- 7 weeks ago
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00:00You know what, Joe, I've got to let you know a little secret.
00:02We all three of us know each other about 40 years.
00:06Heyman is such a weasel.
00:08He actually updates me on the numbers when I'm on the show
00:12because he knows that I'm a sick human being and I'm ultra competitive.
00:16And he tells me, oh, Russo just beat you out,
00:18knowing that I want to come back on and beat out Russo.
00:21This is what this guy does behind the scenes.
00:23John, our friend, one of our most frequent guests,
00:26I think our most frequent guest by total number of times is appearing,
00:30is our pal Michael Kay.
00:32He joins us again this week, especially to talk to the Yankees.
00:35Always fun to talk to Michael, most frequent,
00:37one of the two most popular, along with the Mad Dogs.
00:40So great to have him back starting the new year.
00:44It's great to have you back.
00:45We missed you.
00:46I did a couple without you.
00:48It wasn't the same.
00:50And we're going to be off to a great start this year talking Yankees with him.
00:54And certainly there's a lot to talk about with the Mets.
00:56Yeah, we're going to talk about the two New York teams
00:59because we have a lot of catching up to do.
01:01We'll try to put in focus what they've done,
01:03what they still might do.
01:04We'll play hit and error at the end.
01:06If you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Hayden.
01:13John, first of all, I want to open by saying thank you.
01:16You carried the show for a bunch of weeks while I wasn't around.
01:19So I really appreciate that.
01:21You had great guests.
01:22You did great show.
01:23I listened to all your shows.
01:26I would argue that they were probably better than what you were.
01:30But thanks so much for doing it.
01:32Not true.
01:32My pleasure.
01:33It's really given us a lot of runway.
01:36Of course, we haven't discussed this in this forum on especially the Mets and Yankees.
01:41Why don't we open with the Mets?
01:42It's a point you made as we were coming on.
01:44They just have a lot to do still at this date.
01:48I think that David Stearns would probably argue that they have a lot to do.
01:54I think he's counting on better defense.
01:58That Brett Baby is good and will get better.
02:00That Francisco Alvarez was really the second half Francisco Alvarez.
02:03That they won't have quite the pitching injury stuff they had.
02:09They'll have McLean all year.
02:11I think they've got a lot to do.
02:13I think they will do multiple things in the next several weeks.
02:18John, take it wherever you want on that team.
02:20Yeah, I mean, they were an 83-win team.
02:22And they were a lot worse than that over the last four months.
02:25And they've lost Diaz and Alonso.
02:26And certainly in the short term, those are big negatives.
02:29So I think they still have a lot of work to do.
02:32Fortunately for them, there are a ton of great players still available.
02:36Mostly pitchers, which is really what they need most.
02:39I'm not sure how they're going to be able to replace Alonso.
02:41I mean, it's good that they're trying for Bellinger.
02:43I mean, I still think he'll probably go back to the Yankees where he's a great fit.
02:4729 home runs there.
02:49And, you know, just felt like a Yankee.
02:52But, you know, you never know in free agency.
02:54I don't think most people expected Soto to go to the Mets when they had somewhat similar offers.
03:00So you never know.
03:01But it feels like they need to make it up in the pitching.
03:04And there are a ton of great pitchers left, right?
03:06I mean, we've got maybe Scoobles left.
03:09You've got certainly Peralta likely could go somewhere.
03:15Cabrera.
03:16There are a ton of players left on free agency, particularly the pitchers.
03:20Suarez, Gallen, Valdez, if they want to go there.
03:25I mean, Valdez is an elite pitcher.
03:28There are a ton of guys out there.
03:30They have the wherewithal to do it.
03:32There aren't a ton of teams trying still, it seems.
03:35And they still have the prospects to make the trades.
03:38I mean, you know, I'm writing a column that's just appeared on the Post website and in the Post tomorrow about what they should do.
03:46Where do you think they should go?
03:47I mean, you know, to me, they can build a good pitching staff.
03:51I'm not sure they're going to be able to replicate the lineup they had because there's no Alonzo left to get.
03:56Yeah, I'm a big Ranger Suarez fan, John.
04:00I know he could pitch against the best teams.
04:03I know he could pitch in the NL East.
04:04I think I think that the Mets are loathe, especially to give like I would just wonder out of guys like Suarez and Valdez and guys who are still left who we think are good.
04:16Are they still out there because they cannot find that five, six, seven year market that maybe they were hoping for and they need to do something maybe not exactly like Emai did, but like, you know, shorter with the ability to opt out multiple years, like three years.
04:33And you could opt out all the years.
04:35And would the Mets be allergic to that?
04:37Because if the pitcher is good, they opt out and they also lose a draft pick, right?
04:40Like Suarez and Valdez are both qualified offer guys.
04:43I think at this point, the Mets have built up their farm system enough to not worry about the second pick in the 2027 draft and to just go ahead and put the best team they think they could on the field next year, even if it cost them that.
04:58And so if I think if they like Valdez or they like Suarez and I personally like Suarez, I would just do that if they were willing to do because clearly Stearns has shown with that kind of pitcher, he'll do three at maybe a high AV.
05:11Can you do three at a high AV with one of those guys or will those guys, John, you always know the market great, certainly better than me.
05:18Do you think those guys still end up with the five, six, seven year deal or that they're going to have to do something that's more imaginative, shorter with a high AV?
05:28Yeah, I mean, there are, like I said, there are a lot of good pitchers left, but there's enough need, in my opinion, that Valdez certainly should.
05:37But I mean, look at his track record. I know that we both kind of like Suarez, but looking at Valdez's track record, you know, I know the comps for them were Freed and Burns, right?
05:48And they got eight in six years. So, I mean, I think Valdez, I think he still gets six. I never thought Suarez would get more than five, probably.
05:57But I still think he does. I mean, Suarez is a 1-4-6 ERA in the postseason, which is better than everybody except for Rivera and Strasburg.
06:07So, I mean, I can't imagine he's going to struggle. It feels like, you know, there's a number of stars left.
06:14I feel like the pitchers will do OK. I think Bregman will do well.
06:17Well, it is a mystery what's going on with Tucker and Bichette, who are terrific, terrific.
06:23And Bichette's only 27 years old. Tucker also only 28 years old.
06:28These are great players, and it is interesting to see this go on.
06:32But, of course, we did see Machado, and we did see Harper, and we have seen guys sign even in February.
06:39So, but it is interesting. I do think those two pitchers will get the length.
06:44And I'm with you. I like Suarez. I think there are other good pitchers left.
06:48I like Giolito, who doesn't have the qualifying offer. I like Gallon, a New Jersey guy.
06:53I think you like him as well.
06:54I do.
06:55They got a lot of potentials there, and the trades, they're going to be tough.
06:59I mean, look, the Yankees have been trying to get Cabrera.
07:02I think the Marlins, and I know names are out there. People have talked about Hess and Dillon.
07:07I think they asked for Lombard, you know, the Miami guy, you know, why not, right?
07:11I mean, the price of pitching is huge. And if you can get a guy who's not going to get a six-year deal,
07:17he's got multiple years to go under control, you've got to ask for a ton.
07:21We saw what Shane Boz got, right? So it's not easy to make these trades.
07:25And that's why, ultimately, I think they're going to have to sign one of these free agents, whether that's,
07:30and to me, Valdez's might be too many years for their taste.
07:33I don't know, but whether it's Valdez, Suarez, or Gallon, Giolito, whomever,
07:38they're going to have to go there, I think.
07:39Yeah, I'm a big Gallon guy, John. I think he's, you know, could be a high-end innings eater.
07:46Like, if you told me the Mets, I would do double. I would figure out how to sign Gallon,
07:50and I would trade for, like, Peralta and feel like that gives them some maybe maneuverability
07:56to trade a starting pitcher or two for a bat.
07:59And they have prospects, right? And they have prospects to make these kind of trades, right?
08:02I mean, they know Peralta from Milwaukee. He's not going to be what Skubal's going to be.
08:06I mean, Skubal's going to cost. I don't think McLean, but I probably did.
08:11Can I ask this on Skubal? So, like, to me, I'm talking to you from MLB Network.
08:16I just did the hot stove show, and we talked about Skubal because, you know,
08:20we'll find out no later than Thursday at least what he's asking for in arbitration.
08:25They'll either settle or we'll have actual numbers for him.
08:28And he's like, him or Randy Rosarino are going to get the most money in this cycle.
08:31I would think it's going to be Skubal. And the guy said, like, what do you think? And I'm like,
08:36I'm generally a follow-the-money guy. And the Tigers have built this offseason. They've added,
08:40you know, Kenley Jansen, Finnegan, Drew Anderson. They qualified Torres and kept them.
08:47Flaherty opted in and they kept them. Like, they're behaving like a team that's trying to win
08:52in 2026. You know, and whenever I've talked to anyone in or around them or that's talked to
08:57them, they're going to try to win and they'll reassess in July if they're not. I kind of think,
09:03and again, like, who knows, you know, your phone could blow up in 30 seconds and suddenly the team
09:08that wasn't going to do something for Skubal is. But I think the Tigers have behaved like a team
09:13trying to win, which to me means keeping Skubal, which means, like, that's why the price on Cabrera is
09:20going to be huge or the price on Peralta, even though he's a free agent at the end of the 2026
09:25season. Let me, like, flip it around. Let me just say, if Shane Boz got what he got,
09:31they could get a ton for Skubal. And I know it's rival guys who probably want to see him traded and
09:35want to get a chance at him. They are listening to offers. I don't think they, you know, other than
09:42kind of signal, you know, generally what it would take, I don't think they've really countered and
09:48said, we'll do it for exactly this, but they are listening. And, you know, it's a tough,
09:52it's a tough call, right? I mean, the Angels held on to Otani twice, both mistakes. Boston traded
09:59bets with a year ago. That was an even bigger mistake probably, right? So it's, it's difficult
10:05to decide, but I mean, I'm with you in terms of the Tigers and likely they keep them and they made
10:12the playoffs twice. The last two years with them, they were 500 team when he didn't pitch. They were
10:16won two thirds of the games when he did pitch. And it was certainly a big hit if, if, and, and if,
10:22if they did trade him, but I, you know, I'm not ruling it out at this point. I mean, you know,
10:27they're, they are listening. You know, John, the one, one other thing I would offer on the Mets,
10:31and then we'll flip over to the Yankees a little bit is I, of both New York teams, to me, the mistake
10:36of the off season so far was Edwin Diaz. Like to me, if the Dodgers and you were both offering three
10:42years and you have Steve Cohn on your side, don't get outbid for the guy you want. And as
10:46proven, he could play in your place and then give three years of pretty good money to Devin
10:50Williams, who I'm not quite sure about, like, I, like, I don't want to play the underlying numbers
10:55game. Uh, like, Oh, the underlying numbers, he was better. Like he actually played on the field
11:00last year. It wasn't good enough. Uh, and now, and I know that, that, that Stearns knows him well
11:05from Milwaukee, bring him in. I wouldn't do that. The reason I bring it up is if Kyle Tucker is really
11:10going to do a short contract, uh, with a high AAV and we're only talking about the Dodgers,
11:18shouldn't the Mets say, well, this is the advantage of having Steve Cohn. Why should it be the Dodgers?
11:24Like if you're, if this guy's really willing to do three or four years with opt-outs at a big number,
11:29why shouldn't now, now you can tell me the allure of the Dodgers means the Mets would have to spend
11:35so much more to, to do it. And, or did the Mets become an unappealing place, which I've heard a
11:41little bit at for what, how things went last year on and off the field that the premium wouldn't just
11:47be X plus it would be X plus plus to do something like that. But to me, if it's like, Hey, you just
11:52have to outbid the Dodgers on the short deal with a high AAV, then go do that. Right. I think one of the
11:59negatives to doing these, you know, analytics, smart things right now, the team does not look to most
12:04people like a great team and they have made themselves probably less appealing to free
12:10agents. And, you know, this may be an issue with Bellinger, with Tucker, potentially to me,
12:15Bellinger is a better, Tucker's the better player. He's the number one player on the market.
12:19There's no question about that. Bichette is an absolutely fantastic player, Bregman, and he's
12:24going to, Bregman's going to do great because he has that Schwarber clubhouse thing going. Right.
12:28But to me, Tucker doesn't really fit the Mets. He is left-handed as is Bellinger. He is a right
12:36fielder. Certainly he could play left field. But to me, Bellinger is the guy who fits because he can
12:43play center right now. Mets have a question at center. He can play first right now. The Mets have
12:47a question at first and he's going to be, I don't know if he's going to be half the money, but he's
12:51certainly going to be less, less money. And even with Steve Cohen, you got to, I mean, you can't just
12:56go crazy and spend hundreds of millions of dollars, uh, willy nilly. So, I mean, I think
13:02Tucker is the number one free agent. I think he's the best player. You certainly have to consider it
13:06to me. Uh, Bellinger is the better fit for the Mets. Yeah, I, I agree with you. And I, and I happen
13:12to love Bellinger as a player. Uh, I'm not sure I feel the same way about Tucker. Uh, you know,
13:18who I know is obviously highly skilled. There's a Jacoby Ellsbury vibe. I feel off of Tucker that I
13:24don't, that I don't love. Uh, he's a better player than, and a more accomplished player than,
13:29uh, Ellsbury was, but, uh, I, there's been some injuries the last few years. I don't know what
13:35his passion is for the game long-term, et cetera. Uh, he's a great player. Like, like, and if you
13:41could get him on a short deal, that makes it all the better. It makes it easier if he's playing left
13:45and so does playing right to either play a kid, Benj in center or play the defender, Taylor in center
13:51and, and do it that way. You ended it. You ended it. You ended it. But I'll, I'll, I'll agree with
13:55what you said previously. If, if you, you're, they're not going to be able to get him on a
13:59short deal. I don't, I don't see that. I agree with you. They'll go to the Dodgers, right? And
14:02the Dodgers, I like him enough. Yes. I agree with you, John. Yeah, I agree with you. What let's,
14:08uh, before we kind of kill too much time here, let's flip over to the Yankees. Uh, our guest is going
14:14to be Michael Cain a little bit, where I'm certainly going to talk a lot about the Yankees since
14:17he's the lead broadcaster. Yes. But, uh, their off season so far has been putting the band back
14:24together. They qualified offered and kept Grisham, Paul Blackburn, Ryan Yarbrough, Ahmad Rosario,
14:29uh, those players they had last year. And they'd like the, the key to their off season is if they
14:35could bring back one more, they love Cody Bellinger. Uh, they're clearly have made multiple offers now
14:41to try to keep him. Uh, is this DJ LeMayu again, where they dance all off season, but they really know
14:47they're going to end up back with each other or can he go someplace else? Well, I think he can go
14:54somewhere else. I do think the Dodgers do like him. Uh, I understand they let him go at one point,
14:59but I think they admire the way he bounced back and really remade himself as a player. Uh, and
15:04certainly the Dodgers are a very attractive team and he enjoyed being there. It was an MVP there at
15:09one point, an interesting career. Uh, I do think he'll have options. I do think the Yankees have got to be
15:14considered the favorite. It worked so well last year. Uh, he's only said he wants to play for a
15:18winner, which at this point, if you look at the teams on paper, I think long-term the Mets are
15:23going to be a winner due to number of factors. I think Stearns is very smart. Obviously Cohn wants
15:28to win. He's got money, but if you look at the teams right now, it's hard to sell yourself and he
15:33doesn't have, you know, he's not, it's not his mother's choice. He doesn't have nine uncles running
15:37it. I don't see it being a Soto situation. I, you know, we never know what happens in free agency,
15:42but I think ultimately they get them back. That said, and I think they're in pretty good
15:46position, right? I think that their team looks pretty good. They come in with four good pitchers.
15:51Schlittler looked fantastic. Fried's one of the best pitchers in the game. Heal and Warren are solid.
15:56And, uh, I think, you know, they've got guys coming. Uh, I, I still think you got to do something
16:01and not just for the fans, you got to do something to bulk up the pitching a bit. I mean,
16:06their, their bullpen was not good last year. It wasn't good. And then they've lost two very
16:10talented guys in Williams and Weaver. So, uh, I still think even if they get Bellinger,
16:16they need to do something. And it's the, there's diminishing options in terms of the bullpen.
16:21There are a few guys left who are pretty good. And maybe you mentioned Tyler, uh, Trevor McGill,
16:27right? His brother, right. It's potentially available. Somebody like that they could trade
16:31for, but I think they got to do something beyond even Bellinger. Yeah, I'm with you. I, and I look,
16:37John, I recognize there could be too many guests at the end on July 1st or June 1st with, you know,
16:45if they get Rodon and Cole back, uh, and especially if they, they can get Schmidt back in the second
16:50half is they hope these guys all had elbow procedures of some sort or another, and they
16:55think they're going to get them all back, but you're the Yankees. I just wouldn't focus on that.
16:59Luis Heal's hurt every year. Uh, Fridge, Littler, and, uh, Warren all pitched more innings than they
17:05ever have in their professional lives last year. Uh, I, I would make, I would get another starter
17:10and then worry about like, you know, the, the thing, if you think you have too much starting
17:13pitching, you don't like even the Dodgers all last year, kind of like struggled until the end.
17:19Right. And I'm, by the way, I think this is what the, I think the Yankees are following the Dodger
17:23path. I think Garrett Cole could probably pitch in April. He could probably pitch in early May.
17:28The Yankees want to play games through October. So they're going to slow play him like the,
17:32the Dodgers did with Otani at the beginning of last year. Like Otani, they were thinking
17:38about using Otani in the world series the year before out of the bullpen in 2024 against the
17:43Yankees. So clearly he could have pitched at the beginning of the 2025 season. They slow played it
17:48because they wanted, they knew they were good enough to get to the post season and wanted it.
17:52They slow played Snell out of his injury. They slow played Glasnow out of his injury. I think the
17:57Yankees are going to slow play Rodon and they're going to slow play Cole because those are
18:00especially Cole, but Rodon's a really good pitcher. They want them available for the
18:05games that mean the most if they get there, but you got to get there. And I would get one
18:10more pitcher to feel better about getting there. Yeah. One other reason, because you highlighted
18:15the other reason I thought you were on it early and I think it's an important theme. The AL East
18:21is bulking up. And so you've got to make sure you get in to the, to the darn party. And I think that
18:28they, they need one more pitcher starter. Yeah. To me, uh, you know, I know the odds makers may say
18:34something different, but to me, uh, Toronto looks like the best team on paper to add cease, uh, to
18:41add, uh, Akimoto, uh, to add, uh, pawns, uh, all these guys that they have added, uh, they added, uh,
18:49Tyler Rogers from the Mets, who was really good last year with the Mets and in San Francisco. Uh, to me,
18:54Toronto's the favorite, uh, and, uh, you know, they, they beat up on the Yankees pretty good last
19:00year, uh, in the regular season and in, and in the post season. So, uh, I, I think the Yankees
19:06still have work to do. They're in better shape than the Mets. They, they come in 11 more wins,
19:11right? And they did knock off the Red Sox in the playoffs and they've got guys coming back, uh,
19:16from injury. Uh, they're in much better shape, but they still need to do some things.
19:23Uh, no, about that, John, no, why don't, why don't we, uh, wrap up, uh, this segment by let's,
19:29let's, let's play out the things, which is let's give them Bellinger. Let's assume that sometime in
19:37January, I'm going to assume, cause I have such faith in you, you break that Cody Bellinger is
19:42re-signing with the, you like the pressure, John, uh, re-signing with the Yankees.
19:48Give me the, like, what would be the absolute other move you would make?
19:55Yeah. I mean, I think we talked about the guys that we like, right? Uh, I think Suarez is probably
20:01unlikely for the Yankees at this point. Uh, you know, they're probably not going for the big fly
20:07in terms of the starting pitching. Uh, but we like a gallon. I like Giolito. Uh, I liked some of
20:14these guys. Uh, I, I think they can add a pitcher. Uh, they might make the trade for Cabrera. I mean,
20:21look better a couple of days ago than it does as we're doing this. We'll see, maybe, maybe it'll
20:25be traded to the Yankees, but, uh, it doesn't seem as we're doing this, that it's particularly close,
20:31uh, but they are working on it. And I have faith that they will do something more and not bring back
20:36the very team that they had. And if they are concerned about the payroll, uh, and they do
20:42seem to be, uh, maybe it will be, uh, via trade and they do have guys that they can trade. So whether
20:48Cabrera, Gore, Peralta, whomever, uh, school ball might be a stretch for them. Uh, the Mets have
20:55better, uh, a longer list of prospects, I think, uh, you never know. Uh, but I do believe they'll come
21:02up with a pitcher. One of those guys that we talked about. Yeah. I kind of feel like they're
21:07going to end up with a starter and a bullpen guy before it's all said and done, but that might be
21:12a numbers game because also if you're, you're fully stocked in the rotation and you have Yarborough
21:17and Blackburn in your bullpen besides your traditional bullpen guys, I don't know how much
21:21you could keep adding, but I think they need a lefty reliever. I don't think that, uh, Tim Hill is
21:28enough. Uh, and I know the Yankee theory is always our righties get out lefties, go talk to a lefty
21:34hitter about the righty who could get out a lefty. It's the lefty who could get out a lefty that they
21:38really worry about. Uh, and so I think they'll do that. Uh, look, we're going to go much deeper
21:43on the Yankees and other stuff because, uh, joining us is our pal and frequent guest, uh,
21:49Mike K. If you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
21:53John and I are so thrilled to have our most frequent guest, uh, Michael K and our friends,
22:04of course, the host of the Michael K show, uh, the lead broadcaster for the Yankees, uh, one of the
22:10most important voices in New York. Uh, Mike, thanks as always for joining us on the show.
22:15Do I get some name recognition, you know, since I'm the most frequent guest
22:19the show with John Heyman, Joel Sherman, and Michael K. I love it. Yeah. Let's do that.
22:25You gave me top billing for the first time. Yes. Once I put K in, I'm willing to be the sandwich.
22:31I'm willing to be in the middle. Like, uh, uh, Mike, uh, I mentioned you as I, I've been thinking
22:38about what is like the first question I want to ask Michael K. And it's a little bit about the fact
22:42that you are one of the most important voices in New York and you hear the fans all the time,
22:46uh, on the subject of baseball in specific. And I would think the Yankees notably. Um,
22:53and I have a question are, are we like the public writ large, are we stupid or we, do we just play
23:00stupid on like the internet and TV? Like, is there a value to being stupid? In other words,
23:05like we're midway through the movie. Like, we don't know what's happening at the end of
23:09Shoreshank Redemption. What's actually is the quest at the end. And people are like, David Stearns is an
23:14idiot. Uh, Brian Cashman is an idiot as if these guys who are accomplished executives are just,
23:20I'm not here. They might have bad winters, but we don't even know what the full winter is yet.
23:25Spring training still a month away. The season is more than two months away. Can we at least not
23:30wait to find out if Andy friends gets out of Shoreshank? Well, it's funny, Joel, because I mean,
23:37it becomes a broader question about society. Are we what, um, social media indicates that we are,
23:43or is that just a subsection of people with Cheeto dust on their fingers? If we are that,
23:49then we've got some issues. And I, I think it leans toward maybe that we are that. I think that
23:53in this day and age, people have a megaphone and they can say whatever comes into their mind. I'm
23:58sure people felt like this about George Weiss of the Yankees back in the fifties and, and Ralph
24:03Howe back in the seventies. I don't like what he's doing. How could he have traded this guy? Listen,
24:08it is what it is. Yankee fans are furious right now. They keep saying they're not doing anything.
24:14And I keep saying on the radio, they don't have to do anything yet. Nobody's done anything. 20 of
24:19the top 50 free agents haven't signed the top four or five haven't signed. So why are you putting this
24:25artificial deadline? Cause you want to get excited. Um, we'll see. I think it's more fair to judge
24:31that when we get the spring training in Tampa and Port St. Lucie, what the teams are. And then you
24:36could say whether or not they failed, you know, an interesting stat. I did the hot stove show with
24:41Jack Curry yesterday. You know, everybody's saying the Yankees have been passed by the Blue Jays
24:46and passed by the Orioles, Red Sox, Tampa Bay making moves. Do you know that the Yankees are
24:51still the second favorite team in major league baseball, according to all the odds to win the
24:55world series? The Dodgers are first, the Yankees are second, and the Yankees are projected to win 93.5
25:01games. So, I mean, that's what the guys who run the team operate on. How many wins do we need to
25:07get into the playoffs? I want to say, Mike, first of all, you're not only our most frequent guest,
25:13you are our most popular guest looking at the numbers. You and Mandog are tied at the top. So
25:18we better have a good start here this new year, because I, I know you'd like to be number one,
25:21not, not one A. So. Yeah, I like Christopher, but I mean, I've got to win. Yeah, I know you. Do I know
25:28you? Yeah, you're like me, only, only on, you know, doubled. Yeah, I saw your hot stove show. You
25:36got, you and Jack did a terrific job and had a nice interview with Aaron Boone as well. I think that
25:4193.5 projection kind of counts the fact that we expect the Yankees to do something more,
25:47right? We don't, we don't expect them to do nothing. What do, what are you expecting them
25:52to do? Do you, do you think it's Bellinger and that's it? Are they going to get a pitcher? What
25:56are they going to do? Well, you know, I, I, I believe, and this is just personal. I have not
26:00spoke to Brian Castro and anybody within the Yankee organization. I believe that they're trying to get
26:05Bellinger. I believe that there's a, there's a time and a year frame that they would tap out. I think,
26:10I think that's really true. I think they'd like to get a pitcher, but they're not desperate about it.
26:15You know, they felt, listen, Yarbrough gave us eight starts last year. The way it plays out
26:20before Rodon comes back on, on May 1st, that would be maybe four starts that, that Yarbrough
26:27would have to give. Then you also have to factor in the fact that Garrett Cole is probably not going
26:32to get back till June 1st. And I was a little surprised by that because he had the brace surgery
26:36and that was in March. I thought he'd get back closer to the front of the year, but you know,
26:40he's an older pitcher and they want to make sure he's right. There's a lot of starts to fill.
26:43And another thing, and Dan Martin, Greg Joyce wrote it today in the post, the guys that are
26:49coming back, Max Freed and, and Cam Schlittler and Will Warren, they pitch like career high
26:55innings. So you got to watch out for them as well. It's a big, it's a big concern. I think when you
27:01put this team together, but I don't think they're going to empty their farm system to get a guy like
27:06Edward Cabrera. And if you're the Marlins, the guy's got three years left on this before he becomes a
27:10free agent, you're going to ask for a lot. Look what the Orioles paid when they picked up a pitcher.
27:16So I think the Yankees would be very content to go with, with Bellinger and, and then they'll run
27:23it back. So to speak, it's pretty much the same team. Yeah. Mike, I, I, I quite frankly would be
27:28surprised if they still don't do multiple things between now and the start of spring training.
27:34But, but let me, let me stop you for a second, Joel. I think that in a perfect world, they would,
27:40but don't you believe that the stated intent of how in a perfect world to be under 300,
27:46they can't do multiple things unless you trade salary off your roster. And the only guys you
27:51could do that with are McMahon and Chisholm. You can't trade Stanton. You can't trade Grisham.
27:56So how are they going to do that unless they go over 304? Yeah, I know, Mike, at the beginning of
28:02the off season, I was writing that their intent was to go under 300 million. And again, as part of
28:07that world, I, you know, like people were saying, that's crazy. I think that Hal often talks about
28:13going over under 300 and then goes over it because of the, the exerted pressures and the desire to kind
28:21of keep up with the Joneses and the Blue Jays and the Orioles and the Red Sox. So I expect it will go
28:25over. I would point out that I think that this was an off season. If we were sitting in those
28:29meetings with the Yankees, I wonder if they were saying this is going to be a slow moving market.
28:34There's nobody who's going to go early, who fits into our price range and needs. Let's see where
28:40the prices actually go. And the off season, it reminds me of Mike is, and again, this was when
28:46there was a stupid chorus. The Yankees are doing nothing. They all suck. How's cheap. Cashman's
28:51whatever was 2020, 21 DJ LeMay, who played the part of Cody Bellinger, the guy they wanted back and
28:57kind of wanted back. They signed them in the third week of July in the same week. They signed Corey
29:02Kluber and traded for Jamison Tyon. And that was, you know, deep into January and before spring
29:07training. I just, again, like I'm not here to defend that. They might botch all this and end up
29:13with no one, but we're just not to the end of the story yet. All right. I agree. And you know,
29:18you try to calm people down and I understand people are anxious. That's what being a fan is
29:22all about. And the Yankees have not won a world series since 2009. So they, they're really itchy
29:27to get it. And they're saying, well, last year's team wasn't good enough. Why are you running it
29:32back? But they had the most wins in the American league tied with the Blue Jays. The one problem
29:37they had was they didn't match up well with the Blue Jays and the Blue Jays slapped them around
29:41during the season and they slapped them around in the playoffs. So do you build a team just to beat
29:46one team? I'm not sure about that, but I do remember, I think you guys know this as well.
29:51In the week or two leading up to the postseason last year, I'd never seen in his eight years as
29:56manager, Aaron Boone more confident about a team that could win a championship. He thought that he
30:01had every part that he needed on the bench. He had maneuverability. He had moves that he could make.
30:06He loved that team, loved it. So although they didn't do what they needed to do, does he love it any
30:12less? Does Cashman love it any less? I don't know. You know, I'm going to take the opposite side of my
30:18esteemed co-host here and suggest, and we all like Hal, very nice guy. And I think he treats the
30:26employees well. There are a lot of positives about him. But to me, from our conference call,
30:32he's, to me, he's too focused on the bottom line. They haven't won since 2009. So I get that
30:39complaint from fans that they should be out there and be aggressive. And maybe they will be. There
30:46is time. And I do think they have a decent chance to bring Bellinger back. But again, that's running
30:51it back. And we all like Aaron Boone. He was wrong about this team being good enough. They gave up one
30:56run an inning in that series against Toronto. They weren't close to beating Toronto. They didn't beat
31:01Toronto in the regular season, and they didn't come close to beating them in the playoffs. So
31:05you know, what makes us think that this team is going to be good enough? And in my mind,
31:11you know, whether at $300 or $320, they can afford it. The team is up a thousand times from when he
31:18bought it. They paid $10 million. It's worth $10 billion. And I'm being conservative, right? The
31:23Lakers just sold for $10 billion plus. Aren't the Yankees more valuable? Why worry about, this is
31:29pennies we're talking about here, no?
31:30Well, I think it's very complicated. I'm loathe to call a guy who spends $300 million
31:36last year, even more, $320,000 cheap. Because the bottom line is, how much do you need to win?
31:42I think the Yankees have not allocated that money as well as they could. I mean, look at the money
31:47they were paying out last year to DJ LeMayu and Aaron Hicks and things like that. And you had $36
31:53million on that payroll that belonged to Cole, and he didn't throw one inning for them. So I think
31:59that $300 million of allocated the right way should be able to get it done. It's also complicated,
32:06John. And you're the one who asked the question on the Zoom call that made all the news. They don't
32:11own all the team. They have a lot of partners as well. I mean, there's a lot of people that they
32:16have to answer to. And he's not like Steve Cohen, and he's not like the Guggenheim partners. This is
32:22his business. This is what they do for a living. Steve Cohen has reached into his pocket and lost $350
32:27million over the last couple of years. That's out of his pocket. I don't think Hal can do that.
32:32So you got to make it. I don't think if he didn't want to win, here's the argument I always have.
32:38If he didn't want to win, and all he wanted to do was be competitive, then why not have a payroll of
32:43$250 and pocket another $70 million? Why not do it? But I think he desperately wants to win. But
32:49within reason, I think the market has gotten away from him. And I think another factor,
32:54or maybe you and Joel could speak to this, I think the upcoming labor unrest is looming. It
33:00really is. I think it's a factor. And he's on the committee, and Hal knows exactly what they're
33:06going to ask for, and the likelihood of it going down with a lockout. So maybe they don't want to
33:11put a lot of long-term contracts on the books. Because if there is a cap, what are you going to
33:17have to do? Are these guys going to be grandfathered in? Are you going to have to get rid of people?
33:20Again, I'm just spitballing here. But I think that does play a role.
33:24Yeah. Look, Mike, I think it's way over $70 million, because it's not just $70 million.
33:28They would save between $320 and $250. They spent $60 million in tax on the $320. And again,
33:36I'm not here to defend Hal Steinbrenner either. Spend more? I like covering stars. But they have
33:41certainly brought in a lot of stars. They always, until maybe this year with the Blue Jays,
33:45have the highest payroll in their division, which is job one to win it. And I would dare say every
33:51team has dead money on their books. The Mets certainly had a lot more than even the Yankees
33:57last year. So there's every one team has its Hicks and LeMayu. Nobody does this perfect if
34:03you're playing at the highest level. John mentioned before, Aaron Boone was on your show last night.
34:10Is he a Supreme Court justice? Or does he have to win a World Series this year, or at least get back
34:17there to keep his job, you think? Well, he's got two years left in his deal. So I guess if he's not
34:22successful this year, I guess they could let him go with a year left. The old saying is,
34:28Hal doesn't want to pay you for not working. But I will put it this way. Everybody goes,
34:32he hasn't been successful in his eight years. And that's under the rules of George Steinbrenner,
34:38where success was measured by winning a championship. Now, I actually brought that
34:43up to somebody with the Yankees. And they said, since George Steinbrenner passed, not any person
34:48in the front office has said that World Series or bust. We want to win a World Series, but nobody
34:53says it's a failure. The only ones who say it's a failure, Derek Jeter and Aaron Judge. Nobody from
34:59the front office. So if that was, in fact, the marching orders, World Series or bust, then Aaron Boone
35:04has not done his job and he would be let go, right? But if getting to the playoffs and having
35:09a chance to win every single year, if that's considered success, then he's been successful.
35:16He is also, you guys know this, you deal with him a lot. He's a terrific guy. He's a good face
35:21of the organization. He handles the media, for the most part, extremely well. Every now and then,
35:27he'll get snippy. And I can understand that. He talks two times a day, 162 days a year.
35:33And sometimes you're going to get tired of all the questions. He's the keeper of the Yankee
35:38information. And I think he goals it out the way the front office wants. So if the front office
35:44actually thinks success is being competitive, having a chance every year to win the World Series,
35:50then he's been successful. And again, I will tell you this, Joel, if they thought it was World Series
35:55or bust, he would have been fired three years ago. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. The face of
36:00the franchise is a huge part of that job. And he is outstanding at that. And I think that's
36:05certainly helped him. He's also won a lot of games in the regular season. So I get that. I'm
36:10going to get in the weeds a little bit here. Was it a mistake given that qualifying order
36:14offered Trent Grisham? And could that prevent Bellinger from really being brought back? I mean,
36:20to me, it looked to me, and I don't know. You hear whispers that they felt that he would decline
36:26it and they'd get the draft choice. It feels like he could, I mean, obviously they had both guys last
36:31year, but they've got Spencer Jones coming. They hope certainly that Dominguez will be able to play
36:35more games. I mean, was this a mistake to bring Grisham back at four times the salary that he made
36:42last year? I mean, he certainly had a lot of home runs, more home runs than any center fielder, but
36:46in the game, but I mean, he's a 218 career hitter. His defense has gone backward. Did they gamble and
36:53lose on this? Well, the day that they made the offer, John, I was on my radio show and I was
36:59absolutely aghast because I think he's a good player. And I said that once they offered him the
37:0522 million, he was going to take it. He's not dumb. He's a smart guy. He was not getting $22 million
37:11on the market and there might not be a 2027. So why worry about a multi-year contract? If the Yankees
37:18loved him so much, I almost guarantee you, John, that if they offered him $36 million for three
37:23years, he would have taken it. That would have been an average annual value of 12 million. You're
37:27paying Neiman Marcus prices for a guy who's not a Neiman Marcus player. And I thought it was a huge
37:34mistake. And if they are in fact committed to staying under 304, you just killed yourself. You
37:41took away so much maneuverability and it might cost you Bellinger again, if you're committed to staying
37:47under the 304. But if they loosen up on that, then, you know, I love when people go, well,
37:52there's no such thing as a bad one-year contract. I think that's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. I mean,
37:57if you gave him Mudd Rosario, who's a good player, $30 million for one year, that'd be a bad one-year
38:03contract. And I think that Grisham is a terrific power hitter for one year. And he was great last year.
38:11As you said, his metrics defensively went down, but he did have a hamstring issue. So you wonder if it was
38:16that, but once you tied into that 22 million, and here's the one thing that bothers me the most,
38:22they thought he was going to turn it down and they'd get a draft pick. Oh, wow. That draft pick
38:28that they would get between the first and second round is worth $22 million gamble. I don't see it.
38:34I just don't see it.
38:36Mike, as a multi-time payor in the system, it wasn't between the first and second round. It would
38:40have been between the fourth and fifth round.
38:42So that draft pick was worth even less than going for it. Mike, I'm going to share this
38:51with you and our listeners. I'm thinking about writing about it. So I'm pre-doing this. And I
38:55have not talked to anyone at the Yankees about this, but I wonder if strategically they're thinking
39:02at all that they did a form of free agency at the trade deadline. Bednar, Caballero, and the third
39:10baseman McMahon are all guys, and Duvall are all guys they are controlling from July forward, at
39:16least through this year. Plus, because of Rodon and especially Cole, they think they're getting
39:22them back, but like, what are they getting back? So is it possible that they feel like they did a lot
39:27of free agency in July in the trade market and they want to see what Rodon and Cole look like?
39:32Because if they're really good, then they'll do another form of free agency in July again
39:37with the trades. I don't hate the thought. And I think that, you know, Brian, who usually does
39:43great work at the trade deadline, I thought he was terrific last year. I think that team really
39:47improved exponentially. Their bullpen was a big question mark. Bednar straightened them out.
39:53And, you know, you also didn't even mention Bird, who was sent down to the modern leagues and we
39:56never saw him again. But they feel that he's straightened out and he could be in the bullpen
39:59again. So I think they like their bullpen. McMahon is a terrific defender. I don't know if he's
40:06going to hit enough, but the other guys really did straighten things out on the bench, made
40:10it more even handed where, you know, they could platoon and Boone had some moves to make.
40:14That's Rosario and Caballero. So yeah, maybe, maybe they're waiting to see. And, you know,
40:20John mentioned the fact that, you know, they, they'd given up a run in inning to the Blue Jays
40:25in that playoff series. And John, the one thing I would say, the reason they gave up a run
40:29in inning is because Freed and Rodon laid eggs. And I don't care how great a team is.
40:34If those two guys are going to lay eggs in the postseason, you're going to lose.
40:37You could have a $400 million payroll. And if your best pitchers are not going to pitch
40:41well in games that they have to win, that's going to, it's going to throw everything out
40:45of a, out of proportion. So make, you know, Billy beans like that, Joel, you know, that
40:50he wants to see what he has in the first third, second third, he evaluates more and then
40:54he makes a trade. So maybe the Yankees could be doing that.
40:57Yeah. I'm with you, Mike, on Cashman being a great deadline trader. I got one, I think it's
41:02pie in the sky, but I see the fans talking about it. And I think the Yankees have checked
41:06in if they don't get Bellinger. And of course, you know, we're talking about the concern about
41:11the bottom line here. You know, is Tucker, is that a real possibility? To me, you know,
41:18they already have the best right fielder in baseball. Now, Tucker could certainly play
41:23left field or I don't know. They've moved. I don't think they'd move judge to center,
41:27but certainly they could find room for him. I mean, what do you think the chances of this
41:31actually happening?
41:34Well, I think the only way you're going to get Tucker, John, and you know, when we hear
41:37about the Dodgers possibly getting Tucker, is it a high average annual value, a shorter
41:41term deal with opt-outs. So let's say you give them 135 million for three years with opt-outs.
41:48Do the Yankees want to add $45 million a year average annual value to their payroll? I think
41:55that's the big question. It is amazing to me, though. This guy was so highly thought of
42:00when he was at the Astros. And then he goes to the Cubs and an injury-plagued year where he still
42:04was a plus-war player. He doesn't have the same love on the market. And, you know, I wonder what
42:10his market is. I wonder what Bellinger's market is. I really do. I mean, until I think that Scott
42:16Boris is waiting to see what Tucker gets before he really moves on Bellinger. And I don't think
42:23Tucker's close to signing. I might be wrong. So if I'm the Yankees, I'd be interested in him.
42:28But I know the Yankees are concerned. They don't want to be too left-handed. We'll see.
42:32Mike, as a way of wrapping up, and we always appreciate you, really, truly appreciate you
42:36joining the show. Want to give some thoughts to where you think the Mets are, who've also
42:42have done a ton this offseason. They kept adding to their Yankee alumni picture with Luke Weaver
42:49and Devin Williams. But it hasn't been a lot more than that. And obviously, they let go of very
42:55popular longtime Mets, notably Pete Alonso. Where do you think they are as 2026 begins?
43:04Well, I mean, the Pete Alonso thing, it surprised me last year when they signed him. And I thought
43:08that was driven by Steve Cohen. And, you know, Mets fans right now look at David Stearns as the
43:14Antichrist. Well, I would look at it this way. He didn't get dumb in a couple of years. He's
43:20always been a really smart guy. And I think he has strategically planned this out. And obviously,
43:25you guys are in there. I'm not. I'm in there maybe six times a year when they play the Yankees.
43:29That clubhouse is broken. Now, I don't know if it was broken because of Nimmo or McNeil or
43:34Alonso, but he's trying to fix that clubhouse while fixing the team as well. The moves he's made
43:39so far curious. But as you said at the start of this, still not done. I think he's got some
43:45things up his sleeve. And, you know, this guy is such an analytically driven guy. He probably
43:51looks at it and goes, do I have a team that can win 88 games? And if I have a team that can win 88
43:57games, I'm going to go to the postseason. Maybe he's looking at it that way. The one thing that
44:02I don't understand about what he's doing, it'd be like if Steve Kerr told Steph Curry,
44:08listen, I'm going to play you, but you can't take a three anymore. So you're taking away the
44:13biggest weapon that Steph Curry has. The biggest weapon the Mets have is Steve Cohen's pocketbook.
44:19And it seems like David Stearns, well, let's not spend this. Let's not spend this.
44:23I think you should let him spend. If he could spend $400 million, he's willing to do it,
44:27then do it. And you can't be a Milwaukee GM in New York. He is not Mark Atanasio. Steve Cohen's
44:34one of the richest men in the world. Let him be Steve Cohen.
44:38You know, Mike, my suspicion is we're going to have a lot of New York baseball news over the
44:44next five, six weeks, certainly before the beginning of the season. We need to get you
44:48past Russo anyway on the all-time list. We understand the competitiveness of this. And
44:54I know how John wants to get Russo back on so badly anyway. So I'm going to get you back
44:58on at some point.
45:00Well, one minute though. I don't want like accumulated views. I need each show's views to beat
45:07Russo because I think I've been on more than Russo.
45:11I would think so, right?
45:13Yes, you have. Yeah, because I think Russo has just been on with me. And, you know, you're
45:19the most popular with both of us. So you're on with both of us. You are on more frequently.
45:25I think you should go cumulative because you're tough. You're like the Yankees with the high
45:34standards.
45:35You know what, Joe? I've got to let you know a little secret. And we all three of us know
45:40each other about 40 years. Heyman is such a weasel. He actually updates me on the numbers
45:47when I'm on the show because he knows that I'm a sick human being and I'm ultra competitive.
45:51And he tells me, oh, Russo just beat you out knowing that I want to come back on and
45:56beat out Russo. This is what this guy does behind the scenes.
45:59I'm just giving you updates. I know you're an analytics guy and you'd like to see the
46:03numbers. And when you're ahead, I still give you the numbers either way. But, you know,
46:08and I also thought I was complimenting you that you're in the top two. I thought, but
46:12you're right. I kind of knew that you don't like being second. You're not an Avis kind
46:17of guy and you want to be first.
46:18It is close. It is close. I'm going to review the numbers and get back to you just analytically
46:23speaking, not to spur you on to keep coming on. But we appreciate your attendance.
46:29You are also, I mean, you're saying I'm analytically. I mean, if David Stearns is analytic,
46:34I'm Gabe Paul. So let's relax with the analytics stuff.
46:38Maybe, Mike, maybe you're Aaron Boone. You're just constantly in the playoffs every year.
46:43You're just, you're good. It's hard to win a championship.
46:45You know what? Having a job for nine years is a good thing in this economy.
46:50Yeah. Mike, you're the best. We love having you on. Thanks so much.
46:54You got it, guys. Be good.
47:02John and I, of course, thank our friend Michael Kaye for joining us on the show.
47:05John, for error.
47:07I'm going to do a hit. I've complimented the Blue Jays a million times. I think,
47:10I think the Orioles deserve equal time. They've done a terrific job. Alonzo, obviously the headliner,
47:18the owner kind of compared it to the Frank Robinson trade exactly 60 years ago. Might not be quite
47:24that, but it's certainly something to celebrate in Baltimore for a small market team. And they look
47:30much better. They're still working. I think they'll get another starter. And they are a threat.
47:35But, I mean, you know, I just, I like to see teams trying, and that's a team that is trying.
47:42Yeah. Right-hand power is very hard to find in the sport, and not just Alonzo, to bring in Taylor
47:46Ward, who hit about 35 homers last year also. I think they brought in two of the top six right-hand
47:52homer hitters from last season to their otherwise pretty still young lineup. John, I'm going to give
47:58another team that's trying, and I think is more likely to lose 100 than even win 80, and they're
48:04not going to make the playoffs. But I like the off season of the White Sox. I think that if, you know,
48:11like if I'm running the White Sox and I've lost 324 games the last three years, which is tied for the
48:16third most in the history of the game, Zach Littell, like, is a fine major league pitcher. I don't think
48:22it moves the needle for you if you do that. I would go for guys who have real upside, and they
48:28might have the real downside. Now, Murakami, to some degree, fell into their lap because other teams
48:33were still, like, we're still talking about it on this show, right? Still talking about Bellinger and
48:38Tucker and Bichette, et cetera, and they weren't ready to do it in the 45-day window. There were trade
48:43stuff that was out there, Alonzo, Schwarber, stuff like that that did get done, and Murakami fell in the
48:49lap for two years. He might not be able to hit fastballs in the major leagues. There's questions
48:55about swing and miss in the zone. There's questions about velocity. But, like, if he hits, you have a
49:00version of Kyle Schwarber for two years, which means you either have it or could trade it for more chips.
49:06I think Anthony Kay is a good gamble coming back from Japan, where he pitched really, really well,
49:11especially last year of the two years he was there. There's Pedigree. He was a first-round draft choice.
49:15Uh, he added three miles per hour. He added a sinker that brought soft contact. I just think
49:21this is the way to go because either they succeed for you, you can trade them, or if worse comes to
49:27worse, it didn't break the bank. It didn't block any prospects, and they're both done in two years.
49:32I think it's the kind of thing a team in their situation should be doing.
49:35Yeah, good for the White Sox. I think they've done a good job. It'll be interesting to see whether
49:38that, I don't know, that'll trigger the Cubs, but the Cubs have been linked to everybody. They haven't
49:43done anything, and I think people in Chicago right now, they're kind of distracted by the Bears
49:48and excited by the Bears, but the Cubs are a good team that has a chance, and to me, they have the
49:56greatest disparity between revenue and payroll of any team, and again, they're not, haven't spent.
50:02I heard they would finish second for C, so they are trying somewhat, but, you know, if you don't
50:08really go, go for a guy, you'll often finish second or third, as Andrew Friedman once said,
50:13but they're in on Suarez, they're in on Gallen, they're in on Bichette, they're in on Bregman.
50:20I don't know, are they still in on Tucker? I don't think, I don't think Tucker's going back
50:24for whatever reason, didn't work there, and it's a lot of money for the Cubs. They don't spend that
50:28kind of money, but the White Sox did well enough that it's time the Cubs at least try to match them
50:35and spend as much as the White Sox. That's pretty sad. Yeah, pretty sad. On the pleasant side,
50:41we haven't let him get into free agency. Tommy Hogan, our producer, always so great. I know he
50:46was helping to sail the ship, especially when I was gone. Tommy, I always appreciate everything you
50:52do. I know John does as well. Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, please rate and
50:56review us. The New York Post YouTube page, give us a view. Certainly helps the show. If you like the
51:03show, there are ways to support it like that, please do. And we're getting close to spring
51:08training. We're off and running. I hope you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
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