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00:00So, we invited you to the studio, because now we're waking up a mystery that isn't a mystery,
00:09this SISD document from which some pages appeared to have been removed for confidentiality reasons,
00:17We have this document in its entirety, just a few seconds of pause before.
00:22So, I would start from here, this is a document that was said to be confidential, which was missing some pages,
00:29and so it was said who knows what is highly confidential in these pages,
00:33that is, it was said that they had been removed so as not to be seen, so as not to be read what was there
00:39in these pages.
00:40We have all these pages, all 14, thanks to Laura Sgro, the lawyer of the Orlandi family,
00:46thanks to Pietro, the brother, and to the other Pietro, who is the son of Mario Meneguzzi,
00:51that somehow you enter, you too enter into these cards,
00:55and these cards because they are very important, Laura Sgro, lawyer,
00:59because it was said that they contained confidential information about the uncle,
01:06let's say it, in short, about Manuel Orlandi's uncle,
01:09which however were not to be disclosed in any way.
01:14Instead...
01:15It is not true.
01:15It is not true.
01:16What did we notice, lawyer?
01:18Which is a mistake...
01:19It's simply a digitalization error,
01:22that is, when the Prosecutor's Office acquired all the documents and digitized them,
01:26There was an error in the payment of the document.
01:29So simply by mistake some pages were missing.
01:32There were a few pages missing.
01:33The document arrived in its entirety when requested.
01:37So here the Public Prosecutor's Office writes
01:39for me the material error was not inserted correctly
01:43in the digital archive of this Prosecutor's Office.
01:46You have to imagine that there are so many, right?
01:49The pages that concern...
01:51So they were all written pages.
01:52Digitizing is of course very complicated.
01:56So a material error in the digitalization
01:59in what I wrote down is the TIAP,
02:03that is, Computerized Processing of Procedural Documents, right?
02:07Exact.
02:08So, these pages, so we can finally see them all.
02:13Also because they are no longer classified as confidential
02:17and there isn't even a disclosure divide.
02:20So it's a document we can safely talk about.
02:23You can talk freely.
02:25So, what's going on?
02:26That the document that somehow ended on page 9, I think, right?
02:32Something is said that is quite obvious.
02:35When a person, a boy, is kidnapped,
02:39whoever it is, of course, what are they going to do?
02:43We go to study who the family members are, even, I believe, in the current accounts,
02:47if they are rich, if there can be a ransom, in short, we'll have to see.
02:50Therefore, highly confidential investigations are underway regarding the Orlandi family,
02:54of friends, of children who frequent the house, on the uncle's account,
02:58in short, practically the entire family circle.
03:02Now, this page 9, what's happening?
03:06That we only had these first pages, right?
03:09This page 9, if you, ends with Pietro Meneguzzi,
03:15the uncle's son, in quotation marks,
03:18and they talk about your past, which, well, who doesn't have it,
03:21they are the experiences of a political activist, in short,
03:25which has nothing to do with it, right?
03:27With the passing, of course, of Emanuele Orlandi.
03:30Well, I would go, at this point, however, to see the pages
03:34which seemed to hide some mystery about the uncle.
03:40Let's go and see if this uncle of Emanuele Orlandi,
03:43that is, Mario Meneguzzi, Pietro's father, is mentioned.
03:47Actually, after they talk about you, they talk, Peter, about your brother, right?
03:52They say your brother is against you, against politics,
03:54In short, I don't care about politics.
03:58And then they talk about Aliyah Chah, though.
04:01That is, the uncle on this page is not...
04:02Absolutely nothing.
04:03Absolutely nothing.
04:05Not a word.
04:06And not even the one that follows.
04:08And not even that...
04:09So, let's see the next one,
04:10because then the pages were three, four,
04:13those ones that seemed, in short, to have some burning revelations.
04:18Here it is.
04:19What's happening here?
04:21Actually, Peter, you can explain this better to us, right?
04:27We are talking about prelates, that is, priests,
04:29because then Natalina had to get married and...
04:32She had to get married and she had to choose the priest
04:36who could have celebrated mass.
04:38And then he chose these priests who those who are abroad cannot come.
04:41Yes, all family acquaintances, anyway.
04:43All family acquaintances.
04:45So if something has been obscured,
04:46these prelates were, let's say, lawyers.
04:48Of these three prelates.
04:50Of these prelates.
04:51So, let's go to the next page.
04:55And then the next page.
04:58We have obliterated these prelates, but...
05:02So, they were people we knew very well.
05:05That is, people we knew in the family.
05:07So Natalina, even before what happened to Emanuela,
05:12she had chosen who could celebrate her and Andrea's wedding.
05:15And there were these monsignors we knew.
05:17But we obbbled it.
05:18He was in Colombia, he couldn't do it anymore.
05:20Yes, then we also filled out names, I don't know,
05:23It said drug addicts who had died.
05:26Well, even for such a right to privacy, of course.
05:29Yes, but they have nothing to do with what happened to Emanuela.
05:32No, no, no, no.
05:32I mean, this classified SISD document, actually, is wide ranging, right?
05:36It's a 360-degree overview of what was happening in those days.
05:39There's a Mario, there's the one in Piazza Navona.
05:42Exact.
05:42A phone call that arrived at home, an anonymous letter that arrived at home.
05:47This note is dated July 22nd.
05:49So it's a note that covers everything, exactly everything that has been brought to light
05:56of the investigators in those days.
05:58Certain.
05:58So it's 360 degrees.
06:00But you know, sometimes all it takes is sowing doubt to create history.
06:03In this case, doubt has crept in.
06:06Because these pages weren't there and one says who knows what is in these pages.
06:10These pages were not there because a mistake was made, but anyway, it's very clear,
06:16because digitalization is not a simple thing.
06:20And then here we talk about a bar where there is a young foreigner who went away after
06:24the disappearance of Manuel Orlandi and then the pages that follow are the ones we had already shown.
06:31You, Peter, in these days, in these weeks, have you feared that who knows what was in these pages?
06:38No, I absolutely wasn't afraid for two simple reasons, among other things.
06:42One because I was obviously unaware of this relationship.
06:46I had never read it, obviously.
06:48At the time, we were sure of it, but it has been said and repeated.
06:52We were sure that we were all being followed, so us, them.
06:56And then I didn't fear it for a simple reason, I mean I didn't even think about it for a simple reason,
07:00because I really exemplify both in the prosecutor's office and in the commission they asked me and I said
07:06the facts that are reported, then that she mentioned, the facts that are reported regarding me,
07:12of my past.
07:13Both in the prosecutor's office, I'm talking about now, obviously the prosecutor's office...
07:16Which then happened, let's say, politically, but well, at the time...
07:19Absolutely, political past that I honestly don't put on my CV if I have to do so,
07:26but I don't regret it and I don't regret it and if I could go back I would definitely do it again,
07:32but I would do it again because, I mean, it's a fact that I'm not going to explain here.
07:38So, there were these missing pages that were talked about a lot, which were after the talk of the
07:43Orlandi family,
07:44so we talked about the uncle, then the son and then there were the missing pages.
07:48Actually, there were two more pages missing, we noticed it right away, which I think are page 5.
07:53and 6...
07:54No, 6 and 7, here it is, and there is nothing scandalous there either, I don't know if we can do
08:01see also pages 6 and 7,
08:03that were missing, they were not digitized, but now they are available to everyone, and here it is.
08:13Here is an anonymous letter, it is an anonymous letter, then here it is written who died of an overdose or
08:22for a crisis of absence,
08:25that is, this makes you understand that, precisely as lawyer Sgro says, everything is done on a broad scale.
08:31But yes, it was a summary of all the situations that happen in those days, the reports.
08:36Is there a list of the missing from July 22nd, too?
08:38And sure, and nothing, it's here, because then what happened?
08:44That some people called, a phone call, he had something against that person, and then we go and check on this person.
08:52Exactly.
08:54In short, then, let's clear up, let's say, the doubt, this one from the SISDE,
09:03there are no secret things, there are no sensitive things that concern your father,
09:10In fact, I have to say, your father is never mentioned at all, these pages are simply not there.
09:16Don't repeat it, I didn't know them, but I...
09:19They bothered me, obviously, the, let's say, narrating them in a certain way,
09:25because it seemed like who knows what, these missing, hidden pages, so to speak, so...
09:31The important thing is to clarify.
09:33The important thing is to clarify.
09:34No, of course, absolutely not.
09:35It's certain.
09:36Well, no, in fact we thank you because it is important to clarify things.
09:41Then I want to say one thing, because I see that the phone calls that were made are circulating a lot.
09:46Actually, it was your father who answered, not...
09:49It was your father who answered, it was dad who answered.
09:53It was Dad who answered, it was Dad who answered, he wasn't able to, but that...
09:56No, because many times it is written that it is your father, that it is Hercules, who answers...
10:00At the beginning, yes, because they didn't even know it, because the first few days...
10:03Of course, then at a certain point it's the father, it's Uzio, let's say, who responds precisely because he doesn't...
10:07And my father next to me, because they were all in the bedroom,
10:09Yes, yes, yes, how does he have it?
10:10From morning till evening, until night, they slept together, in the same room,
10:14waiting for that important phone call to arrive.
10:17And these are very tough times.
10:19So, I, the one who...
10:22When I talk about Emanuele Orlandi I always say that the crux is there.
10:25It's definitely not his uncle, because Emanuele would have recognized him.
10:28I mean, that man who is the predator anyway, right?
10:31In quotation marks, we talked about it a lot before.
10:33That is, that man who approaches with the excuse of having her do a job
10:37when you're young, then everyone sees this money,
10:41one dreams about what one can buy.
10:43Why do we have to start from there?
10:46Because that man was never found.
10:49And that's definitely what made this girl disappear, in some way.
10:54So, always with Francesco Paolo del Re, Ima Giuliani.
10:57I'll show you this service, which is very important,
11:00because you will see some amazing images.
11:04Why Emanuele Orlandi has been talked about since the days of Telefono Giallo
11:07when those who saw it did not yet exist.
11:10Corrado Augias was there.
11:12We want to understand with you why she was investigated
11:17one of Emanuele Orlandi's classmates from music class.
11:23Look, when our Fiore De Rienzo made these reconstructions,
11:31he got help from the protagonists themselves.
11:34So you can see the protagonists, you can see Natalina Giovane,
11:38but also the girl who was investigated when she was young
11:42and spoke to our journalists.
11:45So, Francesco Paolo del Re with Ima Giuliani.
11:55It was the afternoon of July 8, 1983.
11:58She is Laura Casagrande.
12:00This is an exceptional document.
12:02Four years after the disappearance of Emanuele Orlandi,
12:05she and her other classmates from the Music School
12:07they are interviewed by Telefono Giallo,
12:10the program hosted by Corrado Augias, also on Rai3.
12:13Emanuele had been offered 375 thousand lire that day
12:18to distribute Avon flyers.
12:20Avon is a cosmetics company that does door-to-door distribution,
12:24which does not operate through normal shops.
12:26Our police consultants told us,
12:29after getting information directly from the source,
12:31that Avon had no campaign running that day,
12:35no initiative of that kind.
12:36So either Emanuele, which is very unlikely because he said it to two different people,
12:41she lied or someone led her to falsely believe that the offer was standing.
12:50The man has never been identified,
12:52but after 40 years it is this girl, who is now a woman,
12:56to be investigated for making false statements to the PM.
13:00And then we start all over again, for us too,
13:03that we are able to show you the protagonists of this mysterious disappearance,
13:07just as they were then.
13:09Emanuele is a very simple girl.
13:12Look at Natalina, Emanuele's sister, very young,
13:16she was also interviewed by Telefono Giallo.
13:18He made himself well liked.
13:19But why is Laura Casagrande under investigation?
13:22Why would he lie?
13:26Emanuele Orlandi disappears within 20 minutes,
13:29in the path between the gate of the Tommaso Ludovico da Victoria music school
13:34and the bus stop he was supposed to take to go home.
13:40What happens in this short period of time
13:43However, it is perhaps linked to an encounter that Emanuele has before entering school.
13:49This is Raffaella Monzi's story on Telefono Giallo,
13:52recorded four years after the disappearance.
13:55Raffaella is one of my classmates at music school.
13:58That day Emanuele arrived ten minutes late.
14:01I remember him well because the professor asked us about him.
14:05It seemed very strange to us because she was usually a very punctual girl.
14:11Emanuele arrives late because he is just a few meters from the music school
14:15she is stopped by a man who is described as having a green BMW
14:18and a briefcase with the Avon cosmetics brand on it.
14:23There he notices a traffic policeman on duty here in front of the Senate.
14:27This man is a man of about 30 years old,
14:321.75m tall or a little more.
14:35quite slender, long, with a slightly, let's say, long rise.
14:40I think he had a briefcase, they had something,
14:43they have a bag, a briefcase.
14:46An unidentified man.
14:48Here is the identikit drawn up by investigators at the time.
14:51This man makes her a job offer and she confides in one of her sisters.
14:56He was only supposed to advertise a cosmetics company called Lavon through flyers.
15:06during a fashion show.
15:08The compensation would have been 375 thousand lire.
15:12The first of the two lessons scheduled for that afternoon is the flute lesson.
15:16The second is that of choral singing.
15:19I remember she arrived in the classroom and was very out of breath.
15:23And this was evidently done because he had run up the stairs.
15:27During class, Emanuela keeps thinking about the job offer she received earlier.
15:34375 thousand lire is a lot of money.
15:36And he asks for permission.
15:38He wants to leave early to call home.
15:40That day I asked the choir teacher to leave 10 minutes early
15:46because he had an appointment.
15:48A little before seven in the afternoon Emanuela called home because she wanted to talk to her mother.
15:55Mom was out and my sister Federica answered.
16:01So sure, a man offered her a job.
16:05Emanuela tells her sister and then confides in Raffaella Musi, her music partner.
16:10And then...
16:11The girls all leave school together.
16:15Emanuela asks Raffaella for advice as they walk to the bus stop.
16:19This reconstruction was made by our Fiore di Rienzo
16:23and the blonde girl you see is Raffaella Monzi
16:27who agrees to retrace the steps of that day.
16:31I was on my way to catch the bus when Emanuela reached me and asked me for advice.
16:37She told me that she had been offered a job.
16:39It seemed excessive to me.
16:41In fact, I told him because it was really too much for a day's work.
16:46Then he also told me if he had to take the bus or go to the appointment.
16:51I told her, well, you do it yourself.
16:54And in fact I was very sorry about that.
16:57because if I had maybe answered differently
17:01it wouldn't have gone like this by now.
17:04Did Emanuela go on the date with the unknown man?
17:07Evidently yes.
17:09Raffaella Monzi is one of the last people to see Emanuela
17:12but there are other girls too
17:14including Laura Casagrande
17:15the current suspect for providing false information to the PM
17:18which over time provides different versions
17:21of the last moments before Emanuela's disappearance
17:24which don't seem to match each other.
17:29Laura Casagrande is questioned for the first time at the police station
17:3211 days after disappearing with her mother
17:35because that day comes to their house
17:37a phone call from Emanuela's alleged kidnapper.
17:41This man asked if we were aware of Emanuela's case
17:45and if we were willing to help her.
17:46My mother said yes and then the man invited her
17:50to take pen and paper and write.
17:52The Flying Squad officers ask her questions
17:54on this phone call and they don't go into detail
17:57what Laura remembers on the afternoon of her disappearance.
18:00She only states that she takes the bus
18:03every now and then with Emanuela.
18:05I actually took it together with other school companies
18:08bus line 64 with Emanuela.
18:11This one never confided anything about herself to me.
18:13nor did I ever notice any suspicious people or cars following us.
18:18But what's the fastest bus home for Emanuela?
18:22Around the corner from the music school is the 70 bus stop.
18:25but then she has to walk part of the way
18:27why does this bus stop in front of the Court of Cassation?
18:31Or there is the 64 which is further away from the music school
18:35but the door is right under the house.
18:37That day she has to go to her sister who is waiting for her in front of the Court of Cassation
18:41and therefore he should have logically taken the 70
18:44and in fact that's what Maria Grazia says.
18:48She also studies music with Emanuela.
18:50The last time I saw Emanuela was around 7pm
18:54when leaving school.
18:56I would like to point out that she was standing with a friend of hers.
18:58at bus stop number 70.
19:00This fact seemed strange to me
19:02as I knew that Emanuela didn't take that bus.
19:06I should point out that when the 70th arrived I went up
19:09while Emanuela and her friend remained where they were.
19:13It seemed on this occasion
19:15that the two girls were waiting for someone
19:17and Emanuela's attitude was very tense.
19:21So Emanuela is seen in the company of a girl
19:23which is not immediately identified.
19:27The bus arrives and both girls don't get on.
19:30Emanuela is waiting for someone.
19:31he is the Avon man
19:33and the mysterious girl who is seen with her
19:35do you know where you have to go and with whom?
19:38I remember perfectly that Emanuela
19:40he had the typical behavior of someone who is impatient.
19:43I can say this because when I said goodbye to Emanuela
19:46the latter answered me distractedly.
19:49Who is the girl seen with Emanuela?
19:52Is she also going to the appointment with the kidnapper?
19:54This girl is about 15 years old
19:57a little shorter than Emanuela
19:58with short, curly, black hair.
20:0215 years old, curly, short black hair, short.
20:06The Flying Squad is investigating the identity of this girl.
20:10and the first of August
20:11an agent writes a memo.
20:14This note remained for 40 years
20:17among the papers of the Rome police headquarters
20:18without ever being included in the prosecutor's file
20:21on Emanuela's disappearance.
20:23It only came to light recently
20:25as part of the new investigation
20:27promoted by PM Stefano Luciani.
20:29I spoke to Sister Dolores by telephone
20:32to find out if the girl had been identified.
20:35The nun told me that she had had it viewed
20:37school cards to Maria Grazia
20:39who recognized Laura in Casa Grande
20:42the girl who was in Emanuela's company.
20:44The mysterious girl who is seen next to Emanuela
20:48it's Laura Casagrande herself
20:49that is, the woman who is now under investigation.
20:52Was she 15 years old, with short, black, curly hair?
20:56Here it is, Casagrande is like this
20:57four years after his disappearance
20:59at 19 years old.
21:01But let's continue.
21:02In the mobile squad's note
21:04we read that Sister Dolores
21:05calls Laura Casagrande and asks her
21:07were you with Emanuela?
21:09Casagrande, subsequently questioned
21:12from the same religious
21:13he would have told her that he had gone
21:15up to the Colla Orlandi stop
21:16and after having stopped for a few minutes
21:19with Emanuela herself
21:20he had left her at the bus stop
21:22while she continued on foot
21:24up to Corso Vittorio
21:25to take bus 64
21:27in the company of other schoolmates
21:29arrived in the meantime.
21:31Laura Casagrande would therefore confirm
21:33to Sister Dolores
21:34of having stayed for a few minutes
21:37with Emanuela at the 70 stop
21:39and then he tells the nun
21:41of having left it there.
21:43But on August 4, 1983
21:45he says different things to the Carabinieri.
21:48Tell us first
21:49to have left school in a hurry
21:51before the other girls.
21:54Walking down the school stairs
21:55Emanuela was behind me
21:57so she arrived at the courtyard
21:59I said goodbye to her and waited
22:00even if I was in a hurry
22:01the whole group.
22:03When we got together
22:04in the school's external courtyard
22:05seeing that the group
22:07he lingered to speak
22:08I decided to get started
22:09towards my house.
22:11Contrary to what was stated
22:13previously to the Sister
22:14this time Laura Casagrande
22:16she doesn't say she entertained herself
22:17at the bus stop with Emanuela
22:19but he says he observed her
22:21from afar
22:21and then never saw her again.
22:23Are you confused?
22:24Is this an accidental mistake?
22:26a trick of his memory?
22:28Then continue.
22:29At the bus stop number 64
22:31I was joined by the whole group
22:33and I asked a friend of mine
22:35where Emanuela was.
22:36He replied that he didn't know anything about it.
22:38or rather, not having noticed, Emanuela.
22:41We ask ourselves
22:42why is he asking about Emanuela?
22:44And why does it turn around several times?
22:46to see if behind her
22:47was Emanuela really there?
22:49I turned around several times
22:51to check if the group had moved.
22:53I found out that Emanuela
22:54he was about 20 meters behind me
22:56and that all the others came further back.
22:59We have almost reached the end of Corso Rinascimento
23:01I turned around again
23:03seeing only friends
23:04while Emanuela was no longer there.
23:09Let's recap.
23:10Three different versions
23:10those provided by Laura Casagrande.
23:13She tells Sister Dolores that she entertained herself
23:15with Emanuela at the 70 stop.
23:17She told the police that she had moved on
23:19when he was leaving school because he was in a hurry
23:21and having observed it from afar
23:23while Emanuela was behind her.
23:25To the parliamentary commission instead
23:28he says he doesn't remember
23:29that they had gone out together that day.
23:32It should be emphasized that the investigation by the prosecutor's office
23:34it's in progress
23:35and that's why we don't know
23:37why Laura Casagrande
23:39she is under investigation for making false statements to the PM.
23:42But let's go back to the girl with the curly black hair.
23:45It's strange that when Laura Casagrande
23:47is resented
23:48no one ask her if it was her
23:50since Sister Dolores had said so.
23:54Let's look at this yellow telephone document again.
23:56Here Laura Casagrande is 19 years old.
23:59It's been 4 years since he disappeared
24:01so he was 15 at the time.
24:04Her hair
24:05they are certainly moved
24:06but not hedgehogs.
24:08When today the members
24:09of the parliamentary commission of inquiry
24:11they ask her about her hair
24:12she answers like this
24:14Have you ever had Mrs. Laura?
24:16curly, dark hair
24:17when he was a teenager?
24:18Yes, I got a perm.
24:20following these facts
24:22the following summer
24:23or that same summer.
24:26We show you this photo
24:28taken during a concert
24:30of the music school
24:31just a month before his disappearance.
24:34You recognize this one
24:36it's Emanuela Orlandi.
24:38The other girls we see
24:39they all look taller than her.
24:45Why the problem
24:46it was never understood
24:47who was this girl?
24:48little one
24:50recipe
24:51we made many appeals
24:52no one said it's me
24:53then we didn't know
24:54this permanent thing
24:55that makes us curly
24:57or we smooth ourselves over
24:58the hair.
25:01So, Peter
25:02I ask you
25:03you have the feeling
25:05that these friends
25:06maybe out of fear
25:07because they were little girls
25:09then they didn't say
25:10not even 15 years old
25:1114 and a half years old
25:12Meanwhile, congratulations to Francesco
25:14because he succeeded
25:15to summarize
25:16that situation
25:17Very good.
25:19To try to understand
25:20there that day
25:21with all the testimonies.
25:23Look, they hit me
25:24several things
25:25compared to this person
25:26that is, the first is that
25:27I was sorry
25:28that the name has come out
25:29I have to tell the truth
25:29because a person's name
25:32being investigated is always bad
25:33why one must think
25:34as long as there is innocence
25:36from this person
25:37but there have been
25:38of the things that in the course
25:39of the years
25:39have always been
25:41a little bit particular
25:41it's my thing
25:42which hit
25:42more than anyone
25:44and she if I remember
25:45a little girl
25:4514 years old
25:46a phone call comes in
25:48At home
25:48of those who at the time
25:50everyone considered
25:51of international terrorists
25:52not simple ones
25:53criminals
25:54the mother answers
25:56on the phone
25:56and what does it do
25:57he says wait
25:58I'm going to see my daughter again
25:59that is, the mother
26:00a little girl passes by
26:0114 years old
26:02and she writes
26:03three pages
26:04calmly
26:05under dictation
26:06I mean, I could even think
26:07as we said before
26:08that there was not
26:09not even that phone call
26:10Why
26:11there is an impression
26:12which then was not understood
26:13because there was
26:14because they had
26:15that phone number
26:16she says
26:17No
26:17she at the time
26:18he said this thing
26:19which was on the manuscript
26:20he said that
26:21the last time
26:22that we met
26:23with Emanuela
26:24we exchanged
26:25telephone numbers
26:26and she's my number
26:27I remember
26:28he put it
26:28in the small pocket
26:29some jeans
26:30oh no
26:30in the spa
26:31I remembered
26:32this is that
26:33who said
26:34then it's complicated
26:35they are girls
26:36very young
26:37which they may have had
26:38even fear
26:39to speak
26:40it could be
26:41was threatened
26:42that brought them closer
26:43in short there are those who
26:44behind these girls
26:45he told us
26:46I'm still scared
26:47after 40 years
26:49I'm afraid of dying
26:50See you then
26:51immediately after
26:51this short break
27:18in the frozen vegetable sticks
27:20hear what matters
27:22quality
27:23so much care
27:24and authentic flavor
27:25that's all
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27:29Here you are
27:30now all the entrances
27:32they are protected by the alarm
27:33thank goodness you came right away
27:35after last night
27:36calm down
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28:52oh no
28:53my Linus
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28:54Well
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28:56but I still need it
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29:00Linus Specialist Lady
29:02thanks to its absorbent heart
29:03block leaks
29:04catches urine leaks
29:06and only you know you're wearing it
29:07come on let's go
29:09Linus Specialist
29:10protection and discretion
29:12Reception Specialist
29:14four letters
29:16Enza
29:18Specialist in
29:19Krai
29:19but of course
29:20in the welcome
29:22but also in convenience
29:23until March 1st
29:24we are waiting for you
29:25with many Krai products
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29:29Enza's word
29:30Krai
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29:32you have one last wish
29:33I could make a phone call
29:34Mario ready
29:35How are you?
29:37I'm fine fine
29:37oh sure
29:38we've come a long way
29:40time flies
29:41when you're having fun
29:42like in that movie
29:43what is his name?
29:44there is definitely something here
29:45if I find the film
29:46in the end
29:46on Team Vision
29:47I find it safe
29:48my phone is running out of battery
29:50fortunately
29:51there is Team Energy
29:52Energy
29:53connections
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29:54and insurance
29:55everything I need
29:57yes maybe
29:57a life insurance policy
29:58maybe it would be useful for me
30:00Team
30:00a connection
30:01prolongs life
30:09the task of journalists
30:11is to go on these roads
30:14to judge from the outside
30:15it's very easy
30:16let's give a signal
30:18to the greater
30:19Massimo Giletti
30:20leads
30:21The State of Things
30:22Monday at 9.20pm
30:23on Rai 3
30:24poetry is in everything
30:27an unpublished portrait
30:28by Giuseppe Ungaretti
30:29his poetry
30:30it's here
30:31and he still speaks to us
30:32he was the greatest poet
30:34of the last century
30:35A Man's Life
30:37Giuseppe Ungaretti
30:39Friday 9.20pm
30:40Rai 3
30:43We must learn
30:44to listen to nature
30:46in this universe
30:47that we don't know
30:49to pick up the signs
30:51and interpret the answers
30:55Stefano Mancuso and Lillo
30:57they make us rediscover
30:58in a new and original way
31:00what do you do to reduce
31:01pollution
31:02the beauty that surrounds us
31:04incredible
31:05accompanied by many special guests
31:07HI
31:08these didn't come out well for me
31:10the skin of the world
31:11with Stefano Mancuso and Lillo
31:13from Friday 6 March
31:14at 9.20pm
31:15Rai 3
31:16on RedoVision Channel
31:26Then the phone calls
31:27and many arrive at Orlandi's house
31:29but this phone call
31:30but at Laura's house
31:31at the big house
31:32it's actually strange
31:33why choose
31:34this little girl?
31:36It's actually very strange
31:38because it wasn't
31:39among her friends
31:41more trustworthy
31:41so obviously
31:43there's no reason at all
31:44to go and look for
31:45the big house
31:45the big house says
31:46we had exchanged
31:47the telephone number
31:48that day
31:49Here we take into account
31:51that we already are
31:51in the context
31:52of an investigation
31:53for international terrorism
31:55he is a terrorist
31:56of caliber
31:57because this is what we're talking about
31:58he trusts a number
31:59by phone
32:00in the girl's pocket
32:01he is not able
32:02to map
32:02the closest contacts
32:04to Emanuela
32:04this is strange
32:05then look for
32:06a telephone number
32:07in your pocket
32:08it means that
32:08it's a contact
32:09of that moment
32:10so it's clear
32:11that anyway
32:12it's a young friendship
32:13which does not have
32:13it has no roots
32:14why search
32:15the big house
32:16Here you are
32:17frankly
32:18I believe that
32:18to have it written
32:19a little girl
32:2014 years old
32:21in a letter
32:22then moreover
32:22so important
32:23In my opinion
32:24the reasons are different
32:25I assume they are
32:26the same reasons
32:27that they have induced
32:27the prosecutor's office
32:28to push on her
32:29and then probably
32:30to investigate it
32:31because actually
32:32as he reconstructed
32:33Very well
32:34of the king
32:35there are many
32:36how to say
32:37the changes
32:39in his depositions
32:40At that time
32:41what's happening
32:42that the parliamentary commission
32:44it's going on
32:45there was
32:47precisely
32:48this act
32:48which is heavy
32:50In short
32:50for this girl
32:52that today
32:52she is an adult woman
32:53And
32:54she was investigated
32:56who will enter
32:57Then
32:58in this commission
32:59this character
33:01that all of you
33:01you have known
33:02who decided
33:03to choose
33:04who saw it
33:05to say
33:05I have the flute
33:06by Manuela Orlandi
33:09And
33:10At that time
33:11Marco Accetti
33:12will go to the commission
33:14it is not known exactly
33:15who to tell
33:16but let's see
33:18how many does he have
33:19combined
33:20the service always
33:21of the viato
33:21Francis Paul of the King
33:22and by Imma Giuliani
33:35to stay
33:36about something
33:37more Italian
33:38but always obviously
33:39Oscar-bound
33:40Roberto Benigni
33:48I photograph
33:49director
33:49and also an imitator
33:50this man
33:51that imitates
33:51Roberto Benigni
33:52in an old episode
33:53of one morning
33:54It's Marco Accetti
33:55and will be heard
33:57from the parliamentary commission
33:58of investigation
33:59that investigates
34:00on the disappearance
34:00by Emanuela Orlandi
34:02and Mirella Gregori
34:03she was
34:04in the Orlandi operation
34:06I was one
34:07of the organizers
34:08with regard to
34:10the city of Rome
34:12and one of the telephone operators
34:13this knows
34:14it couldn't be done
34:15kill
34:16in Orlandi
34:17and in Gregori
34:17as
34:19we should have
34:21kill
34:21all the girls
34:23that with them
34:25we have
34:26involved
34:27were involved
34:28other girls
34:29absolutely
34:30Yes
34:32Orlandi had
34:34a girl
34:35of the school
34:35of music
34:36a companion
34:37gives us directions
34:39to find again
34:40a flute
34:40that he himself
34:41he had hidden
34:42in an old man
34:43film establishment
34:45at the gates of Rome
34:46in that place
34:47he tells us
34:48he had slept
34:49Emanuela
34:49after the disappearance
34:50but he put it
34:52she the flute
34:52there?
34:53I put it on
34:54Yes
34:54in '87
34:57the flute
34:59era
35:00simply
35:01a medium
35:02emotional
35:03a medium
35:05if we want
35:06Also
35:07in quotation marks
35:07spectacular
35:09she speaks
35:09of spectacular
35:10flute
35:11emotional
35:12but then
35:13it's a tool
35:14of show
35:15and that's it
35:15it's not the flute
35:16by Emanuela
35:17absolutely
35:19that
35:19from the
35:21of the girl
35:23it's the flute
35:23by Emanuela
35:24does she support?
35:25Yes
35:28it's a hoax
35:30when Fiore di Rienzo
35:31he interviews him
35:32here in front of the court
35:33it's not the first time
35:34that we meet him
35:35You accept
35:35he has already come to the editorial office
35:37and he introduced himself
35:37just like now
35:38we'll show you
35:39telling us that we are
35:40a program
35:41public prosecutor
35:42I had thought
35:43a last resort
35:46to introduce you
35:47from you
35:48which in others
35:49times
35:50all due respect
35:52it's yours
35:52professional sixteenth
35:53I would have been very careful
35:57Why
35:57you are a little
35:58a program
35:59a bit
36:00public prosecutor
36:02Marco Accetti
36:03is he a mythomaniac?
36:05the Rome prosecutor's office
36:06that after his appearance
36:07he had investigated it
36:08for kidnapping
36:09resulting in death
36:11of the hostage
36:11he archives it
36:13and then investigates it
36:14again
36:14but this time
36:15for slander
36:16and self-slander
36:17this accusation too
36:18is archived
36:19but anyway
36:20is he a mislead?
36:22is subjected
36:23to a psychiatric assessment
36:24deemed capable
36:26to understand and want
36:27but described
36:28as affection
36:29from a disorder
36:30of personality
36:31of type
36:31narcissistic
36:32and histrionic
36:34that he was an exhibitionist
36:36a provocateur
36:37and a storyteller
36:38it was clear
36:39even before
36:39that he was looking for
36:40to accredit
36:41as a mind
36:41of the kidnappings
36:42Orlandi and Gregori
36:43for example
36:44when in the early 90s
36:45he was organizing
36:46fake competitions
36:47of beauty
36:47for girls
36:48she is an artist
36:50she takes photographs
36:52he makes art films
36:54so he's used to it
36:55to the staging
36:56let's say
36:57and what does he tell me?
36:59that he is not doing
37:00a performance
37:01a staging?
37:02I was called
37:04to organize
37:07the fact
37:08of Orlandi
37:08and many other facts
37:10which then
37:10the process
37:12I think it will bring
37:13aware
37:13of all
37:14precisely because
37:15in a certain sense
37:17I'm sorry to say it
37:18for my
37:20creative trend
37:22he's talking about cash
37:23of resonance
37:24of spectacular means
37:26of creative trends
37:27it seems like for him
37:29it's all a game
37:30but in his past
37:32there is death
37:32of a child
37:3312 years old
37:34José Garramón
37:35the son
37:36of a diplomat
37:37Uruguayan
37:38who worked in Rome
37:39his mother
37:40Maria Laura
37:41come back to the other side
37:42of the world
37:43to ask for justice
37:44Francis
37:47nothing can be
37:48worse
37:50of what
37:51we have already suffered
37:55I can live
37:56another 30 years
37:59seeking the truth
38:04six months
38:05after the disappearance
38:06by Emanuele Orlandi
38:07little José
38:08he is kidnapped
38:09from the EU
38:09the neighborhood
38:10where he lives
38:11is brought
38:13in the dark
38:13of the pine forest of Ostia
38:1430 kilometers away
38:16from his house
38:16and here
38:17gets hit
38:18from the van
38:19by Marco Accetti
38:26accused of kidnapping
38:27for pedophilic purposes
38:28You accept it comes
38:29arrested
38:30and tried
38:31and the death of José
38:31is considered
38:32a simple accident
38:33road
38:34the conviction for Accetti
38:35manslaughter
38:37and failure to provide assistance
38:38two years and four months
38:39of which part
38:40under house arrest
38:42I didn't notice
38:44Not at all
38:44his justification
38:45I thought
38:46that someone
38:47had thrown me
38:48a stone
38:48breaking my windshield
38:50but after 30 years
38:52tell us
38:53a whole other story
38:54I found
38:55this boy
38:56in my lane
38:58and I couldn't do it
39:00absolutely
39:02Nothing
39:03nothing to avoid it
39:04the impact
39:05I was in the meantime
39:06in company
39:07with another person
39:07we went down
39:08with a small flashlight
39:12and touching
39:14the veins of the neck
39:15we found out
39:16death
39:17and we can't
39:18absolutely
39:19at that moment
39:20let us identify ourselves
39:22because otherwise
39:23we should have
39:24reveal
39:26what we
39:27we did
39:28in that time
39:29of time
39:29in that pine forest
39:31for which
39:31I'm back
39:32Marco Accetti
39:34he doesn't call for help
39:35but run away
39:36little José
39:37could have been saved
39:38and the suspicion
39:40of pedophilia
39:40it's a shadow
39:42that cannot be erased
39:43why a month
39:44before José
39:45You accept
39:46had stopped
39:46another child too
39:48in Corso Vittorio
39:49him too
39:49twelve year old
39:50with the excuse
39:51to take pictures
39:52us
39:53for our pressures
39:55to get
39:56what we asked for
39:58we were dealing drugs
40:01sometimes
40:01for pedophiles
40:03to penetrate
40:04environments
40:06in which
40:06there was a certain
40:07temperature
40:07pedophile
40:09there is a dress
40:10of pedophile
40:11you can dress up
40:13of pedophile
40:14how do you do it?
40:16I know you can
40:18dress
40:19what do I know
40:19Snow White
40:22from superman
40:23but
40:24from a pedophile
40:28feel this
40:29man
40:29say these things
40:31I pretended
40:33of being a pedophile
40:34how to pretend
40:35of being a pedophile
40:39and there is also
40:40another child
40:41that disappears
40:42in 1995
40:43at Christmas
40:44not far away
40:45from the house
40:46by Marco Accetti
40:47Bruno Romano
40:48two years later
40:49You accept it comes
40:50suspected
40:51but never investigated
40:52for this too
40:53on the basis
40:54of a revelation
40:55made by an informant
40:56to the SISDE
40:57she has to deal with
40:58with the disappearance
40:59by Bruno Romano
41:00never met anyone
41:01of Bruno Romano's relatives
41:02I don't know him
41:03and if I had done it
41:05I had been guilty
41:06Garamond
41:07we won't leave it to you
41:08in the street
41:09Bruno Romano
41:10he wouldn't have known
41:11because I know myself
41:12not because it does
41:13crimes done well
41:14but I'm not stupid
41:16up to this point
41:17to do things
41:18so sloppy
41:20and then
41:20let's do it like this
41:21I declare
41:22my guilt
41:25it was me
41:26I killed
41:28Garamond
41:29strangling him
41:30or maybe I don't remember
41:32suffocating him
41:33who knows what
41:34then I put it
41:36in a way
41:37that's why I invested it
41:38go and tell it
41:40come on
41:41actually
41:42little José
41:43he was not suffocated
41:44he was invested
41:45while he was running
41:46or rather
41:47while he was running away
41:48likely
41:49from his captor
41:50and for Bruno Romano
41:53Marco Accetti
41:54didn't he know him?
41:56You accept this time too
41:57denies any involvement
41:59but in time after
42:00the disappearance
42:01take a photograph
42:02this
42:02to an uncle
42:03of little Bruno Romano
42:05the melancholic gypsy
42:08and there's so much more
42:10protagonist in 1972
42:12of a fascist assault
42:13at the Tasso high school in Rome
42:14in 1979
42:16participate
42:17at a demonstration
42:18antimilitarist
42:19dressed as a priest
42:20no conviction
42:22it must be said
42:22before Garamond
42:24his name
42:25it's on the list
42:26by Valerio Verbano
42:27the boy
42:27killed the following year
42:29why he did it
42:29a map
42:30of the extremists
42:31right-wing
42:31in Rome
42:33he does street theater
42:35and then he dedicates himself
42:36to photography
42:37and at the cinema
42:38takes pictures like this
42:39the title is
42:40leave the bodies
42:42and like this
42:43martyr under the altar
42:46invited
42:46many times
42:47to come forward
42:47the young woman
42:49in this photograph
42:50he never contacted us
42:51and then you all remember
42:53toy soldier
42:54his film
42:55with the toy soldier
42:56toy soldier
42:57there is here
42:59Now
43:01I do
43:03a
43:05What
43:06what does it do
43:08gear
43:09backwards
43:11at zero
43:12I quote
43:17Marco accepts
43:18has a place
43:18a nightclub
43:19where it organizes
43:20kids' parties
43:21even minors
43:22with the name of
43:24Alen
43:24he is an animator
43:26and entertains
43:26the public
43:30here once
43:31he handcuffed
43:32a girl
43:3314 years old
43:34and the mother
43:35he reported it
43:35there is a minor
43:37which was
43:37handcuffed by you
43:38in your place
43:39they are handcuffs
43:40plastic toys
43:41tried
43:42acquitted
43:43on the phone
43:45he had told us
43:45that someone
43:46should have
43:47shoot Federica
43:48Sciarelli
43:48the complaints
43:49that I did to her
43:50against
43:50which are very many
43:51all archived
43:53Boys
43:54in this way
43:54my hand is getting armed
43:56if then one day
43:57someone shoots her
43:58My treasure
44:01and now
44:02as a free man
44:03cross the doors
44:04of the palace of San Macuto
44:05and goes to tell
44:06his truths
44:07in front of senators
44:08and deputies
44:27Certain
44:28to be shot
44:29from Accetti
44:29No
44:30a little for charity
44:31At that time
44:31Can I accept?
44:32Yes
44:33Two words
44:35I don't know if he
44:37he knew something
44:38or he knows something
44:39because anyway
44:39after 13 interrogations
44:41and years gone by
44:43he never said
44:43a word
44:44then it would become
44:44whatever happens
44:45a witness
44:46useless
44:47then I would like
44:48once and for all
44:50on the issue
44:51of the similarity
44:52of the voice
44:53because I continuously
44:55I hear people say
44:56then it is confirmed
44:57that Accetti's voice
44:58it's the operator's voice
44:59At home
44:59then I know
45:00and forensic analysts
45:02that they have
45:03they listened to her
45:04they recorded it
45:05and there are few of them
45:06the forensic analysts
45:07officers
45:08we also have consultancy
45:09us
45:09the phone calls made to our home
45:10they don't belong
45:12absolutely
45:13to Accetti
45:14there is no similarity
45:15just a few phone calls
45:16made in August
45:18to the lawyer Egidio
45:19there is similarity
45:20with the voice of Accetti
45:21and they are phone calls made
45:23after August 4th
45:24after the name
45:26by Mirella Gregori
45:27he entered
45:28in this story
45:28in fact the magistrates
45:31what they thought
45:31which unfortunately
45:32he might have had
45:33a role
45:34in the Mirella story
45:35but in his mythomania
45:37when the case of Emanuella
45:39it exploded
45:39from a media point of view
45:40he brought himself
45:41that knowledge
45:42who had
45:42within
45:43of Emanuella's story
45:44and of course though
45:45what he did
45:46what is Garamona
45:47but you will tell him
45:47as little space as possible
45:49I have to say
45:50Yes
45:50At that time
45:51I wanted to conclude
45:52this page
45:53saying
45:53Peter you gave
45:55a battle
45:56very strong
45:57every now and again
45:57then put in the middle
45:58someone
45:58On the contrary
45:59I sometimes
46:00I'm telling you
46:00if I put it in the middle
46:01I put it in the middle
46:02why should it be put in the middle
46:03but I have to tell you
46:04I see you next to me
46:05to your cousin
46:06this means a lot
46:07it means that you
46:08it's the uncle's track
46:09let's say
46:10there was no need
46:11not even if he
46:12he was standing right next to me
46:13but maybe
46:13I don't want to ask him
46:14to him
46:14tell it to you
46:14but I always said
46:16beyond everything
46:17but it also seems to me
46:17a logical thing
46:18I know
46:19that I always aim for
46:20in a certain situation
46:23that is, the Vatican
46:24for 42 years
46:26prefers to suffer
46:27of the doubts of half the world
46:28to defend
46:29my uncle
46:30or to defend
46:32the seducer
46:33No
46:34that is, obviously
46:35there is
46:35something else
46:35but then the strange thing
46:36is that this uncle
46:37comes out
46:37just when it starts
46:38to investigate
46:39but always
46:40instrumentally
46:42I at a certain point
46:43I would say
46:43the word
46:43there are many views
46:44that is, the commission
46:46follows a trail
46:47the prosecutor's office
46:48another one follows
46:48the internal commission
46:49Vatican
46:50another one follows
46:51you see
46:52the question
46:53we didn't talk
46:54of the question
46:55of the house of jazz
46:55that one in my opinion
46:57it's an important thing
46:57I also did
46:58an interview
46:59with Flower
47:00many years ago
47:01we'll talk about it
47:03none of the investigations
47:05he's asking
47:06but what's happening
47:07that is, this is the thing
47:08anomalous
47:09At that time
47:10I thank you
47:11Peter Melendizio
47:12why you
47:12you were in short
47:13always thanks to you
47:15then I want to say
47:16then you explained to us
47:17Very well
47:18in short the cassettes
47:18which have been
47:19taken at your home
47:20they were old
47:21but yes here
47:21the cassettes
47:22I explained them well
47:25alright
47:25but I still see
47:26which have been
47:28take it out
47:29now we are here nearby
47:30on that June 22nd
47:30in Tantare
47:31we are always
47:31going around looking
47:33the BMWs
47:33but over the years
47:34when I go
47:35outside Rome
47:35to have meetings
47:36that is, he accompanies me
47:37that is, at the end
47:39there was no
47:40there is no doubt
47:41there has always been
47:42a bond from the beginning
47:43but of course
47:43it means a lot
47:44it means a lot
47:45thanks Peter
47:46thanks Peter
47:46Thank you, Lawyer
47:47also to have revealed
47:49this mystery
47:50which was no mystery
47:51thank you all
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