00:50:05be careful
00:50:06he goes down
00:50:08professor
00:50:08what is it
00:50:09around there?
00:50:10second
00:50:11there is this couple
00:50:13of F-104
00:50:15who is returning
00:50:18from a strange mission
00:50:20if he wants
00:50:20then we'll talk about it
00:50:21of that too
00:50:22then we'll see it
00:50:22in detail
00:50:23thanks to new technology
00:50:24but why does he tell her
00:50:25move
00:50:26returns
00:50:27they say
00:50:27because it can be seen
00:50:28the track
00:50:30of these
00:50:30two planes
00:50:32military
00:50:33that is approaching
00:50:34dangerously
00:50:35at the
00:50:35trajectory
00:50:37what is he doing
00:50:38at that moment
00:50:39The
00:50:40the 19th
00:50:41it's clear
00:50:42that the controller
00:50:44of flight
00:50:45from Ciampino
00:50:46who cares
00:50:48let's say
00:50:49there
00:50:49avoid
00:50:51that they happen
00:50:52accidents
00:50:53in flight
00:50:54warns immediately
00:50:55the pilots
00:50:56of this
00:50:58couple
00:50:58look at that
00:50:59you are going
00:51:00in an area
00:51:02to you
00:51:03precluded
00:51:03Meaning what
00:51:04on me
00:51:05to a flight
00:51:06civil
00:51:07and then
00:51:07you have to move
00:51:09why did they go there?
00:51:10because they had
00:51:11the bow
00:51:12live
00:51:13like that
00:51:14and they were
00:51:16very close
00:51:17then they do
00:51:17another maneuver
00:51:18strange
00:51:19they throw
00:51:19a general alarm
00:51:20Certain
00:51:20at this point
00:51:22the two planes
00:51:24they realize
00:51:25the plane realizes
00:51:26to be close
00:51:27follow the directions
00:51:29from Ciampino
00:51:29and shake
00:51:31as they say
00:51:31in slang
00:51:32Meaning what
00:51:33they throw
00:51:34a message
00:51:35emergency
00:51:36emergency
00:51:37general
00:51:38this emergency
00:51:40general
00:51:40actually
00:51:42it is not clear
00:51:43what it is
00:51:43because when
00:51:44the planes
00:51:45that they are a couple
00:51:46they land
00:51:47at the airport
00:51:48from Ciampino
00:51:48actually
00:51:49they don't have
00:51:50none
00:51:51emergency
00:51:51on board
00:51:52Meaning what
00:51:52it didn't happen
00:51:53absolutely nothing
00:51:54Therefore
00:51:54that
00:51:56acronym
00:51:57that they send
00:51:58had to have
00:51:59another meaning
00:52:00At that time
00:52:01let's go for a moment
00:52:02to see
00:52:03what happens
00:52:03After
00:52:04in Ponza
00:52:05let's continue the journey
00:52:06because there too
00:52:07something happens
00:52:08of strange
00:52:08look at the graphics
00:52:11here it is
00:52:11the plane continues
00:52:13his way
00:52:14and it arrives
00:52:15at a certain point
00:52:16on the island of Ponza
00:52:17when is he
00:52:19to arrive
00:52:20at Condor Point
00:52:21where unfortunately
00:52:22it falls
00:52:23there too
00:52:25there's something
00:52:27what's happening
00:52:27there is an exchange
00:52:29Between
00:52:29Griffi Patrons
00:52:31who is the captain
00:52:31which is found
00:52:32in the center
00:52:33Rada
00:52:33from Martina Franca
00:52:34with a colleague of his
00:52:35what is called
00:52:36which is in Licola
00:52:37I believe in Campora
00:52:38hear what they say
00:52:41listen a little
00:52:42with regard to
00:52:42the plot
00:52:43that you gave us
00:52:44there is a point
00:52:45who makes a leap
00:52:45from kangaroo
00:52:46which is impossible
00:52:46believe it
00:52:47anyway those
00:52:48they were copied
00:52:48in full
00:52:49from the DA
00:52:50Then
00:52:50I can have it checked again
00:52:52it could be
00:52:52that they made a mistake
00:52:56At that time
00:52:57this sentence
00:52:58this sentence
00:52:59it makes us understand
00:53:00what a leap
00:53:01of kangaroo
00:53:02it's not a thing
00:53:03banal
00:53:03that they exchange
00:53:04there between them
00:53:05there is something
00:53:05what happens
00:53:06this leap
00:53:08of kangaroo
00:53:08it was interpreted
00:53:09as
00:53:11if a plane
00:53:12exceeded
00:53:13at great speed
00:53:14another
00:53:15we went
00:53:16from the marshal
00:53:17Sardinian
00:53:18why that sentence
00:53:19it was originated
00:53:20from a colleague
00:53:20which was in the same base
00:53:22and saw a monitor
00:53:23which followed the descent
00:53:24of the flight
00:53:25Italy
00:53:25who has sensations
00:53:27listen to what he tells me
00:53:29Marshal Sardu
00:53:33there is a person
00:53:34that that evening
00:53:35it was in that
00:53:36base
00:53:37that she knows
00:53:38Marshal Carico
00:53:39which
00:53:40on trial
00:53:41he says this thing here
00:53:43that I want you to listen to
00:53:44at a certain point
00:53:46I stopped
00:53:47on two planes
00:53:48that were coming down
00:53:50perpendicularly
00:53:51towards
00:53:51Laisi Point
00:53:54at a certain point
00:53:55in the center
00:53:57of the Tyrrhenian Sea
00:53:58one of the two
00:54:00he passed away
00:54:02tapering
00:54:03as
00:54:04brightness
00:54:05when this signal
00:54:07of the 19th
00:54:07decade
00:54:08it goes down in brightness
00:54:10and what does he do?
00:54:11there is
00:54:11at that point
00:54:11it seemed like one thing to me
00:54:12anomalous
00:54:13from the alarm
00:54:14Yes
00:54:15Why
00:54:16Load
00:54:17he says he saw
00:54:18this perpendicular
00:54:20in her opinion
00:54:20because he
00:54:21from 8
00:54:22until 9
00:54:23he was sitting there
00:54:25Therefore
00:54:26he saw
00:54:27something
00:54:28so he saw
00:54:28that thing there
00:54:29Surely
00:54:30Why
00:54:30if he says so
00:54:32as cargo
00:54:33he had a
00:54:33certain experience
00:54:35why the plane
00:54:36it falls at 9
00:54:37minus 1
00:54:37minus 1
00:54:38so in theory
00:54:39Load
00:54:40he was in that place
00:54:42may have seen
00:54:43this thing
00:54:45At that time
00:54:46in a little while
00:54:47I have to ask a question
00:54:49particular
00:54:50to whom?
00:54:52to the general
00:54:52Tricarico
00:54:53because together
00:54:54to a very good one
00:54:55researcher
00:54:56Alessandro Sisti
00:54:57we saw
00:54:58dozens and dozens
00:54:59of working hours
00:55:00done in past years
00:55:01from the very good colleagues
00:55:03who have dealt with
00:55:04Of
00:55:05Ustica
00:55:06at a certain point
00:55:07in yellow telephone
00:55:08I come across
00:55:10General Mura
00:55:11the general
00:55:12who commanded
00:55:13the Milan area
00:55:15the Northern Brigade
00:55:15the first brigade
00:55:16aeronautics
00:55:17which he was talking about before
00:55:18she too
00:55:19no marshal
00:55:20listen to what he says
00:55:22he was not a passerby
00:55:23he was a general
00:55:24who coordinated
00:55:25the first air region
00:55:27talk about something
00:55:28which has always been denied
00:55:30he was wrong
00:55:31I do not believe
00:55:32why in 1988
00:55:33why does he say this thing
00:55:34listen
00:55:38there were probably
00:55:40of the exercises
00:55:41now we can
00:55:42also rebuild
00:55:43but luckily
00:55:44at that moment
00:55:45they were not flying
00:55:46airplanes
00:55:46let's say
00:55:47known
00:55:48so this
00:55:49is excluded
00:55:50immediately
00:55:50the air force
00:55:52thank God
00:55:52the sixth fleet
00:55:54and Clemenceau
00:55:55because she brought it
00:55:56What is Clemenceau?
00:55:57Clemenceau
00:55:58It is the French aircraft carrier
00:55:59who was in the area
00:56:00but with great luck
00:56:02had launched
00:56:03the airplanes
00:56:03the night before
00:56:04and they had already landed
00:56:05in Toulon
00:56:06so there were no
00:56:07known aircraft
00:56:09of the western camp
00:56:10the aircraft carrier
00:56:11that sends away
00:56:11the planes
00:56:12it's practically
00:56:13a lifeboat
00:56:14that goes
00:56:14the exercise
00:56:15it was finished
00:56:16and the custom
00:56:17that's it
00:56:17that airplanes
00:56:18they return
00:56:18at the base
00:56:19air and sea
00:56:20which is Toulon
00:56:24General Tricarico
00:56:25but this statement
00:56:27of General Mura
00:56:28It seems a little strange to me
00:56:30that is, I can believe
00:56:32to the donkeys
00:56:32that really fly
00:56:33but think
00:56:34that an aircraft carrier
00:56:35worth billions of lire
00:56:37at the time
00:56:39may not be protected
00:56:41from a single plane
00:56:43it seems like one thing to me
00:56:44that is not
00:56:44nor in heaven
00:56:45nor on earth
00:56:45in the meantime let's find out
00:56:47General Mura says so
00:56:48that there was an aircraft carrier
00:56:50it has always been denied
00:56:51this presence
00:56:52How come?
00:56:54look
00:56:55then the operations
00:56:56of the aircraft carriers
00:56:57especially those
00:56:57Americans
00:56:58I'm enough
00:57:02let's say
00:57:02delicate to manage
00:57:04because in general
00:57:06they have the propensity
00:57:07not to reveal
00:57:09their movements
00:57:10and its operations
00:57:12so every time
00:57:14that it were to happen
00:57:15something
00:57:16it's almost a reflex
00:57:17conditioned
00:57:18of the controllers
00:57:19of air defense
00:57:20and then of all
00:57:21the command academy
00:57:22to get informed
00:57:23who was in the area
00:57:24if there were any aircraft carriers
00:57:26this is done
00:57:27always and in any case
00:57:28because they are traffic
00:57:30which in general
00:57:31not always
00:57:32I'm under control
00:57:34but as far as
00:57:36the French
00:57:37we know it
00:57:38what Americans do
00:57:39when they operate
00:57:40for NATO
00:57:41let's say
00:57:42they collaborate
00:57:43when they do operations
00:57:44absolutely
00:57:46autonomy
00:57:47they don't say anything
00:57:48but Clemenceau
00:57:49it was a door
00:57:50of the French
00:57:51and it is said
00:57:52General Mura
00:57:53he says
00:57:53it was down there
00:57:54it turns out to you
00:57:56then I don't know
00:57:58this episode
00:57:59Obviously
00:58:01evidently
00:58:02she's asking me
00:58:04an effort
00:58:04that would make it falter
00:58:06also Pico della Mirandola
00:58:07and then
00:58:08I can't remember everything
00:58:10this period
00:58:11Clemenceau
00:58:12I don't remember it
00:58:12I don't even remember
00:58:13if actually
00:58:15these aircraft
00:58:16Then
00:58:16they landed again
00:58:18but
00:58:18as a military expert
00:58:20she flew
00:58:21on planes
00:58:22it's credible
00:58:23that an aircraft carrier
00:58:24don't hold
00:58:25in defense
00:58:26of his own ship
00:58:28a series
00:58:29of aircraft
00:58:30how can he say
00:58:30General Mura
00:58:31they were all
00:58:32stay calm
00:58:32they were all
00:58:33in Toulon
00:58:33at the airport
00:58:34the night before
00:58:35the 80
00:58:36it was a period
00:58:37war
00:58:37the Mediterranean
00:58:38it was a comparison
00:58:39between Soviets
00:58:40Americans
00:58:40and also French
00:58:42they didn't love each other
00:58:43with Libya
00:58:44they didn't love each other
00:58:45with other countries
00:58:46so it was
00:58:47In short
00:58:47it's a bit unusual
00:58:48feel
00:58:49that the aircraft carrier
00:58:50he didn't have
00:58:51a vehicle above
00:58:52No
00:58:53At that time
00:58:54look
00:58:54the operations
00:58:55of the aircraft carrier
00:58:56in times
00:58:57of ordinary
00:58:58everyday life
00:58:58how could they
00:58:59be those
00:59:00certainly not today
00:59:02certainly not today
00:59:02but then
00:59:03let's say
00:59:04they were moving
00:59:05Enough
00:59:06casually
00:59:08not always
00:59:09taking all
00:59:10the precautions
00:59:11to defend themselves
00:59:11because obviously
00:59:13it was believed
00:59:14that there wasn't
00:59:14anything
00:59:15to defend yourself from
00:59:16Anyway
00:59:17it seems to me
00:59:18general
00:59:19I understand
00:59:20that she
00:59:21I don't know
00:59:21of this particular
00:59:24allow me
00:59:25that I don't believe
00:59:26so much
00:59:26to the fact that an aircraft carrier
00:59:28worth billions
00:59:29I repeat
00:59:29at euro time
00:59:30of lire
00:59:31stay free
00:59:32Calm
00:59:33to go to the seaside
00:59:33in the year 80
00:59:34which was a year
00:59:35terrible
00:59:36but let's take note
00:59:37that that ship
00:59:37Second General Mura
00:59:38he was there
00:59:39he was there
00:59:40At that time
00:59:41God forbid
00:59:42that general Mura
00:59:44that was it
00:59:45what he had said
00:59:47in her opinion
00:59:48what is he telling me
00:59:49so each of us
00:59:50takes responsibility for his/her own actions
00:59:51absolutely
00:59:51this evening
00:59:52of the statements
00:59:52you also declare it
00:59:54to the magistrates
00:59:54when I was questioned
00:59:55for 11 hours
00:59:56Here you are
00:59:57it seems to me that
00:59:58this version
01:00:00of General Mura
01:00:00is very different
01:00:01from his
01:00:03Meaning what
01:00:03yellow telephone
01:00:04it seems much more to me
01:00:06calming
01:00:06I told her
01:00:07Exactly
01:00:08what in the morning
01:00:09of the 28th
01:00:10at half past eight
01:00:11in the morning
01:00:11at the official club
01:00:12of the first air region
01:00:13of Milan
01:00:14General Mura
01:00:15he said
01:00:16that sentence
01:00:16which remained
01:00:17in my mind
01:00:18still
01:00:19is present
01:00:22and I will never forget it
01:00:23for life
01:00:24Dario Bonfietti
01:00:26Yes
01:00:26but
01:00:28I don't know
01:00:29about what
01:00:29he wants me to intervene
01:00:32no because
01:00:32she heard
01:00:33No
01:00:33air travel
01:00:35without planes
01:00:36Certain
01:00:36I want to hear it
01:00:38the things I can say
01:00:40is that all these things
01:00:41allow me
01:00:42have already been done
01:00:44from the prior judge
01:00:45in a good nine years
01:00:47of investigation
01:00:48and then
01:00:49take up again
01:00:50and they brought it
01:00:52as you know
01:00:52although
01:00:53General Tricarico
01:00:55he says it's not like that
01:00:56to conclude
01:00:57on the causes
01:00:59and then
01:01:00we are talking about things
01:01:01which have already been analyzed
01:01:02all
01:01:03the destruction of evidence
01:01:04if he wants I'll read it to him
01:01:06it was total
01:01:07at various radar sites
01:01:08but I'm not the one saying it
01:01:10the prior judge says so
01:01:12and in a state of law
01:01:13I think we still have to
01:01:14refer to us
01:01:16to these
01:01:18examples
01:01:18important
01:01:20that even inside
01:01:21of the judiciary
01:01:21there have been
01:01:23in seeking the truth
01:01:24on the Ustica affair
01:01:26and on the Ustica affair
01:01:27the causes
01:01:28I keep saying
01:01:30they were written
01:01:31from the prior judge
01:01:33what does he say?
01:01:33and I quote
01:01:34the 19th
01:01:35it was shot down
01:01:37I am sorry
01:01:38that still
01:01:38they didn't understand it
01:01:40some generals
01:01:42I am sorry
01:01:43of the aeronautical
01:01:44and other people
01:01:45that join them
01:01:46the 19th
01:01:47it was shot down
01:01:48within
01:01:49of an episode
01:01:50of air warfare
01:01:51de facto war
01:01:53and undeclared
01:01:54against our country
01:01:56of which have been violated
01:01:58the borders
01:01:59and the rights
01:01:59I'm quoting
01:02:02I don't know
01:02:04Why
01:02:04on this matter
01:02:05don't want it
01:02:06accept
01:02:07this truth
01:02:08because of this
01:02:10the prior judge
01:02:11he put together
01:02:12as you know
01:02:12Also
01:02:13as she said
01:02:14Before
01:02:14in '87
01:02:15from the experts
01:02:17of NATO
01:02:18we turned to
01:02:20blah blah blah
01:02:20etc.
01:02:21and they gave us
01:02:23the presence
01:02:24certain
01:02:25of airplanes
01:02:26that night
01:02:28in that period
01:02:29in the sky
01:02:30of Ustica
01:02:31and they were
01:02:31American planes
01:02:33French planes
01:02:34British planes
01:02:35Belgian planes
01:02:36and some
01:02:37with transponders
01:02:38worn out
01:02:39Meaning what
01:02:39probably
01:02:40Also
01:02:42some
01:02:43with the codes
01:02:44of identification
01:02:45turned off
01:02:46not only transponders
01:02:47At that time
01:02:48this is the truth
01:02:49us today
01:02:50we have to move on
01:02:52we can't
01:02:53keep hearing
01:02:54the judge
01:02:54tricarico
01:02:55what does he say?
01:02:56that they
01:02:56they are not guilty
01:02:57a judge said it
01:02:58answer
01:02:59tricarico
01:02:59answer
01:03:00and then we go
01:03:00another mystery
01:03:01for high treason
01:03:03then they were acquitted
01:03:05but not for not having
01:03:06the deed was done
01:03:07that no one had been
01:03:08indicted
01:03:09for having knocked down
01:03:10an airplane
01:03:10but they had been
01:03:11indicted
01:03:12for not having said
01:03:13in July
01:03:14of 80
01:03:15that they had seen
01:03:16that radar track
01:03:18of this
01:03:19among which we will arrive
01:03:20in a little while
01:03:21general
01:03:22a moment
01:03:23I'm finishing
01:03:24and they were
01:03:25indicted
01:03:26they responded
01:03:27in front of
01:03:27in a process
01:03:29first degree
01:03:29second degree
01:03:30third party
01:03:30court
01:03:31of Rome
01:03:32in order not to have
01:03:33for having written
01:03:34a letter
01:03:34the head of state
01:03:35greater
01:03:36of the Air Force
01:03:36in December
01:03:38of 80
01:03:38that he said
01:03:40to the walls
01:03:41in brackets
01:03:42to everyone
01:03:43companies
01:03:44only
01:03:45dear
01:03:46employees
01:03:47what are they called?
01:03:48those who
01:03:48Air Force colleagues
01:03:50which was
01:03:51a collapse
01:03:52structural
01:03:53not bomb
01:03:56general
01:03:56tricarico
01:03:57collapse
01:03:58structural
01:03:58this has allowed
01:04:00to this story
01:04:01to stay
01:04:02stop
01:04:03for six years
01:04:04do you want to understand it?
01:04:05or not
01:04:05tricarico response
01:04:07tricarico response
01:04:08tricarico response
01:04:10no others
01:04:10no others
01:04:11if they haven't seen
01:04:12and if they didn't understand
01:04:14it will be a good fault
01:04:15why instead
01:04:17there were in the sky
01:04:18why instead
01:04:19everything else
01:04:21it has been tried
01:04:22from the experts
01:04:23of the judge
01:04:24what they said
01:04:25which was
01:04:26within
01:04:27of the episode
01:04:28but let's talk
01:04:30of the past
01:04:31that you are not
01:04:32tricarico
01:04:32Please
01:04:34Gilletti
01:04:34I'll let it finish
01:04:35this thought
01:04:36but
01:04:36I won't be
01:04:37long
01:04:38I'll be brief
01:04:39At that time
01:04:40the judge
01:04:41instructor
01:04:42Rosario Priori
01:04:43he received
01:04:44two pieces of information
01:04:45important
01:04:46before going
01:04:46on trial
01:04:47the first
01:04:48it's the indictment
01:04:50of the three PMs
01:04:51Saved
01:04:52September
01:04:52Cloudy
01:04:53and the third
01:04:54new memory
01:04:54which
01:04:56they were saying
01:04:57which
01:04:58they were saying
01:04:58naturally
01:04:59Salvi was
01:04:59attorney
01:05:00general
01:05:00of the court
01:05:01Section
01:05:01he knows
01:05:02they were saying
01:05:03that there are
01:05:04the evidence
01:05:05of the bomb
01:05:05while there is no
01:05:06no evidence
01:05:07of the missile
01:05:08this is what they said
01:05:09let me finish
01:05:11and they said this
01:05:12in 98
01:05:13in 94
01:05:15Priors
01:05:16had instead
01:05:17the relationship
01:05:18of his college
01:05:19for Italy
01:05:20Misiti
01:05:20constituted
01:05:22from 11
01:05:23experts
01:05:24at the level
01:05:24international
01:05:25perhaps the greatest
01:05:26experts
01:05:26that unanimously
01:05:28they were saying
01:05:29that the only one
01:05:30hypothesis
01:05:30compatible
01:05:31it was that
01:05:32of a bomb
01:05:33on board
01:05:34Despite
01:05:35this Priori
01:05:36so despite
01:05:37these two cards
01:05:38yellows he receives
01:05:39from the PM
01:05:41and from the college
01:05:42postpone
01:05:43on trial
01:05:44in August
01:05:44of 99
01:05:45the last ones
01:05:46four generals
01:05:47At that time
01:05:48he did not pronounce
01:05:50no conviction
01:05:51you must not
01:05:51none
01:05:54judgment
01:05:55Prior
01:05:56a sentence
01:05:58order
01:05:58which was
01:05:59simply
01:06:00what today
01:06:00is called
01:06:01postponement
01:06:02on trial
01:06:02daring lawyer
01:06:03no no no
01:06:04he has to make me finish
01:06:05please send it to her
01:06:06because I want an answer
01:06:08why is she saying
01:06:09some things
01:06:09for which I have to give
01:06:10also an answer
01:06:11no ten seconds
01:06:12Please
01:06:12he has to make me finish
01:06:13yes please
01:06:14this sentence
01:06:15then the college
01:06:17let's say
01:06:17judging
01:06:19Court of Appeal
01:06:20of Rome
01:06:21has
01:06:22let's say
01:06:23dismantled
01:06:24mercilessly
01:06:25piece by piece
01:06:26the whole system
01:06:28accusatory
01:06:28of the prior
01:06:29defining it
01:06:30more worthy
01:06:32of the plot
01:06:32of a film
01:06:33of espionage
01:06:34than a pronouncement
01:06:35judged
01:06:36I take the head
01:06:37Please
01:06:38there is a debate
01:06:39let me say
01:06:40no general
01:06:41she has already said a lot
01:06:42he said a lot
01:06:43but not everything
01:06:45please
01:06:46since it is here
01:06:48she is talking
01:06:49with people
01:06:49which obviously
01:06:50they have an idea
01:06:51different
01:06:51totally different
01:06:52from his
01:06:53they lost
01:06:54I remember it
01:06:55their families
01:06:56I would like
01:06:57an intervention
01:06:57osnate
01:06:58decided
01:06:58please
01:06:59very concise
01:07:01Excuse me, General
01:07:02I didn't understand
01:07:03if she is saying
01:07:04just some things
01:07:05totally stupid
01:07:06because he doesn't understand them
01:07:07or if he is saying
01:07:08just some things
01:07:09totally false
01:07:11and is aware
01:07:12to say false things
01:07:14all that
01:07:15that she said
01:07:16it doesn't match
01:07:17nowhere
01:07:18of the truth
01:07:19for example
01:07:20the sentence
01:07:21order
01:07:22by Rosario Priore
01:07:23that she flaunts
01:07:24that he has acquitted
01:07:2580 soldiers
01:07:26No
01:07:26simply
01:07:28has issued
01:07:30a sentence
01:07:30of archiving
01:07:31because the prescribed
01:07:32they were unhappy
01:07:33that is, they were
01:07:34crimes of nature
01:07:35minor
01:07:36and there are 67
01:07:38accused of crime
01:07:39connected
01:07:40who were acquitted
01:07:41for intervened
01:07:42prescription
01:07:43why that long time
01:07:44which had passed
01:07:45it was their fault
01:07:47and it was your fault
01:07:48after which
01:07:49Judge Priore
01:07:51he sent back
01:07:52to the judgment
01:07:53those 4 generals
01:07:54chief of staff
01:07:55not to have
01:07:57Certainly
01:07:57as he said
01:07:58Senator Bonfietti
01:07:59shot down on the 19th
01:08:00but to have
01:08:02created
01:08:02a situation
01:08:03of impediment
01:08:04to the authorities
01:08:05government
01:08:06of the exercise
01:08:07of the attributions
01:08:08at that point
01:08:09but the court
01:08:10of appeal
01:08:10of assizes
01:08:12of Rome
01:08:13he said that in reality
01:08:15they anyway
01:08:16a disturbance
01:08:17they had done it
01:08:18that is, he said
01:08:19that they
01:08:19the fake
01:08:20they had said it
01:08:21when she
01:08:22then it refers
01:08:23General Tricarico
01:08:24to the sentence
01:08:26second degree
01:08:27which in his opinion
01:08:28must have
01:08:29acquitted
01:08:30because the fact
01:08:31it does not exist
01:08:32because it was
01:08:33the bomb
01:08:34and why it was
01:08:35excluding
01:08:35in miss
01:08:36I contest them
01:08:37officially
01:08:38publicly
01:08:39that she
01:08:40makes a false statement
01:08:41aware
01:08:42to declare
01:08:43the fake
01:08:44and take it on
01:08:45all responsibilities
01:08:47and you learn
01:08:48go and read
01:08:49the sentences
01:08:50why two
01:08:50they are the things
01:08:51or she doesn't know
01:08:52light
01:08:53or she
01:08:54he is in bad faith
01:08:56and let's finish it
01:08:58to mystify
01:08:59the situation
01:09:00Professor Dallamese
01:09:01she had perished
01:09:03for flower
01:09:03and don't laugh
01:09:05At that time
01:09:05I would like to say
01:09:06two words
01:09:07Speaking of which
01:09:08of that
01:09:08that I heard
01:09:09on some things
01:09:10first
01:09:11the question
01:09:12of the commission
01:09:13mystical
01:09:13or the super commission
01:09:14there hadn't been
01:09:16a scandal
01:09:16on the commission
01:09:17mystical
01:09:17that passed by
01:09:18documents
01:09:19I was talking
01:09:20own
01:09:21I was talking
01:09:22the people
01:09:23please
01:09:24we are
01:09:25entered into this story
01:09:26who is following us
01:09:28he doesn't know everything
01:09:28I remember it by heart
01:09:30that the commission
01:09:31mystical
01:09:31suffered
01:09:32a procedure
01:09:34particular
01:09:35what happened
01:09:35to the commission of missions
01:09:36At that time
01:09:36they happened
01:09:37two things
01:09:38not one
01:09:39two
01:09:40even worse
01:09:41Meaning what
01:09:42on one side
01:09:43there was
01:09:44a
01:09:45let's say
01:09:47position taken
01:09:48very hard
01:09:50of the public
01:09:51ministries
01:09:52with
01:09:53Dr. Salvi
01:09:54in the front row
01:09:55who has
01:09:56declared
01:09:56that the expertise
01:09:58it's useless
01:09:59in any proceeding
01:10:00judicial
01:10:01because it's full
01:10:02of logical errors
01:10:04and consequential
01:10:05they don't do it
01:10:06reference
01:10:07to the data
01:10:08technicians
01:10:09where I am
01:10:10inexperienced
01:10:11but they say
01:10:12that cannot be used
01:10:13because they contradict each other
01:10:14among themselves
01:10:15this technically
01:10:16but there hadn't been
01:10:17high
01:10:18more
01:10:18delicate
01:10:19and then
01:10:20After
01:10:20this grip
01:10:21of position
01:10:22which was
01:10:22done
01:10:23own
01:10:23Also
01:10:23from Dr. Priore
01:10:25it happened
01:10:26that Dr. Priore
01:10:27he ousted
01:10:28from the commission
01:10:29two
01:10:30of the greatest
01:10:31experts
01:10:31Why
01:10:34colluding
01:10:35with the members
01:10:38with the experts
01:10:40of the accused party
01:10:41they collaborated
01:10:42they were telling
01:10:43the one on which
01:10:44they were investigating
01:10:45to the other side
01:10:46they told it
01:10:47and they did
01:10:47of the meetings
01:10:48really
01:10:49that is, it happened
01:10:50that there are
01:10:50of the press
01:10:51general
01:10:51I think we put
01:10:52a stone
01:10:53about this thing
01:10:53because this too
01:10:54I am sorry
01:10:55it is on record
01:10:56this is on record
01:10:59there are some parts
01:11:00of the expertise
01:11:01made by
01:11:02Professor Picardi
01:11:04which is one of those
01:11:04who was ousted
01:11:06on the radar part
01:11:07which is identical
01:11:09to the expertise
01:11:10made by the experts
01:11:11biased
01:11:11it looks like we have it
01:11:12copied
01:11:12from one to the other
01:11:13I'll stop you
01:11:14why me now
01:11:14I have to move on
01:11:15there's another mystery
01:11:16we saw first
01:11:18that General Mura
01:11:19he says there
01:11:20in 1888
01:11:21says under Ustica
01:11:22there was the portaesi
01:11:23French
01:11:23Clemenceau
01:11:24without planes
01:11:25I won't believe it
01:11:26never
01:11:27but some say
01:11:29that the Saratoga
01:11:29American
01:11:30it's involved in this story
01:11:32others have said
01:11:33It is not true
01:11:34he was in the port
01:11:35of Naples
01:11:35we have discovered
01:11:36actually
01:11:36that the Saratoga
01:11:37he was there
01:11:39as
01:11:40we discovered it
01:11:40with the newlyweds
01:11:41because the day
01:11:42of marriage
01:11:43a married couple
01:11:44he remembers exactly
01:11:45what he experienced
01:11:47photographs are taken
01:11:49you are in a high place
01:11:50maybe Naples
01:11:51it's very beautiful
01:11:51look what he tells us
01:11:53our Ronchin
01:12:02I remember a phone call
01:12:04around 10 pm
01:12:05this gentleman
01:12:06which presents itself
01:12:07like the Digos
01:12:08and asks us to open
01:12:09why do they have to tell us
01:12:11something important
01:12:13they enter
01:12:13and they explain to us
01:12:15what are they doing
01:12:16an investigation
01:12:17and that therefore
01:12:18we will be called
01:12:20to go
01:12:22the police
01:12:24In short
01:12:24to the police station
01:12:25carrying
01:12:26all that
01:12:27which could have been
01:12:28the photographs taken
01:12:30the day
01:12:30of our wedding
01:12:35the investigators
01:12:36they wanted to have
01:12:37a certain security
01:12:39That
01:12:39in the days
01:12:41of the 27th
01:12:42June 28
01:12:43of 80
01:12:44in the installment
01:12:45of the Gulf of Naples
01:12:46were moored
01:12:48the Saratoga
01:12:49we were in line
01:12:50I remember it
01:12:50perfectly
01:12:51outside the police station
01:12:52but many of those
01:12:53couples
01:12:54everyone in line
01:12:55to deliver
01:12:56these photos
01:12:56from the photos
01:12:57which have been
01:12:59delivered
01:12:59it comes out
01:13:01this very one
01:13:02this certainty
01:13:06this is the part
01:13:07some photos
01:13:08taken on the 27th
01:13:09June 1980
01:13:11about hours
01:13:1218
01:13:13with the Saratoga
01:13:15in the background
01:13:21the building is the same
01:13:22the building is the same
01:13:24Yes
01:13:25right here in the direction
01:13:26you can see it very well
01:13:28looking at the roof
01:13:29of the palace
01:13:30more or less
01:13:31the air
01:13:31was here
01:13:32it was just
01:13:32that sailboat
01:13:34let's say
01:13:39I remember her
01:13:40perfectly
01:13:41why I stayed
01:13:42impressed
01:13:43from beauty
01:13:44of that ship
01:13:45as he pointed out
01:13:46him
01:13:46why do you look
01:13:47how beautiful it is
01:13:48that ship
01:13:48how big it is
01:13:49in short actually
01:13:50we are so far away
01:13:51you could see it
01:13:52already huge
01:13:53from here on up
01:13:58these are all
01:14:00of the 28th
01:14:01and this is the photo
01:14:03which was taken
01:14:05in proximity
01:14:07of the ceremony
01:14:09around 11 in the morning
01:14:11they are all
01:14:13weddings
01:14:14that is the fact
01:14:15that you got married
01:14:16on the same day
01:14:17of this accident
01:14:19over the years
01:14:21have you thought about it?
01:14:22every anniversary
01:14:23Always
01:14:24we thought about it
01:14:25to the massacre
01:14:31At that time
01:14:32these images
01:14:33that we found
01:14:35with force
01:14:36searched
01:14:37they demonstrate
01:14:38that the Saratoga
01:14:39that evening of the 27th
01:14:40he was there
01:14:41in the roadstead
01:14:41but there is one thing
01:14:43that doesn't come back to us
01:14:45in your opinion
01:14:46Well
01:14:47first we listened
01:14:48that he put on
01:14:48had no aircraft on board
01:14:50it was like
01:14:51in short, strange
01:14:52but
01:14:53in your opinion
01:14:54an American aircraft carrier
01:14:57in so important
01:14:58may have radars
01:15:00that don't work
01:15:01on trial
01:15:03American officials
01:15:06they always said
01:15:07that they had turned off
01:15:09all radars
01:15:09so as not to disturb
01:15:11the RAI
01:15:11At that time
01:15:12the RAI
01:15:14and Neapolitan televisions
01:15:16that were disturbed
01:15:17actually
01:15:19always with ours
01:15:21being assisted
01:15:22of the research
01:15:23we went to visit
01:15:24an interview
01:15:25that the commander
01:15:26the admiral
01:15:27of the American aircraft carrier
01:15:28in Saratoga
01:15:29release
01:15:30recklessly
01:15:31I believe
01:15:31on TG2
01:15:32listen carefully
01:15:34what does he say
01:15:40Admiral Flatley
01:15:41she was in command
01:15:42of the Saratoga
01:15:42that day
01:15:43and the Saratoga
01:15:43it was located in the gulf
01:15:44of Naples
01:15:45Exactly?
01:15:46the ship was
01:15:47drawn in the gulf
01:15:48of Naples
01:15:48what did he record
01:15:50the radar
01:15:50of the Saratoga
01:15:51that night
01:15:52at the moment
01:15:52of the accident
01:15:53of what
01:15:54what was it about?
01:15:55to be perfectly honest
01:15:56I couldn't say
01:15:57what exactly
01:15:58appeared on the radar
01:15:59the workers
01:15:59to maintenance
01:16:00they noticed something
01:16:01on the radar
01:16:02What?
01:16:03air traffic
01:16:04he was very supported
01:16:05in the Naples area
01:16:06especially in that one
01:16:06southern
01:16:07on the radar
01:16:08we saw
01:16:08many planes pass by
01:16:10what kind of planes
01:16:11civilian or military?
01:16:12you can't know
01:16:13with precision
01:16:14unless you ask
01:16:15explicitly to the aircraft
01:16:16the radar
01:16:17it wasn't on
01:16:18for this purpose
01:16:18but to carry out
01:16:19simple maintenance
01:16:20she was acquaintances
01:16:22of military maneuvers
01:16:23in that area?
01:16:24No
01:16:25definitely not
01:16:26we were
01:16:26docked in port
01:16:27and as you know
01:16:28an aircraft carrier
01:16:29must be at sea
01:16:30why the planes
01:16:31they can land on it
01:16:32or take off
01:16:32I absolutely deny it
01:16:34that the navy
01:16:34was doing
01:16:35of military maneuvers
01:16:36and I'm not aware
01:16:37I don't know
01:16:38no other type
01:16:39of military operations
01:16:40through
01:16:40through
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