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00:00You could cut any comedian into a five second clip and they could look like the worst people
00:04in the world. Do you know what I mean? Everything's in context. There's never ever been an issue
00:07of the kneecap gig and a kneecap member has never been convicted of any crime in any country ever.
00:20Hi, I'm Andrew Shrendel. You're watching NME's In Conversation. We're here today with kneecap.
00:25What's happening? How are we doing guys? Hi there. Nice to be back.
00:28Can we look down the camera? Yeah, if you want to hypnotize someone, it's that one or that one.
00:32Break the fifth floor. But it's been 18 months or so since we last spoke.
00:39Pretty un-evanful. Pretty un-evanful a few months, I must say.
00:43A few months, wasn't it? We'll take our gardening.
00:46Yeah, right. We did. Yeah, it's been a busy few months, let's say.
00:51Yeah. Well, we're here now with Feenian out next week. What does that word mean to you?
00:59And what power does it have? And why did you decide to kind of,
01:03that for that to be the name of this album for this era?
01:05I suppose obviously like, Feenian originally came from Irish folklore. It was a band of warriors
01:12from like old Irish stories that date back like 1500 years. Then it was repurposed as from like
01:20several rebellions in the 18th, 19th century. And then in modern times it was used as like a derogatory
01:26slur, I suppose, for like Irish nationalists. So in the north for Irish people coming to London.
01:30Well, you Feenian. You can swear, Rogan. Oh, you can swear? You Feenian.
01:36Cunt.
01:37But I think like part of the word, like kind of, we didn't start reclaiming this word. This is
01:42something that's been happening long before we chose this name for the album. But I think
01:47we wanted to kind of join forces with that reclaim of that word. And also I think it shows like
01:55the power of language and why certain language is used when you have a colonising country and the
02:02oppressed people. You use a certain language to demean them people. And if you're calling
02:07someone Feenian, I think you're insinuating that they're backwards or they are uncivilised.
02:14So that's what colonisers do. They use language to demean the people. So they take away the value.
02:20It happens in Palestine and it happened all around the world. India and Kenya. So part of that is
02:26us reclaiming the Feenian, reclaiming that uncivilised side of us and that warrior and that forest
02:32dweller. So that's kind of the idea with the name. Yeah. Badge of pride. Looks good on March too.
02:37It does look good on March. Two syllables is always good. But a lot's happened. I mean, it took us
02:43a while
02:43to get to this point. I remember we spoke in summer 2024. You said you guys were all well on
02:49the way
02:49with the next album, the follow up to Fine Art. But I guess life got in the way.
02:54Yeah, no, we actually, we had a, we had an album finished at the start of last year. And
03:02yeah, just whatever. It just became, it was just at the wrong time. And it's a couple of great songs
03:07on it, but it's just at the wrong time. And we just kind of decided rather than kind of trying
03:11to
03:12revive half of the songs or whatever, we just thought maybe it was time to just start scratch. And
03:17obviously try something completely different, even though the album probably would have went down
03:21well and stuff. It just, it just didn't feel right at that time. So just the term kill your babies,
03:25we just had to kill 12 of our babies and start again. And that's whenever we brought
03:30Diane Curry. Like we tried to work with Diane Curry for about three or four years now, but
03:36schedules just didn't work up. He's a busy man. Obviously we were busy, just didn't really work up.
03:40And then for this album and I can't remember what month it was. We were there September, October,
03:46September, October, it just worked out for us. And we were there, as we said, we moved in,
03:51we were renting a house, maybe 16 doors down from the studio. So we, we spent seven weeks in the
03:56same
03:57street basically. And, but it had a wee pub on the corner and stuff. So it was everything we needed.
04:01So we were absolutely delighted to work with Diane. It was a long time coming. And then obviously he just
04:06brought this kind of freshness to it, you know, this kind of musical complexity that we were kind
04:11of looking for, you know, the kind of next step up, obviously we're very simplistic in our approach.
04:15So having someone who's very, you know, very complex and very, you know, clever musically,
04:20it really just meshed together perfectly with us. And we kind of, kind of hit that sweet spot where it
04:24was
04:25kind of the next level up, a more mature certain album, but still, instead, you know, authentic, the kneecap.
04:30It was like being in the studio of like, and what's the word, eccentric, scientist,
04:38like creating potions and creating all this stuff. Can we, can we fact check that, eccentric?
04:43Jamie, pull that up. It's in my second language. But like, yeah, like a scientist,
04:46because they were always crazy, like a big body to create all these potions, because they had like,
04:51fucking simps all over the walls and like, clavialine. I don't know, I haven't heard of all
04:57these things. It was like one of the original simps from like the sixties or something. I don't know,
05:03it was some fucking relic that he brought out. And we just fell in love with the sound of it.
05:06Just whipping out stuff and like, like, let's try this. And then we're like,
05:09so it was cool. Like, that's exactly our sound.
05:12Can we get much of the album away?
05:16Was that, was that Lost Batch? Is that where the recap and Sayonara came from?
05:20No, that actually, no, that was Moosey, the recap.
05:25Yeah. No, they were, they were all just fresh.
05:26They were single from Paul Hartnell, actually from Orbital.
05:31You were very fixed that they had to be separate too.
05:33Yeah, because I suppose, I think with this, we wanted to start a new project,
05:38a whole project that, with Dan Kyrie, one person, and kind of sit there for seven weeks
05:43and try and work on something that, you know, had bigger sounds and more complex sounds
05:48and see if you can try and come up with something new. And it kept that interesting for us.
05:52And I think like, obviously we had the court case during the studio and we also had the Wembley Arena
05:56concert during the seven weeks we were in the studio. So, you know, Dan was at the gig and he
06:02was just kind of like trying to find sounds that would fill them rooms, you know, so that was a
06:07big
06:07part of this album was trying to try and get bigger sounds and kind of experiment with it.
06:11Yeah, I think most bands or most like artists or whatever, when they're doing an album,
06:15they maybe can have most of it wrote or are able to kind of go to the studio and lock
06:19themselves
06:20away for a few months. Whereas us, obviously we were getting dragged on the news, the magistrate's
06:24court and stuff. And then obviously Wembley, as we said, which was a huge deal for us at the time.
06:27So these things that should have been a hindrance and like on paper kind of were a hindrance.
06:32As I said, Dan went to the Wembley gig, he kind of had ideas for what was going to fill
06:37that room.
06:38So it actually, in the end, it was more of an inspiration, really, and an influence on the album
06:42than a hindrance, which was the best kind of outcome for it, you know.
06:45And how would you say that altered the chemistry of kneecap?
06:51The creative chemistry, not the chemicals.
06:53Yeah, well, I mean, I was able to see how the inside of a courtroom worked.
06:59So that helped for writing carnival.
07:01Just kind of things like that, you know, I was kind of like dazed out.
07:04Like, I wasn't really paying much attention to the judge.
07:06I was just kind of like thinking of things.
07:08Glancing diggle in your head.
07:10I don't mean no pad, I was just writing away tunes.
07:13No, but that was it, basically, just it was an experience.
07:15And obviously, the best thing about the whole thing was the amount of people that come out and supported us.
07:19And, you know, showing up that first day at the Magistrates Court,
07:22like hundreds of people there that I've never met, that have never met me.
07:25And it was just, it was heartwarming, you know.
07:27It was nice to see.
07:31And just a massive shout out to everybody that took time out of their days to come and do that.
07:35Like, I appreciate it.
07:35Well, I came down to two or three of them, and it felt like a gig.
07:40Well, you're definitely on some kind of list now, anyway.
07:42Oh, shit.
07:43Yeah, there definitely was that sort of atmosphere there.
07:45I thought it was kind of similar to Glastonbury.
07:48Last year, there was this, that kind of, that atmosphere there that's, I would say, festive,
07:54but also, like, kind of solidarity was a very big aspect of it.
07:57That's the thing about the people that sort of, like, had it took issue with Glastonbury
08:02and made headlines out of Glastonbury were clearly not there.
08:05Because there was nothing but love.
08:07I think Sharon Osbourne was there.
08:08Oh, yeah, she was there, yeah.
08:10Sharon Osbourne and Tony Robinson.
08:12But that was it.
08:12I mean, how do you feel?
08:15Let's just talk about kneecap pre-coachella, post-coachella.
08:18How do you feel things were going?
08:19And then how would you describe the kind of, the mentality of being a kneecap post-coachella?
08:26I mean, yeah, things were obviously, like, things were obviously going very well.
08:30And things went well after Coachella as well, do you know what I mean?
08:33The thing is, we never did anything different than Coachella.
08:35It's the same gig we played all year, but obviously just that we were in America and that there
08:40was thousands of young Americans shouting free Palestine.
08:44Like, you know, I just think the mainstream media in America have tried to kind of hide
08:48away, you know, the kind of Palestinian movement in America.
08:52So whenever there was no kind of, there was no disguising the fact that young Americans
08:57were, you know, in solidarity with Palestine, I think that was something that the mainstream
09:01media couldn't handle.
09:02And that's something that the mainstream media have tried to hide for so long.
09:05It was something that the same people who were outside the court for the case as well were
09:10the same people who were out supporting Palestine action, you know, because they saw censorship
09:13happening and they saw abuses of power and they were like, right, if this is allowed to carry
09:18on, then who's next?
09:21You know, and so not challenging those abuses of power would be kind of dereliction of their actions.
09:26So it's the same kind of people, but that's what happens, you know.
09:29As soon as arts kind of, they try to put a blockade on art and people expressing themselves
09:36and it's a slippery slope on the fascism.
09:40Do you feel that, like, the conversations moved on significantly because, you know,
09:44obviously you doing what you did in Coachella, like, kind of stopped things in its tracks a bit.
09:48And then we just had the Strokes do something quite similar and speak out against the government
09:52and, you know, destroying the last university in Gaza.
09:54That was a big thing to happen during a headline set.
09:56A thousand artists speaking out to boycott. Eurovision is no small thing.
10:01Yeah.
10:01Do you feel like things have moved on?
10:03Yeah, definitely.
10:04The boundary, like, the limitations of what bands think they can do has definitely shifted us.
10:08And, like, has the Strokes ever done stuff like that before?
10:12I know Julian's, like, he's been very pro-Palestine.
10:15Yeah, I've seen him talking about Palestine.
10:16I think that's cool.
10:17And, like, obviously, even at Coachella, there were other bands who spoke out for Palestine as well.
10:23It wasn't just us.
10:24Obviously, we were in the news, but there were other bands.
10:27But definitely, I think there is a shift because I think there's more solidarity between the bands
10:32who speak out for Palestine.
10:33So they feel maybe safer to put yourself out there.
10:36Because I think before this, it was quite isolating if you spoke out for Palestine or whatever.
10:42And that's the whole reason for that, I think, to kind of make you feel insecure in your job.
10:46And then to the court case of it, just kind of hit the nail on the head early on.
10:49I mean, naturally, I appreciate there's probably only a certain amount you can say with regards
10:54to the government still, like, hanging around like vultures on you and stuff.
10:56But in terms of, like, if there's, like, a would-be potential kneecap fan out there
11:01who kind of wants to be part of this but has a big question mark about the event, you know,
11:06the thing with the flag, what led to everything, is there anything you'd like to say about that
11:11to kind of put it in the context of what went down the heat of the moment and what kneecap
11:15as a performance?
11:16We've spoken about this a million times and we've had, you know, press statements.
11:23We've kind of, we've talked about it a lot.
11:24Let's just say we don't pick flags up on stage anymore.
11:27And then it's just like, you don't know what's going on when the lights are down?
11:31Ah, jeez, it's impossible.
11:32Like, it's hard to, it's hard to, it's hard to even see what's happening.
11:36It's just, it feels like a gig is, it's over before you know it.
11:40It's something like you fucking barely remember anything.
11:42Yeah, I'm not going to get into it, obviously.
11:44We've kind of, we've talked about it already.
11:46I feel like, obviously, we won.
11:48We expected to win.
11:49It just shows how kind of ludicrous the whole case was.
11:52That they threw millions of pounds at it, tried for an appeal and it all lost.
11:58It just shows how ludicrous the entire thing was.
12:00When you take things out of, you know, when you take years and years of gigs,
12:04and you compact it into 20 seconds of a satirical band on stage,
12:11it's just kind of like, you know, obviously, you could cut any comedian on earth
12:15into a five second clip and they could look like the worst people in the world.
12:19Do you know what I mean?
12:19Everything's in context.
12:20There's never, ever been an issue at a kneecap gig.
12:23And a kneecap member has never been convicted of any crime in any country ever.
12:27So I'm going to start slowly but surely moving on.
12:30But then for it to put the spotlight back onto the gigs, because in terms of everything
12:35you guys have ever said publicly, the things you say in the music,
12:40the things you say at songs, you're an anti-hate band.
12:43Of course.
12:44It's the same thing like we've, again, we talk about it all the time.
12:47We come from Belfast.
12:48We understand sectarian violence.
12:49We understand sectarianism.
12:51We understand religious divide serves absolutely nobody.
12:54We think, you know, anti-Semitism is a real issue.
12:58And it's growing at the minute.
12:59And it's something that generally needs to be talked about, needs to be tackled.
13:02But what happens is whenever you have the Zenist lobby, labeling, bands, actors as anti-Semitic,
13:10just because they speak out against Israel, you're starting to water down that term.
13:15And that's a term that we need to be talking about a lot more,
13:18because it's on the rise all around the world.
13:19So we are obviously not anti-Semitic.
13:22I think anybody with any kind of right mind knows that.
13:25And, you know, as you said, we don't stand for any kind of hate or gigs
13:30or any kind of fascist ideologies or whatever, you know.
13:32We're from Belfast.
13:33We're Irish.
13:34It's not in our nature.
13:36And then what was it?
13:37Was it cool to be enemy of the state for a minute?
13:39Enemy.
13:40Aye.
13:41It's his turn next.
13:42I'd say.
13:43Was it cool to be enemy of the state?
13:45Yeah.
13:45I mean, yeah, I think there's a good tradition there of English, English governments, you know,
13:53choosing Irish people as enemies.
13:54And there's a long history there of Irish people being criminalized for crimes they never committed.
14:00So, I mean, it's pretty cool, Mike.
14:02It's not, we're not the first Irish person to be called the terrorist.
14:06Yeah.
14:06Put it on your CV, enemy of the state.
14:08It's good.
14:08It's not a lot of CVs in Belfast.
14:10How would you describe that kind of, because second albums are famously difficult enough
14:15as it is, but to then do that with the knowledge that there's people waiting for it, to hear
14:21what you've got to say, to hear if you can back it up, to see if the music matches the
14:25politics
14:25and like, you know, why are these guys filling arenas?
14:28Did that kind of pressure enter your mind, like in terms of making this record a statement?
14:33Yeah, I don't, I didn't see this pressure, no.
14:35I thought that obviously we do kind of thrive in the chaos, as we say, do you know what I
14:40mean?
14:40Like sometimes, sometimes it's easier to deal with things when it's so chaotic
14:43and you're on to the next thing and stuff.
14:45So we obviously, you know, this album, we understood that there was a lot of eyes on this album.
14:50As you said, second album syndrome, do you know what I mean?
14:52It's, it's, it's quite, it's quite intense, I'd say for a lot of bands.
14:57We, yeah, we, we, we knew obviously if you were a kneecap fan and you've been,
15:01you know, watching what had been going on for the last year, you'd be absolutely very disappointed
15:05if there was no mention of it in the album.
15:07But of course there is, and we wouldn't let you down.
15:09And it's still at that point now with the album where it's not, not released.
15:13So it's still kind of ours, do you know what I mean?
15:15It's kind of our wee secret.
15:16We haven't released it.
15:17So we're, we're, we're ready to, we're ready to pull it out.
15:19Let it out.
15:21And now feel, it must be feel really strange to like,
15:24you have obviously had the first mix.
15:25You had a debut album, you made a fucking movie.
15:28And it's only now people are, you know, coming to get to know you.
15:31That must feel pretty surreal.
15:34I don't know, I don't really think about it too much.
15:37It is nice though that you get to play big stages of classroom and stuff.
15:41That obviously is an honor.
15:42You don't really think about it now when you're writing these songs or doing,
15:45doing, making music.
15:46You're not really thinking too much of the inside world.
15:48You're just kind of thinking of the inside world, inside your head.
15:52And it's an album that's as political as it is personal.
15:57Let's just start with Anrah about the, you know,
16:00all of Britain's amazing gifts to Ireland.
16:02That's a good way to put it.
16:03Jimmy Savile and HP Sauce.
16:04Now that is a worthy cause.
16:05That's going to look good on a t-shirt, right?
16:08We've been in enough trouble.
16:09I love brown sauce though.
16:11Like on, on sausages and stuff.
16:13Brown sauce and free healthcare.
16:14Other than that.
16:16That's all we're taking.
16:17Other than that, that's it.
16:17We're keeping that.
16:20He's going to have an ale and what else?
16:25Brown sauce and sausages.
16:27No, sorry.
16:27Brown sauce and the NHS.
16:29Brown sauce and the NHS.
16:30Bits of the BBC.
16:33But what can you tell us about approaching that song
16:35and kind of the balance you were trying to...
16:36That was actually one that was wrote a while back.
16:38I think that was wrote for like...
16:40I don't even know.
16:41We wrote that in the studio years ago in Belfast.
16:43Like it was an old, old one.
16:44It was originally like a lo-fi kind of hip-hop.
16:47Lo-fi.
16:47Like, do you know, it was obviously like a piss take of like a love letter
16:51to how much we're going to miss the United Kingdom
16:53whenever we get a United Ireland.
16:55Because like, the joke is like, I was saying that...
16:58When they went and colonising countries,
17:01talk about bringing civilised in other countries.
17:04And that's the whole joke about colonisation.
17:05They're like, oh, we've civilised Ireland or Kenya or India.
17:09So we're kind of playing with that idea that they...
17:12Actually, we were quite civilised before they got there.
17:15We had our own, we had our own laws, systems in place.
17:19So...
17:19Nothing more civil than genocide.
17:22Jesus Christ.
17:26Fucking hell.
17:27There's an R-T-shirt.
17:28A copy off guard.
17:28A 4-T-shirt.
17:30I'm going to say, in the UK,
17:31like, if you translate the UK to Irish, it's R-A.
17:36So, obviously, raked into here, United Kingdom.
17:38So, R-A.
17:39Looks like the R-A to play on words about the I-R-A.
17:41So, it's the whole thing.
17:45We're expecting people who don't speak Irish to come out outraged,
17:48thinking it's a song about the I-R-A,
17:49when we can obviously explain to them that it's actually a love letter
17:52for the United Kingdom.
17:53We thought you'd like that.
17:54Thanks, guys.
17:55Flipped it.
17:56Flipped it.
17:57And then with Smugglers and Scholars,
17:59what did you want to say about the real Ireland that people might not see?
18:03I suppose Smugglers and Scholars was down to,
18:06like, this kind of idea that we imagine, you know,
18:08people like, you know, like, Americans and stuff have of Ireland,
18:11that it's all poetry and clovers.
18:13And then, obviously, the line is when it's raincoats and police landrovers,
18:16because that's the idea we have of Ireland growing up in an urban setting.
18:19So, it's just kind of talking about that kind of, like, you know,
18:22maybe experiences you hear of and stuff.
18:24Mm-hmm.
18:24It's kind of like a reply to, like, Irish-American movies,
18:28what their perception of Ireland is.
18:29Like, Wild Mountain Time or something.
18:31Oh, those Hallmark films, yeah.
18:33Yeah, they're always the best films.
18:35Have you seen Irish Wish?
18:37Have you seen Irish Wish?
18:38Is it that one from Lindsay Lohan?
18:39Yeah, yeah.
18:40I got notes on that film.
18:42We'll talk after this.
18:43It's offensive.
18:44Wild Mountain Time as well, I think.
18:46How do you call her?
18:47There's a ginger one as well.
18:48It's just the whole movie just has dirt in her face.
18:50Yeah, yeah.
18:52The Farmer's Daughter.
18:53The only two part.
18:55Certain Irish-American people are going to love it,
18:57because it's a certain genre of movie,
18:59an Irish-American movie set in Ireland.
19:02And, like, Wild Mountain Time, your man from that famous actor.
19:05It's Christopher Walken, isn't it?
19:06It doesn't even try to put an Irish accent on.
19:09Christopher Walken doing Irish?
19:11Oh, I can't admit.
19:13No, it's not even a dick.
19:14Yeah, it's kind of like that.
19:15But see, he knows how shit that film is.
19:19That's just to pay for him to go away or something.
19:22Carnival banger.
19:23And I guess that's just about how you guys aren't the story,
19:26but you were made to seem like this kind of traveling freak show.
19:29It was, yeah, exactly.
19:31It was the carnival distraction was obviously the term that was used,
19:33that we kind of ran with.
19:36And the thing was, which is unfortunate, and it was against our will,
19:39but we became part of that, do you know what I mean?
19:40We became a cog in the wheel, do you know what I mean?
19:43Of that distraction where, yes, you know,
19:46in one instance, obviously, talking about us at that court case,
19:49it did highlight some kind of, you know,
19:52it did highlight Gaza slightly, maybe, let's say.
19:54But that time spent talking about us could have been spent doing actual journalism,
19:59you know, talking about the actual genocide in Gaza.
20:02And that was the unfortunate thing about it, you know,
20:04so we just wanted to kind of highlight that.
20:06And, you know, the media played their part, do you know what I mean?
20:08And, well, well, not forget that.
20:10It's kind of like in the court, I suppose, like, you're not, you're not talking.
20:14You know, you're not getting an opportunity to talk in court,
20:15it tells you for the lawyers.
20:16So it's like our opportunity to kind of, to give our opinion.
20:20Why do you think politicians are so obsessed with
20:23artists saying things rather than the origins of what they said?
20:26It's the same thing about, like, why is it more controversial
20:29what a band does on stage compared to, you know,
20:33like, quite literally a genocidal regime,
20:35where the prime minister of that country has an arrest warrant.
20:40Do you know what I mean?
20:41We're not the only people talking about this.
20:42We're not the only people calling it a genocide.
20:44The ICJR, do you know what I mean?
20:45And people around the world.
20:46So why is that?
20:47It's always, do you condemn, you know, Hamas or do you condemn whatever?
20:52It's never, they're never asking politicians,
20:54do they condemn the IDF?
20:57They're always looking for their column inches as well,
20:59and trying to latch on to anything that's in the news.
21:00Yeah, it's that need for, like, going towards sensationalism.
21:06Like, it kind of attends to certain people,
21:09or, like, Keir Starmer giving an interview about us playing blasphemy to the sun.
21:14Like, why would he do that?
21:16You know what I mean?
21:16That's weird, cutting the tabloid magazine about us.
21:19It's because he gets to pretend to be outraged about something that doesn't really have an impact,
21:24and then it doesn't have any repercussions for him, but it makes him look good.
21:29So we have this, like, dysfunctional symbiotic relationship with politicians.
21:34And it did seem outside the court that there was, like, obviously,
21:38that you did get the opportunity to shift the spotlight onto what was actually happening, etc.
21:43And, you know, to be in that space at that time, it felt like it.
21:46And then you guys went the mile on this album to write the song Palestine.
21:52But, I mean, what can you tell us about the weight of capturing something so profound,
21:59something that means so much to you, something that's, like, real life, you know,
22:02millions of people at risk, like, the essence of capturing that into a song?
22:06I mean, how did you tackle that?
22:08Obviously, with everything going on, like, politics was going to be intertwined for the album.
22:13And then we thought it was quite important to have, like, a representation from Palestine there.
22:18And we heard of Fousey from Rumalda, and we heard of Son Castro.
22:23We loved it, and we just, we connected with him, and thankfully he was free.
22:27This is something that we wanted to develop, building that connection between Belfast and Palestine.
22:33I think it just shows, like, it's a thing that's been in Ireland for a long time,
22:37this international solidarity.
22:39And I think, because we're musicians and artists, this is a way for us to build that bridge.
22:43And there's no better people to speak about Palestine than Palestine is.
22:47Beautiful. It's a really good song.
22:49Yeah, yeah, cheers. Yeah, I love it.
22:51And Fousey's verse is amazing.
22:53But then there's that line in Liar's Tale,
22:57kneecap always filling the void, doing politicians' jobs that they're trying to avoid.
23:02Is there ever a part of you that wishes you could just be a party band and not have to
23:06do this?
23:07In an ideal world, but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.
23:11I can do both. I think it's important, you know what I mean?
23:13I think celebration and partying and celebrating your existence is important.
23:18But I think politics can't be avoided, really.
23:20I mean, it is part of us. Politics will do you if you don't do politics.
23:23You know what I mean? You can't just ignore politics because it's part of everyday life.
23:27So, you know, I think especially where we're from in Belfast, it's part of the fabric society there.
23:33If you look at the walls around Belfast and murals, we have like Black Panthers and Nelson Mandela or Lennon
23:39Peltier.
23:40It's a part of like a normal conversation.
23:43It's not like if you're in America or something, if you talk about politics, you're going out of your way.
23:47But like in Belfast, it's just part of our day-to-day life.
23:50Small talk. It gets very intense. If you mention the troubles at the house party at 3 in the morning.
23:55Don't mention the war.
23:56Don't mention the war or United Ireland at 3 in the morning.
23:58You'll not be going home anytime soon.
24:00That's kind of the DNA of Kneecap, though, isn't it?
24:02Who said having a good time to illustrate the hard times because this is an album of bangers at the
24:07same time.
24:08So, yeah.
24:09Yeah, I think it's important to have both things, you know, and have to celebrate what we have.
24:12I think the album is a celebration of Ireland, of the Irish language still being there.
24:19I have to celebrate that there because the Irish language was, you know, nearly completely, you know,
24:24taken away from us and wiped out.
24:25So it's a celebration out there and you can't take, you can't remove politics from that process of
24:29colonisation because they're all intertwined.
24:31Well, that's it. It's kind of political with a small p as well, like a day-to-day thing.
24:34I mean, tell us about a song like Headcase and where that comes from.
24:40I think Headcase was just like, it was kind of a mix of two things.
24:44Firstly, it was just kind of the death of the characters.
24:46There was no local characters that were, you know, you know, you would always see in the streets,
24:51like obviously really sad individuals, but they would always be outside.
24:54There was alcoholics or drug addicts or whatever.
24:56And I just feel like you don't see them anymore.
24:58They're inside on their phones.
25:00No, I'm just.
25:00And Xbox.
25:01Do you know what I mean?
25:02It was the piss take of that because when obviously growing up and you're running about West Belfast,
25:05there was all the local kind of alcoholics and stuff that everybody knew who they were.
25:09Do you know what I mean?
25:11And it's just kind of drawn on those experiences and stuff as well.
25:14It wasn't too deep and intellectual of a tune to read into.
25:20And then Cold at the Top, is that about fame removing you from that?
25:26Yeah, I'd say Cold at the Top is us playing characters,
25:29like caricatures of ourselves, of how insufferable we could be.
25:32If we didn't live in Ireland, if we lived in LA, I think that's the type of movie.
25:36But I think.
25:36Next album.
25:37Next album, yeah.
25:38Thankfully in Ireland, you're kept, you're kept in the straight and narrow, you're kept humble.
25:44Yeah.
25:46And Cocaine Hill's quite affecting the song too.
25:47What can you tell us about the place that comes from?
25:49That was just one, like that was one of the first ones, like one of the first verses we record,
25:53I recorded in Diane's studio.
25:55That was another one I'd wrote years ago, just about like, just having issues fucking sleeping.
26:00And it was nothing to do with any illicit substances, just not a great sleeper.
26:04And that was one of the first, it was one of the first verses we recorded,
26:10but it was one of the last tunes that we actually finished on the album,
26:13which is kind of what started there.
26:14And then towards the end, we kind of borderline forgot about it.
26:19And then we were going through the folder, we were like,
26:20fuck, that's right.
26:21Did that, had the idea from the John Martin sample of Cocaine Hill.
26:26Put that in, had really Pete sing it.
26:28And then that was it, it just kind of came from there.
26:30I think it's great, like it's, the track itself was already made by Dan.
26:34He'd made that, I think that might have been one of the ones he made
26:37when he was in LA years ago.
26:38And we just loved it. We thought it was like a fucking soundtrack from a movie.
26:42And we just, I think it was, it's maybe 70 BPM or something.
26:46And I wrote the track in 1.40.
26:49So it was essentially just double time.
26:50So it just slid in perfectly.
26:52Sleeping okay now?
26:54Sleeping okay, yeah.
26:55Falling asleep, did you hear a fucking interview?
26:58You should have done beanbags, you should have done it on beanbags.
27:00I mean, just like drifting.
27:01Yeah, people.
27:03It's good, I guess it's a nice, I mean, with this album,
27:06we don't want to do the same stuff.
27:08Falling over again on the same album.
27:09So I think songs like Cocaine Hill or whatever else song is,
27:13is kind of a nice flip on the first album.
27:15And then one of the most personal songs we have to talk about is Irish Goodbye.
27:20And obviously that's about, about your late mother.
27:22And it's very, you know, beautifully put about her giving you courage and stuff.
27:25I mean, what did it mean to you to kind of put that into song?
27:28And what did you get out of it?
27:30Yeah, I suppose like when someone passes away, like someone close to you,
27:35it takes a long time for you to remember them.
27:39Like with nice memories or whatever, if they're going for a hard time.
27:42So obviously it's like five, six years or something now.
27:45So somebody sent me a documentary when we were in the studio.
27:50I didn't have a plan to make a tune about it,
27:51but somebody sent us a documentary with my ma in it and us as children.
27:55It was like the first time I seen us in a video and like kind of happy and stuff.
28:01So that kind of had a kind of just profound effect on me.
28:06And it kind of let me remember like just all like the happy times, whatever.
28:11So that song was kind of reflecting on the happy times,
28:15but like all the happy times were just like all this boring mundane stuff.
28:20You miss somebody.
28:21It wasn't all like the big events or anything.
28:23It was just like walking around a park or whatever.
28:26They're all kind of the small things that become really big when someone's gone.
28:29So it was really nice to be able to like go back in my memory and like recreate that
28:34in my head with the song.
28:36It kind of was a nice way to like reinforce them, them positive and happy memories.
28:41And working with K Tempest, I mean, how did K come to be in your orbit?
28:46And what do you think K brought to the track?
28:48I think Dan worked with K before and like me and Dan finished that track
28:53and we felt like there was a space to kind of bring another element into the song.
28:58And K, I think that's K's kind of world of like working in that more emotional music.
29:04That's kind of not something that we regularly do.
29:07So Dan thought of K and we thought it would obviously be the perfect fit.
29:10We had the gap for it and the song for K.
29:13So K came in and like delivered the verse and I think it's very like kind of humbling
29:20and it's a big honor for someone to be so vulnerable in front of you and to deliver that verse.
29:26They came in and did the verse like twice, wasn't it?
29:29The first one and had their big dog.
29:33So yeah, it's good for us to experience different types of music and how art can be expressed differently.
29:39And, you know, it was perfect for the ending of the album.
29:44And to have K was a big honor for us.
29:46Your parents crop up a couple of times on the record in terms of, you know,
29:49the impact they had in kind of promoting Ireland and the Irish language and that.
29:53And now I've got some stats for you.
29:54So, 400% rising pupils in Irish medium education over the last 25 years.
30:02Duolingo, people studying Irish up 70%.
30:05I mean, what does it mean to you when people like talk about the kneecap effect
30:09and the kind of like Irish language creeping back into pop culture
30:13and people not being so ashamed of seeing it as this archaic thing?
30:16So I think like, I think the first, I would say the first song,
30:19Eric Adjoa where we sample Rush with Kina and has all the samples of like my parents
30:25and like our, our teacher, Brandon, who was put, sent to jail for refusing to speak English.
30:34We're a very soldier.
30:36But like, these are the people that this, this is an ode to these people who gave up kneecap
30:41this opportunity and who set the framework, who started the schools in the cultural centres
30:45and youth clubs.
30:46And we kind of feel like kneecap is just a part of a wider movement, a language movement.
30:51We're like, on the music side of things, but there's people,
30:54as I said, working with kids and sports teams and all that stuff.
30:58It's obviously nice to have, like growing up speaking that, growing up speaking Irish,
31:01you've never really seen Irish in like mainstream areas, like on BBC Radio 6 or Radio 1.
31:07Like, I never seen it, maybe it was the odd time, but you never see it there on the cinemas.
31:12So I think it's really cool.
31:13Like if I was 16 years old now and I seen that there was an Irish language film in the
31:18cinema,
31:18I think that's a very, just makes you feel, it's very important as a young person that you feel
31:22like your culture is valued and seen in these mainstream areas.
31:28I think that's the effect it has, you know, it has a positive effect.
31:32And let's just, I mean, to go back to where you guys came from.
31:34I mean, so like Liam, before you were in kneecap, you were, you were looking at being a youth worker.
31:39JJ, obviously you used to be a teacher.
31:41You were doing a lot as well in terms of like promoting the Irish language in terms of festivals
31:44and stuff.
31:45What do you think that what you guys were and were like pre-kneecap tells us about like
31:50the need for you to create kneecap and your kind of mission statement and how
31:54that carries with everything you do?
31:55I suppose there are three things that you mentioned all kind of aligned within that
32:00phone diagram of what, like the language movement.
32:03And we all started out, we all loved the language.
32:06We kind of, whenever we were like early twenties,
32:12we just kind of seemed to find each other.
32:15Something was happening in Belfast and everybody was just drawn towards it.
32:18And we gained this big friendship group and of people who were leaving the school at a time when
32:24lots of people who were learning Irish language in a school setting,
32:28finished school and then didn't get like social chances to speak a language, you know.
32:33So we kind of found each other just at the time when we needed that kind of social outlet
32:39and music and partying and talking on Irish was kind of how it all, what it all revolved around.
32:46So yeah, all those things kind of just lined up nicely.
32:50Yeah, I think it was obviously, which as you said with the youth work and stuff,
32:54there was that kind of need for a space, like a social space. I think any kind of movement needs
33:00social spaces. And what was happening, as he said, was people were going to school,
33:04a lot of people were leaving the school with a basic grasp of Irish and then weren't really using it
33:09again.
33:09So we kind of created that social setting of Glorna Mona and that's whenever I started volunteering
33:14and then obviously getting a job there. And it was out of that kind of ethos when he kept growing,
33:22obviously that kind of need, that kind of subculture was being represented, whether it was musically
33:27or creatively or whatever. So I think it just, once we all kind of bumped heads, it kind of just,
33:32this was the natural progression to go, I think.
33:34And I think it's like a growing collective self-esteem that NICAP came out of.
33:41NICAP was kind of started around the time of, there was that En La Jarrug, which is the Irish
33:45Language March for an Irish Language Act and the Commissioner and the rights, like the same rights
33:50they have in Wales, for example, we were looking for that there. And I think like there was this
33:56growing sense of collective self-esteem. And that's where NICAP was kind of born out of,
34:02this idea that, you know, we do deserve to have the same as everybody else. And
34:06like NICAP started, but there's so many other projects that started in Belfast. And I think
34:11in Ireland in general, like you had Colin Keown, which made it to the Oscars. Like for a long time,
34:16there's been such a like heavy weight around the language, right, and a heavy seriousness or something
34:22that it's not as valued in certain places, or it's not as worthy in certain areas of art or consumption.
34:29So I think we just came in at a time. Like we had these jobs, youth workers and teachers and
34:33working
34:34at events because we had these jobs in the Irish language and said, okay, we have these jobs and
34:38we should, we should have art and culture and these things. So I think that's, that's kind of where
34:42that seed was planted.
34:44And in terms of those seeds, I mean, have you seen, have you noticed many people back home like
34:50forming Irish language bands, becoming Irish language artists, or is it more of a kind of internal self-esteem
34:55thing that it's like, gradually, gradually, yeah, gradually there's a lot more. But again,
35:00I think that was the progression that was going anyway. I think we get too much of a pat on
35:03the
35:03back for these kind of things. You know, a lot of the hard work was done. This is the result
35:08of the hard work, what we're doing, not, not, not as a result of us. Do you know what I
35:12mean?
35:12So we, we, we are the, you know, we're standing on the, the soldiers of giants,
35:18standing on the shoulders of giants. You know, all these people who actually sacrificed before us,
35:23like families and stuff in the west of Ireland, who kept their language alive. Like those are
35:27the real sacrifices. That's the real hard work. And we're actually just reaping the benefits of that.
35:31And I think part of it was like, we're always looking towards, I think like towards England.
35:36So like validation of like music or art, but now we're kind of maybe looking more inwards.
35:41So now you seem a lot more, I think like what you see in Ireland in general, the music scene,
35:45is, is a result of that there. Like people, us depending on ourselves to create music with all these,
35:51like, these are all the bands coming out, Maddo Salad, obviously Fontaine's, The Growers,
35:56I mean, endless bands, Mary Wallabers coming up now, which I felt like wasn't there, maybe 30 years ago.
36:01Just going to The Scratch. The Scratch as well, there's the class band, Scratch. And
36:06I can't even, I can't even, Big Pig. There's endless. There's endless.
36:10It feels like every, any time we're talking to journalists, there's such a buzz around.
36:14And Ireland's cool, along with. It feels like the Irish have always been known kind of,
36:20from what I can remember, all over the world for certain, certain things like, but now it's
36:26kind of being known culturally for, for what's actually Irish, for the music, for the language,
36:31for sports, for crack. This is it. When there's a culture oppressed for so long,
36:39whenever that oppression slowly but surely starts to ease up, it's just an explosion of it,
36:43you know what I mean? But it's an explosion of art. There's been a vacuum there for a long time,
36:48and now, my friend, I think what's happening is, just very quickly, I feel like what's happening
36:53now is Irish artists are starting to make art for themselves and for their, you know, for,
36:59Not for export. Yeah, not for export and not for, not for, they're not creating art that's
37:04palatable for Americans now. Do you know what I mean? We're doing it for ourselves and I think that's
37:08why it exploded because people see the authenticity in that and people respect that.
37:12And in terms of you guys, in terms of all of the, um, all of the, like,
37:16attempts to knock you guys back, to silence you, to kind of get back on your feet and come back
37:20with,
37:21to such a strong record, how do you guys feel about the future right now? What do you want for
37:26Kneecap? What do you want for yourselves? How do you see it going?
37:29We're happy, baby, still, you know, creating music and just having the opportunity to go
37:34around the world and, like, meet with people from, you know, different Indigenous backgrounds,
37:40Aboriginal cultures, Miss Kanina, we in Australia. Um, I think that's such a cool thing happening at
37:45the moment. There's people, not just in Ireland, you know, people all around the world are kind of going
37:49towards, like, their native Indigenous language and that's something that hopefully in the future that we
37:54can kind of connect more with around the world. We're just very lucky to be doing what we're doing
37:58and try not to think too far ahead and just kind of reminding yourselves that, you know,
38:02how lucky we are and long may last. Do you have the fear that the next kind of attempt to
38:07silence
38:08he's just around the corner? I don't know, try not to think about these things. Um, if it is,
38:12it's going to be out of our hands anyway, you know what I mean? So we'll just do us as
38:17much as we can
38:18and for as long as people listen to us and as long as there's a demand there, we'll continue to
38:21create.
38:21Yeah, we're happy. We're over the moon and we're getting to work with people like that
38:26and working with Kerry Tempus and all these people. It's such a class experience and this is something
38:30that we, we started NECAP and again, maybe this was a lack of self-esteem. We thought nobody would
38:35be interested in NECAP outside of like our 10 friends, but maybe that was again, that was something
38:42was changing and people were looking for something more maybe authentic and we kind of, our own
38:47confidence grew and I think over the years our confidence, our self-esteem has grown in the NECAP
38:51and that's something that we're continuing to work on and hopefully that'll bring us to new places
38:56around the world and hopefully the next generation is able to take some more self-esteem and take it
39:01to the next level as well. Yeah, that'd be cool. That's, that's something cool. If we can, if we're an
39:06inspiration for other bands to do a similar thing in Irish and even better, that's, that'll be, that'll be a
39:12great conclusion of NECAP. In the very least, you've got some good material for NECAP, the movie 2.
39:18Am I going to start a franchise movie? I don't know, 2, 3, 4, 5. I will see, if the
39:22money's red.
39:23Like the Irishman. Who's going to play Keir Starmer? Oh. Quasimoro. Jesus Christ, there you go.
39:33Sean Osborne. Sean Osborne as Keir Starmer. He might be able to play himself if he's looking for work though.
39:39Yeah, he might be able to do a job at that stage. He might actually. I see it. If you're
39:43well-behaved, Keir.
39:44You wouldn't want to be doing Sean's makeup in a way. Jesus Christ.
39:48And I know, NECAP, thank you so much. Always a pleasure. Thanks guys. Thank you, thank you.
39:52Thank you. Bye buddy.
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