00:00I guess we can start with the conversation of the day.
00:04And this is where I want to admit that this is me in my more paranoid state.
00:11I say this because I'm trying to trust in Todd here.
00:15Okay?
00:15You know me.
00:16I'm a big trust in Todd guy.
00:19We're putting it on a t-shirt.
00:20When people think about Nick Wilson, they think about trust in Todd.
00:26I had to switch to my other hand for that last tee there.
00:30That's what people think about when they think about me.
00:33But I also understand that the other parts of this Browns organization,
00:37Jimmy Haslam and Andrew Barry, do things that sometimes make this feel like a think tank
00:44and less about a winning football team.
00:46Now that I've done that entire belabored point,
00:51Deshaun has had two good practices in eight games.
00:54What in the hell are we doing?
00:56Seriously.
00:57Like, I get it.
00:58He's the $35 million man or whatever he's making has already made this year.
01:03I understand that you might want to leverage Deshaun to make sure that Shador is on point
01:10in this quarterback every single way.
01:13I get it.
01:14But the Kool-Aid drinking on Deshaun Watson in this town is absolutely insane.
01:20And it's not the fans, guys.
01:22I got to call my media brethren out on this.
01:26It is insane.
01:27The God, let's just say the truth here.
01:31Shador has looked like the better quarterback, whether he looked great or not,
01:34he has looked like the better quarterback in 80% of the practices that we've all been able to see.
01:41And so am I happy that Deshaun is here and actually putting up a fight after completely laying down on
01:46the mat
01:46for the first six or seven practices, six, seven?
01:49Yes, I am.
01:50But this idea that the tide has turned.
01:53Guys, Shador was the better quarterback yesterday.
01:56So two days ago, Deshaun was the best quarterback.
02:00And it wasn't close.
02:01And it came against the ones.
02:02And that should have some meaning.
02:04But the push that has happened in two days, when yesterday, again, Deshaun looked good enough,
02:10Shador still looked like the better quarterback.
02:13And I'm just watching this happen in real time.
02:15And it's like, you know, we don't all have to just say whatever the Browns want us to say, right?
02:20But that's what's happening here, Nick.
02:21We have free will.
02:22We've got the ability to say what we actually think instead of what somebody over there wants us to say
02:29and think.
02:31That's where we're at, though.
02:32That's where we're at.
02:34Like, I definitely think this new Deshaun Watson push that we've felt over these last 48 hours,
02:40we know where it's coming from.
02:42They're priming us.
02:43They're getting us ready.
02:44They're acclimating us.
02:46It's like the science experiment that if you put a frog in water and then boil the water slowly over
02:53time,
02:53the frog won't jump out of the water.
02:55Whereas if the water's already boiling and you put the frog in it, it'll jump right out.
03:00We're the frog in the water right now.
03:02And the water is starting to fizz.
03:04I want to say that I want to leave open some room here where the Browns continue to say,
03:09Deshaun, Deshaun, Deshaun.
03:12To push.
03:13Or whether it's just to guide Shador where they want him to be.
03:17And if that's happening, to me, that's Todd Munkin.
03:20But I also have to leave open the door here that this whole thing, the last, I don't know,
03:27three months has been a rig.
03:29Right?
03:30It's been a whole thing.
03:31Because when I hear, again, two palpably good practices, meaning every other one was unplayable,
03:40but two good enough practices that Deshaun Watson has somehow reclaimed his spot as a frontrunner
03:47when it's not as if Shador himself has gone into the tank like Deshaun was for, again,
03:5280% of the practices, 90% of the practices we've watched, it makes me open up this other door.
03:58And that other door is very tinfoil hat.
04:01I get it.
04:02But I'm starting to wonder, did the Browns broker an agreement with Deshaun Watson?
04:08Hey, Deshaun, we love you so much.
04:11We know this contract hasn't gone.
04:12Maybe a mea culpa for Jimmy Haslam saying, you know, hey, this thing didn't work out.
04:17Or for whatever reason.
04:19Maybe it's about David Mulligetta.
04:20Maybe it's about doing a solid for an agent.
04:23Because I know the Browns like to do those things.
04:24Did the Browns broker an agreement at some point this offseason with Deshaun Watson
04:29to let Deshaun start the first few weeks?
04:32Because after watching the way the media has turned all of this,
04:36and the Browns themselves have turned all this in the last two days,
04:39all of a sudden that doesn't feel as crazy conspiracy theory
04:43as maybe it would have been if I had floated it two days ago.
04:46Absolutely it hasn't.
04:48Because these last two days we've watched some in the national media
04:52admit to confirmation bias.
04:54That they believed, based on what they heard,
04:57it is reporting, based on what they heard going into the spring,
05:01that Watson was the frontrunner.
05:03Now that he's had two good practices of 10,
05:07like you said, 20% of the practices have been good,
05:10it's confirming what the Browns wanted to see from Deshaun
05:14going into this competition.
05:15It's been my fear this entire time.
05:18I don't want to see Deshaun start.
05:20I don't understand what the Browns gained from it.
05:23But I definitely have my tinfoil hat on too, Nick.
05:25It's impossible not to with this organization anymore.
05:28Because what they say and what they do,
05:30most of the time are completely different.
05:322-1-6-4-7-4-00-9-2.
05:35At Nick Wilson says, at Nick Padone, 12 on Twitter.
05:38Of course, social media reactions on X, powered by Shive and Jewelers.
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05:43We've got Miles Simmons, pro football talk, NFL writer, Cleveland's very own,
05:47coming up at 2.40 today.
05:49Quick hits at 3.40.
05:50We've got Dave Biddle, editor of Buck Nuts and host of On the Money on 97.1 The Fan
05:56in Columbus at 4.40.
05:58A little Ohio State preview coming your way in the lead at 5.
06:03I will be out.
06:04The show will be done today at 6 because of the Lake Erie Crusher's night.
06:08I'll be out a little bit before that.
06:09But we've got Nick Padone in studio here.
06:112-1-6-4-7-4-00-9-2.
06:14At Nick Wilson says, at Nick Padone, 12.
06:17Did the Browns broker an agreement to let Deshaun start the first few weeks of this season?
06:23Because the more this kind of nonsensical push continues,
06:27and we've got some compelling evidence here,
06:30it's starting to feel like maybe this isn't the one-for-one the Browns have talked about.
06:34So it might seem conspiracy theory when I ask,
06:38did the Browns broker an agreement to let Deshaun Watson start the first few weeks of the season?
06:43And credit to my co-host for the day, Nick Padone,
06:48dug this up from back at OTAs when Deshaun Watson spoke
06:53with Ashley Bastock asking the question about where he was in his career
06:59and his confidence to get back out on the field.
07:01You said that you didn't have any doubts in your mind that you worried about never playing again,
07:07but I guess were there any doubts about if you would get another chance in Cleveland
07:11to be the starting quarterback?
07:12No. And that's just from internal conversations.
07:17So that certainly makes it seem like there were some internal conversations
07:21that might have played into what we're talking about right now.
07:24I don't think that that piece of sound got enough run when Deshaun Watson said it
07:30because it was a moment I was standing out there and you could hear the rain.
07:33The rain started falling down in Berea when Watson was in the tent there.
07:37It was one of those moments where he said it in the press conference setting, Nick,
07:41and everybody that was standing there kind of looked at each other a little bit.
07:45Did he really just say that he never doubted that he would have an opportunity
07:49to play for the Browns again based off internal conversations that he had?
07:53Now, obviously, the dream follow-up could have been,
07:57well, what did those internal conversations consist of?
08:00And he certainly would have found a way to dance around that.
08:03Probably would have said something like words.
08:05But it is definitely weird that Deshaun Watson floated out loud that he had some sort of internal conversation
08:13with somebody that led him to believe that there would be an opportunity for him to start for this football
08:19team
08:19at some point again.
08:20And that was said all the way back in June.
08:22Now, it could very easily have been them assuring Deshaun you're going to have a chance to compete for this
08:28job.
08:29And again, I want to say I don't want to completely, oh, I'm not going to allege they're doing anything
08:35here.
08:35I'm simply asking the question because as much as I want to believe in the era of the coaches get
08:43to see things
08:44you don't get to see, and that is a fair thing.
08:47They're in meetings that we're not in.
08:50At the same point, I've seen for the last five years, this regime, minus Todd Munkin,
08:58use pretty lame narratives as a reason to do whatever the hell they want and then fall flat on their
09:05face.
09:05Like specific to last year when Dylan Gabriel looked absolutely lost in camp
09:12and they kept telling everyone how far ahead of everyone else he was and what a great job he was
09:18doing.
09:18And then when they gifted him the job in week five, right, and then he fell flat on his face
09:24and basically ended the season right then after getting the preferential treatment in the offseason.
09:30So a lot of this is mistrust of Andrew Barry and Jimmy Haslam.
09:36And my hope is that Todd Munkin is who I think he is, which is a no-nonsense football guy
09:43that knows,
09:44hey, if I rig this thing for one quarterback, no matter who it is,
09:48I'm going to be sabotaging myself in the locker room, not just this year but beyond.
09:53But I cannot help, if you were one of those people who said, hey, don't put it on Kevin,
09:58Kevin doesn't have the power to make these decisions, I think it's fair to then look at this and go,
10:04all right, there are similar games being played with Todd Munkin.
10:07I trust in Todd, but that trust is not unilateral.
10:10So I know you trust in Todd.
10:12Is your trust in Todd going to be fractured if he comes out, say, next week
10:17and says Deshaun Watson is the starting quarterback against the Jacksonville Jaguars
10:23and we're going to use the rest of camp here in the preseason to get Deshaun Watson,
10:27our starting quarterback, up and ready to go?
10:28Because I think that's a very real possibility.
10:32Like, I definitely think you and Jonathan both stand to potentially be really disappointed
10:38when Todd makes this decision.
10:39So I will, I'm going to do my best to not just do the immediate thing,
10:44which is bleep you, you're wrong, this was rigged.
10:47I'm going to do my best to do that.
10:49But it's going to be, I will confess, it's going to be hard when we're hearing
10:52from the starting quarterback two months ago saying that he had some sort of
10:56internal conversation that it's going to be hard to not go full tinfoil hat.
11:01Well, it's harder to deny what I've seen with my own eyes and what Jonathan has seen
11:06and what fans have seen.
11:08And I think that's the frustration.
11:10When, when, and I always think it's a really cute thing when media guys go,
11:14well, like the coaches don't know more than you.
11:18No, no, no.
11:19They know more X's and O's than I do.
11:22But when it comes to what is obvious on the field,
11:25any idiot can see what I saw and what anybody else has seen.
11:28And more so than that, I am fluent in the ways of Team BS after covering this specific Browns organization
11:36because they are, and I actually say this as a credit, they do a tremendous job disseminating
11:43their narratives that are pro-Browns narratives to the media.
11:47And because of the COVID error restrictions, which every NFL team, not just the Browns, have used to leverage and
11:55push out the local media as much as they can and minimize those relationships,
12:00they have the kind of authoritarian power over the press that they didn't, or specifically the beat that they didn't
12:07seven years ago.
12:09So, and by the way, it is their prerogative to do so.
12:12I'm not alleging any sort of malfeasance here.
12:15But at the same point, it's like, I'm not going to trust anyone to that extent.
12:20Not in the era of everybody's, everybody's great, everybody's PR friendly here.
12:26No.
12:26No.
12:27That trust is earned.
12:29And everybody outside of Todd Munkin does not have that trust for me.
12:32Now, here's the difference, because I think you posed a great point here.
12:35My difference when it comes to the trust in Todd thing, if Shador wins the starting job, I will have
12:43to have baked in patience with Shador
12:46on things like procedural penalties, on things like turnovers, because he's a young quarterback.
12:51And for the first time in his natural born life as a pro, he's receiving adequate coaching.
12:57So I'm going to have to sit here and go, hey, Shador didn't play well.
13:02All right.
13:02Did you win?
13:03Did you lose?
13:03Because that'll also impact how we say, but all right, let's give that context.
13:07Did we see growth with the Sean?
13:09If you named to Sean, the starter week, one, your ass better win.
13:12And he better look good.
13:14Because if, if, if one of those two things doesn't happen, we go right back to the beginning of, and
13:20this guy won the job.
13:21Why?
13:22Right.
13:22Well, well, and the, the whole, this guy won the job.
13:25Why thing is going to ring true for a number of reasons.
13:28I, the thing that I can't shake out of my head, Nick, is that the Browns is an organization.
13:33Forget about our trust in Todd.
13:35Park AB for just a second.
13:37I will never forget about my trust in Todd.
13:37As an organization, they're obsessed with data.
13:40They love analytics.
13:41What?
13:42They talk about it a ton.
13:43More so than any other time.
13:45More, more so than any other team.
13:47There is so much data.
13:49An overwhelming amount of data.
13:51That says the Sean Watson is not a good quarterback anymore.
13:54Hasn't been a good quarterback since before the global pandemic.
13:57There is not much data that says a quarterback in a situation similar to his.
14:02That has sustained all of the injuries that the Sean has.
14:05And has missed two full NFL seasons.
14:09Will ever return to what that form once was.
14:13So how could you have an organization that's so obsessed with data, so obsessed with math, when the math here
14:22isn't checking out at all?
14:25There is literally no quarterback in the history of the sport that went six years from being an elite, all
14:34pro level, that's really what the Sean was in Houston, to being laughably bad, which is what he was in
14:392024 when he was healthy before the Achilles injury, to now in 2026 we're just supposed to expect that he
14:46is the one mathematical outlier.
14:48I have to believe that there are some nerds in that building that that just doesn't check out with.
14:54All right, that's nerd on nerd crime because you're one of the biggest nerds I know.
14:57But two, and that's fine, I'm also a nerd, so that's nerd on nerd on nerd crime.
15:00No offense taken out of me, I know I am.
15:03But I don't even need to go back to last year or the year before or the year after.
15:07I can go off this.
15:08It started in Shador needs to work on his processing time, right?
15:14His processing skills aren't up to snuff.
15:17Well, all of a sudden, the processing skills I'm hearing are lacking in camp have been to Sean Watson.
15:23Oh, that's interesting.
15:25Okay.
15:25All right, so does that mean Shador doesn't have processing?
15:29Oh, no, no, no, now it's cadence.
15:32Now it's this.
15:33Now it's that.
15:33Now it's running the offense.
15:35And I'm not here to tell you that that is 100% wrong.
15:40Shador is a second-year quarterback playing in a pro-style offense, getting adequate coaching at the NFL level for
15:46the first time.
15:47So I have no doubt that there are some things he needs to work on as a young quarterback.
15:50How do you get those done, by the way?
15:52I don't know, playing time and practice reps.
15:55But I guess my thing is, and this is where it's not about Todd Munkett.
15:58This is where the trust in Todd can, you know, lift above and rise and shine, right?
16:05I have heard, oh, procedural.
16:08I have heard cadence.
16:09I have heard these buzzwords to describe situations before.
16:14And in the end, it's just incredibly vague stuff that coaches say that it's basically you're not seeing what I'm
16:21seeing and trust me on it.
16:23And that's where it's like, again, I'm, I'm, I'm in some ways.
16:26I'm not able to trust Todd as fully as I would like to, because I've been damaged by organizational BS
16:33speak for so many years.
16:35I think Todd tells the truth.
16:37But isn't that two different organizations telling you the same thing?
16:41Because Stefanski and Tommy Reese were saying some of these same red flags about Shador when it came to, you
16:46know, getting in and out of the huddle.
16:48I was like, well, I hated that.
16:49I was like, what does that mean?
16:50Is he a football imbecile?
16:52He had no problem getting in and out of the huddle at Colorado.
16:55And we're hearing the same things this off season about the whiteboard work and the film and the classroom, the
17:00stuff we don't see.
17:01I hated all that stuff last year, too.
17:03But now it is starting to get a little fascinating.
17:05Like, we're hearing this with two completely different regimes.
17:07Yeah, I think, and again, this is where I want to leave it open to the idea that one coaching
17:12staff was being disingenuous with that because they never gave the kid a chance.
17:17And that's where I am trying to leave it open to trust in Todd.
17:20But it's as simple as if Shador's a starter week one, there's going to be some patient baked in in
17:26a developmental year.
17:27If Deshaun starts, he's a veteran.
17:29I will have no patience.
17:30Seven and ten will be the absolute floor if you're going to put, whether it's by hook or by crook,
17:35whether this is a legitimate quarterback competition win for Deshaun or not, I don't care.
17:40I don't have that same tolerance.
17:42He's the veteran.
17:43He's supposed to be the better player.
17:44His ass better be winning as soon as week one.
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