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ON RECORD SA UNANG HIRIT na tinalakay ang latest update sa impeachment complaints laban kay Vice President Sara Duterte. Kahapon, nakitaan ng probable cause ang mga reklamo at unanimous ang naging desisyon ng mga miyembro ng House Committee on Justice.

Nakapanayam natin si Atty. Paolo Tamase ng UP College of Law para ipaliwanag ang nangyari sa impeachment proceedings at kung ano ang mga susunod na mangyayari.

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00:00It's really bad for the people who have a lot of allegations to him.
00:04It's good for the supporters.
00:06They don't have evidence.
00:08It's a mechanism for the
00:09It's important that we are the boss of the official.
00:12But if we don't have the process of that,
00:15then we have to pay for this situation
00:18that we don't function.
00:38But if we don't have the process of that,
00:40what are our kapuso?
00:43We don't want to impeach it on the 30th.
00:46What are the funds that he didn't charge?
00:49Why don't we just do that?
00:52Why are they not being able to work?
00:54Because it's like personal
00:56they're going to do it on their own.
00:59I believe that they deserve to be impeached
01:01for transparency
01:02and we are all aware that
01:04he has a lot of money.
01:05I think it's better to keep the impeachment
01:09to make sure
01:11whether it's a battle
01:13or not.
01:14It's a good answer.
01:19Yan ang ating pang-uusapan.
01:21Lilinawin at hihimayin.
01:23On record.
01:24Sa unang hirin.
01:27At mga kapalayan po natin ngayong umaga,
01:29Associate Dean at Assistant Professor
01:31ng UP College of Law, Attorney Paulo Tamase.
01:33Attorney, good morning.
01:34Thank you for joining us.
01:37Maganamagay, Ivan.
01:37At sin yung mga taga-sabaybay?
01:39Attorney, we are on record now.
01:41Unanimous po yung naging boto.
01:4353 to nil.
01:44Nakikitaan ng probable cause
01:46sa impeachment complaint
01:47laban kay Vice President Sara Duterte.
01:49Obviously, politically charged po
01:52itong proseso nito.
01:53But help us cut through the politics.
01:55And let's talk about the basis.
01:57Ano ba ang mga naging basihan
01:58para sabihin may probable cause
02:00to impeach the Vice President?
02:03Yung naging basihan po
02:04ng probable cause
02:05para tayo doon sa mga nakaraang
02:07apat na hiling ng House of Representatives
02:09ay iba't ibang ebidensya
02:10na lumabas upang suportahan
02:13yung complaint na inihain
02:15laban kay Vice President Sara Duterte.
02:17So yung pinaka-dramatic po siguro
02:19na nakita natin
02:20ay yung testimonya ni Madriaga
02:22ukol sa mga aptibidades
02:25ng Vice President.
02:26Yung mga dokumento po
02:28yung kanyang salen
02:29at yung mga discrepancies
02:31doon sa reports
02:32ng Anti-Money Laundering Council
02:34at yung video mismo
02:36ng kanyang pagbabanta
02:37sa buhay ni President Marcos.
02:39So yung mga ebidensya po na yun
02:41mukhang nakita po
02:42ng House of Representatives
02:43Committee on Justice
02:44na compelling po enough
02:46na meet yung standard natin
02:48ng probable cause.
02:49Kayo po,
02:49bilang isang abogado,
02:51do you agree with the
02:53decision of the committee?
02:56So, batay lang po sa akademik
02:58kung pananaw ko no.
02:59Agree naman po ako
03:00sa decision ng committee.
03:02Yung una po ay
03:03yung standard po kasi
03:04ng probable cause
03:05ay kung ano lamang
03:06yung ebidensya
03:07na sapat
03:07upang sa isang
03:08reasonable tao
03:09na maniwala
03:11na mayroong krimen
03:11na nangyari
03:12at na ang tao
03:13na nasasakdala
03:14ay responsable para rito.
03:16At I think
03:17doon naman
03:17sa mga nakitang ebidensya
03:19ay meron nga
03:19mga graft issues
03:20na lumalabas
03:21or at least hindi
03:22pagiging transparent
03:23sa taong bayan
03:24at isa yung patas
03:25na ground para sa
03:27impeachment
03:27under betrayal
03:28of public trust.
03:30At the same time,
03:30yung isa pa kong kasing
03:31nakatutulong dun
03:32sa pananaw na yun
03:33ay hindi pa ko natin
03:34nakikita yung ebidensya
03:35ni VP Sara.
03:37Dahil sa dami
03:38ng pagkakataon
03:39na binigil sa kanya
03:40upang mag-participate
03:41sa mga nangyari
03:42sa House of Representatives
03:43ay hindi po siya
03:44nagpapakita.
03:45So, kung wala pong ebidensya
03:46na contrary doon
03:47sa mga nakita natin,
03:49maitindihan ko po
03:49kung bakit po
03:50parang na-meet
03:51yung probable cause.
03:52Ano kung susunod
03:53sa impeachment process
03:54na ito, attorney?
03:55Pakipaliwanag,
03:56ano ba ang aasahan
03:57ng mga kababayan natin
03:58sa mga susunod na
03:59araw, linggo, o buwan?
04:01Ngayong na-establish
04:02yung probable cause,
04:03ano ba ang next steps?
04:04So, medyo mahaba po
04:06itong proseso na
04:07matapos po yung boto
04:08ng House of Representatives
04:09kahapon,
04:10nag-aantay po tayo
04:11ng committee report
04:11na ilalabas nila.
04:13Malabang po ilalabas
04:14daw iyon
04:14before yung May 4
04:15na resumption
04:17ng session
04:17ng House of Representatives
04:18at doon ay
04:19pagbobotohan yun
04:20ng plenario.
04:21Hindi lamang yung 50-plus
04:23na members ng committee
04:24but lahat ng 300-plus
04:25na members
04:26ng House of Representatives.
04:27Kung one-third
04:28doon sa House of Representatives
04:30ay buboto
04:31upang suportahan
04:33yung report
04:34ng Committee on Justice
04:35tatawin ito sa Senado
04:36kung saan magkakaroon
04:38ng paglilitis.
04:39At gaya nung mga nakita natin
04:40pero may significant din
04:42na pagkakaiba,
04:43makakakita tayo
04:44ng mga testigo
04:45at ebidensya
04:45sa Senado.
04:46Ngunit doon
04:47mas intense
04:48yung balik-taktakan
04:50kasi ang magpapresenta
04:51na ng ebidensya
04:52ay yung mga abogado
04:53mula sa House of Representatives
04:54at magkakaroon na
04:56ng oportunidad
04:56na mag-cross-examine
04:57yung mga abogado
04:59ni VP Sara.
05:00Bago naman
05:01magpakita ng sariling ebidensya
05:02ang kampo
05:03ni VP Sara
05:04kung saan ikaw
05:04cross-examine sila
05:05ng House of Representatives.
05:06So, mas doon po yung
05:07tinitignan natin
05:08na labasan ng ebidensya
05:09in addition
05:10sa mga nakita natin.
05:11Lagi ho natin naririnig
05:13yung sinasabing
05:14impeachment
05:15ay sui generis.
05:16Kakaiba po ito.
05:17May sariling mundo.
05:18May sariling buhay.
05:19Ika nga nila.
05:19It's both political
05:21and legal.
05:22Politically,
05:22what can prevent
05:23this impeachment process
05:24from going to full trial?
05:2653-0
05:27yung voto sa Komite
05:28pero
05:28it remains to be seen
05:29of course
05:30how the plenary will vote.
05:31And assuming
05:32umabot nga ito
05:33sa Senado,
05:34ibang usapan pa yung
05:34final vote
05:35ultimately.
05:37Tama ko no.
05:38So, hindi po nakatoon,
05:39hindi po naka-address
05:40ang impeachment
05:41sa mga hoes
05:42na nag-aral ng batas.
05:43Naka-address po siya
05:44sa ating mga mababatas,
05:45mga politikon
05:46na binoto natin.
05:47So, may mga
05:48political considerations
05:49talaga na pumapasok
05:50sa kanilang pagsuporta
05:52o pagtanggi
05:52sa isang impeachment.
05:54Nari yan yung
05:54pagiging popular
05:55ni VP Sara.
05:57Sikat talaga siya
05:58sa mga mamamayan
05:59at magaman madami
06:00ng allegations
06:01taban sa kanya.
06:02Malakas yung kanyang
06:02mga supporters
06:03o yung base niya.
06:04So, ang tanong na lamang
06:05ay kung ma...
06:07yung evidensya
06:08na lumabasak
06:08as representatives ngayon,
06:10sapat ba iyon upang
06:12ipakita doon
06:13sa mga mabatas na
06:14baga man suportado
06:14itong tao na ito,
06:15hindi nyo na pwede
06:16hindi anong evidensya
06:17o hindi nyo na pwede
06:18talikuran yung evidensya.
06:20At yung disenyo
06:21ng impeachment natin
06:22ay nakatoon talaga
06:23sa ganong pamamaraan
06:25o yung magpublic
06:26na pagpapakita
06:27ng evidensya,
06:28yung public
06:29na diskusyon,
06:30designed yun
06:30para tulungan
06:31ng isang mababatas
06:32na bumoto ayon
06:33sa kanilang konsensya
06:34at kung ano yung katotohanan
06:36hindi ultimately
06:37doon sa kanilang
06:37political consideration.
06:38Kasi nga,
06:39kung nari yan yung evidensya
06:40sa harap nila,
06:42masasabi ba talaga
06:43na hindi totoo
06:43yung mga paraatang?
06:45Attorney,
06:46hanggang kahapon,
06:46pinanindigan ng BC
06:47ang kanyang no-show stance
06:49sa impeachment na ito
06:50at patuloy ang pag-challenge
06:51niya sa process
06:52ng Justice Committee.
06:53May pending
06:54Supreme Court petition pa nga siya.
06:56What do you make of this
06:57as a lawyer
06:58at paano natin ito
06:59dapat basahin?
07:00So, unang po ay patas naman
07:02yung strategiya
07:03ni Vice President Duterte.
07:04Patas yung strategiya
07:06ng kanyang mga abogado
07:07na umakyat sa
07:08Korte Suprema
07:09dahil nga sa mga
07:11nakaraang taon
07:11lalo na sa since 2025,
07:14parang nakikita naman natin
07:15na yung Korte Suprema
07:16ay hindi naman
07:17nahigriya
07:18or parang
07:18nasa shy away
07:20from yung participating
07:21dito sa impeachment
07:22na ito.
07:23So, pumasok sila doon
07:25sa nakaraang impeachment
07:26laban kay Vice President.
07:27So, likitimang strategiya yun
07:28kung ako yung abogado.
07:30Ngunit, siguro,
07:31kailangan alalahan
07:32ni Vice President
07:33yung sabi mo, Ivan,
07:34sui generis ang impeachment.
07:35Hindi siya legal
07:36na proseso lamang,
07:37political siya.
07:38At ultimately,
07:39yung mamamayan,
07:40magde-decision yan.
07:41Yung ginagamit ba
07:42yung batas
07:43o yung mga legal na proseso
07:44upang iwasan
07:45yung katotohanan?
07:46Ginagamit ba
07:47yung kalakasan
07:48ng kanyang legal team
07:50upang iwasan
07:50na sagutin
07:51yung mga seryoso
07:52naman na tanong
07:53ukol sa kanyang fitness
07:54na magpatuloy
07:55sa pwesto.
07:56So, kung hindi man siya,
07:58magiging
07:58accountable
07:59sa mamamayan
08:01to,
08:02dahil sa paggamit
08:03ng mga legal proceedings,
08:05ultimately,
08:05magiging accountable siya
08:06sa mamamayan
08:07sa eleksyon
08:08o sa pagbaboto sa kanya
08:09at sa kanyang mga
08:10political allies
08:11at iba pang politiko
08:13na nasa kongreso ngayon.
08:14Attorney issues were raised
08:16on the Justice Committee's
08:17overreach
08:18na yung ginawa daw nila
08:19mini-trial na
08:20at labas sa kanilang mandato.
08:22Nandun din yung
08:23olegasyon ng pagmamadali.
08:24Minadali daw
08:25at may dalawang committee members
08:26nga kahapon
08:27na humirit ng isa pang hearing day sana
08:29para mabigyan daw
08:30ng pagkakataon
08:30ng bising sumagot.
08:32Generally,
08:32ano naman
08:33ang masasabi ninyo
08:34sa paghandle ng House Justice Committee
08:35sa naging mga hearing?
08:37Was there a haste?
08:38Did it adhere to the constitutional design
08:40sa kanilang mandato?
08:42Actually,
08:43sa usapan po
08:44ng mga constitutionalists
08:45ay parang
08:46ang tagal nga po
08:47ng proseso.
08:47Naka-ilang hearings po tayo,
08:49ilang minggu na po ito.
08:50At
08:51grabe po yung pag-iingat
08:53ng House of Representatives.
08:55Dinilimitahan yung mga tanong.
08:56So, siguro,
08:57on a first quick point lang,
09:00mukhang nag-iingat po
09:00yung House of Representatives.
09:02Sumunod talaga sila doon
09:03sa proseso.
09:04Pero pangalawa
09:05at siguro
09:06mas mahalaga
09:07sa sarili ng batas natin
09:09ang may kapangyarihan
09:10na mag-define
09:10ng sarili niyang proseso
09:11ay yung House of Representatives.
09:13Explicit po yun sa ating
09:14saligang batas
09:15na ang House of Representatives
09:16ay maglalabas ng
09:17rules of procedure nila
09:18para sa impeachment.
09:19At malaki yung paggalang
09:21na dinibigay ng ibang sangay
09:22ng pamahalaan doon
09:23sa disenyo
09:24ng House of Representatives.
09:26So, sumunod naman po
09:27doon sa kanilang proseso,
09:28ilang beses po
09:29nabigyan ng pagkakataon
09:30sa VP sana na magpakita.
09:32So, sa baso ko po,
09:33mukhang hindi naman po
09:34nag-depart
09:35from yung constitutional design
09:36yung ginawa
09:38ng House of Representatives.
09:38Attorney, yung BIR box,
09:41how significant is this?
09:42And should it have been open
09:44sa tingin ninyo?
09:45So, mahalaga siya ng ebidensya,
09:47I think, no?
09:48Yung importante ng
09:49importansya ng
09:52BIR tax returns ay
09:53mababangga kasi yun, eh.
09:55Doon sa ibang pang dokumento
09:56na lumabas na
09:57yung salen nga
09:58at yung discrepancy doon
09:59sa swelga ng vice president,
10:01nare-report ba yung income
10:02na iyon sa tax returns?
10:04Kasi kung hindi siya nare-report,
10:05bukod sa tax evasion,
10:07is siyang indikasyon
10:08na baka hindi legal
10:09yung source ng income.
10:10Yes.
10:10So, mahalaga sana siya makita.
10:12Ngunit,
10:13naitindihan ko rin na
10:14ayaw naman ng
10:14House of Representatives
10:15na kung bubuksan nila
10:16yung kahon na iyon,
10:17ay aakit tayo lahat
10:18sa Korte Suprema.
10:20So, kung nasatisfy naman
10:21na yung probable cause,
10:22baka mas mabuti,
10:23mas prudent,
10:24nasa Senado na natin
10:25tignan yung kahon na iyon.
10:27So,
10:27ito na naman tayo,
10:28attorney,
10:29sa interpretation ng word
10:30na fortwith.
10:32Kahapon po naglabas
10:33ang Supreme Court
10:33ng clarification
10:34sa ibig sabihin ito,
10:36dapat within reasonable
10:37time lang daw.
10:38Help us understand
10:39what the Supreme Court
10:40is trying to do
10:41at ano bang significance
10:41itong resolution ito.
10:43So, yung caveat po dito,
10:45ay hindi pa ko natin
10:46nakikita yung
10:46desisyon ng Korte Suprema.
10:48Naganalay po tayo lahat
10:49dito sa press briefer
10:50na inilabas nila kahapon.
10:52So, exciting ko makita
10:53kung ano mismo
10:54yung sinabi nila.
10:55I think yung nagiging
10:56punto lang po ng Korte
10:58ay yung fortwith
10:59na ginagamit
11:01ng mga opposition
11:02last year
11:02upang salihan yung Senado
11:04under yung presidency
11:05pa ni Chis Escudero,
11:06na magsimulan na kayo
11:08kagad nung paglilitis.
11:09Batay dun sa press release,
11:11mukhang ang sinasabi
11:11ng Korte Suprema
11:12ay hindi naman
11:13ibig sabihin yan agad-agad.
11:15Kailangan itake
11:15into consideration
11:16yung mga reasonable
11:19na delay
11:20sa paghahanda
11:21para sa proseso.
11:23So, siguro,
11:23ang masasabi ko na lamang po roon
11:25ay una
11:25mas mabuti po
11:26sa Senado
11:27na iwan yung tanong
11:28na iyon.
11:29At ibig sabihin po
11:30nun ay pangalawa
11:31dahil sinabi naman po
11:32ng Korte Suprema
11:33na moot na yung kaso,
11:35hindi na nila
11:35pinag-aawayan
11:36kasi na ibasura na nga
11:37yung unang impeachment.
11:39Then sana na
11:39nahimik yung Korte
11:40at nagpigil
11:41para magtinti
11:42upang hindi
11:43patuloy doon
11:44sa definition
11:45ng forthwith
11:46at hayaan yung mga
11:47sumusunod
11:48yung future
11:48ng mga Senado
11:49upang sila
11:50ang magbigay ng kahalagan doon.
11:51Dahil nga naman
11:52ang impeachment trial
11:53ay kanilang soul power.
11:55Nasa kanila yung kapangyarihan
11:56na iyon.
11:56Tsaka sakto po yung timing
11:57kung kailan nag bumoto na
12:00ang Justice Committee
12:01na may probable cause
12:03and just recently
12:04ang sinabi ni
12:05Senate President Soto
12:06ang forthwith
12:07para sa kanya
12:08ay agad-agad.
12:10Opo.
12:10At ito po yung pinapakita
12:12na danger
12:12ng pagsama po ng Korte
12:15dito sa proseso na ito.
12:16Yung tingin po kasi natin
12:18sa ating mga Korte
12:19lalo na po sa Korte Suprema
12:20ay neutral po.
12:21Hindi po nakikisama
12:22sa mga away na politikal
12:23at ang trabaho lamang po niya
12:25ay maglatag
12:26at mag-desisyon ay
12:27sa batas.
12:28Ngunit ito sa mga
12:29political na aktividades
12:30na ito
12:31gaya ng impeachment
12:31hindi po malinaw yung linya
12:33between politics
12:34at law.
12:35Magakay po yung overlap
12:36nila.
12:36Yes.
12:37And iniiwasan po natin
12:38yung pagkakataon
12:39na yung Korte ay
12:40nahahalo sa politika
12:41kasi yung long-term effect po niya
12:43di naman po sa kasalukuyan
12:45necessarily no
12:46but yung long-term effect niya
12:47ay bumababa yung respeto natin
12:49para nun sa Korte
12:50kasi nakikita natin siya
12:51na parang political player na lang.
12:53Yes.
12:53So, medyo unusual po
12:55I think yung ruling kahapon
12:57in the sense na
12:58kung nag-ingat po yung Korte
13:00or nag-teamnate
13:00na moot po yung kaso
13:01pwede po kasing tapos na roon eh.
13:04Pero mukhang yung timing po, no?
13:05Hindi po natin
13:06mapipigilan yung mamamayan
13:08kung questioning yung timing na yun.
13:10Yes.
13:11Professor,
13:12ang impeachment process
13:13ay isang accountability mechanism
13:14sa ating konstitusyon.
13:15Marami tayong mga problema
13:17obviously
13:18marami sa mga kababayan natin
13:19iniisip
13:20politika lang to
13:21o personal na away na lang nila to.
13:23Pero,
13:23let's go to the bottom line.
13:25Why should the Filipino people
13:26care about this impeachment?
13:28Hindi po tayo magkakaroon
13:30na mabubuting tinuno
13:32kung hindi po natin sila
13:33pananagutin
13:34sa kanilang mga ginagawa
13:35sa pwesto.
13:37Siguro po,
13:38ang reklamo natin
13:38sa gobyerno ay
13:39sa laki ng krisis.
13:41For example,
13:42na dulot mong gera
13:42sa Middle East
13:43at sa dami ng krisis
13:44na mga nahiharap natin
13:46sa nakaraang taon.
13:47Para bang yung gobyerno
13:48walang pakialam
13:49o hindi responsive.
13:50Pero,
13:51nagagaling po kasi yan
13:52doon sa sistema
13:53natin ngayon
13:54na parang hindi na natin
13:55pinananagot yung mga
13:56opisyal natin.
13:57Kahit anong gawin nila
13:58na kalokohan
14:00sa gobyerno
14:00para lang
14:01maging direksyon
14:02parang nananampalataya
14:03pa rin tayo
14:04sa kanila.
14:05So, yung mga sistema
14:06ng pananagutan
14:07yung mekanismo
14:08ng pananagutan
14:09paalalaan sa mga opisyal
14:10na kami yung boss ninyo.
14:12Pero,
14:12kung hindi natin
14:13gagamitin yung mga proseso
14:14na iyon
14:15then,
14:16bahahayaan natin
14:16itong sitwasyon
14:17na parang hindi
14:18nagpa-function yung
14:19pamahalaan.
14:20Mm-hmm.
14:21Very well said.
14:22Attorney Paulo Tamasin
14:23ng UP College of Law.
14:24Maraming maraming salamat
14:25po sa inyo.
14:26Magandang magandang pa.
14:27Maraming salamat.
14:28Ang mga isyong pinag-uusapan,
14:30lilinawin at hihibayin natin
14:31on record
14:32sa unang hirin.
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