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00:00:00It wasn't like, again, I walk away from this,
00:00:03and I'm not like, eh, just this one thing.
00:00:06It wasn't one thing.
00:00:07I don't think it was managing.
00:00:09The Blue Jays outplayed them for four games.
00:00:12They outplayed them all season, especially in their ballpark,
00:00:15which is why those games, first two games, were in Rogers Center.
00:00:18And I would find that very hard to swallow if I were the Yankees.
00:00:24Well, Yankees fans, season's over.
00:00:26Comes in in a disappointing fashion here at the end.
00:00:29Losing to the Blue Jays 3-1 in the American League Division Series.
00:00:32This is the Pinstripe Post.
00:00:33I'm Ryan Sampson.
00:00:34That's our guide, Joel Sherman.
00:00:36Look, we're here to talk about what the heck happened in this postseason,
00:00:40what happened in this series,
00:00:41and then maybe talk a little bit about here what's going to happen in the offseason.
00:00:46Before anything else, as always, Joel Sherman, how are you doing today, sir?
00:00:51Yeah, I mean, I don't mean to get too personal.
00:00:53One of my oldest friends' mothers passed away,
00:00:55and I just came back from a funeral.
00:00:57If the Yankees had won last night, I was taking luggage to a funeral
00:01:03that I was going to try to race to the airport and get there.
00:01:07Yeah.
00:01:08My back court mate on my first travel basketball team's mom passed away today.
00:01:14So, yeah, didn't mean to bring everyone down, but it's been a long day.
00:01:20But happy to be with you, Ryan, and offer some level of maybe therapy for you and Yankee fans,
00:01:26as I know what fans – it's one of the reasons I enjoy doing this with you, Ryan,
00:01:32is I know what fans invest in every way to do this.
00:01:40And, you know, like I enjoy the journey.
00:01:43I enjoy talking about it.
00:01:45It's good at this moment not to be a fad and see if I could offer something along the way here.
00:01:51No, look, we always appreciate you giving us your time, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.
00:01:55It's not easy ever, but also at the same time, we know that you helped give us, like,
00:02:01a really different perspective, I think, for what's going on with this team.
00:02:05And while we cover it every day and you cover it every day, it's just good to have this, like,
00:02:11I feel like this back and forth and, like, you know, give me the fan perspective
00:02:14and from you from the writer perspective of, like, hey, this is really what I see, you know,
00:02:18going on in the field and off the field as well.
00:02:20So, look, the Yankees – and this is my read, and I wanted to get your reaction to this.
00:02:27My feel was they were lucky that they didn't get swept by the Blue Jays.
00:02:29I mean, they absolutely got killed and their asses beat Games 1 and Game 2.
00:02:35They weren't even in those games.
00:02:36I don't really take much solace in scoring all those runs in Game 2.
00:02:39But if Aaron Judge doesn't hit one of the most insane home runs that I think I've ever seen in my life,
00:02:46which I still can't believe was a fair ball on a pitch that was well inside,
00:02:49that was 100 miles per hour almost, they get swept.
00:02:53And it just feels like, you know what, they are who we thought they were earlier this year
00:02:58in the midseason slump that they went through.
00:03:01And I understand they got right in September and they beat up on a lot of bad teams
00:03:05and that you get credit for that 100% and 94 wins.
00:03:08But they did fall short of winning the division and they did ultimately fall short of winning a championship
00:03:13and they get beat by another division rival in the playoffs.
00:03:18So I'm left wondering, was this team really not as a championship-level team
00:03:24as I had thought about here at the end?
00:03:27All interesting, Ryan, and there's a lot there.
00:03:30If I was going to try to dissect some of this.
00:03:34First of all, I do think they were very much in Game 1 and that when Judge strikes out
00:03:40and they don't score any runs in this, I think, what was it, the 6th inning or the 5th inning against Gosman,
00:03:47it's a 2-0 game.
00:03:49They get it to 2-1.
00:03:52And, you know, eventually the game gets away from them.
00:03:55But I thought they had a real shot to steal Game 1.
00:03:58If they had a beginning there, they didn't.
00:04:02Look, Ryan, there's so many different ways to look at this.
00:04:06I feel like this team is better than the team that won the American League Championship last year.
00:04:11I do.
00:04:12I think it's much better on defense.
00:04:14I think it's much more dangerous on the bases.
00:04:16It scored more runs and hit more homers than the team that had won Soto last year.
00:04:22And the pitching was as good as it was last year.
00:04:26Kind of, like, very similar.
00:04:27It got to 94 wins again.
00:04:29A 95th win would have really helped so that they started the series at home.
00:04:33That might have changed the 10 or some.
00:04:35On one hand, I could say, like, this series really pivots to me on Max Fried didn't pitch well.
00:04:42And that killed the Yankees in Game 2.
00:04:44And as I was thinking about it driving home last night,
00:04:48I think I'm going to include this allusion in my column that I'm working on right now
00:04:52as soon as we're done with this, is the Yankees, to me, lost all the buckets.
00:04:58They lost as great as Judge played, Vladimir Guerrero played better.
00:05:03So they lost the star game.
00:05:05I thought Cam Schlittler really honored himself last night.
00:05:09Without being able to strike people out, he still figured a way.
00:05:12If Chisholm makes the play, he gets through seven innings, two runs.
00:05:16And, like, I think that speaks well for him in the present and the future,
00:05:20that, like, he had to do it a completely different way than he did it against the Red Sox.
00:05:24And yet, in the young pitching phenom game,
00:05:28Trey Acevedo outdid Cam Schlittler.
00:05:31And more than anything, the supporting cast of the Blue Jays, notably Ernie Clement,
00:05:39Dalton Varshow, Alejandro Kirk, outplayed badly the Yankees' supporting cast.
00:05:45And then even include the Blue Jays won with a bullpen game,
00:05:49a total supporting cast game in Game 4.
00:05:53So the Blue Jays, kind of like 1-26 in all the buckets, won this.
00:06:00We were doing shows already last year, Ryan,
00:06:03is I thought the Yankees lost the World Series as much as the Dodgers won it.
00:06:07I just thought the Blue Jays won this series.
00:06:10And that there were ways, maybe, for the Yankees to get in it.
00:06:14If Judge has a big hit or Rice or Stanton in that Game 1 situation,
00:06:19if Freed pitches well in Game 2, if Chisholm doesn't.
00:06:22But it's all ifs now.
00:06:24Like, it was tough for them in this series.
00:06:27And the Blue Jays' offense, which is 1,000 nicks and nacks,
00:06:33they beat them at the home run game,
00:06:35and they beat them at the nick-em, nick-em, nick-em.
00:06:38You saw it even last night.
00:06:39Again, I give Schlittler credit.
00:06:41They were making every at-bat tough in that Schlittler stuck around.
00:06:44And partially also, Ryan, I know this is not the Yankee team
00:06:50that faltered in the midseason.
00:06:53I do think this – I thought the trade for McMahon was very helpful for them
00:06:57to become a better overall defensive team.
00:07:00I think they figured out the bullpen late,
00:07:02and it really did get better without ever being well above average
00:07:08in some of their other bullpens.
00:07:10Like, I just thought they were a better team than last year at the end.
00:07:13They got a cakewalk last year.
00:07:16The Royals had a losing record if you took away their 12-1
00:07:20against the White Sox, who lost 121 games.
00:07:23The Guardians didn't have any offense.
00:07:25They got a cakewalk to the Dodgers, and then the Dodgers stood up to them,
00:07:29and that's the commonality of the Aaron Judge
00:07:32and now more Aaron Boone era,
00:07:35which is if the other team stands up,
00:07:38the Yankees kind of wilt at this time of year.
00:07:42And I'm not exactly sure of why because I don't –
00:07:46like, again, there are some series where you and I in games during the year
00:07:50for the last two years where I'll go,
00:07:52you know, I think Boone messed up here.
00:07:54This just feels obvious to me.
00:07:56This didn't feel like a manager series.
00:07:59No.
00:07:59The star of the Yankees played as well as he could.
00:08:05The Blue Jays outplayed him,
00:08:07and I don't know what that means thinking about –
00:08:10and I'm thinking about it a lot because literally the next column I'm working on
00:08:13is what to do next.
00:08:15And I'm not sure what to say what to do next
00:08:19when I think the team is generally on the right track,
00:08:23which is – you know what's amazing, Ryan,
00:08:27about how quirky and quick our game could change
00:08:30is if Chisholm converts the double play,
00:08:35which of course he should,
00:08:36and the Yankees rallied to win 3-2,
00:08:39I think you could have made a case that the Yankees won
00:08:43because of their defense.
00:08:45Bellinger made a brilliant play.
00:08:47Yeah, he did.
00:08:47McMahon made a brilliant play.
00:08:49Like, there were – was really good –
00:08:51I thought Volpe made a couple of good plays early
00:08:53before all the strikeouts got in his head
00:08:55and he started to, like, fumble around with the ball a little bit late.
00:08:58And so, like, that was –
00:09:02I know the Buck Martinez thing took off,
00:09:04and the Yankees are imprinted with bad fundamental team.
00:09:08But they got so much better on defense as the season went along,
00:09:13and then it was interesting that a player I'm sure we're going to talk about
00:09:17who we've talked about a lot in Chisholm
00:09:19makes the key defensive mistake of their season
00:09:22to kind of, like, finish them off for sure.
00:09:25Because I'm not certain if that game doesn't stay 2-1
00:09:29that the Yankees don't win.
00:09:30Like, I think Jeff Hoffman is in a completely different situation
00:09:34trying to protect the one-run lead at Yankee Stadium
00:09:37than he was protecting a, you know, 3-, 4-, 5-run lead.
00:09:40So, I – yeah, I – the Blue Jays beat them.
00:09:45Yeah, they did.
00:09:47And so the question is, like,
00:09:49is there something internally wrong with the team?
00:09:53That's where I'm going to touch on.
00:09:54Is there a time where every time the other team stands up at this time of year
00:09:59and they fall down?
00:10:01Maybe.
00:10:02But, like, is that really the – maybe it's the manager.
00:10:05I'm not – I'm not here to argue it's not.
00:10:08Like, maybe it's the manager.
00:10:10Is it Judge?
00:10:11I don't know.
00:10:11Like, Judge seems like a tough-minder guy.
00:10:13I'm positive John Carlos Stanton, who didn't kind of get the average that his –
00:10:18the way he hit the ball this postseason, which was hard, should get.
00:10:21I know he's not mentally fragile.
00:10:23I don't – I don't know exactly how to apply it, and I can't –
00:10:29but I can't dismiss it.
00:10:31Yeah.
00:10:31Because they get eliminated in the same way all the time.
00:10:35All the time.
00:10:35It's the hitting not coming through for you in the postseason.
00:10:39And I do want to ask you – so this is where I think it might be an organizational issue.
00:10:43Maybe it's coming from Cashman and his philosophy with his analytics people
00:10:48and how they view the game and how to attack the game.
00:10:50Because I do think there were certain things that the Blue Jays were better at,
00:10:54obviously, fundamentally, at the plate, hitting the ball in terms of a lot of contact,
00:11:00making you pay on any ball that, you know, that was close to the zone.
00:11:04I do – I ask you and put an example, you know, for Vlad.
00:11:08He's up in the first inning.
00:11:10He's been killing you all series.
00:11:12There's a runner on second.
00:11:13You're up 0-2 in the count if you're Cam Schlitler.
00:11:15He thinks he's throwing a cutter outside.
00:11:18And Vlad loves that pitch.
00:11:21And he's going to go opposite way with it.
00:11:23So I guess my question is why are you calling that pitch in that situation 0-2
00:11:26when you know what Vlad's been doing to you
00:11:30and why are you even bothering pitching him with the base open?
00:11:32So, like, there's an organizational thing, I think, there
00:11:36because I think it's a philosophy of how they –
00:11:38Yeah, I don't know.
00:11:39Yeah, that feels like an organizational thing is, like –
00:11:42I mean, he threw a bad 0-2 pitch.
00:11:44Like, it should have been even another two inches outside to get the pitch.
00:11:49I mean, he did get to 0-2 on him.
00:11:51I'm thinking he's trying to establish –
00:11:53You know, imagine the tone of the place he's got him 0-2
00:11:56if he strikes out Vlad in the first.
00:11:58I hear you.
00:11:59Which is what I'm sure he's thinking.
00:12:01The Blue Jays –
00:12:02We're going to have a real reckoning this postseason
00:12:09if the Blue Jays and or Brewers get to the World Series, right?
00:12:14So just very quickly, Blue Jays' profile.
00:12:20Number one batting average.
00:12:22Number one for fewish strikeouts.
00:12:24Number one for defensive runs – for fielding runs saved.
00:12:28The Brewers, number two in batting average.
00:12:33Number five in fewish strikeouts.
00:12:35Number three in defensive runs –
00:12:37and again, fielding runs saved on baseball Savant.
00:12:40So, like, that's the profile of these two teams.
00:12:45And I think there's going to be some reckoning of it.
00:12:50And I think there is.
00:12:51I think the sport is moving towards more athleticism,
00:12:54more thought about defense.
00:12:56And, by the way, I think the Yankees moved in that direction
00:12:59in a strong way this year.
00:13:01It's hard to turn the Titanic completely around.
00:13:04But I thought that they moved more into that area this year
00:13:10to a positive outcome as the season went along.
00:13:15They really did become much sharper on defense.
00:13:17And, you know, Ryan, I dare say nobody in, like, mainstream job
00:13:24killed them for the way their technical play
00:13:26for a year and a half, two years more than I did.
00:13:29It got better.
00:13:31I don't know that their base running was heady,
00:13:33but it was threatening.
00:13:35Like, they – you know, Caballero was threatening.
00:13:38Jazz was threatening.
00:13:39They were a better – like, I'll always use a guy like Paul Goldschmidt.
00:13:43Paul Goldschmidt isn't fast, but if he should go first to third,
00:13:45he goes first to third.
00:13:46Ryan McMahon, if he should go first to third, goes first to third.
00:13:49Like, they were better at some things as the season went along this year.
00:13:54And so I know that it's going to be analytics and stuff like that,
00:13:59but the version of the team is that it's hard to shift it completely around.
00:14:04They strike out a lot.
00:14:06A lot.
00:14:07They strike out a lot at this time of year.
00:14:10Yep.
00:14:10And so the reckoning also becomes – I mean, do we want to do this now?
00:14:14Do we want to kind of project ahead a little bit,
00:14:16or do you want to stick with this before I do?
00:14:17I do.
00:14:17I want to stick with the series because – and this is the thing I would –
00:14:20Because I think part of the answer to your question to me is about the reckoning.
00:14:25Right.
00:14:25But let's hold off on it.
00:14:27Yeah, hold off on it for a second because –
00:14:28But I'm not running away from that.
00:14:30I think the game is moving towards a certain thing,
00:14:32but also the reality that the average fastball in this postseason is 96 miles per hour.
00:14:38The movement profiles have never been better.
00:14:40Like, there's going to be a lot of strikeouts.
00:14:43And I like – yeah, I have a feeling some of the other things I want to say
00:14:49are going to come up from some of your thoughts.
00:14:51So why don't you go ahead?
00:14:52Yeah, yeah.
00:14:52So what I wanted to ask too is that, look, I think Schneider and the Blue Jays
00:14:57put a good game plan together against this Yankees team
00:14:59in terms of their roster and the bullpen.
00:15:02And they loaded it up with all their lefties
00:15:04and decided to go against bringing the Barrios and the Scherzers,
00:15:07even if they weren't healthy.
00:15:07But they didn't carry those extra starting pitchers.
00:15:10They wanted more lefties.
00:15:11And the Yankees lineup and the rosters, as it's constructed,
00:15:14you want your lefties in the lineup because you have the short porch when you're home.
00:15:17But also at the same time, like, they have a lot of righties they're throwing at you.
00:15:20But when you get to the bullpen, you'll take your chances.
00:15:24It made a very easy lane, it feels like, for Schneider on the bottom of that order
00:15:28to go through when you have the Chisholm, Wells, and McMahon in that lineup
00:15:33with Volpe mixed up in there who was one of the worst players I've ever seen
00:15:37in a postseason series.
00:15:39It kills you.
00:15:40And I feel like that really hurt them big time here.
00:15:43And I wonder, you know, organizationally-wise, structure-wise, or even manager-wise,
00:15:48should he have been more careful with going with the righties,
00:15:52even if you're going righty-on-righty, because of how much they're going to be
00:15:55throwing the lefties in that lane?
00:15:57Yeah, I think that's tough.
00:15:58You know, Ryan, a lot of this is the Yankees' left-hand hitters did a ton of damage
00:16:03against lefty pitching this year.
00:16:05And, you know, it was not that long ago that everybody was screaming that Rice has
00:16:11to play instead of Goldschmidt.
00:16:12You know, Rice had a first round that was really good and an end of the season
00:16:16that was really good.
00:16:18Look, let me say something big picture, because, again, I think some of this is
00:16:24justifiable.
00:16:26I'm not—this is not a criticism, but it's nitpicky, because I think even you
00:16:30at the beginning of this said the Blue Jays destroyed them.
00:16:32They did.
00:16:33So I'm not sure that there's like a, hey, if there was a better 0-2 pitch
00:16:37or if they used Caballero here or stuff like that, like, I don't feel it was
00:16:41that, like, close where, like, one thing went away.
00:16:47I'm not alibying for the Yankees.
00:16:49I want to repeat that.
00:16:51I am not alibying for the Yankees.
00:16:53At some point during this rain, they needed to cash in a chip, right?
00:16:58And who they keep losing to, they now have been eliminated by three of the teams
00:17:03in their division four times in this period, twice by Boston, Tampa, Toronto.
00:17:07Three times by Houston, once by the Dodgers.
00:17:09That's this period.
00:17:11Again, when they get to that kind of team, they crumble, and it's on their
00:17:17permanent record, and this—they needed to cash one of these in.
00:17:22As random as it could be, like, one of these years, it's got to be your year.
00:17:26And by the way, this year, Boone said he had his best team going into this.
00:17:29You know, healthiest, most well-rounded, and I actually think that's probably right.
00:17:32But having said that, one of the touchstones that happens at this time of year is what
00:17:40would George Steinbrenner do?
00:17:42And I always caution people, from 1982 to 1994, for 13 seasons, the Yankees didn't make
00:17:49the playoffs, when George Steinbrenner was the owner.
00:17:51And he was Aaron Boone plus Brian Cashman times something despised in New York.
00:18:01Okay?
00:18:01Like, you're young.
00:18:03Most of the people who are probably watching this are young.
00:18:05He was hated.
00:18:07He was a guy who didn't know how to put a roster together.
00:18:09He needed to get suspended and go away so Stick Michael could build a championship team.
00:18:13So that's partially, like, a long period of time without a championship, without even
00:18:18making the playoffs with all the advantages the Yankees of that era had.
00:18:22But the alibi you were about to say here is the Yankees continue to make the playoffs,
00:18:27right?
00:18:27And they put together a 94-year.
00:18:28No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:18:29Okay.
00:18:30I'm not alibying, because I'm saying that, I'm just trying to find out how hard this is.
00:18:33Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:33Right?
00:18:34It's like, I know there's a lot of criticism.
00:18:37People, I'm not a means guy.
00:18:39Like, I don't look at things, like, somebody would have to send something to me.
00:18:42And I got some stuff about, like, Jeter and A-Rod beating up on the Yankees last night.
00:18:48And I get it.
00:18:48Like, A-Rod is, got some stuff.
00:18:51He didn't like how it ended with the Yankees.
00:18:53I'm sure he's no fan of Brian Cashman.
00:18:56It's good moments come out of the woodwork.
00:18:59Alex Rodriguez played on all great Yankee teams.
00:19:02They won one time while he was here.
00:19:04Jeter had a great beginning.
00:19:05His last 14 teams won championship in the last 14 years of Jeter's tenure with the Yankees.
00:19:13They're great players.
00:19:15Those were really spectacular teams.
00:19:18It is hard to cash the chip.
00:19:21It is hard.
00:19:22Look at these Phillies.
00:19:24I would say that this is a great error for the Phillies.
00:19:27If the Dodgers win one of the next two games, the Phillies get eliminated in the division series.
00:19:31It will be up to, like, five years of the Bryce Harper error where they haven't won.
00:19:36I do think that there is somewhat of a lack of appreciation for how hard it is to get to the finish line while saying, at some point, you must get to the finish line.
00:19:49And that when next season begins in April, Aaron Judge is 34, Cole is 35, Stanton is 36.
00:19:57Those are the people most of the face of this on-field product.
00:20:01And it's getting close to having used it all up without winning.
00:20:06I appreciate how hard it is to win, and I think there should be some better appreciation of it while also saying, at some point, you've got to cash in the chip.
00:20:17Like, this is – I think we – I used the term last week with you on the show, Ryan, which was there's fair and there's sports fair.
00:20:25Like, we wouldn't want to make your job just about, like, whatever sweep weeks is.
00:20:32Like, hey, Ryan had a bad sweep weeks.
00:20:33Fire his ass.
00:20:35Like, we'd want to look at your whole thing.
00:20:37Like, are you good at your job or not?
00:20:40In sports, it's like, well, you've got a three-game – a best of three.
00:20:43You better play well.
00:20:45Like, there is some bad taste on Max Fried's season.
00:20:48Now, he's probably going to finish fourth or fifth for the Cy Young.
00:20:50Like, this is just – it's not fair, but it's sports fair, right?
00:20:54Like, when you're the backup quarterback, you might not get a ton of chances.
00:20:58This is your drive, man.
00:21:00You've got to perform, and sports is different from life.
00:21:03So, I understand the passion of fans and how they look at it, but it is hard to win and get through these multiple rounds.
00:21:11But there is something that is, for me, undefinable that the Yankees do – that the Yankees lack.
00:21:20Is it a mental group thing?
00:21:26Is it a stylistic thing?
00:21:28Is it a couple of things?
00:21:29Because, to me, the commonality is what they – is not them as much as what they lose to every October, which is a better baseball team that stands up to them.
00:21:43Do you feel like the other teams that they're losing to – because this, to me, felt very 2018-ish, like the Red Sox when they lost in the ALDS.
00:21:50Like, the Red Sox were clearly the better team that year, and they dominated them in the playoffs just like the Toronto Blue Jays did this year.
00:21:58Do you get a sense that organizationally for the opposing team, they just see more in tune what they're doing in their plan of attack, where we know we have an approach at the plate.
00:22:07Like, we're going to waste a bunch of pitches on this guy, we're going to make this pitcher work, and we're going to get him out of the game early.
00:22:13Or we're going to – you know, our team approach in the bullpen, we're going to find that lefty lane, and we're going to attack it as quickly as possible.
00:22:18Like, it feels like sometimes with the Yankees – and maybe I'm wrong here, Joel, and you can tell me I'm wrong – it feels like they have their plan, and they're sticking to it no matter what.
00:22:28And the feel that you've highlighted so many times over the years with this group, it feels like they're lacking that still.
00:22:36And it happened again in this Blue Jays series where they felt like there was missed opportunities because we're just – we're so stuck in our ways.
00:22:44Yeah, Ryan, you know I feel that way writ large, like about the product the last couple of years.
00:22:50But I didn't feel that way about this series.
00:22:52Okay.
00:22:53I felt like – I felt like the Blue Jays outplayed them.
00:22:55Yeah.
00:22:55And, like, that makes the decisions look better, right?
00:22:59Like, you can just as easily bring in Mason Flewharty, and he can hang a breaking ball to Ben Rice.
00:23:05You know what I mean?
00:23:06It's like they outplayed them.
00:23:08And stylistically – and, again, this is about the reckoning.
00:23:13And you tell me when you want me to go.
00:23:15I'm ready to go when you are because it feels like the Blue Jays series, they just were beat, and they were never going to win this series pretty much.
00:23:21So part of the reason they were beat – and so this will highlight two things.
00:23:25Because I'm thinking a lot about with the Yankees moving forward.
00:23:28It feels to me like the Yankees need to re-sign Cody Bellinger.
00:23:32And one of the reasons they need to re-sign Cody Bellinger is he kind of – like, if you believe the paradigm of the game is shifting towards, like, guys who can defy strikeouts, have batting average, be good on defense, good on the base, et cetera.
00:23:46Like, you can't run away from Cody Bellinger.
00:23:48That is Cody Bellinger.
00:23:50He struck out a career-low percentage this year.
00:23:52I think it was about 13.7 percent while still hitting .280, while still hitting .29 homers, while still running the base as well, while still defending across the outfield in a first base well, while still hitting left on left as well as almost anyone in the history of the Yankees, right?
00:24:09And hitting in the clutch, almost 1,000 OPS with runners in scoring position.
00:24:13I know he's going to cost money.
00:24:15It's a real investment.
00:24:17I would keep in mind that after 26, LeMayu comes off the books.
00:24:21After 27, Stanton comes off the books.
00:24:23After 28, Cole and Rodon come off the books.
00:24:25And so the Yankees are rolling towards some more evergreen finances.
00:24:30And I think they have to find a way to keep this player.
00:24:34Because this player was a Blue Jay who played on their team, which was a guy who could do a little, like, not a little, a lot of everything.
00:24:43And I feel that's that.
00:24:45The other reckoning is an internal one.
00:24:48And it's funny, Ryan, because so much, so many of our preseason spring training shows were me saying, what do the Yankees have to do, young players have to do for them to be good?
00:25:03And I don't know that any of them, except for maybe Ben Rice, met some of the stuff that I was talking about.
00:25:09But to me, this offseason, the Yankees have to be as hard-ass as possible.
00:25:17If you're talking about a cultural thing and say, Ben Rice, whatever number of hours a day you put into baseball, whatever number it is for hitting, some of it has to be, as much has to be about first base work.
00:25:33You're probably going to be our first baseman next year.
00:25:35You cannot miss scoops by a foot and a half.
00:25:38You've got to get major league average at this.
00:25:41And Ben Rice, to your credit, who's a 12, like a 12, 13-round draft choice, and a guy who no one thought would catch, and like, why did the Yankees draft him?
00:25:50Like, this is a worker.
00:25:52Now you've got to put in the work at first base, because it's the obvious place for you to play and become major league average.
00:25:59I think Jason Dominguez is being, wants to, and is being pushed to play winter ball in the Dominican this year.
00:26:06Go play.
00:26:10Lots of innings in left, lots of innings in center.
00:26:12Of course, as of today, with Bellinger and Grisham free agents, there's no obvious center fielder.
00:26:17Jason Dominguez is a very good athlete.
00:26:20I thought he handled his, and everyone around the Yankees thought he handled his benching professionally.
00:26:26He kept going out.
00:26:27He became, I thought it was very interesting.
00:26:29He shadowed Ahmad Rosario, who's a very enthusiastic, serious player, late in this year.
00:26:38When Rosario would go out on the field early, Dominguez would go out on the field early.
00:26:42Dominguez would do infield drills with Rosario to work on, I asked the Yankees outfield coach, Luis Rojas, to work on, Rosario told him,
00:26:52it will help you in the outfield to kind of play that ball cleanly, because it's coming quicker at you now.
00:26:58And so I gave him credit.
00:27:00He didn't sit in the room.
00:27:01He was out there working.
00:27:03So he needs to go play winter ball and get lots of reps in the outfield and get to Major League Average.
00:27:10And, you know, like, is Major League, because, again, he's going to get a runway.
00:27:14If he doesn't get traded this offseason, he'll get the runway to prove, can you be a 2020 guy who's at least Major League Average in the outfield?
00:27:21That's an asset, like in today's game, because he's another guy who I think would limit strikeouts.
00:27:28If he were in the order, he's got a good hitting guy.
00:27:31So that is defense.
00:27:34On offense, Anthony Volpe and Austin Wells.
00:27:39Let's start with Wells, because that's the one that's not quite the brush fire that the Volpe one is.
00:27:44Austin Wells' profile coming into the sport, into the majors, was as an offense-first catcher.
00:27:52It turns out he's a very, very good catcher.
00:27:55His offense has come down.
00:27:58I had more belief when he had a terrible postseason last year that he was tired, and that explained it first full year of why the offense was down.
00:28:11I am less a believer today about it, but he needs to be able to get to where his offensive profile isn't just homers and strikeouts.
00:28:28He was a good hitting prospect.
00:28:31It's funny.
00:28:32We used to say the same thing about Gary Sanchez.
00:28:35He was a good hitting prospect with power.
00:28:37Austin Wells was a good hitting prospect with power.
00:28:41He needs to find a swing that produces good hitting with the appreciation that good tough hitting is going to play better in October,
00:28:52and that his home stadium is going to bring the homers anyway,
00:28:56and that he's a smart kid who will learn to pick counts to try to pull and use his power.
00:29:02And that brings us to Volpe.
00:29:03Oh, boy.
00:29:04Who could not have finished this worse and opened up all the doors again.
00:29:11There needs to be a coming to the heavens moment with Anthony Volpe and the Yankees.
00:29:18One of which is it's 2023 again, and you got to come prove you're the shortstop.
00:29:25Like, tell him today, we love you.
00:29:29You have the cleanest road to shortstop.
00:29:32But we are perfectly comfortable playing Jose Caballero a lot,
00:29:39and if Oswaldo Cabrera comes back and gets healthy, playing him against some righty pitching,
00:29:44playing him out there, and you have options, we'll send you to the minor leagues.
00:29:48This is philosophically where I don't agree with the cookie-cutter, pull-it-in-the-air thing.
00:29:58That is where the most batting average is and the most runs.
00:30:01I get it.
00:30:02But not everyone should do it.
00:30:06And Anthony Volpe striking out in the high 20% in the playoffs much more than that
00:30:11should now be deemed unacceptable.
00:30:15It's removing one of the elements of his game, which is his legs.
00:30:20He must return to the guy he was as an amateur and even early in the minor leagues,
00:30:27which is a whole field hitter where the major league batting average this year was 245.
00:30:36Anthony Volpe hit 250.
00:30:40Hit 250 because he got to 19 homers.
00:30:43He would be a better hitter at 12 with some more pop, I'm sorry, with more batting average,
00:30:51with more threat on the bases, with fewer strikeouts, with the ability to move a runner.
00:30:56He is five foot whatever.
00:31:00Maybe Dustin Pedroia historically and Jose Altuve historically could be that size
00:31:06and be pull-oriented and make it work.
00:31:11One had the Crawford boxes.
00:31:12The other had the green monster.
00:31:15Volpe has neither.
00:31:16He has a short right field porch, which he can get to.
00:31:20And to me, the addiction to him has to go away.
00:31:27And the tough talk of what we want you to be and what you need to be is a pesk, more of a pesk, more of a pesk.
00:31:42You need some more Ernie Clement in your game.
00:31:46You need to be a tough out.
00:31:47With two strikes, it can't be surrender.
00:31:51He is an automatic out at two strikes.
00:31:54He must not be that.
00:31:58He is not a good enough player otherwise to justify that offensive profile.
00:32:03It is unacceptable.
00:32:06And maybe at some point next year they get George Lombard.
00:32:10That feels more 2027 to me.
00:32:13But shortstop is very hard to find.
00:32:17I don't think you'll do it easily in the marketplace.
00:32:20It's why I'm saying internally Caballero, Cabrera maybe.
00:32:24You know, Oswaldo Cabrera was part of the Yankee postseason.
00:32:28He was on the field every day moving around great after that terrible traumatic leg injury.
00:32:32That combination has to be better than what Volpe gave in total this year, which was unacceptable because when it's bad, it's not bad.
00:32:44It's unplayable.
00:32:45And he must reach a point where he is a valuable player every day because he is consistent on defense and a, at minimum, a pesk on offense.
00:33:00I don't understand trying to hit 20 homers to be that bad an overall offensive player.
00:33:09He'd be better off.
00:33:10I said 12.
00:33:11He'd be better off with eight, but a better offensive player.
00:33:15However, he is not a threat in these situations.
00:33:20And I just think it's three years of it.
00:33:25He's still a relatively young player.
00:33:26He still generally has a profile that looks something like the first three years of Dansby Swanson's career, who went on to have a very good career.
00:33:35So there is a U-turn here for him.
00:33:38But to me, Wells and Volpe on offense and Dominguez and Rice on defense is a moment where the organization isn't a, hey, let's everybody sit and have a party and let's have Danish with the coffee.
00:33:51Those four players, since Hal Steinbrenner isn't going to have Steve Cohn's payroll, he's going to have a nice big payroll, but it's not going to be unlimited.
00:34:01So the Yankees need their young players to continue to grow and be better.
00:34:07And to me, this is the tough love moment.
00:34:12This moment to have the exit interviews with your players and tell them we're going to be monitoring it all offseason.
00:34:21We're going to sit wherever Ben Rice is spending the offseason.
00:34:24We're going to show up once every few weeks.
00:34:25How are you doing on defense?
00:34:27Luis Rojas was a long time involved with the team that I think Dominguez might play with down there.
00:34:37Luis Rojas needs to empower him.
00:34:40Be on this guy down there.
00:34:42He's got to play lots and lots of innings in the outfield.
00:34:46And Wells and Volpe, you got to decide this is not the offensive profile that was drafted.
00:34:52This was not the offensive profile that was projected for these two players.
00:34:58And when you talk about the long lineup that the Blue Jays had, if Wells and Volpe are the players they were projected to be, the Yankee lineup would be longer.
00:35:09It might.
00:35:10The Yankees could.
00:35:11I'm not saying don't hit homers because homers are the most valuable thing you could do on offense.
00:35:16But the Yankees had 30 more than the Dodgers who were the runner up.
00:35:20You could hit a few less and still be a homer hitting team to be a better offensive team for these games that matter.
00:35:29We're looking for the commonality.
00:35:31The commonality is their lineup gets easy to pitch to at this time of year.
00:35:36You must determine now, as you're eliminated, that you will not be seduced into chasing every long fly ball.
00:35:46You're the Yankees.
00:35:48You're going to have a lot of power hitters in your lineup.
00:35:50You will hit a lot of homers.
00:35:51You must sacrifice some of it for guys whose profiles are being destroyed by going for it.
00:36:00But that has to change.
00:36:03And the tough love starts exit interview forward and who shows up in spring training and who sticks with it all year.
00:36:11And the clock on Anthony Volpe should be 2023 again, man.
00:36:16You better come.
00:36:17You beat out Peraza in 2023.
00:36:19You better become prepared to win this job.
00:36:23I just, it was a great, that's a lot.
00:36:28First off, I would say, I think Austin Wells does a really nice job defensively, like you said.
00:36:36I'm very aggravated when you're swinging first pitch last night in a situation.
00:36:41And I just hope he has the cerebral part of the game that you had talked about so much with him and his profile as well, offensively.
00:36:48Where, hey, have an approach.
00:36:50Work batters.
00:36:51Work that, like, have that be a part of your game.
00:36:54Don't just be, like you said, a homerun hitter.
00:36:56And then with Volpe, I just, you know how I feel about him.
00:36:59I don't think he's an MLB player.
00:37:01I don't.
00:37:01I don't see it.
00:37:02Haven't seen it.
00:37:03I think it's, it is what it is at this point.
00:37:06I wonder if he's a second baseman.
00:37:08I don't even want him at second base, Joel, because I don't think.
00:37:11Well, this player, because offense has to be part of who he is.
00:37:15You know, I just think if he doesn't rework this swing, where if you could get the ball to the outer edge, he has no shot.
00:37:28Like, I've seen enough little spurts of him using right field, and then he goes right back to that other thing where he's big.
00:37:41And I'm sure part of that is who knows who whispers into his ears, how many people that is.
00:37:47But overall, as a philosophy of the sport and a philosophy of the Yankees, the philosophy is get your pitch, don't miss it, put it in the air to the pull side.
00:38:01That is their philosophy.
00:38:03I think it is a terrific casino baseball philosophy, over 162 games, because a lot of those games are Tuesday night against the White Sox in June.
00:38:17But year after year, when you don't have a long lineup, and you're going strikeout, strikeout, strikeout, and they're not competitive, and there's easy innings,
00:38:28I would reconsider what is the exchange?
00:38:31Do not, this is so easy to misinterpret.
00:38:36You must hit home runs.
00:38:38You must.
00:38:39But you have that in Stanton and Judge already.
00:38:42But, like, it's good to get it throughout your lineup, whatever.
00:38:46But, they hit 30 more than anybody.
00:38:51So in other words, if they hit 50 less homers and finish fourth in the major leagues in homers with 220,
00:38:58and the exchange was they were a better, tougher, pesky offensive team that profiled to don't just play casino baseball,
00:39:09which works all year, to take your ace swing in every situation, because if you do that enough,
00:39:15you'll hit enough three-run homers over the course of 162 games to win 90 blah, blah, blah.
00:39:20We do this every year.
00:39:21You will do it.
00:39:23The Yankees are incredibly talented.
00:39:25If I had a bet, I'll bet over 89 and a half that they get to 90 next year.
00:39:31Let's go.
00:39:32Because that philosophy will do it.
00:39:34But if you're wondering why I think they keep running into the wall and falling down,
00:39:40this is as much core tenant to it as anything.
00:39:46And it's a tough thing to pull away from because you know that job won more than anything else is to make sure you get in.
00:39:54Look what happened to the Mets this year, like where you feel with some level of arrogance all year.
00:39:59Well, we're going to get in, and then we'll do our thing.
00:40:02So the Yankees know this philosophy will get them in.
00:40:07I think at this point, there should be some appreciation from the people in charge that it might get you in,
00:40:16but it's hard to win a lot of rounds unless you're going to get a cakewalk,
00:40:20like the below 500 against everyone who's not the White Sox Royals and the can't hit it all guardians.
00:40:26Like, you get that kind of cakewalk.
00:40:29The Yankees would have gotten that cakewalk.
00:40:30Like, you'll get through.
00:40:31But when the other team shows up with a pitching plan, you crumble because I think you don't have enough places in the lineup to make it tough over and over.
00:40:48You do in June because then there's a lot of bad pitching.
00:40:52And when the eighth guy in your lineup has 20 homers, you go, oh, look at us.
00:40:55We've got 20 homers out of that.
00:40:56Again, Anthony Volpe would be better with 10 homers and a 265 batting average and a 20% strikeout rate
00:41:06where you felt like you have to make a pitch.
00:41:10A good pitcher has to make a pitch to get him out.
00:41:13It is too easy.
00:41:16It is too easy too often against Austin Wells.
00:41:20And that is not the first round picks that were made on them.
00:41:24We're about offense first.
00:41:27And the players they are are not that.
00:41:32And I I appreciate how appreciate how hard it is to catch in the major leagues now to play shortstop in the major leagues.
00:41:39Now, the Yankees need more from those players as good offensive players and not just an attempt to freak show the ball out of the ballpark.
00:41:49Well said.
00:41:50I think there's two things there like you highlighted the approach.
00:41:54Right.
00:41:55What's your approach to the plate?
00:41:56Can you be a better pesky guy that can put together a quality at bat?
00:42:02That has been lacking not just from those guys, but overall as a team, it feels like they swing early and often in these counts.
00:42:08And it was driving me crazy.
00:42:09And I know they had good pitches to swing at, but they would miss a lot of those pitches.
00:42:13So it was tough to watch.
00:42:14And that's why you say those easy innings were compiling on the Yankees team in the playoffs.
00:42:18The other thing, Joel, is that when they do play these better teams that are better at baseball and they know to be pesky at the plate
00:42:24and they know to have a pitching plan and they just look like a more gelled team, it feels like,
00:42:29or the vibe is better on the opposing dugout compared to the Yankees in these series in the playoffs.
00:42:34I just wonder if philosophically, like you said, can they actually make that change as an organization to say,
00:42:40we don't need to hit home runs all the time.
00:42:42We don't need to be focused on that part of the game.
00:42:44Like, we need to be a better team all around.
00:42:46I think they won't.
00:42:48Well, I'll say this is.
00:42:50I think they'll continue to attempt to be a better all around team.
00:42:54I think they've saw the value of better defense in the second half this year, especially after August 1st.
00:43:01I think that they saw the value of being threats on the bases, but they will not catch that chip.
00:43:10For to have Ernie Clement on their roster.
00:43:12Yeah.
00:43:13You know, like, I think that, that, you know, when you're a hammer, you see a nail.
00:43:18When you're in the Yankee front office, you see the ball going over the fence as the philosophy for how you win.
00:43:25And I think those guys, and I do think it is job one with a bullet.
00:43:31Like, I think it's the most important thing is you got to get in.
00:43:34And I think that they're, what they're most comfortable with is a 162 game philosophy, which is Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated, who I work with at MLB Network, wrote a piece that was really, I've attempted to write on this a bunch and talk about it.
00:43:52And I thought it was the best thing done on it, where he kind of broke down, like, what their record is when they hit two homers in a game, what their record is when they hit one, like, and just, it's, it's like counting cards.
00:44:04They're trying to play as many games as possible where they hit two homers, because if they hit two homers, they win 86% of the time, right?
00:44:13And if you just think of it, if you remove the humanity from it, which I'm sure that that wing of the party does, and just think of it as we have to get in, the surest way to get in is hit at least two homers in a game.
00:44:29I don't see them going away from that philosophy, because they would also say, if we hit two homers in a postseason game, we'll win, right?
00:44:38The Yankees hit two homers in game three, they won.
00:44:40They didn't hit two homers in any other game.
00:44:43They lost the three games.
00:44:44I guess you could say that's true, but what it does to you is it leaves you, like, I brought my gun.
00:44:51Okay, we're taking away your gun.
00:44:53Do you have a knife on you?
00:44:55I do not.
00:44:56Yeah, I do not.
00:44:57Do you have brass knuckles?
00:44:58I do not.
00:44:59I don't have a plan.
00:45:00Like, that's the problem.
00:45:02Plan B and plan C are not here.
00:45:04The pitching is going to be good enough that there has to be a frustrate them.
00:45:14Like, Yankee pitching was getting frustrated with what the Blue Jays were doing.
00:45:18Like, they used to get frustrated by what the Astros did.
00:45:22And I'm not just talking about sign-stealing 2017.
00:45:25The Astros were always a good team at defying strikeouts and making Yankee pitchers work.
00:45:30And at some point, the Yankees are, like, do jealousy pretty well where they look like the whole Yankee history changes because Brian Cashman saw what Theo Epstein did with the Red Sox and said, if we don't do that, we're going to be so far behind.
00:45:45And by the way, convinced George Steinbrenner to do it.
00:45:48And it was the right thing to do.
00:45:50The Yankees were way behind in understanding, like, the stuff, the modern stuff that you could do to, like, find players and improve performance and stuff like that.
00:45:58There is a finer detail here.
00:46:01It feels to me like I know that it's a punch on the Yankees all the time.
00:46:06I think, in general, the Yankees front office does a very good job.
00:46:09It's very hard to actually win 94 games every year and make good decisions and whatever.
00:46:15But I think they have a giant blind spot about the actual feel, nuance, play of the game where it's like I think they would say that's all bullshit and that if you don't hit homers, you're not going to finesse your way to wins.
00:46:32And they would say the Blue Jays won games one and two because they hit eight homers and we hit one.
00:46:39So we needed to hit more homers.
00:46:41Right?
00:46:42I'm telling you what I think they would say.
00:46:44Right?
00:46:44And I don't think that you and I would talk them out of that.
00:46:49And so when you ask me do I think that they'll change, I don't think so.
00:46:54And part of the problem is, again, I'm working on a piece right now about like what I would do this offseason.
00:47:02And so, you know, it's not hard to do the research.
00:47:05You could start with like who has like a low strikeout percentage.
00:47:10Of those guys, who has a low strikeout percentage and is also a good defensive player?
00:47:15You'll be surprised how many of them are Blue Jays, by the way, are also good defensive players.
00:47:19How many of them are both of those and are even Major League Average hitters?
00:47:26Do any of them?
00:47:27So like all of those, like a guy who fits into that category is Bryson Stott of the Phillies.
00:47:34He doesn't strike out a lot.
00:47:36He's a terrific defensive player.
00:47:38He's at least Major League Average on offense.
00:47:41He is one of the worst postseason players you could imagine.
00:47:45Like the Phillies find it hard to play him and it's not a few games anymore.
00:47:47The Phillies are in the playoffs every year.
00:47:48He's up to like 35, 40 games.
00:47:50I love Bryson Stott as a player.
00:47:52I would try to try.
00:47:53But like sometimes you could literally get like if you and I were sitting today and saying the Yankees should trade Jazz Chisholm and get some stuff for him before he leaves in free agency.
00:48:03Because also there's other things we might not love about Jazz.
00:48:06And let's like then pivot around and get Bryson Stott.
00:48:09And I think you and I on the day of that trade would say that's the perfect kind of player for them.
00:48:14And then if he played anything like he's played for the Phillies in the postseason, you guys would all pull your hair out and say, how do you trade for this guy?
00:48:22And he's like the perfect, like he is the Ernie Clement profile.
00:48:26Terrific on defense, good base runner, puts the ball in play, Major League Average, offense for a regular season.
00:48:33And like Ryan, this is why I'm saying it's hard to win a championship.
00:48:37It's hard to put this all together because on a piece of paper, some things make a lot of sense.
00:48:44And then it doesn't fully translate or it doesn't translate right away.
00:48:49I'm sitting here with an evergreen thing.
00:48:51I'm not actually the Yankee general manager.
00:48:53And even playing the 31st general manager and the Yankee GM and trying to come up with, here's what I would do this offseason.
00:49:01It's hard to turn the Titanic this way and get more of those players.
00:49:06They're not easy to find where you could live with them defensively, all that stuff.
00:49:10And that kind of stuff.
00:49:13And it's just that it's not easy to find those players, which is why I go back to you got to fix some of yours.
00:49:22Right.
00:49:22Especially the ones who had a profile that should fit into this.
00:49:28Like Anthony Volpe should be some version of this if he was the guy the Yankees project him to be.
00:49:35Now, after 400 plus games, we might say that ain't happening.
00:49:40It's not happening.
00:49:40It's not happening.
00:49:41It's not happening.
00:49:41Right?
00:49:42But your job as an organization is to make players better.
00:49:48Correct.
00:49:4810% better Austin Wells and Anthony Volpe.
00:49:5310%.
00:49:53Not like, hey, he needs to hit 315 and whatever.
00:49:5910%.
00:49:59Bring down your strikeout percentage a few points.
00:50:02Get to league average.
00:50:03245, 250 hitting.
00:50:05With two strikes.
00:50:07Look at what Bellinger does.
00:50:09The fact that you're still trying to hit a home run at two strikes.
00:50:11That's freaking ridiculous.
00:50:14You hit 19 homers this year.
00:50:15I just, I don't know if he, I look, look, he might not.
00:50:20I think I've seen enough.
00:50:21If there's any moment to have doubts about the player, it's at the end of this season.
00:50:26It's now been three full years.
00:50:29Conversely, the Yankees love the player, the makeup, and they're not running away from him.
00:50:35And it's not an easy position to find.
00:50:38I know.
00:50:38And even if you're a big fan of George Lombard, he's not ready yet.
00:50:42I wouldn't call him up.
00:50:43So, so, so, so, so you're stop gapping.
00:50:45And if you're stop gapping, I think, I actually think I would agree with this also.
00:50:49If I'm stop gapping, I'm picking door A.
00:50:53I either get Anthony, you either show up on February, whatever, ready to play this way.
00:50:58And if you don't win your job, I'll live with Caballero and Cabrera.
00:51:03Right.
00:51:04And whatever quadruple A guy, whatever Nicky Lopez to be named later or whatever, I sign,
00:51:11whom I hope has a good, you know, my hope, my major league scouts went out and really
00:51:15watched triple A.
00:51:16And there was some quadruple A guy out there who we feel like could feel the position and
00:51:21not humiliate himself if we had to call him up and play him.
00:51:24Uh, I would not, I, there is no way off of these three years that Anthony Volpe, A, has
00:51:32a gilded path to shortstop next year.
00:51:34If I run the team and B, is it under some threat?
00:51:38I haven't even used my options on this guy yet.
00:51:41Right.
00:51:41He just made the team.
00:51:42I got options, dude.
00:51:44I can open up a lot of stuff.
00:51:46I could have three shortstops on the team instead of you.
00:51:49If I want to use the options.
00:51:50Right.
00:51:51Certainly feels like it.
00:51:52So to me, I, I, I really think some tough love is, is needed here.
00:52:00But the question is, does this front office even believe in that, that tough love should
00:52:06be delivered or that Anthony Volpe should continue to swing as if he's Dustin Pedroia when he
00:52:12spent three years proving he is not.
00:52:14Well, you've seen what the history of player development is with this team, Joel.
00:52:17It's not been pretty with young players besides Aaron judge.
00:52:19I'll give him credit for Ben Rice offensively been great.
00:52:22Um, but it's been a lot of regression from these guys who had that instant pop.
00:52:27And then they, we talked about it.
00:52:29They just get worse over time and, and they, they wilter away.
00:52:32It's crazy to me when I, when I was listing them out before when my buddies here and we're
00:52:36talking Yanks were like, man, some of these guys aren't in major league baseball anymore.
00:52:40These guys, the players that the Yankees were once highly tied to prospects that came
00:52:44up and made this grandiose appearance.
00:52:46And then they just falter and wilter away to not even major league players anymore.
00:52:51Yeah.
00:52:51Yeah.
00:52:52I bet you that's true with a lot of organizations though.
00:52:54I know, I know, but it's right.
00:52:57Like, so what's funny is, is like, I'm, I'm trying to give it a little bit of the yin
00:53:00yang.
00:53:00You're saying Ryan, it's really hard to find a shortstop and an imposition player that
00:53:05can, that's out there in the free agent market.
00:53:07Go, go look, finding them at, you know, at the, at the store or whatever it's right.
00:53:10It's like, okay.
00:53:10But now it's about how do you do it internally to supplement your team?
00:53:14Cause you do have to have that part of your team when you run it.
00:53:16This franchise has been desperate, I think, to develop actual good starting position players.
00:53:22And right now you just listed out four premium guys here who all have ginormous question marks
00:53:27heading into the next season, which makes this even more of a, of a troubling off season for
00:53:32the Yankees and how they're going to navigate it.
00:53:35Yeah.
00:53:36And you know, with the puzzle of, I would expect if anything, the payroll will come down instead
00:53:40of go up.
00:53:41Uh, you know, so, uh, yeah, I, I look, it's probably for, we're not going to stop doing
00:53:48this.
00:53:48I assume there's a lot of stuff we could talk about what they're positioned to do this off
00:53:53season and what they're not positioned to do.
00:53:56Uh, I, I do think that it will get lost.
00:54:01You heard my, what my criticism is in general, this is a front office that does well at putting
00:54:07together a team that gets the 90 plus wins.
00:54:09I assume they'll get to work and do something that looks a lot like that.
00:54:14Uh, we forget it this time of year, like the blue Jays hadn't won a playoff game since
00:54:182016 when they finally do it.
00:54:21It's like, Oh, they know what they're doing in the Yankees.
00:54:24Don't the Red Sox finished last a lot when they get it.
00:54:27It's like, they know what they're doing.
00:54:28The Yankees don't when the Orioles made the playoffs two years in a row.
00:54:31Oh, they're the giant ready to happen in the division.
00:54:34And the Yankees aren't.
00:54:35And it's like, the Yankees are the constant.
00:54:37They know how to get there.
00:54:39Do they have a giant blind spot about when they get in the red zone and what it takes
00:54:47to, you know, it's like, uh, watching the football giants.
00:54:50They could get to about the 12 yard line.
00:54:52Good luck from there.
00:54:53Yeah.
00:54:54You know, thing.
00:54:55And, uh, obviously the Yankees are a lot better than the football giants have been, but, uh,
00:55:00just the idea of like the Yankees have clearly shown, they know how to get there.
00:55:05Correct.
00:55:05And I would not dismiss that.
00:55:07Never.
00:55:08It was a year where we, where we just watched what happened to the Mets.
00:55:10It was a mirror.
00:55:11It was incredible pivot in the off season from the Juan Soto Yankees.
00:55:15And it was a very good pivot in July.
00:55:17Correct.
00:55:17It was a very bad June and July.
00:55:19And, and like I, Ryan, if you would have told me I ever said it was a tremendous trade to
00:55:26trade for somebody with an 80 OPS plus on a 33% strikeout rate, that would have seemed
00:55:32crazy to me.
00:55:33And I actually think Ryan McMahon's a really good baseball player.
00:55:35He's a hell of a baseball player.
00:55:36And, and, and by the way, in the post season he hit and he didn't strike out and it does
00:55:43make me, I think the comparison I used with you, and I might've used it in my column the
00:55:48day they got it is, is there a Scott Brocious kind of thing in there because he's been around
00:55:54losing so much, but in a place where he was expected to help stop the losing.
00:55:59And he's a, he's a co-star, a supporting guy.
00:56:02Like he's a guy who comes in and he's like, he's good in every movie.
00:56:06But he can't carry your movie, but you're glad he's in the scene.
00:56:10If so, if you're in the right movie, God, it's great to have them like Brocious.
00:56:14Like once Brocious didn't have to be a, a weight carrier because that was Jeter and
00:56:18Bernie and, and O'Neal and Martinez, it allowed him to flourish.
00:56:23The offensive player I watched again, it's 10 days, who knows, but like even a left on
00:56:30left home run for Ryan and McNamara in the post season, like Ryan.
00:56:36Ryan McMahon playing in New York in front of me was a much better player than I thought
00:56:42when I kept seeing him come to the city field.
00:56:44And I was like, Hey, he's okay on defense, but he strikes out a lot.
00:56:47Well, why is this guy hitting third for a team?
00:56:49It's like, but what if he's hitting seventh and playing defense and hitting 20 homers?
00:56:53Yeah.
00:56:53And on a team like this figures out he could shorten up his swing and get down to what's
00:56:58a 24% strike.
00:57:00Like, like, is any of that possible for him?
00:57:02He's 30 already.
00:57:03I would bet against it.
00:57:04And still on defense baseball IQ and popping it out of the ballpark alone, he's worth that
00:57:12trade because he was so good on defense.
00:57:14And he clearly like, you talk about guys who look like, like, like I landed in heaven.
00:57:20I was on the Rockies and I like, and that doesn't always work, right?
00:57:23Jake bird was on the, on the Rockies and came to the Yankees.
00:57:26And we're going to have to put out an APB to see if we can find him like, so it doesn't
00:57:32always work.
00:57:33So when a guy like Bednar is able to handle it from Pittsburgh or Clay Holmes from Pittsburgh
00:57:38or Scott Brocious from Oakland or Ryan McMahon from Colorado, that's not always happened.
00:57:44Right?
00:57:44Like I suggested the other day, the Cardinals want to trade Sonny Gray.
00:57:47I said, what about like to the Phillies?
00:57:49They could, you know, they're about to lose Ranger Suarez to free agency.
00:57:53And somebody said, you really want to put Sonny Gray in a big market again?
00:57:57And I was like, right.
00:57:58You know what I mean?
00:57:59And so it's like, that doesn't always happen.
00:58:01The McMahon trade was really good.
00:58:02The Bednar trade was really good.
00:58:04Duvall looked good in the post season as well.
00:58:06Like you think he had his moments like, like I should start to think about the next bullpen
00:58:09where Duvall would be an important part of it and Fernando Cruz, you know, Fernando Cruz
00:58:13for Jose Trevino, like, like the front office is a good front office.
00:58:17That's why I'm saying the pivot was awesome.
00:58:18Wondering is though, is there this thing when there's a jump ball?
00:58:23In the organization, does it always go to one wing of the party?
00:58:27And that one wing is always going to see it as casino baseball.
00:58:31And is that the deadly flaw with the team that will make me and you do this same show
00:58:37over and over and over again in October?
00:58:39Yeah.
00:58:39And look, I do want to touch real quick on what you had said before about, look, Ryan,
00:58:44like it's, it takes a lot to get the post season, a lot of credit there.
00:58:47But you also hit on something there about the Blue Jays.
00:58:50It's, they just figured it out.
00:58:51The Red Sox finishing last, but then they make a world series run.
00:58:54But every time the Yankees lose in the post season, it's to those Blue Jays.
00:58:58It's to those Red Sox.
00:58:59It's to those Astros, which makes me question.
00:59:01I understand that they struggle and they barely get in the playoffs sometimes or they finish
00:59:06last.
00:59:06But some reason they get in the post season and the Yankees just falter to these teams
00:59:12and you're like, what's going on?
00:59:14Like why, where is that, that missing piece, that element where they can't get over the
00:59:18hump on those teams that are non AL central teams in the playoffs of recent.
00:59:22Yeah.
00:59:22I, I do think some of it is that it's very random and very hard.
00:59:28But having said that, at some point you've got to cast your chip.
00:59:31There's fair and there's sports fair, right?
00:59:34In sports fair, at some point, Aaron Boone's team has got to be able to beat these teams
00:59:40and win in the post season.
00:59:41It didn't happen again this year.
00:59:43And I'm sure that there's not a singular reason for this, but, uh, forgive the repetitiveness.
00:59:51If you said, Joel, to speak in the first, the third person, Joel, why do you, what do you
00:59:57think is the biggest reason?
00:59:58I think the Yankees offensive profile is easier to pitch to at this time of year.
01:00:05What works from April through September.
01:00:08I think they need to temper it somewhat, not give it away, like not give it away.
01:00:16Got to hit 200 plus homers.
01:00:17If you're the Yankees and playing in that stadium.
01:00:19And I think naturally, naturally they won't give it up.
01:00:22Cause you're going to have Stan judge.
01:00:23You're going to have those guys in your lineup.
01:00:25I think you also like the idea of the threat up and down the lineup as much as possible.
01:00:31Right.
01:00:31Um, but you can relinquish some of it to be a better, tougher out.
01:00:41Yeah.
01:00:42And I think if the Yankees had me in front of them to try to appeal to their, the factions,
01:00:49it's the point I would try to make.
01:00:51I, and again, I always think I'm fallible.
01:00:54It doesn't mean I'm right, but I watched them, as you know, pretty intently.
01:00:57And for many years, and if they had me in front of them, I would say, guys, let's not
01:01:06just throw away 30 homers or 40 homers or 50 homers.
01:01:09But if that's the cost of like, let's self scout ourselves.
01:01:14Let's put our scouts on us and ask our scouts this question.
01:01:20Are we going to easily line up to pitch to with good pitching in October?
01:01:23And if the answer to that question is, I'm sorry to say yes.
01:01:28And I think that answer would be yes.
01:01:32Then we should not just be a team that says, Hey, I get it.
01:01:36But all it takes is two homers.
01:01:38And if we hit two homers, we'll win the playoff game too.
01:01:41I'm like, you're, you're taking away the only weapon.
01:01:44And I don't even have the knife.
01:01:46I don't even have the brass knuckles.
01:01:47I have nothing and I'm defenseless or offenseless to fight back.
01:01:53And I think that this, these Yankees need to kind of like, it's why I think Bellinger
01:02:01is such an important re-sign and then everything they do moving forward, whether it's improving
01:02:06their own or adding to the offensive profiled group has to include, is this guy a really,
01:02:13really tough out, like how many tough outs, but because again, as you're pitching, there's
01:02:19nobody more thoughtful about pitching.
01:02:21Like, like Garrett Cole and Max Fried are probably like as PhD thoughtful on pitching as possible.
01:02:26Put them in a room.
01:02:27Yeah.
01:02:28Say, who do you not want to pitch to in big spots in the post season?
01:02:33And see if you can go get some of them guys.
01:02:36Final thoughts, Joel Sherman.
01:02:37I asked you this on the last episode and you said, Ryan, wait till this series is over
01:02:42and I'm going to ask you now, is this an ultimate failure for the Yankees this season?
01:02:47Yeah, because I, again, big picture at some point, you got to cash in the chip and because
01:02:54judge will be 34, Cole 35, Stanton 36, when you kind of do this all over again, because
01:03:00it's another easy opening up of the Boone Cashman thing and it hasn't gone stale and should they
01:03:07change?
01:03:09You want to try to shut off the noise on that at some, like, like at some point there's
01:03:14a randomness, but you have to win the randomness game at some point.
01:03:19And again, I don't think it's all random because I think that the offensive profile is part of
01:03:24this and I think that they did have a team that was hot and playing well-rounded going
01:03:31in and that the American League, their road was tougher, but there was no reason why they
01:03:38couldn't win the road.
01:03:40Totally.
01:03:41And the fact that they couldn't and they, it really was like a close, not close series.
01:03:49It wasn't like, again, I walk away from this and I'm not like, eh, it's just this one thing.
01:03:56It wasn't one thing.
01:03:58I don't think it was managing.
01:03:59The Blue Jays outplayed them for four games.
01:04:03They outplayed them all season, especially in their ballpark, which is why those games,
01:04:07first two games were in Rogers Center.
01:04:09And I, I would find that very hard to swallow if I were the Yankees.
01:04:14There's a, I, I'll say this is if I woke up on, uh, I think that the, the, the baseball
01:04:22season ended on September 28th, I think this year, the regular season, if I woke up on September
01:04:2729th and I were the Mets, I couldn't live with myself that I didn't get in.
01:04:33If I woke up this morning as the Yankees, I couldn't live with myself that we couldn't
01:04:36figure out a way to keep going because I don't think there's a super team in the league
01:04:41and the best version of the Yankees, which did not show up in this series, some knowledge
01:04:47agree because Max Fried was bad, but didn't show up in this series.
01:04:53I, it'd be hard for me to wake up this morning and kind of like get through the day if I were
01:04:58the Yankees, because there was a road open to them to get back to the series and a road
01:05:06where if it's, Hey, you beat the Red Sox. Hey, you beat the Blue Jays. Hey, you beat the
01:05:11picket. The best version of the Tigers or the Mariners and the discussion that you can't
01:05:20beat those kinds of teams gone. Now we'll see if you can beat the Dodgers, Phillies, Brewers,
01:05:24who's ever getting there, but like so much would have gone away. And instead it's all
01:05:31an open wound again that we're talking about. I'm sure we'll talk about a lot more during
01:05:36the off season, but yeah, I think an ultimate, I thought they were a good, good. The lead
01:05:43I had on my column was they were again, good enough to be very good, but not good enough
01:05:48to be great. That's how I feel about them again. Look, it's going to be diagnosed for
01:05:55the next couple of weeks. And then it's going to be before we know it, GM winter meetings.
01:06:00We're going to be talking about the off season and we're going to be talking about what's
01:06:02how this Yankees team is going to try to pivot and figure out the next approach for
01:06:05next year. Joel, I know today wasn't easy. I know, appreciate you coming on here always
01:06:11doing the therapy session with us. We're looking forward to this column. We're going to
01:06:15looking forward to your, all your pieces throughout the rest of this off season. And I'm sure we'll
01:06:19be talking to you a bunch here as we go through it. But as always, man, I appreciate you for
01:06:22doing season number two here on pinstripe post another successful year. We appreciate the
01:06:27fans coming out and watching us and commenting and, and the growth on this channel and what
01:06:32we've been putting on with this thing. It's, it's been awesome to see all of you watch the
01:06:36show and, and be a part of this. And, uh, we're just going to continue to keep grinding
01:06:39and giving you Yankees content like this. And I know Joel, Joel really appreciates all you
01:06:44fans for watching as well. Yep. Uh, echo everything Ryan said and, uh, back to Ryan for doing the
01:06:50show with him. Joel, we'll catch you next time, buddy. Uh, get some rest and, uh, we'll see
01:06:55you, bud. All right. Be well, Ryan.
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