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00:00Midnight Memories. Midnight Memories. The Addison Lee reference I'll always be
00:04obsessed with that. I love it so much. The boys wrote that chorus and they said
00:10that the original lyric was I love KFC, not Midnight Memories and I think
00:14there's a recording of that somewhere. The original demo was I love KFC.
00:26Hi, I'm Nick and I'm joined by Niall Horan for the latest in Enemies in
00:30Conversations series. How's it going today? Good. It's good. It's good to be back making
00:35music. The sun is out today. It's a good day. And album four? It's coming. It's been
00:41announced. It's happened. I can't believe it's four albums. I release an album every
00:45three years. So it's been announced today. It's out June 5th. I'm very
00:51excited. I love the new music. It's definitely the next step of the
00:56evolution and it feels good to be making that type of music at this point. Feels
01:01right. It's called Dinner Party. It's called Dinner Party. What's the story behind that
01:06title? Obviously it's the title of the lead single as well. Yeah, well I met my
01:10girlfriend at a dinner party and it was kind of like one of those, it felt like I
01:14felt compelled to write it because it feels like one of those big moments in
01:18your, in your life that obviously I'm still with her. So it became, it became a
01:23bigger moment than just sitting down at a dinner table and having a few drinks. It
01:27has now led to the next years of my life and hopefully the rest of them. So yeah,
01:32I felt like a great place to start as a single too because it sets up what's to
01:37come very well. Like that's the start of the chronological story and the rest of the
01:42songs tell a little bit more, give a bit more detail. What is the overall story
01:46of the album's telling would you say? I'd say there's a bit, a couple of, a few
01:50different things and I'd say there's obviously love and like a romance side
01:54and then there's the fear of losing that person. Fear of loss in general. Loss, a bit
02:01of a sexy side in some, some places and I tend to write quite like, you know when you
02:07get, you get to a point sometimes you're like, I've run out of ideas and on the day
02:11that I've run out of ideas I'll, I'll pluck from like observational, an
02:15observational standpoint where I might have seen something somewhere, someone
02:19else's relationship unfold in front of me, an argument I seen happen or something
02:24like that and write from those points but for the most part it's love and fear of
02:28loss I would say are probably the main. And also looking back nostalgically and not
02:35being like afraid to kind of let go of, let go of my past but look back at it
02:40fondly if you know what I mean and then be excited for the future. I think there's,
02:44it's, it's, it has depth and it's also got a lot of fun in it too because that's
02:49kind of like who I am I suppose. You mentioned fear, I've had five songs from the
02:54album, one's called Better Man and it's kind of you worrying that maybe there's a
02:59better man out there for your partner, that's quite a vulnerable thing to think
03:01about. Yeah, I like, I just had the title for a long time and I was also, I also
03:06didn't want it to be very on the nose about like, I want to be a better man for
03:11you, like I didn't want to say those, that kind of word but that's basically what
03:14the song is saying, like it's in the moments where I think I potentially being a bit
03:19of an idiot and I got something wrong or, you know, I would understand if there was
03:25someone out there better for you, like I would get it because you deserve it, you
03:29know, and there might be times when I'm, I've lost the plot and I'm not being the
03:33best version of myself for you, I would, I would get it if you wanted to, you know,
03:38and I just, I feel like it's a very, it's a universal feeling, I think we've all kind
03:43of felt that way, you're like, how did I manage this, you know, how did, like how
03:49did I pull this one off, and you start having moments of small doubt and things
03:55like that, and yeah, I just, I felt like it was a, Better Man's one of my favorite
03:58songs I've ever written for that reason, like I've gone to a place that I've
04:02probably never gone to before and the lyric is quite profound, I've wanted to
04:07write that song because it's, it's so relatable, like I always try and write stuff
04:11that's personal, but also try and make it relatable because there is, there isn't
04:16anything worse than not being able to relate to, to what you're listening to and
04:20you know, I'm not saying this is a great song of all time, but our favorite songs
04:23and the biggest songs of all time have been the most relatable, whether it be
04:26Paul Simon or Adele, like it's, like it's, we can connect to it, we don't know
04:31what's going on in Adele's life or, you know, what Paul Simon was writing about, but we
04:35can, we can connect to what they're saying, you know, because they've written it, it
04:40with a universal state of mind, if you like. I think there's always that moment
04:44in a relationship where you feel as though it's going really well, but then at the
04:47back of your mind, it's like, what if I fuck it up, what if I fuck it up, and that's
04:50what.
04:50Yeah, there's a seed of doubt there always, like you're like, because I remember, like,
04:53I've always, you know, before this I was like going through my 20s and just kind of
04:57swimming along and, you know, and not really being fully into something or
05:03whatever and when you get there then, you finally get there, you're just like,
05:07right, please don't mess this up. And I wrote a song in my last album or a couple
05:12of albums ago called Dear Patience, which was me writing a letter to the feeling
05:16of patience and being like, just don't let me down here, like stick to it. So I
05:21think there was a bit of that as well, yeah. Another song that I've heard,
05:26Tastes So Good, sounds like it's got to be a single, it sounds like such a radio
05:29record. Right, there's a bit of agreement there across the board. A lot of this
05:35album was written from a jam, like there was, I think, when you listen to the
05:41album in its totality, you can hear, like, that it's definitely more of a jam than,
05:48right, well, we're going to sit in a room like this and we're going to write a song.
05:50Like, it was definitely more, we had drums set up and we had a whole band set up and
05:54we would just play and I'd have a microphone on me and I'd sing melodies and
05:58then attach a feeling to it afterwards. And Tastes So Good was, is that? You know,
06:03it's, you can tell just straight away from the initial hearing the drums
06:07before you hear anything, that it came from a, came from a real big jam and kind
06:13of reminded me of, like, being back in school and playing in bands and things
06:16like that. And the whole album kind of is fed up, the sound of the album is based
06:22off Tastes So Good really, because that's kind of on the rockier end, but everything
06:26else does sound alive, it's just not as hard as that. Yeah, and it's just a real, it feels like
06:31a good album opener,
06:32it feels like maybe potential like concert opener, like it has that kind of, I don't know,
06:39out the, out the gates kind of feeling to it. And yeah, I just love that song. It makes me,
06:44it gets
06:45people, gets people going when they hear it. What was the starting point for the album? Like, when did
06:50you think, hang on, I want to start working on album four now? And like, who did you reach out
06:54to? What
06:54was the kind of the first step? Yeah, I took, I finished the tour in October 24 and didn't do
07:02anything for a while. I did three, I took three or four months off just, I didn't do much, just
07:08stayed
07:08at home. And you're always kind of coming up with like little voice notes and writing down notes and
07:13things. But I didn't really like feel like I was ready. I'd just done an album into it straight into
07:18a
07:18tour. And that's like an 18 month thing. So taking a few, few months to do nothing is probably a
07:23good
07:23idea anyway. Um, and then I just, uh, it was probably like February or March last year where
07:32I was like, I'm ready to go on now. And I called John and Julian and Julian Bonetta and John
07:37Ryan,
07:37who I've worked with for years and years. And like, I think we worked out that we're,
07:42we've been working together for 14 years, which is nuts. It's nearly half your life, isn't it?
07:47Not far off at all. And, um, yeah, and I just wanted to, well, what had happened was they had
07:56came to a few shows on the previous tour. A lot of producers don't like coming to live music. They
08:01love producers, love just having it under speakers and being able to mix it in front of them.
08:05Because they might not like the way it sounds. Yeah, I think so. And they will say that,
08:09like, that's an open thing. Uh, but how we made the 1D records was, was, was that they were at
08:15the
08:15gigs. They were seeing what the fans were feeling, what was working, what wasn't. And I said, boys,
08:20you have to come to a few shows. So they came on tour with me for a week and came
08:23to a few different
08:24shows in the States. And I was like, just watch out for what people are reacting to. Cause I'm seeing
08:29it every night and I'm saying why, what lyric is getting them, what, what groove is getting them.
08:34Um, and we, and they had a knowledge of that before we started. And I, and Julian said,
08:40we should start this by just setting up a kit and having everything plugged in and just going at it
08:46from that angle and just seeing what comes out and then create the sound before we attach an emotion,
08:50as I said. So we literally went to Nashville in February or March last year, stayed in Julian's
08:58and just jammed for a week. Um, and actually nothing we wrote that week made, made the album.
09:04Funnily enough, I think we might've had the chorus for taste so good. And that's all we got for the
09:08week. Um, but it did, it informed us what the album was going to sound like. We didn't want it
09:15too
09:15heavily layered. It was just drums, keys, piano, um, guitar, synth, and nothing really much else.
09:21Let the vocal do the work. Um, and that, and that's effectively how we started and kind of just
09:27kept going with that concept instead of just getting bogged down in a studio, trying to create
09:32beats and overthink anything. We didn't want to overthink. And hopefully when I listen to the album,
09:39now I hear that I hear the lack of overthinking. As you mentioned, you've worked with John and Julian
09:44for so long and it works. You've made three previous albums and the one D stuff, but is it important
09:49to
09:50you on a personal level to have that longstanding relationship with people in the industry?
09:53Because it is a fickle industry. Yeah, no, it's a very fickle industry. I, I, I'm of the idea.
09:58If it's not broke, don't fix it. There's no point, like just going out there hunting and searching.
10:02And, and a couple of albums ago I did like, I went around and I had a look at like,
10:08this writer just
10:09wrote this song and you should work with them. You know, I think you guys have worked together.
10:12I was like, it didn't really work for me. I didn't like the idea of going into the studio and
10:16like
10:16having six hours to write the next big hit. Like I couldn't, that didn't, I like a project,
10:21if you know what I mean. And so do the boys, like John and Julian have had loads of big
10:25hits recently,
10:26but on big projects, it wasn't, there weren't just flash in the pan sessions that they did.
10:32Like the stuff that they did with Sabrina Carpenter, all of that stuff, that whole album,
10:37Short and Sweet, they did all the Teddy Swim stuff. And there are big projects that, on artists that
10:43they're good friends with and close with. And I've, I feel the same way about, about that. Like
10:49he, you can't expect to write the next big, biggest song every day. Like in just the day you walk
10:54in.
10:55So I like the idea of going to Nashville for a week and nothing happening, but at least we got
10:59the
10:59sound of the record from it. Um, and also I'm just really close with them. Like I grew up, like
11:04I grew up with those boys, like they're, it's beyond just producer artists relationship. Like we spend
11:11so much time together outside of the studio, at each other's houses, you know, I feel like a part
11:17of the Bonetta family. We were taken in under their wing when we first came out to LA in 2012.
11:24Um, so you just, it's, it's beyond that. And I can, and also like, they can push me to places,
11:29they can push me to write Better Man, whereas I can't push myself to write Better Man. And like,
11:34they can test what, you know, maybe try and experiment in this angle. And even when I'm
11:40feeling hesitant, I'll go with it because I trust them. There's a lot of that kind of,
11:46you know, and we all have high standards and it just works, you know, they can't,
11:52you can't really like, there's loads of variables and fundamentals that are, yeah,
11:57just a very important to me and are also important to them.
12:00One of the main musical reference points, I mean, you mentioned you recorded in Nashville,
12:04there is a kind of country vibe to some of the songs.
12:07Yeah, there is. Yeah, I kind of, yeah, there is, I suppose. Um, I think melodically, I just,
12:13whatever comes out of my mouth, I guess being Irish is a thing too. Like what I grew up listening
12:19to,
12:20like the first thing I ever listened to was the Eagles. So that comes into play. I think you just
12:25subconsciously pick up a style, um, uh, of like melody. And when I go to sing, I probably sing with
12:33a bit of a twang and it naturally sounds folky or country. I don't know. I can't really put my
12:38finger on that. It's, it just happens. Um, I, I just love that music. I love that, that style of
12:44music.
12:44And I also love pop music. So I like the fact that they can be in the same, the same,
12:50um, world.
12:51Yeah. What song on the album do you think will surprise people the most?
12:55I think Tastes So Good is, it is quite like, it's aggressive for me, um, in a great way.
13:01I would say like inspiration wise, like, uh, like listen to a lot of Radiohead making this,
13:08uh, just from like Tom York's melodic standpoint of like not having, not having many words in a,
13:14in a, in a phrase. Like I have, I don't know if you heard a song called Little More Time.
13:20Like I was trying to just kind of drag the phrase out with not a lot of words and not
13:25trying to like,
13:26I, I would usually try and fit as many words in a sentence.
13:28It's like counterintuitive in a way because you want to express yourself as much as possible
13:31so you think more is work more.
13:32Yeah. I just think like it allows you to be a bit, get the thought in, in a more condensed
13:38way
13:39and people, and the listener still understands what you're trying to get at. You don't have to like
13:43over explain yourself sometimes. Some, some songs require it, but sometimes, some songs don't.
13:48But I just like the, the drolliness of Tom York's kind of, maybe droll is the wrong word because
13:54that sounds, but like you just kind of elongate and everything in it and it sounds darker and
14:00deeper. And obviously Tom York's an absolute genius. Um, I think there's a lot of 90s stuff
14:04that, that comes into this album. But I think if I was to say, if I was to stick a
14:09year on it,
14:09I would, yeah, if I was to stick a decade on it, I would say, yeah, 90s is probably the
14:13one that's
14:13probably the most prevalent, um, across the board. Yeah. I would say.
14:18When did you get into nineties music? Cause I guess you weren't alive for very much.
14:22Well, I wasn't around for the seventies. That's my favorite.
14:26I just think I have that, like, uh, like digging into new stuff and like, um,
14:34growing up on the stuff that I grew up on. That's all I know is trying to catch up on
14:38the next decade.
14:38You know what I mean? Um, and yeah, I think the nineties were so good, especially like,
14:44especially in this country. Like it was, it was nuts. Yeah. Amazing. Blur Oasis and yeah.
14:50And Ireland of Cranberries amazing.
14:51The Cranberries. Like, yeah. Cranberries is another one that, that I had,
14:55I think about a lot. Um, Dolores was a genius and that band is, um,
15:02yeah, kind of that, it was kind of that radio heady Cranberry kind of feel in places with a pop
15:08twist. I would say, how do you see this album in relation to the other three? Obviously they're
15:12all a piece of you, but do you kind of analyze how they kind of relate to each other? Do
15:16they feel
15:17like cousins? It is funny. It's, it's, it's, it's only when I like, I was in rehearsals last week
15:22and we were putting together what the potential next set list could be. And you see the, you see,
15:29like I had, I had a board up in the room with my, like the songs on magnets and I
15:33was moving them
15:33around and it was funny seeing how the discography has changed and you know, how it's, um, evolved.
15:43And, uh, it's really interesting to see them all next to each other. And I think it just, it's,
15:48it's just a natural evolution. There are flavors. There's always just natural flavors that are in
15:55all the albums. And then like Heartbreak Weather, the second album, that, that album, I just said,
16:01I'm going into write songs and I'm going to produce this, whatever the song feels like is
16:05going to get produced like that. Um, whereas this time I went in with more of a, like a concept
16:10and,
16:10and, and an idea of what the sound was going to be before we'd even got in the room. Um,
16:17I don't think it's a trillion miles off my last album. I just feel it feels way more live.
16:24That's how I would describe it. I think pop music for a long time was very compressed on the radio
16:29and
16:29like not very, you know, drum machine. It was very drum machine-y sound and not very,
16:35didn't feel very live. And I feel like in the last, since kind of COVID, I would say that everyone
16:40is
16:41kind of leaning towards that, which I've been waiting for, to be honest, because all of my
16:45influences that we've just mentioned are all very live sounding in the recording. So I wanted to get
16:50a little bit more like that. Even in my little ballads, I tried, like I'm a big fan of Damien
16:54Rice and
16:55all of Damien Rice's recordings sound like they were just done in his living room.
17:00And if someone told me that the whole album was done on one mic, I'd, I'd believe that.
17:04And I wanted to try and get that across in, in how we recorded things. Um, yeah, they're, they're,
17:12they're cousins. They're related. They're all for me.
17:16It's interesting. You mentioned like Tom York's drawly vocal, because I think that's something
17:19that's coming in pop, even like big pop records now, like the vocals are a bit more relaxed than maybe
17:23they were 10 years ago. Yeah. People are singing in a more adlib-y kind of way,
17:27even on big records. I mean, you mentioned Sabrina Carpenter. I think she's someone who does like
17:30that, even on these like huge pop songs. Yeah. Her vocals are very relaxed.
17:34Yeah. It allows you to be more yourself, like whatever comes out your mouth instead of what
17:39the producer thinks should come out of your mouth. Like you just, um, you know, I remember the days of
17:44everything being really chopped and, you know, comped to within an inch of its life. Whereas like,
17:49if I'm recording a song now, I try and do three takes max and I maybe hone in on a
17:53couple of notes
17:54that I hit very badly or, but I try and sing the whole song through when I'm recording because
17:59it's the only way to get feel. Like if, if you're just singing a few lines and then stopping and
18:04going back and it just never gets into a, a good groove. And you can, I feel like you can
18:10hear that
18:10in this, in, when you record, like in Better Man, I think I've recorded that twice because it is one
18:16of those songs that needs the vulnerability. It nearly needs to sound like, I don't know it completely
18:20in a way. Like, do you know what I mean? You have to just, it's whatever comes out of you
18:25in that
18:25moment for a song like that makes for a better vocal, even if it is imperfect. And yeah. Yeah.
18:32So I do feel like just music in general is gone that way. You mentioned putting together a setlist
18:37for the tour that must get harder every album because you've got more material. Did a bit of research
18:41on setlist.fm the one, the one D songs you've played the most often, a fool's gold, drag me down
18:47and night changes. I was wondering, how do you decide which one D songs, if any, are going to make
18:51it into the set? Cause you could do none. Yeah. I could do none. Yeah. Um, but I feel like
18:56I'd be doing
18:56the band a bit with the service. Um, cause there's some, there's great songs. So, you know,
19:01you want to play great songs and I was in that band. So it's helpful. Um, yeah, I play drag
19:08me down.
19:09I've played fool's gold and I changed it. I played story of my life. Stockholm syndrome.
19:14Yeah. I was putting that in and out in the last tour. Um, yeah, I don't really know. I'll just
19:20play my favorites, I suppose. And I try and stay away from if the lads are doing it, like, okay,
19:25you know, like if Harry's touring and he's playing what makes you beautiful every night,
19:30like it'd be a bit stupid for me to do the same song at the same time where Louis did
19:34drag me down
19:35on his first tour. So I kept away from that. And then I did it the next time. Um, yeah,
19:39it's just more of my favorite, my favorite songs. I don't know what I'll do next. If I do one
19:43or not,
19:43but, um, there's some good tunes there. So we'll see. I don't really, yeah,
19:48just play my favorites. And also if, if I've already seen like a placeholder in the set,
19:56what kind of vibe matches what's next? What's either side of it? I'll try and think about it that way
20:01too.
20:02It's a jigsaw puzzle, I guess. It is. You have to stick it together. Yeah.
20:05A related question. Like in the TikTok era, it feels like any song can have a revival.
20:11If any 1D song was going to pop off again, maybe one that you feel didn't get enough of a
20:15chance,
20:15or it did. Yeah. Which one would you like it to be?
20:19I think Steal My Girl is, I've just got to say it, it's under a hot take, hot take. Imagine
20:25if I was
20:26like, everyone asked me what's your hot take. And I was like, well, I think Steal My Girl should
20:28have been bigger. But no, I think Steal My Girl, yeah. I think it was, it was robbed of its
20:35day in
20:36the sun. Yeah, Steal My Girl, I think Fool's Gold is under it, if I'm being honest. But yeah,
20:46Steal My Girl, I would say is probably the one that, the video with Danny DeVito and the whole thing.
20:52I would say that, yeah. Midnight Memories. Midnight Memories. The Addison Lee reference,
20:57I'll always be obsessed with that. I love it so much. The boys wrote that chorus and they said
21:03that the original lyric was, I love KFC, not Midnight Memories. And I think there's a recording
21:09of that somewhere. The original demo was, I love KFC. But the Addison Lee reference is good because we
21:15spent our whole life in Addison Lee at the time. Yeah, well, you would have been. This is slightly
21:20surprising to me, but in September, I think it would be 10 years since you released your first
21:24solo single. Holy moly. So you've probably been doing solo for 10 years because you would have
21:30been recording before then. How would you say you've changed as an artist in that time?
21:34I don't know. I've probably leaned in. I've written a lot more songs, so I feel like I've gotten better
21:39at that. And this is one of those things you just have to practice. I feel like I'm a better
21:44writer
21:44over the last 10 years and even in the last couple of years. I feel like I've probably experimented
21:53a little bit more than I usually would. And the sound has evolved. And I've probably gained some
22:00confidence off it. I found like when I came off the back of the 24 tour, like there was no
22:04way when
22:05I was putting those tickets on sale that I think I was going to be playing the sold out arenas
22:08every night
22:08for, to 1.5 million people. It's just, if you think that, if you think that's normal,
22:16you've lost touch. So I was never, I was shocked by that and felt like we put on a good
22:24show and I
22:24tried to, to give the crowd of value for money every night. And just the, the feeling that I got
22:30from the
22:30crowd, it just made me grow in confidence. And I kind of went into the studio this time a little
22:35bit
22:35looser. I feel like previously I used to just go in and try and chase that, whatever the last one
22:42was. I remember on album two, I was like, right, here we go. I'm going to have to write another
22:46Slow Hands now. And it's all horrible if you don't. But I think creating a discography and seeing the
22:53fans turn out for me like they did, gives you, gives you great confidence. The fans is really the
23:00reason why I've, why I've gotten that confidence. You need to get to album number four. There's no,
23:04there would have been no guarantee 10 years ago. Correct. Honestly, like I, there could have been
23:08no guarantee I got past single one. Like I wrote this town. I came up with the idea for this
23:13town
23:13on a beach with a guitar on my back in Southeast Asia when I was traveling around there. And no
23:19way
23:19that I think that when I just tweeted the link to that song that night, that it was going to
23:24have the
23:25legs it has and be sung back to me 10 years later. It's yeah, there's, there's no guarantee for any
23:31of it. So, and I, and also, I just think like becoming more grateful as I've gotten older for
23:37them exact reasons is, uh, you know, is a pretty cool thing. Like I, I remember like when, when I
23:43was
23:43young, you'd just, you'd just do it because it was just happening around you, you know? And I think,
23:49feel like the older I've gotten, the more I'm like, Christ, these people are turning up 15 years
23:54later. And they're like, it's mind blown to me every time now. Um, and I, it's really at 24 was
24:01a big year for me. Like just thinking back in hindsight, like it was, it made me realize a lot
24:06of stuff and yeah, very grateful for it all. It must be humbling to know people have been turning
24:11out for 15 years. It's unbelievable. Like, I think when you see, when we were doing the stadiums back
24:16in the day, you'd stand and you'd just see a sea of people. And I think in the arenas now
24:20when I'm
24:20there on stage, like you're like every single person in this room has a story as to how they
24:25became a fan, how they listened to your music, how they paid for petrol to get here tonight. Like
24:32flights, this mother here is bringing three kids and this student here, you know, buys a meal deal
24:39just to buy your, your ticket for your show. Like there are people are putting aside money to buy a
24:44ticket. Like it's fucking mind blown when you, when you break it down for what it is, it's, um,
24:50it's pretty cool. So hopefully plenty more where that came from. Be lovely, please. Thank you.
24:57Not to keep aging you, but the debut album will turn 10 years next year.
25:00Is there a potential for a kind of 10th anniversary reissue with bonus tracks? Is there much in the vault?
25:05Oh, cause fans love that kind of thing now.
25:07Yeah, actually. Now that you say that, like, I remember a deluxe used to be a place where I would
25:12hide songs
25:13that like, that I didn't particularly like, but we needed a deluxe. And now I get excited for the
25:18looks like a couple of the couple of the songs that'll be on my deluxe or this time are my
25:22favorites.
25:23And I just needed to make a 12th track album. Like I didn't really know how to like put that
25:27jigsaw
25:28puzzle together. So the deluxe is like a, has now become a much bigger thing for me. Um, maybe I
25:35could,
25:35yeah, maybe I could, maybe I could have a little dig, see what I could find in the old Dropbox.
25:40Cause there's, there's probably a couple of good ones in there that, yeah, that I would love.
25:45Maybe. I haven't even thought about that. Maybe you could, maybe you've just come up with the idea.
25:49Well, I feel like Taylor Swift's changed the whole game with that kind of thing,
25:51cause she's gone in and taken these tracks from the vault and sometimes she's like re-recording
25:55with an artist now and she's just tracks that would have been seen as sort of scraps and now
26:00tracks in the remote, which is kind of amazing.
26:02We're currently in the universal music building. So we might have to go upstairs and have a board meeting.
26:05Now me and you, um, that's actually a really good idea.
26:08No, the Taylor thing was great. I know it was forced upon her to do so.
26:11Um, and she did the right thing obviously. And, uh, yeah, you're right. That was re,
26:17reissuing some of those. Great. That's a good shout, by the way. That's a right revelation.
26:24It happened here.
26:25You did a collaboration with Miles Smith back in February. Yeah.
26:29Um, what made him someone you wanted to work with and who else is on the kind of wish list
26:33if you're going to do another club? Uh, I miles, um, watching him from afar the last couple of
26:37years has been really cool because he's in a bit of a lane there on his own. And I, that's
26:42what I love.
26:43I love people who are like in a world of different types of music and what's doing well and what's,
26:48what's not doing well. Like he was like very much in his own thing and having big songs with it.
26:52And that's what I loved about it. I love seeing that. Um,
26:55and I just, yeah, I just thought he carried himself well and he was a funny guy. And,
26:59and then he, we became, we started messaging. We have a couple of mutual mates and they put us in
27:05touch. And then he was like writing at the time and he sent me the chorus to this song and
27:10he's like,
27:11give it a listen. And it's also a big fear. You send someone a song, you're like, they could be
27:15like,
27:16Oh, I don't know how to get out of this. So I can understand it from his point of view
27:20too.
27:20And, uh, he sent me this song and I was like, this chorus is banging. And we went into the
27:26studio.
27:26It was the first time we'd actually met in real life was in this studio. And, um,
27:31funny enough, he was going to a football match that night. And I was thinking to myself,
27:34we got there at like two o'clock, he was leaving at six. And I was like,
27:36what if we actually didn't write this song? But like when, when we would,
27:40cause I was going away and I was like, well, this was our only chance to write this.
27:43And it worked out that we got on very well. We think very similarly when we're sitting down to write.
27:48So we did, we actually wrote it really quick, recorded it. Um, and then we were like,
27:53we need to release this as like a, as a single. Um, and I just love the song. I love
27:58the message.
27:59Um, it's a real feel good song with a message. Um, and he's such a smart, smart guy. Like it's
28:06it's impressive, impressive fellow to be around and he's a good laugh as well. So winner winner.
28:10It always helps if someone's fun to work with. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Cause sometimes you,
28:15well, I, I've been very lucky, but I can imagine like, I can, some collaborations have happened
28:20and it's like, Ooh, that's a bit awkward that you kind of forced on them or whatever. But I,
28:24I've been very lucky with every collab I've done. I've either wanted to, I've either brought the song
28:28to the table. Someone's written something and brought it to me. Like I've been lucky with that.
28:33And they've been great people too, like between Julia Michaels and Mara Morris and Lizzie McAlpine and
28:40yeah, no. And, um, Miles, it's just pretty cool. How interested are you in writing for other
28:47artists? Because there is a new boy band that Simon Cowell's put together called December 10.
28:51If anyone knows how to write a kind of pop rocky boy band song. Here we go. Uh, I don't
28:57know.
28:57I haven't done a lot of it. Um, I've had a couple of tunes that I've been like,
29:02that I've pitched the half and made it. Um, but yeah, I like, if I have, I, it's more like,
29:09I spend so much time on my own stuff and I kind of like, well, if it didn't make my
29:14album,
29:15it's probably not good enough to make theirs. So I didn't like, I never really, I should probably
29:19pitch more maybe. I don't know. And cause I write so many songs that I should probably pitch them to,
29:23to record labels and send them to artists. So maybe that's something that I need to do a little bit
29:28more
29:28of. Um, yeah, I, I have been invited to a couple of like camps for different, um, things that for
29:34different record labels or whatever that I've never, uh, actually been able to make. Um, so maybe
29:40in the future, I think with how I work my schedule now, I'll probably try and find more time to
29:44do
29:44stuff like that. Cause John and Julian are always doing stuff for different record labels, like
29:48starting ideas for projects for different artists. And maybe I should just tag along sometime and see
29:53what we come up with. I guess there's a different mindset writing to a brief as opposed to writing
29:57what's absolutely personal to you. Not to say that those songs don't, aren't personal, but yeah, no, no.
30:02Like if you're, if you're writing to a brief, it could probably be a little bit more liberating
30:05cause you don't have to over, there's no overthinking. Like, you know, you know what you're doing,
30:09you know exactly how it's going to sound, you know, the beats you're singing over the types of chords.
30:13Is it R and B led? Is it poppier led? Is it, you know, like there's, it's probably a little
30:19bit more
30:19liberating cause you can just throw it at the wall and hope, you know, whereas in your own stuff,
30:26you're thinking about the emotion, you're thinking about the sound you want to show off to the world.
30:31You're thinking about your evolution. You're thinking about your lyric. You're thinking about
30:34your vote, your own vocal. You're thinking like, I can imagine there's, it's quite intense making an
30:39album. Um, you know, you're like, I'm also thinking about what angle have I not touched on yet
30:45that would complete the story or whatever. Um, there's a lot more to it than just going in and
30:51writing, but I would like to do a bit more of that. Yeah. Let's ask a couple more questions.
30:55Where's the weirdest place you've heard one of your songs?
31:00I was actually talking to someone about this yesterday. There was an Indian restaurant next
31:04to my old house in Gloucester Road. And the first time I ever went in there, this guy just,
31:09he just started playing my music and I was just like, Oh no, like what makes him think that I
31:16want
31:16this? And then, uh, I don't. And if you're a restaurant or bar owner, please just don't play
31:22my music when we walk in. Cause it's makes me want to leave, but the food was that good. I
31:26kept going
31:26back. He was actually ended up being a nice man and I went there loads of times. Uh, weirdest place.
31:31I remember being on an island in the Philippines called, uh, El Nido and hearing like a, there was
31:38a deep, like it's very small island. It's got like a shack on a beach. And I remember hearing a
31:431D song called Never Enough, a deep, deep cut. Um, I remember hearing that in the, in that little
31:50shack on the beach, really, really, really random. Um, where else have I heard? I went to get a facial
31:57one day and they had like an acoustic playlist on and this town came on. It's quite random.
32:04I'm just sitting there with the goggles on under a UV, under a LED light or a UV light.
32:09Did that make it harder for you to relax? Yeah. It was like, Oh, this is awkward thinking this
32:15person, I'm in a vulnerable state here. Did this person do this on purpose? Cause now I feel more
32:20vulnerable or was I just part of that playlist? So yeah, I've had a, when you, when you've done
32:27it for 15 years, you've heard, you've, I've probably got way more weird places than that.
32:31Yeah, I definitely do. Um, but yeah, they're the first two to come to mind.
32:35Does it happen quite often that you're out somewhere in public and one of your songs just
32:38happens to come on? Yeah, taxis. Yeah.
32:41Ubers is the big one. I was at a pub quiz a few weeks ago on a Sunday night and
32:46when I walked,
32:47as I was walking in the door, I quickly turned on my heels cause I heard my own music. I
32:52could do
32:52without that. Cause I don't want anyone to be like, Oh, you're on and you've just walked in.
32:57Uh, yeah, it's kind of embarrassing when you, when you do that. Yeah. Tracks too much attention.
33:04Last question. I'm with a slightly cheesy one, but what are you proudest of in your career so far?
33:09Wow. I'm happy with my authenticity in my music. I think, I think it's, I've stuck to my guns on
33:16what
33:17the type of music that I make. And I, yeah, I think that's probably the biggest one. And like,
33:25it's stood me in good stead long, you know, longevity wise. Listen, it's only been 15 years.
33:30Let's, let's not call it longevity yet, but you know what I mean? I've made it this far. Let's hope
33:35we can keep going. Yeah. I'm proud of the, how it slowly got a little bit bigger each time.
33:42Um, it's not easy out there. There's a lot of big artists doing big things and, um, that are streamed
33:50bigger than me and sell more records than me and do all that. And I've just stuck to my guns
33:54and held
33:55out and hopefully it keeps standing me in good stead of what it has so far. You know, I went,
33:59my first tour was little small theaters and you know, the next one was an arena tour and hopefully,
34:07you know, I can keep doing that. And that's the, the dream is, is that. And, uh, yeah,
34:12just sticking to my guns on something things, I think is probably the thing I'm most proud of in a
34:16world of,
34:17in a very fast paced world, I've kind of stuck to the way I do things. And, um, thankfully,
34:23only because of the fans, because they're, they're not as, they're not fickle. They're,
34:28they're very patient. They've waited for new music for three years and hopefully they'll turn out again.
34:35It feels as though you really can trust your gut. I mean, we talked about this time, which was such
34:38an
34:38understated choice of debut solo single and it's now got over a billion streams on Spotify. That's a
34:43decision that was absolutely correct in the longterm, not just in the moment.
34:46Yeah. It's funny. Cause like, I don't think anyone was shocked when I released this town.
34:49I don't think anyone was gone. Oh, what's he doing with that? Cause I think they respect me
34:53to be the guy with the guitar. I think that was quite a natural place for me to go. But
34:58I think at the
34:58time, I think you have to get lucky with those kinds of things too. Like when this town came out,
35:03it was a world of, if I'm not mistaken, it was quite like EDM at the time. If I could
35:08be wrong with
35:08that, but it felt like that way. And it kind of just stood out cause it was the only song
35:11in the
35:12chart at the time that was, it was literally just me and the guitar. There was nothing else on it.
35:16And same with slow hands, like slow hands, a pop record, but it's got like an eighties kind of
35:22guitar, Don Henley kind of this to it. And, um, and I'm quite groovy. And it was of a time
35:29where
35:29the music was very different. Like I remember being performing at the American music awards and I won best
35:35new artists and all the other performances were so different to what I was about to do.
35:41And I was thinking like, Oh, I'm happy with that because it's nice to stand out sometimes.
35:46Um, so yeah, I just, you do have to have a bit of luck as well as the songs being
35:50good. You have to be in the right place at the right time too. And yeah, we'll see how the
35:55next
35:56stuff goes, but I'm happy with it. Amazing. Well, yeah. Thank you so much for your time.
36:00Thank you. Thank you. Please wear that t-shirt next time.
36:02I will too.
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