00:00We're having the conversation about Deshaun right now and we reacted to some of Andrew Barry's
00:04comments, some of Jimmy Haslam's comments on the entire situation with Deshaun's possibility to
00:08play. Obviously today we also hear from Todd Munkin and I think there were some really interesting
00:13things that got thrown out there that didn't necessarily directly align with the strong push
00:20for Deshaun, right? Because I think that I would have looked at Barry and I would have looked at
00:24Jimmy Haslam's comments and I would have said if anything came out of the quarterback spot,
00:27it's that maybe Deshaun has a higher ranking than where the fans saw him at. But Todd
00:32Munkin came in and talked about, hey, what's that kind of offseason program going to look
00:36at when these two guys get to throw? And he explained it as about clearly as you could
00:40imagine. I wouldn't say they're going to be evenly dispersed, but we'll definitely disperse
00:44them to give ourselves a chance to at least evaluate who we have on the roster, whoever
00:49that might be. I basically, what we've seen in the past and where the year ended last
00:55year. I'm not ready to say that yet. I just said the reps, the reps can't be divided up
01:01evenly. There's no chance it can be divided up evenly, at least on a daily basis.
01:06So, obviously, you get, I think...
01:10I feel like I'm standing on the tracks looking down and I see that light getting
01:13closer. That's a, listening to Todd, like Todd is truth serum, okay? I think that's one
01:22of his greatest strengths is he tells you what's on his mind, but it also might be his Achilles
01:26heel as well. And just like listening to that, yeah, I just, I'm just thinking this isn't
01:35going to end well for anybody.
01:37Well, you know what I say? I look at it a little differently because I think what he's trying
01:41to say, first of all, is that I agree with, you know, Deshaun is better than fans think
01:46he is, but don't forget about Shador. Don't forget about anybody. Now, when he says the reps
01:51aren't going to be split equally, that doesn't mean they're not going to be fair. First of all,
01:55no one cares in football if it's fair, but that means they're getting quality reps against
01:59multiple looks, multiple fronts, multiple blitzes, multiple coverages, as live as that
02:03can be. And that would be obviously in the Buffalo joint practice. But, you know, what
02:09he's saying right there, I know that there's a lot of cliché in what he says right there,
02:12but again, as a fan of football, I look at it and say, if it's true and everybody's kind
02:17of starting with it, it's not, everybody says fresh eyes. It's not fresh eyes. This is just
02:21a new start and everybody's kind of on the same boat and everybody's on the same
02:24plane and everybody's, and that's the reality of it. And for good and for bad.
02:29Well, I will say that I think we can eliminate one guy.
02:33You don't think Dylan's getting that?
02:34Yeah, I don't agree. I don't think that they're all that worried about giving
02:38Dylan Gabriel reps right now.
02:40Well, all the things that happened with Shador, though, are the same things that happened to
02:43Dylan. Now, Shador was very impactful when he got there. I have no doubt saying that.
02:47But the idea of, with a new coach, maximizing what he can do, there is, I've watched a lot
02:55of film on Dylan Gabriel. He was not as bad as he played sometimes last year. And that's
02:58the reality of it. Same with, it can be said about Shador Sanders when they talk about his
03:01bad habits. Those are some of the things he had to do to be successful at Colorado. I
03:06don't know. I would like to see a fresh slate for not only Shador and Deshaun, but that
03:10includes Dylan Gabriel, too. If it's a backup, it's a backup, whatever it is. But I think he
03:15can be successful in the right scheme with people around him. Now, he's got to have good
03:19pieces. There's no doubt. But I'm not selling him short, either.
03:22See, I thought it was interesting, because he mentions, you know, kind of the way last
03:27year ended having an impact on the quarterback battle. And I mean, at some point, when you
03:32walk in, like when you're a new coach, I have to imagine part of your evaluation of
03:36what you have as a team is also going back and looking at at least how the season ended.
03:40And you went, OK, well, you're starting quarterback at the end of last year with Shador.
03:43We got to see what we saw out of him. We didn't get to see Deshaun. Like if I'm opening
03:48up camp, it's not Shador's job to lose. But you were the starter last year. Like you were
03:52the guy who was in place. Deshaun was not healthy last year and is going to have to come
03:56back and kind of prove that. So, hey, starting day one, this team's going to pick up where
04:00they left off because that's where we're at in the quarterback competition is. Day one,
04:03maybe Shador's getting more first team reps than Deshaun is. But that's not to say that
04:09day two. We don't toss then unequal reps where Deshaun's more with the first team.
04:15Shador's more with the second team. We're mixing these guys up. We're seeing how they
04:18look against, you know, different levels of the defense. The first team for the second
04:22team, whether it be the third team, you know, maybe they drop one of those guys down to say,
04:26hey, you have a lot less talent. What do you look like against even the less talented defense
04:30in things that you do well from that that you don't do with the second team? Just kind of mix
04:34things up. But it's not necessarily going to be equal. If I'm giving more reps to Shador and he
04:38wins over Deshaun day after day after day, why am I splitting the reps evenly? Right? Like if he
04:44never looks worse than Deshaun, why am I giving more reps to Deshaun to see if he can prove that
04:49he's a starter? It's on almost an earned basis. Yeah, everybody goes out there and has a chance
04:54to earn it. But if you're looking better against the first team than Deshaun is against the second
04:58team, I don't know that I should be like, I'll test Deshaun with the first team, but I'm not just
05:02going to throw in the bulk of reps every single day too. I just find it interesting that the Browns
05:06are making it known to everybody that the possibility of Deshaun starting week one is
05:14legit. It's not for show. It's, you know, all the insiders are talking about it now. And I'm
05:24concerned by that. Also too, though, I don't know how you can run a fair quarterback competition
05:30without dividing the reps equally, without putting guys in identical situations to see
05:36which one performs better in that situation. So I would probably push back a little bit
05:43on Todd on that. Like, how are you going to run a fair quarterback competition if you're
05:48not evaluating Deshaun and Shadour in the same drills, in the same situations, right?
05:56To see the differences in performance, assuming that there will be differences in performance,
06:02right? When you go back in the film room and you're watching practice, right? Where you can
06:06compare and contrast. Hey, here's how Deshaun looked in the two-minute drill red zone offense.
06:10Here's how Shadour looked in the two-minute drill red zone offense. Or whatever it is, right?
06:16Backed up on your goal line. Four-minute offense, five-minute offense. Whatever it is that you're
06:21running, right? I would think that as a coach, and I'll leave this to Coach Riz to talk about,
06:28but if I were a coach, I would want, if it's a true quarterback competition,
06:34mano-a-mano, I would want identical film, situational film on both guys to help me pick
06:43the best player. Well, you know, the thing, that's the way you should do it. That's really hard to do,
06:48though, because you're always going to get different looks from a defense. So that becomes
06:51scripted, and it's really, really hard. The thing that I will say that we won't know is that it's
06:55a new offense. So with new offense comes new terminology. What, you know, how does a quarterback
07:01kind of lead into the season before he starts to practice? Well, being a new offense, there's a
07:05couple ways. One is terminology. Does he understand the terminology? Does he understand fronts,
07:10coverages, and blitzes? Does he understand how to get in and out of a good run play going left or
07:15right? When they kill it, is it kill it to the right or left, or is it an entirely new
07:19play?
07:20How quickly can they pick that up? How quickly can they get in and out of the huddle? How much
07:24do they understand as they're putting in this new offense? You know, you're always sitting in a
07:29quarterback room, and I remember, like, being in a quarterback room where I was a younger guy,
07:33and there was a guy who was older, and he just kind of knew fronts and coverages and blitzes.
07:37And that kind of gives you an advantage when you're into practice, because you can practice a lot
07:40faster than the guy who's kind of still learning it. So, you know, how fast do they pick up all
07:45that stuff during the offseason with the new playbook? That will tie into it, too, because
07:49Todd Munkin's offense, remember, it's week to week. When they faced the Browns, they knew they
07:54were getting pressure. When they faced the Ravens, they knew they were getting more play in the line
07:59of scrimmage. So he does different things. So that quarterback's got to really be knowledgeable.
08:02That will tie into this as well. Not just the throws, which will be the primary, but can you get
08:08your guys in and out of the right play every single down? Coach, a question I would have on
08:13this is kind of how much of that, like, obviously, Daryl, both of you guys are going to be out
08:17there
08:17sitting at training camp watching all of this unfold. We're going to be able to see with their
08:21own two eyes, oh, this guy looks better, that guy looks better. How much of that is actually
08:24determined than behind the scenes? It's like, you have leadership qualities. You have how guys
08:28respond to each other in the locker room. You have all of the inner workings of the team that
08:32you're not necessarily going to see play out onto the field that also can give a guy an edge.
08:36Hey, we want to go to war with Shador Sanders, and maybe the guys are standoffish from Deshaun,
08:40even if he is, you know, it would have to be relatively close play. But if he's slightly
08:45outperforming Deshaun, but all the guys gravitate to Shador, think he has to step up in it or vice
08:49versa. How much of that plays into the competition? Go ahead. I think it has to. And I will tell
08:55you right now, Shador has a better chance of winning the locker room than Deshaun does.
08:58Well, you know, I think it's even when a real quick, because just my observations, like I go
09:05back to like when Joe Flacco, I hate going back to 2023, but like no, nobody gravitated to Deshaun's
09:14locker at any point in time in his time here. Okay. Like no one's congregating around his locker.
09:21Nobody wants wanted to hang out with him. Now I will acknowledge that's in public in front of the
09:26media, et cetera. That said, Pat said, everybody wanted to congregate and hang out with Joe Flacco
09:34in front of the media. You know what I'm saying? Like people wanted to hang out with Shador in front
09:40of the media and stuff like that. So if that is a metric, Shador is going to run away with
09:46that.
09:47Well, you know, I think that's, I'll give you an example of what I think Shador did very well last
09:52year. His numbers weren't as good as Dylan on paper, but you could feel the impact when,
09:56you know, as somebody who likes Dylan Gabriel, when he didn't play well, you felt the team
10:00when he came in, there's that it factor. He had it when they came in. You look at Samson,
10:04like the, you know, it wasn't a great throw, it was a swing pass, but he put it where he
10:08could catch it and run with it. A guy like Samson, that's my, my ultimate kind of like measuring
10:13stick. He was a different player when Shador played. He had, and that's the impact, right?
10:18That's that leadership. That's that, like, this guy has, you know, the juice. He's there
10:22every day. And a lot of that, you know. Raising the level of play of those around you.
10:26Yeah, sure. And that's a big thing. And even if you look at the numbers, you know, that doesn't
10:30tell the whole story when he got there. Sure, he had 10 interceptions, his incompletions,
10:34all that kind of good stuff. He had really good impact, I thought. And there's something
10:38you can kind of build on from there. You know, obviously that's, for me, that's what Dylan
10:42would have to do more than anything else. He's got to be impactful. He had no impact when
10:46he played. Shador did. And you saw it with his teammates. And that's, if that's the case,
10:50and once again, it will all come down to, who's going to help him win games? Because
10:53in the end, if you win games, you've got a chance. That's it. I'll say this. I felt
10:57like that they believed in Shador more than they believed in Dylan. And I got to be honest
11:01with you, I don't think they ever believed in Dylan. I really don't. And that may have
11:06contributed to the poor outcome from Dylan being on the field. Like, I don't think they
11:13ever believed in Dylan Gabriel. But with Shador, yeah. I mean, just the long completion
11:19to Isaiah Bond against the Raiders in Vegas, right? You saw they cut to the sideline at
11:27Miles Garrett. And Miles is like, whoa, what just happened? I'm not used to seeing quarterback
11:34play like that. You know, here. So I feel like when you're talking about the intangible of
11:41whether it's leadership, belief in the quarterback, gravitating toward the quarterback, rallying
11:47behind the quarterback, however, however you want to lay that out, right? Shador Sanders
11:52is going to win that in a landslide. Well, you think about what people are saying about
11:55him being in the building and Deshaun. That's all optics. That really, really means nothing.
11:59But it kind of does in terms of like how people view it. It made me, you know what? I
12:03think
12:04it means something to Todd Munkin. And perception is reality. So whether it doesn't. So the idea
12:08that Deshaun's not working hard or Dylan's not working hard, that's not true. But him being
12:12here is a good thing. And that's as a quarterback, it's a different. It's the hardest position
12:16in sports, right? And that's why, because a lot of times it's just getting people on board
12:20with you. And he does a really nice job of that. So yeah, I would say he has the advantage
12:24if it comes down to that.
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