La terza puntata ci porta dentro ad uno dei misteri ancora irrisolti della cronaca nera di Roma: l'omicidio di Eleonora Scroppo. Un cold case che ancora oggi le forze dell'ordine sperano di riaprire anche con l'intervento di chi sa e non ha ancora parlato.
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TVTrascrizione
00:00:18Our life is made of simple things and perhaps the most beautiful moments are when the
00:00:25In the evening you come home and you meet around the table with your family after a
00:00:32work day. That evening Eleonora, her husband Stefano, and their youngest son Andrea
00:00:44I'm at dinner watching the news. Eleonora is a fulfilled woman both in her private life and in her professional life.
00:00:56work. A happy marriage, a more than comfortable economic situation and a beautiful house in
00:01:10A residential neighborhood in northern Rome. In short, the life many would like to have.
00:01:22Eleonora's life seems like a dream that suddenly turns into a nightmare.
00:01:40On the evening of October 9, 1998, someone opened fire from the living room window. He shot and killed.
00:01:51Eleonora Scroppo. 23 years have passed, and the culprit has still not been caught.
00:02:12Tonight's case is an unsolved one.
00:02:38Good evening and welcome to Detective, the new Redoo program created in collaboration
00:02:43with the State Police. This evening we'll discuss an unsolved case, one of the most enigmatic cases
00:02:51in the history of Italian news. For this reason I ask you to pay the utmost attention,
00:02:58to follow it carefully.
00:03:04Because even if several years have passed, a detail, a particular could be
00:03:11important to reopen this case or even resolve it.
00:03:23But let's go back to that 9th October 1998. At the Ciampini Scroppo house they are sitting around the table
00:03:33For dinner, mother Eleonora, father Stefano, and the youngest son. The older one is at the pool.
00:03:39for water polo training.
00:03:42We sat down at the table. That evening we had decided to have fondue. Andrea, on his shoulders
00:03:49at the window and Eleonora facing the window and I was with my side facing the window.
00:03:58we were about to start eating and there was a shot.
00:04:06I was watching television, at that moment they were talking about Marta's case
00:04:13Russo, while I was watching television I saw the bottle of mineral water move.
00:04:22and there and then I thought that something had happened to the stove and it had generated something
00:04:29so in the meantime, however, the other blows also began to arrive.
00:04:37Eleonora collapsed on top of me and we still hadn't realized what was happening.
00:04:47Then looking up from her and looking towards the window, as well as I could look
00:04:54from everywhere else, I saw that there were holes in the window glass.
00:04:59So I screamed, they're shooting at us. I threw myself to the ground, carrying the body with me.
00:05:04of my wife. Andrea threw himself against the window wall. From that point there clearly
00:05:10It couldn't be seen. And we stood there waiting for more shots to come.
00:05:20Dr. De Simone, good evening. Today you are the police commissioner of Teramo. But at the time of the events...
00:05:26What role did he play?
00:05:28At that time I was the head of the homicide section of the flying squad of the Rome police headquarters.
00:05:34On the evening of October 9th, around 9 pm, where is she?
00:05:39But we were inside the office like every evening, even though it was already late.
00:05:44because it was an extremely operational section, we remained until late in the evening.
00:05:51They call. What do they tell you?
00:05:54We are told that shots were fired in Via Due Ponti, in the Cassia area,
00:06:01Rome North area, inside a complex on the same street and that two patrol cars were already
00:06:07were sent from the operations room and in particular they had helped a lady who had been
00:06:14hit by gunshots, who we learn later died at
00:06:19the hospital where she had been admitted.
00:06:33When you arrive at Via Due Ponti, what do you find in front of you?
00:06:39First of all, we find ourselves in a very large condominium, of a certain caliber, with terraced houses
00:06:48all fenced and delimited by individual gardens and with individual accesses for each of them
00:06:58and we find a lot of people, so we find relatives, local residents and other curious people
00:07:04who had rushed there after hearing the news of these gunshots.
00:07:15What are the first things you ask your men to do?
00:07:20But as soon as we arrived we put in place all those activities aimed at reconstructing the facts,
00:07:27then listening to the first people, doing the first inspection.
00:07:31We open the news with the latest mysterious crime in Rome, another real mystery,
00:07:36another apparently motiveless murder.
00:07:38Seven shots fired in rapid fire with a 7.65 on the ground floor of the villa at Via Due Ponti 225
00:07:46Rome.
00:07:47We arrive late in the evening, around 9.30, 10 and we find the victim in front of the gate
00:07:53a lot of confusion, there was a patrol car across the way, a policeman, I remember, who was preventing us from entering,
00:08:00several police lights, flashing, giving a terrible sense to the scene.
00:08:06I was among the first to arrive as a reporter with our photographer and I remember a cry shortly after
00:08:14which struck me very much and which remained in my heart, was the son to whom they said at that moment
00:08:19and your mother was unfortunately killed.
00:08:25She was a great mother, an excellent mother, loved by all, respected by all,
00:08:34let's say, she was an intelligent woman.
00:08:43For us she was the most important person, let's say, because she was the one who kept the whole family together.
00:08:50He loved my parents very much, us too.
00:08:54It was a point of reference.
00:08:59And whatever we didn't address to her, my father also cared a lot about it because she was a bit of a male
00:09:06that he hadn't had.
00:09:18For perceptive, very strong-willed, she was a person with whom we made many trips together,
00:09:27we've always gotten along very well, with the two couples, so to speak.
00:09:32He was then the person, perhaps, on whom the family relied a little more.
00:09:39And at a certain point she turns 50, the honor comes and I call her.
00:09:45She tells me, I'm very happy.
00:09:46I have two children, I was a mother, which was an important thing for her,
00:09:52raise children, enjoy them.
00:09:55Now I work and used to work in his insurance company.
00:10:01For me, life is happy, even if I'm turning 50.
00:10:05And so we parted.
00:10:11This is Eleonora.
00:10:13Eleonora's funeral was moving.
00:10:16The husband, the children, the relatives, the friends.
00:10:21But you were there too.
00:10:26Yes, we were there, and we were the ones who filmed the ceremony.
00:10:32We are almost always present when these ceremonies follow these criminal events.
00:10:38We are here precisely to verify that they cannot emerge,
00:10:42even in the normality of a religious rite,
00:10:45particular behaviors or attitudes held by people
00:10:51who may not even be entitled to be present at that moment.
00:10:56Another very touching moment was that of Eonora Scroppo's funeral.
00:11:01They took place a few days later in the Vigna Clara area.
00:11:06I went that morning and I hardly happened to attend a ceremony
00:11:11highly attended.
00:11:13There were lots of young people, kids, friends of the children.
00:11:16There was a compound but widespread pain.
00:11:20And I was struck by two elements that I still remember.
00:11:23The husband with a double ring on his finger, with her ring.
00:11:28And so it had a two-tone ring, in fact, when you looked at it from a distance.
00:11:32And then the discreet presence, but it was noticeable, especially to the eye of us crime reporters,
00:11:37of some investigators.
00:11:39They were there to understand if the murderer had not returned to the scene of the crime,
00:11:44but on the place of pain.
00:11:48In short, your hope was that someone, the murderer,
00:11:53was present during the ceremony
00:11:56and analyzing the images
00:12:03seeing frame after frame
00:12:06perhaps some particular attitude could be discerned,
00:12:11an attitude of nervousness.
00:12:13This is what you hope to see
00:12:17when are you filming this ceremony?
00:12:20Since this is a special ceremony,
00:12:24strictly private,
00:12:26beyond the possibility, however remote,
00:12:29to have overt behavior from someone
00:12:33which may denote a particular emotional involvement,
00:12:38It's still a moment in which you can focus well
00:12:41what is the family circle
00:12:44and the victim's friendships.
00:12:47In this work we start from the first inspection,
00:12:50the funerals.
00:12:51What leads are you starting to follow?
00:12:53And above all, what do you think of this murder?
00:12:58But initially, based on the elements collected
00:13:01in the immediate future,
00:13:03This murder was inexplicable to us.
00:13:06Already the first information we received
00:13:08from the same family members
00:13:11and the information we had
00:13:13through our official investigations,
00:13:16they allowed us to categorically exclude
00:13:18any connection with common crime
00:13:21and with organized crime.
00:13:22But other information immediately directed us
00:13:27towards Eleonora Scroppo's brother-in-law.
00:13:32At first we didn't know
00:13:34who could have had it in for her.
00:13:36So we said
00:13:39an ex-brother-in-law,
00:13:41who was my sister's husband,
00:13:42the little one, Miranda.
00:13:45We mentioned him as a person
00:13:47that he could harbor resentment
00:13:49towards us.
00:13:51They took note
00:13:52and they started to get busy
00:13:54to assess his position,
00:13:56etc., etc., etc.
00:14:00So, for the crime of Eleonora Scroppo
00:14:03there is a prime suspect.
00:14:06This is Eleonora's brother-in-law.
00:14:10What do they tell her?
00:14:12How did this track come about?
00:14:15But in the context of information activities
00:14:17that we begin immediately,
00:14:20we learn of some very strong contrasts
00:14:24inside Stefano Ciampini's agency
00:14:27with Eleonora Scroppo's ex-brother-in-law.
00:14:33The thought went immediately
00:14:36to a person, I'm talking about an ex-brother-in-law,
00:14:40because it had been like this for a short time
00:14:44a bit of this separation between brothers-in-law
00:14:48from a work point of view.
00:14:49So it's clear that that was the idea.
00:14:56We are clearly paying attention to this person.
00:14:59and his new partner
00:15:01and we carry out technical activities,
00:15:04so this person is put under wiretap
00:15:07and we still manage to exclude
00:15:10any responsibility of his
00:15:12because we find out that he has an alibi
00:15:15for the day of the crime
00:15:17and also through subsequent examinations
00:15:19what we do about sampling possible residues
00:15:22of gunpowder
00:15:23on his and his partner's clothes,
00:15:26all tests are negative.
00:15:30Then?
00:15:31Then we start focusing right away
00:15:34on the Scroppo family nucleus,
00:15:37especially on the eldest son
00:15:39who was the only absent member that evening
00:15:43inside the place where the crime had occurred,
00:15:45but we already exclude it immediately
00:15:48any responsibility of his
00:15:50because the boy was in the swimming pool
00:15:52to attend water polo courses
00:15:55where he often went.
00:16:03Initially they wanted to know
00:16:05where the other son was, for example,
00:16:07and he was told he was doing
00:16:10water polo training,
00:16:13they didn't need to go get it
00:16:16because after a little while it arrived,
00:16:17they sent someone to check
00:16:20that he was really there
00:16:21and then clearly there is no story.
00:16:29At the same time we also pay attention
00:16:30the entire remaining family unit,
00:16:33keeping in mind that the whole family
00:16:36Ciampini-Scroppo
00:16:37she was engaged in this big business
00:16:41of insurance agency
00:16:43with a significant volume of business and contacts
00:16:48and which could have provoked a reaction
00:16:50that could lead to such a serious event.
00:16:53In that context
00:16:54she hypothesized
00:16:57maybe the motive,
00:17:00a question of money,
00:17:01a behavior
00:17:02correct or incorrect,
00:17:04It's not up to us to say,
00:17:06but someone who had it
00:17:08with Stefano and with Eleonora.
00:17:11In the end?
00:17:12In the end, this track too
00:17:15it was abandoned
00:17:16because from monitoring
00:17:18which lasted a long time,
00:17:19with a large commitment of resources,
00:17:21because I keep repeating,
00:17:22the turnover
00:17:25of the agency was very high,
00:17:28we abandoned
00:17:29because we saw
00:17:30that there was nothing
00:17:32that could lead us back
00:17:33to a connection hypothesis
00:17:35with work activity
00:17:37of the Scroppo-Ciampini family.
00:17:41Another lead you're following,
00:17:44On the contrary,
00:17:45before asking this,
00:17:48I wish he would tell me something
00:17:50about nature
00:17:51of this crime,
00:17:53that is, this person who arrives
00:17:54he fires seven shots from the window,
00:17:56what does she understand
00:18:01trying to hypothesize
00:18:03the reasons
00:18:05that drive this man
00:18:07or this woman,
00:18:09we don't know,
00:18:10to shoot at
00:18:11a family
00:18:12what's at the table for dinner?
00:18:14Us,
00:18:15for the modus operandi,
00:18:18we're there right away
00:18:19focused
00:18:20on a hypothesis
00:18:22of impulsive murder.
00:18:26Definitely a person
00:18:27that in carrying out
00:18:31this murderous action
00:18:33he had a discharge
00:18:36of something
00:18:37that was brooding against
00:18:38the family
00:18:39who brought it
00:18:40even to overexpose oneself
00:18:41so that we don't forget
00:18:43that the person
00:18:45he was in the garden
00:18:46within
00:18:47of a house
00:18:49which in turn
00:18:49was inside
00:18:50of a district
00:18:50inhabited by several families.
00:18:55Then we'll talk
00:18:56of the track
00:18:57the one tied
00:18:59to possible
00:19:00extramarital affairs.
00:19:02But first
00:19:03I would like to do it for you
00:19:04listen
00:19:05that
00:19:05who thinks
00:19:07our profiler
00:19:09regard
00:19:10this crime.
00:19:12Ginclemente
00:19:13was
00:19:14for twenty years
00:19:15a profiler
00:19:17of the FBI
00:19:18it was in Quantico
00:19:20in Virginia
00:19:21Today
00:19:21he is an author
00:19:23television producer
00:19:24he is the author
00:19:25moreover
00:19:26of a television series
00:19:27very famous
00:19:28which is Criminal Minds
00:19:29agitatedly
00:19:30we have
00:19:32given
00:19:32at your request
00:19:33only
00:19:33the elements
00:19:34objective
00:19:35Not
00:19:36the people
00:19:38suspected
00:19:39In short
00:19:39the slopes
00:19:40investigative
00:19:41that was
00:19:42following
00:19:42the Italian police
00:19:44I would like to make her feel
00:19:46what he says
00:19:50murder of Eleonora Scroppo
00:19:52murder of Eleonora Scroppo
00:19:54victimology
00:19:55Italian woman
00:19:5750 years old
00:19:57a low-risk life
00:19:59and a low-risk environment
00:20:00in safety
00:20:01of one's own home
00:20:05a quiet neighborhood
00:20:06a neighborhood
00:20:07low crime
00:20:08it's about
00:20:09of six residences
00:20:10semi-detached houses
00:20:11so it's a place
00:20:12of the crime
00:20:12not isolated
00:20:13the murder occurs
00:20:16at dinner time
00:20:16and this
00:20:17gives the maximum possibility
00:20:18to the murderer
00:20:19that the victim is at home
00:20:20but also the maximum possibility
00:20:22for a presence
00:20:23of other victims
00:20:23or of witnesses
00:20:24in the area
00:20:27there have been
00:20:28seven shots
00:20:29shot through
00:20:30the window
00:20:30five shots
00:20:32they missed
00:20:32all the others
00:20:33potential victims
00:20:34and the husband
00:20:35and the son
00:20:35they were
00:20:36witnesses
00:20:36of the shooting
00:20:37them too
00:20:38they were potential victims
00:20:41he heard
00:20:42what he said
00:20:42Clemente Gin
00:20:43there is one thing
00:20:44that I would like
00:20:45underline
00:20:46and I would like her
00:20:47commented on it
00:20:49and expressed
00:20:50his opinion
00:20:51Clemente Gin
00:20:52he says
00:20:52them too
00:20:53they were potential
00:20:54victims
00:20:56shares
00:20:56but for
00:20:58the modus operandi
00:20:59and all the elements
00:21:01that we have collected
00:21:01during the inspection
00:21:02especially in character
00:21:03ballistic
00:21:04the distances
00:21:06of shooting
00:21:06the modalities
00:21:07in which they are
00:21:08the shots were verified
00:21:09I agree
00:21:11with Gin Clemente
00:21:13That
00:21:13at least
00:21:14the perpetrator of the crime
00:21:16he accepted
00:21:17the risk
00:21:18that they could
00:21:19even being injured
00:21:20other people
00:21:21and above all
00:21:23we have no elements
00:21:24which make us believe
00:21:25that there was
00:21:26a particular
00:21:27motive
00:21:28addressed
00:21:29exclusively
00:21:30against Eleonora Scoppo
00:21:31and not against
00:21:32the whole family
00:21:33and then we go back
00:21:34to the track
00:21:36that we had left
00:21:37pending
00:21:38the one that concerns
00:21:40a bit
00:21:40the relationship
00:21:41between Eleonora
00:21:42and her husband
00:21:43you check
00:21:45if there was
00:21:46a relationship
00:21:47in progress
00:21:48or of Eleanor
00:21:50or Stephen's
00:21:51extramarital?
00:21:53we excluded it
00:21:54immediately
00:21:55because from all the elements
00:21:57collected
00:21:58the family
00:21:59it appeared to us
00:22:00a united family
00:22:02a happy family
00:22:03a family
00:22:04above all
00:22:04of relationships
00:22:06transparent
00:22:07and in particular
00:22:08between Ciampini
00:22:10and Eleonora
00:22:11which was
00:22:13of a morality
00:22:14mirrored
00:22:19they were
00:22:20a happy family
00:22:21because they had realized
00:22:23their dreams
00:22:24she
00:22:24to have
00:22:25of the children
00:22:27that was a thing
00:22:27that he wanted very much
00:22:29he had his own circle
00:22:30of friends
00:22:30he lived well
00:22:32with the family
00:22:32he lived well
00:22:33with her husband
00:22:34everything worked
00:22:36everything was fine
00:22:37we remained
00:22:39shocked
00:22:40of the fact that she
00:22:41was killed
00:22:42and let it be
00:22:43happened
00:22:44in this way
00:22:45because there wasn't
00:22:47a logical reason
00:22:48for this to happen
00:22:52but then
00:22:53who killed
00:22:54Eleonora Scroppo
00:22:56every track
00:22:58that you follow
00:23:00it doesn't take you
00:23:01anywhere
00:23:02effectively
00:23:04it's a murder
00:23:04not easy
00:23:06we find
00:23:07all doors closed
00:23:08everywhere
00:23:09we address ourselves
00:23:11but how does it happen
00:23:12Often
00:23:13When
00:23:14hope
00:23:15it is lacking
00:23:15there is a spark
00:23:17there is a new hypothesis
00:23:19and this new hypothesis
00:23:20it's part of itself
00:23:21from the Ciampini family
00:23:22in particular
00:23:24from the little son
00:23:25that tells
00:23:27even through
00:23:28his girlfriend
00:23:29of a relationship
00:23:31that the same
00:23:33had as a girl
00:23:34with dad
00:23:35in the background
00:23:37sexual
00:23:37which involved
00:23:40also as a consequence
00:23:41a strong jealousy
00:23:43of the parent
00:23:44towards
00:23:45of the relationship
00:23:46which he had established
00:23:47with the young man
00:23:49Ciampini
00:23:52a dad
00:23:54who had abused
00:23:56because these are the terms
00:23:58of the story
00:23:58from what I understand
00:24:00of the daughter
00:24:02he had an attachment
00:24:04morbid
00:24:05and when the daughter
00:24:07he gets engaged
00:24:08with the youngest child
00:24:10by Eleonora
00:24:11and Stefano
00:24:12this jealousy
00:24:14he could have done it
00:24:15blind
00:24:16produce
00:24:18an attitude
00:24:20of madness
00:24:21like that one
00:24:21that is
00:24:23revealed
00:24:24that evening
00:24:25on the way
00:24:26Two Bridges
00:24:27the moment
00:24:29there is
00:24:30it's enough
00:24:31in his opinion
00:24:33the moment
00:24:34it was enough
00:24:35in the moment
00:24:35in which
00:24:36the girl
00:24:37it doesn't tell us much
00:24:39of what he had suffered
00:24:40as a young man
00:24:41but when he tells us
00:24:42of how
00:24:43the dad
00:24:44opposed
00:24:45the relationship
00:24:46who had
00:24:46with Ciampini
00:24:47he didn't share it
00:24:49in a manner
00:24:49own
00:24:49he hated it
00:24:51this boy
00:24:52he didn't want to
00:24:53that there was
00:24:54this attendance
00:24:55and this relationship
00:24:57it's the right track
00:24:58it's not the right track
00:25:00why us
00:25:00here too
00:25:01we carry out
00:25:03a job in hand
00:25:04and we carry out
00:25:06technical activities
00:25:07but
00:25:08here too
00:25:09we can't
00:25:10to land
00:25:12to give consistency
00:25:13evidentiary
00:25:14to this hypothesis
00:25:20we were there
00:25:21in front of
00:25:21to a true mystery
00:25:23of those
00:25:23that in the 90s
00:25:25they were already used to it
00:25:26with the case
00:25:27of Diapoma
00:25:27and of Olgiata
00:25:28this had
00:25:29moreover
00:25:30the unpredictability
00:25:33and then
00:25:34Dr. De Simone
00:25:35let's go back
00:25:35per day
00:25:37where it comes
00:25:37killed
00:25:38on that October 9th
00:25:39of 1998
00:25:41someone
00:25:42has reached
00:25:43the garden
00:25:44in front
00:25:45the window
00:25:45which gives
00:25:46on the dining room
00:25:48and this someone
00:25:49shoot
00:25:52seven shots
00:25:54doesn't leave
00:25:55no trace
00:25:56if not
00:25:57these seven
00:25:58shell casings
00:25:58me at this point
00:26:00I would like
00:26:01make them feel
00:26:02precisely on the dynamics
00:26:04of the crime
00:26:05the point of view
00:26:07of this profiler
00:26:08that for 20 years
00:26:09was
00:26:10in the app
00:26:12FBI
00:26:13we meet
00:26:15in front of
00:26:15to a killer
00:26:16disorganized
00:26:17and the presence
00:26:18of the seven
00:26:18shell casings
00:26:18found nearby
00:26:19at the window
00:26:20they indicate
00:26:20low competence
00:26:21criminal
00:26:22because those
00:26:23shell casings
00:26:23they could
00:26:23to lead back
00:26:24to the weapon
00:26:24of the crime
00:26:29the fragment
00:26:30of lead
00:26:31indicates that
00:26:31the killer
00:26:32he hit
00:26:33the grill
00:26:33metallic
00:26:34with at least
00:26:35a shot
00:26:35and then
00:26:36he's a shooter
00:26:36not expert
00:26:38the lack
00:26:39of any
00:26:40attempt
00:26:40of entry
00:26:41forced
00:26:41or robbery
00:26:42indicates that
00:26:43the goal
00:26:43that was it
00:26:44to hurt
00:26:44or kill
00:26:48Eleanor
00:26:49she was hit
00:26:49for the first time
00:26:50in the part
00:26:51superior
00:26:51right
00:26:51of the chest
00:26:52he rotated
00:26:53his body
00:26:54distant
00:26:54from the threat
00:26:55and it was
00:26:55then hit
00:26:56on the shoulder
00:26:56left
00:26:57a bullet
00:26:58has reached
00:26:59the chair
00:26:59of the husband
00:26:59three more
00:27:00they have reached
00:27:01the table
00:27:02and a bullet
00:27:03he hit
00:27:03the gate
00:27:04of metal
00:27:05of the window
00:27:05the killer
00:27:10he shot
00:27:10directly
00:27:11to Eleanor
00:27:12and he didn't shoot
00:27:13to her husband
00:27:13or to the son
00:27:14that they were
00:27:14closer
00:27:14at the window
00:27:15this means
00:27:16that Eleonora
00:27:17it was his goal
00:27:18expected
00:27:19Eleanor
00:27:20represented
00:27:21the target
00:27:21of his
00:27:22personal aggression
00:27:24what does she think?
00:27:26but I think
00:27:27that this person
00:27:30he shot
00:27:32picking up
00:27:33the occasion
00:27:34that presented itself to him
00:27:35at that moment
00:27:35the first two shots
00:27:36that have been
00:27:38probably
00:27:38those shot
00:27:39closer up
00:27:40and more shells
00:27:40then they were
00:27:41found
00:27:42within
00:27:42of the two vases
00:27:43on the windowsill
00:27:44that the proof
00:27:45that have been
00:27:45shot from a distance
00:27:46close-up
00:27:47they hit
00:27:48Eleanor
00:27:48the others
00:27:49they were
00:27:49shot
00:27:50from a distance
00:27:51greater
00:27:51Therefore
00:27:52almost in an action
00:27:53of retreat
00:27:54of the killer
00:27:55what's up to me
00:27:56saying
00:27:56this person
00:27:57once
00:27:57shot
00:27:59and killed
00:27:59and hit
00:28:00Eleanor
00:28:01keep shooting
00:28:03simply
00:28:03to create a diversion
00:28:05to escape
00:28:06but in reality
00:28:06his goal
00:28:07he reached it
00:28:08for which
00:28:08in her opinion
00:28:10the goal
00:28:11of the murderer
00:28:12it was to kill
00:28:13Eleanor
00:28:14and then
00:28:15Dr. De Simone
00:28:16we remain
00:28:16concentrates
00:28:17on this
00:28:17district
00:28:19of Via Due Ponti
00:28:20and on how
00:28:21the killer
00:28:22has arrived
00:28:24up to that window
00:28:26what do you imagine?
00:28:28but let's imagine
00:28:29that this person
00:28:30he is a person
00:28:31that he was able to
00:28:32to move
00:28:33in a manner
00:28:33very easy
00:28:34within
00:28:35of this
00:28:36district
00:28:37of this group
00:28:39of villas
00:28:39where we ourselves
00:28:41in the immediate future
00:28:41we found
00:28:42difficulty
00:28:43to orient ourselves
00:28:44among the various
00:28:44paths
00:28:45and courtyards
00:28:46interiors
00:28:48and above all
00:28:50we believe
00:28:51that he was aware
00:28:52both of the streets
00:28:53of entrance
00:28:54that of the streets
00:28:55of escape
00:28:55a power plant
00:28:56principal
00:28:57and a secondary one
00:28:59with a hashtag
00:29:00smaller
00:29:00that gave
00:29:01in the part
00:29:01behind
00:29:05a stranger
00:29:06that he had entered
00:29:07in here
00:29:08to commit
00:29:09the crime
00:29:10he would not have had
00:29:11ease
00:29:12to go out
00:29:13At that time
00:29:14the exit
00:29:15principal
00:29:16it was then
00:29:17the exit
00:29:17Where
00:29:18more easily
00:29:19could enter
00:29:20someone
00:29:20and he could
00:29:21to be seen
00:29:22the exit
00:29:23Instead
00:29:23To the right
00:29:26of the pedestrian
00:29:27the gate
00:29:28the famous
00:29:28hashtag
00:29:29pedestrian
00:29:29it was first of all
00:29:31a gate
00:29:32who had
00:29:33a key
00:29:33consequentially
00:29:34it could have been
00:29:36open
00:29:36only
00:29:37with a key
00:29:38overtaken
00:29:39it was used
00:29:40of the time
00:29:41Surely
00:29:42for which
00:29:42an escape
00:29:43on that side
00:29:44there
00:29:44it wasn't
00:29:45feasible
00:29:46but above all
00:29:47why do we have to
00:29:47calculate
00:29:48the times
00:29:49here it was
00:29:50question
00:29:50Truly
00:29:51of seconds
00:29:52I believe
00:29:53That
00:29:53the only one
00:29:54person
00:29:55that could
00:29:56absolutely
00:29:57to do something
00:29:58of this kind
00:29:59where you go
00:29:59enter
00:30:00and go out
00:30:01from a garage
00:30:02to the other
00:30:02without any
00:30:03I disturb
00:30:04ten seconds
00:30:05After
00:30:06we were there
00:30:07already everyone
00:30:07how many out
00:30:11there is another one
00:30:12given that it goes
00:30:12underlined
00:30:13the time
00:30:14at that time
00:30:14the people
00:30:16I am home
00:30:16for the scene
00:30:17and then
00:30:17the risk
00:30:18for this person
00:30:19to be
00:30:20discovery
00:30:21it was high
00:30:24Surely
00:30:24and this is what we
00:30:25strengthens even more
00:30:27in the belief
00:30:28that this person
00:30:28to hire
00:30:30this risk
00:30:31so high
00:30:32to be seen
00:30:33from someone
00:30:33had a perfect
00:30:35knowledge
00:30:36of the territory
00:30:37on which
00:30:37he was
00:30:38moving
00:30:39just think
00:30:40that only
00:30:42a few minutes
00:30:44Before
00:30:44some gunshots
00:30:45it had been
00:30:47the brother-in-law
00:30:47by Renato
00:30:48the Scoppa
00:30:48to ask
00:30:49a lemon
00:30:49and then
00:30:50he took a risk
00:30:51also to do
00:30:52this meeting
00:30:53the brother-in-law
00:30:54not that one
00:30:56on which
00:30:57you worked
00:30:58that you suspected
00:30:59another brother-in-law
00:31:01who lives
00:31:01inside the district
00:31:02who also lives there
00:31:03inside the district
00:31:07the episode
00:31:08my brother-in-law's
00:31:10which is
00:31:11let's say
00:31:12the companion
00:31:13the new companion
00:31:15my sister-in-law's
00:31:16of the smallest
00:31:18that is gone
00:31:19to ask
00:31:21a lemon
00:31:21in the moment
00:31:23in which they
00:31:24they had already
00:31:25sitting at the table
00:31:26and consequently
00:31:28he came out
00:31:30from one
00:31:30from one of the villas
00:31:32to go
00:31:33and they were not
00:31:34they were not close
00:31:35and they are those
00:31:36more distant
00:31:36that route there
00:31:38since everything
00:31:39it happened
00:31:40a few minutes before
00:31:42it's clear
00:31:43that would have
00:31:43should have
00:31:45cross
00:31:46someone
00:31:47Surely
00:31:48In short
00:31:48Not
00:31:50it wasn't
00:31:51it wasn't possible
00:31:51Not
00:31:52don't see anyone
00:31:56an outside person
00:31:57it's impossible
00:31:58why you need to know
00:31:59here
00:32:00you have to open it anyway
00:32:01the gate
00:32:01you have to climb over it
00:32:02At that time
00:32:02and then you need to know
00:32:04that behind here
00:32:04there is a garden
00:32:05you have to pass
00:32:06for the garage
00:32:07where are there
00:32:08the machines
00:32:08parked
00:32:09that is, if you don't know
00:32:11you can't get there
00:32:12back here
00:32:12and not even climb over
00:32:14because over there
00:32:15there is an embankment
00:32:16the wall
00:32:18quite tall
00:32:19you can't get there
00:32:20you must have a ladder
00:32:21to be able to go
00:32:22on the other side
00:32:23so it wasn't possible
00:32:24he was a person
00:32:25which he knew very well
00:32:26the condominium
00:32:27and then
00:32:28since we went out
00:32:29right away
00:32:29above all
00:32:29my husband and I
00:32:31immediately
00:32:32how did he do it?
00:32:33escape
00:32:34and nobody saw it
00:32:35at least arrive
00:32:36he had to have in his hand
00:32:37a gun
00:32:38a rifle
00:32:38something
00:32:39a gun
00:32:40I think it was
00:32:41the killer
00:32:48it was in this garden
00:32:51from the afternoon
00:32:53from the afternoon
00:32:53or arrived
00:32:55half an hour before
00:32:56In short
00:32:56he was there waiting
00:32:58the right moment
00:33:00we absolutely believe
00:33:02no
00:33:02he was there
00:33:04the time needed
00:33:06to be able to consume
00:33:07the criminal action
00:33:09but immediately after
00:33:10he had the problem
00:33:11to be able to move away
00:33:13without being seen
00:33:14at this point
00:33:15Dr. De Simone
00:33:16let's hear it again
00:33:18our
00:33:19Gim Clemente
00:33:20what we asked him
00:33:22is to do
00:33:23a first profile
00:33:25of this
00:33:26murderer
00:33:27one thing
00:33:29I would like to point out
00:33:30once again
00:33:32Gim Clemente
00:33:33he doesn't know
00:33:34the investigative leads
00:33:36the suspects
00:33:38he wanted
00:33:38to have only
00:33:39the data
00:33:40objective
00:33:42the question
00:33:43that we asked him
00:33:44And
00:33:45who is the killer
00:33:47a first profile
00:33:48we hear
00:33:53the first profile
00:33:54of the murderer
00:33:55that's it
00:33:55of a criminal
00:33:56unsophisticated
00:33:57it could be in him
00:33:58evident
00:33:59a drastic change
00:34:00in his behavior
00:34:01noticed by his family
00:34:02from friends
00:34:03and from the neighbors
00:34:04after the murder
00:34:05the killer
00:34:06he might have left
00:34:07the air immediately
00:34:08after the murder
00:34:09to hide
00:34:09the murder weapon
00:34:10and to establish
00:34:11an alibi
00:34:12distant
00:34:13from the scene
00:34:13of the crime
00:34:14he might have left
00:34:15the area
00:34:16for an emergency
00:34:16sudden
00:34:17he heard
00:34:20what do you think?
00:34:22I think that
00:34:23On the contrary
00:34:24I ask
00:34:24if Gim Clemente
00:34:26you already have it
00:34:27knowledge
00:34:28of the further
00:34:29investigative lead
00:34:30that we have
00:34:31followed
00:34:31I can guarantee you
00:34:32that we don't have
00:34:33said nothing
00:34:34also because
00:34:34he didn't want to
00:34:35minimally
00:34:36have none
00:34:36indication
00:34:37by
00:34:38of work
00:34:38made by the police
00:34:39Italian
00:34:40in this specific case
00:34:41but from this question
00:34:42I deduce that
00:34:43he appreciated
00:34:44what he said
00:34:45Why
00:34:45what in reality
00:34:47it happens
00:34:48it's something
00:34:50what does it have to do with
00:34:51with
00:34:52the hypothesis
00:34:53that throws
00:34:54Gim Clemente
00:34:59and since then
00:35:00we're going back
00:35:01to his
00:35:01investigation
00:35:02What
00:35:03happens
00:35:04happens
00:35:05That
00:35:06suddenly
00:35:08the 21st
00:35:08of October
00:35:09we have
00:35:10a fact
00:35:11unexpected
00:35:12a condominium owner
00:35:13of the district
00:35:15in which
00:35:15they had the scroppo
00:35:16he introduces himself
00:35:18from us
00:35:18and in a manner
00:35:19confidential
00:35:21he tells us
00:35:22of a subject
00:35:24that he too
00:35:24he is a condominium owner
00:35:25moreover
00:35:25inhabitant
00:35:26in the villa
00:35:27lying
00:35:28to that
00:35:28of the scroppo
00:35:29that would have
00:35:30nourished
00:35:31for years
00:35:32a feeling
00:35:33of envy
00:35:34towards
00:35:35of this family
00:35:36for questions
00:35:38relevant
00:35:39coexistence
00:35:40within
00:35:40of the same
00:35:41condominium
00:35:46the neighbor
00:35:47at home
00:35:47of Melonora
00:35:48it wasn't
00:35:49a person
00:35:50very sociable
00:35:51we didn't see it
00:35:52almonst never
00:35:52we didn't frequent him
00:35:53never
00:35:54even at meetings
00:35:55of condominium
00:35:56I think it is
00:35:56happened
00:35:57only once
00:35:58also because
00:35:59these villas
00:36:00when we entered it
00:36:00they were new
00:36:01Therefore
00:36:02he was
00:36:03the first tenant
00:36:04and us too
00:36:05owner
00:36:06let's say
00:36:06he didn't answer
00:36:07not even if
00:36:08you rang the intercom
00:36:08to ask him something
00:36:10or if
00:36:11they were playing
00:36:12the postman
00:36:13he didn't open
00:36:14to no one
00:36:15he never went out
00:36:16he was a person
00:36:17rather strange
00:36:18and Melonora
00:36:19he had mentioned it to me
00:36:20every now and again
00:36:20when we talked
00:36:21so much more
00:36:22and the less
00:36:22in our phone calls
00:36:24or in ours
00:36:25meetings
00:36:26at dinner
00:36:27and he had mentioned it to me
00:36:28that is precisely
00:36:29as they
00:36:30they had
00:36:31four villas
00:36:32in this complex
00:36:33they could a little
00:36:34decide for them
00:36:35all condominium things
00:36:37I don't know
00:36:38the ignition
00:36:38of the radiators
00:36:40condominium fees
00:36:41they had the majority
00:36:43he says
00:36:44there is my neighbor
00:36:45who is furious
00:36:46for this thing
00:36:47and we often argue
00:36:53the episode
00:36:54what he did
00:36:55Truly
00:36:56he made it arrive
00:36:58at the limit
00:36:59I think it was
00:37:00a bill
00:37:01a bill
00:37:02of the water
00:37:03for the condominium
00:37:05Of
00:37:06over 10 million
00:37:07which clearly
00:37:09has
00:37:11bothered
00:37:13to everyone
00:37:13something
00:37:14which was
00:37:15accidentally
00:37:16happened
00:37:16a breakup
00:37:17of a pipe
00:37:18in one of the villas
00:37:19had caused
00:37:21a damage
00:37:22of 10 million
00:37:23of water
00:37:26initially
00:37:27we all paid
00:37:28pro rata
00:37:29so as not to make us
00:37:30to detach
00:37:30the supply
00:37:31but then
00:37:33we could have
00:37:34charge
00:37:35All
00:37:35to the person
00:37:36that he had had
00:37:37the break
00:37:38the assembly
00:37:40decided
00:37:41to let it go
00:37:42also because
00:37:42it had happened
00:37:43to the first villa
00:37:44it could have happened
00:37:45one of the others
00:37:45Therefore
00:37:46but
00:37:47this fact
00:37:48he did yes
00:37:49that maybe someone
00:37:51may have been
00:37:53worried
00:37:54Why
00:37:55had paid
00:37:56that million and three
00:37:57and instead
00:37:58he shouldn't have
00:38:00pay it
00:38:00because in fact
00:38:01he wasn't waiting for us
00:38:02but he was waiting
00:38:03to those who had suffered
00:38:05the damage
00:38:05him
00:38:06probably
00:38:08Not
00:38:09he wasn't sailing
00:38:10in their
00:38:10he was a character actor
00:38:12in the cinema
00:38:13he had done yes
00:38:14of the films
00:38:15as
00:38:15at the level
00:38:17of appearance
00:38:18or anyway
00:38:18always of
00:38:19killer parts
00:38:20this is a
00:38:22of those things
00:38:22That
00:38:23Truly
00:38:23they could be
00:38:25taken into consideration
00:38:27and this
00:38:28Surely
00:38:28he unleashed it on him
00:38:29maybe everything
00:38:31that hatred
00:38:32who had
00:38:32towards
00:38:33of our family
00:38:34for better or for worse
00:38:35Unfortunately
00:38:35we were here
00:38:36in four families
00:38:37we occupied four villas
00:38:39and consequently
00:38:40the majority
00:38:41in the
00:38:41in meetings
00:38:43of condominium
00:38:44in decisions
00:38:44of the condominium
00:38:45they were a bit
00:38:47for our benefit
00:38:55for which
00:38:56this neighbor
00:38:56at home
00:38:57asks for help
00:38:58to yours
00:39:00confidential source
00:39:01For
00:39:02let's say
00:39:03create an alliance
00:39:04against
00:39:05the family
00:39:07Scroppo
00:39:07Ciampini
00:39:08who had
00:39:08the majority
00:39:09condominium
00:39:10everything is normal here
00:39:12Yes
00:39:12but he
00:39:14being a person
00:39:15very introverted
00:39:16he doesn't have the capacity
00:39:18to assert
00:39:19his claims
00:39:19and to externalize
00:39:20these feelings
00:39:21and then asks
00:39:22the support
00:39:23of the other condominium owner
00:39:25which comes to tell us
00:39:26all this
00:39:27but it's not just this
00:39:28at a certain point
00:39:30this source
00:39:31he tells us
00:39:32That
00:39:32this person
00:39:34goes beyond
00:39:35knowing that he
00:39:37he is a collector
00:39:39of weapons
00:39:40he's starting to get interested
00:39:41that is, the confidential source
00:39:42Yes
00:39:43he's starting to get interested
00:39:44near him
00:39:45for finding
00:39:46of a gun
00:39:48but not a gun
00:39:49common
00:39:49but a gun
00:39:50untraceable
00:39:51the one that we
00:39:52let's call a weapon
00:39:53clandestine
00:39:54so with serial number
00:39:55to braise
00:40:01our neighbor
00:40:04at home
00:40:04the one who shared
00:40:05with us
00:40:06the little house
00:40:07of a semi-detached house
00:40:08he had asked him
00:40:09several times
00:40:09when we spoke
00:40:12of problems
00:40:13condominiums
00:40:14to get him
00:40:16a weapon
00:40:16unofficially
00:40:18with the silencer
00:40:20and in this
00:40:22declaration
00:40:24it was also written
00:40:25That
00:40:25this person
00:40:28he hated us
00:40:30and nourished
00:40:31towards us
00:40:33a strong resentment
00:40:39for which
00:40:40the neighbor
00:40:41at home
00:40:41asks
00:40:42a gun
00:40:44under the counter
00:40:45without serial number
00:40:47to yours
00:40:48confidential source
00:40:49and the source
00:40:50confidential
00:40:51logically
00:40:52he tells you
00:40:53everything
00:40:53at that point
00:40:55listen
00:40:57the neighbor
00:40:58at home
00:40:58he confirms
00:40:59these disagreements
00:41:01absolutely
00:41:02No
00:41:02he denies
00:41:03categorically
00:41:04of having had
00:41:05any type
00:41:06of problem
00:41:08or of misunderstanding
00:41:10with the family
00:41:11with which
00:41:11entertains
00:41:13no relationships
00:41:14let's say
00:41:15tight
00:41:16but normally
00:41:17neighborhood
00:41:17non-confrontational
00:41:19non-confrontational
00:41:20then it arrives
00:41:21the moment
00:41:21in which
00:41:22she asks
00:41:23to this neighbor
00:41:24at home
00:41:24to speak
00:41:25of this gun
00:41:26that he would have
00:41:27asked
00:41:28to yours
00:41:29confidential source
00:41:31he confirms?
00:41:33denies
00:41:33here too
00:41:34this circumstance
00:41:36specifying
00:41:37that he
00:41:37he never had
00:41:38no weapons
00:41:39and that it wasn't
00:41:40in no way
00:41:42interested
00:41:43to get it
00:41:44so he denies
00:41:44categorically
00:41:45this fact
00:41:46she
00:41:46he doesn't believe
00:41:48to a word
00:41:48of that
00:41:49what does he say?
00:41:49this neighbor
00:41:50at home
00:41:50I err?
00:41:51but based on
00:41:52to the information
00:41:53that we had
00:41:53received
00:41:54Surely
00:41:56we wanted
00:41:57see us
00:41:58even clearer
00:41:59at that point
00:42:00what does he do?
00:42:01let's make an interception
00:42:02environmental
00:42:03and telephone
00:42:04what does he discover?
00:42:05that during
00:42:05the whole period
00:42:06in which we have
00:42:07carried out the wiretaps
00:42:08telephone
00:42:08it has never been
00:42:10commented
00:42:12or taken
00:42:13under consideration
00:42:14death
00:42:15by Eleonora Scroppo
00:42:17no comments
00:42:18no reference
00:42:19to this episode
00:42:20and then above all
00:42:21the poor
00:42:24communication
00:42:25among the components
00:42:26of this family
00:42:27in their relationships
00:42:29newspapers
00:42:34this neighbor
00:42:35at home
00:42:35he had an alibi
00:42:38he's an alibi
00:42:39he provided it
00:42:40saying that
00:42:42at that moment
00:42:43where he had been
00:42:45perpetrated
00:42:45the murder
00:42:46by Eleonora Scroppo
00:42:47he wasn't
00:42:48within
00:42:49of the district
00:42:50why he had gone
00:42:51at
00:42:52a neighbor
00:42:53ATM
00:42:53to carry out
00:42:55a withdrawal
00:43:10but adds
00:43:12then subsequently
00:43:13that fails
00:43:14to do
00:43:15the withdrawal
00:43:15because he notices
00:43:17shortly before
00:43:17of not having behind
00:43:19the card
00:43:19of the ATM
00:43:20we check
00:43:23that this ATM
00:43:24It is located approximately
00:43:26two kilometers
00:43:27away
00:43:27from the area
00:43:28and immediately
00:43:29it seems strange to us
00:43:30beyond
00:43:31the circumstance
00:43:32of not having
00:43:33the card behind
00:43:34but that there was
00:43:35an ATM
00:43:36much closer
00:43:37where he
00:43:38does not withdraw
00:43:39but he prefers
00:43:40go to this
00:43:42which is significantly
00:43:43distant
00:43:45as timing
00:43:46the fact that he
00:43:47indicate
00:43:48that ATM
00:43:49two kilometers away
00:43:50he put it on
00:43:52sheltered
00:43:52from any
00:43:55suspected
00:43:56this is that
00:43:56who thinks
00:43:57is that so?
00:43:58Well definitely
00:43:59the times
00:44:00of travel
00:44:02of the journey
00:44:02to carry
00:44:03to this ATM
00:44:04they covered it
00:44:05Surely
00:44:06in an arch
00:44:08storm
00:44:09that would have brought us
00:44:10to exclude
00:44:10any of his involvement
00:44:12regarding this circumstance
00:44:14which are they
00:44:15the information
00:44:16what does he collect?
00:44:18The information
00:44:19that we collect
00:44:20they refer to
00:44:21at the moment
00:44:22of the return
00:44:23of this person
00:44:24in the area
00:44:25Why
00:44:26the wife
00:44:28of our confidant
00:44:30he tells us
00:44:31to see
00:44:32this person
00:44:33to return
00:44:34get closer
00:44:35to his son
00:44:36teenager
00:44:37and ask him for news
00:44:39what was it about?
00:44:39happening
00:44:40at that moment there
00:44:41let's hear what
00:44:42tells us
00:44:43Stefano Ciampini
00:44:46An interesting thing
00:44:48to say
00:44:48on behavior
00:44:50of my neighbor
00:44:52is that
00:44:53when he comes back
00:44:54At home
00:44:55after going
00:44:56uselessly
00:44:57at the ATM
00:44:58from a distance
00:44:59of about 300 meters
00:45:00he sees
00:45:02in front of
00:45:03at the gate
00:45:04of our condominium
00:45:05an assembly
00:45:07of machines
00:45:07of the police
00:45:08little lights etc.
00:45:09people who had gone out
00:45:10from all sides
00:45:11people who
00:45:13having heard
00:45:14Perhaps
00:45:16on television
00:45:18this thing
00:45:19and they were
00:45:19our friends
00:45:20they had
00:45:21precipitates
00:45:22to come
00:45:22and then
00:45:24should have
00:45:25to be very worried
00:45:27because he didn't know
00:45:28what had happened
00:45:29so it had to arrive
00:45:30out of breath
00:45:31call wife
00:45:32and son
00:45:33at the intercom
00:45:34and say
00:45:34what happened
00:45:35you're doing well
00:45:35Instead
00:45:37he is
00:45:38inserted
00:45:39from the gate
00:45:41open
00:45:41within
00:45:42of the condominium
00:45:44he got closer
00:45:45to a child
00:45:46nine years old
00:45:46and asked him
00:45:48What
00:45:49was happening
00:45:50after a few moments
00:45:52she turned around
00:45:52the mother
00:45:53of this child
00:45:54which was then
00:45:56the ex-wife
00:45:57of the source
00:45:57confidential
00:45:58to tell him
00:46:00What
00:46:01it had happened
00:46:02etc.
00:46:02etc.
00:46:03but does it seem logical to you
00:46:05that one
00:46:06seeing a situation
00:46:08of the genre
00:46:08he doesn't care
00:46:09Before
00:46:10of his
00:46:11of his relatives
00:46:13of his wife
00:46:13and his son
00:46:14to know
00:46:15what could it be
00:46:16happened to them
00:46:17since he didn't know
00:46:18what had happened
00:46:28that evening
00:46:29my brother-in-law
00:46:30which clearly
00:46:32he was wandering around
00:46:33him too
00:46:33in the condominium
00:46:35he saw his son
00:46:37of my neighbor
00:46:37approached
00:46:39from a policeman
00:46:40who invited him
00:46:41to get into the car
00:46:42to go to the police station
00:46:43to be questioned
00:46:46and at the same time
00:46:48he also saw
00:46:48the neighbor
00:46:50and his wife
00:46:51the parents
00:46:52return home
00:46:55a few seconds later
00:46:56the same policeman
00:46:58sound
00:47:00at the door
00:47:02of my neighbor
00:47:04but he received no response
00:47:05Nobody
00:47:06he came to open
00:47:08he did it several times
00:47:10but not
00:47:11he did not think it necessary
00:47:13insist
00:47:16they would have asked him
00:47:18where was it
00:47:18if he had heard
00:47:20if he hadn't heard
00:47:21and then
00:47:22he would have perhaps
00:47:24done yes
00:47:25that he too
00:47:26he was taken to the police station
00:47:27to be questioned
00:47:29etc.
00:47:29and maybe
00:47:30on the occasion
00:47:31given the contradictions
00:47:33that could arise
00:47:34they could have done it to him
00:47:36the glove too
00:47:36of paraffin
00:47:43the husband
00:47:44of the victim
00:47:45he claims
00:47:45that if you
00:47:46that evening
00:47:48you were submitting
00:47:48the neighbor
00:47:49to the test
00:47:50of the stub
00:47:51Perhaps
00:47:52this case
00:47:54it would have been
00:47:55solved
00:47:56after just a few hours
00:47:58how does he respond?
00:47:59to what he claims
00:48:00the husband
00:48:02of the victim
00:48:03it wasn't an exam
00:48:05that we could do
00:48:06about this person
00:48:08and their families
00:48:09at that moment
00:48:10because there weren't any
00:48:11such elements
00:48:12to be able to
00:48:14investigate
00:48:15for this crime
00:48:16what we are talking about
00:48:17they were people
00:48:18simply
00:48:19informed
00:48:20on the facts
00:48:21of the simple ones
00:48:22witnesses
00:48:23at that moment
00:48:24that we were dealing with
00:48:25as such
00:48:27talking to
00:48:29the wife
00:48:30of the source
00:48:30confidential
00:48:32she had
00:48:34had
00:48:35a piece of information
00:48:36that is, this woman
00:48:38had exactly
00:48:39described
00:48:40how he was dressed
00:48:41the neighbor
00:48:44remembering this
00:48:45particular
00:48:46it comes to her
00:48:47an idea
00:48:48Which?
00:48:49Yes
00:48:49the idea is that
00:48:50to go
00:48:51to carry out
00:48:51a search
00:48:52at his
00:48:54dwelling
00:48:55and at the same time
00:48:56in the course
00:48:56of the search
00:48:57withdraw
00:48:59the garment
00:49:01which presumably
00:49:02he was poisoning
00:49:03in the evening
00:49:04in which it was
00:49:04verified
00:49:05the murder
00:49:06in this specific case
00:49:07a sweater
00:49:08how many days
00:49:09they had passed
00:49:10from the murder?
00:49:11they had passed
00:49:12for several days now
00:49:13but
00:49:13unlike
00:49:15that on the hands
00:49:16or on the arms
00:49:17where these residues
00:49:19they can be
00:49:19easily removed
00:49:21through
00:49:22the simple wash
00:49:23on clothes
00:49:24it is possible
00:49:24take the exam
00:49:25even after
00:49:25several days
00:49:26for which you
00:49:27reach
00:49:28the house
00:49:29of the neighbor
00:49:29at home
00:49:30and take
00:49:31this sweater
00:49:38they go
00:49:39searching
00:49:40a sweater
00:49:41hazelnut color
00:49:42choker
00:49:43as described
00:49:45from a lady
00:49:46who had seen it
00:49:47enter
00:49:47that evening
00:49:48and instead
00:49:50they can't find it
00:49:51instead of contesting
00:49:52immediately
00:49:53this fact
00:49:54they accept
00:49:56that the neighbor
00:49:57propose to him
00:49:58as worn
00:49:59that evening
00:50:01a gray sweater
00:50:02with the neck
00:50:03V-shaped
00:50:04on this
00:50:06they do
00:50:06the evidence
00:50:07to see
00:50:08if there are any left
00:50:09traces
00:50:10of dust
00:50:11from shooting
00:50:11but obviously
00:50:12not being that
00:50:13the sweater
00:50:14the traces of dust
00:50:15from shooting
00:50:16there were none
00:50:20as he claims
00:50:22Stefano Ciampini
00:50:23you
00:50:23that time
00:50:25you were wrong
00:50:26Sweater
00:50:28how does he respond?
00:50:30to her husband
00:50:31of the victim
00:50:32but we
00:50:34we took
00:50:35the sweater
00:50:36among all the leaders
00:50:38that seemed to us
00:50:40at that moment
00:50:41closer
00:50:42to what it was
00:50:43was the description
00:50:44done
00:50:45from witnesses
00:50:46who had seen it
00:50:47wear
00:50:48to the person
00:50:49when he returned
00:50:50within the district
00:50:51the witnesses
00:50:52but
00:50:53they were saying
00:50:53which then
00:50:54it would be the wife
00:50:55of the source
00:50:57confidential
00:50:58describes you
00:50:59how he was dressed
00:51:00this neighbor
00:51:01at home
00:51:01and that is that
00:51:02he was wearing
00:51:03a sweater
00:51:03hazelnut color
00:51:04choker
00:51:05While
00:51:05the sweater
00:51:06that you
00:51:07take away
00:51:08it's a sweater
00:51:09grey
00:51:10V-shaped
00:51:10this sweater
00:51:12which describes
00:51:12the lady
00:51:13we didn't find it
00:51:15he was not present
00:51:16within
00:51:17of this house
00:51:17the only sweater
00:51:19compatible
00:51:20based also
00:51:22to the evaluations
00:51:23that we have done
00:51:24at that moment
00:51:25that was it
00:51:26that we have
00:51:27taken
00:51:27which was of another color
00:51:29which was of another color
00:51:31but let's keep in mind
00:51:32that all these
00:51:34observations
00:51:35they have
00:51:36their limits
00:51:37because precision
00:51:39and the description
00:51:39of a boss
00:51:40especially at night
00:51:41they don't have
00:51:42all this
00:51:43attention
00:51:43the fact that you
00:51:45you took
00:51:46this sweater
00:51:47and then
00:51:48pointing it out
00:51:49like that
00:51:50that he really
00:51:51he was wearing
00:51:52the day
00:51:52of the crime
00:51:54the fact of putting
00:51:55black on white
00:51:56that on that sweater
00:51:57there were none
00:51:58traces of dust
00:51:59from shooting
00:52:01it doesn't seem like it to you
00:52:02who created
00:52:03a situation
00:52:04which favored
00:52:06and not a little
00:52:07the neighbor
00:52:08at home
00:52:08our action
00:52:09it is finalized
00:52:10in search
00:52:10of the truth
00:52:11and at that moment
00:52:12the truth
00:52:13more reliable
00:52:13it was that
00:52:14that sweater
00:52:15it had to be
00:52:16paid attention
00:52:17then we add
00:52:18one more thing too
00:52:19that we don't have
00:52:20said
00:52:20that this
00:52:21it was the sweater
00:52:23that he was wearing
00:52:24the killer
00:52:26at the moment
00:52:26of the shot
00:52:28we simply have
00:52:29said that this
00:52:30it was the sweater
00:52:31that this person
00:52:32he was wearing
00:52:32when he returned
00:52:33he could very well
00:52:35wear
00:52:35anything else
00:52:36at the moment
00:52:37of the shot
00:52:42about this person
00:52:44you have
00:52:45up to now
00:52:46only
00:52:46clues
00:52:47you feel it
00:52:49several times
00:52:50me now
00:52:51I would like them
00:52:52light
00:52:53Exactly
00:52:54what
00:52:56he says
00:52:57this subject
00:52:59October 13th
00:53:01of 98
00:53:02and the 26th
00:53:0310 of 98
00:53:06during the first
00:53:07interrogation
00:53:08the neighbor
00:53:09he says
00:53:10I have never had
00:53:11family problems
00:53:12Ciampini-Scroppo
00:53:13our relationships
00:53:15they have always been
00:53:16good neighborly
00:53:17I can't tell you
00:53:18any problems
00:53:19family members
00:53:20of the aforementioned
00:53:21spouses
00:53:22during a second
00:53:24interrogation
00:53:25happened on the 26th
00:53:27October 98
00:53:29and this happens
00:53:31after the source
00:53:32confidential
00:53:34he told you
00:53:35several things
00:53:36he expresses himself
00:53:38in very different terms
00:53:40above all
00:53:40towards
00:53:41by Eleonora
00:53:41I have never had
00:53:43special discussions
00:53:44with the exception
00:53:45than for a fireplace
00:53:47I didn't greet her
00:53:48by virtue of his character
00:53:51particularly grumpy
00:53:53I can confirm
00:53:54of having heard
00:53:55various discussions
00:53:56between the same
00:53:57her husband
00:53:58and his children
00:54:06in reading
00:54:07one after the other
00:54:08the interrogations
00:54:09which followed one another
00:54:10over time
00:54:11it's understood
00:54:12perfectly
00:54:13that there are
00:54:14of contradictions
00:54:16not simply
00:54:18the neighbor
00:54:19he contradicts himself
00:54:20even when you
00:54:22listen
00:54:23the wife
00:54:24and the son
00:54:25something
00:54:25he's not coming back
00:54:26and precisely
00:54:27these contradictions
00:54:29will be used
00:54:30from her husband
00:54:32of the victim
00:54:33When
00:54:34the magistrate
00:54:36in 2000
00:54:36after two years
00:54:37from the crime
00:54:39comes to ask
00:54:40the archiving
00:54:41these topics
00:54:43they prevent
00:54:45that the request
00:54:46be accepted
00:54:48and you can
00:54:49continue
00:54:50to investigate
00:54:51what are you doing?
00:54:53but first of all
00:54:55let's update
00:54:57the whole story
00:54:58listening again
00:54:59all people
00:55:00which had been
00:55:02involved
00:55:03or who were aware
00:55:04of facts
00:55:05relevant
00:55:06and then above all
00:55:07we refocus
00:55:08again
00:55:09on the matter
00:55:10of the ATM
00:55:11and in particular
00:55:12we do
00:55:13the investigations
00:55:14banking
00:55:15to check
00:55:16if
00:55:17that ATM
00:55:18it had been
00:55:18never used
00:55:20from this person
00:55:21previously
00:55:22and what do you discover?
00:55:23let's find out
00:55:24that this person
00:55:25had never had
00:55:26taken
00:55:26at this ATM
00:55:28there hadn't been
00:55:28never any withdrawals
00:55:31the title
00:55:32of the agency
00:55:33era
00:55:33Scroppo case
00:55:34under investigation
00:55:35a neighbor
00:55:36at home
00:55:36it was a novelty
00:55:38incredible
00:55:38there had never been one
00:55:39spoke
00:55:40of a neighbor
00:55:41under investigation
00:55:41for the murder
00:55:44we arrive at 2003
00:55:45they have passed
00:55:46five years
00:55:47from the crime
00:55:48by Eleonora Scroppo
00:55:49this time
00:55:51when the magistrate
00:55:52requires
00:55:53the archiving
00:55:54the request
00:55:56is accepted
00:55:57and the investigations
00:55:59they stop
00:56:00the case
00:56:01it's archived
00:56:04Doctor De Simone
00:56:07during
00:56:08those years
00:56:10she followed
00:56:12different tracks
00:56:15and there were
00:56:16even different ones
00:56:17suspects
00:56:19we can
00:56:20put
00:56:22a cross
00:56:22on the
00:56:24brother in law
00:56:25by Eleonora
00:56:28at the end
00:56:29son
00:56:30about the father
00:56:31of the former
00:56:32fiancée
00:56:33of the son
00:56:34by Eleonora
00:56:35I also put
00:56:37a cross
00:56:37on the neighbor
00:56:38at home
00:56:38Unfortunately
00:56:40Yes
00:56:51this
00:56:53hesitation
00:56:54this unfortunately
00:56:55he said it
00:56:56Also
00:56:56the magistrate
00:56:58When
00:56:58he did
00:56:59the request
00:57:00of archiving
00:57:01Why
00:57:04I read
00:57:06he says that
00:57:07the neighbor
00:57:07at home
00:57:08it wasn't
00:57:08at home
00:57:10at the moment
00:57:10of the crime
00:57:11did not carry out
00:57:13the withdrawal
00:57:15at the counter
00:57:16Matt
00:57:16he has no alibi
00:57:20he also says
00:57:21That
00:57:21the neighbor
00:57:22at home
00:57:23he hated
00:57:24the family
00:57:25Ciampini
00:57:26and he was a person
00:57:28from behaviors
00:57:29anomalous
00:57:30And
00:57:31psychically
00:57:32complex
00:57:33and concludes
00:57:34the context
00:57:35circumstantial evidence
00:57:36can induce
00:57:38only
00:57:38to the formulation
00:57:40of mere
00:57:41considerations
00:57:42possibilistic
00:57:43but it doesn't allow
00:57:45Certainly
00:57:45no outlet
00:57:47procedural
00:57:48appearing
00:57:49absolutely
00:57:50unsustainable
00:57:51the accusation
00:57:52in court
00:57:53and the case
00:57:56as I said
00:57:56Before
00:57:57he comes
00:57:58archived
00:58:04close a file
00:58:05and say
00:58:06Enough
00:58:06there is no more
00:58:07hope
00:58:07of justice
00:58:08does not give
00:58:09only
00:58:10a sense
00:58:10of bitterness
00:58:11because your dear
00:58:13you don't know
00:58:14how he was killed
00:58:15but it also gives you
00:58:16a sense
00:58:16of detachment
00:58:17from the context
00:58:18social
00:58:18where you live
00:58:19from hearing you
00:58:19within a company
00:58:21capable
00:58:21to guarantee
00:58:22a primary good
00:58:23absolute
00:58:24that of justice
00:58:30at a distance
00:58:3123 years old
00:58:32from the crime
00:58:33the killer
00:58:35by Eleonora
00:58:36Scroppo
00:58:37it's still
00:58:37at liberty
00:58:38Unfortunately
00:58:40it's like this
00:58:40but
00:58:42our presence
00:58:43in this
00:58:44transmission
00:58:45it is to be wanted
00:58:47to propose again
00:58:48and rebuild
00:58:49the succession
00:58:50of events
00:58:51investigative
00:58:52and judicial
00:58:53of this story
00:58:54it's the proof
00:58:55that the police
00:58:56don't forget
00:59:01I think people
00:59:02he didn't get passionate
00:59:03to this story
00:59:04dramatic
00:59:05Why
00:59:06he didn't understand it
00:59:08Why
00:59:09there wasn't
00:59:09a track
00:59:10of any kind
00:59:12mouthpiece
00:59:13immediately
00:59:13by the investigators
00:59:14the readers
00:59:15they couldn't
00:59:16to do some
00:59:18inferences
00:59:19they couldn't
00:59:19to have suspicions
00:59:20they couldn't
00:59:21talk about it
00:59:21because they didn't know
00:59:23what to talk about
00:59:23in case
00:59:24of the scroppo
00:59:25the shots
00:59:26they came from
00:59:26from the outside
00:59:27Therefore
00:59:28from an entity
00:59:29faceless
00:59:29Nobody
00:59:30he saw nothing
00:59:31Nobody
00:59:31he heard
00:59:32there were none
00:59:33surveillance camera
00:59:37let's hear it again
00:59:39what
00:59:40he tells us
00:59:40gin clement
00:59:41this time
00:59:43we asked him
00:59:44to do it
00:59:45the profile
00:59:46of the murderer
00:59:47Of
00:59:48Eleonora Scroppo
00:59:52my profile
00:59:54he is a man
00:59:57between 40 and 50 years old
00:59:58impulsive
00:59:59and easily
01:00:00inclines anger
01:00:01with a strong sense
01:00:02of frustration
01:00:03in his life
01:00:04he feels justified
01:00:06in committing
01:00:06this murder
01:00:07but he is not a criminal
01:00:08expert
01:00:09and then
01:00:09his behavior
01:00:10will be changed
01:00:11after the murder
01:00:12the motive to kill
01:00:19could be
01:00:20traceable
01:00:21to personal conflicts
01:00:22with the victim
01:00:23and Eleonora
01:00:23for the murderer
01:00:24is the real cause
01:00:27this would be
01:00:28the profile
01:00:29of the murderer
01:00:30second
01:00:30gin clement
01:00:32our American profiler
01:00:34I don't ask her
01:00:35to make the profile
01:00:36of the murderer
01:00:37but to arrest him
01:00:38what should happen
01:00:40to reopen
01:00:41this case
01:00:41it should happen
01:00:43a very simple thing
01:00:45which is not uncommon
01:00:46let it happen
01:00:47that someone
01:00:48say something
01:00:50or that it occurs
01:00:52an event
01:00:52a fact
01:00:53that can
01:00:54to be an element
01:00:55of news
01:00:56and that we can
01:00:57allow
01:00:58to resume
01:00:59an activity
01:01:00on new fronts
01:01:02or learn more
01:01:03old fronts
01:01:04which already are
01:01:04closed
01:01:05if there is anyone
01:01:06which has these elements
01:01:08provide them to us
01:01:09why us
01:01:10we are always ready
01:01:11to start again
01:01:13from the beginning
01:01:13Dr. De Simone
01:01:15it was clear
01:01:15who knows what you're talking about
01:01:17so if someone
01:01:18has some information
01:01:20important
01:01:21on the case
01:01:22scroppo
01:01:22can contact
01:01:25in place
01:01:25of the police
01:01:26closer
01:01:31What
01:01:32she was left with
01:01:33of this story
01:01:34I have it left
01:01:35the bitterness
01:01:35of not having brought
01:01:36upon completion
01:01:37an activity
01:01:38of investigation
01:01:39very intense
01:01:40which required
01:01:41a lot of work
01:01:41and a lot of effort
01:01:43by many men
01:01:44and so much staff
01:01:47Dr. De Simone
01:01:48thank you
01:01:50of having come
01:01:50here
01:01:51a Detective
01:01:51thanks to you
01:02:22a May morning
01:02:26which required
01:02:27to whoever requested
01:02:27to whoever requested
01:02:27to whoever requested
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