Seven Mountains and the Business of Missions: How Land Became the Strategy | Jenny McGrath | 554 - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

John and Jenny examine how the Seven Mountains Mandate reshapes modern missions, shifting the focus from serving communities to acquiring land, assets, and long-term institutional power. Drawing from firsthand experiences and historical context, they explore how missionary organizations build self-contained bases, create dependency, and reshape local economies under the language of discipleship.  The conversation traces how business models, donor funding, short-term mission programs, and global networks intersect with dominion theology, raising hard questions about exploitation, transparency, and the real cost to communities on the ground. Rather than abstract theology, the discussion exposes how ideas translate into property, influence, and control across nations.  Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:18 Missions Vs. Land Ownership And Asset Strategy 04:02 Jenny’s Uganda Experience And The Oil-Tycoon Meetings 06:50 How Business Networking Models Scale Inside Religious Spaces 10:21 Development, Capital, And The Local Labor Problem 16:15 Frank Sanford Parallel: “Preaching At Territory” Dynamics 18:08 The Base Economy: Schools, Rent, And Free Labor 25:20 Uganda, The Religious Right, And The 10/40 Battleground Framing 27:43 Resource Break: Website And Books Mention 28:46 Assets, Influence, And The Zimbabwe Example 33:41 Seven Spheres Origin Story And The 1975 Meeting Claim 36:15 Monopoly Logic: Phases Of Asset Accumulation And Monetization 43:32 Dependency, Prosperity Optics, And Centralized Power 46:47 The Insular Bubble: Eastern Uganda Base As A Self-Contained Ecosystem 49:42 Closing Reflections And What Ethical Partnership Could Look Like  ______________________ Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Jenny McGrath, founder

00:46of Indwell Movement.

00:48Jenny, it's good to finally be back, and I don't know how it is where you are, but it

00:53is freezing cold here, so I've got my little heater blowing under my foot, and hopefully

00:57it's not too loud for the microphone, but anyway, good to be back, and this topic that

01:03you've chosen for today, I've been wanting to dive into it, but I wanted you to be ready

01:08to talk about it, and that is to, from multiple aspects, study the Seven Mountains Mandate.

01:15I know today we're going to be talking about as it relates to the land and the mission overall,

01:20but we could also talk about the psychological aspects, how does it affect kids if the kids

01:26are raised in this type of mentality, there are the political aspects, there are the skewing

01:32of politics, there's like a thousand podcasts we could do on the subject, but today we'll

01:38talk about the land, and there's some interesting things if you really think about what's happening

01:43with the missions.

01:44Absolutely, yeah, I'm really excited to be back here with you and to dive in. I feel both

01:51ready and daunting, it feels daunting to talk about this, because it is such a big topic, and

01:58it feels so loud in our world right now, and so that also tells me that it's really important

02:05for us to engage, and I think there's so many ways that we could engage it, but I think this

02:12is a good way to ease into the conversation.

02:16That's the odd part about all of this. You know, whenever I first came across youth with

02:20a mission, somebody said I should look into it, and they were very neutral, they just said

02:25John, you should look into it. When I first saw it, I saw a bunch of missionaries, and

02:29I saw that they were doing things with the youth. This potentially could be good, right, if it's

02:34not a destructive thing, it could be good. But the more I found out, the more I'm just

02:39kind of scratching my head. Talking about the land, so when I picture a missionary,

02:44I am picturing, I'll use the first church that we went to, that we attended after we

02:50left the cult. I'll use that as the example. They would send people on missions, and they

02:56sent the youth. They would send adults with the youth, and it was a very healthy thing,

03:00I thought. And they would go into places where there was a strong need. And maybe it's a need

03:06of providing food, teaching people how to plant and grow food. I mean, there's a wide variety

03:12of needs, right? I have friends who are carpenters who went on missions, and they were helping to

03:17build houses and land that was just ravaged by the storms. Well, that's a good mission,

03:22right? And you're going into somebody else's land, you're going, you know, with not much of

03:30an agenda other than to help the people. And you help the people on their land. But then I started

03:36to realize that youth with a mission doesn't really do quite that they take the land and they

03:42buy the land and they own the land. And how does that work? What does that look like to the

03:46people

03:47of the, I mean, I hate to use the word invasion, but the people in the lands that they're invading,

03:52what does that look like to those people?

03:54I think maybe I'll even start from my own experience. And I've shared this before on

04:00here. But if folks haven't heard that episode, or maybe this will give more context. I, at the age

04:09of 14, knew that I wanted to go live and work in northern Uganda. And to make a very long

04:17story

04:17short, I ended up there when I was 19 years old. And I went for what was supposed to be

04:23a short

04:24term trip to western Uganda, where YWAM had an established base. And I was quite surprised

04:32even then to see this sprawling property with a garden, with many houses, with multiple dormitories

04:41on it. It was, it was a big piece of land in western Uganda. They also have other ones in

04:48eastern

04:48Uganda. But there was no YWAM presence at the time in northern Uganda. And I didn't ever go

04:56thinking I would establish a base. That was never my intention. I just knew I wanted to try to figure

05:02out how movement and dance could be used therapeutically with folks who had been through

05:08war. And so I went to northern Uganda for what was supposed to be a few days. I ended up

05:14staying

05:15months, months turned into years. And I would go back and forth between northern Uganda and back to

05:22Colorado Springs. And within a very short amount of time, as a 19, 20, 21 year old, I started literally

05:32being put in conference rooms with oil tycoons from, from Texas, who had, were so excited that Uganda had

05:43just discovered oil, and that I could potentially be the bridge between what they were doing for God in

05:51Texas and what I was doing for God in Uganda. And even at the time, I had fully drank the,

05:57the Kool-Aid,

05:59but even then, I was like, I, this doesn't seem right. And I have my own concerns about what the

06:07implications of this

06:09are. And it, it was such a rapid pace where it was such a whirlwind. Um, and come to find

06:16out that this is

06:17how YWAM operates in many places around the globe. That it, it has maybe one or a few people there.

06:24And then

06:25within a few years, there is a base or multiple bases. And they tend to buy up property and land.

06:33Uh, and, and it really

06:34is this giant mycelial network. I'm sure there's thousands and thousands of properties across the

06:42globe. It's incredible. And from a businessman standpoint, if you understand how business works

06:49and understand the collaborative relationships, in fact, maybe I should pause and break that down

06:55for people who aren't in business. So in Louisville, Kentucky, which is just right across the river,

07:01as I was starting my business up, there were these little groups that you could attend,

07:07and they would often be advertised on either Facebook or on the internet or newspapers,

07:12et cetera. And small businesses could collaborate with small businesses for a common goal.

07:17So you might come, when I started my business, it was really small and I was doing like website work.

07:23So I would go, I could do a website, which is a, not a lot of money. And I'm talking

07:28to other

07:29businesses who probably already have websites and they're trying to find ways to make me useful

07:35while offering me something in return. So they might talk to me and say, well, do you have,

07:42we have a business that does printing. Do you have any printing needs? And yes, of course,

07:48I needed business cards, which is to them. It's really tiny to me. It's really tiny. And they say,

07:52well, interestingly, we want this new page on our website, which is a small job. So we're talking

07:57peanuts here. I mean, these are really, really small jobs. And on a very, very tiny scale,

08:03that's a collaborative effort. Two people can, two businesses connect and they have a common need.

08:09Now grow this. I reached a point in my business where I'm dealing with hundreds of hospitals across

08:15the nation. I would never sit down in a business meeting like this and say, I'll do a website page

08:21for business cards. You talk to larger groups of people and the bigger you grow, the bigger this

08:27gets. That's not insidious. That's how business works. That's not how Christianity works. I don't

08:34go to a Christian church and try to get all of the business. Interestingly, I went to some,

08:41I'm not going to mention the name of the church, but I went to one of the larger churches and

08:45they

08:45had established something like this for small businesses. And so if you're a small business,

08:51you could work with other church people and you had this base of church customers that just

08:56magically appeared. And those people kind of thrived in that area, but they're locked in.

09:02They can never grow bigger because that's their customer base.

09:05Now think full gospel businessmen. Think about the Kardashian family, which is the patriarchs

09:13behind this movement. And I understand that there's a little bit of separation there, but

09:18think of the large scale business that we're talking about here. Full gospel businessmen goes

09:23global and they're connecting businessmen who can get potential customers in a religious world,

09:30going to religious conventions. They set up all of these events. Now bring in the new apostolic

09:36reformation. Now you've got all these conventions, your business, which targets the Christian customers

09:41can go to the convention. Now you have this established customer base and everybody's working together.

09:47Even that is smaller than what you're talking about. Grow that to the next, next, next, next level.

09:54Now we're talking about we're going to take land in another country. We're going to connect you to

09:59oil tycoons who can work the land and they will fund our business. They will help with the missions,

10:06but we're still going to make the parents pay $10,000 to send their kids. So we're getting revenue from

10:12the parents. We're getting revenue from the oil tycoons. There's only one winner here.

10:18Yeah, it makes me think of a professor that I really respect named Frozmanji. He has researched

10:27quote unquote development work for many, many, many years. And he says,

10:32you cannot fight poverty. What you can fight is those who make people poor. And a lot of the

10:40the land-based consumption is so correlated to capitalism and to establishing capital,

10:50which will always benefit those who have the most power and the most capital. And even as ideal as the

10:59idea of trickle-down may seem, being on the ground with those who are furthest from the capital,

11:09it only exacerbates the exploitation of communities, of resources. It pulls money out of the community

11:19long-term rather than really establishing and allowing folks to pull themselves up by their bootstraps,

11:27to borrow a problematic phrase. But I hope you get what I'm trying to get at here.

11:34So I did this business thing where I'm attending and I'm getting small peanut jobs.

11:38The interesting wake-up call for me was I bought into the idea and the hype

11:45that you could have a Christian business, work with another Christian business, and this helps

11:50society. This isn't really how it works, man. I encountered businesses who they were proclaiming

11:59that they're a Christian business who would rob you blind in business. It wasn't a Christian tactic

12:04they were using. I'll just say it like that. And I wrote off tens of thousands of dollars. So I'll

12:10just

12:10let that go and leave it at that. You don't always encounter people who are Christians running

12:15Christian businesses, but they're there because they know they can have an instant customer base

12:20by using the name Christian in it. But to your point, in the industry, say you have 10 businesses

12:28that are providing a service and you have one that is capitalizing off of this, you know, whatever you

12:35want to call this mess. I don't even know if I want to call it Christian, but this thing where

12:40you can

12:40have Christian people to service your business. Well, think about all of the other businesses that

12:44that hurts and impacts. And I'm talking about supply chain, the vendors, you've got this whole network

12:51of businesses that can be impacted and shifted the wrong direction if you do this. Well, now take this to

12:58a global scale. You're putting businesses out there who are connecting with people in areas that they don't

13:05even have expertise. And all of the local businesses that could be thriving, the missionary work can

13:11actually suck the life out of the places that you're invading. And then it really turns into an

13:19actual invasion. Because you're going on a Christian mission, you're sending the children, and you're just

13:23destroying the economy in that area, right? So there is a lot of things that you really have to think

13:31through as you look at this mess. And I'm thinking of, you know, I was, and I'm sure still am

13:40in many

13:40ways, I'm not even aware of yet, so complicit in this. And I'm thinking about even when our ministry

13:49started building on land, inevitably, in northern Uganda, it was, you know, it was a land of a family.

13:58We didn't actually purchase the land, yet we sort of infiltrated it is a great word and started to

14:04build. And yet one time we took a team and we were laying bricks for the building that we were

14:13building

14:14and doing a terrible job. Meanwhile, local masonry workers who should have been getting paid and would

14:23have done a much better job are not able to do the work because, quote unquote, volunteers are there

14:30and have spent thousands of dollars to be there, rather than use that to boost a local economy and

14:37actually value the labor of the laborers that are there. I think there's so much grandiosity in,

14:47we're just going to go and build this home or these buildings. And sadly, I know many stories

14:54of communities where they would literally have teams come and build something because they might

15:01get some gifts or some exchange, but they became so dependent on this that they would literally destroy

15:08the building so that a new team could come maybe the next year or a few years later. And it

15:15becomes this

15:16really impossible cycle for those communities because everything has been leached out that their literal

15:23main industry is volunteerism or short-term ministry and missions work. And so, they have to try to find

15:31ways of gleaning the small pieces that they can from these teams that come. There's a really excellent

15:39book by Pippa Grundy called Ours to Explore that goes into some of these narratives and these stories of

15:46communities that have been devastated by short-term missions going and exploiting not only the land, but the labor.

15:56And so, of course, we're focusing on land. But as we're seeing, all of these seven mountains are so

16:02also, I think, intertwined. And the Venn diagram of each of them is so overlapping.

16:08I was trying hard not to laugh while you were saying volunteerism. That's a new word I'm going

16:14to have to use, right? And that's really what it becomes. It's more, we've talked about this before,

16:19but it's more about the mission for the missionaries than it is for the people that they go help.

16:23And it reminds me, I'm certain that I used this example with you before, but I'll use it again.

16:29As I'm studying early Pentecostalism, and you come across people like Frank Sanford who had the same,

16:36I guess it would be the foundation that all of this notion is built on,

16:40the spiritual warfare and these territorial demons. He took his entire cult following onto two boats

16:47whenever he was at risk of several lawsuits. And they sailed the world,

16:51trying to convert the world. And the way that they did it was they would sail up to

16:56the banks of a continent and then preach at that continent and sail off to somewhere else.

17:02Well, most of the people in the land didn't even hear the sermon if they were preaching at it,

17:06right? They were on the boats. And if you read through that story, you're just scratching your

17:09head thinking, well, what on earth was that for? And for the central figure, it was to escape all of

17:15the

17:15criminal allegations that he was facing or civil allegations to the people. They're on a divine

17:22mission. And that's a mission from the missionary leader who's by God. Well, now expand that thought

17:29into youth with a mission. They're taking over a territory. What better way to preach at territorial

17:35demons than to claim the territory for your own? Bring the kids in. Well, now the territory itself

17:41becomes hallowed ground. This is the territory where the Christians are, the enemies on the other

17:46side of the gates. So everything, instead of missionary to convert the people, this turns into

17:52literally a missionary to stand and preach at the people on the other side of the territory and the

17:59territory boundaries. So for me, it's very, very similar. But it's still, you just scratch your head

18:06thinking, what on earth were they thinking? For sure. And most of the bases, if not all of them,

18:13I would say at least most, their revenue and their power comes from the discipleship training schools

18:21or secondary schools that they run. And so even in Uganda, it's folks from various countries who are

18:31there for five months, three months, nine months, doing this missionary school, paying thousands of

18:37dollars. And sure, there's some community outreach, but it's, it really is actually really embedded in

18:46the community. And this happens both globally and locally. You know, it was actually an odd thing for me.

18:53The, the base that I joined staff on before it was a YWAM base, it was a hotel in Colorado

19:01Springs.

19:01And my brothers used to have their end of the year soccer tournaments in the banquet hall of this hotel.

19:09So I had literally experienced this building as a hotel. And then over the years, I don't know what

19:17happened with the hotel, but then YWAM bought it. And what's wild is that, you know, YWAM owns or

19:25someone owns, I don't know exactly the, the, the back story of on paper, who actually owns this building.

19:32I believe it's in the name of YWAM. And yet everyone who lives in those old hotel rooms turned into

19:39apartments basically pays rent. They pay for any renovations that they want to do. They pay for

19:47any type of like remodeling. And then when they leave, they have established no equity or no assets

19:54because they don't actually own that. And so over the years, these bases become more and more

20:01profitable to the organization. When I was in Montana, we were on an old military base and my work duty

20:11for

20:11two hours every day was stripping copper wire so that the base could sell it and make money.

20:18And then I came back to show my husband, the base years later and the building that I had stripped

20:24copper wire and was now this like giant water tower that the base had built on their own. And I

20:29was

20:30like, wow, I guess all of my hours of hard labor really seemed to pay off for that.

20:34Darrell Bock It's incredible. I mean, it is one of the best,

20:39greatest business strategies that I think is slipping under the radar. People just don't

20:43realize that this exists. And for good reason. I mean, we're talking about your base was on the

20:50United States. What would possibly be the mission? I mean, were they helping the people of the city?

20:57Were they teaching them about Jesus? What was the mission when you were there?

20:59Darrell Bock It was training disciples. So, the mission

21:03is we're going to have this base and then we're going to run these schools and maybe

21:08once a week, once a month, we might do some type of community outreach. But in my experience,

21:16there was not a lot of emphasis or if people were involved in the community, it was of their own

21:22accord. When I lived in South Africa for nine months, me and people from my school,

21:29we decided to start a Bible study in one of the townships that we would go to on our own.

21:34But none of these were things that were actually established or long-term community connections,

21:41other than a few select people that YWAM may send their teams to go work with as part of their

21:50outreach. But the mission itself for each base is primarily to train disciples,

21:57to know God and then make him known. So, they're kind of these intentional incubators. But then what

22:04happens is that they just keep incubating and no one ever really then is able to leave. And a lot

22:12of

22:12times that you don't have skills that you know how to translate to the market. And again, in South Africa,

22:22our base was also an old hotel. And they were bringing in lots of money, lots of US and European

22:33currency, which would have translated to even more money in South Africa. And me, I lived in one room

22:40with three roommates, very small room, and a bathroom that had mold on it for months and months and months.

22:46And so, we kept saying, we need you to do something about this mold. We need you to do something

22:50about

22:50this mold. Literally, in the winter, we came in and they had just put a two-foot by two-foot

22:56hole

22:56in our wall straight to the outside. And we're like, we fixed your mold problem.

23:01And we were freezing. And we spent months, because apparently the base didn't have money for some

23:08reason, eating lettuce and mayonnaise and peanut butter sandwiches. And so, I've always had this

23:15question of, where is all of this money going? Where is all of this capital going? Because it's clearly

23:21going somewhere, and it isn't going to the people that are living on these bases and actually

23:28contributing to the assets that these bases become. Well, and that's just it. It's gaining assets.

23:35So, whenever the parents are paying for all this money, they're thinking that they're paying for

23:39the money that goes to the child, so that the child can further the mission. But then the child,

23:45you know, it doesn't cost this much money to put a child up. And if you do it the biblical

23:49way,

23:50you go with only the shoes on your feet and the clothes on your back, right? But when you're doing

23:54this and you're gaining assets, you can make it sound appealing to the parents as though we're a small

24:01operation, we don't have any money. And that you can show them the bank account, you may not have

24:05much money. But it's the assets that I think it just slips under the radar people don't realize.

24:11So every dollar that goes in, you're gaining assets. In Africa, I have known people who can invest

24:17large sums of money in grain, watch it travel from one country into another country, sell that grain,

24:23make a heck of a lot of money off of the sale. Well, you can't trace any of that money.

24:28It's just

24:28it's money that's invested. And much like an investment in the United States, you put the

24:33money in and you hope that it gains you something. And as these assets continue to grow, we'll think,

24:38you know, 10 years, 1520 50 years from now 100 years, how many of these assets do we accumulate?

24:45And if you've got a seven mountains mandate of taking over the world, well, if you gain the assets

24:49in the other countries, you're actually legitimately taking over the world. Now put yourself in the

24:55minds of the politicians in the countries you're invading. And look at the outcry by some of these

25:01countries who are solidly against the United States, you have to wonder what's going through their

25:07minds as they see themselves silently be invaded by something that it's using the name Christian,

25:14but their operations aren't really the Christian type operations. Yeah, I think that is such an

25:19important aspect. And I think that there's another aspect, which is something I trace with Uganda,

25:24is that it's it's the opposite in some ways that Museveni has had a very entangled relationship with the

25:32U.S. Christian right for decades and has maintained power in part because he has followed the purity culture

25:44and the rhetoric of the Christian religious right. And so that was even something that was brought up

25:53in these meetings with these oil tycoons was, well, Uganda is a very favorable nation because God has

26:01placed Museveni in power. Never mind that Museveni has changed the constitution multiple times to get

26:07quote unquote reelected, whether or not those elections are fair or not. But the idea is that because this

26:16man follows these particular ideologies around the religious right, then God is using Uganda. And the

26:27base that I was a part of focused on the 1040 window, if folks aren't familiar with that, it's the

26:34most

26:34unreached people groups in the world. And it's primarily North Africa, the Middle East. It was an idea that was

26:43made up by a missionary many years ago in 1991, I believe. And Uganda technically wasn't in that

26:51window. But I made the case at the time that Northern Sudan was kind of the line of that window,

27:01and it was primarily a Muslim area. And so we needed to develop strongholds of Christianity in Uganda,

27:09so that the Muslim people couldn't come down and bring their ideology, we had to establish ours

27:17first. And it really was this like, this is a battleground. And anytime we learned that there was

27:24Islamic hospital that went up, we're like, Oh, there they go again. And yet we were there doing the same

27:30thing with our own ideology and really implementing that in ways that have proved really harmful for

27:38certain communities in Uganda. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started,

27:44or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic,

27:50and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation? You can learn this and more on William

27:57Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org. On the books page of the website,

28:03you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,

28:09John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

28:16You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements.

28:22If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at

28:28the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that

28:34you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for

28:39your support. I was listening as you were talking, and I was thinking about the other aspect of this,

28:45which may be for another podcast, but I'll mention it. Whenever you start taking over assets in

28:51a country, it puts you in a position where you can actually impact the politics. And there are examples,

28:59I've got them on the website, you can go to my website and type in Robert Gambura. Robert Gambura

29:04was a Branhamite, he was establishing a Branham sect, and he was revered as the spiritual leader. Well,

29:12as the sect began to grow, and obviously, he's got land in his compound. As the sect began to grow,

29:19they started working with, you know, maybe there would be a elite member of the message cult that

29:27was in the banking system, or they might rise up into the political system, whatever it was. Well, in

29:33Zimbabwe, they basically grew to such a level of control that you if you went to the bank, and you

29:41wanted a loan, you almost had to be the Branhamites were favored over the people who were not Branhamites,

29:47you almost had to have that position in that pool. So they were, at least in the region he was

29:52in,

29:53they were controlling the banking system. If you control the banks, you also control the government.

29:58He got into the government, he was helping to organize a military coup to overthrow the government,

30:05all that research is on the website. And while all of this is going on, and he's proclaiming

30:12Jesus, or using the word Jesus, he is producing illicit material, I'll try to keep this G rated for

30:21for YouTube. But he's producing illicit material, because he had convinced all of the females in his

30:28sect, that he was their spiritual husband. And as spiritual husband, he could take, he could partake

30:35in the physical aspects of husbandry. Keeping this G rated as I go, right? Well, he went to prison,

30:41and there's there's a whole story you can read about that. But what I'm trying to point out here is,

30:46once you start to build up assets, and you get people in high places, now you have connections. And

30:53if I go back to my little tiny example of small businesses working to help each other, well,

30:58what's to say the, the ones who are being connected to the political wings, or the political arms,

31:05are not doing the same things. You experienced it with the oil tycoons, well, there was also a

31:10political arm that's doing the same thing, while you're entertaining the business tycoons. So as this

31:16thing grows, it's like this spiderweb that is literally invading a country. And you take a step

31:22back and you look at it, and from a religious standpoint, it doesn't make any sense. You just

31:27scratch your head. Now enter the family into this. And the connection between the interface between

31:35Washington and religion is the family, which we've talked about. William Branham's campaign

31:42manager was a director in the family. So there are there's some historical connections. But if you look

31:49at what's happening today in the New Apostolic Reformation, all of the framework that was laid

31:55by Branham and others, the, the man's name was the Baron William T. Frere von Blumberg was the

32:03director, Branham's campaign manager. What he helped to establish in the United States and abroad

32:09were several organizations similar to the family in other countries. But they did it under the skies of the

32:17faith healing revivals. So that network was established, then it kind of dissolved, you

32:23don't hear much of latter rain or the post World War Two healing revival. But all of those apostolic

32:28networks are what became the New Apostolic Reformation. So as it's building layers and layers and layers of

32:36complex strategies to invade governments. Now we have youth with a mission that's doing the same thing,

32:44but it's built on top of those networks. So you see all of these layers, and it's like peeling an

32:48onion, where do you stop, you peel off YWAM, where you're going to find under YWAM was this other

32:53organization. Under that was another and another and another. And I'll bet as back as far back as you

32:59want to go through time, you can find this is happening to some extent. But I can't think of a

33:03time when they actually owned as many assets as we're talking about.

33:07I can't either. I think it's been intentionally, like the family, it's been this under current,

33:16underground, quiet movement. And of course, there are louder, more prominent figures. But

33:26I thought even when I was in it, that YWAM was more niche and more small than I'm realizing even

33:36the

33:36more that I look into it, the more that I learn. And, you know, there's this story that Lauren Cunningham

33:46and Bill Bright would share that they both were in Colorado, and they both had a vision of the

33:54Seven Mountains idea. It wasn't mountains at the time, but the Seven Spheres of Society. And they came

34:01together and they had both written down the Seven Spheres and were like, oh my gosh, God showed me this,

34:06God showed me this, even though that the Seven Spheres were already in the zeitgeist of that type of

34:13Christian world. But they had that meeting in 1975. And so this has been a really long,

34:22really underground movement that I don't think we can underestimate all of the tendrils it has,

34:30you know. And I don't think we have time, obviously, today to go into all of this. But

34:34there's also curriculum that was being implemented in schools. Like, you can't,

34:40all of the different mountains or spheres or whatever you want to call it have been impacted.

34:47We've visited 44 states now, as we've been in our van traveling around. And almost every

34:55place we go, you can find a YWAM base within, you know, especially for bigger cities. It is not

35:02hard to find. They're everywhere. And that's any country. Like, I can't think of a country that I

35:11know that there's probably not. And they probably don't own property and aren't establishing themselves.

35:17Darrell Bock And again, for me,

35:18it's not a problem for a church to be in a country. But usually the churches are going into the

35:23country

35:24so that that country can thrive. They'll go into a city so the city can thrive. But more specifically,

35:31it's usually an operation to a neighborhood because we're talking about small missionary

35:36operations where I'm going to teach people how to plant, grow, hospital work, etc. You're going to

35:43train people so that they can train other people. And what is spreading is the ability for self-survival.

35:49That's usually how the missionaries work in developing nations. Some of the nations that I've

35:55looked at with youth with a mission, they're not even developing nations. And you're talking about

35:59Colorado. That's kind of funny too. But whenever you think of it like that, the only purpose that I can

36:06see is to gain assets. I can't see anything outside of gaining assets.

36:09Darrell Bock Yeah. And a lot of, you know, the main

36:13primary bases for a very long time were in Switzerland and Kona and still are. And these

36:21really expensive, really luxurious locations. And it's like, oh, interesting. God called you there.

36:30Um, wow. That's convenient for you. And so many of the properties and

36:38bases are on really idyllic places, really prime property.

36:44Darrell Bock Well, and to somebody who

36:46thinks like a business, I mean, my mind's racing because I know how all of this works.

36:51There are phases in business. You may have one operations just to get the assets. And once you

36:57collect enough assets, what's a better way to put it? I can bring it down to everybody's level with

37:03Monopoly. When you play Monopoly, you go around the board and you've just got a board.

37:07Well, once you get enough money saved up, which is your asset, money is your asset in this case.

37:12Now I want to put a house on there. Well, once you get enough houses, you get a hotel. Those

37:17are

37:17phases of business. And Monopoly is just a game of business. Once you get all of the assets, and if

37:22you've got prime real estate, well, you can either A, sell that prime real estate when you need a sum

37:28of

37:28money to do something else. Or B, what if I want to do Christian tourism? I've got the perfect property

37:34for Christian tourism. Bring your wife, bring your family, and come here to our Christian resort.

37:39I mean, I hate to say it, but that's really what I'm thinking. And to be honest, there's a part

37:45of

37:45me just being a businessman. If I was him, that's exactly what I would be doing. I would want the

37:51hotels on top of the properties in Monopoly, because why not? So as you understand how this

37:56grows, that's it. But I don't have the mind that is as evil and villainous as some of the

38:04more insidious characters that I've investigated. Those that think beyond the Monopoly game,

38:11who are thinking, how can I manipulate every other player who's playing this game? Or how can I cheat

38:18the system and get a hotel before I get all of my houses? There are people that think like this.

38:23Take it to the political world. How can I change this government's policy so that it gets me more

38:30benefit for my assets and the value of my assets grow faster? That's how insidious these people can

38:37think. And I'm just like, I'm just grasping at straws because I don't think like this. There are

38:42people listening. In fact, if you're a commenter and you've got one of these minds, maybe comment in

38:46the feed, you're going to see all kinds of things that people can do all kinds of things once you

38:51get

38:51these types of assets. And in the end, what's the purpose? You gain the asset. If the objective is to

38:59teach the children how to be better Christians and how to convert other people to Christianity

39:04so that we can go to heaven, well, what purpose is the asset? Are you staying here? Are you going

39:10to

39:10have a land bridge that goes between heaven and this property? None of it makes any sense.

39:16You know, you have the base and then what you typically have is all these little splinters off of

39:24the base. So even as I talked about Colorado Springs, I also worked for a ministry that splintered

39:30off and it literally called itself business as missions, which is how I got connected with these

39:37oil people. But then they also went on to buy another property in Colorado. That's a very large

39:43property to start an aquaponics farm where they sell lettuce to local businesses in Colorado Springs.

39:52And it really is like these businesses. And it's always under the explanation of,

39:57we're learning how to do this so that we can go train orphanages how to do this or various things.

40:04And again, I don't want to feel like I'm totally disparaging of what it means to go help other

40:10people. But I really do believe in this phrase that I shared of, you can't fight poverty. Like,

40:16if you're only ever going to put out these fires, when are, when are we going to pause and look

40:21at

40:22the systems that are in place of why these countries have been underdeveloped in the first place

40:27and why these countries are impoverished? It's, it's because of hundreds and thousands of years of

40:35history that I think we really need to take into account. Otherwise, we do get this sense of grandiosity

40:42that says, well, I can go help them. I can go fix it. That doesn't take into question,

40:47why do I have thousands of dollars that I can go spend on a plane ticket? And this person is

40:53struggling to come up with means for school fees or food or why have to pay school fees when we

40:59don't

40:59have to here? You know, all of these questions that I think are so important and, and not taken into

41:06consideration when it is just this charging forward and the sense of urgency of the Great Commission

41:13and getting everybody saved. Well, and those aren't even the questions that I'm thinking about.

41:19Whenever you do this kind of an operation, there are what the best way to call it in business,

41:25we call it risk assessment. Before you went in to gain assets, you had to assess the risk. What are

41:31my

41:32risks? What are the risks to those involved? And I don't really think that that's been thought through

41:37in this case, because if you come in, you take over assets, each place that you go into has different

41:44sets of laws. Some of those laws may not even make sense to people in the United States, you would

41:49never

41:49even think of these laws. But say, for instance, you take over the land, and they've got laws around

41:55zoning. So you take over this land, you're this big international operation. Well, what about the locals

42:01that are in that same zone? How do you impact them? Do they have to move to they have to

42:06go to another

42:06zone? Politics, there are agendas in some countries if the one with the most money wins. So if you come

42:14in and you've got this massive asset, well, we're going to tailor all of our laws to fit these people

42:19and make them feel like kings while they're here, which that I'm certain that part is happening.

42:26Well, what about the ones that the potential converts to Christianity, who are watching this

42:32happen, who are now being oppressed because of the political sway? Suddenly, they're angry, there's

42:39you can heck no, you're not going to convert me to this enemy who has invaded our land. We were

42:44peaceful

42:45until they came into our land, right? There's all of these things that you have to consider. And in the

42:50end, it becomes more of a, it's like a partnership between the business side of the religion in the

42:59United States, the asset side, and whoever is helping to supply the needs for that asset. Sometimes

43:06it's local, sometimes it's from the United States. But it turns into a business operation that has to

43:13have a revenue stream, has definite expenses, is gaining assets. And in the end, are they missionaries

43:21who are coming as guests who bless? Or are they basically settlers coming to manage?

43:27Yeah. And I think about in terms of if you could Thanos and snap your fingers and all the YWAM

43:36maces disappeared, how many of those communities then would collapse? Because there has been this

43:45created dependency on short-term teams that are going to come and leave gifts, leave food, maybe

43:53have a special bond with a few kids that they support school fees for, you know, like there's so much

43:59of

43:59this, I think, conditioned dependency. And so, even if you were to look at it and go, well, it looks

44:08like

44:08they might be doing something for the community, is that actually helping the community become

44:13self-actualizing? Or is that community just then dependent? And it becomes, I think, this version of a

44:23prosperity gospel where it's, well, they have the access, they have the resources, so God must be

44:29on their side. Or, you know, God must be on our side without questioning the human interactions and

44:38detriments and everything else that's going into that.

44:41Darrell Bock To that point, the property itself and the

44:45prosperity that's involved with it, it centralizes the power to those who own the property. So, for

44:52everyone on the outside looking in, they see, to them, it's no different than if some other

44:57foreign nation said, okay, we're, I don't know, Vietnam, we're going to put a Vietnamese base here,

45:04we're going to train Vietnamese people, and we're going to operate independently of you who are not

45:09Vietnamese. I mean, I hate to say it, but that's exactly what it is, whether you use the word Christian

45:13or

45:14not. To the locals, that's what it feels like. And picture this, in Vietnam, you've got this

45:23this communistic hierarchy, and they're all going to the central figure. And the central figure is

45:29the one with all of the power. Well, to the people who are in the land who are watching this

45:34happen,

45:34they're thinking, Oh, my gosh, now we've got this supreme power who's coming in. And in this land,

45:40this is the land of that supreme power. On the NAR side, you've got the apostolic authority,

45:46the apostles, they're wanting to create the dominionist ideology, they're wanting to create

45:52theocracies. They see it as the same thing. It's basically communism rebranded as Christianity.

45:57To the locals, that's how it would feel, communism rebranded. And they see it as this invading force.

46:03And so while from the missionary side, from the parent side, they see we're sending our kids and

46:11they're doing a good thing for a community. Well, that community is not as receptive because of the

46:16structure that is being set up. Whereas the churches that I mentioned earlier, the people go in,

46:22the land is not theirs. They're helping people to better the land that they're on that is not their

46:28own land. They're helping the people to establish networks of helping each other learn and grow and

46:34support the land. And they're basically building communities that can the ideology of or the strategies

46:41of building that community can spread to other communities where the entire nation becomes a

46:46better place.

46:47As you're talking, I can't get one of the YWAM bases in Eastern Uganda out of my mind where it's,

46:56I would guess, 60 plus acres. And it has high ropes course. It has its own farm. It has these

47:07giant

47:08buildings and it does. It hosts people for retreats and it is its own ecosystem. And

47:18everyone who is there has paid to be there and is free labor. And so you have at least two

47:26hours of

47:26a work duty where you're going to be digging, cooking, cleaning. Nobody really hires locally because

47:35you're going to have an IT person on staff. You're going to have a maintenance person on staff.

47:41Like everywhere you go, it's, it's these little insular bubbles. And it's like, well, again,

47:49why be there if you're not actually there? You're, you're just this, this own little sphere in the

47:56midst of these communities. And often those are also, you know, European or American leaders of

48:07those bases. Very, very rarely is it actually folks who are from that community, much less even that

48:14country or continent that are leaders of those bases.

48:18Yeah. The whole thing to me, like I said, it just simply does not make any sense. And the fact

48:24that you are discovering this kind of blindsided after having been in it, it really shows that there

48:30wasn't a good transparency. People aren't, people in leadership aren't transparent about what's

48:35happening, but there's so many aspects that are wrong. Usually this type of operation would have

48:42a very transparent mission, transparent governance. You would have local partnerships

48:47that totally replace everything that you just described. You would try to find locals to do each

48:53one of those tasks. And if you couldn't, you would bring in somebody to train the local so that you

48:58still, in the end, you had a local partnership. And so when the locals see a partnership, now we want

49:05to,

49:05we want to be part of your community. Oh, you're Christian. We want to be Christian too. I mean,

49:09that's how it works, right? That's how missionaries work. And I think the key that you mentioned is the,

49:16I can't remember how you word it, but basically it's the idea that this is a limited time commitment

49:23for us to help you establish yourself as a community that is thriving. And we hope you're

49:31a Christian community when we leave. That's usually how missionaries work. Instead of this, we're going to

49:36come in and this land is our land and it's not your land. I mean, that song is going through

49:42my head.

49:42It's kind of funny, but it's just, it takes me back to the mind of a bad kid. It's not

49:49the good kid

49:50who wants to help the other kids. This is the bully in the room. And I hate to say it,

49:54but I look at YWAM

49:56and all I can see is the bully in the room. I'm thinking that the only locals we probably really

50:02helped or supported were bodas are these motorcycle taxi drivers. And the YWAM base is about 30 minutes

50:11from town. And so they got a lot of money because there was constantly YWAMers riding back and forth.

50:18And even in town, I would hail a boda and they would go YWAM. And they just knew like,

50:24you're a white person. You're not from here. That's probably where you're going to go.

50:28And other than that, I really can't think of locals where the assets or the money or finances or labor

50:37were getting distributed to. It's so sad. And there's so many more things that we could cover.

50:43I mean, like I said earlier, this is just one small aspect of the problems that

50:48not many people think through as they're thinking through Seven Mountains mandate, but

50:53so much more we could get into. Thank you so much for doing this.

50:56Thank you. Really nice to have this conversation.

51:00Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.

51:03You can find us at william-branum.org and endwellmovement.com. For more about the dark

51:09side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity

51:14to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

52:06You can find us at the NAR. Available on Amazon, you can find the same effects on your

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