- 6 weeks ago
For the latest NME In Conversation, we talked to Niall Horan about how Radiohead and
Damien Rice inspired his new album 'Dinner Party', the One Direction song he wants to pop
off on TikTok, and the weirdest place he's heard his music.
Damien Rice inspired his new album 'Dinner Party', the One Direction song he wants to pop
off on TikTok, and the weirdest place he's heard his music.
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MusicTranscript
00:00Midnight Memories. Midnight Memories. The Addison Lee reference I'll always be
00:04obsessed with that. I love it so much. The boys wrote that chorus and they said
00:10that the original lyric was I love KFC, not Midnight Memories and I think
00:14there's a recording of that somewhere. The original demo was I love KFC.
00:26Hi, I'm Nick and I'm joined by Niall Horan for the latest in Enemies in
00:30Conversations series. How's it going today? Good. It's good. It's good to be back making
00:35music. The sun is out today. It's a good day. And album four? It's coming. It's been
00:41announced. It's happened. I can't believe it's four albums. I release an album every
00:45three years. So it's been announced today. It's out June 5th. I'm very
00:51excited. I love the new music. It's definitely the next step of the
00:56evolution and it feels good to be making that type of music at this point. Feels
01:01right. It's called Dinner Party. It's called Dinner Party. What's the story behind that
01:06title? Obviously it's the title of the lead single as well. Yeah, well I met my
01:10girlfriend at a dinner party and it was kind of like one of those, it felt like I
01:14felt compelled to write it because it feels like one of those big moments in
01:18your, in your life that obviously I'm still with her. So it became, it became a
01:23bigger moment than just sitting down at a dinner table and having a few drinks. It
01:27has now led to the next years of my life and hopefully the rest of them. So yeah,
01:32I felt like a great place to start as a single too because it sets up what's to
01:37come very well. Like that's the start of the chronological story and the rest of the
01:42songs tell a little bit more, give a bit more detail. What is the overall story
01:46of the album's telling would you say? I'd say there's a bit, a couple of, a few
01:50different things and I'd say there's obviously love and like a romance side
01:54and then there's the fear of losing that person. Fear of loss in general. Loss, a bit
02:01of a sexy side in some, some places and I tend to write quite like, you know when you
02:07get, you get to a point sometimes you're like, I've run out of ideas and on the day
02:11that I've run out of ideas I'll, I'll pluck from like observational, an
02:15observational standpoint where I might have seen something somewhere, someone
02:19else's relationship unfold in front of me, an argument I seen happen or something
02:24like that and write from those points but for the most part it's love and fear of
02:28loss I would say are probably the main. And also looking back nostalgically and not
02:35being like afraid to kind of let go of, let go of my past but look back at it
02:40fondly if you know what I mean and then be excited for the future. I think there's,
02:44it's, it's, it has depth and it's also got a lot of fun in it too because that's
02:49kind of like who I am I suppose. You mentioned fear, I've had five songs from the
02:54album, one's called Better Man and it's kind of you worrying that maybe there's a
02:59better man out there for your partner, that's quite a vulnerable thing to think
03:01about. Yeah, I like, I just had the title for a long time and I was also, I also
03:06didn't want it to be very on the nose about like, I want to be a better man for
03:11you, like I didn't want to say those, that kind of word but that's basically what
03:14the song is saying, like it's in the moments where I think I potentially being a bit
03:19of an idiot and I got something wrong or, you know, I would understand if there was
03:25someone out there better for you, like I would get it because you deserve it, you
03:29know, and there might be times when I'm, I've lost the plot and I'm not being the
03:33best version of myself for you, I would, I would get it if you wanted to, you know,
03:38and I just, I feel like it's a very, it's a universal feeling, I think we've all kind
03:43of felt that way, you're like, how did I manage this, you know, how did, like how
03:49did I pull this one off, and you start having moments of small doubt and things
03:55like that, and yeah, I just, I felt like it was a, Better Man's one of my favorite
03:58songs I've ever written for that reason, like I've gone to a place that I've
04:02probably never gone to before and the lyric is quite profound, I've wanted to
04:07write that song because it's, it's so relatable, like I always try and write stuff
04:11that's personal, but also try and make it relatable because there is, there isn't
04:16anything worse than not being able to relate to, to what you're listening to and
04:20you know, I'm not saying this is a great song of all time, but our favorite songs
04:23and the biggest songs of all time have been the most relatable, whether it be
04:26Paul Simon or Adele, like it's, like it's, we can connect to it, we don't know
04:31what's going on in Adele's life or, you know, what Paul Simon was writing about, but we
04:35can, we can connect to what they're saying, you know, because they've written it, it
04:40with a universal state of mind, if you like. I think there's always that moment
04:44in a relationship where you feel as though it's going really well, but then at the
04:47back of your mind, it's like, what if I fuck it up, what if I fuck it up, and that's
04:50what.
04:50Yeah, there's a seed of doubt there always, like you're like, because I remember, like,
04:53I've always, you know, before this I was like going through my 20s and just kind of
04:57swimming along and, you know, and not really being fully into something or
05:03whatever and when you get there then, you finally get there, you're just like,
05:07right, please don't mess this up. And I wrote a song in my last album or a couple
05:12of albums ago called Dear Patience, which was me writing a letter to the feeling
05:16of patience and being like, just don't let me down here, like stick to it. So I
05:21think there was a bit of that as well, yeah. Another song that I've heard,
05:26Tastes So Good, sounds like it's got to be a single, it sounds like such a radio
05:29record. Right, there's a bit of agreement there across the board. A lot of this
05:35album was written from a jam, like there was, I think, when you listen to the
05:41album in its totality, you can hear, like, that it's definitely more of a jam than,
05:48right, well, we're going to sit in a room like this and we're going to write a song.
05:50Like, it was definitely more, we had drums set up and we had a whole band set up and
05:54we would just play and I'd have a microphone on me and I'd sing melodies and
05:58then attach a feeling to it afterwards. And Tastes So Good was, is that? You know,
06:03it's, you can tell just straight away from the initial hearing the drums
06:07before you hear anything, that it came from a, came from a real big jam and kind
06:13of reminded me of, like, being back in school and playing in bands and things
06:16like that. And the whole album kind of is fed up, the sound of the album is based
06:22off Tastes So Good really, because that's kind of on the rockier end, but everything
06:26else does sound alive, it's just not as hard as that. Yeah, and it's just a real, it feels like
06:31a good album opener,
06:32it feels like maybe potential like concert opener, like it has that kind of, I don't know,
06:39out the, out the gates kind of feeling to it. And yeah, I just love that song. It makes me,
06:44it gets
06:45people, gets people going when they hear it. What was the starting point for the album? Like, when did
06:50you think, hang on, I want to start working on album four now? And like, who did you reach out
06:54to? What
06:54was the kind of the first step? Yeah, I took, I finished the tour in October 24 and didn't do
07:02anything for a while. I did three, I took three or four months off just, I didn't do much, just
07:08stayed
07:08at home. And you're always kind of coming up with like little voice notes and writing down notes and
07:13things. But I didn't really like feel like I was ready. I'd just done an album into it straight into
07:18a
07:18tour. And that's like an 18 month thing. So taking a few, few months to do nothing is probably a
07:23good
07:23idea anyway. Um, and then I just, uh, it was probably like February or March last year where
07:32I was like, I'm ready to go on now. And I called John and Julian and Julian Bonetta and John
07:37Ryan,
07:37who I've worked with for years and years. And like, I think we worked out that we're,
07:42we've been working together for 14 years, which is nuts. It's nearly half your life, isn't it?
07:47Not far off at all. And, um, yeah, and I just wanted to, well, what had happened was they had
07:56came to a few shows on the previous tour. A lot of producers don't like coming to live music. They
08:01love producers, love just having it under speakers and being able to mix it in front of them.
08:05Because they might not like the way it sounds. Yeah, I think so. And they will say that,
08:09like, that's an open thing. Uh, but how we made the 1D records was, was, was that they were at
08:15the
08:15gigs. They were seeing what the fans were feeling, what was working, what wasn't. And I said, boys,
08:20you have to come to a few shows. So they came on tour with me for a week and came
08:23to a few different
08:24shows in the States. And I was like, just watch out for what people are reacting to. Cause I'm seeing
08:29it every night and I'm saying why, what lyric is getting them, what, what groove is getting them.
08:34Um, and we, and they had a knowledge of that before we started. And I, and Julian said,
08:40we should start this by just setting up a kit and having everything plugged in and just going at it
08:46from that angle and just seeing what comes out and then create the sound before we attach an emotion,
08:50as I said. So we literally went to Nashville in February or March last year, stayed in Julian's
08:58and just jammed for a week. Um, and actually nothing we wrote that week made, made the album.
09:04Funnily enough, I think we might've had the chorus for taste so good. And that's all we got for the
09:08week. Um, but it did, it informed us what the album was going to sound like. We didn't want it
09:15too
09:15heavily layered. It was just drums, keys, piano, um, guitar, synth, and nothing really much else.
09:21Let the vocal do the work. Um, and that, and that's effectively how we started and kind of just
09:27kept going with that concept instead of just getting bogged down in a studio, trying to create
09:32beats and overthink anything. We didn't want to overthink. And hopefully when I listen to the album,
09:39now I hear that I hear the lack of overthinking. As you mentioned, you've worked with John and Julian
09:44for so long and it works. You've made three previous albums and the one D stuff, but is it important
09:49to
09:50you on a personal level to have that longstanding relationship with people in the industry?
09:53Because it is a fickle industry. Yeah, no, it's a very fickle industry. I, I, I'm of the idea.
09:58If it's not broke, don't fix it. There's no point, like just going out there hunting and searching.
10:02And, and a couple of albums ago I did like, I went around and I had a look at like,
10:08this writer just
10:09wrote this song and you should work with them. You know, I think you guys have worked together.
10:12I was like, it didn't really work for me. I didn't like the idea of going into the studio and
10:16like
10:16having six hours to write the next big hit. Like I couldn't, that didn't, I like a project,
10:21if you know what I mean. And so do the boys, like John and Julian have had loads of big
10:25hits recently,
10:26but on big projects, it wasn't, there weren't just flash in the pan sessions that they did.
10:32Like the stuff that they did with Sabrina Carpenter, all of that stuff, that whole album,
10:37Short and Sweet, they did all the Teddy Swim stuff. And there are big projects that, on artists that
10:43they're good friends with and close with. And I've, I feel the same way about, about that. Like
10:49he, you can't expect to write the next big, biggest song every day. Like in just the day you walk
10:54in.
10:55So I like the idea of going to Nashville for a week and nothing happening, but at least we got
10:59the
10:59sound of the record from it. Um, and also I'm just really close with them. Like I grew up, like
11:04I grew up with those boys, like they're, it's beyond just producer artists relationship. Like we spend
11:11so much time together outside of the studio, at each other's houses, you know, I feel like a part
11:17of the Bonetta family. We were taken in under their wing when we first came out to LA in 2012.
11:24Um, so you just, it's, it's beyond that. And I can, and also like, they can push me to places,
11:29they can push me to write Better Man, whereas I can't push myself to write Better Man. And like,
11:34they can test what, you know, maybe try and experiment in this angle. And even when I'm
11:40feeling hesitant, I'll go with it because I trust them. There's a lot of that kind of,
11:46you know, and we all have high standards and it just works, you know, they can't,
11:52you can't really like, there's loads of variables and fundamentals that are, yeah,
11:57just a very important to me and are also important to them.
12:00One of the main musical reference points, I mean, you mentioned you recorded in Nashville,
12:04there is a kind of country vibe to some of the songs.
12:07Yeah, there is. Yeah, I kind of, yeah, there is, I suppose. Um, I think melodically, I just,
12:13whatever comes out of my mouth, I guess being Irish is a thing too. Like what I grew up listening
12:19to,
12:20like the first thing I ever listened to was the Eagles. So that comes into play. I think you just
12:25subconsciously pick up a style, um, uh, of like melody. And when I go to sing, I probably sing with
12:33a bit of a twang and it naturally sounds folky or country. I don't know. I can't really put my
12:38finger on that. It's, it just happens. Um, I, I just love that music. I love that, that style of
12:44music.
12:44And I also love pop music. So I like the fact that they can be in the same, the same,
12:50um, world.
12:51Yeah. What song on the album do you think will surprise people the most?
12:55I think Tastes So Good is, it is quite like, it's aggressive for me, um, in a great way.
13:01I would say like inspiration wise, like, uh, like listen to a lot of Radiohead making this,
13:08uh, just from like Tom York's melodic standpoint of like not having, not having many words in a,
13:14in a, in a phrase. Like I have, I don't know if you heard a song called Little More Time.
13:20Like I was trying to just kind of drag the phrase out with not a lot of words and not
13:25trying to like,
13:26I, I would usually try and fit as many words in a sentence.
13:28It's like counterintuitive in a way because you want to express yourself as much as possible
13:31so you think more is work more.
13:32Yeah. I just think like it allows you to be a bit, get the thought in, in a more condensed
13:38way
13:39and people, and the listener still understands what you're trying to get at. You don't have to like
13:43over explain yourself sometimes. Some, some songs require it, but sometimes, some songs don't.
13:48But I just like the, the drolliness of Tom York's kind of, maybe droll is the wrong word because
13:54that sounds, but like you just kind of elongate and everything in it and it sounds darker and
14:00deeper. And obviously Tom York's an absolute genius. Um, I think there's a lot of 90s stuff
14:04that, that comes into this album. But I think if I was to say, if I was to stick a
14:09year on it,
14:09I would, yeah, if I was to stick a decade on it, I would say, yeah, 90s is probably the
14:13one that's
14:13probably the most prevalent, um, across the board. Yeah. I would say.
14:18When did you get into nineties music? Cause I guess you weren't alive for very much.
14:22Well, I wasn't around for the seventies. That's my favorite.
14:26I just think I have that, like, uh, like digging into new stuff and like, um,
14:34growing up on the stuff that I grew up on. That's all I know is trying to catch up on
14:38the next decade.
14:38You know what I mean? Um, and yeah, I think the nineties were so good, especially like,
14:44especially in this country. Like it was, it was nuts. Yeah. Amazing. Blur Oasis and yeah.
14:50And Ireland of Cranberries amazing.
14:51The Cranberries. Like, yeah. Cranberries is another one that, that I had,
14:55I think about a lot. Um, Dolores was a genius and that band is, um,
15:02yeah, kind of that, it was kind of that radio heady Cranberry kind of feel in places with a pop
15:08twist. I would say, how do you see this album in relation to the other three? Obviously they're
15:12all a piece of you, but do you kind of analyze how they kind of relate to each other? Do
15:16they feel
15:17like cousins? It is funny. It's, it's, it's, it's only when I like, I was in rehearsals last week
15:22and we were putting together what the potential next set list could be. And you see the, you see,
15:29like I had, I had a board up in the room with my, like the songs on magnets and I
15:33was moving them
15:33around and it was funny seeing how the discography has changed and you know, how it's, um, evolved.
15:43And, uh, it's really interesting to see them all next to each other. And I think it just, it's,
15:48it's just a natural evolution. There are flavors. There's always just natural flavors that are in
15:55all the albums. And then like Heartbreak Weather, the second album, that, that album, I just said,
16:01I'm going into write songs and I'm going to produce this, whatever the song feels like is
16:05going to get produced like that. Um, whereas this time I went in with more of a, like a concept
16:10and,
16:10and, and an idea of what the sound was going to be before we'd even got in the room. Um,
16:17I don't think it's a trillion miles off my last album. I just feel it feels way more live.
16:24That's how I would describe it. I think pop music for a long time was very compressed on the radio
16:29and
16:29like not very, you know, drum machine. It was very drum machine-y sound and not very,
16:35didn't feel very live. And I feel like in the last, since kind of COVID, I would say that everyone
16:40is
16:41kind of leaning towards that, which I've been waiting for, to be honest, because all of my
16:45influences that we've just mentioned are all very live sounding in the recording. So I wanted to get
16:50a little bit more like that. Even in my little ballads, I tried, like I'm a big fan of Damien
16:54Rice and
16:55all of Damien Rice's recordings sound like they were just done in his living room.
17:00And if someone told me that the whole album was done on one mic, I'd, I'd believe that.
17:04And I wanted to try and get that across in, in how we recorded things. Um, yeah, they're, they're,
17:12they're cousins. They're related. They're all for me.
17:16It's interesting. You mentioned like Tom York's drawly vocal, because I think that's something
17:19that's coming in pop, even like big pop records now, like the vocals are a bit more relaxed than maybe
17:23they were 10 years ago. Yeah. People are singing in a more adlib-y kind of way,
17:27even on big records. I mean, you mentioned Sabrina Carpenter. I think she's someone who does like
17:30that, even on these like huge pop songs. Yeah. Her vocals are very relaxed.
17:34Yeah. It allows you to be more yourself, like whatever comes out your mouth instead of what
17:39the producer thinks should come out of your mouth. Like you just, um, you know, I remember the days of
17:44everything being really chopped and, you know, comped to within an inch of its life. Whereas like,
17:49if I'm recording a song now, I try and do three takes max and I maybe hone in on a
17:53couple of notes
17:54that I hit very badly or, but I try and sing the whole song through when I'm recording because
17:59it's the only way to get feel. Like if, if you're just singing a few lines and then stopping and
18:04going back and it just never gets into a, a good groove. And you can, I feel like you can
18:10hear that
18:10in this, in, when you record, like in Better Man, I think I've recorded that twice because it is one
18:16of those songs that needs the vulnerability. It nearly needs to sound like, I don't know it completely
18:20in a way. Like, do you know what I mean? You have to just, it's whatever comes out of you
18:25in that
18:25moment for a song like that makes for a better vocal, even if it is imperfect. And yeah. Yeah.
18:32So I do feel like just music in general is gone that way. You mentioned putting together a setlist
18:37for the tour that must get harder every album because you've got more material. Did a bit of research
18:41on setlist.fm the one, the one D songs you've played the most often, a fool's gold, drag me down
18:47and night changes. I was wondering, how do you decide which one D songs, if any, are going to make
18:51it into the set? Cause you could do none. Yeah. I could do none. Yeah. Um, but I feel like
18:56I'd be doing
18:56the band a bit with the service. Um, cause there's some, there's great songs. So, you know,
19:01you want to play great songs and I was in that band. So it's helpful. Um, yeah, I play drag
19:08me down.
19:09I've played fool's gold and I changed it. I played story of my life. Stockholm syndrome.
19:14Yeah. I was putting that in and out in the last tour. Um, yeah, I don't really know. I'll just
19:20play my favorites, I suppose. And I try and stay away from if the lads are doing it, like, okay,
19:25you know, like if Harry's touring and he's playing what makes you beautiful every night,
19:30like it'd be a bit stupid for me to do the same song at the same time where Louis did
19:34drag me down
19:35on his first tour. So I kept away from that. And then I did it the next time. Um, yeah,
19:39it's just more of my favorite, my favorite songs. I don't know what I'll do next. If I do one
19:43or not,
19:43but, um, there's some good tunes there. So we'll see. I don't really, yeah,
19:48just play my favorites. And also if, if I've already seen like a placeholder in the set,
19:56what kind of vibe matches what's next? What's either side of it? I'll try and think about it that way
20:01too.
20:02It's a jigsaw puzzle, I guess. It is. You have to stick it together. Yeah.
20:05A related question. Like in the TikTok era, it feels like any song can have a revival.
20:11If any 1D song was going to pop off again, maybe one that you feel didn't get enough of a
20:15chance,
20:15or it did. Yeah. Which one would you like it to be?
20:19I think Steal My Girl is, I've just got to say it, it's under a hot take, hot take. Imagine
20:25if I was
20:26like, everyone asked me what's your hot take. And I was like, well, I think Steal My Girl should
20:28have been bigger. But no, I think Steal My Girl, yeah. I think it was, it was robbed of its
20:35day in
20:36the sun. Yeah, Steal My Girl, I think Fool's Gold is under it, if I'm being honest. But yeah,
20:46Steal My Girl, I would say is probably the one that, the video with Danny DeVito and the whole thing.
20:52I would say that, yeah. Midnight Memories. Midnight Memories. The Addison Lee reference,
20:57I'll always be obsessed with that. I love it so much. The boys wrote that chorus and they said
21:03that the original lyric was, I love KFC, not Midnight Memories. And I think there's a recording
21:09of that somewhere. The original demo was, I love KFC. But the Addison Lee reference is good because we
21:15spent our whole life in Addison Lee at the time. Yeah, well, you would have been. This is slightly
21:20surprising to me, but in September, I think it would be 10 years since you released your first
21:24solo single. Holy moly. So you've probably been doing solo for 10 years because you would have
21:30been recording before then. How would you say you've changed as an artist in that time?
21:34I don't know. I've probably leaned in. I've written a lot more songs, so I feel like I've gotten better
21:39at that. And this is one of those things you just have to practice. I feel like I'm a better
21:44writer
21:44over the last 10 years and even in the last couple of years. I feel like I've probably experimented
21:53a little bit more than I usually would. And the sound has evolved. And I've probably gained some
22:00confidence off it. I found like when I came off the back of the 24 tour, like there was no
22:04way when
22:05I was putting those tickets on sale that I think I was going to be playing the sold out arenas
22:08every night
22:08for, to 1.5 million people. It's just, if you think that, if you think that's normal,
22:16you've lost touch. So I was never, I was shocked by that and felt like we put on a good
22:24show and I
22:24tried to, to give the crowd of value for money every night. And just the, the feeling that I got
22:30from the
22:30crowd, it just made me grow in confidence. And I kind of went into the studio this time a little
22:35bit
22:35looser. I feel like previously I used to just go in and try and chase that, whatever the last one
22:42was. I remember on album two, I was like, right, here we go. I'm going to have to write another
22:46Slow Hands now. And it's all horrible if you don't. But I think creating a discography and seeing the
22:53fans turn out for me like they did, gives you, gives you great confidence. The fans is really the
23:00reason why I've, why I've gotten that confidence. You need to get to album number four. There's no,
23:04there would have been no guarantee 10 years ago. Correct. Honestly, like I, there could have been
23:08no guarantee I got past single one. Like I wrote this town. I came up with the idea for this
23:13town
23:13on a beach with a guitar on my back in Southeast Asia when I was traveling around there. And no
23:19way
23:19that I think that when I just tweeted the link to that song that night, that it was going to
23:24have the
23:25legs it has and be sung back to me 10 years later. It's yeah, there's, there's no guarantee for any
23:31of it. So, and I, and also, I just think like becoming more grateful as I've gotten older for
23:37them exact reasons is, uh, you know, is a pretty cool thing. Like I, I remember like when, when I
23:43was
23:43young, you'd just, you'd just do it because it was just happening around you, you know? And I think,
23:49feel like the older I've gotten, the more I'm like, Christ, these people are turning up 15 years
23:54later. And they're like, it's mind blown to me every time now. Um, and I, it's really at 24 was
24:01a big year for me. Like just thinking back in hindsight, like it was, it made me realize a lot
24:06of stuff and yeah, very grateful for it all. It must be humbling to know people have been turning
24:11out for 15 years. It's unbelievable. Like, I think when you see, when we were doing the stadiums back
24:16in the day, you'd stand and you'd just see a sea of people. And I think in the arenas now
24:20when I'm
24:20there on stage, like you're like every single person in this room has a story as to how they
24:25became a fan, how they listened to your music, how they paid for petrol to get here tonight. Like
24:32flights, this mother here is bringing three kids and this student here, you know, buys a meal deal
24:39just to buy your, your ticket for your show. Like there are people are putting aside money to buy a
24:44ticket. Like it's fucking mind blown when you, when you break it down for what it is, it's, um,
24:50it's pretty cool. So hopefully plenty more where that came from. Be lovely, please. Thank you.
24:57Not to keep aging you, but the debut album will turn 10 years next year.
25:00Is there a potential for a kind of 10th anniversary reissue with bonus tracks? Is there much in the vault?
25:05Oh, cause fans love that kind of thing now.
25:07Yeah, actually. Now that you say that, like, I remember a deluxe used to be a place where I would
25:12hide songs
25:13that like, that I didn't particularly like, but we needed a deluxe. And now I get excited for the
25:18looks like a couple of the couple of the songs that'll be on my deluxe or this time are my
25:22favorites.
25:23And I just needed to make a 12th track album. Like I didn't really know how to like put that
25:27jigsaw
25:28puzzle together. So the deluxe is like a, has now become a much bigger thing for me. Um, maybe I
25:35could,
25:35yeah, maybe I could, maybe I could have a little dig, see what I could find in the old Dropbox.
25:40Cause there's, there's probably a couple of good ones in there that, yeah, that I would love.
25:45Maybe. I haven't even thought about that. Maybe you could, maybe you've just come up with the idea.
25:49Well, I feel like Taylor Swift's changed the whole game with that kind of thing,
25:51cause she's gone in and taken these tracks from the vault and sometimes she's like re-recording
25:55with an artist now and she's just tracks that would have been seen as sort of scraps and now
26:00tracks in the remote, which is kind of amazing.
26:02We're currently in the universal music building. So we might have to go upstairs and have a board meeting.
26:05Now me and you, um, that's actually a really good idea.
26:08No, the Taylor thing was great. I know it was forced upon her to do so.
26:11Um, and she did the right thing obviously. And, uh, yeah, you're right. That was re,
26:17reissuing some of those. Great. That's a good shout, by the way. That's a right revelation.
26:24It happened here.
26:25You did a collaboration with Miles Smith back in February. Yeah.
26:29Um, what made him someone you wanted to work with and who else is on the kind of wish list
26:33if you're going to do another club? Uh, I miles, um, watching him from afar the last couple of
26:37years has been really cool because he's in a bit of a lane there on his own. And I, that's
26:42what I love.
26:43I love people who are like in a world of different types of music and what's doing well and what's,
26:48what's not doing well. Like he was like very much in his own thing and having big songs with it.
26:52And that's what I loved about it. I love seeing that. Um,
26:55and I just, yeah, I just thought he carried himself well and he was a funny guy. And,
26:59and then he, we became, we started messaging. We have a couple of mutual mates and they put us in
27:05touch. And then he was like writing at the time and he sent me the chorus to this song and
27:10he's like,
27:11give it a listen. And it's also a big fear. You send someone a song, you're like, they could be
27:15like,
27:16Oh, I don't know how to get out of this. So I can understand it from his point of view
27:20too.
27:20And, uh, he sent me this song and I was like, this chorus is banging. And we went into the
27:26studio.
27:26It was the first time we'd actually met in real life was in this studio. And, um,
27:31funny enough, he was going to a football match that night. And I was thinking to myself,
27:34we got there at like two o'clock, he was leaving at six. And I was like,
27:36what if we actually didn't write this song? But like when, when we would,
27:40cause I was going away and I was like, well, this was our only chance to write this.
27:43And it worked out that we got on very well. We think very similarly when we're sitting down to write.
27:48So we did, we actually wrote it really quick, recorded it. Um, and then we were like,
27:53we need to release this as like a, as a single. Um, and I just love the song. I love
27:58the message.
27:59Um, it's a real feel good song with a message. Um, and he's such a smart, smart guy. Like it's
28:06it's impressive, impressive fellow to be around and he's a good laugh as well. So winner winner.
28:10It always helps if someone's fun to work with. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Cause sometimes you,
28:15well, I, I've been very lucky, but I can imagine like, I can, some collaborations have happened
28:20and it's like, Ooh, that's a bit awkward that you kind of forced on them or whatever. But I,
28:24I've been very lucky with every collab I've done. I've either wanted to, I've either brought the song
28:28to the table. Someone's written something and brought it to me. Like I've been lucky with that.
28:33And they've been great people too, like between Julia Michaels and Mara Morris and Lizzie McAlpine and
28:40yeah, no. And, um, Miles, it's just pretty cool. How interested are you in writing for other
28:47artists? Because there is a new boy band that Simon Cowell's put together called December 10.
28:51If anyone knows how to write a kind of pop rocky boy band song. Here we go. Uh, I don't
28:57know.
28:57I haven't done a lot of it. Um, I've had a couple of tunes that I've been like,
29:02that I've pitched the half and made it. Um, but yeah, I like, if I have, I, it's more like,
29:09I spend so much time on my own stuff and I kind of like, well, if it didn't make my
29:14album,
29:15it's probably not good enough to make theirs. So I didn't like, I never really, I should probably
29:19pitch more maybe. I don't know. And cause I write so many songs that I should probably pitch them to,
29:23to record labels and send them to artists. So maybe that's something that I need to do a little bit
29:28more
29:28of. Um, yeah, I, I have been invited to a couple of like camps for different, um, things that for
29:34different record labels or whatever that I've never, uh, actually been able to make. Um, so maybe
29:40in the future, I think with how I work my schedule now, I'll probably try and find more time to
29:44do
29:44stuff like that. Cause John and Julian are always doing stuff for different record labels, like
29:48starting ideas for projects for different artists. And maybe I should just tag along sometime and see
29:53what we come up with. I guess there's a different mindset writing to a brief as opposed to writing
29:57what's absolutely personal to you. Not to say that those songs don't, aren't personal, but yeah, no, no.
30:02Like if you're, if you're writing to a brief, it could probably be a little bit more liberating
30:05cause you don't have to over, there's no overthinking. Like, you know, you know what you're doing,
30:09you know exactly how it's going to sound, you know, the beats you're singing over the types of chords.
30:13Is it R and B led? Is it poppier led? Is it, you know, like there's, it's probably a little
30:19bit more
30:19liberating cause you can just throw it at the wall and hope, you know, whereas in your own stuff,
30:26you're thinking about the emotion, you're thinking about the sound you want to show off to the world.
30:31You're thinking about your evolution. You're thinking about your lyric. You're thinking about
30:34your vote, your own vocal. You're thinking like, I can imagine there's, it's quite intense making an
30:39album. Um, you know, you're like, I'm also thinking about what angle have I not touched on yet
30:45that would complete the story or whatever. Um, there's a lot more to it than just going in and
30:51writing, but I would like to do a bit more of that. Yeah. Let's ask a couple more questions.
30:55Where's the weirdest place you've heard one of your songs?
31:00I was actually talking to someone about this yesterday. There was an Indian restaurant next
31:04to my old house in Gloucester Road. And the first time I ever went in there, this guy just,
31:09he just started playing my music and I was just like, Oh no, like what makes him think that I
31:16want
31:16this? And then, uh, I don't. And if you're a restaurant or bar owner, please just don't play
31:22my music when we walk in. Cause it's makes me want to leave, but the food was that good. I
31:26kept going
31:26back. He was actually ended up being a nice man and I went there loads of times. Uh, weirdest place.
31:31I remember being on an island in the Philippines called, uh, El Nido and hearing like a, there was
31:38a deep, like it's very small island. It's got like a shack on a beach. And I remember hearing a
31:431D song called Never Enough, a deep, deep cut. Um, I remember hearing that in the, in that little
31:50shack on the beach, really, really, really random. Um, where else have I heard? I went to get a facial
31:57one day and they had like an acoustic playlist on and this town came on. It's quite random.
32:04I'm just sitting there with the goggles on under a UV, under a LED light or a UV light.
32:09Did that make it harder for you to relax? Yeah. It was like, Oh, this is awkward thinking this
32:15person, I'm in a vulnerable state here. Did this person do this on purpose? Cause now I feel more
32:20vulnerable or was I just part of that playlist? So yeah, I've had a, when you, when you've done
32:27it for 15 years, you've heard, you've, I've probably got way more weird places than that.
32:31Yeah, I definitely do. Um, but yeah, they're the first two to come to mind.
32:35Does it happen quite often that you're out somewhere in public and one of your songs just
32:38happens to come on? Yeah, taxis. Yeah.
32:41Ubers is the big one. I was at a pub quiz a few weeks ago on a Sunday night and
32:46when I walked,
32:47as I was walking in the door, I quickly turned on my heels cause I heard my own music. I
32:52could do
32:52without that. Cause I don't want anyone to be like, Oh, you're on and you've just walked in.
32:57Uh, yeah, it's kind of embarrassing when you, when you do that. Yeah. Tracks too much attention.
33:04Last question. I'm with a slightly cheesy one, but what are you proudest of in your career so far?
33:09Wow. I'm happy with my authenticity in my music. I think, I think it's, I've stuck to my guns on
33:16what
33:17the type of music that I make. And I, yeah, I think that's probably the biggest one. And like,
33:25it's stood me in good stead long, you know, longevity wise. Listen, it's only been 15 years.
33:30Let's, let's not call it longevity yet, but you know what I mean? I've made it this far. Let's hope
33:35we can keep going. Yeah. I'm proud of the, how it slowly got a little bit bigger each time.
33:42Um, it's not easy out there. There's a lot of big artists doing big things and, um, that are streamed
33:50bigger than me and sell more records than me and do all that. And I've just stuck to my guns
33:54and held
33:55out and hopefully it keeps standing me in good stead of what it has so far. You know, I went,
33:59my first tour was little small theaters and you know, the next one was an arena tour and hopefully,
34:07you know, I can keep doing that. And that's the, the dream is, is that. And, uh, yeah,
34:12just sticking to my guns on something things, I think is probably the thing I'm most proud of in a
34:16world of,
34:17in a very fast paced world, I've kind of stuck to the way I do things. And, um, thankfully,
34:23only because of the fans, because they're, they're not as, they're not fickle. They're,
34:28they're very patient. They've waited for new music for three years and hopefully they'll turn out again.
34:35It feels as though you really can trust your gut. I mean, we talked about this time, which was such
34:38an
34:38understated choice of debut solo single and it's now got over a billion streams on Spotify. That's a
34:43decision that was absolutely correct in the longterm, not just in the moment.
34:46Yeah. It's funny. Cause like, I don't think anyone was shocked when I released this town.
34:49I don't think anyone was gone. Oh, what's he doing with that? Cause I think they respect me
34:53to be the guy with the guitar. I think that was quite a natural place for me to go. But
34:58I think at the
34:58time, I think you have to get lucky with those kinds of things too. Like when this town came out,
35:03it was a world of, if I'm not mistaken, it was quite like EDM at the time. If I could
35:08be wrong with
35:08that, but it felt like that way. And it kind of just stood out cause it was the only song
35:11in the
35:12chart at the time that was, it was literally just me and the guitar. There was nothing else on it.
35:16And same with slow hands, like slow hands, a pop record, but it's got like an eighties kind of
35:22guitar, Don Henley kind of this to it. And, um, and I'm quite groovy. And it was of a time
35:29where
35:29the music was very different. Like I remember being performing at the American music awards and I won best
35:35new artists and all the other performances were so different to what I was about to do.
35:41And I was thinking like, Oh, I'm happy with that because it's nice to stand out sometimes.
35:46Um, so yeah, I just, you do have to have a bit of luck as well as the songs being
35:50good. You have to be in the right place at the right time too. And yeah, we'll see how the
35:55next
35:56stuff goes, but I'm happy with it. Amazing. Well, yeah. Thank you so much for your time.
36:00Thank you. Thank you. Please wear that t-shirt next time.
36:02I will too.
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