- 3 months ago
As Kneecap release their bold and ballsy second album, the controversial Belfast trio tell NME about the 'carnival of distraction' of their terror trial after Coachella, reclaiming their identity, fighting to keep language alive, and Ireland's increased "collective self-esteem" for In Conversation
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00:00You could cut any comedian into a five second clip and they could look like the worst people
00:04in the world. Do you know what I mean? Everything's in context. There's never ever been an issue
00:07of the kneecap gig and a kneecap member has never been convicted of any crime in any country ever.
00:20Hi, I'm Andrew Shrendel. You're watching NME's In Conversation. We're here today with kneecap.
00:25What's happening? How are we doing guys? Hi there. Nice to be back.
00:28Can we look down the camera? Yeah, if you want to hypnotize someone, it's that one or that one.
00:32Break the fifth floor. But it's been 18 months or so since we last spoke.
00:39Pretty un-evanful. Pretty un-evanful a few months, I must say.
00:43A few months, wasn't it? We'll take our gardening.
00:46Yeah, right. We did. Yeah, it's been a busy few months, let's say.
00:51Yeah. Well, we're here now with Feenian out next week. What does that word mean to you?
00:59And what power does it have? And why did you decide to kind of,
01:03that for that to be the name of this album for this era?
01:05I suppose obviously like, Feenian originally came from Irish folklore. It was a band of warriors
01:12from like old Irish stories that date back like 1500 years. Then it was repurposed as from like
01:20several rebellions in the 18th, 19th century. And then in modern times it was used as like a derogatory
01:26slur, I suppose, for like Irish nationalists. So in the north for Irish people coming to London.
01:30Well, you Feenian. You can swear, Rogan. Oh, you can swear? You Feenian.
01:36Cunt.
01:37But I think like part of the word, like kind of, we didn't start reclaiming this word. This is
01:42something that's been happening long before we chose this name for the album. But I think
01:47we wanted to kind of join forces with that reclaim of that word. And also I think it shows like
01:55the power of language and why certain language is used when you have a colonising country and the
02:02oppressed people. You use a certain language to demean them people. And if you're calling
02:07someone Feenian, I think you're insinuating that they're backwards or they are uncivilised.
02:14So that's what colonisers do. They use language to demean the people. So they take away the value.
02:20It happens in Palestine and it happened all around the world. India and Kenya. So part of that is
02:26us reclaiming the Feenian, reclaiming that uncivilised side of us and that warrior and that forest
02:32dweller. So that's kind of the idea with the name. Yeah. Badge of pride. Looks good on March too.
02:37It does look good on March. Two syllables is always good. But a lot's happened. I mean, it took us
02:43a while
02:43to get to this point. I remember we spoke in summer 2024. You said you guys were all well on
02:49the way
02:49with the next album, the follow up to Fine Art. But I guess life got in the way.
02:54Yeah, no, we actually, we had a, we had an album finished at the start of last year. And
03:02yeah, just whatever. It just became, it was just at the wrong time. And it's a couple of great songs
03:07on it, but it's just at the wrong time. And we just kind of decided rather than kind of trying
03:11to
03:12revive half of the songs or whatever, we just thought maybe it was time to just start scratch. And
03:17obviously try something completely different, even though the album probably would have went down
03:21well and stuff. It just, it just didn't feel right at that time. So just the term kill your babies,
03:25we just had to kill 12 of our babies and start again. And that's whenever we brought
03:30Diane Curry. Like we tried to work with Diane Curry for about three or four years now, but
03:36schedules just didn't work up. He's a busy man. Obviously we were busy, just didn't really work up.
03:40And then for this album and I can't remember what month it was. We were there September, October,
03:46September, October, it just worked out for us. And we were there, as we said, we moved in,
03:51we were renting a house, maybe 16 doors down from the studio. So we, we spent seven weeks in the
03:56same
03:57street basically. And, but it had a wee pub on the corner and stuff. So it was everything we needed.
04:01So we were absolutely delighted to work with Diane. It was a long time coming. And then obviously he just
04:06brought this kind of freshness to it, you know, this kind of musical complexity that we were kind
04:11of looking for, you know, the kind of next step up, obviously we're very simplistic in our approach.
04:15So having someone who's very, you know, very complex and very, you know, clever musically,
04:20it really just meshed together perfectly with us. And we kind of, kind of hit that sweet spot where it
04:24was
04:25kind of the next level up, a more mature certain album, but still, instead, you know, authentic, the kneecap.
04:30It was like being in the studio of like, and what's the word, eccentric, scientist,
04:38like creating potions and creating all this stuff. Can we, can we fact check that, eccentric?
04:43Jamie, pull that up. It's in my second language. But like, yeah, like a scientist,
04:46because they were always crazy, like a big body to create all these potions, because they had like,
04:51fucking simps all over the walls and like, clavialine. I don't know, I haven't heard of all
04:57these things. It was like one of the original simps from like the sixties or something. I don't know,
05:03it was some fucking relic that he brought out. And we just fell in love with the sound of it.
05:06Just whipping out stuff and like, like, let's try this. And then we're like,
05:09so it was cool. Like, that's exactly our sound.
05:12Can we get much of the album away?
05:16Was that, was that Lost Batch? Is that where the recap and Sayonara came from?
05:20No, that actually, no, that was Moosey, the recap.
05:25Yeah. No, they were, they were all just fresh.
05:26They were single from Paul Hartnell, actually from Orbital.
05:31You were very fixed that they had to be separate too.
05:33Yeah, because I suppose, I think with this, we wanted to start a new project,
05:38a whole project that, with Dan Kyrie, one person, and kind of sit there for seven weeks
05:43and try and work on something that, you know, had bigger sounds and more complex sounds
05:48and see if you can try and come up with something new. And it kept that interesting for us.
05:52And I think like, obviously we had the court case during the studio and we also had the Wembley Arena
05:56concert during the seven weeks we were in the studio. So, you know, Dan was at the gig and he
06:02was just kind of like trying to find sounds that would fill them rooms, you know, so that was a
06:07big
06:07part of this album was trying to try and get bigger sounds and kind of experiment with it.
06:11Yeah, I think most bands or most like artists or whatever, when they're doing an album,
06:15they maybe can have most of it wrote or are able to kind of go to the studio and lock
06:19themselves
06:20away for a few months. Whereas us, obviously we were getting dragged on the news, the magistrate's
06:24court and stuff. And then obviously Wembley, as we said, which was a huge deal for us at the time.
06:27So these things that should have been a hindrance and like on paper kind of were a hindrance.
06:32As I said, Dan went to the Wembley gig, he kind of had ideas for what was going to fill
06:37that room.
06:38So it actually, in the end, it was more of an inspiration, really, and an influence on the album
06:42than a hindrance, which was the best kind of outcome for it, you know.
06:45And how would you say that altered the chemistry of kneecap?
06:51The creative chemistry, not the chemicals.
06:53Yeah, well, I mean, I was able to see how the inside of a courtroom worked.
06:59So that helped for writing carnival.
07:01Just kind of things like that, you know, I was kind of like dazed out.
07:04Like, I wasn't really paying much attention to the judge.
07:06I was just kind of like thinking of things.
07:08Glancing diggle in your head.
07:10I don't mean no pad, I was just writing away tunes.
07:13No, but that was it, basically, just it was an experience.
07:15And obviously, the best thing about the whole thing was the amount of people that come out and supported us.
07:19And, you know, showing up that first day at the Magistrates Court,
07:22like hundreds of people there that I've never met, that have never met me.
07:25And it was just, it was heartwarming, you know.
07:27It was nice to see.
07:31And just a massive shout out to everybody that took time out of their days to come and do that.
07:35Like, I appreciate it.
07:35Well, I came down to two or three of them, and it felt like a gig.
07:40Well, you're definitely on some kind of list now, anyway.
07:42Oh, shit.
07:43Yeah, there definitely was that sort of atmosphere there.
07:45I thought it was kind of similar to Glastonbury.
07:48Last year, there was this, that kind of, that atmosphere there that's, I would say, festive,
07:54but also, like, kind of solidarity was a very big aspect of it.
07:57That's the thing about the people that sort of, like, had it took issue with Glastonbury
08:02and made headlines out of Glastonbury were clearly not there.
08:05Because there was nothing but love.
08:07I think Sharon Osbourne was there.
08:08Oh, yeah, she was there, yeah.
08:10Sharon Osbourne and Tony Robinson.
08:12But that was it.
08:12I mean, how do you feel?
08:15Let's just talk about kneecap pre-coachella, post-coachella.
08:18How do you feel things were going?
08:19And then how would you describe the kind of, the mentality of being a kneecap post-coachella?
08:26I mean, yeah, things were obviously, like, things were obviously going very well.
08:30And things went well after Coachella as well, do you know what I mean?
08:33The thing is, we never did anything different than Coachella.
08:35It's the same gig we played all year, but obviously just that we were in America and that there
08:40was thousands of young Americans shouting free Palestine.
08:44Like, you know, I just think the mainstream media in America have tried to kind of hide
08:48away, you know, the kind of Palestinian movement in America.
08:52So whenever there was no kind of, there was no disguising the fact that young Americans
08:57were, you know, in solidarity with Palestine, I think that was something that the mainstream
09:01media couldn't handle.
09:02And that's something that the mainstream media have tried to hide for so long.
09:05It was something that the same people who were outside the court for the case as well were
09:10the same people who were out supporting Palestine action, you know, because they saw censorship
09:13happening and they saw abuses of power and they were like, right, if this is allowed to carry
09:18on, then who's next?
09:21You know, and so not challenging those abuses of power would be kind of dereliction of their actions.
09:26So it's the same kind of people, but that's what happens, you know.
09:29As soon as arts kind of, they try to put a blockade on art and people expressing themselves
09:36and it's a slippery slope on the fascism.
09:40Do you feel that, like, the conversations moved on significantly because, you know,
09:44obviously you doing what you did in Coachella, like, kind of stopped things in its tracks a bit.
09:48And then we just had the Strokes do something quite similar and speak out against the government
09:52and, you know, destroying the last university in Gaza.
09:54That was a big thing to happen during a headline set.
09:56A thousand artists speaking out to boycott. Eurovision is no small thing.
10:01Yeah.
10:01Do you feel like things have moved on?
10:03Yeah, definitely.
10:04The boundary, like, the limitations of what bands think they can do has definitely shifted us.
10:08And, like, has the Strokes ever done stuff like that before?
10:12I know Julian's, like, he's been very pro-Palestine.
10:15Yeah, I've seen him talking about Palestine.
10:16I think that's cool.
10:17And, like, obviously, even at Coachella, there were other bands who spoke out for Palestine as well.
10:23It wasn't just us.
10:24Obviously, we were in the news, but there were other bands.
10:27But definitely, I think there is a shift because I think there's more solidarity between the bands
10:32who speak out for Palestine.
10:33So they feel maybe safer to put yourself out there.
10:36Because I think before this, it was quite isolating if you spoke out for Palestine or whatever.
10:42And that's the whole reason for that, I think, to kind of make you feel insecure in your job.
10:46And then to the court case of it, just kind of hit the nail on the head early on.
10:49I mean, naturally, I appreciate there's probably only a certain amount you can say with regards
10:54to the government still, like, hanging around like vultures on you and stuff.
10:56But in terms of, like, if there's, like, a would-be potential kneecap fan out there
11:01who kind of wants to be part of this but has a big question mark about the event, you know,
11:06the thing with the flag, what led to everything, is there anything you'd like to say about that
11:11to kind of put it in the context of what went down the heat of the moment and what kneecap
11:15as a performance?
11:16We've spoken about this a million times and we've had, you know, press statements.
11:23We've kind of, we've talked about it a lot.
11:24Let's just say we don't pick flags up on stage anymore.
11:27And then it's just like, you don't know what's going on when the lights are down?
11:31Ah, jeez, it's impossible.
11:32Like, it's hard to, it's hard to, it's hard to even see what's happening.
11:36It's just, it feels like a gig is, it's over before you know it.
11:40It's something like you fucking barely remember anything.
11:42Yeah, I'm not going to get into it, obviously.
11:44We've kind of, we've talked about it already.
11:46I feel like, obviously, we won.
11:48We expected to win.
11:49It just shows how kind of ludicrous the whole case was.
11:52That they threw millions of pounds at it, tried for an appeal and it all lost.
11:58It just shows how ludicrous the entire thing was.
12:00When you take things out of, you know, when you take years and years of gigs,
12:04and you compact it into 20 seconds of a satirical band on stage,
12:11it's just kind of like, you know, obviously, you could cut any comedian on earth
12:15into a five second clip and they could look like the worst people in the world.
12:19Do you know what I mean?
12:19Everything's in context.
12:20There's never, ever been an issue at a kneecap gig.
12:23And a kneecap member has never been convicted of any crime in any country ever.
12:27So I'm going to start slowly but surely moving on.
12:30But then for it to put the spotlight back onto the gigs, because in terms of everything
12:35you guys have ever said publicly, the things you say in the music,
12:40the things you say at songs, you're an anti-hate band.
12:43Of course.
12:44It's the same thing like we've, again, we talk about it all the time.
12:47We come from Belfast.
12:48We understand sectarian violence.
12:49We understand sectarianism.
12:51We understand religious divide serves absolutely nobody.
12:54We think, you know, anti-Semitism is a real issue.
12:58And it's growing at the minute.
12:59And it's something that generally needs to be talked about, needs to be tackled.
13:02But what happens is whenever you have the Zenist lobby, labeling, bands, actors as anti-Semitic,
13:10just because they speak out against Israel, you're starting to water down that term.
13:15And that's a term that we need to be talking about a lot more,
13:18because it's on the rise all around the world.
13:19So we are obviously not anti-Semitic.
13:22I think anybody with any kind of right mind knows that.
13:25And, you know, as you said, we don't stand for any kind of hate or gigs
13:30or any kind of fascist ideologies or whatever, you know.
13:32We're from Belfast.
13:33We're Irish.
13:34It's not in our nature.
13:36And then what was it?
13:37Was it cool to be enemy of the state for a minute?
13:39Enemy.
13:40Aye.
13:41It's his turn next.
13:42I'd say.
13:43Was it cool to be enemy of the state?
13:45Yeah.
13:45I mean, yeah, I think there's a good tradition there of English, English governments, you know,
13:53choosing Irish people as enemies.
13:54And there's a long history there of Irish people being criminalized for crimes they never committed.
14:00So, I mean, it's pretty cool, Mike.
14:02It's not, we're not the first Irish person to be called the terrorist.
14:06Yeah.
14:06Put it on your CV, enemy of the state.
14:08It's good.
14:08It's not a lot of CVs in Belfast.
14:10How would you describe that kind of, because second albums are famously difficult enough
14:15as it is, but to then do that with the knowledge that there's people waiting for it, to hear
14:21what you've got to say, to hear if you can back it up, to see if the music matches the
14:25politics
14:25and like, you know, why are these guys filling arenas?
14:28Did that kind of pressure enter your mind, like in terms of making this record a statement?
14:33Yeah, I don't, I didn't see this pressure, no.
14:35I thought that obviously we do kind of thrive in the chaos, as we say, do you know what I
14:40mean?
14:40Like sometimes, sometimes it's easier to deal with things when it's so chaotic
14:43and you're on to the next thing and stuff.
14:45So we obviously, you know, this album, we understood that there was a lot of eyes on this album.
14:50As you said, second album syndrome, do you know what I mean?
14:52It's, it's, it's quite, it's quite intense, I'd say for a lot of bands.
14:57We, yeah, we, we, we knew obviously if you were a kneecap fan and you've been,
15:01you know, watching what had been going on for the last year, you'd be absolutely very disappointed
15:05if there was no mention of it in the album.
15:07But of course there is, and we wouldn't let you down.
15:09And it's still at that point now with the album where it's not, not released.
15:13So it's still kind of ours, do you know what I mean?
15:15It's kind of our wee secret.
15:16We haven't released it.
15:17So we're, we're, we're ready to, we're ready to pull it out.
15:19Let it out.
15:21And now feel, it must be feel really strange to like,
15:24you have obviously had the first mix.
15:25You had a debut album, you made a fucking movie.
15:28And it's only now people are, you know, coming to get to know you.
15:31That must feel pretty surreal.
15:34I don't know, I don't really think about it too much.
15:37It is nice though that you get to play big stages of classroom and stuff.
15:41That obviously is an honor.
15:42You don't really think about it now when you're writing these songs or doing,
15:45doing, making music.
15:46You're not really thinking too much of the inside world.
15:48You're just kind of thinking of the inside world, inside your head.
15:52And it's an album that's as political as it is personal.
15:57Let's just start with Anrah about the, you know,
16:00all of Britain's amazing gifts to Ireland.
16:02That's a good way to put it.
16:03Jimmy Savile and HP Sauce.
16:04Now that is a worthy cause.
16:05That's going to look good on a t-shirt, right?
16:08We've been in enough trouble.
16:09I love brown sauce though.
16:11Like on, on sausages and stuff.
16:13Brown sauce and free healthcare.
16:14Other than that.
16:16That's all we're taking.
16:17Other than that, that's it.
16:17We're keeping that.
16:20He's going to have an ale and what else?
16:25Brown sauce and sausages.
16:27No, sorry.
16:27Brown sauce and the NHS.
16:29Brown sauce and the NHS.
16:30Bits of the BBC.
16:33But what can you tell us about approaching that song
16:35and kind of the balance you were trying to...
16:36That was actually one that was wrote a while back.
16:38I think that was wrote for like...
16:40I don't even know.
16:41We wrote that in the studio years ago in Belfast.
16:43Like it was an old, old one.
16:44It was originally like a lo-fi kind of hip-hop.
16:47Lo-fi.
16:47Like, do you know, it was obviously like a piss take of like a love letter
16:51to how much we're going to miss the United Kingdom
16:53whenever we get a United Ireland.
16:55Because like, the joke is like, I was saying that...
16:58When they went and colonising countries,
17:01talk about bringing civilised in other countries.
17:04And that's the whole joke about colonisation.
17:05They're like, oh, we've civilised Ireland or Kenya or India.
17:09So we're kind of playing with that idea that they...
17:12Actually, we were quite civilised before they got there.
17:15We had our own, we had our own laws, systems in place.
17:19So...
17:19Nothing more civil than genocide.
17:22Jesus Christ.
17:26Fucking hell.
17:27There's an R-T-shirt.
17:28A copy off guard.
17:28A 4-T-shirt.
17:30I'm going to say, in the UK,
17:31like, if you translate the UK to Irish, it's R-A.
17:36So, obviously, raked into here, United Kingdom.
17:38So, R-A.
17:39Looks like the R-A to play on words about the I-R-A.
17:41So, it's the whole thing.
17:45We're expecting people who don't speak Irish to come out outraged,
17:48thinking it's a song about the I-R-A,
17:49when we can obviously explain to them that it's actually a love letter
17:52for the United Kingdom.
17:53We thought you'd like that.
17:54Thanks, guys.
17:55Flipped it.
17:56Flipped it.
17:57And then with Smugglers and Scholars,
17:59what did you want to say about the real Ireland that people might not see?
18:03I suppose Smugglers and Scholars was down to,
18:06like, this kind of idea that we imagine, you know,
18:08people like, you know, like, Americans and stuff have of Ireland,
18:11that it's all poetry and clovers.
18:13And then, obviously, the line is when it's raincoats and police landrovers,
18:16because that's the idea we have of Ireland growing up in an urban setting.
18:19So, it's just kind of talking about that kind of, like, you know,
18:22maybe experiences you hear of and stuff.
18:24Mm-hmm.
18:24It's kind of like a reply to, like, Irish-American movies,
18:28what their perception of Ireland is.
18:29Like, Wild Mountain Time or something.
18:31Oh, those Hallmark films, yeah.
18:33Yeah, they're always the best films.
18:35Have you seen Irish Wish?
18:37Have you seen Irish Wish?
18:38Is it that one from Lindsay Lohan?
18:39Yeah, yeah.
18:40I got notes on that film.
18:42We'll talk after this.
18:43It's offensive.
18:44Wild Mountain Time as well, I think.
18:46How do you call her?
18:47There's a ginger one as well.
18:48It's just the whole movie just has dirt in her face.
18:50Yeah, yeah.
18:52The Farmer's Daughter.
18:53The only two part.
18:55Certain Irish-American people are going to love it,
18:57because it's a certain genre of movie,
18:59an Irish-American movie set in Ireland.
19:02And, like, Wild Mountain Time, your man from that famous actor.
19:05It's Christopher Walken, isn't it?
19:06It doesn't even try to put an Irish accent on.
19:09Christopher Walken doing Irish?
19:11Oh, I can't admit.
19:13No, it's not even a dick.
19:14Yeah, it's kind of like that.
19:15But see, he knows how shit that film is.
19:19That's just to pay for him to go away or something.
19:22Carnival banger.
19:23And I guess that's just about how you guys aren't the story,
19:26but you were made to seem like this kind of traveling freak show.
19:29It was, yeah, exactly.
19:31It was the carnival distraction was obviously the term that was used,
19:33that we kind of ran with.
19:36And the thing was, which is unfortunate, and it was against our will,
19:39but we became part of that, do you know what I mean?
19:40We became a cog in the wheel, do you know what I mean?
19:43Of that distraction where, yes, you know,
19:46in one instance, obviously, talking about us at that court case,
19:49it did highlight some kind of, you know,
19:52it did highlight Gaza slightly, maybe, let's say.
19:54But that time spent talking about us could have been spent doing actual journalism,
19:59you know, talking about the actual genocide in Gaza.
20:02And that was the unfortunate thing about it, you know,
20:04so we just wanted to kind of highlight that.
20:06And, you know, the media played their part, do you know what I mean?
20:08And, well, well, not forget that.
20:10It's kind of like in the court, I suppose, like, you're not, you're not talking.
20:14You know, you're not getting an opportunity to talk in court,
20:15it tells you for the lawyers.
20:16So it's like our opportunity to kind of, to give our opinion.
20:20Why do you think politicians are so obsessed with
20:23artists saying things rather than the origins of what they said?
20:26It's the same thing about, like, why is it more controversial
20:29what a band does on stage compared to, you know,
20:33like, quite literally a genocidal regime,
20:35where the prime minister of that country has an arrest warrant.
20:40Do you know what I mean?
20:41We're not the only people talking about this.
20:42We're not the only people calling it a genocide.
20:44The ICJR, do you know what I mean?
20:45And people around the world.
20:46So why is that?
20:47It's always, do you condemn, you know, Hamas or do you condemn whatever?
20:52It's never, they're never asking politicians,
20:54do they condemn the IDF?
20:57They're always looking for their column inches as well,
20:59and trying to latch on to anything that's in the news.
21:00Yeah, it's that need for, like, going towards sensationalism.
21:06Like, it kind of attends to certain people,
21:09or, like, Keir Starmer giving an interview about us playing blasphemy to the sun.
21:14Like, why would he do that?
21:16You know what I mean?
21:16That's weird, cutting the tabloid magazine about us.
21:19It's because he gets to pretend to be outraged about something that doesn't really have an impact,
21:24and then it doesn't have any repercussions for him, but it makes him look good.
21:29So we have this, like, dysfunctional symbiotic relationship with politicians.
21:34And it did seem outside the court that there was, like, obviously,
21:38that you did get the opportunity to shift the spotlight onto what was actually happening, etc.
21:43And, you know, to be in that space at that time, it felt like it.
21:46And then you guys went the mile on this album to write the song Palestine.
21:52But, I mean, what can you tell us about the weight of capturing something so profound,
21:59something that means so much to you, something that's, like, real life, you know,
22:02millions of people at risk, like, the essence of capturing that into a song?
22:06I mean, how did you tackle that?
22:08Obviously, with everything going on, like, politics was going to be intertwined for the album.
22:13And then we thought it was quite important to have, like, a representation from Palestine there.
22:18And we heard of Fousey from Rumalda, and we heard of Son Castro.
22:23We loved it, and we just, we connected with him, and thankfully he was free.
22:27This is something that we wanted to develop, building that connection between Belfast and Palestine.
22:33I think it just shows, like, it's a thing that's been in Ireland for a long time,
22:37this international solidarity.
22:39And I think, because we're musicians and artists, this is a way for us to build that bridge.
22:43And there's no better people to speak about Palestine than Palestine is.
22:47Beautiful. It's a really good song.
22:49Yeah, yeah, cheers. Yeah, I love it.
22:51And Fousey's verse is amazing.
22:53But then there's that line in Liar's Tale,
22:57kneecap always filling the void, doing politicians' jobs that they're trying to avoid.
23:02Is there ever a part of you that wishes you could just be a party band and not have to
23:06do this?
23:07In an ideal world, but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.
23:11I can do both. I think it's important, you know what I mean?
23:13I think celebration and partying and celebrating your existence is important.
23:18But I think politics can't be avoided, really.
23:20I mean, it is part of us. Politics will do you if you don't do politics.
23:23You know what I mean? You can't just ignore politics because it's part of everyday life.
23:27So, you know, I think especially where we're from in Belfast, it's part of the fabric society there.
23:33If you look at the walls around Belfast and murals, we have like Black Panthers and Nelson Mandela or Lennon
23:39Peltier.
23:40It's a part of like a normal conversation.
23:43It's not like if you're in America or something, if you talk about politics, you're going out of your way.
23:47But like in Belfast, it's just part of our day-to-day life.
23:50Small talk. It gets very intense. If you mention the troubles at the house party at 3 in the morning.
23:55Don't mention the war.
23:56Don't mention the war or United Ireland at 3 in the morning.
23:58You'll not be going home anytime soon.
24:00That's kind of the DNA of Kneecap, though, isn't it?
24:02Who said having a good time to illustrate the hard times because this is an album of bangers at the
24:07same time.
24:08So, yeah.
24:09Yeah, I think it's important to have both things, you know, and have to celebrate what we have.
24:12I think the album is a celebration of Ireland, of the Irish language still being there.
24:19I have to celebrate that there because the Irish language was, you know, nearly completely, you know,
24:24taken away from us and wiped out.
24:25So it's a celebration out there and you can't take, you can't remove politics from that process of
24:29colonisation because they're all intertwined.
24:31Well, that's it. It's kind of political with a small p as well, like a day-to-day thing.
24:34I mean, tell us about a song like Headcase and where that comes from.
24:40I think Headcase was just like, it was kind of a mix of two things.
24:44Firstly, it was just kind of the death of the characters.
24:46There was no local characters that were, you know, you know, you would always see in the streets,
24:51like obviously really sad individuals, but they would always be outside.
24:54There was alcoholics or drug addicts or whatever.
24:56And I just feel like you don't see them anymore.
24:58They're inside on their phones.
25:00No, I'm just.
25:00And Xbox.
25:01Do you know what I mean?
25:02It was the piss take of that because when obviously growing up and you're running about West Belfast,
25:05there was all the local kind of alcoholics and stuff that everybody knew who they were.
25:09Do you know what I mean?
25:11And it's just kind of drawn on those experiences and stuff as well.
25:14It wasn't too deep and intellectual of a tune to read into.
25:20And then Cold at the Top, is that about fame removing you from that?
25:26Yeah, I'd say Cold at the Top is us playing characters,
25:29like caricatures of ourselves, of how insufferable we could be.
25:32If we didn't live in Ireland, if we lived in LA, I think that's the type of movie.
25:36But I think.
25:36Next album.
25:37Next album, yeah.
25:38Thankfully in Ireland, you're kept, you're kept in the straight and narrow, you're kept humble.
25:44Yeah.
25:46And Cocaine Hill's quite affecting the song too.
25:47What can you tell us about the place that comes from?
25:49That was just one, like that was one of the first ones, like one of the first verses we record,
25:53I recorded in Diane's studio.
25:55That was another one I'd wrote years ago, just about like, just having issues fucking sleeping.
26:00And it was nothing to do with any illicit substances, just not a great sleeper.
26:04And that was one of the first, it was one of the first verses we recorded,
26:10but it was one of the last tunes that we actually finished on the album,
26:13which is kind of what started there.
26:14And then towards the end, we kind of borderline forgot about it.
26:19And then we were going through the folder, we were like,
26:20fuck, that's right.
26:21Did that, had the idea from the John Martin sample of Cocaine Hill.
26:26Put that in, had really Pete sing it.
26:28And then that was it, it just kind of came from there.
26:30I think it's great, like it's, the track itself was already made by Dan.
26:34He'd made that, I think that might have been one of the ones he made
26:37when he was in LA years ago.
26:38And we just loved it. We thought it was like a fucking soundtrack from a movie.
26:42And we just, I think it was, it's maybe 70 BPM or something.
26:46And I wrote the track in 1.40.
26:49So it was essentially just double time.
26:50So it just slid in perfectly.
26:52Sleeping okay now?
26:54Sleeping okay, yeah.
26:55Falling asleep, did you hear a fucking interview?
26:58You should have done beanbags, you should have done it on beanbags.
27:00I mean, just like drifting.
27:01Yeah, people.
27:03It's good, I guess it's a nice, I mean, with this album,
27:06we don't want to do the same stuff.
27:08Falling over again on the same album.
27:09So I think songs like Cocaine Hill or whatever else song is,
27:13is kind of a nice flip on the first album.
27:15And then one of the most personal songs we have to talk about is Irish Goodbye.
27:20And obviously that's about, about your late mother.
27:22And it's very, you know, beautifully put about her giving you courage and stuff.
27:25I mean, what did it mean to you to kind of put that into song?
27:28And what did you get out of it?
27:30Yeah, I suppose like when someone passes away, like someone close to you,
27:35it takes a long time for you to remember them.
27:39Like with nice memories or whatever, if they're going for a hard time.
27:42So obviously it's like five, six years or something now.
27:45So somebody sent me a documentary when we were in the studio.
27:50I didn't have a plan to make a tune about it,
27:51but somebody sent us a documentary with my ma in it and us as children.
27:55It was like the first time I seen us in a video and like kind of happy and stuff.
28:01So that kind of had a kind of just profound effect on me.
28:06And it kind of let me remember like just all like the happy times, whatever.
28:11So that song was kind of reflecting on the happy times,
28:15but like all the happy times were just like all this boring mundane stuff.
28:20You miss somebody.
28:21It wasn't all like the big events or anything.
28:23It was just like walking around a park or whatever.
28:26They're all kind of the small things that become really big when someone's gone.
28:29So it was really nice to be able to like go back in my memory and like recreate that
28:34in my head with the song.
28:36It kind of was a nice way to like reinforce them, them positive and happy memories.
28:41And working with K Tempest, I mean, how did K come to be in your orbit?
28:46And what do you think K brought to the track?
28:48I think Dan worked with K before and like me and Dan finished that track
28:53and we felt like there was a space to kind of bring another element into the song.
28:58And K, I think that's K's kind of world of like working in that more emotional music.
29:04That's kind of not something that we regularly do.
29:07So Dan thought of K and we thought it would obviously be the perfect fit.
29:10We had the gap for it and the song for K.
29:13So K came in and like delivered the verse and I think it's very like kind of humbling
29:20and it's a big honor for someone to be so vulnerable in front of you and to deliver that verse.
29:26They came in and did the verse like twice, wasn't it?
29:29The first one and had their big dog.
29:33So yeah, it's good for us to experience different types of music and how art can be expressed differently.
29:39And, you know, it was perfect for the ending of the album.
29:44And to have K was a big honor for us.
29:46Your parents crop up a couple of times on the record in terms of, you know,
29:49the impact they had in kind of promoting Ireland and the Irish language and that.
29:53And now I've got some stats for you.
29:54So, 400% rising pupils in Irish medium education over the last 25 years.
30:02Duolingo, people studying Irish up 70%.
30:05I mean, what does it mean to you when people like talk about the kneecap effect
30:09and the kind of like Irish language creeping back into pop culture
30:13and people not being so ashamed of seeing it as this archaic thing?
30:16So I think like, I think the first, I would say the first song,
30:19Eric Adjoa where we sample Rush with Kina and has all the samples of like my parents
30:25and like our, our teacher, Brandon, who was put, sent to jail for refusing to speak English.
30:34We're a very soldier.
30:36But like, these are the people that this, this is an ode to these people who gave up kneecap
30:41this opportunity and who set the framework, who started the schools in the cultural centres
30:45and youth clubs.
30:46And we kind of feel like kneecap is just a part of a wider movement, a language movement.
30:51We're like, on the music side of things, but there's people,
30:54as I said, working with kids and sports teams and all that stuff.
30:58It's obviously nice to have, like growing up speaking that, growing up speaking Irish,
31:01you've never really seen Irish in like mainstream areas, like on BBC Radio 6 or Radio 1.
31:07Like, I never seen it, maybe it was the odd time, but you never see it there on the cinemas.
31:12So I think it's really cool.
31:13Like if I was 16 years old now and I seen that there was an Irish language film in the
31:18cinema,
31:18I think that's a very, just makes you feel, it's very important as a young person that you feel
31:22like your culture is valued and seen in these mainstream areas.
31:28I think that's the effect it has, you know, it has a positive effect.
31:32And let's just, I mean, to go back to where you guys came from.
31:34I mean, so like Liam, before you were in kneecap, you were, you were looking at being a youth worker.
31:39JJ, obviously you used to be a teacher.
31:41You were doing a lot as well in terms of like promoting the Irish language in terms of festivals
31:44and stuff.
31:45What do you think that what you guys were and were like pre-kneecap tells us about like
31:50the need for you to create kneecap and your kind of mission statement and how
31:54that carries with everything you do?
31:55I suppose there are three things that you mentioned all kind of aligned within that
32:00phone diagram of what, like the language movement.
32:03And we all started out, we all loved the language.
32:06We kind of, whenever we were like early twenties,
32:12we just kind of seemed to find each other.
32:15Something was happening in Belfast and everybody was just drawn towards it.
32:18And we gained this big friendship group and of people who were leaving the school at a time when
32:24lots of people who were learning Irish language in a school setting,
32:28finished school and then didn't get like social chances to speak a language, you know.
32:33So we kind of found each other just at the time when we needed that kind of social outlet
32:39and music and partying and talking on Irish was kind of how it all, what it all revolved around.
32:46So yeah, all those things kind of just lined up nicely.
32:50Yeah, I think it was obviously, which as you said with the youth work and stuff,
32:54there was that kind of need for a space, like a social space. I think any kind of movement needs
33:00social spaces. And what was happening, as he said, was people were going to school,
33:04a lot of people were leaving the school with a basic grasp of Irish and then weren't really using it
33:09again.
33:09So we kind of created that social setting of Glorna Mona and that's whenever I started volunteering
33:14and then obviously getting a job there. And it was out of that kind of ethos when he kept growing,
33:22obviously that kind of need, that kind of subculture was being represented, whether it was musically
33:27or creatively or whatever. So I think it just, once we all kind of bumped heads, it kind of just,
33:32this was the natural progression to go, I think.
33:34And I think it's like a growing collective self-esteem that NICAP came out of.
33:41NICAP was kind of started around the time of, there was that En La Jarrug, which is the Irish
33:45Language March for an Irish Language Act and the Commissioner and the rights, like the same rights
33:50they have in Wales, for example, we were looking for that there. And I think like there was this
33:56growing sense of collective self-esteem. And that's where NICAP was kind of born out of,
34:02this idea that, you know, we do deserve to have the same as everybody else. And
34:06like NICAP started, but there's so many other projects that started in Belfast. And I think
34:11in Ireland in general, like you had Colin Keown, which made it to the Oscars. Like for a long time,
34:16there's been such a like heavy weight around the language, right, and a heavy seriousness or something
34:22that it's not as valued in certain places, or it's not as worthy in certain areas of art or consumption.
34:29So I think we just came in at a time. Like we had these jobs, youth workers and teachers and
34:33working
34:34at events because we had these jobs in the Irish language and said, okay, we have these jobs and
34:38we should, we should have art and culture and these things. So I think that's, that's kind of where
34:42that seed was planted.
34:44And in terms of those seeds, I mean, have you seen, have you noticed many people back home like
34:50forming Irish language bands, becoming Irish language artists, or is it more of a kind of internal self-esteem
34:55thing that it's like, gradually, gradually, yeah, gradually there's a lot more. But again,
35:00I think that was the progression that was going anyway. I think we get too much of a pat on
35:03the
35:03back for these kind of things. You know, a lot of the hard work was done. This is the result
35:08of the hard work, what we're doing, not, not, not as a result of us. Do you know what I
35:12mean?
35:12So we, we, we are the, you know, we're standing on the, the soldiers of giants,
35:18standing on the shoulders of giants. You know, all these people who actually sacrificed before us,
35:23like families and stuff in the west of Ireland, who kept their language alive. Like those are
35:27the real sacrifices. That's the real hard work. And we're actually just reaping the benefits of that.
35:31And I think part of it was like, we're always looking towards, I think like towards England.
35:36So like validation of like music or art, but now we're kind of maybe looking more inwards.
35:41So now you seem a lot more, I think like what you see in Ireland in general, the music scene,
35:45is, is a result of that there. Like people, us depending on ourselves to create music with all these,
35:51like, these are all the bands coming out, Maddo Salad, obviously Fontaine's, The Growers,
35:56I mean, endless bands, Mary Wallabers coming up now, which I felt like wasn't there, maybe 30 years ago.
36:01Just going to The Scratch. The Scratch as well, there's the class band, Scratch. And
36:06I can't even, I can't even, Big Pig. There's endless. There's endless.
36:10It feels like every, any time we're talking to journalists, there's such a buzz around.
36:14And Ireland's cool, along with. It feels like the Irish have always been known kind of,
36:20from what I can remember, all over the world for certain, certain things like, but now it's
36:26kind of being known culturally for, for what's actually Irish, for the music, for the language,
36:31for sports, for crack. This is it. When there's a culture oppressed for so long,
36:39whenever that oppression slowly but surely starts to ease up, it's just an explosion of it,
36:43you know what I mean? But it's an explosion of art. There's been a vacuum there for a long time,
36:48and now, my friend, I think what's happening is, just very quickly, I feel like what's happening
36:53now is Irish artists are starting to make art for themselves and for their, you know, for,
36:59Not for export. Yeah, not for export and not for, not for, they're not creating art that's
37:04palatable for Americans now. Do you know what I mean? We're doing it for ourselves and I think that's
37:08why it exploded because people see the authenticity in that and people respect that.
37:12And in terms of you guys, in terms of all of the, um, all of the, like,
37:16attempts to knock you guys back, to silence you, to kind of get back on your feet and come back
37:20with,
37:21to such a strong record, how do you guys feel about the future right now? What do you want for
37:26Kneecap? What do you want for yourselves? How do you see it going?
37:29We're happy, baby, still, you know, creating music and just having the opportunity to go
37:34around the world and, like, meet with people from, you know, different Indigenous backgrounds,
37:40Aboriginal cultures, Miss Kanina, we in Australia. Um, I think that's such a cool thing happening at
37:45the moment. There's people, not just in Ireland, you know, people all around the world are kind of going
37:49towards, like, their native Indigenous language and that's something that hopefully in the future that we
37:54can kind of connect more with around the world. We're just very lucky to be doing what we're doing
37:58and try not to think too far ahead and just kind of reminding yourselves that, you know,
38:02how lucky we are and long may last. Do you have the fear that the next kind of attempt to
38:07silence
38:08he's just around the corner? I don't know, try not to think about these things. Um, if it is,
38:12it's going to be out of our hands anyway, you know what I mean? So we'll just do us as
38:17much as we can
38:18and for as long as people listen to us and as long as there's a demand there, we'll continue to
38:21create.
38:21Yeah, we're happy. We're over the moon and we're getting to work with people like that
38:26and working with Kerry Tempus and all these people. It's such a class experience and this is something
38:30that we, we started NECAP and again, maybe this was a lack of self-esteem. We thought nobody would
38:35be interested in NECAP outside of like our 10 friends, but maybe that was again, that was something
38:42was changing and people were looking for something more maybe authentic and we kind of, our own
38:47confidence grew and I think over the years our confidence, our self-esteem has grown in the NECAP
38:51and that's something that we're continuing to work on and hopefully that'll bring us to new places
38:56around the world and hopefully the next generation is able to take some more self-esteem and take it
39:01to the next level as well. Yeah, that'd be cool. That's, that's something cool. If we can, if we're an
39:06inspiration for other bands to do a similar thing in Irish and even better, that's, that'll be, that'll be a
39:12great conclusion of NECAP. In the very least, you've got some good material for NECAP, the movie 2.
39:18Am I going to start a franchise movie? I don't know, 2, 3, 4, 5. I will see, if the
39:22money's red.
39:23Like the Irishman. Who's going to play Keir Starmer? Oh. Quasimoro. Jesus Christ, there you go.
39:33Sean Osborne. Sean Osborne as Keir Starmer. He might be able to play himself if he's looking for work though.
39:39Yeah, he might be able to do a job at that stage. He might actually. I see it. If you're
39:43well-behaved, Keir.
39:44You wouldn't want to be doing Sean's makeup in a way. Jesus Christ.
39:48And I know, NECAP, thank you so much. Always a pleasure. Thanks guys. Thank you, thank you.
39:52Thank you. Bye buddy.
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