- 6 weeks ago
For this weeks In Conversation the Grantham-born artist sits down with NME to discuss the “dark fairytale universe” of her second album ‘Cruel World’, building a new life in London and why she’s learning to accept the confusion of navigating her twenties
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00:00Having that human connection and having music to retreat to as a comfort thing
00:05has been so important for me and to also share the not-so-pretty parts as well
00:12because we're all human beings and we all need music and we all need connection.
00:26Hey, you're watching NME. My name is Rishi and today we're at Dawson's for the latest in our In Conversation
00:32series
00:32and we're joined by Holly Humberstone. How are you?
00:35Hey, I'm amazing. Thank you so much for having me.
00:37Thanks for coming along. The last time you spoke to us was in October 2023 around Paint My Bedroom Black
00:43coming out.
00:44It's been a couple of years since then, sort of now. Obviously, you've toured that record, played so many shows.
00:50How was that tour cycle for you? Because so much of the record was obviously written on the road
00:55about sort of the challenges that you experienced, but putting that into practice on another tour cycle,
01:02how did you sort of cope? Were things a bit better this time around?
01:06Yeah, totally. I think so. I mean, I have like the most amazing touring team
01:11and I think that touring can, I can see how people would like really hate it if you don't have
01:16the right people around you
01:17because it is such an intense kind of schedule and pace of work.
01:23And obviously you're away from home for a long time and I love being at home by myself as well.
01:29I feel like I need kind of both ends of the spectrum.
01:33So, yeah, it's easy to get overwhelmed, I think, when you're on tour, but I've got, yeah, the most amazing
01:37band.
01:38Like they've become my family almost.
01:41And I think a lot of the new album and being home, I've kind of written with that in mind.
01:47I kind of got off the back of a lot of touring last September and was like, I'm really going
01:52to miss this.
01:52And I have like, I kind of set myself the challenge to write a bunch of songs that I am
01:58going to be really excited to play on tour with my band again.
02:02And I think you can kind of hear that bandy kind of collaboration kind of feel to the new music.
02:09Yeah, for sure. We'll come on to that in a bit.
02:11And touring just in general, because it is sort of an inevitable thing that any time you release a record,
02:16a tour will sort of come with it.
02:18Has it sort of repurposed itself, like you kind of touched on there, into something that, you know, you can
02:23look forward to, be excited about,
02:25kind of find a sense of belonging and sort of home in that lifestyle as well?
02:28A hundred percent. I mean, especially like I've been at home.
02:32I mean, I had a, I went on tour in September for the first time in a long time, which
02:37was kind of my first tour back, I guess, with some new music.
02:41But before that, I was just like dying to get back out on tour.
02:45Like I used to really struggle with it, I think, maybe the last time we spoke.
02:48Yeah, I was in that place, but I literally love touring so much.
02:53I'm so excited to, to be back and I feel like I'm excited for a new, a new couple songs
02:59on the set list.
03:00Yeah, I'm just really gassed to be able to kind of connect with people in person again in a room.
03:06Yeah, I'm really proud of this, the new song. So yeah, I'm excited to tour them and yeah.
03:11So towards the end of the Paint My Bedroom Black sort of touring run, and you had that show at
03:16Wembley with Taylor Swift and Paramore.
03:19What was that experience like for the songs, I guess, that were written by you in sometimes, you know, small
03:25rooms, hotel rooms, kind of the four walls, playing it at the kind of the most famous stadium in the
03:32UK?
03:32It was very strange. I don't really know how it happened. It kind of seems like a bit of a
03:38blur.
03:39And when I see pictures of it or like clips of it, I'm like, I can't really process that that's
03:44me on the stage in Wembley.
03:46Like it just doesn't really compute. But yeah, it was like an amazing day.
03:49And my family all came down to kind of support me and watch me.
03:52And I've obviously been a Swifty my whole life. Love that girl.
03:55So yeah, it was just a really, really cool experience.
03:57And yeah, obviously, when I was writing a lot of those songs, like I never, ever would have envisioned playing
04:03them to however many people you can film inside Wembley.
04:08So yeah, that was pretty, pretty sick and kind of inspiring as well.
04:12And really affirming that somebody like Taylor Swift, who I admire so much, would want to kind of support me
04:17and have her have me open for her.
04:19So it was really cool.
04:21Awesome. And what does the conversation between Holly Humberstone and Taylor Swift or Hayley Williams look like backstage?
04:26Oh, man, I really panicked. Like, I got five minutes with the girl. And I, I honestly just chatted a
04:34bunch of shit.
04:35I chatted so much mad stuff to poor Taylor Swift, just too excited. And I couldn't really calm myself down
04:43in the moment.
04:44But I just said I liked her outfits. And she was like, Oh, I've been a fan of yours for
04:49a while, which, again, just didn't really compute with me.
04:53So, yeah, I still can't really believe it happened. It was so cool.
04:57Where did Cruel World sort of start for you? Did it, did it fall out of you? Was it kind
05:01of a process you instigated?
05:03What were the kind of first, I guess, seeds of the album that you can consciously sort of remember?
05:08Mm hmm. I mean, I feel like when I'm setting out to kind of write an album, I never really
05:15have any kind of objective.
05:18I'm just kind of going into the studio and just getting out kind of subconsciously what what's what I want
05:25to write about that day.
05:26Yeah, I guess when I started writing Cruel World, as we were talking about, like I'd been on a constant
05:32kind of touring kind of loop for the past like three or five years.
05:37As I said, like, I love touring so much, but I feel like it's super easy to kind of get
05:42caught up in just that and the next thing and the pace of it.
05:47And I love being kind of on stage and being a performer and being an artist.
05:52But I think when I came off tour last September, I was like, I know who I am as an
05:58artist, but who am I as a person?
06:00And it was the first kind of chunk of time that I'd ever had to kind of just off.
06:05Main objective is to just go and live your life like a normal person and to write an album, which
06:09was a very different experience to how I wrote Pit My Bedroom Black,
06:12which was just kind of little gathering little little bits of notes in hotel rooms or like coming back from
06:20tour, getting like a two weeks to go into the studio.
06:23So this was like very different having kind of an extended period of time to just write an album and
06:29to just live like a normal person in London.
06:31Yeah, I feel like I really needed the space to just take a breather and to slow things down a
06:38bit and to reconnect with with who I am.
06:42And yeah, there's lots of things changing during this past year that I feel like have informed the writing of
06:47the album.
06:49Firstly, kind of just my first experience of being in love and being in a relationship.
06:53I feel like that's like such a formative thing and just kind of exploring love as an emotion and finding
07:02out that actually love is like it can be the most amazing thing,
07:05but it's like inherently such a painful emotion at its core and you can't really separate out the kind of
07:12amazing parts of it with the really, really rubbish lows of being in love.
07:19So, yeah, I feel like kind of exploring that kind of dichotomy, I guess, was a big theme in the
07:26album, which you can hear.
07:27And also just we moved out of the haunted house.
07:30I feel like people are so sick of hearing about the haunted house that I promise I'm nearly done talking
07:34about it.
07:34But yeah, my parents moved out in May.
07:38And so for that first kind of chunk of the writing period, I was going back to the Midlands and
07:43helping my parents sort out like 25 years worth of just like six Humberstones hoarder.
07:52Just nightmare, which was a really interesting process.
07:57And I kind of rediscovered lots of old relics that I used to treasure, you know, in the back of
08:03my wardrobe and just things under my bed in my childhood room that I would never have kind of found
08:10if I hadn't been moving out and taken the time to kind of stop and to go through all of
08:15my stuff.
08:16And yeah, I found like a lot of items that I feel like inspired some of the writing and some
08:21of the creative things like that, that I feel like really helped me to kind of reconnect to my to
08:26who I am at my core.
08:27I just kind of forgotten about. And I feel like the music feels more like me than anything that I've
08:33ever made, just because I've had the time to kind of look inward a bit and rediscover who I am.
08:38What's it like trying to create a new life in London, say goodbye to the place you grew up in,
08:45but then keep some of that familiarity and still say goodbye to things at the same time?
08:50How have you sort of found that balance? Is it something you're still navigating?
08:54Yeah, definitely. I mean, I feel like I'm so heavily inspired by my physical surroundings. Like I'm such an empath.
09:03I'm like the third of four sisters.
09:07So yeah, I'm very, very sensitive to kind of what's going on around me. And I feel like in this
09:11past year, everything just looks physically different.
09:14I've moved house in London as well. And my sisters and I, it's actually been kind of a little bit
09:20hilarious because we've been trying to renovate a really old house in London, which has been an interesting process and
09:27such a first.
09:28But yeah, I think just redefining home and physically shaping my world around me has been really, really crucial to
09:39the writing process as well, I think.
09:41And yeah, I don't know. I painted my new bedroom pink. I feel like it's the color of my childhood
09:47bedroom. And I just think it's hilarious.
09:50Like the character arc that I've kind of been through from this last album is so funny, but I feel
09:54like it's a strange kind of time in my life.
09:58You know, like being in your 20s is so confusing and stuff looks different every month or year or day.
10:05I personally feel like a different person, like pretty much every week trying to figure out who the hell I
10:11am.
10:11And yeah, I think I think you can hear a lot of that in the writing.
10:14I feel like writing has always been my way of kind of just trying to navigate what's going on around
10:19me.
10:19One of my favorite songs on the album is called Lucy, and it's just for for any other kind of
10:25young girl out there, kind of like me, just trying to navigate life in a world that isn't really built
10:31for them.
10:32And things can be super confusing, but you've just got to kind of roll with the punches and realize that,
10:37yeah, it just takes time to find your feet in the modern world.
10:41And it's a very strange place. Yeah, for sure. It's such an important message. And when did you realize that
10:48level of acceptance that, like you say, things are changing, things are confusing every day, every week, you feel a
10:54different emotion, but that's OK.
10:56What kind of revealed that to you? I think just the songs, honestly, like I think I've learned so much
11:02about myself through Cruel World and through these songs that I've written.
11:07And just as I said, I have no real control over what kind of comes out in the room.
11:12That sounds so stupid and that is kind of true. I just kind of have to go with my gut
11:16in the room and write about how I'm feeling on the day.
11:21And, you know, in in love, in my career and all of these parts of my life that I'm constantly
11:28feeling like I'm so out of control of.
11:31I don't think I'll ever feel in control of any of it. And I think that that's part of the
11:36beauty of life is just that anything is could be around the corner and you've just kind of got to
11:41roll with the punches.
11:43And yeah. And just to remember at the end of the day that you're only a human being and like,
11:46yeah, it's all part of the fun.
11:48You've just got to kind of ride the wave of chaos, I guess, that comes at you in your 20s
11:53and hope that you're going to come out of it a well-rounded person.
11:58Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's a great, great way to look at things, you know, in terms of the journey
12:03that we're all on and you're on.
12:04Totally. I think it's hopeless trying to kind of trying to kind of keep your life in in in check.
12:11I think we've all just got to kind of surrender to the the weirdness of of life, you know?
12:16Yeah, for sure. And life itself outside of music, you sort of said this is the longest bit of time
12:22you've had because it's just been so constant since you started making music and touring.
12:27What did what did that life look like? You said you had to sort of figure yourself out a bit.
12:32Did you need time for like Holly Humberstone, the person to catch up with the person who is making music?
12:38What what did life outside of music sort of look like?
12:41Totally, totally. I mean, like it's such a weird thing coming off the back of like a big chunk of
12:46touring because that's my life has so much structure when I'm on the road, you know,
12:51and I know exactly what I'm doing every day and what my job is, you know, at like nine o
12:55'clock I'll go on stage and I'll obviously have the most fun time.
13:00Yeah, I just feel like having a structured life is such a thing when you're on the road.
13:05And then when you get back, it's like, who am I without these people that I've been spending my whole
13:09life with for the past few years?
13:11You know, what do I do with my free time now that I have free time?
13:16So it definitely took me a while to kind of figure out just how to be and how to exist
13:22and how to kind of be on my own as well.
13:26And just have have thoughts, you know, because it's so easy to kind of.
13:31Yeah, touring is overwhelming and overstimulating.
13:35Yeah, getting home and being really under stimulated and being like, I've just got to kind of have a normal
13:39life and be a normal person now is a really unnatural, strange shift.
13:44And I think a lot of people struggle with that.
13:46You know, when I talk to my my tour manager, Carl, he's like constantly checking in on me when we
13:51get back because he's like, how how are you doing?
13:54This is such a weird change of pace.
13:56But yeah, I don't know. I think for me just trying to be to be kind to myself and to
14:03give myself the space to kind of be creative in my own time.
14:07And obviously the the objective was to write an album, but also to kind of, yeah, like you said, just
14:13find out who I am again and live my own life.
14:16And I like going to the pub with my with my friends and my sisters and seeing my family is
14:23like really important to me.
14:24And so that was, I guess, the top of my priority list. But yeah, it's been like a really important
14:30year.
14:30I think I've done like a lot of growing up this past year, more so than I guess I have
14:35since I started doing this as a career, I think.
14:38So, yeah, it's been a formative year and I feel like I am in a position where I've released an
14:46album before and I've done it before.
14:47And I've been in the industry a long time now and I feel like I finally kind of can take
14:55agency in my personal life and in as an artist and kind of run my own project more, which I
15:01found super hard to do in my early 20s.
15:05And yeah, I've just had the best time. I've worked with some of my best friends on this and my
15:11older sister, Larry, has like creatively directed everything alongside me.
15:16And that's been a really fun thing to get into because I've never delved into the visuals and the creative
15:22side of things as much as I have for Cool World.
15:24So that's been really fun. And I love all of that. And I'm really excited to share all of that
15:30visual kind of world side of things.
15:34So, yeah, it's just been like a really fun process. It's been like vastly different from Paint My Bedroom Black.
15:40I think that was different in its own way. But this has been really important.
15:44And I think the album itself feels it's a reflection of how I've felt for this past year, which is
15:49kind of like I have no idea what's going on.
15:51But there's kind of a positive kind of optimistic kind of forward motion, I think, in a lot of the
15:57songs that, yeah, I'm again, I'm really excited to kind of bring to a stage and to play live with
16:02my band and yeah, just have some fun with it in 2026.
16:06Yeah, we'll come on to some specific songs in a minute. But just want to touch on something you said
16:12there about that empty time sort of at home where you said you can be under stimulated, getting OK with
16:18that.
16:19Were there things you did to sort of fill that void? Was music the thing that kind of kept coming
16:25back?
16:25Or is it not about filling the void and maybe just being OK with that? How did that sort of
16:30time because empty time can can be a long time, especially over the course of a year?
16:35I mean, I think the instinct is to to try and just fill the void with like having The Simpsons
16:41on a constant loop in the background, which is which is what I do.
16:46But yeah, I think it's been important for me to just like be alone with my thoughts for a little
16:51while and to kind of as I said, like I had a lot of figuring out to do, like how
16:55I want to present myself.
16:57It's a it's a completely new chapter. And I'm such a different person to who I was when I wrote
17:03Paint My Bedroom Black, you know, like those songs I wrote maybe like five years ago, some of them.
17:08So, yeah, I'm such a different person from who I was then. So I think it's been really, really important
17:14for me to to have this time to just figure out who I am.
17:19And I guess I've been watching a lot of films like the creative has been heavily inspired by films that
17:26I used to love as a kid.
17:27Like I found when we were clearing the house out, I found the CD, my old CD of The Red
17:34Shoes, which I used to really like love.
17:36I just love that film so much. And I think films of that kind of genre, those old Hollywood movies
17:44have such a gorgeous kind of tone to them.
17:48And the colors are just like really amazing. And I like how everything feels kind of uncanny and fake and
17:55a bit crusty.
17:56Do you know what I mean about those old films? And so like me and my sister, like had a
18:01lot of time to kind of go on some crazy tangents with the films that we were watching that have
18:08really heavily inspired the creative as well.
18:10So I've been doing that, which has been so fun. And yeah, just trying to just trying to be me
18:16and trying to present this next chapter honestly and vulnerably.
18:21And yeah, I hope people can feel how how much of myself I put into it.
18:27Yeah. And for sure, those tangents, they can't happen without allowing the time for them, I guess.
18:32Totally. Totally. Like, I think that's why it's been so much. It's just been kind of like a bit of
18:38a fun process, like, especially with the kind of fixing up of the house at home.
18:46I mean, look at me, I don't know how to renovate a house. It's been a learning curve and I
18:54still don't really know anything.
18:55It's just been me and my sister basically just trying to figure it out at home.
18:59So for once, like going to the studio was like the least stressful part of my life, you know?
19:04Yeah.
19:04I just didn't have the spare mental capacity to be worrying about what I was going to write and thinking
19:11too hard about it.
19:12So when I did get to the studio, that felt like the place to escape and to create my own
19:19kind of fantasy world, which is where the cruel world came from.
19:22And yeah, it's just like it's nice to be able to kind of romanticize the mundane.
19:27I feel like I talk a lot about where I live and just like being, yeah, as I said, being
19:33a young woman in London and trying to figure out this confusing city.
19:38Those trips to the studio that you were taking, what kind of created that familiarity in music?
19:45Because you've written throughout the whirlwind in so many different places around the world, in so many different environments.
19:51Even now, as you've said, there's all this change going on in your life.
19:55What was it about music and writing the record?
19:58And as you said, not having the mental capacity to sort of overthink it, that kind of made it something
20:05that was you could go back to and really thrive in when it comes to making this album?
20:10Hmm. I think it's just that I like I think in something that I know how to do, it's like
20:16maybe the one thing that I am like, OK, I've got this.
20:21Like, I know how to write a song. My life might seem like it's falling apart a little bit and
20:26I don't know what's going on, but I know how to write a song about it.
20:30So I think that's why it's it's always felt like such a safe space. And yeah, I mean, I had
20:37no kind of real I've had nothing to kind of follow up, you know, like there's been no pressure on
20:44me this time writing a fresh album.
20:47And I feel like for me, I do not work very well under pressure, as I'm sure it's the same
20:52for a lot of creatives.
20:54But I just feel like any kind of, yeah, pressure or expectation just kind of kills all creativity.
21:02It's been really, really nice to, as I said, just not have any time constraint on it or like no
21:07pressure. That was really important.
21:09And of course, my collaborators, I feel like it takes a village to make an album.
21:15Yeah, I think just the more that we write together. I mean, I work with somebody called Rob, who we
21:21met in Nottingham before we both moved down here to London.
21:24So we've been writing music together for a long time.
21:28And I've just gotten to work with some amazing people over the years and some people that I've had a
21:35relationship for a long time with, like Rob and Ben Leftwich, who like both of them, I just love spending
21:42time with them.
21:43And I think that's the number one important thing when you're writing songs is why would we be taking it
21:47too seriously?
21:48Like we get to go come to work to a studio and, you know, we get to write songs for
21:53a living.
21:53So I think I think you can hear the fun that we we had as well in the songs.
21:59And yeah, I've worked with some new people that I've never worked with before as well.
22:03And I just think it's super important to have people around you that you really trust creatively and understand your
22:09artist project and your vision and who you are as a person.
22:14Yeah, just give you the time and the space to kind of figure out what the songs are.
22:19Yeah. Awesome. And do you ever think about all the change you've gone through and kind of for the future,
22:25for any future periods of change in your life?
22:28You've always got songwriting. You've always got the fact that you know how to write a song.
22:33Is that a nice thing to think about that music can always be there for you in a way?
22:37I guess so. I mean, like, even if there comes a day where I mean, I'm constantly feeling like I
22:43can't write songs as well.
22:45Just I feel like everybody probably every songwriter probably has that intrusive thought that's like, shit, I've written my last
22:53good song.
22:55And now that I've written this one, you know, like I've peaked and I won't be able to follow this
23:00up with anything half as good.
23:03But I think that's a normal kind of thing to think. I think a lot of creatives probably have that
23:09intrusive thought.
23:10But like, I think it's probably it's the same for everybody who's like a music fan, whether I'm writing it
23:16or like listening to it.
23:17But music, I think, will always be such a huge, huge part of my world, which I'm so grateful for,
23:26because the world would be like such a dull place without without music and without that human connection.
23:33And I feel like especially with the current kind of climate and all of the horrific, terrifying things that are
23:40happening in the world, like having that human connection and having music to retreat to as a comfort thing has
23:49been so important for me.
23:50And I think that's why it's important to kind of be vulnerable and to be open and to share kind
23:56of the truth and to share the good parts of my life, like being in love and to also share
24:02the not so pretty parts as well, because both of those things are true.
24:09And yeah, we're all human beings and we all need music and we all need connection.
24:15Completely agree. So got to get into a few of the songs, of course, to love somebody.
24:20First of all, how easy or difficult is that to focus on lots of different emotions and channel them into
24:27a song rather than isolated emotions?
24:30Because as humans, maybe I'm sure something you've experienced, you can it's so easy to focus on one thing, especially
24:38the the negatives in times and times and times.
24:40Where do you find the silver lining?
24:42Yeah. When I wrote to love somebody, I wrote it about somebody who was really close to me, who was
24:46going through a really, really rough breakup.
24:51And we live together and I feel like I felt a lot of the things that she was going through.
24:58And yeah, we're super close and it was hard for me to watch somebody so close to me kind of
25:03experience all of these emotions.
25:04And so when I set out to write that song, I think my main aim was to give her something
25:10that felt positive and to kind of flip a horrendous, brutal heartbreak on its head.
25:17And to be like, you know, you're feeling all of these really low lows right now.
25:22But, you know, the grief that you feel now is only a reflection of the love that you felt.
25:26And some people go through their whole lives without, you know, being in love.
25:29And it's such a special thing to be able to have in your life, even if it is kind of
25:34short lived.
25:34It comes and goes. And so, yeah, I think that was my aim.
25:39I mean, it's a very simple thing, you know, like nostalgia, I feel like is a similar emotion to me
25:47where it's like so, so intense and it's amazing and like really gorgeous.
25:51But it's also like so, so upsetting and painful at the same time.
25:56And that's what makes it such a strong emotion.
25:58And I think that's the same with love. It's just you're a human being and you're going to feel all
26:04of these extremes.
26:05And it's OK to just let yourself feel everything because at least you're feeling something, you know.
26:11You sort of said there on To Love Somebody, writing about someone else's experiences.
26:16That's a tool you've gone back to a few times. I can think of a song like Scarlet.
26:20When you're writing about other people's experiences and that channeling that sort of empathy.
26:25Yeah.
26:26What's that like into a song compared to writing about stuff that's so personal to you?
26:31Is there crossover? Is there overlap?
26:33Totally. I think that, I mean, as I said before, I have, you know,
26:40very, very close personal relationships with my sisters and with my friends that I love so much.
26:46And I feel like as an empath, it is a lot easier for me to kind of watch somebody else
26:54and watch what they're going through
26:55and try and translate that into a song than sometimes it is to look at myself and to look in
27:00the mirror
27:00and to figure out how I'm feeling about something.
27:03I think that writing love songs is something that I kind of know how to do.
27:09And I really enjoy doing it.
27:11So, yeah, that's why I love Cruel World because it sounds like, yeah, it sounds like this anthemic kind of
27:17optimistic pop song.
27:19But if you really listen to the words, it's kind of a little bit crushing and a little bit dark.
27:23And everybody can relate to missing somebody and feeling like everything's kind of wrong when that one person isn't in
27:30your world.
27:31So, yeah.
27:32Yeah. And to kind of follow on from that, make it all better and die happy, which was the first
27:37thing we heard from this record.
27:39When that person is in your world, correct me if I'm wrong, if those songs are about the relationship you're
27:46in at the moment.
27:47What's that like to give yourself to that amazing feeling and convey those sort of emotions into those two songs,
27:55for example?
27:56Totally. I mean, I feel like those two songs to me are very different songs, but, you know, they're talking
28:01about the same, the exact same thing.
28:03How love can be all consuming and so, so powerful.
28:10And I think for for Die Happy, I was I was really inspired by kind of the season I wrote
28:19in, which was Halloween.
28:19And I love Tim Burton movies and just his kind of world building aspect.
28:26You know, I I was really inspired by that and wanted to kind of write my own kind of Tim
28:33Burton esque song.
28:34Yeah.
28:35And that's kind of about how love can feel really dangerous and you can you can love somebody so much
28:42that it can be kind of scary, which I think that a lot of people can probably relate to.
28:47Make it all better. I also like I'm really proud of that songwriting that one wrote itself really quickly.
28:53And I guess those two songs just I just wanted to romanticize my own life and write a song in
29:02a kind of melodramatic way about about love.
29:04And it's often not not as interesting as it seems. It's just kind of about the mundane.
29:10But yeah, it's important to romanticize those parts of your life as well.
29:13And you mentioned it a few times, sort of Ellera, your sister was involved in the creative for this.
29:19With you, something you threw yourself into a bit more than maybe you've had time to in the past.
29:25What what sort of is that process like to add those layers to to the music?
29:30Yeah, I mean, it's something that I've always wanted to do, but I never thought that I could.
29:36I think that, as I said before, I I know how to write songs and I kind of never thought
29:43that the creative side of things could be so fun and that it could just be another medium to be
29:50able to tell the stories and to be able to kind of amplify the messages that I've written into the
29:55songs.
29:55When we wrote the song Cruel World, I think that kind of sparked everything because the name Cruel World just
30:01kind of led my sister and I on this crazy tangent.
30:05And as I said, I've always been inspired by kind of like Gothic, dark fairy tales.
30:12And yeah, I realized that like Alice in Wonderland, Wizard of Oz and stories like this about kind of alternative
30:19universes where, you know, the main character kind of goes into this underworld, this upside down to try and escape
30:26growing up and to kind of avoid reality.
30:28Yeah, the videos tell that story, but from my point of view, and I feel like Cruel World is kind
30:35of just my my own kind of dark fairy tale universe that I've made with my sister.
30:42And we worked with loads of amazing people.
30:46And yes, my first time working with a female director.
30:50Yeah, it's just crazy to be able to kind of, you know, work on something for so long and try
30:56and visualize something in your head for so long.
30:58And then see it all come to life.
31:01You know, we filmed everything over the course of a couple of days when we hired out this theater in
31:07London and and seeing it all come to life on stage.
31:11It was just like such a cool feeling.
31:13Yeah, it reflects who I am so much.
31:15And I wouldn't have been able to kind of do the creative and have the confidence to kind of step
31:20up and, you know, creatively direct my own kind of visual world if it hadn't been for the last album
31:30as well and kind of watching how stuff happens.
31:33And it's definitely given me so much more kind of backing and confidence to be able to work with my
31:38sister who knows me better than anybody and to create something with her.
31:43You know, I really trust her. And it's just been like so fun.
31:48Your sister, Larry, you've got two other sisters. I know you've moved in with two of them and your friends.
31:54You've never been shy about writing songs about how much you appreciate your friends, your sisters, how much you love
31:59them.
32:00What's what's that been like in this house, particularly given Paint My Bedroom Black was written partly at least about
32:08sort of missing some of those people and holding relationships and keeping relationships when you're, you know, so far away,
32:15half the way across the world.
32:16I mean, we're all just young, young girls trying to navigate life in our 20s.
32:22And it's really, really nice to be able to do that all together with each other, alongside each other.
32:27And we get to learn from each other's experiences and give each other advice.
32:33And, yeah, like my sisters and my friends are so much wiser than I, you know, could ever be.
32:39So it's been super so formative, basically kind of growing up with these people and then not wanting to let
32:46them go and moving in in London, because why would we want to live apart?
32:51I do find that it is it's yeah, I don't feel the need to kind of leave the house because
32:59I've got my best friends and my favourite people within the house.
33:02So I do have to force myself to leave, to get out every now and then.
33:08I think it's turned Cruel World into a very like feminine record.
33:13The transition from girlhood to adulthood, which is very scary and I'm very lucky to be able to kind of
33:19do it alongside other girls.
33:22My small contribution to what we've got going on to our little cult is that I can write songs for
33:28everybody, which is not that great.
33:30But yeah, everybody needs to know that they're on the right track sometimes.
33:34And I guess that's why Lucy and Beauty Pageant as songs are really important for me to put out.
33:40And yeah, we're really cathartic for me to write.
33:43Yeah, for sure. The fairy tales need all their characters, don't they?
33:46Yeah, totally. To come to life. Totally.
33:49Just judging by today, you sound so excited about everything, about getting to play the album, share that joy and
33:55euphoria.
33:55Yeah. Where does it sort of leave you setting up for the second half of 2026?
33:59I mean, I'm just so excited and I feel like ridiculously lucky to be able to be releasing another album.
34:09So, yeah, I don't know. These songs are really important to me and this album has been my entire life.
34:15I've put everything into it over the past year and it feels like such a time capsule of my mid
34:2320s.
34:24And I just hope that I can look back on it and be really proud of it.
34:27And I think that I will because I feel like I can truly stand behind every song and say that
34:32I like really genuinely like love what I've made.
34:36And so, yeah, I just feel super lucky to be able to write music for a living and to share
34:42it and to be able to go on tour is just like just beyond my wildest dreams.
34:47So I'm just gassed. I'm just looking forward to connecting with people through the songs and just getting back out
34:54there.
34:54Yeah. Yeah. Well, all the best with everything. Thank you so much. It's been so fun chatting.
34:58Appreciate it. Thank you.
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