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00:00:00I think the Yankees are going to kind of be in it and my suspicion is do what the Yankees usually do
00:00:07which is when they really want a player they let Scott Boris in this case know we really want your
00:00:13player if he really wants us don't let him sign without us getting getting in at the end
00:00:20hello and welcome to the Pinstripe Post my name is Ryan Sampson he's the star of the show Joel
00:00:26Sherman today is Tuesday October 21st listen the World Series is set it's Blue Jays versus the
00:00:33Dodgers after a thrilling game seven last night Joel Sherman was there in Toronto I don't know
00:00:39how he's operating right now I'm assuming there's a lot of caffeine going through his veins right now
00:00:43how are you feeling right now today Joel good you know I generally agree with the you know I think
00:00:49I've said this on the show quite a lot my dad drove a truck for 46 years I know everything I do is
00:00:54easier than that and there's a privilege and a pleasure in doing this stuff that we do including
00:01:02I was in the ballpark in 93 same ballpark in 93 when Joe Carter walked off Mitch Williams and the
00:01:09Phillies that and I was back there yesterday different name it was called Sky Dome then it's
00:01:13Rogers Center now to see it but you know a tough tough turnaround you know get back to the hotel
00:01:19to get up at five to get a plane from Toronto so that I could be sitting here doing this with you
00:01:26and then you know in about a day and a half I'm flying back to Toronto for the the start of the
00:01:31world you know media day is Thursday World Series games one and two are Friday Saturday and you know
00:01:38we'll be off and running for the end of the 2025 baseball season but the end of the American League
00:01:43season was really quite something yesterday the storylines were pretty strong about these two
00:01:49teams going long times in one case forever now uh without making it to the World Series I know we'll
00:01:56we're we're Yankee uh uh webcast and you know it is worthwhile to remember there are organizations
00:02:03that have misery that quite outstrip that of the Yankees who are kind of have lots of championships
00:02:11and lots of wax at it year after year and these were two of those teams who have been wandering in
00:02:16the baseball desert trying to get there again and uh the Blue Jays and their fans had quite a night
00:02:22last night and it was a it was it was uh great to be there yeah look uh it's something to see when the
00:02:29team that eliminated you uh and meeting the Yankees in the playoffs ends up going to the World Series
00:02:34it makes you wonder what if and that was where I wanted to start here with you Joel is that
00:02:39you know it was a seven game series and it went a lot of back and forth but if you were to look at
00:02:46this from a bird's eye view of how if the Yankees had gotten past somehow the Blue Jays would do you
00:02:52think we'd be talking about Yankees Dodgers rematch in the World Series yeah I mean I I think I said at
00:02:59the very beginning of the postseason uh you could convince me the Yankees lose to the Red Sox you could
00:03:05convince me they go to the World Series and I think that if we played this postseason 20 times
00:03:10uh there are five to ten of them no fewer I think where the Yankees go to the World Series it isn't
00:03:17I just watched these seven games uh pretty much up close and uh I you know the outcomes are there
00:03:25out of the outcomes but I didn't look at these teams and say they're far better than the Yankees
00:03:30uh you know you you see you know it's so funny uh Ryan because the Mariners offense is so much the
00:03:38Yankees I think the Mariners scored 23 of their 28 runs something like that via home run like most of
00:03:45the guys in their batting water were hitting under 200 you know the bottom of their lineup you know
00:03:51you could talk about Volpe or Wells I'll talk about Victor Robles and Dominic Canzone and lots of guys
00:03:57who would feel can't get hits uh and so uh you know and you could put up uh any Aaron Boone decision
00:04:05uh allowing Edward Bozardo to give up the biggest hit of your season at the biggest moment without
00:04:13using Munoz who hadn't given up a hit yet this postseason to that moment uh I think would rival
00:04:19Dan Wilson's decision in the uh in the seventh inning against Springer as the top of the order is coming
00:04:25up again I I would say that stands up with some pretty bad stuff I've seen over the years so I mean
00:04:30I think that there are probably three or four teams in the American League who all feel like hey
00:04:36you know like uh slide the doors a little bit and we we could be in the World Series and I mean I think
00:04:44the Yankees I I've said this on the show a couple of times previously I thought that the 2025 Yankees
00:04:51as a total team were better than the 2024 Yankees who actually went to the World Series
00:04:56but the draw was different uh last year's draw was much easier for the Yankees with Kansas City
00:05:01and Cleveland this was a tougher draw for them and Toronto you know like there is no pretend
00:05:07championship but Toronto first of all earned heads up during the season the right to play at home
00:05:14both in the Yankees series with home field advantage and ultimately game seven by having the best
00:05:19record in the league you know the Yankees lost a lot of games to the Toronto Blue Jays this year so
00:05:24it's hard to that now to say hey the Yankees should have won this thing uh you know they had their
00:05:29opportunities against the Blue Jays they didn't solve them and um you know I'm being long-winded here so
00:05:35let's let's talk about it in some form or fashion you know ultimately the Yankees are going to have to
00:05:40prove that they could beat these kind of teams at this time of year I don't know if that's about
00:05:46tactics or temperament uh or both but uh when they run up against this kind of team annually
00:05:54uh you know who kind of can stand up to them it's usually the Yankees who get knocked out
00:05:59well it's funny you say that so it is usually the Yankees get knocked out but you also were at
00:06:05the Brian Cashman Aaron Boone presser season end presser last week and I heard your takeaways Joel
00:06:11uh and I think a lot of Yankees fans resonated with what you what you said about this is the Yankees
00:06:18from what I had heard and what your takeaways were they're going to run it back with the same thing
00:06:24and their formula is not going to change they're going to try to outbash you with home runs and have
00:06:30good starting pitching and try to build a good bullpen and believe that the homers and the starting
00:06:37pitching that they have here in house can hopefully carry them all the way to the World Series
00:06:41I guess let's let's take a step back for you now that you've had you know you've had a couple days
00:06:48to process what they said are you still on that that they're going to continue to go back with
00:06:52the same old Yankees routine of how they're going to approach this offseason
00:06:56yeah well I mean the uh the uh the Mariners got to within eight outs of using that formula to get to
00:07:04the World Series this year so uh I think if you look uh the team that has hit the most homers in a
00:07:12game this postseason don't don't hold me to this but it is something like 24 and 5 right now like if
00:07:18you don't hit homers this point a year like the Milwaukee Brewers everybody loved them right oh contact
00:07:24whatever like if you don't put the ball over the fence you're going home uh so let's say that putting
00:07:31the ball over the fence is vital uh as part of your weaponry probably the most important part of
00:07:37your weaponry I I think I said on one of these previous shows that I do think that because the
00:07:44Yankees haven't won a World Series in 16 seasons uh that every year kind of gets lumped on the other
00:07:51but Ryan we did a lot of shows last year and you know that those shows were me saying the Yankees
00:07:58are bad at baseball and that it's ultimately going to bite them and it did specifically in games one
00:08:04and particularly game five of the World Series against the Dodgers and I thought the Yankees act
00:08:10after that was tired where they did like well you know like what do you you know look what are you
00:08:15talking about it's like well you didn't fix this all year uh I actually think they went a long way
00:08:20to fix it this year I think that this was distinct from some of the other years again I think this team
00:08:25was better than last year uh uh and that's not like sometimes you go where you go I also thought
00:08:32the 2017 2019 and 2022 Yankees were better than the 2024 Yankees they ran into the Astros the Astros
00:08:39always had the Yankees number and the Yankees lost but I think if the Yankees played a tournament
00:08:43against those versions of the Yankees those versions win and so I think the Yankees are building from
00:08:48something that's a little different that Brian Cashman did address defense they got better on
00:08:55defense I think that they got uh uh the ability to score runs in different ways by using their legs
00:09:03a little better all while being a home run hitting team and I come back more and more whether is this
00:09:12an Aaron Boone an Aaron Judge uh playing in New York whatever it is I'm not sure that it's
00:09:20uh style or tactics I thought it was last year I just think that this team doesn't win a fair fight
00:09:29in October like if it's not a fair fight if it's the twins sure like bring on the twins they're great
00:09:36against them bring on the AL Central bring on the A's bring on the Roman Anthony lists Red Sox uh
00:09:42but when it gets a little fair uh uh you know during the Aaron Boone tenure uh they've played five
00:09:51playoff series against AL East teams they're one in four they beat the Red Sox this year uh and they've
00:09:58they you know they've lost to Toronto and and uh Tampa Bay uh and you know those teams are used to
00:10:04playing against them they don't uh you know they don't do uh you know they don't back down to the
00:10:12Yankees like the AL Central at this time of year and so I Ryan I don't know if there's a way to fix
00:10:19is that like changing manager maybe maybe like would they they'd be tougher minded maybe but like you know
00:10:28Joe Girardi was manager for 10 years they won they won once in 10 years right uh and I I I don't think
00:10:36it's as easy as a fix as it seems I thought that this was a very very well-rounded Yankee team that
00:10:43lost the playoff series to the team that had their number and if it there wasn't a team that had their
00:10:48number every year we would have just said yeah that was an interesting season but because it gets piled on
00:10:53the 15 years before that I think we look for meaning um so don't you think that maybe maybe
00:11:00that goes into part of the preparation that the Yankees I know the Yankees like you said have
00:11:05have tried to to streamline their process right like they're all about looking into the analytics of
00:11:12guys they're looking into how they're practicing how they how they eat how they train all of it they
00:11:17look into all those things but there must be something going on in these other organizations and
00:11:22it's credit to the Blue Jays and the Red Sox and the Astros when they do beat the Yankees in the
00:11:26playoffs because their process works it is there something to this Yankees process Joel that maybe
00:11:31it just isn't the right way to go about it and that the Yankees are maybe just a step below or a
00:11:37notch below the other teams when it goes about prepping prepping for these world series or these
00:11:42playoff uh series I don't know that we'll ever get a perfect percentage for this uh of course we won't
00:11:48but like I I would say the Blue Jays and Dodgers are no less analytic than the Yankees and they're
00:11:53about to play in the 121st world series uh those teams uh and and also nobody ever defines what
00:12:00analytics means uh you know is that sports science well if you ain't working on sports science
00:12:06you're you're a fool uh you know you're trying to come up with the way to keep your players healthy
00:12:11or come up with torpedo bats you know like uh this is uh you know you're you're trying on every level
00:12:17to maximize performance um I I have used this term before I think if and again it's very nebulous
00:12:27Ryan I think these are finer details and I'm not sure that anything's ever perfect but sometimes I do
00:12:34wonder if the Yankees lack feel in putting a team together um about like uh uh makeup character
00:12:46when the going gets tough the tough get going you know George Springer is essentially playing on one
00:12:53leg last night I'm not saying there aren't Yankees who would play on one leg that would that would be
00:12:57silly you know the Yankees win a lot of games they did get to the World Series last year but there's
00:13:02something in the if this makes sense tiles don't hang if you don't have good grout and you know like
00:13:10you need the stuff between the tiles to make it all work and I think sometimes in the construction of
00:13:17who's in their clubhouse or maybe who's delivering messages there is a little something lost because I
00:13:26just I think I'm always looking for the the serial nature of something sure and the real nature of
00:13:35this is what's not one year for the Yankees what's not one year is just not being able to kind of will
00:13:44themselves through a more even up battle and I I I I think even if you went to to town on it Ryan I'm
00:13:55not sure that you'd solve it but man as much time as I put into my pitch lab which again I think is
00:14:02vital and sports science and data all of it which I don't poo poo like I don't call guys nerds and stuff
00:14:11like this this is if you're not at the top of the field in these areas you're going to be in the
00:14:14bottom of baseball but I do think there's a humanity to this uh around fortitude toughness mental real
00:14:26toughness that I wonder because I keep seeing them get to this moment and it feels and feels is always a
00:14:35tough word right because you can't define it but it feels for many many years now that they don't
00:14:44stand up well uh at the most crucial moments that there's there's these moments of save your season
00:14:52or not and you know the best I've seen of them saving their season was a you know one Soto who came
00:15:01and went uh and again it was against an inferior a much more inferior opponent than the teams they
00:15:08lose to annually so I don't know how to quantify it I'm not even sure I know how I would begin to hunt
00:15:15to figure it out to fix it and yet if I ran the Yankees I'd be obsessed with it because I know it's not
00:15:22about desire to accumulate players who are great to win because I think the Yankees are in that game
00:15:30yeah uh I think this is about something if I had to put my finger on it it's about something finer
00:15:37and I'm you know does Brian Cashman lack that ability that feel to know the players does Aaron
00:15:46Boone and his coaching staff lack something does the the the construction of the clubhouse from Aaron
00:15:52Judge down lack something that when you know the fight is brutal in the in the I'm an old man I
00:16:00remember when championship fights were 15th rounds when it's the 13th and 14th round and you're
00:16:06fighting on will as much or more than skill how do the Yankees hold up there I don't think they've
00:16:13held up well in October as and I think it's been serial yeah it certainly feels like it Joel and and
00:16:20the responses we hear from these guys in the presser last week is they're going to continue to use
00:16:25what they what you consider serial it's going to continue for them and they're going to go about
00:16:29their process the same way I think there is this there is this thought that they believe look we
00:16:36just we we run into these really good teams and we just don't we come up short here in the playoffs
00:16:40when we when we when we have good teams ourselves I and they're gonna break through that's their
00:16:46thought and that's where their their belief that they're putting into and and but but Ryan you know
00:16:52like that actually might be right right right the the Blue Jays uh hadn't been to the World Series
00:16:59since 1993 and in this period where they've been run by Mark Shapiro and uh Ross Atkins the last three
00:17:06times they made the playoffs they got eliminated without winning a game right and like Vlad Guerrero
00:17:12was terrible like before this postseason uh it's easy to forget now because the Dodgers are going to be
00:17:19heavy favorites to become the first team to repeat as champion since the three-peat Yankees
00:17:23but from the last time we saw a guy give a home run before last night was Kirk Gibson game one 1988
00:17:33Dodgers go on to by the way prove you could stun a big underdog in the World Series as the Blue Jays
00:17:40are going to try to do now with the Dodgers they stun the Bash Brother A's who were big favorites from
00:17:46then until 2020 they didn't win a World Series uh they made the playoffs every year for about a 10-year
00:17:55period before 2020 and then would get knocked out and there were all kinds of Clayton Kershaw
00:18:02can you win if Kershaw is the key guy on your team can you win Dave Roberts as your manager
00:18:07is Andrew Friedman just the guy who brought all the nerdy stuff from Tampa and doesn't know how to
00:18:13finish it then they won 2020 and it kind of felt like the next three years they get eliminated
00:18:18relatively quickly so it's like oh did they just win a bizarre 60 game season and it's really like
00:18:24they have one kind of quote asterisk World Series since 1988 and now they look like the old Yankees they
00:18:31feel inevitable in the postseason uh so if I were the Yankees and I kind of like have to live with
00:18:40the way I do things I can look at the universe of other teams Ryan and say it's very hard to win a
00:18:48championship like like when the when the Phillies go to the World Series in 22 uh and it looks like man
00:18:57they've accumulated all this talent Dave Dombrowski is a finish off championship executive you'd say
00:19:03hey man they're gonna win at some point with this group but they've gotten diminishing returns each
00:19:09season they've made the playoffs all four years but each year they go a little less and I just think
00:19:16that fans don't want to hear it but these things are hard to win man and I'm not you know at some
00:19:23point you got to win it this is how yeah I think we say it on this show all the time there's fair
00:19:28and there's sports fair yep right like and sports fair is different because we are like it's a very
00:19:35small sample size but we're if you like parades are bizarre if you'd like to get one of them you have
00:19:41to win the small sample size one year and the Yankees haven't been able to win the small sample size
00:19:46they've taken a lot of wax at it and I believe that they would say what Andrew Friedman said for
00:19:53years and years if you keep going back and back and back one year you'll be at your healthiest and
00:20:00playing your best and you'll win and I think that they actually felt that might be this year because
00:20:05they were healthier like Boone mentioned that they were healthier and playing well going in
00:20:10and they just and that's why I go back to it wasn't about health and it wasn't about talent
00:20:17it was about something else which might be as simple as hey man Max Fried had a bad day if he
00:20:22didn't maybe the Yankees win this series but I just feel like the one thing that's been constant
00:20:28is when they've had a fair fight they haven't won in like a long time and uh they need
00:20:38they need a is it grittiness is it mental toughness there's something missing right
00:20:45we're not crazy they need more players who are kind of I don't know gamer-esque yeah been there
00:20:54done that can also win it for you like and when you need it the most feels like there's there's this
00:21:00level I don't know that you sense it I hear it in your voice I think you hear it in mine as well
00:21:04there is this sense about the Yankees right now they just can't get over that hump and that yeah
00:21:10it doesn't I'm telling you that was the feeling in like I was in Los Angeles in a lot of Octobers
00:21:16before 2020 and I'm telling you the Dodgers were getting killed for they're not tough the people who
00:21:26are running it are idiots Kershaw is a fake leader uh can't win with him etc and
00:21:34it feels reminiscent of where we are now and if I were the Yankees and I knew that I might say let's
00:21:41just keep getting back to the party and we'll get it right one of these years like like you know
00:21:47because again like can you convince yourself Giancarlo Stanton usually hits great in the postseason
00:21:52and he hit the hell out of the ball in this postseason but he didn't get batting average you
00:21:58know he didn't get production out of it like if he has if the ball falls for him conducive to the exit
00:22:05velocities and Max Freed has just a good day are they playing the Mariners I and so like it might not
00:22:13be about will and this other stuff and we're conflating this year where I thought they were
00:22:18better with these other years and yet when you're in charge of things you're in charge of trying to fix
00:22:23them and the one thing I keep coming back to is you consistently have not won this series you know
00:22:32we could change the opponent from Houston to Boston to Tampa to Toronto to the Dodgers when that team
00:22:40shows up in October you are not as up to the fight as the other as the opponent and I'm not exactly sure
00:22:51how you deal with it and fix it but I would be obsessed about it if I were in charge yeah and
00:22:59it's certainly if you talk to Yankees fans or at least the crazy ones though and I wouldn't even
00:23:04say they're crazy a lot of them will be like well spend like the Dodgers and go get Otani Betts Freeman
00:23:09and but all these pictures but Otani wasn't coming and he wasn't going anyplace but the Dodgers that
00:23:16wasn't a money thing right uh Betts was traded I'm not saying in the past I'm saying I'm saying
00:23:22even looking forward to the future right now like I like like I look I get it I know the cheap house
00:23:28stuff I don't think this is a financial thing I I could do it again would you like me to do it no
00:23:33no don't don't do it don't do it again I I I agree with you Joel I'm just again I'm telling you
00:23:38let's not cite crazy okay people saying dumb things okay like like ultimately the Yankees when
00:23:46they signed Garrett Cole I'm going to do it the Yankees when they signed Garrett Cole signed the
00:23:49most expensive pitcher of all time when they signed uh uh Aaron Judge it was the highest per annum in
00:23:56history when they traded for John Colostan nobody had come close at that point to acquiring as much
00:24:01money in a trade as they did 300 million dollars uh Max Fried and Carl are two of the highest paid
00:24:09free agent pitchers in the history of the game I think they're in the top five for lefty free
00:24:13agent pitchers I think Fried is number one they were in on the Juan Soto deal to the end they went
00:24:18they were in on the Juan Soto deal to the end and by the way made the kind of trade for Juan Soto that
00:24:24most teams are not willing to do if we're a walkier player would you like to go back over the last five
00:24:29years and see the number of prospects that they've traded chasing after a championship I'll deal with
00:24:36some stuff uh you know like I you know me I'm not shy about being critical of of the group I think
00:24:46that you've got to come up with a real argument I agree uh and the the real argument isn't Hal has
00:24:52cheaped out because like like it's because here's the deal whoever he let's say he doesn't cheap out he
00:24:59re-signs Bellinger this offseason they spend big on a relief pitcher whatever as soon as the season
00:25:05begins next year it's like well I don't know Bryce Harper was available in trade why didn't he trade
00:25:08for Harper like there's never going to be enough right like like this is job of the hut there's
00:25:14never enough food that's going to be shoved in for a crazy fan because it's always going to be about
00:25:20the next guy and it's not actually coming out of their pocket when it goes wrong and a lot of this
00:25:26goes wrong and look they're always in the top ends of the payroll I know they're not first with
00:25:30the Dodgers number three and and and I think the Mets were two they didn't get to the playoffs like
00:25:36like sometimes the things you could the things you could go after them right at least before and they
00:25:41got knocked out I mean and I look I I if I thought that this was a bottom line thing and and by the
00:25:49way geography matters and the Mets does Yankees are not alone in this the Mets feel the frustration of it
00:25:55the the being in in Southern California yeah which has Hollywood and ocean weather etc is a big
00:26:05lore to bring people in a large overwhelming Japanese community there was a time Ryan when
00:26:12Japanese players started to come to the major leagues where where the the players when they came
00:26:18they didn't want to play with other Japanese players they wanted to create their own stake like
00:26:23this is my team etc now we see Otani planted his flag in a place where he's comfortable he was
00:26:30already playing in Southern California he stayed there uh and that wasn't about money right he left
00:26:37he deferred 680 million dollars he wanted to play there and so the Mets offered more to Yamamoto
00:26:44than the Dodgers Yamamoto wanted to play there I think the Yankees got up to 300 million for
00:26:51Yamamoto right everyone went after Sasaki all the other 29 teams there's a huge advantage
00:26:57to to uh geography I agree where where the Dodgers are you still have to try to overcome everything
00:27:05this is an excuse-free zone but there are there's a difference between exclusive excuses and
00:27:10explanations and uh you can't put the weather of Southern California or Hollywood or you know
00:27:19you transplant them they are where they are 100% Joel and I think the one thing you could critique
00:27:24if and it's not about spending the resources it's not about trading the prospects the one thing you
00:27:28could critique is is thing if you want to go back and revisionist history is how they like where they
00:27:33spent and what players and what players they acquired going for stand instead of a Harper or Machado when
00:27:38they were there sticking with Volpe and and Peraza instead of going after the shortstop market that was
00:27:44available that free agency so there's multiple things but nobody gets it perfect no nobody gets it
00:27:48perfect and that's and and Harper left the Nationals and the Nationals won a World Series and if I
00:27:56I'm trying to count up all the World Series the Phillies have won with Harper or the Padres have won
00:28:01with Machado those would be they fail in the playoffs every year yeah their team also it's like look the
00:28:07answer is it's going to always be the other guy yeah until they win uh the excuse the reality is most
00:28:15teams spend a lot of money and they don't get a lot of production Judge has been great Freed was great
00:28:21Rodon after his first year has been great Stanton's been pretty good especially in the postseason like
00:28:26they've essentially when they've gone to the top of the market they've done pretty well uh for for what
00:28:34they've done I mean you could make a case that Judge is grossly underpaid for everything he does uh so uh
00:28:40uh you know I I just think the answer is always going to be and you know what's never discussed
00:28:47also is like put yourself back in the Harper Machado offseason there are a lot of questions about
00:28:54Harper and Machado temperamentally makeup like how they whatever like like we act like it doesn't exist
00:29:02today but there are a lot of teams that took those guys off the board remember Harper really
00:29:09went the whole offseason and ends up he's making like 25 million dollars a year I mean we should all
00:29:14be so blessed but he took for him an undervalued annual contract because nobody else was paying him
00:29:21it wasn't like the Yankees said no and then 29 other teams were bidding him up like crazy the Dodgers
00:29:28I think offered him like three years at 90 like they they were willing to give him a very high
00:29:33annual value but were afraid enough of the player that they were like let's get out of this if we're
00:29:38wrong that's what the sainted Dodgers did about him they had Machado hated it so much that they never
00:29:45bid on him when he was a free agent so we act like the Yankees made this strictly financial decision
00:29:52about these guys and again what's undefeated is 2020 hindsight and the next guy theorem but
00:30:04I just don't I think it's unfair not to read like like really think about who went after these players
00:30:12uh what did the Yankees do with the money instead of that did they pocket it or did they stay at a high
00:30:18level and I just think there are there are lots of places to criticize the modern era Yankees I just
00:30:26think that that's one of the weak tea places what well I will say Joel is that I agree with you
00:30:34and I do want to pivot here a little bit about the actual offseason for the Yankees here now
00:30:39Cody Bellinger is the guy right like he's the one the Yankees clearly are going to be prioritizing in
00:30:46the offseason but there will be an open market for his services give me two scenarios here if the
00:30:53Yankees sign him what would that contract look like you think and if they don't sign him could
00:30:59you see the Yankees making a trade for let's say the guy you just mentioned Bryce Harper he's out
00:31:05there we've heard his the Dave Dombrowski's comments were very interesting to me Joel I won't
00:31:09lie to you and a guy who grew up a Yankees fan I've always dreamed of wanting Bryce Harper in
00:31:13Yankee Stadium am I crazy uh well I don't think there's ever anything crazy about Yankee fans
00:31:22dreaming because historically the Yankees go after stars um uh I think that they again will probably
00:31:33do what they can to try to keep Bellinger who fits them well and I think is a an exceptional player
00:31:39and as far as what the number is going to be right I'm starting to do a lot of work on this stuff now
00:31:46and the the the the gulf between what some people think he's going to get and what other people think
00:31:53he's going to get is not a pond it's an ocean and so I think he's a I think there's a load of
00:32:03fascinating free agent cases this offseason of which his or one of them like look at it this way
00:32:09it's not that long ago that the this model franchise that the Yankee fans are now have either anger or
00:32:15jealousy towards the Dodgers non-tendered Cody Bellinger that's not that long ago he was so bad after being
00:32:23an MVP for him that they not intended last offseason a Scott Boris client a Scott Boris client
00:32:30opted into his contract in Cody Bellinger which meant that he was concerned he could not get a good
00:32:39deal in the marketplace a year later I hear some numbers from people that do not reflect what those
00:32:48two realities and those two realities will certainly be taken into account by the industry
00:32:56so does that mean he gets
00:33:00five at 110 or does that mean hell he outplayed Kyle Tucker this year and he gets eight at 240
00:33:13right like you could this is one of those ones where it's like yeah I hear you guys I got it
00:33:22uh but I think the Yankees are going to kind of be in it and my suspicion is do what the Yankees
00:33:31usually do which is when they really want a player they let Scott Boris in this case know we really want
00:33:38your player if he really wants us don't let him sign without us getting getting in at the end like
00:33:46like whatever it is we're going to be in play and there'll be a number that will break us but if you
00:33:53don't get there we're in it and I think that's how the Yankees do things on the kind of players they
00:33:59want uh there sometimes that's very quick strike like freed last year and sometimes that's waiting it
00:34:05out for man go make your market we want you like let me you go make your market when you get it or
00:34:13don't get it come back to us and we'll we'll do what we can to make it happen and I I think they really
00:34:18like this player so um as as far as Harper you know again right if you were really the general manager
00:34:26owner of the team Harper just had like his worst season uh and he's 33 and he's a violent player in
00:34:37the way he swings in the way he runs and you have to ask seriously am I about to buy the worst years of
00:34:43Bryce Harper's career because I'm in love with the name and I'm miserable that I didn't sign him when he
00:34:48was 26 as opposed to that you see that he's going to be worth every penny of this moving forward and
00:34:57I think that this is a player that is angry about the contract he's currently operating under and
00:35:04therefore if you trade for him are you going to be dealing with hey man you got to redo this contract
00:35:11as ever along the whole way because what would make Harper attractive is I think he's you know
00:35:18I don't have the numbers in front of me I think he's signed for seven more years is that correct
00:35:22I think he's played six at this point was a 13 contract um but it's probably like six times
00:35:3026 ish so let's say 25 so 175 so it's about say seven at 180 he's got six years left uh six he's
00:35:39played seven with them already one two three four five six yep this past year 2025 is his seventh year
00:35:45with the Phillies so so like like let's let's roughly say it's six at 160 again I don't have
00:35:50the numbers in front of me uh 27 million for the next three and then 23 and change the the three after
00:35:58that so it's 25 so it's six at 150 yeah about right uh so is that the is that the same value as like a
00:36:05Bellinger contract you would be signing for him too well it's always interesting you know I always say
00:36:10if Bryce Harper were a free agent this offseason what would he get like would would he would he get
00:36:15more or less than six at 150 if you tell me uh you know at this point maybe you'd overpay but you'd
00:36:22really want to because of the way he played not expose yourself long term so I'd be much more
00:36:27comfortable doing three at 90 or three at 96 or something if that's the case that contract's
00:36:32underwater right and then like like can the Phillies really trade if you have an underwater contract
00:36:38it's one of the things I kept saying where like twin fans I remember went nuts when I pointed out
00:36:42that the match should try to acquire Carlos Correa last offseason because I said the twins would
00:36:47probably want to give him away and they're like oh this is just the New Yorker trying to do well by
00:36:52New York and stuff like that I'm like no I talk to executives all the time his contracts underwater by
00:36:58about 80 million dollars if if they put him on waivers today nobody would pick him up and and just for
00:37:04the contract you're asking them to take a whole contract they think is 80 million dollars underwater
00:37:10right and give you prospects yep so like like how do the Phillies trade Bryce Harper if anybody in the
00:37:17industry even sees it as a neutral contract or even a slightly good contract hey if he was a free agent
00:37:22he'd get 80 200 all right that's not annual value it's no you know what I'm saying is so like how do
00:37:29the Phillies trade the player unless they're like we just want to we have to read like they're having
00:37:36the same discussions maybe you and I are having which is we've had this court group together we
00:37:41haven't won do we have to break it up uh clearly Dombrowski's comments Dombrowski's been around way too
00:37:48long to have said that without having some meaning right behind it I thought I continue to wonder if
00:37:55the meaning is the player is unhappy with his contract and this was a kind of side glance back
00:38:00at you know I could take some shots here too you know uh if you'd like me to do that why don't we both
00:38:07settle down I mean I don't know like I I that's pure speculation but uh would I be a hundred percent
00:38:16shocked if Bryce Harper got traded this offseason no uh but uh I do think it would be a tough one for
00:38:26the Yankees because while there's this feeling probably that you represent with Yankee fans of
00:38:32you're getting Bryce Harper I think the Yankees would worry that they're getting the name but not
00:38:37the game and that all their fans who are doing it are are kind of trying to get a get a do-over for
00:38:44not doing it after 18 right right you're chasing like could you not because you're not going to
00:38:50get that I mean maybe you will him he's a great player I mean we just watched George Springer go
00:38:56from two years of regression to I think he had the third best OPS behind Judge and Otani in the sport
00:39:05this year and of course he's just was great again in the postseason and this postseason still going
00:39:10and had such a big homer so it's like could a great Hall of Fame bound player like Bryce Harper
00:39:17regenerate he could but two years ago there were a lot of people saying you know what the Yankees
00:39:23should do they should go get Mike Trout now and then if they did they would have gotten a complete
00:39:31disaster so you you got to be careful at this point it's it's not about the name and the some
00:39:39lingering animosity and it's about like I still believe that guy has well above average production
00:39:46for the next five six years to justify because you probably have to give something up for him
00:39:51right I that's where I come from in my thought process is the violent swing the short porch and
00:39:56right field how it would play there and then also what you mentioned earlier in this episode about the
00:40:02grittiness toughness uh no fucks given attitude that's what Bryce Harper gives in my opinion and
00:40:10I wonder if that's a welcome thing for this clubhouse because I know Cody Bellinger is a different cat I
00:40:16know he's very cool calm and collected I know he's also probably the lead he's somewhat of a leader in
00:40:21that clubhouse and and fearless fearless 100 and I think Harper's fearless too and I yeah there's no
00:40:28doubt about it it's just the question of and by the I'm saying this mind you if if they get priced
00:40:34out for Bellinger that's where I wonder what the pivot would be here if the if the Yankees can't get
00:40:39Cody Bellinger but at the end of the day Bellinger is just money and I don't know that it will be that
00:40:45much more money or years with a player they know is probably lower maintenance in every way as they
00:40:53know fits with their group plays the two positions they again have to worry about to some degree going
00:40:59into this offseason so I I would just this as soon sign Bellinger uh you know because I would ask this
00:41:10question as an overall baseball player who do you think will bring more value over the next five
00:41:16years Cody Bellinger or Bryce Harper I don't think it's a no-brainer I don't think so either yeah
00:41:21you could convince me it's Bryce Harper but I've seen Cody Bellinger succeed with the Yankees now
00:41:26and he does something that has extra value for them he plays center field for at least a short period
00:41:33of time here until the Yankees either find out Spencer Jones can play in the major leagues and play
00:41:39center field and or the whole sport gets a lot more center fielders of quality than exist and are
00:41:45roaming the major leagues right now it is a really poor position as the other New York team which kept
00:41:53trying through the you know Tyrone Taylors and uh Jeff McNeils and well speaking of theories and Cedric
00:42:03Mullins found out it's hard to fix that position which again will the price for Bellinger some well
00:42:10yeah and so let's say they don't get Bellinger would you could you see them going to get bring
00:42:15back their old pal Harrison Bader you know a guy that can play center field right-handed bat obviously
00:42:21would would be different than than having Bellinger on the left side could that be a potential possibility
00:42:25I guess everything's in play he plays but but I think the teams that had Harrison this year would
00:42:33say he's taken enough uh uh body blows that he is now probably more a corner outfielder than I mean
00:42:42again he could go to center field but the last thing we saw him do he had a very good year but the last
00:42:49thing we saw him do is play above his head with Philadelphia so we now like that is not who he is
00:42:55you've got to uh think about who he is actually going to be but with the dearth of right-handed
00:43:02bats with the dearth of outfielders and the dearth of guys who could at least go be competent in center
00:43:08field does Harrison Bader get a multi-year contract I think he does would you give Harrison Bader a
00:43:14multi-year contract probably not at this point yeah I mean this is this is the problem is hitting has
00:43:19never been harder and there's never been fewer guys you can feel certain about who can do it and
00:43:26as the hot stove is about 10 days away from really really getting going it's one of the reasons like
00:43:33I think Kyle Schwarber is going to get like four years at 150 million or more like he can really hit
00:43:39I think Bellinger is going to do well I think Tucker is going to do well I think Bader is going to do
00:43:43better than people think I think somebody is going to hide their eyes about where to put him on the
00:43:49field and give Bo Bichette a pretty good contract because he could really hit you know and it's
00:43:54hard to in this era really hit um but it's just it's yeah it's interesting it's fascinating if you
00:44:03want to because it's the same same question you ask yourself about um you know playing above your
00:44:08head in Trent Grisham and you know he's most likely you know I don't know do the Yankees extend
00:44:13him the qualifying offer are they gonna let him walk I think it's an interesting one I bet my if you
00:44:17asked me today what I think and I have no inside knowledge I mean again my accumulate uh you know
00:44:22fans out there will not take the I have no inside information but uh I would think the Yankees
00:44:31wouldn't risk it I think the Yankees would be worried he accepted which I don't think is the
00:44:36worst outcome in the world if Bellinger doesn't come back but it is if Bellinger does for their ability
00:44:43within whatever budget house Steinberger gives to maneuver in other places like and so I I would
00:44:50guess not uh and that would that just gives Bellinger even more weaponry to ask for more right
00:44:57it's like who's playing center if I'm not again like can I have that name please uh and so yeah I think
00:45:05I I think the Yankees have a tricky off season and yet if they pull Bellinger down it feels like
00:45:14they could line up a team that's pretty good as is and I would suspect it's not as is they're gonna
00:45:21go out and get a reliever or two I think they'll try to find a righty bat they like probably a catcher
00:45:27who hits righty I think their experiment of going all lefty behind the plate was a mistake
00:45:31uh and I think uh that the uh you know uh a right hand hitter who could catch and play first base
00:45:39as kind of a mirror to Ben Rice would be really useful again go try to find that fella it's not
00:45:45it's not a great uh group to do it with but and I I think they have to find a starting pitcher who
00:45:52protects them a little because part of the news out of the press conference that was gonna be my next
00:45:57question about the look Joel we're like an old married couple I know where you're going yeah
00:46:01you know where I'm going look I was gonna be Volpe and it was gonna be the starting pitching so
00:46:05I'll start with the starting pitches you just brought it up uh the Rodon injury news obviously
00:46:09was whoa okay he's gonna be out for a little bit here to start the year maybe a month hopefully not
00:46:15more than that you don't know when you're gonna get Cole back right until he's fully ready to go
00:46:19so that's two giant question marks to start right to start the year next year
00:46:24and it's the second half at the earliest uh Hill is a guy who has not really stayed healthy and did
00:46:30not finish the season great anyway Schlittler's young Warren's young Fried had his the heaviest
00:46:36workload of his career like there is I would be and and and the Yankees are closer to getting
00:46:44internal help well and look they got internal help the last two years uh Hill won the rookie of the
00:46:49year in 2024 Schlittler was a total revelation and Warren was a workhorse
00:46:54this year so they've gotten some real gifts from internally they probably can't believe that
00:47:00April May is times they could reach down for uh Carlos LaGrange or Elma Cruz Rodriguez or Ben Hess or
00:47:09you know that kind of uh uh pitcher who I think they like and believe will help them at some point
00:47:16next year but does not feel like a April 1st situation so I do think they've got to
00:47:23go get somebody and I know part of the worry Aaron Boone expressed that hey when Rodon and Cole come
00:47:33back they got to be part of the rotation and if we've signed somebody who doesn't have options and
00:47:38has guaranteed money and we've made a promise who's going to start who's not starting I mean I guess the
00:47:44answer is you could always send Warren and Schlittler to the minors but if Schlittler is pitching like he did
00:47:49this year that's not something you're really going to want to do so like to me can they find and again
00:47:55we know the universe of these things can they find a guy who is either Ryan Yarborough or like that
00:48:02who you feel can give you 10 to 12 starts keep you in the game or better and then flex into your bullpen
00:48:10when and if that becomes necessary and by the way this is the dangerous game Shane Bieber had Tommy
00:48:22John surgery in April of 24 and did not pitch in games until August of 25 if Garrett Cole follows a
00:48:32similar similar path he'll be pitching in July like these are not now I I would always believe in
00:48:40Garrett Cole seriousness but I would believe it in Bieber also he's a total serious player a former
00:48:44Cy Young winner but like you know I know Cole's doing the work it's just that these things have
00:48:49scripts of their own they're not just going to follow with the time yeah and like sometimes the
00:48:55time is 14 months and sometimes it's 18 months and so I think the Yankees have to over stack on
00:49:02starting pitching with the belief you know what we'll probably never have five healthy at the same time
00:49:08anyway and we'll never have to make this decision and therefore I would try to get somebody I like
00:49:15you know is that a reclamation project is it somebody who's been pitching in say Korea or
00:49:21something went over there and they've been scouting him and it's like hey Bob Smith who used to not be
00:49:26much over here he's kind of the new Eric Fetty he learned to pitch over there we think he could come
00:49:31here and at least give us a year of surprises or something so I think I think uh I think they've
00:49:37got to address it yeah I mean look Carlos Carrasco and Marcus Stroman were pitching for the Yankees
00:49:43at the start of the year this year so you never know what's going to happen with the starting rotation
00:49:47especially now with the questions of Cole and Rodon uh and the rest of the rotation it it certainly
00:49:54seems like they need to address that uh final thing before we get to to Joel's notebook uh Anthony
00:49:59Volpe the shoulder surgery went down type typical timeline I believe is like three to four month
00:50:04range before he could start actually like really getting into baseball activities so look Joel do you
00:50:11get a sense that this will still be Anthony Volpe's job at this when he's ready to go he'll be in the
00:50:17major league lineup every single day starting at shortstop when he's healthy next year
00:50:20yeah uh I do because of the reality of what's around so let's start from the outside uh Bo Bichette
00:50:32is the best free agent shortstop available I can't see the Yankees spending money there I certainly can't
00:50:38see them spending money on a guy who the second you get him you're going to be going why isn't he
00:50:42playing second or third he's not a good defensive shortstop so that's one Hasan Kim is a guy
00:50:50again if you'd like to sit with me one day when I'm doing phone calls and hear the variety of
00:50:56opinion if Hasan Kim is a full-time major league shortstop both in skill and the physicality to
00:51:02last the season you'll hear everything from uh-huh to are you crazy uh so like those are the two who
00:51:10are out there uh who you could go to the outside Jose Caballero is a guy who I think over time would
00:51:17probably show that he's best used in the way he's been used by Tampa and last year with New York
00:51:25which was yeah if you have an injury let's throw him into that position for two or three weeks
00:51:30but he might not be a starting player full-time at one position let's use his skills to the best of it
00:51:38and then I'll add the last thing which is frustrates Yankee fans I know but I return to there is simply
00:51:48not a lot of bats in the sport and so the Yankees are going to have to continue to work on Jason
00:51:55Dominguez Austin Wells Anthony Volpe because average in this day and age has so much value because it's so
00:52:05hard to get to average like it's just the the hitting has never been more problematic I we're up to
00:52:1297 mile per hour average fastball in the postseason 97 97 I mean it wasn't 92 that long ago the movement
00:52:21has never been better the game plans for each individual player has never been better so the
00:52:27ability to make Anthony Volpe 10 better or Austin Wells 10 better you know like like
00:52:34again we see it every day and there was without naming a name I I don't I have not listened to
00:52:44sports talk radio in 15 years uh I don't listen to uh scream shows on the thing but I a friend of
00:52:54mine was recently I'm not going to say the show so there could be no breadcrumbs here my friend of
00:52:59mine was recently on a show and asked me can you watch and so I did and like one of the things one
00:53:05of the screaming geniuses said was you know the Yankees have to be more like the Blue Jays they got
00:53:11to put the ball in play ignoring again the fact that the Blue Jays were winning games where they were
00:53:15hitting homers and not winning games where they got plenty of hits but didn't hit homers uh and he used
00:53:21Andres Jimenez as the example how come the Yankees don't have a guy like Andres Jimenez and I was
00:53:26like well you have to work hard to find somebody who's a much worse offensive player than Anthony
00:53:30Volpe but you just found a man I know he just hit two homers in front of you for the first two games
00:53:36you paid attention to but this guy had a 66 OPS plus this year Anthony Volpe is Ted freaking Williams
00:53:43compared to a 66 OPS plus so again you know that's the guy who's playing shortstop for the American
00:53:49League champions right now because Bichette is hurt right and there is an offensive player in Volpe
00:53:57that can hit 245 with 15 homers and 25 stolen bases and in this day and age if he's doing
00:54:07the stuff where he plays well on defense it's really valuable because they're just not 75 players
00:54:17position players in the sport who are good every year there's not 50 and so the ability to grow them
00:54:24from your system and turn them into average average can Anthony Volpe be average can Austin Wells be
00:54:32average can Jason Dominguez be average what if I nudge them a little above that to above average I
00:54:38mean Austin Wells I think hit 23 homers this year uh Dominguez stole 25 bases uh Volpe did hit 19
00:54:47homers and steal 20 ish bases like there are elements that you're looking for to build around
00:54:54to see if you could get to average or better which in this day and age has unbelievable value and you
00:55:01could only acquire what's realistic and available if this is a Corey Seager offseason free agent wise
00:55:09I'm like hey man there is no such like I would move on from Volpe and if you told me that there
00:55:17was a good trade out there for a shortstop I would move on from Volpe but the shortstops in the world
00:55:24series are a gold glove right fielder Mookie Betts and a guy with a 66 OPS plus Andres Jimenez
00:55:32all I ask Yankee fans is be realistic about like what kind of shortstop do you need to get there
00:55:40and can Anthony Volpe be that there's certainly more doubt about that than ever before and if there
00:55:48was a way to move on smartly I would recommend moving on I don't have that magic bullet to move
00:55:58on comfortably and without that the Yankees job is to make Anthony Volpe better less streaky less
00:56:09than the streaks when he has them it's it's a negative it's not just that he had a bad week
00:56:15it's he did nothing for a week nothing and so can they get that player at this point I think it's one
00:56:23out of four Ryan like a year ago I might have said it's 35 percent 40 percent the year before that I
00:56:29might have said it was 60 percent like with each passing year you lose some faith that they're going
00:56:35to get that player but until a better option comes along is that George Lombard by the end of next year
00:56:41or 2026 is it somebody who we're not seeing now becoming available in the trade market or in free
00:56:47agency who's a real answer you know maybe again from a foreign league until then they have to try
00:56:54to make this player better well said Joel uh and again I think there's ways to work around Volpe uh
00:57:02don't put him six in the lineup anymore just keep him down to this bottom three he the fact that you
00:57:07had said to me and I still shocks me this day he had the second most played appearances with runners
00:57:11in scoring position for the Yankees was a massive issue in terms of getting more production out of this
00:57:17team and I think what you said is so key if he becomes average in baseball just an average
00:57:22offensive player this lineup will be that much better because of what you have surrounding here
00:57:27right Ryan look I think we have relatively the people who follow us I think are not
00:57:34fly-by-night fans they're not casual fans they're real hardcore Yankee fans and they they kind of like
00:57:42care about the game they they know things I encourage you go to fan graphs go to baseball
00:57:49reference go look at how many players produce say two and a half war which is a slightly above average
00:57:56player for the three years in a row it's not a list of a hundred it will struggle to get to 40
00:58:06and so that's like barely won a team if it was 60 it's to a team so the ability to even two is average
00:58:15if I get two and I'm getting eight to ten a year from judge and I bring back Bellinger and I'm getting
00:58:21five and again I would move on from jazz chisholm but jazz chisholm is a four or five war player like
00:58:29like you see how you begin to accumulate where average around that is so valuable because most
00:58:38players are not average year after year average in the in the major leagues year after year not just
00:58:45in a singular year is freaking incredible you're a freak if you're average every year or better
00:58:52it's so hard to play in the major leagues it's harder to be good it's impossible almost to be good
00:58:58every year it's only a handful of players who can do it can you be average every average in the
00:59:03major leagues year after year after year is above average for the consistency of it look joe you you
00:59:11bring up really good points about how hard it is to be average in baseball uh and it's something we
00:59:16can pay attention to with Volpe is it can he make those incremental improvements this year to really
00:59:21make an impact for this yankees lineup and and be a very good defensive shortstop that we've seen him be
00:59:26in previous years uh it's certainly something to pay attention to especially the start of spring
00:59:31training and and how they manage his workload and how he works his way back into the starting lineup
00:59:36finally let's go to joel's notebook look this is a awesome thing even though i hate the blue jays and
00:59:43i hate seeing him in the world series i actually love this for donny baseball don mattingly getting to
00:59:48go to the world series even though he's part of the coaching staff uh can you just share your time
00:59:53covering donny baseball and what this really means for something like him to actually be in the world
00:59:58series and and being a part of a team like this yeah ryan you've gotten to know me over these last
01:00:04couple of years you know i'm generally uh a skeptic and jaded about stuff uh i've been around a long time
01:00:10had a lot of people bullshit and lie to me about things and i kind of uh don't lead with my chin i lead
01:00:16with my hands up to make sure i don't get pop uh and so like i generally just don't care about
01:00:23anything like you know whatever happens happens like i gotta cover it you know we had a deadline
01:00:29at 11 p.m last night trust me in the middle of the seventh inning i had a column 90 percent done that
01:00:36the mariners were going to the world series it was beautiful work you'll never see you know french
01:00:41kiss it off and i'm scrambling to write the blue jays go you know because i'm i'm at the mercy of
01:00:46what happens so i try not to care what's going to happen because i have to react to it in real time
01:00:52having said that i'm happy for don mattingly um i think uh who i never saw at the game yesterday but
01:01:00i saw after game six with his young son who was so nice he came up he introduced me he introduced me
01:01:06his mr sherman uh to his young son uh and we chatted for a little bit and after the game last
01:01:13night in their clubhouse while all the champagne was flowing i asked john schneider how do you feel
01:01:19about the don mattingly thing and he went through a lot but it does point out unless you're of a certain
01:01:27age john schneider said when i grew up i had the hitman poster on my wall that guy was my idol the guy
01:01:35who's on my coaching staff was my idol and he goes so the eight-year-old me is jumping up and down on
01:01:42my bed tonight and it gave me chills when he said it i i forced it into my column i thought it was such
01:01:48a good quote uh about it uh mattingly's been involved in major league professional baseball for over 40
01:01:56years he has never been to the world series player coach manager he is going uh the closest he ever got
01:02:06to a player was coincidentally against the mariners was coincidentally a series where his team took a
01:02:13two-nothing lead as the mariners took a two-nothing lead in this series those mariners charged back
01:02:18famously the edgar martinez hit which ultimately scores ken gravey jr with the the winning run
01:02:24um my strongest on-field memory of mattingly is that series so i my my seven years covering the
01:02:33yankees 90 uh 90 um 89 to 95 were donnie's last seven years as a major leaguer so i saw him go
01:02:4189 was his last full really strong year and even by then it was like a 20 homer 100 rbi season he hit
01:02:48300 because he could but his back was really starting to go you could see it and he was never
01:02:53that great player again for the last six seasons he was hurt a lot he was a good player he was such a
01:02:58great fielder and you talk about tough-minded players zero excuse players but also players
01:03:05like there was no internet if there was you would know him at a different level you could not be bigger
01:03:11in new york than don mattingly i mean he was beloved and he was huge and i don't think i've ever
01:03:17covered a player of greatness who handled greatness as well as don mattingly did he was
01:03:22gracious he was humble he was available before and after every game if you were a reporter he was
01:03:29not cliche filled he was great to cover great to cover and a real lesson to those around him
01:03:38in every way about how to treat others who are in and around the profession and how to play
01:03:44and i think i might have told the story before but because it's the postseason and it did put the
01:03:52yankees up two games to none in the only time he ever made the playoffs as the yankees he was in that
01:03:56horrible middle period between the reggie thurman billy yankees and the jeter yankees he was there from
01:04:0482 to 95 uh the yankees in that period i know people are like george steinbrenner's a saint the
01:04:09yankees always made the playoffs over george steinbren they did not from 82 to 94 they did
01:04:15they did not uh in 94 they had the best record in the american league there was a strike there was
01:04:20no world series 95 they came back they made an incredible rally uh mattingly played terrific down
01:04:27the stretch to help get them in and in after they won game one in game two of uh that division series
01:04:35against the mariners at the old yankee stadium which i loved um john hayman who was then working
01:04:41for news day and i sat side by side in the press box news day and the post were assigned seats next
01:04:48to each other and in the sixth inning of that game in a 2-2 game after reuben sierra had homered to tie
01:04:55the game mattingly who the crowd is pulling for like he is pick your new whatever you think aaron judge
01:05:05is like the crowd is so on this guy and manly goes deep the ball feels like like a stephen curry
01:05:19three-pointer it is up there and it just looks beautiful in the air where you're like i know
01:05:23where that's going it's going in the net that one's going in the bleachers and in the old stadium which
01:05:29was holding on by like gaffer tape and dreams
01:05:32the the stadium used to move but there wasn't a lot of reason back then to know how much it could
01:05:41move the yankees weren't very good for a long time and they had never they hadn't had a moment like
01:05:46this since 1978 maybe but now 50 000 people are it's freaking new year's and it's on
01:05:56and ryan the press box starts to move but i don't mean a little like it did where it feels people are
01:06:05stomping ha ha ha we're moving i mean the press box is swaying and it's an old stadium
01:06:12and i turned to john and i said we're going down we're going down i said i said there's going to
01:06:20be a terrible way to freaking die like don mattingly hit a homer and i'm going to fucking die because of
01:06:26this you know and of course eventually it all settles somehow uh the core engineers who were ever
01:06:33keeping it together with the gaffer tape and dreams it didn't go down but the memory
01:06:39of how appreciative and adoring the fans were that night for the guy they knew had been odysseus
01:06:49like the guy who had really journeyed without ever getting to this moment and hitting that home run
01:06:58kind of was like a capper on his career uh i think mattingly knew deep down he was not going to play the
01:07:06next year he hadn't announced it yet in some ways he never really announced his retirement he just
01:07:10kind of like faded away which was kind of his thing like not to draw attention to himself
01:07:15and i'll end with this ryan which when the yankees lost that series uh the there was this crush
01:07:28crushing feeling in the clubhouse which always is when a team is eliminated i just saw it again with
01:07:34the yankees i never made it to the mariners last night i know that would have happened i was with
01:07:38the blue jays but like when it when you're when a team is eliminated the the the journey is so long
01:07:46everybody is playing hurt everyone is sold out to the highest levels and i would put the 95 yankee
01:07:54clubhouse for losing clubhouses near the top of pain for the loss because like david cone to 147 pitches
01:08:05in game five it's the most pitches anybody's thrown since then like nobody's gotten close to that since
01:08:11then jack mcdowell was playing with a lump like a triple-sized golf ball in his shoulder he's the guy
01:08:16who came in and relieved that night everyone kind of knew it was probably buck showwalters last game
01:08:21managing like it felt like the end but everyone just felt so bad for mattingly because they thought
01:08:27it might be the end and they all loved and admired him in the clubhouse and there was only one guy who
01:08:33didn't feel that way ryan and it was him there were people bawling i mean david cone was sobbing
01:08:41jack mcdowell buck showwalter like when we left his office turned dropped his head to his desk and began to
01:08:47cry mattingly was enthused to some degree i mean obviously hurt that they didn't win
01:08:54but personally he would tell you as he's told me over the years i had to know if i could handle it or
01:09:01not i had to know when the moment came and i think he hit over 400 in that series he was great in that
01:09:09series and he was just i just had to get here and know dude i want to win the world series you bet
01:09:15but i had to get here and then i had to know about myself that i could do it
01:09:19and in one of the saddest most devastated clubhouses i was ever in he was the single guy
01:09:26who was not like that wow and look that's uh it speaks more to the character of don mattingly and
01:09:34the person he is and the professional is not mattingly along like i see him a couple times a year
01:09:41when dodgers or you know uh working for the blue jays and that's always a good thing yeah like
01:09:48again nice gracious no cliches insightful
01:09:53and now he's going to get to have this moment uh not as a player not as a manager but i bet you
01:10:05for what you said it's probably easy for yankee fans to hate the dodgers anyway because the dodgers
01:10:11beat them and hard for them to like say toronto because it's in their division i would suspect that
01:10:17yankee fans will root for toronto because they'd like to see the dodgers i wonder if like like not
01:10:24repeat as champions that the yankees keep the yankees last but i think there's a fans of a certain age
01:10:30that one done mattingly to get a ring that'd be nice to see for him uh i know i'd be rooting for
01:10:36it uh and i appreciate you joel for coming on here and always giving us your insight giving us
01:10:42everything you have uh i know it's a lot this time of year we don't we don't undersell it we don't
01:10:48undervalue it uh look the fans came out in droves last week i'm sure they're gonna be out again this
01:10:53week uh let's take uh we'll take a break here after this episode let you settle in for the world
01:10:58series and then we'll catch up with you i think during the hot stove season and we'll get into
01:11:02this even further but listen man that was a lot and we appreciate all the time you give us joel
01:11:07all the best ryan thanks
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