New Covenant vs. Covenant Control: The Rise of Kingdom Movements

2 days ago

John explains why confusion over biblical covenants lies at the heart of the Pentecostal/Charismatic Movement and the New Apostolic Reformation. By tracing how the Old Covenant, the New Covenant of grace, and later British Israelite and healing-revival ideas were merged into something entirely different, John shows how authority shifted from the gospel to modern prophets and apostles.

This episode walks through the biblical meaning of covenants, why the Mosaic Law was replaced, and how William Branham and later movements quietly introduced a "new new covenant" that reshaped doctrine, obedience, and spiritual authority—effects still visible in charismatic and NAR churches today.

00:00 Introduction
03:26 Why Branhamism Was Not A New Covenant Faith
05:10 Breaking The Language Barrier
09:10 How Branham Altered The Gospel
10:37 What The New Covenant Means
12:06 Jesus, The Law, And Historical Context
13:23 What A Covenant Is
15:47 Why Hebrews And Galatians Matter
28:36 Research Resources And Closing Transition
29:33 The New Covenant Of Grace
34:27 Hebrews And The Covenant Shift
36:53 Historical Meaning Of Old Covenant Prophets
56:27 Why The New Testament Leaves No Room For A New Prophet
57:52 Closing Remarks
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Transcript

00:32Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:41at william-branham.org, where history proves that truth, or at least their version of it,

00:47is truly stranger than fiction. I've been wanting to do this for quite a long time. I've actually

00:53mentioned it in a few podcasts, and I'm certain that some of you have caught it, but I've wanted

00:58to talk through the covenants. And this is a big deal because as I'm watching the comments and

01:04I'm reading through what people are sending me as far as questions, and even just watching some of

01:10the back and forth between people who are in the comment feeds, I come to realize that with regards

01:17to the covenants, it is though people are speaking a different language. For example, I had one person

01:24who strongly attacked one of my guests, which that's another story for another day, but the

01:31guest made some comment about being in the new covenant and how we're no longer bound under the

01:36law. And this person who clearly did not understand the covenants and especially the new covenant

01:43started saying that and mentioning all of the different passages saying that, yes, we're still

01:50bound by the law. The law is still in effect. We are under the Mosaic law. He didn't use those

01:55words

01:55or she didn't use those words. I don't know if it was male or female, but essentially the sum of

02:01what

02:01they're saying is you don't have this new covenant thing that you believe you have. You're still kind of

02:08under the old covenant and you're also under the new covenant. And to a person who's in mainstream

02:14Christianity who has gone through, I don't know, the different study groups or even just listening

02:21to casual sermons, somebody reading that would just think, well, what on earth does this person

02:28not understand their Bible? And it isn't that they don't understand the Bible. Well, I guess partially

02:34it is, but it isn't so much that really as that the fact that their understanding is based on a

02:43different premise than what is in mainstream Christian. In fact, just Christianity in general,

02:49whenever you talk about the gospel, the gospel is the good news. Jesus has come and there's a new

02:56covenant. If you read the gospels, this is very clear, but to somebody who has been manipulated

03:02and has a different frame of reference, they can't really read the same things in the Bible.

03:09And I say this from experience because in the Branham cults, which this is going to play a

03:15large factor into this podcast, in the Branham cults, there wasn't really a strong concept of

03:21new covenant. We weren't a new covenant based church. We were an old covenant slash, I don't even

03:28know what you would call it, but it was partial old covenant, mostly new prophet religion. That's

03:36really what the religion was. It wasn't based on the gospel. In fact, most of the people that I

03:42encountered while I was in the cult, and almost all who I've had conversations with who try to,

03:49you know, give me pushback through either email or comment feeds, almost all of them don't understand

03:55what is the new covenant. In fact, some of them don't understand the covenants in general.

04:01So anyway, I wanted to have this conversation. I wanted to give some frame of reference because

04:06my history in the Branham cult actually impacts what you see in the new apostolic reformation today,

04:14which I'll get into that a bit. But the reason that I have held back so far is, and waited,

04:20you know, this long to do this, it initially, I thought it was a theological discussion.

04:27We're talking about the new covenant. This is the new covenant of grace. This is essentially,

04:32this is a key component of the gospel, if you understand it. And so that's, that's a theological

04:38issue. And I try to avoid theological issues because you have so many different people with

04:44so many different theologies that it just turns into a debate that never ends. I usually try to stay

04:50with the history, which is black and white. But thinking on something that my grandfather told me

04:56about William Branham made me realize that this is actually a historical issue as much as it is a

05:04theological issue. So for this podcast, I'm going to try to do a few things. Number one, I want to

05:11break down the language barrier. We have people who believe that you're under the old covenant and

05:17don't really understand the difference between the covenants. Some of them don't understand what a

05:22covenant is at all. You have people who are on the outside looking in thinking, well, these people

05:27just simply don't read their Bibles. And I want to break down the communication barriers because

05:32in each category of people in conversation about this, they can't really understand each other

05:39because they are speaking a different language. And simply put, the new apostolic reformation today

05:46reveres William Branham as one of God's generals, quote unquote, God's generals, I should say.

05:54They believe that he was a man who was sent by God, had angels on the platform with him,

06:01was the messenger for a covenant, which that's a separate category of covenant. I'll get into that

06:08later. Basically, the messenger for the last age. And then he went astray. So he was a good general,

06:14then he got messed up and turned into a bad general. That's the common misconception.

06:21However, if you look at the dates of when William Branham was most popular, he was by almost all

06:28accounts, the leader of the post-World War II healing revival. So everybody who's joined into

06:33that revival, all of the ministries that came out of it, like Oral Roberts came out of it.

06:38Billy Graham has an intersection. He wasn't part of Latter Rain or anything like that,

06:43but there is an intersection. You have multiple movements that developed into the new apostolic

06:48reformation because Branham helped lay the framework for the apostolic networks that eventually evolved

06:56into what we see today. And before the years that they consider him to have gone astray,

07:03Branham upended what is the understanding, the Christian understanding of the covenants.

07:09And I remember my grandfather telling me this story. I clearly remember the first time I heard it,

07:16I was writing with my grandfather. We were going down to Bowling Green in Kentucky. We were in the

07:22car. I was sitting in the back seat. And I think I was reading a book, if I remember correctly.

07:27I was

07:27doing something while they were talking to entertain myself. And grandpa started telling this story and

07:33he mentioned Branham. So my ears perked up because I'm a Branhamite. I want to say I was probably age

07:3916, maybe 17 at this point. Anyway, we're traveling. He says, and one day I was reading through and he

07:48mentioned one of the gospels. I wish I could remember which. And he said, I came to realize that

07:54salvation is based on faith in Jesus Christ. And it's a blessing that's given to you,

07:59not anything that you can do. And I think he referenced Ephesians where it says it's by

08:04grace you're saved through faith, not of works. Blessed no man should boast if you know that

08:10passage. And he said, I remember years ago and my grandfather came into this movement in the

08:18mid fifties. So this is in the height of Branham's latter rain career. And he says, I'm sitting alone

08:25with, and he said, brother Branham. So I'm using that, that awful word brother. I was sitting with

08:31brother Branham at the table and I was explaining what I had just read. And he said, brother Branham

08:37got this quiet look on his face. And he looked around like this and this and said, don't you never

08:42tell nobody that. And grandpa was simply talking about salvation. And William Branham, you know, at the

08:50time I thought, well, man, it must be a great mystery. We must not want all of these other

08:55people to be saved. And I got to thinking about all my friends back home who are in school, you

09:00know,

09:00and different things were running through my head. And I was thinking, well, that's, that's a little

09:05bit sad. You know, why would we not want to share this information? But that's how it was. Branham did

09:11not understand that it was for God. So loved the world that he sent his only begotten son,

09:16the framing of what, what is the target of the new covenant was altered in Branham's view.

09:24And remember, he's the leader of this revival. So everybody's coming to him,

09:28gathering his information. Some of them may have disagreed. Yes, but they still touted him as the

09:34great leader. And he was still influential. And many crowds would come to listen to him.

09:41Even churches that did not fully agree with Branham would invite their entire church

09:46to come listen to one of these healing revival speeches and then watch the healing lines because

09:51they were, the intent was the focus on the great miracle signs and wonders. The theology,

09:58what took second place to the miracles. And that's part of the problem that evolved into the charismatic

10:04movement and new apostolic reformation. The focus on the gifts is much more strongly enforced than the

10:11focus on the doctrine. So you had these churches that were gathering together, listening to the leader

10:17who doesn't understand the gospel and in fact wants to conceal the gospel. If you understand what he was

10:24telling my grandfather, and it all comes back to the discussion of the covenants. So first, let's talk a

10:32bit about new covenant gospel. There are, if you are unfamiliar with this term, number one, you can just

10:39simply go to a church that is not a cult independent, not something that developed from this framework,

10:47go to any mainstream church. And they are very clear about the gospel. That's, that's the focus.

10:54And then they add their doctrines on top of it. And that's why they have denominations. But at its core,

10:59they will tell you what is the new covenant and what is the gospel. Everyone that I have tried out,

11:05and I've attended a few different ones, they all in one way, shape or form, will go back and tell

11:10you

11:11what the covenants are, especially if you get into the study groups. But basically, the new covenant

11:18was established when Jesus came to earth, died on the cross for the salvation of the sins. And there is

11:26a liberation that happens. And you have to understand the covenants to understand what this liberation is

11:31and why. You also have to understand the historical context of the words that are spoken by Jesus.

11:39Many people read the Bible as though it's one static timeline written to you. But Jesus was coming

11:47to earth, Jesus came to earth, according to the gospels, to speak to the Jews who were still under the

11:53Mosaic law. And so many of the things he said are in reference to a law for a covenant that

12:00was still in

12:01place. So when you read things like, I came to fulfill the law, yes, he did. He's talking in that

12:07time frame. They're still under the Mosaic law, the Mosaic covenant. So you have to understand the

12:13time frames. And then once you understand this, you can read through passages like Luke, I think it's

12:21Luke 18, Luke 4, 18 through 19, talking about the gospel mission that's coming, the liberation,

12:28the language, without any theocratic coercion. And that's really the key if you're studying the New

12:36Apostolic Reformation. Most people have misconceptions because other doctrines have been

12:42tacked on or stapled on very loosely to what is the New Covenant under the New Apostolic Reformation.

12:50So there's different passages you can read that talk about the covenants. The book of Hebrews,

12:55if you just simply read it, it talks about the old covenant, the some of the issues with it. And

13:01then

13:02now we have a new high priest. So it goes through, it walks you through this. The book of Galatians,

13:08very often, if you're reading through Galatians, you can find things that completely overturn what I

13:13grew up with. That'll help you as well. But anyway, there are many passages that you can read that

13:19will help you to go through this. But let's begin instead by talking about what is a covenant.

13:25And if you are a researcher who's in a mainstream church, this part, you probably already know

13:31this. And this is going to be boring to people who are indoctrinated in this type of movement.

13:37You're probably going to hear things that you've never heard before. I know I did the first time

13:41I heard them. But if you stick with me, I'm going to explain why the language barrier exists and why

13:50it's so difficult for people who are in a gospel-based church to understand people who are in

13:56a, I don't even know what you call this, a church that has misconstrued and misunderstood what are the

14:03covenants. So I'm going to try to break down that language barrier if I can. So let's begin by talking

14:09about what is a covenant. A covenant is a binding relationship that's established by oath with

14:16promises, obligations, sanctions, often a sign. And it can be between people. And it can also be

14:24between people and groups of people and God. And there are multiple covenants that are described

14:30in the Bible. I'm just going to go through some of the major covenants between God and humans.

14:36And you can kind of understand what's happening and why the language is being skewed a bit.

14:42Because without fully understanding exactly the definition of each covenant, what happens is you

14:49find people who are teaching, who don't understand the covenants, and they try to mix the covenants.

14:55So whenever a person who understands the covenants, who's in a mainstream church that is very open about

15:02discussing the covenants and how the gospel relates to the new covenant, they may be talking to a person

15:08who has been influenced, who has no idea that these covenants aren't really to be mixed. It's a covenant.

15:15It's a binding relationship that is established and pre-established to a specific group of people or

15:22between people and God. So further reading, if you want to read more about some of the covenants,

15:28you can read, I think, Genesis 15 talks about a covenant pattern with Abraham.

15:35Exodus 24 talks about a covenant that's ratified by blood. Deuteronomy, I think it's 29,

15:42talks about a covenant with oath binding. Hebrews is a good one to go through because you can read

15:47Hebrews and read through how there was an old covenant that established the priesthood and now

15:54we're under a new covenant. We have a new high priest. The entire book of Hebrews is a good read.

15:59If you really want to understand the separation between the covenants, my favorite is to just go

16:06to Galatians and read what Paul says about the covenants. But there are some major covenants between

16:12God and humans. And most ministers who have heard in all categories, whether it's Pentecostal

16:20fundamentalism, the cults, mainstream churches, etc., most of them understand the covenant with Noah,

16:30because this is a very easy thing to understand. God told Noah, I will never destroy the world by flood,

16:37and I will put a sign of the rainbow, and you will know that I have made this covenant with

16:41you.

16:42It's very difficult to mix that covenant. You're not going to mix it, say, for example,

16:48with the Mosaic law covenant where you can't eat shellfish. You don't find too many ministers saying,

16:53and God won't destroy the world by flood, and there's a rainbow sign, and therefore don't eat

16:59shellfish. It's very difficult to mix that one. And there is a covenant with Abraham. There's a promise

17:07of blessing to all families on the earth. You can read that. I think it's Genesis 12, if I remember

17:14correctly, maybe 15. I think the covenant is confirmed. You can go through and read. If you just

17:34find it mixed, people talking about the covenant with Abraham, how his seed will be blessed, and

17:41all of the children of Abraham will be blessed by God. Well, that blessing for Abraham and his seed,

17:50it is mentioned in the New Testament. And so, therefore, without fully understanding how the

17:56covenants work, that gets applied to the New Covenant. And while, yes, you can say that the

18:03New Covenant Christians are under this blessing because of the trail of history, they are, in fact,

18:09two separate covenants. One is to Abraham. One is the New Covenant that was established.

18:14So, understanding the difference is key because if you don't understand the difference, you begin to

18:21mix the covenants. And in doing so, you have created a New Covenant that doesn't exist.

18:27If you think in terms of a contract, which a covenant is much, much more than a contract,

18:33if I have a covenant with my bank that I'm going to have a car, I'm going to lease the

18:41money for

18:42this car, I'm going to pay the bank back. They've created a covenant, partially. It's just simply a

18:46contract. If it were to be a real covenant, they would say, and you will get the blessing of driving

18:52your car. You will get the blessing of brakes that will not fail you. And I will put a sign

18:58in the

18:58heavens and you will know that this is your car. And I had a different covenant with a house and

19:04same kind of deal. I would never mix these. I would never make a house payment for my car

19:10and I would never make a car payment for my house. It doesn't make sense to do that. And

19:15the contract that is written for my car doesn't really apply to the house.

19:20Maybe it's the same bank. Do I owe the bank the money? Yes, I do. But they're not going to

19:25care if

19:26I send them a check that's written to the bank, you know, for the account for my car.

19:32If I'm late on a bank on a home payment, they're going to still hit me pretty hard because I

19:37failed

19:37to make a payment to my house. Those are contracts. They're not really covenants. But think of the

19:44covenants much in the same way. They're established separately. Yes, God, if you, in that example,

19:51God might be the bank, you might say, yes, it is the same God. Yes, you may be receiving some

19:56of the

19:56same blessings, but they are two separate covenants. Now, the one that gets really mixed,

20:02and this is where it really goes into more of a historical conversation than it does a theological

20:09conversation, is the Mosaic covenant, the Mosaic law. You can read through Exodus and

20:18through Deuteronomy, you can kind of get pieces of this, but unless you really dig in,

20:23it's going to be difficult to understand. From my own experience, as I read the Bible over and over

20:29and over after leaving the cult, I will say that it was truly difficult for me to understand

20:34the covenants. And so what happens are people read through them without any background. They just start

20:41reading the text. And without having that understanding of the custom of a covenant,

20:48you really can't grasp what was made between God and man. A good way to think about the complexities

20:56of a covenant. What is a covenant? Think about today's world. In today's world, we have the United

21:03States Constitution, and that is our civil code of conduct. Basically, it's establishing a set of

21:10rules and guidelines that we in the United States follow as part of our civil law. And we have

21:16amendments to that constitution for things ongoing that we see need a civil decision made. And here is

21:25the ultimate source of truth for those decisions. That's the United States Constitution. There was an

21:31attempt to separate church and state, although the New Apostolic Reformation is trying to break down those

21:37barriers. But there was initially an attempt to separate church and state so much that we could

21:44understand the Constitution as not a religious code, but it was a civil code. But in the ancient world, there

21:51was not such a thing. Your religion, your church, your state, it was all one bundle. When you think of

21:57Judaism, you think of Yahweh. When you think of Rome, you had the different Roman gods that were part of

22:03each custom and civilization, city in that civilization. So you had a strong binding between the God of the

22:12people and the conduct code of the people. It was no different in ancient Israel. So you had civil law,

22:19you had ceremonial law, religious law, etc. And a good example of this is Matthew 19. The Pharisees corner

22:28Jesus and they ask him about marriage and divorce. And Jesus says something to the effect that Moses

22:34allowed this because of the hardness of your heart. So those who are in the debate that between the old

22:41covenant and the new covenant, whether it's established fully by God and fully enforced by God,

22:47think of that one single example. Moses allowed it. What is being discussed here is a civil code of

22:54conduct. Moses mediated the Mosaic law. That's why it's called the Mosaic law. And mediated through

23:02Moses, divorce was permitted. And he required a certificate in that scenario because not because

23:08divorce is good, but because apparently people were already doing it. So why would Moses permit it at all?

23:15Jesus gave the reason because of the hardness of your heart. I think that's Matthew 19.8.

23:21And this means essentially that Israel's law included concessions to limit damage in a sinful society.

23:28So the law had specific limits in it. And the certificate basically functioned like a constraint

23:35and a protection, especially for women who could not be discarded. So rather than put females into this,

23:42this horrific state, this was allowed in the civil code of conduct. And that civil code was part of

23:50the Mosaic law. So again, when you think of, I use shellfish as an example, but let's use a different

23:56example. There's an example for stoning your children if they disobey. In today's world, our civil law would

24:03not permit that. In fact, you would go to prison if you were to kill one of your kids. Under

24:09the Mosaic

24:10law, this was different because that was part of their civil code of conduct. That was their culture.

24:14It was more of a civil code than it was a religious code. And people who leave religion altogether

24:22because they've been taught this narcissistic version of God. It's often because of examples

24:27like this, they attribute the civil code, the custom code to what the deity is pushing in our case,

24:35Yahweh. And they leave it all together because if God looks like this, we want no part of it.

24:39Because in today's code of conduct, we would not stone our children. Moses and the ancient Israelites had

24:47customs that were establishing what would become a kingdom. You'll find in the Mosaic law all kinds

24:56of different categories of code. You'll find religious code, ceremonial code. You'll find things in the

25:03Mosaic law in those passages that are talking about how not to grow mold in your huts. And whenever you,

25:10when you listen to a minister who's preaching a mixture of law and grace and saying, yes, we're still

25:17bound by the old covenant, you often don't find them talking about mold growing in your huts or

25:22the shellfish conversation. In fact, you'll find many of the ministers who are trying to put people

25:27under that old covenant eating at an all you can eat buffet on Sunday afternoon and eating shellfish.

25:34It's kind of funny when you think about it. And there are passages in the New Testament that say,

25:40if you try to uphold the law, which is the old covenant, and you fail in one piece,

25:44you're guilty of the whole law. What does this mean? Say that I paid off my house. And this is

25:50a very loose example because a covenant is much more than a contract, but say I'm in a covenant,

25:56a contract for my house, and I tell the bank, okay, I'm done paying and I've missed a payment.

26:02Well, they're not going to give me the house, man. It's a binding contract. Well, a covenant was bound

26:09by oath. It was a two part. In some cases, it was two parts. Some cases, it was just a

26:14blessing of

26:15God. I will never do this thing. I'll never destroy the water, the world by water. You'll see a sign

26:20in

26:20the rainbow and you'll remember that I have made this covenant with you that you do nothing for.

26:26You just simply live and I won't destroy the world by water. That was a one way covenant that

26:33wasn't a contract. So understanding the separation of the covenants is key. There's also a covenant

26:43with David. And if you understand the Davidic covenant, there are key elements of that covenant

26:50that has messianic language. And because of this, you'll find some ministers who try to mix the Davidic

27:00covenant with the new covenant of grace. When you do this, again, if you try to mix two covenants,

27:08what you end up with is not either. They're separate. Another way to say this, I have on my

27:17desk different books and I've got, looking over here, I've got a Dilbert book all dressed up,

27:24all dressed down with nowhere to go. And I've got, I don't know, a far side book. So I've got

27:32these

27:32two books on my desk right now that I have been reading as, as research content. And if I were

27:39to

27:39tell you that I'm going to take these two books and combine them together, and I'm going to have

27:43all dressed, all dressed down with nowhere to go, except the far side. I can say that all I want,

27:50but those are two separate books. And when you open them up, you're going to see the far side

27:54cartoons. You're going to see the Dilbert cartoons. No matter how I try to stretch the truth, these are

28:00two separate books. They can't be combined. No matter how hard a minister tries to take two different

28:06covenants and combine them, you can say that some elements may cross over, but you cannot combine them.

28:12They are two separate covenants. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started,

28:18or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic,

28:24and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on

28:30William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org. On the books page of the

28:37website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,

28:43John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.

28:50You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements.

28:56If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute

29:01button at the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that

29:07you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to

29:13thank you for your support. So I mentioned that this was going to be a historical podcast and everybody

29:18who's listening thinks I just went into theology. But what I actually did was I just simply described

29:25what I read, which any of you can read, without a theologian. You just simply need to open up the

29:31Bible

29:31and read the passages. Now I'm going to go a little bit deeper into the new covenant of grace,

29:37and it's going to sound like I'm getting into theology a bit, but I have to before I get into

29:43the history. And there's a reason for this. So as I've described, there were covenants,

29:49there were multiple. The one that I focused on last was the Mosaic covenant, which is basically

29:55when you hear people talk about the Mosaic law, or they're under the law, they're in a

30:01works righteous faith, there's different phrases that are used by people who are on the outside

30:07looking in, that people on the inside looking out can't understand. Why is this? Because of that

30:14merging of covenants that I described earlier, you had the Mosaic law, which Moses was the mediator,

30:20he was the executor, he was the one who was the interface between God and man. And you have the

30:28new covenant, which was established by Jesus. The other thing to understand about covenants as it

30:34relates to the contract examples that I gave, in the examples I gave with the contract for my car,

30:41the contract for my house, there is a clear starting point and a clear ending point. In those

30:47contracts, I begin, I take out a bank loan, I owe, I don't know what it is $5,000. They

30:54give me the

30:54$5,000 loan, I start paying the loan. At the end of the 5000 plus interest, then the car is

31:01mine. And

31:02I'm no longer bound by that contract. I'm free. I'm free. Welcome, welcome to freedom. Well, in these

31:10covenants, some of them have start and end dates, some of them do not. There is no end date mentioned

31:17that I can find for the covenant with Noah, there will always be a rainbow, that was the sign given

31:22to the covenant, I will never again, destroy the whole water, the whole world by water. So that's a

31:29never ending covenant by between God and man, that really has nothing that man should do to keep that

31:37covenant. In other words, in the contract example, I'm not making any more payments, it's just free,

31:42the car is yours. The mosaic law was a bit different. And it's not so much that an end date

31:50was declared in the covenant itself. But some covenants have replacement covenants. And the best way to

31:58understand that is to read the New Testament when it talks about clear examples where the covenant

32:05that God established with Moses was being replaced by the new covenant. My favorite book for that is

32:11Hebrews, you can go to Hebrews eight, verse 13 says, in that he saith a new covenant, he hath made

32:17the

32:17first old, now that which decayeth and waxes old is ready to vanish away. I'm reading in the Queen's

32:24English, the KJV. So when people who are on the outside looking in, have a conversation about the

32:31new covenant of grace, and make the statement, but you're under the old covenant, and people who are in

32:37that mindset, where they're still perpetually in that old covenant, they're usually referring to this

32:44exact specific point, when a new covenant covenant is established, that is replacing the old, the old one goes

32:51away. A good example of this, I refinance my car. Again, a contract is much more simplistic than

32:59the covenants. But say with the bank, I, I took out a loan for 5000, I still owe 2000. And

33:05I want a

33:06better interest rate, I take out another loan. Well, I'm not bound by that first contract when I replace

33:12the second one. So a new covenant with my bank has been established, and I'm using air quotes on

33:18covenant. Because now I have a new contract, and the new contract is supersedes the old contract.

33:25And there will be verbiage that says, your old contract goes away. That is exactly what the book

33:31of Hebrews is. It is a statement of transition between the old covenant and the new covenant.

33:38In verse 86, it says, we've obtained a more excellent ministry, the mediator of a better covenant.

33:47So in my example, I had a better interest rate. And because I had a better interest rate, my new

33:53covenant with my bank is better than my old covenant. That's exactly what Hebrews 8 says.

34:01Now, say I wanted to change my bank, I want to go to a different bank, because the better interest

34:06rate is with the other bank. Hebrews 7 verse 12 says, for the priesthood being changed, there is made a

34:14necessity also a change of the law. It's talking about a different priesthood. There's also a change

34:21to the law. So in my simplistic car example, there's a change of the bank, there's also a change of

34:28the

34:28interest rate. It's clearly detailing in Hebrews the changes that are being made to the covenant,

34:35and entering into basically a new covenant that supersedes the old. But it's really, really

34:42explicit. If you read Hebrews 10 verse 9, he taketh away the first that he may establish the second.

34:49And the example of my bank, the bank taketh away the first one that I had, the one with the

34:56higher

34:56interest rate, so that they may establish the lower interest rate. And you can find this kind

35:02of language all throughout the Bible. There's, there's talk about the covenants and the some of

35:07them are forever covenants, some of them are contractual elements to the covenant between God

35:13and man things that you must do. In the Mosaic law, there were blessings, if you kept the law curses,

35:19if you failed at the law. And the New Testament says, again, if you fail in any one point, you're

35:24guilty of the whole thing, which means essentially, you have the guilt of all of the curses. In the

35:30example of my bank, which is a very simplistic example, not a covenant, if I am guilty of missing

35:37one payment, and they repossess my car, I'm guilty of the whole car. That's, that's how simple this

35:43really gets. And you can read throughout the rest of the New Testament, Corinthians. Second

35:50Corinthians three, six, it says, he made us able ministers of the New Testament, not of the letter,

35:57but of the spirit. And what is being referred to specifically, is the letter of the law, if you

36:04understand the language that's being used, it's talking about those who live by the letter of the

36:10law, which is essentially saying those who live by works. And Paul, in many of his letters, he talks

36:16about it's not by works, but it's by grace. But yet we should also do good works if we can.

36:22I mean,

36:22that's really where it comes down to. So understanding that there was a old covenant, and that Moses was

36:31the arbitrator, the, I don't know which, there's a, there's a word for this in the ancient Jewish system,

36:37but he's basically the one who is doing the intercessory work between God and man in establishing

36:43the covenant, I think is one way to say it very simplistic way. Go listen to a theologian because

36:50that's theology and you can understand it better. Historically, let's, let's get into that a bit.

36:56So historically, if you were a Christian and you were based in a gospel Christian church,

37:04and by gospel, I mean, someone who understands that there was an old covenant, that there were

37:09curses associated with that covenant. If you failed, has read the books of Kings and understood

37:16the historical books of the Bible to understand where Israel failed, understands the context of the

37:23prophets who came to not predict futures, like they tried to say in the NAR charismatic circles,

37:31but as voices, mouthpieces of God for that covenant. That's really key to understand.

37:39So God establishes this covenant. He's working with Moses and says, if you uphold the law,

37:45I will give you these blessings. If you fail in the law, I will give you these curses.

37:50Well, how is man going to know if God is going to give a curse? Back then, according to what

37:56you read

37:56in the old Testament, there was the voice of the prophet who would say, because Israel,

38:00you have done this horrific thing. You brought idolatry into the camp, which includes human

38:05sacrifice and all of these other things, because you did this awful thing. Here's the curse that's

38:10coming. Yes, it was a futuristic prophecy. Yes, there was a future element, but the focus was actually

38:18back on the covenant. That's why they're called Old Covenant, Old Testament prophets, if you understand

38:24that concept. British Israelism skewed all of this, because in the British Israel notion, which was

38:34completely pseudo archaeological nonsense, the people of the British Isles, and then later extended to the

38:44United States and Canada were the descendants of the lost 10 tribes of Israel. That was the notion that

38:51they created. And when they did this, there were, this was not a, so much a religious movement as, as

38:59it

38:59was a, I don't even know what you call it, pseudo-political theocratic movement that was basically saying,

39:07we're the good guys, everyone else is the bad guys. That's, it was more for the elite people in Great

39:14Britain. Well, once this came over into the United States, there wasn't really an understanding that it

39:22was just supposed to be a fraternal order. I think that's how it was attempting to be established.

39:27Instead, they thought, well, if it's old, if this is a descendant of the lost 10 tribes of Israel,

39:33it must be a religious thing. And so they started integrating religion into it. Not to say that this

39:39only happened in the United States. You can look in the history, Michael Barkun's book is the best one

39:44I've read called Religion and the Racist Right. You can kind of get how this history evolves over time,

39:52but it's essentially a notion that they are royalty that eventually ends up to this is a religious

39:59system that we will combine all kinds of doctrines with it. And we will reinterpret the Old Testament

40:05to find out what blessings we get because we're part of this Jewish system. And that's really the

40:12key to understand how this began to devolve and turn into this big mess.

40:18So the British Israel system, because it was a continuation of the tribes of Israel logic,

40:24not a new covenant logic. It was more focused on the Israel side. There were ministers who began

40:31reading the Old Testament and saying things like, I see this event happening today. It looks an awful

40:38lot like a similar event happened in the Old Testament. And because I can find a similarity,

40:44that must be a futuristic prophecy for today, written to our version of Israel that happened

40:52also in the Old Testament days, the ancient world. And so that was the shadow of the thing that we're

41:00seeing today. That was kind of the logic that was being applied. And so there were ministers who were

41:07trying to say that, yes, we are under a new covenant because we're Christian. However, we're also Israel.

41:14So we need to figure out which parts of the law we must keep to become holy. Much like the

41:22Pharisees

41:23were doing in Jesus' day that Jesus was condemning, religious leaders were doing in the, you know, in the

41:2920th, 1920 centuries. They were trying to say that we must become more holy because we are Israel. And

41:38there are numerous pathways that this comes into the Pentecostal movement, not just the two examples

41:45that I have researched heavily, but you can find the holiness movements did this by and large.

41:51But John Alexander Dowie took it to the extremes that I don't believe I've seen anybody else do.

41:57He tried, I kept using the shellfish example. He actually went through the mosaic code to try to

42:05determine what foods were appropriate for his group and what foods should be condemned. And when he

42:11established the cult city of Zion city in Illinois, there were actually civil codes in Zion city that did

42:20not permit eating pork, for example. And they would ridicule anybody from the outside world who ate pork.

42:27You can go read through some of his books and sermons. The language is very derogatory.

42:32What's he doing? He's trying to pick and choose which parts of the old covenant that his group could

42:38become more holy. And the idea is to achieve perfection. So this notion of cult, this cultish notion

42:47of perfectionism mixed with British Israelism mixed with the old covenant, which was being replaced,

42:54started to integrate old covenant ideas into new covenant thought. And Dowie is by far the best

43:02example that I've seen for this. There was also Frank Sanford who was teaching a school doing similar

43:08things. Both men were deeply, if you understand their theology, they were both deeply rooted in

43:14British Israelism. But Frank Sanford had a school that was apparently so large that Amelia Earhart,

43:23I believe it was her, she was flying over. She thought it was mistook it for the capital

43:28of Maine. It was, it was this massive, massive school that was somewhat world famous before the cult went

43:35destructive. And he was teaching British Israelism. You can find him praising, um,

43:42Cal Totten, for example, different figures in British Israelism, and he's spreading the British

43:46Israel doctrine. Charles Fox Parham, who is by many accounts, the father of modern Pentecostalism

43:54goes to both complexes, teaching British Israelism to learn how he can establish his own communal

44:03city in Kansas, and learns from these two British Israel teachers. Now, that's not to say that he

44:11went to the same extremes. I don't believe I have read anything about pork or shellfish or anything like

44:16this with Charles Fox Parham. But the idea, the framework of theology began to progress through Parham.

44:24And so in this early Proto-Pentecostal holiness adjacent movement, with Dowie, Sanford,

44:32Parham, all of these related streams, they're selectively choosing categories of Old Testament

44:39code, the code that Moses wrote, for purity, the holy community, God city language,

44:48to try to establish community boundaries. And I think that's the key concept to understand. It isn't

44:54so much the theology as it is. Historically, they were trying to reinvent a partial Mosaic law religion.

45:05And they were the ones who were basically, they were mediating their own contract. There was no

45:11interface between God telling them, you must choose this, this, and this from the old covenant law.

45:17They were dictating what laws got adopted in their communities. And by those laws, they deemed people

45:23either holy or unholy. And so this turned into a new covenant altogether, had nothing to do with the

45:32old covenant or the new covenant of grace that's mentioned in the Bible. This was literally their

45:37own covenants for their own city. And it became part of their own civil code. Worse, I don't believe from

45:45anything that I have read that any of these figures that I have mentioned fully understood the old

45:51covenant and its complexities. You don't find them separating and understanding what was the civil

45:59code versus the ceremonial code. With Dowie, it was all one in the same. This is all the Mosaic code.

46:05We are to adopt it. But then he would take certain elements out of the old covenant law, which was

46:11very interesting if you think about it. But what were they doing? They were establishing new communities

46:17and new standards for holiness. Because in doing so, as central figures of their movements, they could

46:24say that our group is clearly different from this other group. And they would proceed to say things

46:31that would insinuate that their group was better than the other group. So among all of the different

46:36holiness groups that had emerged, they were the elite. And as it relates to the new apostolic

46:42reformation, the cults, the Pentecostal cults, the latter reign, understanding the elitism is key.

46:49And that's a core part of the history of how this movement not only evolved, but separated from the

46:56gospel. Men who didn't understand the covenants, teaching parts of the old covenant law as though it

47:03were written for today's world, combining with British Israelism to say that we are the Israelites

47:09for which this code was written. And the best way to say it is just fully avoiding the book of

47:16Hebrews.

47:17The part where it says this was an old covenant and it's being replaced is fully wiped out in their

47:24minds. So that established the framework that was built upon. Fast forward to the latter reign movement.

47:32In the latter reign movement, William Branham, who didn't understand the gospel at all,

47:38or if he did understand it, he tried to conceal it, much like the example I gave with my grandfather.

47:44He was mentored in the revivals by F.F. Bosworth, who was out of

47:48Daoi's Zion City, who was actually leadership in Zion City. So being mentored by somebody who had that

47:55background, he was also led by his campaign manager, who was Gordon Lindsay, who founded later Christ for

48:03the Nations, and still today teaches all kinds of doctrine that has this root, maybe not the same

48:11level of heresy, but has this root. Lindsay's family were in Zion City, and his family had joined the

48:20Parham sect towards the end. And they moved out to be with John G. Lake, who was also in the

48:26same

48:26sect in Zion City. He was a Parhamite. So they carried forward the Parham stream, the Charles Fox

48:33Parham stream of this doctrine. Branham was being led by, mentored by, trained by, working with,

48:40collaborated with, wrote editorial articles for in his Voice of Healing magazine, and strongly promoted

48:47leaders who had this ideology. And they carried it a step further. Whenever the latter rain movement broke

48:55out, not only did they sort of copy what what Zion City had, they didn't take it to the same

49:04level of

49:04extremes. But they copied the idea that the Mosaic code should be filtered by an apostle or prophet

49:13as the spoken word for what they should mediate between God and man in this new version of a

49:19covenant they're creating. Well, they took it a step further, and they tried to introduce parts of the

49:25ceremonial law, especially with regards to the feasts. They went through the Mosaic code, they tried to,

49:34I don't know, tried to categorize the feasts and apply them into today's world, which can't really

49:40be applied at all, much like the example of that I gave of the two books. But they tried to,

49:46and they

49:46tried to say that these feasts will be established leading up to the great feast, which will be the

49:52great harvest that eventually ended up into this billion souls harvest idea. There will be this great

49:58feast, this great celebration. And I know Branham did. I think some of the others did. They relied

50:05heavily on the Old Testament prophets to predict futures that were being discussed as part of the

50:14Old Covenant dialogue, that basically the interface between God and man was the prophet for the Old

50:21Covenant. They were trying to say that that interface between God and man as it related to the feasts

50:28was being spoken through the prophets of the Old Testament, but also being that shadow was being

50:35made plain today through the new fivefold ministry concept. And they created this hierarchical structure

50:42where there's an apostle, then a prophet, then all the way down the Ephesians fivefold ministry tiers.

50:48They created as a pyramid where at the top you had the elites. They basically became the Moseses that were

50:56mediating the new covenants that they were establishing, while not calling it a covenant,

51:02but establishing a new covenant that was replacing, literally replacing the old covenant of law and the

51:09new covenant of grace. They were creating something different. And Branham was very, very clear about this

51:15in the revivals. He would say, the word for Moses' day won't work in the days of Paul. The word

51:21for Paul's

51:21day won't work in our day. What was he doing? He was saying very clearly that there was a covenant

51:28established with Moses. That was for Moses' people. There was a covenant established for Paul. That was

51:34for Paul's people. Today, we have a new covenant. And it's the, you know, during those years, it was

51:39probably the latter rain. Later on, when he abandoned the latter rain movement, it became something even more

51:46destructive and entirely different than that. But he was essentially saying, we have now a new

51:51covenant that replaces the new covenant of grace in Paul's day. And I know that there are people who

51:57are Branhamites who aren't yet aware that he did this, but think back to one of the examples he gave

52:04was

52:04this weird vision where he claimed that he had seen the other side and he saw these people marching

52:11through with their leader as though Christianity were some weird leadership model. And he saw all these

52:17people rejoicing and they were going to the throne to be judged. And they were Paul's people. And then he

52:24saw the most beautiful, wonderful people. And whose people are they? He asked somebody and they said, we're

52:29your people, Brother Branham. And he said, well, I've preached the same message as Paul. And they said, we're

52:34resting on that. If you understand that idea, he was basically, if you look at the God's generalist

52:43thing, Paul was the general for his people. Branham was the general for his people. Moses was the general

52:49for his people. And combine that while in that example, he said, I preached the same message Paul

52:55did, but combine that with what he said outside of that sermon. He said that the message for Paul's day

53:01won't work today. What was Paul preaching? He was preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. He was

53:07preaching the new covenant. You can read through Galatians. You can read through all of the books

53:11that I've mentioned. Paul is preaching the new covenant gospel. So if that won't work for today,

53:18Branham is saying before all of these crowds of people, all of these leadership roles that have

53:25evolved into the new apostolic reformation today, who did accept him at this point of time?

53:31They believe that the word for Paul, which was the gospel, which was the new covenant,

53:37won't work for today if they adopted what Branham said. So he essentially wiped away the old covenant

53:44and the new covenant and tried to reestablish something altogether different, which was a

53:50combination of all of those. That's why he picked some things out of the Mosaic law and said, we must

53:56do

53:56these things. And he picked things that Jesus or Paul said and said, we must also do these things

54:03and tried to establish it such that it was a contract that he was the mediator of Branham

54:10between God and man. And in this contract, you must a follow the leader that was part of his contract.

54:18If you abandoned that leader, if you walked away and said, I remain Christian, but I'm no longer

54:24Branham. Or if it was Oral Roberts, I'm no longer a Oral Roberts guy. Well, if you abandon your leader,

54:31you were breaking your covenant that was mediated between the leader and God. So it was a new

54:38covenant altogether. That wasn't the gospel. It wasn't the old covenant. It wasn't the new covenant,

54:43but it was a merger of all of the covenants of the Bible, including the Davidic covenant.

54:51And if you understand that history, and you also understand what is contained in those covenants,

54:58then understand that something new was created. Fast forward to today's language, the kingdom

55:04theology, the kingdom now theology. I've mentioned Wimber's theology. I know people hate me for this.

55:11If you understand the language that is being said in each one of these ministries,

55:15and understand that the new covenant that Branham had created, which replaced the new covenant of

55:20grace, it was a new, new covenant. Well, that language is being adopted in these groups,

55:26and they're carrying it forward today. There's much more that I could say about all of this,

55:31but honestly, I don't know that I could go there without really going deep into theology,

55:35which is something I try to avoid. If you want to understand that better, I recommend you go to your

55:41pastor. Most pastors will sit down and they'll talk through and explain this and try to do it in such

55:47a

55:47way that you can understand. If you're like me, and you just want to study it yourself, I've mentioned

55:53the books, but you can study Leviticus for the feasts. And I may get this wrong, you may have to

55:58go look me up,

55:59make sure that I'm correct. But Exodus has the tabernacle pattern, the tabernacle language that

56:05was being adopted in the new, new apostolic reformation frameworks. John, I think it is the

56:12gospel of John has the tabernacle imagery, if I'm correct. But Galatians, that's one of my favorite

56:19reads, because it unders, you begin to understand that there is a clear separation between the old

56:24covenant and the new covenant. Hebrews, it's like the historical contractual. I look at it much like

56:32it is the contract language that describes the new document that's being signed is replacing the old

56:40document that's being signed. Hebrews walks you through the fulfillment of the old covenant,

56:45the new priesthood that's being established, the different changes that were going to happen as

56:52related to the new covenant. And, you know, there's different passages that you can go through.

56:58But those are usually the ones that I recommend people target. And just read the Bible yourself.

57:04I mean, start in the New Testament, read it all, and you'll find the new covenant because it is

57:08in the New Testament. There is no language, does not exist in the New Testament, that says we will

57:15eventually have an apostle or prophet who is going to give us a new new covenant that replaces the old

57:21covenant. And you will ignore parts of the old covenant and you will ignore parts of the new covenant

57:27and adhere to the new new covenant, which must be executed by, led by, mediated by, interceded by

57:35an apostle or prophet in the New Apostolic Reformation or its history. You won't find that language because it

57:43just simply does not exist. But so much more I could say. But like I say, it's, it dives into

57:49theology and I'll let you talk that through with your pastors. So if you enjoy the show and you want

57:55more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at william-brannum.org.

57:59For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion

58:04from Christian Identity to the NAR, available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

59:02For more information, you can visit www.ongre retourcouAY.co.uk

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