- 1 day ago
John Collins and John McKinnon break down how miracle-claims can function as “immunity shields” that protect leaders from scrutiny, shifting authority from Scripture to spectacle. Using William Branham’s own statements as a case study, they trace how signs-and-wonders language can be used to dodge correction, redefine “touch not God’s anointed,” and train followers to treat questioning the leader as questioning God.
They also unpack how “fruit” gets swapped with measurable results (crowds, conferences, healings) and how movements keep people on a replay loop by constantly rehashing past glory stories. The episode ends by mapping these same dynamics onto modern charismatic/NAR ecosystems and outlining practical ways to test claims, weigh doctrine, and resist leader-centered devotion.
00:00 Introduction
03:24 Miracles As A Substitute For Accountability
06:40 Why Untouchable Prophets Become Dangerous
09:33 Branham’s Claims About Prophets Being Beyond Judgment
13:07 “Touch Not God’s Anointed” As An Immunity Shield
18:10 The Shift From God-Centered To Man-Centered Religion
22:47 Fruit Vs. Results In Evaluating Spiritual Leaders
25:38 Why Self-Promotion Works So Well
28:53 Branham’s Claims Of Greater Miracles Than Jesus
32:50 Revival Culture As An Endless Replay Loop
36:46 How Christ Gets Replaced By The Messenger
44:08 Why Failed Prophecy Does Not Always Make People Leave
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
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– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
They also unpack how “fruit” gets swapped with measurable results (crowds, conferences, healings) and how movements keep people on a replay loop by constantly rehashing past glory stories. The episode ends by mapping these same dynamics onto modern charismatic/NAR ecosystems and outlining practical ways to test claims, weigh doctrine, and resist leader-centered devotion.
00:00 Introduction
03:24 Miracles As A Substitute For Accountability
06:40 Why Untouchable Prophets Become Dangerous
09:33 Branham’s Claims About Prophets Being Beyond Judgment
13:07 “Touch Not God’s Anointed” As An Immunity Shield
18:10 The Shift From God-Centered To Man-Centered Religion
22:47 Fruit Vs. Results In Evaluating Spiritual Leaders
25:38 Why Self-Promotion Works So Well
28:53 Branham’s Claims Of Greater Miracles Than Jesus
32:50 Revival Culture As An Endless Replay Loop
36:46 How Christ Gets Replaced By The Messenger
44:08 Why Failed Prophecy Does Not Always Make People Leave
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, researcher, and friend, John McKinnon,
00:46author of The Persuasive Preacher, The Gifted Prophet, and The Noble Politician.
00:51John, it's good to be back.
00:53We have made quite a lot of waves, I guess, through the Pentecostal charismatic community.
01:00I don't know if you've been paying attention to the comment feeds, but there have been a
01:04lot of people who are suddenly starting to connect the dots, and not from a historical
01:09standpoint, but just from a architectural standpoint, I guess you would call it, how all of these
01:16cults seem to have generated the platforms that many of these ministries exist upon, and
01:24it really all comes down to this.
01:26They have pushed the idea that you can have experience over doctrine, but worse than that,
01:32you can have experience over authority.
01:35And I think really that's the key, and a lot of people are starting to recognize.
01:39Through some of the examples you give with Branham, and then as I try to connect it to what we
01:45see today, there are a lot of people who are suddenly starting to realize that this is an
01:50agenda, this is not a religion, and the things that people are doing in this agenda, it's
01:58not quite right.
01:59So I'm a little excited to get back into the one we have today, but just to help the audience
02:07understand, we're not really trying to pick on any of the ministries that exist today,
02:12but instead we're trying to show you how you can critically think about those ministries.
02:18Because in the end, it comes down to this, you're either in Christianity and your hero worship
02:25is worship of Jesus, or you're in something else, some other religion, and your hero worship
02:31is that figure, whether it's Branham or whether it's any of the modern Pentecostal or charismatic
02:36– apostles, prophets, teachers, whatever they call themselves.
02:41So very glad, very excited to get back into this, John.
02:44John Ross While we're doing this, we're not just talking
02:47about historical things here, and we're not just pointing fingers at the past movements.
02:52You know, what we're really doing is identifying the repeatable patterns so that we can identify
02:57when things like this start in the future as well.
03:00Patterns that show up again and again when groups drift from Christianity and form, you
03:06know, a cult.
03:08In earlier episodes, we talked about building the leader's identity through his creation
03:13of the character and then using the storytelling, testimonies to elevate that identity.
03:20Today, we're diving deeper and we're moving into the next stage of this.
03:25This is one of the most dangerous stages of all.
03:28It all falls under the banner of self-promotion and what the dynamics are when that takes place.
03:35I plan to talk about how they use miracles as a way to avoid accountability, how that shifts
03:42from the trusting in God to the trust in the leader.
03:46And remember, we're looking at real examples from history here.
03:50Like, we're examining mostly William Branham's ministry to show how this plays out because
03:55we're most familiar with that, or I am.
03:58And our goal is to expose the tactics so people can spot that in the future and stay grounded
04:04in the truth.
04:05Miracle claims, of course, have been used as substitutes for accountability for a long time.
04:11You know, once a movement reaches the point of being awestruck by the miraculous, the normal
04:16checks and balances, they start to disappear because people start thinking that they're
04:22being vindicated by God because of the phenomena.
04:25The scripture begins to where it can no longer correct the leader.
04:29The leader now begins or has the freedom to even go beyond scriptures.
04:35And this is where many sincere people, you know, get trapped.
04:38They don't think they're rejecting the Bible at all.
04:42They actually think they're honoring God through the person.
04:46But without realizing it, they're being trained to trust man's experience and their experiences
04:51more than God's word.
04:53You know, that's exactly the problem.
04:55I, you know, I don't have a problem so much with the gifts.
04:58I have a problem with the idea that the gifts make the religion and the experience should
05:04supersede any form of doctrine or accountability.
05:06The problem is there are so many ministries that have recognized that if you can tell people
05:14that you can do these miraculous things, you're going to have an instant body of people who
05:20are following you.
05:21And once you do this, you've, you basically become a central figure of a body of people.
05:25Now, whether that turns destructive or not, that's a different question.
05:29But the problem is the experience has become the religion.
05:32And that's really just it.
05:34That when you read the New Testament and you read the Gospels, you don't find that the
05:38experience is the focus.
05:40It isn't about the experience.
05:42But if you listen to any of the ministries that are talking about all of these wonderful
05:46things that people with itching ears come to follow, the problem is they focus on the
05:52experience more than they do the Gospel.
05:54And so it becomes a different thing that they're talking about.
05:57Yes, it somewhat aligns with the Bible.
05:59And they even will go back into the New Testament, into the Gospels, and they'll say, look at
06:04all of these experiences.
06:05But they're missing the broader scope of what the Gospel is.
06:09And so to your average person who is unfamiliar with the Gospel, they think the Gospel is the
06:13experience.
06:14And so it turns into a different religion altogether.
06:17So there's this phrase, don't major on a minor.
06:20And that's, it goes a little bit beyond that.
06:23That's what they're doing.
06:24They're majoring on the minor thing, which is the gifts, but they're also framing it
06:29such that if you don't have the gifts, then you're not part of the elite body of
06:34Christ in some cases.
06:36And the ministries that do that, I think they do pretty well turn destructive.
06:40Darrell Bock So that's right along the same lines as I'm going to speak on.
06:44And yeah, it's absolutely right, John.
06:47And, you know, if a leader says God is visibly, you know, working through them with amazing
06:52signs and wonders, you know, who would dare try to question them?
06:55Who would correct their mistakes or judge their teachings or doctrine even?
07:00You know, this thinking goes way back.
07:02It's very old.
07:03And we see it throughout cult history.
07:06Leaders rise up and they all associate themselves with the old time prophets, biblical prophets
07:13like Moses, Elijah, or Isaiah.
07:16You know, the message becomes prophets were never questioned.
07:21So the leader concludes and exhorts his followers that neither should he be questioned and neither
07:26should he be judged because prophets are never judged.
07:30You know, that's a bad place to put yourself in because now you're above rebuke and you remove
07:36yourself from ever being corrected.
07:38You know, it's bad for the leader.
07:41You really have to be infallible to be in that kind of a place.
07:46And, but that's where these leaders are placing themselves.
07:50You know, the idea of that, you know, it goes totally against the Bible's own warnings.
07:56The New Testament repeatedly, you know, tells us over and over, tells believers to examine
08:01those who claim spiritual authority.
08:04And we're told to test the spirits, to prove all things, to hold fast to what is good, and
08:10to examine the fruit.
08:12You know, in high control groups, you know, these warnings are quietly put aside a lot
08:17of times.
08:18Instead, you know, followers are taught to look for signs, wonders, and supernatural experiences
08:23as proof that what they're doing is right, or the leader is right, or their church is
08:27right.
08:28Even when the teachings plainly contradict scripture.
08:32And we've seen that.
08:34Miracle claims serve the purpose here of replacing accountability.
08:40Because if they can produce the miracles, they can go beyond being accountable to anyone.
08:45You know, if God, for instance, was visibly working through the leader, you know, who's
08:50able to question them?
08:51Because you can't produce what they're producing.
08:54Who could correct him?
08:56Because who are you to say he's not right if you can't produce the miracles?
09:01And then who could judge the doctrine?
09:03You know, to make this clearer, think about it like this.
09:06You know, imagine a teacher in school who says, I don't need to explain my grades because
09:13I have magic powers.
09:16I don't need to explain the grades I'm giving my students because I'm above everything because
09:22of my magical powers.
09:23You know, that sounds very silly, but in cults, it's very similar.
09:27Leaders use their miracle stories to dodge responsibility.
09:33In 1954, I'll read a quote here from God's Provided Way of Healing that William Branham
09:38preached.
09:40And he said, but now you take a person that would a prophet like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Moses,
09:46no one stood before them to judge whether it was right or not.
09:50They were born in the world prophets.
09:53The word of God was with them.
09:55God in sun-dry times, diverse manners spoke to the fathers through the prophets in this
10:00last day through his son, Jesus Christ.
10:02And he is the prophet of the church of this last day is Jesus Christ.
10:07You know, when Brother Branham or William Branham starts to make quotes like this and say these
10:13things in his ministry, he's putting himself in the same category as those high-profile major
10:18biblical prophets like Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, saying, no one judged them, so therefore, who
10:25are you to judge me?
10:27You know, we've heard ministers and movements like this tell people who question them, he
10:31said, if you can produce the miracles, then we'll believe you.
10:35And, you know, we've been criticized over and over by ministers from the pulpit saying
10:41that, you know, who are they to criticize?
10:43They're not producing the miracles.
10:45You know, and they even say these very same words.
10:49If they can show me the miracles, then maybe they've got something to say.
10:53But until they can produce the miracles, you know, they have nothing to say to me.
10:57And we've heard that.
10:59You know, they ignore the Bible's warnings.
11:01You know, brush off William Branham's false prophecies as just human mistakes, you know,
11:06that we can overlook.
11:08And instead, they focus on signs of miracles and the discernment to prove everything is true.
11:14The New Testament warns us at least 20-something times to examine, to test, to check if someone's
11:21claiming to be a prophet is real.
11:23You know, we're to examine the fruits, their actions, and the results.
11:27You know, signs and wonders were never, ever meant to be the only proof if a person can't
11:34stick with Scripture.
11:35If you question William Branham, the response is often, where are your miracles?
11:39We've heard this before over and over again, but Scripture becomes, it's not the final authority
11:46anymore when that happens.
11:47You know, what really matters is that all these signs are talked about over and over again.
11:52They're rehashed in the sermons, and that's what the people are depending on, even though
11:58they're not happening today.
12:00And the Bible becomes something different then.
12:03It becomes a book that you're reading through the prophet, and you have to interpret it through
12:09the prophet.
12:10Just like the LDS church would say, the Bible's only correct as far as it's interpreted correctly.
12:18Or interpreted through our group.
12:22So, in this way, the Bible has to be interpreted through the prophet.
12:26It's not something you can use on your own to test him.
12:30I know this mindset very well because I've lived in it.
12:33You know, when I notice contradictions myself, I didn't confront them a lot of times.
12:38I was content to wonder about them quietly to myself.
12:42And I would tell myself, you know, he's the prophet.
12:45I'm not.
12:46So, he must know something I don't.
12:48You know, that way of thinking, you know, feels humble, but it's actually dangerous to
12:53the person because it shuts down your discernment.
12:56It trains you to distrust your own conscience and your own ability to read Scripture and to
13:01critically think about things.
13:02You know, once that mindset's in place, then miracles actually become immunity shields.
13:08People write in often and they ask, where and how did the phrase, touch not God's anointed
13:14transition from what it says in the Bible to, we can have all of these spiritual leaders
13:19without any accountability whatsoever.
13:21And you can't really pinpoint it down to a specific person.
13:25What you can pinpoint it to is the idea of a person who's starting a movement.
13:30In fact, if you look at many of these Christian movements that have developed today, they all
13:34use that similar language, touch not God's anointed.
13:37And they'll use phrases like, that's a religious spirit, or you're quenching the spirit.
13:42It's the same shield.
13:43It's the same vocabulary today that was used back when Branham was using it.
13:48And Branham wasn't the first.
13:50There were others that I can find like him that are doing the same thing.
13:53Long before him, Dowie was doing the same kind of thing.
13:56Different language as it progresses, but it's really the same effect.
14:00And what they're doing essentially is they're trying to take something that sounds biblical,
14:05because the phrase actually comes from the Bible, but they're taking it slightly out of
14:10its context and ignoring, like you said, all of the other scriptures that says to test the
14:14prophets, test the anointed, make sure the anointed aren't tricking you, basically.
14:19And to the extent there are people, I've had people who are writing in the comment feeds
14:24and say, why are you testing the prophets?
14:26Why are you testing their prophecies?
14:28And then they'll list whatever is the biblical figure, the biblical prophet that they say
14:33had false prophecy.
14:34And they're ignoring Deuteronomy, which says clearly test the prophets.
14:38And the thing that did not happen as the prophet said, that's the thing that God didn't speak.
14:44So it turns into this thing where the prophets are kind of twisting the idea of scripture
14:49into something that becomes, like you said, an immunity shield.
14:53It's a veto.
14:55It isn't really a shield protecting the holiness.
14:58It is something that is protecting the leader from verification to make sure that they are what
15:03they say they are.
15:04And it's a flipping of the burden of proof.
15:08You notice the leaders don't have to prove that their claims are true.
15:12They instead try to prove that the critics are false.
15:16And that's why anytime you and I or any of the other co-hosts, when we start talking about
15:21some of the critical information of each of these ministries, you'll find that those people
15:25will attack us because we point out the critical facts.
15:28And that's really the symptoms of what we're talking about here.
15:33It is a flipping of the burden of proof.
15:36Yeah, John, you laid that out very clearly and right to the point.
15:40You know, demonstrations of signs and wonders was never taught in scripture to be a vindication
15:45of anything if the person did not stay with the scripture.
15:49But if you become emotionally attached, as we talked about in those stories, and you become
15:54emotionally attached to the leader and their way of seeing the Bible, you can read
15:58the scriptures all day long, still ignore the contradictions yourself.
16:03You know, back when I was deep in this kind of thinking, I'd see something that didn't
16:07match up and wonder about it, but then think, you know, they've got to know the scriptures
16:13better than I do because I was still a novice saying the scriptures.
16:16And to add to this, you know, let's think about why people fall for it like that.
16:22It's like being a fan of your favorite sports star and you overlook all the bad games and
16:28the bad plays because of the highlights.
16:30You know, in cults, those highlights are the miracle stories that just keep you hooked and
16:36you forget about the things that you think don't matter.
16:40You know, in practice, you know, when we try to check out these ministries, we really see
16:44how cult leaders handle criticism at that point.
16:47Their followers really attack anyone who questions or anything to do with that and calling it unbelief
16:54for jealousy or persecution even.
16:57And if a miracle doesn't happen, they blame it on someone's lack of faith, not the leader's wrong claims.
17:04It turns miracles into shields, you know, that really protect the leader from any blame.
17:10Miracles become the unbreakable shield.
17:13It reminds me of, you know, kids on a playground who say, you know, you can't tag me because
17:17I have an invisible force field in front of me.
17:22It's dangerous to think of it in these terms because it really shuts down conversation.
17:28People stop thinking critically and just follow blindly.
17:31You know, to supplement what you said also, outside the history of William Branum, you know,
17:36other figures like Jim Jones, David Koresh, you know, they use miracles and visions to say,
17:42don't question me, God speaks through me.
17:45It creates this bubble and the leader becomes untouchable.
17:49And the emotional tie, people get so emotionally tied to their leader, they just fall in love with
17:56them and then they can ignore all the red flags because their feelings are so strong.
18:01It's just like being in love.
18:03You can overlook the faults of your partner because you're so in love with them.
18:10So now we're going to move on to the fourth thing we want to mention that moves the leader
18:15from being God-centered or the movement from being God-centered to man-centered.
18:20There's a shift from saying, God is doing this in my ministry to now you can trust me to tell
18:27you the truth because you've seen these things.
18:30You know, at first it all sounds like it's from God because they say, look at what God has done.
18:35But over time it changes to, because God's doing this through me, you must trust me.
18:40This proves the message is right.
18:43It's classic circular logic really.
18:45It's like a loop that goes nowhere.
18:48It kind of works like this, you know, God proves the leader with signs and miracles, wonders and
18:53prophecies.
18:54Then the leader decides on his own what counts as a real miracle and ignores the ones that fail.
19:01And questioning the leader then becomes like questioning God.
19:03And so then you're back to the loop again that he has the signs and the wonders.
19:09So it's like a death spiral.
19:11The only way is to step back and compare what the actual Bible says.
19:16So it's that circular reasoning.
19:19When you question what's happening, people say, well, you're questioning God because God's
19:23doing the miracles.
19:24The leader is the one that has decided on his own what's truth and what's not.
19:29So you can't question him.
19:31But then you go back and see the sign and wonder and you say, well, that's of God.
19:36So the leader must be of God.
19:37So you never get out of that spiral.
19:41Let's hear another quote here now from 1961.
19:45And Abraham in his seat after him, William Branham says, you call me your a prophet.
19:51I never call myself that.
19:52You do.
19:53And where did the word of the Lord come to?
19:56What does the word prophet mean?
19:57A divine revelator of the divine written word.
20:02Then you have your own interpretation and take it above the real word.
20:06Signs and wonders prove whether it's right or not.
20:09God told them how to do it, tell it.
20:12If what they say comes to pass, then it's right.
20:14If it isn't, it isn't.
20:15Now you be your own judge.
20:17So we see right here, William Branham is now saying, he's alluding to the fact, well,
20:21I didn't call myself a prophet, but you did.
20:23So I'm going to take that mantle.
20:26And look here, the signs and wonders that's been happening, they prove it's right.
20:31And then he said, you be your own judge to that.
20:33But they've ignored all the old, the false prophecies.
20:37They've ignored the failures.
20:40In 1964, questions and answers, number two, he says this, if you would believe me to be
20:46what you say, God's servant, a prophet, listen to what I'm telling you.
20:50You might not be able to understand it.
20:52And if you can't, then you just do what I tell you to do.
20:56God will hold me responsible for what I say.
20:58See, you listen real close and remember that these things are spirit.
21:02Ordinarily, maybe the person don't, you remember God covered with skin.
21:06I preached not long ago, God with skin on it.
21:10Now just remember, some of us are sent to this world to break into these realms and to
21:15tell us these things.
21:16Listen to what he's saying here.
21:18He's getting into realms where he's saying, I'm God with skin on it.
21:22I'm now the God who has skin on it standing before you.
21:27He's alluding to that.
21:28He's alluding to that God's allowed him to break into these realms and also says, if
21:34you just don't understand it, you just listen to me and do what I say and believe what I'm
21:38telling you.
21:39All of your discernment goes out the window at that point because as we've shown, he's
21:45shown his character.
21:47He's developed his character.
21:49He has gone forth and promoted himself and his ministry and now he's got the people emotionally
21:56tied to his stories and now he can start to interject these thoughts to them.
22:01Is that you may not understand what I'm telling you about the Bible, but believe it anyway.
22:06Let your discernment go out the window and believe what I'm telling you because look at
22:11these miracles.
22:12They're proving that what I'm saying, you know, is the truth.
22:17It's exactly what we're talking about here, John.
22:19So it might take months or years for people to hear and understand what we're saying here
22:23today.
22:24But I think getting this information out there really matters.
22:27I think lives can be changed when the truth spreads.
22:30You know, to build on that, you know, think about how social media works today.
22:34Viral stories spread fast.
22:37But deep truth, you know, it takes a while to set in.
22:40And so we're just planting seeds here today, I believe.
22:44And hopefully they will produce fruit at some point.
22:47Darrell Bock There's so much to unpack there.
22:49You know, one of the problems that has happened is, and Branham is one of many who've done this,
22:55they have taken fruit and they've swapped it with results.
22:58And you have to be really careful when you do this because fruit isn't crowd size or views
23:02or healings or conferences, these kind of things.
23:06Fruit is character.
23:07And, you know, you can read through the biblical fruits of the spirit and they're not this.
23:11They're not crowd size.
23:13But yet, William Branham, whenever people, I've had people contact me and they say,
23:19Branham, who claimed to be a prophet, was vindicated because of his healings.
23:23Well, no, you're assigning the wrong fruit to the wrong thing.
23:27A prophet is vindicated by his prophecy.
23:29A healer would be vindicated by his healings.
23:32You can't mix the two.
23:33And so there becomes this obscuring of the lines of what fruit means in this ministry.
23:41And it all comes down to this.
23:43I want to emphasize something that you said earlier.
23:45You were talking about how it's, you know, the defining, the definition of the person speaking
23:52becomes blurred with the God because they're pretending to be God in human flesh.
23:57I remember making this argument early on, and there would be people who would defend Branham
24:03and they would say, no, Branham never said he was God, which is kind of true.
24:08There's one instance where he actually does towards the end of his life.
24:121965.
24:13He actually does.
24:14But you have to understand what he's saying.
24:16But for the most part, he didn't.
24:18But what he did was he would say, if you're disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with
24:24God.
24:25If you're disagreeing with the fruits of my spirit and he defined what the fruits are,
24:29then you're disagreeing with God.
24:31And so it's flipped to the negative.
24:34Whenever a person does this, they are essentially insinuating their God.
24:39They may not be coming out outright and saying it, but they are insinuating that this is God.
24:45Look at me.
24:45I'm God in the flesh.
24:47And if you question it, you're questioning God.
24:49And that's really the key to understand.
24:52If they can convince the people that questioning their authority or questioning their ministry
24:57is questioning God, then they have just declared they are God without even saying it.
25:03They can and they can double talk.
25:05They can double speak and say things like, now, don't don't believe those people that
25:09think that I am God.
25:10Those people are wrong.
25:11Branham himself did this.
25:13But then he would say, if you question me, you're questioning God.
25:16So he's doing the same exact thing.
25:18He's just flipped the results.
25:19And like you said, it winds up into the circular reasoning.
25:23Exactly right, John.
25:24That's so true.
25:25And it's so important that what we're exposing here, these things now, you know, because like
25:31I said, it might be a long time before, you know, people really get a hold of this that
25:36are still trapped into these movements.
25:39But we hope that one day they will.
25:41Well, so why is self-promotion strategy so effective?
25:45We're going to go into that right now.
25:46First of all, it's necessary.
25:49It has to be necessary for this movement to succeed because people only pay attention to
25:55the noise makers.
25:56You know, if you're quietly to the side doing the work of the Lord and not making a big fuss
26:00about it, you may be doing great things for the Lord, but you don't have to go promote
26:04yourself.
26:05People don't usually notice that.
26:07It's only the people making a lot of noise that gets noticed.
26:12And there's a lot of phenomena happening in the ministry that gets noticed.
26:16I don't doubt that at all.
26:17But even if these men were sincere, the cult leaders really start to think more highly of
26:24themselves than they should have, and they begin to elevate themselves above churches
26:28even and to maintain their uniqueness.
26:30They have to go further and further out and be further and further with the phenomena and
26:35the teaching.
26:37And it gets them further away from the word.
26:39And I believe that's a driving factor is actually their egos.
26:42They may not show it because they may try to show a humility, but I believe deep down there's
26:48some kind of ego there that's pushing them to, you know, want to be known.
26:52Each of them had a desire to be known in a great way, and I believe they, for the most
26:58part,
26:58got what they wanted.
26:59Some went down in shame, and some are still being promoted as the prophet to the age.
27:08So it works because emotional persuasion is very fast, and it's much faster in reaching
27:17people than doctrinal evaluations or persuasions.
27:20You know, these stories we've been talking about help to bypass critical thinking because
27:24it engages the people, and they have awe, and they experience the emotions of hope and
27:29fear and joy.
27:31And if William Branham had just focused on teaching and doctrine and healing, the common
27:36salvation, he probably never would have risen to the level of what he became.
27:41This emotional connection that we gain with him through storytelling was key there.
27:47It was a fast track to his stardom, and people can relate to the leader in some ways.
27:54They often look for ways they can see the same things happening in their lives as some
27:58identification with the leader, like wearing the same belt buckles, like eating shimps red
28:04hot candy, you know, becoming a wilderness man, enjoying hunting and fishing.
28:10Anything people with emotional ties with the leader can do to be more like the leader
28:15makes that tie even stronger because then they're convinced God will love me more if
28:21I love the things the prophet likes or do the things he does.
28:24You know, people equate power with truth.
28:27Miracles create the impression also that results equals righteousness.
28:33You know, again, I would say that miracles are never to be relied upon as absolute vindication.
28:39There are thousands of miracle workers out there, but that doesn't make them divine interpreters
28:44of the word of God.
28:45You know, God can work through anyone, but never would he take his word out of context and
28:51how it was written.
28:53I'm going to read a quote here from 1950, take the rod and gather the people that William
28:57Branham spoke.
28:59He said, just think, friends, that in my ministry that I have had from the Lord alone, I've seen
29:04many, many times, and he said, many, many, many times more miracles performed than is written
29:10in the Bible that Jesus Christ has done in these three years in one unit, one group of his
29:15ministry, one group.
29:16He's done more miracles than has been written in the Bible.
29:20And in 63, he said this in the sermon token.
29:24He said, just what I've seen in my own ministry, seen him done, you couldn't pile the volumes
29:29on this platform here.
29:30If I wrote in details what I've seen him do, just in my own ministry, seen him do it, see,
29:36he had more success in my ministry than he did his own.
29:39This is right.
29:40This is recording.
29:42Now, remember, he had more success now, not me.
29:44He had, glory hallelujah, he had more success in Jeffersonville.
29:48Jeffersonville, then he did in Nazareth.
29:50Wow, that's just crazy.
29:53These quotes are eye-openers, John, that claim he more success than Jesus.
29:59You know, that's, to me, that's a red flag of their egos taking over.
30:02He might try to attribute the miracles to Jesus, but didn't he say that the prophet of the day
30:09is the Lord Jesus Christ and will come through a prophet or the, as the word of the Lord
30:13always comes through the prophet.
30:15So, he really is the Jesus Christ of the day, is through him and his ministry.
30:21You know, in psychology, you know, this is called the halo effect.
30:25If someone seems powerful in one area, we assume they're just right in everything.
30:31And so, celebrities, a lot of times, can sell products because we trust them more than what
30:38that product can actually do.
30:40You know, if they're some great football star or whatever, they can really sell a product
30:45to us and it may or may not have any effect on us.
30:49You know, another factor here is the testimony that they give feels humble, even when it's self-exalting.
30:56You know, they say God did it, but that can mask the fact that the speaker is still promoting himself
31:02underneath the scenes.
31:05In 1951, in the Sermon of My Commission, William Branham said,
31:09But when the angel of the Lord moves down, it becomes then a voice of God to you.
31:14Maybe if I offended you by saying that, forgive me, but I felt it might have been resented.
31:20But I am God's voice to you, see?
31:22I say that again.
31:23That time was under inspiration, you see?
31:26And I felt bad about it the first time, but it repeated it.
31:30So, what he's saying there is that God was speaking through him at the time,
31:34saying that the words he's actually speaking is truly God's spoken word,
31:39directly from the throne of God, God's voice to you.
31:43And I would say that every time, if that were true, it should have come to pass.
31:48Every time he spoke healing over someone, they should have been healed.
31:52But we know there's hundreds and hundreds of cases where that didn't happen.
31:58So, to say something like this would say that it sounds humble, but really it's self-exalting.
32:06So, another factor is success of the ministry reinforces the belief of the people.
32:12Early growth of that ministry convinces followers that they're witnessing something great happening and divine approval.
32:20Repeating the stories of the successes to future generations keep this reinforcement going.
32:27And that's what you hear over and over is the repeating of these same stories of what happened in days
32:33gone by.
32:33And it keeps the movement on the treadmill, rehashing everything God did in the past.
32:39And believers fill their minds with this, and then they begin to live in the past.
32:45Unless they do a full examination, John, they will just continue down this path and on the same treadmill.
32:50Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter
32:59reign, charismatic, and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation?
33:04You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org.
33:11On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,
33:19John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
33:25You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements.
33:32If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the
33:38top.
33:39And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or
33:45watching.
33:45On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
33:50I couldn't help but think through all of the different revivals that I have been studying.
33:55Whenever you're talking about how it's just in this endless loop, that's really what this is.
34:00This is an endless replay loop.
34:02You have these ministries that are—take, for example, you've got the Lakeland Revival.
34:06Before that, Brownsville, Toronto Blessing.
34:09You have all the tent revivals.
34:10You can go back through time, and you can find at some point in time, there's somebody who steps up
34:16and says,
34:16Give me a crowd.
34:17Give me a lot of money and tithe through this crowd.
34:20And I am going to bring you to the point where we are spiritually significant enough that Jesus will return.
34:28And that's backwards.
34:29That's not how this works.
34:30If you study the Bible and you study what is Christianity,
34:34you really begin to understand that what they're doing is the opposite of Christianity.
34:38Christianity isn't about trying to summon God.
34:41You don't summon God.
34:43Many of the religions I won't talk about summon their gods, maybe.
34:48But the Christian God, that's not how this works.
34:50And so what it turns into is this endless—you call it a treadmill—but it's this endless replay loop.
34:55Let's try it, and it's going to work this time.
34:57And then next time, after that fails, let's try it again.
35:00It didn't work the last time.
35:02Let's try it another time.
35:04We're expecting that we're going to try it again,
35:06and we're going to get different results than we did last time.
35:09And that's purely the definition of insanity.
35:12If you try to create the same exact scenario over and over and over again and expect different results,
35:19that's really the definition of insanity.
35:22So the movement is developing in such a way that it becomes more and more insane when you look at
35:28it.
35:28And this replay loop, it's a constant reinforcement of the leadership, not a reinforcement of God.
35:35For me, that's really the big problem.
35:38I don't have a problem so much with a bunch of people gathering together and saying,
35:41hey, let's have a revival.
35:43Jesus might come.
35:44We want to get better in the Spirit.
35:46We want to get more in tune with the Spirit.
35:48That's good.
35:49That's what all religions do to some extent.
35:52But the way that they have shaped it is such that we're gathering together because we have this significant leader
35:59on the platform.
36:01And that's really the problem here.
36:03The focus isn't on Jesus or even – I know they're calling it revival, but the focus really isn't even
36:08on the revival.
36:09In many cases, it's more about the guys who are on stage.
36:12And that's hero worship.
36:14So, John, that's another good point.
36:16It's so great that we're going through this because I know it's opening some eyes.
36:22But, you know, adding to what we just said, you know, studies on cults show that when groups focus on
36:27their past glories,
36:29it stops growth and hides their problems, their current problems that they have.
36:34It's like living in a museum instead of the real world here.
36:38So, we're going to go into another outcome, the final outcome of what happens here when you have self-exaltation.
36:47What eventually happens here is Christ, who should be the most important figure in our church world,
36:54and the one that we worship and who is God,
36:59he actually becomes displaced by the messenger.
37:03You know, in the end, these movements do not openly deny Christ,
37:07but they redefine the access to Christ.
37:10How do you get born again?
37:12How do you receive God's favor?
37:15Christ becomes known through the leader.
37:18So, you have to be introduced to William Branham to have the full Christ.
37:25He has to be interpreted.
37:27Christ has to be interpreted by the leader.
37:31The message people will tell you over and over again, well, the message is Christ.
37:36And, Christ has to be validated by the leader's experiences.
37:40If you're not experiencing what the message is doing,
37:43then you're not experiencing the real Christ.
37:46Because they will declare to you that Christ cannot be experienced in a denomination.
37:52You know, the leader becomes functionally indispensable at that point.
37:56And that's what's happened to every cult.
37:58Without the leader's interpretation of the Bible,
38:01the followers just feel lost and have no foundation because they're not well-grounded in truth.
38:07No one can be called a bride member in the message of William Branham
38:11without confessing that William Branham was the prophet to the age.
38:15And everything else that comes with that statement.
38:20It's almost like a creedal confession at that point of faith for the message.
38:25It can be said this way.
38:27You know, I believe there's one God and William Branham is his prophet.
38:31Or, as my former pastor used to say,
38:35he said,
38:36I know what I know because God sent a prophet.
38:40You know, in all these things, John,
38:42it just shows you how it creeps from one degree to another
38:47until, finally, that's what we said.
38:49The prophet gets on the throne
38:51and Christ is taken down off his throne.
38:54And that's the wrong way to build.
38:57And it's the wrong foundation.
38:59And it's the foundation that will eventually crumble under its own weight.
39:03So, in the conclusion of all this,
39:06you know, the consistent lesson of what we've just studied is this.
39:09If a movement is built on miracles
39:12and man's experiences and man's stories
39:15to tie you emotionally to it
39:17rather than Christ's finished work,
39:19the authority shifts from heaven down to earth.
39:24It goes from the heavenly to the earthly.
39:27You know, self-promotion is disguised as testimony
39:31as one of the most powerful tools used in cult formation
39:36because it feels spiritual.
39:38It sounds humble.
39:39It appears like you're honoring God through it,
39:42yet quietly is training people to trust this man
39:46and trust this man's experiences more than God's Word,
39:49more than you would trust God's Word
39:51because then he can go contrary to the Word,
39:53as we've seen in many places and pointed out,
39:56and you won't even notice it.
39:58The sad truth is that a majority of Christians
40:01do not read their Bible.
40:03And those who do,
40:04they read it often through what the speaker is telling them
40:06that they should believe is in it,
40:08which is really odd when you think about it.
40:10I, for 37 years, I did this.
40:13I read the Bible.
40:14I read it daily, constantly, many times.
40:16It was multiple times per day.
40:18But when I was reading it,
40:19I was reading it through the context
40:21of what Branham told me was in it
40:22or the minister that I was hearing at the time.
40:25And I was never really reading it
40:27for just simply what it said.
40:29But worse than that,
40:30I wasn't really studying it
40:33to understand what it was saying,
40:35why and how.
40:36And it's a lot of work.
40:37You have to understand the culture
40:39behind what's being said.
40:40You have to understand
40:41not just what the writer's telling you,
40:43but sometimes you have to compare it
40:45with other passages.
40:46And this can turn into a lot of work.
40:49The difference between back then,
40:51whenever I was doing this,
40:52and today, now you have
40:54all of these modern tools
40:55like Bible Hub and whatnot.
40:57You can just go on the internet
40:59and you can type in
41:00and you don't even have to have
41:01one of those thick Strong's Concordances
41:03like I've got in the room back there.
41:05I don't have to use this anymore.
41:07I just type in the verse
41:08and it will give me,
41:09here's the numbers
41:10from Strong's Concordance.
41:11Here's what the word means.
41:13Here's what it meant in Greek or Hebrew.
41:15I mean, the study tools
41:17have gotten now so insanely easy
41:20that you really don't have to have
41:21a person who is so advanced
41:24telling you what it means.
41:26But go back in time
41:27to these tent revivals.
41:29Even during that time,
41:30there were tools available
41:32and people who were even
41:34on the platform teaching it
41:35weren't using the tools.
41:36They didn't even understand
41:37what was in it.
41:38So there were cases
41:39where you had people
41:40in the revivals
41:41who had studied their Bibles
41:44and knew that some of the things
41:45being said was just
41:46completely, utterly nonsense.
41:48So you've got this massive
41:50crowd of people
41:51and you've got this
41:51percentage of the people
41:53that just disagree
41:54with what's being said.
41:56All the photographs
41:57that you see of the revivals,
41:59it includes both.
42:00And then after the revival,
42:02those people who realized
42:03that these guys don't know
42:04what they're talking about,
42:05they left.
42:07But if you look at the magazines,
42:09that number included
42:10the people who realized
42:11that what they're saying
42:12wasn't true.
42:12But it was advertised like,
42:14look at this great revival,
42:15look at this great ministry.
42:17And it just continues to grow
42:19because of this fact.
42:21But like I said,
42:22the problem is people
42:23don't study their Bibles
42:24enough to know
42:25when the speaker's saying
42:26something that isn't true
42:27and the speakers
42:28are getting away with it.
42:30So it becomes this,
42:31it gets to the point where,
42:32you know,
42:33if you've got some person
42:34who's lazy
42:35and just really doesn't even care
42:37what's in the Bible,
42:38they care more about
42:39the numbers,
42:39the crowd,
42:40the emotion,
42:41the spirit,
42:42doing the stuff,
42:43as they call it.
42:44When you get that type
42:46of person in there,
42:47you end up with
42:49exactly what Branham said.
42:50I don't know the book
42:51real well.
42:52I just know the author.
42:53And that's how,
42:54that's literally
42:55what shaped the movement,
42:56that statement
42:57that Branham made.
42:57I don't know the book
42:59real well.
42:59I know the author.
43:00And yet many consider Branham
43:02to be a Bible teacher.
43:03That's really the problem.
43:04He isn't teaching the Bible.
43:06He is teaching the emotion.
43:08He's teaching the characteristics
43:10of what he calls
43:11and considers to be spirit.
43:13But he's doing it
43:14under the authority
43:14of touch not God's anointed.
43:17Whatever I say is,
43:18goes and you can't question it.
43:21That's really,
43:22that's the framework
43:23that was laid.
43:24And if you look at today's
43:25modern new apostolic reformation,
43:26you will see that
43:27that exact framework
43:28has been replicated
43:30and replicated
43:31and replicated.
43:32But each time,
43:34each iteration
43:34that it recycles,
43:36it gets just slightly worse.
43:37So what Branham created
43:39is now developed
43:40into something
43:41so far worse
43:41than even Branhamism
43:43that, honestly,
43:44this movement scares me.
43:45You know,
43:46where Christ alone
43:47is sufficient,
43:48then no man at all
43:49needs to be extraordinary,
43:51not even Paul the Apostle.
43:54So, John,
43:55you know,
43:55I think that's all
43:56we have time for today.
43:57And that just finishes up
43:58part two.
43:59But now we've laid
44:00the foundation here.
44:01We've laid the foundation
44:03of how to create your cult
44:05by creating your character,
44:07then promoting yourself
44:08here in these four episodes.
44:09And we're going to look
44:11behind the scenes
44:11next time
44:12at the truth
44:13behind these claims.
44:15I'm going to use examples
44:16from William Branham's ministry
44:19and show false prophecy
44:21should be the clearest reason
44:23to leave a cult as anything.
44:25And we can easily show
44:26false or unprovable prophecies
44:28in these ministries.
44:29But the amazing thing is
44:31the majority of people
44:32do not leave
44:33and most will even
44:34lock themselves
44:35into a group
44:35even more
44:37when prophecies fail.
44:38That was one of the first books
44:40I read
44:41and that was from a study
44:42about 50 years ago
44:43of this phenomenon
44:44that we may talk about
44:46next time.
44:46You know,
44:46false prophecy,
44:47though it's very clear,
44:49as with the Jehovah Witnesses
44:52setting the dates
44:53or, you know,
44:54other claims
44:55made by other ministries
44:56that never came to pass.
44:58It can be so clear.
45:00It's not enough
45:01to make people
45:01who've been indoctrinated
45:02and emotionally attached
45:04or have so much invested
45:06in the movement
45:07to leave the group.
45:08You know,
45:09instead,
45:10they just invest more.
45:12They promote
45:13and recruit
45:13with more effort
45:15and evangelize more
45:16and hold on
45:17with everything they have.
45:20So there's much more
45:21to talk about here.
45:22So we're looking forward
45:23to next time, John.
45:24Yeah, I'm excited for it.
45:25There's so much
45:26to talk through.
45:27I was thinking
45:27as you were talking,
45:29whenever this revival culture
45:32created the notion
45:33that the leaders
45:33were more in tune
45:34with God
45:35than the people.
45:36What this does
45:37is this makes a person
45:38so puffed up
45:39and filled them themselves.
45:40They think they're
45:41so in tune with God
45:42that they know exactly
45:43when Jesus is coming.
45:45And this continues
45:46to happen over
45:46and over and over.
45:48Branham is famous
45:49for his 1977
45:50Doomsday date,
45:52but we've mapped out,
45:54you can go on the website
45:55and you type in Doomsday,
45:56you can find that
45:57he is giving
45:58the Doomsday predictions
46:00almost continuously.
46:02And he's not
46:03the only one doing it.
46:04The entire movement,
46:05I mean, remember,
46:06this is hundreds of people
46:08who are gathered behind him
46:09supporting him
46:10as leaders in the movement.
46:12And each one of those hundreds,
46:13some of them spun off
46:14into their own cults,
46:15some of them had
46:16their own Doomsday predictions.
46:17And it just,
46:18it's a cycle
46:19that continues and continues.
46:21And that's going forward.
46:22If you go backwards,
46:23you're going to find
46:24in the Pentecostal movement
46:25several examples
46:27where people are,
46:29Sanford,
46:29Frank Sanford,
46:30who was one of the
46:31precursors to Pentecostalism,
46:32he knew the,
46:34I think,
46:34right down to the minute.
46:35And his entire group
46:36got up on the rooftops
46:38waiting for the rapture
46:39to take them to heaven.
46:40And it didn't happen.
46:41And so then the next guy comes,
46:43he does it.
46:44The next guy comes,
46:45he does it.
46:45Or girl.
46:46There were some females,
46:47I think,
46:47that had the same thing.
46:49Forward and backward
46:50through time,
46:51if you can tell a person,
46:53if you can enable a person
46:54to believe that they're
46:55so filled with the Spirit
46:56that they're in tune with God,
46:58they're going to say things
46:59and do things
47:00that normal people
47:01just don't do.
47:02And for me,
47:03it really comes back
47:05to the question
47:05about the sanity
47:06of the movement.
47:07If you can get people
47:09to that level
47:10where they're going to say,
47:11God's coming,
47:12he told me,
47:13I know it's happening,
47:14I know when it's happening.
47:16This is a problem.
47:17And if you go forward
47:18from Branhamism,
47:20not many people are aware of this.
47:21Look at Chuck Smith.
47:22Chuck Smith,
47:23who started the Jesus movement,
47:24Chuck Smith had a doomsday date.
47:27No matter where you go,
47:28forward or backwards,
47:29this movement created something
47:31that is trying to summon Jesus,
47:33enabling the key figures
47:36in the movement
47:36to become heroes
47:37and hero worship.
47:38And in the end,
47:39for me,
47:40it is just not
47:41the Christian religion.
47:42This is spun off
47:44into something else.
47:45They themselves say
47:46that we don't like
47:47the Christian religion.
47:48It's cold and formal.
47:49We want something new.
47:50And they created something new.
47:52But what they created,
47:53I question whether
47:54it's actually Christianity.
47:56Absolutely, John.
47:57Just wrapping up
47:58on that note is perfect.
47:59We've got so much more
48:01to cover in the future
48:02episodes we're going to do here.
48:03We're going to get
48:04into the details
48:05and of some false prophecies
48:07and really clearly show those.
48:10And these all surround
48:11the ministry of William Branham,
48:12of course.
48:13We're going to show
48:14the fake supernatural claims.
48:17We're going to show
48:18where scriptures
48:19were perverted.
48:20They were perverted.
48:22And that's just it.
48:23Like I said,
48:24you had hundreds
48:25of ministers
48:25and evangelists
48:26who were supporting Branham.
48:28Each one of those people
48:29claiming that they're
48:30either a Bible teacher
48:31or they're so in tune
48:32with the Spirit
48:33that they know
48:34what's being said.
48:35And yet the scriptures
48:36are perverted.
48:37It shows me
48:38that the movement
48:38really didn't care
48:40about the Bible.
48:41The Bible took second place
48:42to the experience.
48:44They cared about
48:45the experience.
48:45And whenever you get
48:46that many people in
48:47and you get that type
48:48of revenue flowing,
48:49the experience
48:50and the revenue
48:51really take priority.
48:52And that's really
48:53the sad part about this.
48:55Showing Branham
48:56as a false prophet
48:57I think is key
48:57because if you understand
48:59that Branham's prophecies
49:01were failing
49:02and the people
49:03who were supporting him
49:04would have been aware,
49:06that's where this becomes
49:07really problematic
49:08because now you've got
49:09a movement
49:09who is generating revenue,
49:11who doesn't care
49:12that the things being said
49:13are heretical.
49:15and at the same time
49:17they're uplifting a person
49:18claiming that he's a prophet
49:20knowing that his prophecies
49:22were failing.
49:23It shows that they really
49:24don't even care about prophecy.
49:26It's more about a movement
49:27to generate revenue.
49:29And I think that's just
49:30really the problem here.
49:32And I want to get down
49:33to the very inner motives
49:35of where William Branham
49:37was encouraging other ministers
49:38to promote his life story
49:40and his claims
49:41of being a peculiar child
49:42born to be the prophet
49:44to this age exclusively.
49:47So really looking forward
49:48to it, John.
49:49And, you know,
49:50this is going to get down
49:51to the egos,
49:54to the nitty-gritty,
49:55so we can really understand
49:57how cults form.
49:58That's the whole purpose of this.
50:00So looking forward to it.
50:01Absolutely.
50:02Well, if you've enjoyed our show
50:03and you want more information,
50:04you can check us out on the web.
50:05You can find us at
50:06william-branham.org.
50:08For more about Roy Davis
50:09and William Branham,
50:10you can read
50:11The Persuasive Preacher,
50:12the Gifted Prophet,
50:13and the Noble Politician.
50:14And for more about
50:15the dark side
50:16of the New Apostolic Reformation,
50:17you can read
50:18Weaponized Religion
50:19from Christian Identity
50:20to the NAR.
50:21Available on Amazon,
50:23Kindle, and Audible.
51:11The哦 ihrer state
51:12The New Apostolic Reformation,
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